Bible Discussion: Is The BIBLE An Idol?

Is The BIBLE An Idol?
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Caiaphas
2003-07-29 08:48:49 EST
Are Christians and Jews making the BIBLE our modern-day Idol? Tradition has
deemed that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. Who deemed this? Wasn't the
Bible made into a book just a few hundred years ago? Instead of perceiving the
BIBLE, a book of words, Holy -- shouldn't the truly Holy part be the
*revelation* one takes from reading and studying the Bible?

Now, we say only God is perfect - no human can be considered perfect. Moses was
human and I am sure he too was not perfect. Jesus in the Gospels corrected
Moses commands on "Eye for Eye", Divorce, Adultury, Sabbath, and other things.
So, can we consider that some of what Moses said God said is in error? Or, are
we making Moses into a god?

If we can question the inerrancy of Moses, why not question Samuel when he told
Saul that God commands you to kill all the Amalek including women, children, and
infants? We can question this as it does not appear to be in the character of
God to command such things. Instead, I think this account was written this way
to justify blood-thirsty deeds done by the ancient Hebrews to their neighbors.

Jesus said of John the Baptist: "there has not risen anyone greater than John
the Baptist". Isn't this Christ's way of saying that something greater is about
to transpire? That there are problems with how we perceive and worship God?

This is my perception of the Bible. It is a book divided into 2 major
covenants - Old Covenant and the New Covenant. The New Covenant replaced the
Old when Christ died and rose again and when the Temple was destroyed in 70AD.
The Old Testament is intermixed with true revelations from God and mans
perception of Gods Will and we are to study the Old to separate the facts from
fictions. The New Testament is a) Teachings of Christ - the Gospels, a true
description of Gods Will because Jesus was God incarnated in human form, and b)
mans perceptions of Christ and his Teachings. So, the superior description of
Gods Will is contained in the Teachings of Christ. Any apparent disparity
between the Old Testament and the Teachings of Christ should be perceived as
errors in the Old Testament.

We Christians have got to avoid falling into the same trap that the Pharisees
and Teachers of the Law fell into during the time of Christ. Christ felt that
they were putting mans traditions and laws above Gods laws and misinterpreting
the Scriptures. We need to make sure that we do not make the Bible our idol nor
should we fail to understand the true Will of God.




Adario
2003-07-29 10:27:13 EST

"Caiaphas" <Caiaphas66@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:_2uVa.898$V_4.37691@eagle.america.net...
> Are Christians and Jews making the BIBLE our modern-day Idol? Tradition
has
> deemed that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. Who deemed this?
Wasn't the
> Bible made into a book just a few hundred years ago?

A collection of books written between 2,600-2,100 B.C., about. Some in part
copied from non-Jewish scriptures, adapted to Jewish beliefs and culture.

Instead of perceiving the
> BIBLE, a book of words, Holy -- shouldn't the truly Holy part be the
> *revelation* one takes from reading and studying the Bible?
>
> Now, we say only God is perfect - no human can be considered perfect.
Moses was
> human and I am sure he too was not perfect. Jesus in the Gospels
corrected
> Moses commands on "Eye for Eye", Divorce, Adultury, Sabbath, and other
things.
> So, can we consider that some of what Moses said God said is in error?
Or, are
> we making Moses into a god?

Are you sure the Moses of the Bible was a human being? How about Moses being
symbolic like Moses being the Pentateuch?
>
> If we can question the inerrancy of Moses, why not question Samuel when he
told
> Saul that God commands you to kill all the Amalek including women,
children, and
> infants? We can question this as it does not appear to be in the
character of
> God to command such things. Instead, I think this account was written
this way
> to justify blood-thirsty deeds done by the ancient Hebrews to their
neighbors.
>
I don't think so. Depends what Amalek represented. If the name Amalek is a
generic for some Canaanite gods or if Amalek represented the worshippers of
a Canaanite god(s), I don't see why the stories in which the name Amalek is
mentioned would have been written to justify blood-thirsty deeds. It is true
that Jews as well as Christians have justified their wars, murders, and
genocides with biblical texts. When Jews, after the Babylonian Exile, upheld
the Pentateuch, Amalek got getting a beating. That's my interpretation of
Amalek's narrative in Exodus.
It is obvious that OT narrators wrote epics, not historical accounts

> Jesus said of John the Baptist: "there has not risen anyone greater than
John
> the Baptist". Isn't this Christ's way of saying that something greater is
about
> to transpire? That there are problems with how we perceive and worship
God?
>
> This is my perception of the Bible. It is a book divided into 2 major
> covenants - Old Covenant and the New Covenant. The New Covenant replaced
the
> Old when Christ died and rose again and when the Temple was destroyed in
70AD.
The authors of the New Testament saw it as a continuity of the OT, a New
Covenant.
> The Old Testament is intermixed with true revelations from God and mans
> perception of Gods Will and we are to study the Old to separate the facts
from
> fictions. The New Testament is a) Teachings of Christ - the Gospels, a
true
> description of Gods Will because Jesus was God incarnated in human form,
and b)
> mans perceptions of Christ and his Teachings.

b) the revelation of Christ's perceptions is more like it.

> So, the superior description of
> Gods Will is contained in the Teachings of Christ. Any apparent disparity
> between the Old Testament and the Teachings of Christ should be perceived
as
> errors in the Old Testament.
>
Understood as man's perceptions. A Covenant with a Law subject to change.
Deu 18:15 The LORD your God will raise up to you a prophet from the midst of
you, of your brothers, like me; to him you shall listen;

> We Christians have got to avoid falling into the same trap that the
Pharisees
> and Teachers of the Law fell into during the time of Christ. Christ felt
that
> they were putting mans traditions and laws above Gods laws and
misinterpreting
> the Scriptures. We need to make sure that we do not make the Bible our
idol nor
> should we fail to understand the true Will of God.

Agree. The OT is not a history book and was not written by God but by
inspired human beings having their perception of God and perception of God's
will.
>
>
>



Thore Schmechtig
2003-07-29 10:28:07 EST
Hi Caiaphas,

> Are Christians and Jews making the BIBLE our modern-day Idol? [...]
> Instead of perceiving the
> BIBLE, a book of words, Holy -- shouldn't the truly Holy part be the
> *revelation* one takes from reading and studying the Bible? [...]
> We need to make sure that we do not make the Bible our idol nor
> should we fail to understand the true Will of God.

Wise words! Maybe at least some of the bible-thumpers here will think
about your questions... though I doubt it :(


--
Bye

Tocis (starspawn@carcosa.de)

Jim
2003-07-29 12:16:32 EST
Since when do we worship the Bible?

"Caiaphas" <Caiaphas66@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:_2uVa.898$V_4.37691@eagle.america.net...
> Are Christians and Jews making the BIBLE our modern-day Idol? Tradition
has
> deemed that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. Who deemed this?
Wasn't the
> Bible made into a book just a few hundred years ago? Instead of
perceiving the
> BIBLE, a book of words, Holy -- shouldn't the truly Holy part be the
> *revelation* one takes from reading and studying the Bible?
>
> Now, we say only God is perfect - no human can be considered perfect.
Moses was
> human and I am sure he too was not perfect. Jesus in the Gospels
corrected
> Moses commands on "Eye for Eye", Divorce, Adultury, Sabbath, and other
things.
> So, can we consider that some of what Moses said God said is in error?
Or, are
> we making Moses into a god?
>
> If we can question the inerrancy of Moses, why not question Samuel when he
told
> Saul that God commands you to kill all the Amalek including women,
children, and
> infants? We can question this as it does not appear to be in the
character of
> God to command such things. Instead, I think this account was written
this way
> to justify blood-thirsty deeds done by the ancient Hebrews to their
neighbors.
>
> Jesus said of John the Baptist: "there has not risen anyone greater than
John
> the Baptist". Isn't this Christ's way of saying that something greater is
about
> to transpire? That there are problems with how we perceive and worship
God?
>
> This is my perception of the Bible. It is a book divided into 2 major
> covenants - Old Covenant and the New Covenant. The New Covenant replaced
the
> Old when Christ died and rose again and when the Temple was destroyed in
70AD.
> The Old Testament is intermixed with true revelations from God and mans
> perception of Gods Will and we are to study the Old to separate the facts
from
> fictions. The New Testament is a) Teachings of Christ - the Gospels, a
true
> description of Gods Will because Jesus was God incarnated in human form,
and b)
> mans perceptions of Christ and his Teachings. So, the superior
description of
> Gods Will is contained in the Teachings of Christ. Any apparent disparity
> between the Old Testament and the Teachings of Christ should be perceived
as
> errors in the Old Testament.
>
> We Christians have got to avoid falling into the same trap that the
Pharisees
> and Teachers of the Law fell into during the time of Christ. Christ felt
that
> they were putting mans traditions and laws above Gods laws and
misinterpreting
> the Scriptures. We need to make sure that we do not make the Bible our
idol nor
> should we fail to understand the true Will of God.
>
>
>



Thore Schmechtig
2003-07-29 17:19:47 EST
> Since when do we worship the Bible?

You know, when people counter every statement, every problem, every
(insert term of your choice here), with a more or less fitting bible
quote, observers get at least the impression that these people
_worship_ the bible.
I do not refer to your person right now, but in general to people in
these newsgroups who behave like christianity was all about quoting the
correct bible verse...

Libertarius
2003-07-29 17:39:26 EST
Thore Schmechtig wrote:
>
> > Since when do we worship the Bible?
>
> You know, when people counter every statement, every problem, every
> (insert term of your choice here), with a more or less fitting bible
> quote, observers get at least the impression that these people
> _worship_ the bible.
> I do not refer to your person right now, but in general to people in
> these newsgroups who behave like christianity was all about quoting the
> correct bible verse...

===>Would a true biblicist "desecrate"
even his copy of the Bible?

Mark
2003-07-29 20:15:11 EST

Caiaphas <Caiaphas66@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:_2uVa.898$V_4.37691@eagle.america.net...
> Are Christians and Jews making the BIBLE our modern-day Idol? Tradition
has
> deemed that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. Who deemed this?

Either God did or He didn't, get over it.

> Wasn't the
> Bible made into a book just a few hundred years ago?

You mean you don't know??? Who are you to sit in judgement on the bible
when you don't
even know when it was written and cannonized.


Mark





M. Clark
2003-07-30 11:51:12 EST
Thore Schmechtig <starspawn@carcosa.de> wrote:

> > Since when do we worship the Bible?
>
> You know, when people counter every statement, every problem, every
> (insert term of your choice here), with a more or less fitting bible
> quote, observers get at least the impression that these people
> _worship_ the bible.
> I do not refer to your person right now, but in general to people in
> these newsgroups who behave like christianity was all about quoting the
> correct bible verse...

Consider that Jesus quoted the Scriptures quite often.

M. Clark

Zayton
2003-07-31 02:36:04 EST

"Adario" <Uniacke@Cy-cit-Rot.com> wrote in message
news:2vvVa.2221$mv6.501267@news20.bellglobal.com...
>
> "Caiaphas" <Caiaphas66@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:_2uVa.898$V_4.37691@eagle.america.net...
> > Are Christians and Jews making the BIBLE our modern-day Idol? Tradition
> has
> > deemed that the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. Who deemed this?
> Wasn't the
> > Bible made into a book just a few hundred years ago?
>
> A collection of books written between 2,600-2,100 B.C., about. Some in
part
> copied from non-Jewish scriptures, adapted to Jewish beliefs and culture.
>
> Instead of perceiving the
> > BIBLE, a book of words, Holy -- shouldn't the truly Holy part be the
> > *revelation* one takes from reading and studying the Bible?
> >
> > Now, we say only God is perfect - no human can be considered perfect.
> Moses was
> > human and I am sure he too was not perfect. Jesus in the Gospels
> corrected
> > Moses commands on "Eye for Eye", Divorce, Adultury, Sabbath, and other
> things.
> > So, can we consider that some of what Moses said God said is in error?
> Or, are
> > we making Moses into a god?
>
> Are you sure the Moses of the Bible was a human being? How about Moses
being
> symbolic like Moses being the Pentateuch?
> >
> > If we can question the inerrancy of Moses, why not question Samuel when
he
> told
> > Saul that God commands you to kill all the Amalek including women,
> children, and
> > infants? We can question this as it does not appear to be in the
> character of
> > God to command such things. Instead, I think this account was written
> this way
> > to justify blood-thirsty deeds done by the ancient Hebrews to their
> neighbors.
> >
> I don't think so. Depends what Amalek represented. If the name Amalek is a
> generic for some Canaanite gods or if Amalek represented the worshippers
of
> a Canaanite god(s), I don't see why the stories in which the name Amalek
is
> mentioned would have been written to justify blood-thirsty deeds. It is
true
> that Jews as well as Christians have justified their wars, murders, and
> genocides with biblical texts. When Jews, after the Babylonian Exile,
upheld
> the Pentateuch, Amalek got getting a beating. That's my interpretation of
> Amalek's narrative in Exodus.
> It is obvious that OT narrators wrote epics, not historical accounts
>
> > Jesus said of John the Baptist: "there has not risen anyone greater
than
> John
> > the Baptist". Isn't this Christ's way of saying that something greater
is
> about
> > to transpire? That there are problems with how we perceive and worship
> God?
> >
> > This is my perception of the Bible. It is a book divided into 2 major
> > covenants - Old Covenant and the New Covenant. The New Covenant
replaced
> the
> > Old when Christ died and rose again and when the Temple was destroyed in
> 70AD.
> The authors of the New Testament saw it as a continuity of the OT, a New
> Covenant.
> > The Old Testament is intermixed with true revelations from God and mans
> > perception of Gods Will and we are to study the Old to separate the
facts
> from
> > fictions. The New Testament is a) Teachings of Christ - the Gospels, a
> true
> > description of Gods Will because Jesus was God incarnated in human form,
> and b)
> > mans perceptions of Christ and his Teachings.
>
> b) the revelation of Christ's perceptions is more like it.
>
> > So, the superior description of
> > Gods Will is contained in the Teachings of Christ. Any apparent
disparity
> > between the Old Testament and the Teachings of Christ should be
perceived
> as
> > errors in the Old Testament.
> >
> Understood as man's perceptions. A Covenant with a Law subject to change.
> Deu 18:15 The LORD your God will raise up to you a prophet from the midst
of
> you, of your brothers, like me; to him you shall listen;
>
> > We Christians have got to avoid falling into the same trap that the
> Pharisees
> > and Teachers of the Law fell into during the time of Christ. Christ
felt
> that
> > they were putting mans traditions and laws above Gods laws and
> misinterpreting
> > the Scriptures. We need to make sure that we do not make the Bible our
> idol nor
> > should we fail to understand the true Will of God.
>
> Agree. The OT is not a history book and was not written by God but by
> inspired human beings having their perception of God and perception of
God's
> will.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Isn't the same true of the New Testament?




Zayton
2003-07-31 02:39:16 EST

"M. Clark" <idontreply@toemail.com> wrote in message
news:1fyvzat.1mphv6kuxlw1aN%idontreply@toemail.com...
> Thore Schmechtig <starspawn@carcosa.de> wrote:
>
> > > Since when do we worship the Bible?
> >
> > You know, when people counter every statement, every problem, every
> > (insert term of your choice here), with a more or less fitting bible
> > quote, observers get at least the impression that these people
> > _worship_ the bible.
> > I do not refer to your person right now, but in general to people in
> > these newsgroups who behave like christianity was all about quoting the
> > correct bible verse...
>
> Consider that Jesus quoted the Scriptures quite often.

Quoted or paraphrased..
And sometimes he followed the quote of paraphrase with,"but I say unto you".
>
> M. Clark



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