Bible Discussion: Desensitising Of The Beast Number!

Desensitising Of The Beast Number!
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Martus
2004-05-23 03:54:30 EST
Has Britney gone Jewish???

The New Age movement has been embraced by people of all ages and races
across the globe. Its philosophy is deeply rooted in ancient
traditions, often based on mystical experiences, each within a
different context.

In the last few years, Hollywood stars and music divas have also
joined this band-wagon, with many "soul-searchers" studying various
teachings and taking on different belief systems.

Lately, reports said Britney Spears - undoubtedly one of the hottest
and sexiest pop stars around – followed music veteran Madonna's
footsteps when she had a tattoo of a Jewish mystical symbol etched on
to her body as an act of devotion to Kabalah – the mystical form of
Judaism.

The letters mem, hey and shin, which mean "protection" according to
the Jewish Kabalah were tattooed to the back part of the 22-year-old
star's neck.

For some reason, it turns out, Britney thought the combination of
these letters means "new beginning" in Hebrew, but it actually means
"protection". Moreover, tattoos are forbidden under Jewish law.
Meanwhile, some reports even suggested Spears wears a red Kabalah
bracelet around her wrist.

An unnamed source, cited recently by the Daily Mirror, was quoted as
saying about the new tattoo that, "She [Britney] had hoped it would
say 'new year' or 'new era'. It seems she's got the words the wrong
way round".

"It is meaningless which will come as a bit of a blow to Britney.

"She's taken to Kabalah pretty seriously and this was a big deal for
her", the source said, and added, "She's going to be gutted when she
finds out."


A doctrine of Jewish mysticism - the Kabalah - appeared in Jewish
mystic circles in Spain and southern France in the 12th century.
According to the Kabalah, God gave a second revelation to Moses
together with the Law.

It explained the secret meaning of the Law. This revelation is said to
have been passed on down the ages by initiates. Kabalistic studies in
the Hebrew scriptures developed in a theosophical mystique and
sometimes in a sort of unintended religious magic. The Kabalah teaches
one to embrace small sparks of daily experiences and the seemingly
insignificant moments of life.

Husbands, as Britney has proven, can be erased quite easily but
tattoos are a bit harder to remove…This is not the first tattoo the
pop diva has had tattooed on to her body. She has been left red-faced
once before when she had a Japanese word scratched on to her hip bone.
That tattoo was supposed to mean "mysterious" but in fact turned out
to mean "strange". Britney was reportedly distressed when she found
out the truth from her best friend, actress Taryn Manning.

However, Britney still continues to decorate herself. She also has a
butterfly script on her toe which she believes says "freedom" and
another on her foot - a flower circling her second toe - that she now
thinks is ugly. She was quoted as saying, "I'd like to get rid of it
because it doesn't look the way I'd hoped it would. It's a blob."
She also has an angel etching on her back and it was reported in
February that she went under the needle in a very personal place…

Meanwhile, recent reports said two other well known stars have also
joined the Kabalah trend, incorporating the mystical experience in
their love life. Hollywood actress Demi Moore, 42, has secretly wed
her lover Ashton Kutcher, 26, according to reports in an American
magazine. "One person currently studying Kabalah says she was informed
during a recent class that Demi and Ashton had wed during an hour-long
ceremony," according to reports from In Touch magazine. The magazine
also added that the couple planned to make their wedding common
knowledge at a friend's party later this year. However, Moore's
spokesman denied these reports and said, "It's not true. They went
down there for Passover holiday." Unconfirmed reports stated the
wedding was conducted according to Kabalah practices.

Back to Britney, it appears she's following Madonna's path, not only
when it comes to music, but also in more personal realms of life.
Britney was introduced to Kabalah by no other than….Madonna, who has
been studying Kabbalah since 1997. In the field of music, Madonna lent
her outstanding voice to Brit's single "Me Against The Music."

Collaborating with one of her all-time greatest musical influences was
truly a dream come true for young Britney.
"The experience was beyond words or description," Britney has said.
The two music talents forged what has become a powerful bond while
rehearsing for their exceptional performance on the MTV Video Music
Awards this fall. "As we were working together, there were moments
when I simply could not believe that I was standing there on stage
next to her. It was never even in the realm of fantasy for me."
The union of Britney and Madonna seems to be extremely magical. Both
singers have also been known to stir a controversy or two during their
successful careers. Madonna, for instance, had Kabalah symbols on her
arm in the video for the James Bond theme song Die Another Day.
Several Judaism scholars were quite angered by the sacred text and
religious objects that appeared in Madonna's video. The video features
Madonna with Hebrew letters tattooed on her arm and tefillin (small
leather cubes, containing biblical verses and worn with straps during
Jewish morning worship), while she's being electrocuted.
Britney is very much inspired by Madonna. She once said, "There is
only one Madonna - and there will always only be one."

"My goal is to have a career that is equally as special, but one that
is completely unique to who I am. I'm honored by all that Madonna
brought to this song. I really love the flow we share - both on the
track and as friends. I think you can feel the chemistry and positive
energy we shared. It's completely natural and relaxed."

Last year, Catholic-born Madonna, said, "I'm not Jewish in the
conventional sense," and added she was attracted to the metaphysical
in Kabalah. "I was looking for something. I mean, I'd begun practicing
yoga and ... I was looking for the answers to life. ... I know there's
more to life than making lots of money and being successful and even
getting married and having a family."

Madonna added, "…Kabalah is a belief system that predates religion and
predates Judaism as an organized religion". She explained that it's a
"belief system. It's incredibly scientific".

The 'Material girl' further said, "Jesus was a Kabalist. Jesus was a
rabbi. And essentially Christianity took a very important concept of
the Kabalah, which is love thy neighbor as thyself, and that became
the foundation of Christianity. Obviously it's been... unfortunately
Christianity has taken certain things out of context. I mean, there's
no point in killing people if they don't become Christians. That's not
- it's got nothing to do with loving your neighbor as yourself".

Britney's musical intensity and her evolution from a teen renegade
into a provocative young woman are obvious. Britney was born on
December 2, 1981 in rural Kentwood, Louisiana. When she was eight
years old, Britney tried out for "MMC" (1989), but was turned down due
to her young age. This directed her to an off-Broadway show,
"Ruthless", for a two-year run as the title character. At age 11, she
again tried for "The New MMC" and this time made it along side many
current stars.


It is an interesting trend that many successful figures as well as
ordinary people have decided to turn to different religions and
mystical teachings in order to find some "pseudo-meaning" in their
lives.

They usually embrace these foreign beliefs without really
understanding the true meaning and essence encompassing them.
Undoubtedly, this phenomenon is yet another indication of the
glitziness, superficiality and shallowness, which characterizes
American society, especially in the modern and post-modern era.
(Albawaba.com)


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The influence that this star has on the young will be evident in the
years to come but what is interesting is this tattooing of these
letters on the back of the neck in relation to Revelation.

"The letters mem, hey and shin, which mean "protection" according to
the Jewish Kabalah were tattooed to the back part of the 22-year-old
star's neck."

666 in Jewish lettering can be written as vav samech(pronounced
sore-meck) and final mem.


Revelation 13:16-18 (NRSV)
16 Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both
free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, 17 so
that no one can buy or sell who does not have the mark, that is, the
name of the beast or the number of its name. 18 This calls for wisdom:
let anyone with understanding calculate the number of the beast, for
it is the number of a person. Its number is six hundred sixty-six.

End
times:
http://www.geocities.com/mart1963/

Martus
2004-05-25 01:22:51 EST
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 10:32:40 -0000
From: "jsearcy2001" <jsearcy2001@yahoo.com>
Subject: Christian Men & Christian Women - The Curse & The Cure

Dear Friends -

If EVERYONE in ChurchDumb believes a heresy to be the truth, the
heresy does not stop being heresy. Luke 6:26 is one Woe that is not
too great of a concern for the GJiGT.

To reverse, pervert, and mock God's order, and authority structure,
is to plainly announce a hatred for God. Rebellion is as the sin of
witchcraft (1 Sam. 15:23). One does not have to look far, to see how
witchcraft reigns in the place of godliness. We are to be TRUE
worshippers of God. We are not to bow to the perversions, and the
idols, and false gods, of this wicked antichrist world.

The TRUTH that women are NOT to teach, preach, or usurp authority
over the man, ATTACKS a central PILLAR of the Antichrist's system of
control. This TRUTH almost always will bring the charge of hate-
criminal. Telling this TRUTH of the Word of God will always be
considered hate in this wicked antichrist world. The GJiGT says
these difficult things because of GREAT LOVE for Women, Men, and
Children of God. The GJiGT loves women enough to tell them the
truth.

"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own
understanding" (Proverbs 3:5)

To "trust in the Lord with all thine heart" is to reject our own
understanding and reasoning in favor of the plain teaching of the
Word of God. The Word of God is not "unreasonable." The Word of God
is absolute pure truth, it is wise, and it is practical, and far-
sighted.

Adam was formed by the Hand of God out of the dust of the earth
before there was a "woman" or "wife". The purpose for all things can
be found in their creation. Adam was first formed, and God breathed
into him the breath of life. Adam was placed into the Garden of Eden
to dress it, and all creatures were brought to him, to give them
names.

A help meet, or a companion, was not found for him. All this
happened BEFORE Eve was created. AFTER all of this, she was created
out of a part of Adam. Woman was made out of one of the ribs of man.
The woman was formed from the man, and for the man.

Woman's purpose is found in her creation. The fulfillment of purpose
of the woman is in the perfection of the man. In all the creation
there was not found a companion acceptable to him. We should see
that the woman was created for the purpose of helping the man. She
was created BEFORE THE FALL to help him. She was made out of him,
and made for him, to be his helper, NOT his ruler.

We should understand that the woman's subjection to the man is
according to the laws of nature and creation. We should understand
this was RIGHT and PERFECT order BEFORE the fall. No consideration
of a PERVERTED order would have occurred if the FALL had not
occurred. The FALL and the curse resulting from the FALL brought the
woman the DESIRE of a PERVERSE order leaving her UNFULFILLED in the
striving after a perverted and cursed order.

We should remember that the eternal wisdom of God is displayed in
the order and structure of the creation.
Rom 1:20 - For the invisible things of him from the creation of the
world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are
made, even his eternal power and Godhead."

Do we REALLY see and understand that God's eternal power and Godhead
are made evident in the structure that He has ordained? If we do
understand that, then we can KNOW that God is defamed, and God's
glory tarnished, and God's character is slandered, when His PERFECT
order is ignored. God suffers indignation when rebellion is allowed
to continue. If we REALLY do want to see God's power and glory
manifest in our life, there is a simple answer. John 14:21 He that
hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and
he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him,
and will manifest myself to him.

Paul, in Rom 1:20, reveals that the invisible things of God are
CLEARLY SEEN, being understood by the perfect order and purpose of
that which was made.

The curse that came in with the FALL, did not change the God
ordained authority structure. The FALL did NOT change the perfect
order that God created before the fall.

The curse involved the woman's DESIRE to rule over her husband. That
PERVERTED desire DID NOT EXIST BEFORE the fall. We CAN CHOOSE to
WILL to do right. The FALLEN sin nature results in a MORAL WEAKNESS,
disabling us from choosing right, unless God is permitted to work IN
us. Yes, it is true, that God limits Himself, in regard to mankind's
freedom to will and to choose.

The result of the FALL is that, without being born again, and the
Holy Spirit of God dwelling in her, the woman CAN NOT do other than
her natural desires. The woman can NOT otherwise help but to desire
consciously, OR UNCONSCCIOUSLY, the cursed pervers desire to bear
rule over men.

Man was created to wisely, and compassionately rule over all of
Creation. Man was to rule wisely, in love, over the woman as his
help meet. Man was to love God, love his wife, and care for the
animals and plants.

We do know and see how man will NOT rule as he is supposed to,
because he is deceived, weak, and totally ruled over, by his own
stupid lusts. From the beginning, the devil has not had to deceive
man out of his crown, for that serpent has successfully decieved the
woman. The devil has very easily manipulated and deceived the woman
into using her own wiles against the object of the devils envy,
enmity, and hatred.

Today, by a corrupt culture, by a failed and confused secular
worldview, man is easily convinced to disobey God, in favor of the
cursed perverted desire of the woman, that she does not even know
she has. Remember Paul, by the Holy Ghost, told us that Adam WAS NOT
DECEIVED. 1 Tim 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being
deceived was in the transgression. Adam willfully disobeyed God in
order to be pleasing to his wife, and to join her in her rebellion.
ADAM WAS NOT DECEIVED. Adam knew what he was doing was wrong.

Adam had NO EXCUSE for obeying his wife in REBELLION against God.
Adam despised God for the sake of his wife. Eve was deceived by the
devil, and Adam who was NOT deceived, DID NOT PROTECT Eve, from the
deception of Satan. Adam was moved according to the working of his
own will. Adam made the WILFUL choice by his SIN OF PASSIVITY, to
join his wife in her rebellion.

It is no different today. In this wicked and perverse generation,
the man continues to willfully sin by PASSIVITY, and choosing to
reject the wisdom and teaching of the Word of God. He chooses to
rebel against the Word of God, by having a woman rule over him. The
true cause of this SIN is his inability to control his own lusts.

MEN WERE CREATED BY GOD TO RULE WITH WISDOM AND LOVE OVER THE
CREATION. The first part of creation which must be ruled by the man
is himself. Man must first rule over his own lust. Man must rule
over his own covetousness, vanity, envy, and sexual appitite. When
the man has rule over his own lust, only then, can man rule with
wisdom and love over that which God has placed him in stewardship.

Men are enslaved by their lust. Man's unwillingness to abstain from
sexual desires has made most men into a brute beasts, and not a man
created in the image of God. The uncontrolled lust robs man of his
purpose, fulfillment, honor, power and authority. Man cannot stand
because unbridled lust makes him more like a dog than a man. Men who
behave as a dog deserve to be spoken to as beasts. No dog is fit to
rule God's creation. Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers,
and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth
and maketh a lie. Dogs will NOT inherit the Kingdom designed for
redeemed men from the foundation of the world. The dog's life is
miserable and the dog's culture is a fallen culture. The simple
reason for men becoming dogs is uncontrolled lust.

Consider what happens when God's servants take control over their
sexual behavior. The result is that they will once again be seated
properly on the throne that God has provided for the man. That
throne will not be occupied by a dog. If you are a Christian, God
hast made, (past tense), you a King and a Priest unto God. One can
only be a King unto God IF, IF, IF, one FIRST rules his own lust. A
man is a King, only as long as his subjects do not rule over him.
One is a King only if the perverted the "50-50" power-sharing lie is
exposed for the Antichrist lie that it is.

One is a King unto God when he rules Biblically, in God's wisdom and
love, over that which God has given authority and accountability
before God. If the man will not put off the lust and beastly
behavior, the man can be nothing but a slave. The worst kind of
slave, is the slave to a woman who evidently has no respect for him.
The slave that is despised is a sad slave indeed.

World wide the antichrist perverse global culture has used the
sexuality of a woman to enslave men. The wicked and ungodly worship
of women, sex, and harlotry, has turned the man into an animal. Such
men so enslaved by their lust, and passivity, should be ashamed, and
in truth and love, strongly rebuked. True we descended from Adam.
But that is not an excuse that will stand in judgment.

Adam put a woman before God and lost everything. Because of Adam's
choice to obey his wife, rather than obey God, he brought the curse
and death upon all men. Men better stop being blind to the fact of
that this same wickedness prevails in our culture everywhere in the
world. Men have become dogs and do not even know it.

Why do so-called Christian men follow the world's standards of
male/female relationships and NOT God's standards? Why do so-called
Christian men partake of ungodly and unbiblical mating rituals
like "dating" and "going out." No one can find such perverse
practices in the Bible. Why do so-Called Christian men have
interaction with unsaved worldly women? Why do so-called Christian
men take worldly women as wives? Why do so-called Christian men look
on worldly women dressed as harlots, with lust, instead of scorn and
derision?

The reason is simple. The rule in the man's life is not the Sprit of
God, but the spirit of lust. God did not ask you to come out from
among HER and be ye separate, He COMMANDS it. All can see the
instruction and command of the Lord from Genesis to Revelation for
men to stay away from, and not touch, ungodly women.

It is wrong to rebuke women and tell them to quit dressing like
whores and seducers. Why? Because IF the so-called Christian men
would refuse to play their game, the fashion would quickly change.
If so-called Christian men would refuse to look upon them in their
harlot's attire, except with sadness and compassionate pity, their
fashion would change. No woman in her right mind should want to
dress like a harlot. This is a dangerous world, and these are
perilous times, and that is not a smart or godly way to dress.

Women dress inappropriately, and immodestly, in public, and even in
churches. So-called Christian women dress like harlots, because of
the gross failure, of the so-called Christian men. When the so-
called Christian men look on the women with lust like dogs, the
women are forced to dress like whores.

It is time that Christian men be like the one who said whosoever
looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with
her already in his heart. It is time Christian men be like Christ
and not like hypocrite dogs. So called Christian men have been
enslaved by a silly chemical release in your brain. Many men believe
the lie that they have to have sex. Such men are simply under a
curse of unbridled lust. As soon as you will confess the resulting
sins of your lust, TRULY REPENT, meaning by His grace you will stop
it, you will see God lift that curse of lust.

Yes, the GJiGT is an equal opportunity offender. Gal 4:16 Am I
therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

Shalom & Simcha,
Jim Searcy






-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> End
> times:
> http://www.geocities.com/mart1963/

Martus
2004-05-25 02:23:21 EST
HUGE ISSUE CRYSTALLIZES AS BISHOPS BEGIN TO DECIDE ON COMMUNION FOR
POLITICIANS

It's a line drawn in the sand. When a Catholic lines up to receive
Communion, he is testifying to a purity of spirit and union with a
Church and its laws. He is testifying to oneness with the Spirit. And
it is clear that the Holy Spirit -- giver and Creator of life -- would
never brook anything but a firm, outright rejection of abortion.

The Eucharist, after all, is "life-giving."

Which brings us to politicians. As the campaign season gears up, the
issue of abortion is placing those running for office, most
particularly Catholic John Kerry, on a potential collision course with
the Church -- which is exactly what should happen.

That possibility has crystallized because several bishops -- still
just a handful of the 300 in the U.S., but more than last time around
-- have publicly declared that pro-choice leaders should refrain from
reception of the Eucharist.

This has occurred in Missouri, Illinois, and New Jersey -- where one
state senator has left the Church over the issue and where the
governor found himself in the crosshairs.

The New Jersey stand came after those other bishops -- most notably
Archbishop Raymond L. Burke of St. Louis -- said they would deny
Senator Kerry Communion. The same has been pronounced by a Canadian
bishop, Fred Henry, of Calgary, who said just last week that "by
sharing in Communion, Catholics testify that they are in fundamental
union of heart and mind. On fundamental life issues, Kerry is clearly
offside."


Meanwhile, out west, in Colorado Springs, Bishop Michael J. Sheridan
ventured a step farther and issued a pastoral letter stating that
ordinary parishioners should also refrain from Communion if they vote
for politicians who support abortion, euthanasia, stem-cell research
or same-sex marriage.

"It's extraordinary to see this happening in the American hierarchy,"
said Paul Lakeland, chair of the department of religious studies at
Fairfield University in Connecticut. He said this is partly the result
of a younger generation of conservative bishops, appointed by Pope
John Paul II, who are clashing with bishops more "in tune" with Second
Vatican Council and the so-called teachings of the 1960s.

But the key word remains "handful." Only a few bishops have spoken
out, and at the same time, Cardinal John Mahony of Los Angeles and
Cardinal Theodore E. McCarrick of Washington have stepped away from
such a public rebuke for pro-choicers. So have two bishops in Arizona
and the new archbishop in Boston, where Kerry lives and often
worships. "I think that many bishops among us think that such persons
should have canonical censures," Cardinal McCarrick told 30 Giorni
Magazine. "But I also think that many bishops would not like the
possibility of receiving the Eucharist to be a part of these
sanctions."

There is merit to this. Perhaps the bishops should first start out by
publicly and uniformly informing voters and candidates alike that they
are welcome -- highly welcome -- to attend Mass -- that they are loved
as brothers -- but that they should not take Communion if they support
abortion. If this doesn't work, stronger measures are quickly
required. This will get their attention. We see it already. Last week,
pro-choice congressmen became so alarmed at the growing discussions on
their reception of Communion that in a letter to Cardinal McCarrick
they warned that such action would lead to increased incidents of
anti-Catholicism -- or at least anti-Christian "paranoia." The letter
was addressed to Cardinal McCarrick because he heads a task force that
is trying to develop a policy for U.S. bishops.

That task force has its work cut out for it. There is quite a split.
It will be fascinating to see how it develops. Bishop Gerald Kicana of
Tucson says that sanctions against politicians would be "premature"
while Bishop Thomas Olmsted of Phoenix says that instead of refusing
to offer Communion, he will try to use persuasion to educate
politicians about Church teachings.

This was fore-echoed by Cardinal Mahony, who said that education and
not rebuke was the way to handle this issue.

But in fact there has been enough education (everyone knows what
abortion is) and pro-choicers have proven to be remarkably resilient
to any persuasion -- even ultrasound showing a living being in the
womb. It is not a matter of education but of spiritual blindness, and
those blinders must be lifted -- forcibly, if necessary.

Taking away a sacrament is what we mean by "force."

That's how grave the situation is. In normal circumstances, what the
congressmen wrote is correct: the Church should be careful not to
wander into partisan politics. It should remember that abortion is
technically legal -- and that congressmen are supposed to uphold the
law as well as represent constituents, Catholics and non-Catholic
alike. The Church should not meddle with the state, and vice versa. No
one likes to see the distribution of Communion involved with poitics:
most pro-choicers are Democrats.

But abortion goes far beyond the pale and is the most serious public
sin in American history. It threatens the society itself -- far more
important than the war on terrorism. Every day as many Americans die
through abortion as died on September 11. That's terror. Worldwide,
the annual tally is at least 46 million (or 126,000 per day). When
such an atrocity is in progress, the Church has to throw down the
gauntlet and act as a real, towering force against it.

This will at first lead to criticism but in the end to new respect.

A strong Church brings converts.

And a strong Church will begin to transcend the scandals.

It is time to follow Jesus -- Who never worried about popularity --
and be careful not to compromise. It is time to step out from the
bureaucratic. It is time to operate in the Spirit -- the Spirit of
Life. In Colorado, one man threatens to withhold a $100,000 donation
from a parish building project unless the bishop retracts his
statement on pro-abortion politicians. Meanwhile, the wife of Senator
Ted Kennedy has decried the bishops' statements as "dangerous."

Let such threats fall on deaf ears.

In our opinion, so serious is the sin of abortion -- and allowing it
-- that the policy should be simple: no politician who has facilitated
abortion in his voting record and thus served as silent conspirator
should receive the Body of Christ until there is full repentance.
Abortion is as great a crime as has occurred in the history of humans
-- taking far more lives that any holocausts -- and if the Church does
not stand against this in the strongest way, it stands against little.
If it does not stand against abortion it is not strong enough. It is
not a leader. It is simply a cultural institution.

We can't pretend to have the discernment of a bishop -- and will
adhere to whatever they decide. But before there is a decision, let us
cast our voice for strong public rebuke. Let us also cast our voice
against the Church compromising. The Church should not be a
bureaucracy.

Anti-Christian? It is there anyway. And if you are in favor of
abortion, you're anti-Christian to begin with.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By giving the Lord's supper(Communion) to the rebellious, who find
nothing wrong with their actions and revel in their wickedness, you
are sealing their damnation because they will never change or see the
need to change as they are mislead into believing that it is ok by God
when it is not.

Those that give Communion to these people who they know uphold sin are
nothing more then the soldiers of Satan bringing the rebellious to
hell!

1 Corinthians 11:23-32 (GNB)
23 For I received from the Lord the teaching that I passed on to you:
that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took a piece of
bread, 24gave thanks to God, broke it, and said, "This is my body,
which is for you. Do this in memory of me." 25In the same way, after
the supper he took the cup and said, "This cup is God's new covenant,
sealed with my blood. Whenever you drink it, do so in memory of me."

26 This means that every time you eat this bread and drink from this
cup you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. 27It follows that if
anyone eats the Lord's bread or drinks from his cup in a way that
dishonours him, he or she is guilty of sin against the Lord's body and
blood. 28So then, you should all examine yourselves first, and then
eat the bread and drink from the cup. 29For if people do not recognize
the meaning of the Lord's body when they eat the bread and drink from
the cup, they bring judgement on themselves as they eat and drink.
30That is why many of you are weak and ill, and several have died.
31If we would examine ourselves first, we would not come under God's
judgement. 32But we are judged and punished by the Lord, so that we
shall not be condemned together with the world.


Romans 7:14-25 (NRSV)
The Inner Conflict
14 For we know that the law is spiritual; but I am of the flesh, sold
into slavery under sin.c 15 I do not understand my own actions. For I
do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do
what I do not want, I agree that the law is good. 17 But in fact it is
no longer I that do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18 For I know
that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will
what is right, but I cannot do it. 19 For I do not do the good I want,
but the evil I do not want is what I do. 20 Now if I do what I do not
want, it is no longer I that do it, but sin that dwells within me.

21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do what is good, evil
lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God in my inmost
self, 23 but I see in my members another law at war with the law of my
mind, making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members.
24 Wretched man that I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?
25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with my mind I am a slave to the law of God, but with my
flesh I am a slave to the law of sin.








> End
> times:
> http://www.geocities.com/mart1963/

Pastor Dave
2004-05-25 06:58:50 EST
On 24 May 2004 22:22:51 -0700, marttila69@hotmail.com
(martus) posted thusly:


>A help meet, or a companion, was not found for him.

Literally, a "suitable HELPER".



± Pastor Dave Raymond ±

"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16

"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17

/}
@#######{]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\}

Theistic evolutionists are out to please men,
rather than God. They claim to believe in a
virgin birth, people rising from the dead, water
turned into wine and yet, they don't believe that
God created the heaven and the earth in six literal
days, thereby making hypocrites of themselves. Why?
Because man says it isn't so and they would rather
try to please men, instead of choosing to believe
God and stand up for Him. Preachers who claim
theistic evolution are the biggest hypocrites of all
and are in the most danger. Why? Read Isaiah 9:16;
Jeremiah 23:1, 50:6. What do YOU stand for?
"...choose this day whom you will serve. ...as for
me and my house, we will serve the Lord." - Jos 24:15



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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Ninure Saunders
2004-05-25 09:21:12 EST
In article <511a49a.0405242223.1a93bb0c@posting.google.com>,
m*9@hotmail.com (martus) wrote:

<snip>

Rom. 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on
someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are
condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.

Rom. 14:4 Who are you to judge someone else\ufffds servant? To his own master
he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him
stand.



Rom. 14:10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look
down on your brother? For we will all stand before God\ufffds judgment seat.

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one
point, he has become guilty of all.


James 4:11 Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks
against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it.
When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on
it.

James 4:12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to
save and destroy. But you \ufffdwho are you to judge your neighbor?

Anyone refusing to serve communion to another person who declares
him/herself a follower of Jesus is in violation of the above BIBICAL
teachings/commands.

Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
http://Rainbow-Christian.tk

The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk

My latest Poll
Who would Jesus vote for?
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Votelet/34458


My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk

My Online Diary
http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org

To send e-mail, remove nohate from address

Turin
2004-05-25 12:48:48 EST
Another great snow job from out of the "family" heresy:

Pervert the scriptures that subjugate women. Blame men for women's
sins, but don't have men telling women what to do either. Pretend
this is men being in charge. Reverse things: Belittle the man until
you break him and until he starts slavishly doing as he's told, out of
shame, and then mix the messages some more by pretending this
so-called "manhood" is really him being in charge. Throw a lot of
"rule in love" in his face.


Old stuff, and early feminism. Don't fall for it, guys.

This weakling and false preacher would lay you into bondage for
political reasons. You're either in total charge or else the women
rule you passively, and manipulatively. The real point was to make
the women unaccountable for their own behavior, and to dump it onto
you. ...and passive subjugation is witchcraft.....


Nobody is claiming that men are legally able to follow the Bible's
patriarchal order anymore - just like, we also don't see these people
selling their property, as Jesus said, and having all things in
common, anymore, either.

Therefore, if religious-humanist hypocrites are going to throw such a
fine degree of dogma in their faces when it suits their political
agenda, then they'd better be prepared to have the whole thing be
shoved in their own faces in return, to account for their own
compromises. Christian men don't have to take this pharisaical crap
from a bunch of dissimulators.....



m*9@hotmail.com (martus) wrote in message news:<511a49a.0405242122.7a580ad8@posting.google.com>...
> Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 10:32:40 -0000
> From: "jsearcy2001" <jsearcy2001@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Christian Men & Christian Women - The Curse & The Cure
>
> Dear Friends -
>
> If EVERYONE in ChurchDumb believes a heresy to be the truth, the
> heresy does not stop being heresy. Luke 6:26 is one Woe that is not
> too great of a concern for the GJiGT.
>
> To reverse, pervert, and mock God's order, and authority structure,
> is to plainly announce a hatred for God. Rebellion is as the sin of
> witchcraft (1 Sam. 15:23). One does not have to look far, to see how
> witchcraft reigns in the place of godliness. We are to be TRUE
> worshippers of God. We are not to bow to the perversions, and the
> idols, and false gods, of this wicked antichrist world.
>
> The TRUTH that women are NOT to teach, preach, or usurp authority
> over the man, ATTACKS a central PILLAR of the Antichrist's system of
> control. This TRUTH almost always will bring the charge of hate-
> criminal. Telling this TRUTH of the Word of God will always be
> considered hate in this wicked antichrist world. The GJiGT says
> these difficult things because of GREAT LOVE for Women, Men, and
> Children of God. The GJiGT loves women enough to tell them the
> truth.
>
> "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own
> understanding" (Proverbs 3:5)
>
> To "trust in the Lord with all thine heart" is to reject our own
> understanding and reasoning in favor of the plain teaching of the
> Word of God. The Word of God is not "unreasonable." The Word of God
> is absolute pure truth, it is wise, and it is practical, and far-
> sighted.
>
> Adam was formed by the Hand of God out of the dust of the earth
> before there was a "woman" or "wife". The purpose for all things can
> be found in their creation. Adam was first formed, and God breathed
> into him the breath of life. Adam was placed into the Garden of Eden
> to dress it, and all creatures were brought to him, to give them
> names.
>
> A help meet, or a companion, was not found for him. All this
> happened BEFORE Eve was created. AFTER all of this, she was created
> out of a part of Adam. Woman was made out of one of the ribs of man.
> The woman was formed from the man, and for the man.
>
> Woman's purpose is found in her creation. The fulfillment of purpose
> of the woman is in the perfection of the man. In all the creation
> there was not found a companion acceptable to him. We should see
> that the woman was created for the purpose of helping the man. She
> was created BEFORE THE FALL to help him. She was made out of him,
> and made for him, to be his helper, NOT his ruler.
>
> We should understand that the woman's subjection to the man is
> according to the laws of nature and creation. We should understand
> this was RIGHT and PERFECT order BEFORE the fall. No consideration
> of a PERVERTED order would have occurred if the FALL had not
> occurred. The FALL and the curse resulting from the FALL brought the
> woman the DESIRE of a PERVERSE order leaving her UNFULFILLED in the
> striving after a perverted and cursed order.
>
> We should remember that the eternal wisdom of God is displayed in
> the order and structure of the creation.
> Rom 1:20 - For the invisible things of him from the creation of the
> world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are
> made, even his eternal power and Godhead."
>
> Do we REALLY see and understand that God's eternal power and Godhead
> are made evident in the structure that He has ordained? If we do
> understand that, then we can KNOW that God is defamed, and God's
> glory tarnished, and God's character is slandered, when His PERFECT
> order is ignored. God suffers indignation when rebellion is allowed
> to continue. If we REALLY do want to see God's power and glory
> manifest in our life, there is a simple answer. John 14:21 He that
> hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and
> he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him,
> and will manifest myself to him.
>
> Paul, in Rom 1:20, reveals that the invisible things of God are
> CLEARLY SEEN, being understood by the perfect order and purpose of
> that which was made.
>
> The curse that came in with the FALL, did not change the God
> ordained authority structure. The FALL did NOT change the perfect
> order that God created before the fall.
>
> The curse involved the woman's DESIRE to rule over her husband. That
> PERVERTED desire DID NOT EXIST BEFORE the fall. We CAN CHOOSE to
> WILL to do right. The FALLEN sin nature results in a MORAL WEAKNESS,
> disabling us from choosing right, unless God is permitted to work IN
> us. Yes, it is true, that God limits Himself, in regard to mankind's
> freedom to will and to choose.
>
> The result of the FALL is that, without being born again, and the
> Holy Spirit of God dwelling in her, the woman CAN NOT do other than
> her natural desires. The woman can NOT otherwise help but to desire
> consciously, OR UNCONSCCIOUSLY, the cursed pervers desire to bear
> rule over men.
>
> Man was created to wisely, and compassionately rule over all of
> Creation. Man was to rule wisely, in love, over the woman as his
> help meet. Man was to love God, love his wife, and care for the
> animals and plants.
>
> We do know and see how man will NOT rule as he is supposed to,
> because he is deceived, weak, and totally ruled over, by his own
> stupid lusts. From the beginning, the devil has not had to deceive
> man out of his crown, for that serpent has successfully decieved the
> woman. The devil has very easily manipulated and deceived the woman
> into using her own wiles against the object of the devils envy,
> enmity, and hatred.
>
> Today, by a corrupt culture, by a failed and confused secular
> worldview, man is easily convinced to disobey God, in favor of the
> cursed perverted desire of the woman, that she does not even know
> she has. Remember Paul, by the Holy Ghost, told us that Adam WAS NOT
> DECEIVED. 1 Tim 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being
> deceived was in the transgression. Adam willfully disobeyed God in
> order to be pleasing to his wife, and to join her in her rebellion.
> ADAM WAS NOT DECEIVED. Adam knew what he was doing was wrong.
>
> Adam had NO EXCUSE for obeying his wife in REBELLION against God.
> Adam despised God for the sake of his wife. Eve was deceived by the
> devil, and Adam who was NOT deceived, DID NOT PROTECT Eve, from the
> deception of Satan. Adam was moved according to the working of his
> own will. Adam made the WILFUL choice by his SIN OF PASSIVITY, to
> join his wife in her rebellion.
>
> It is no different today. In this wicked and perverse generation,
> the man continues to willfully sin by PASSIVITY, and choosing to
> reject the wisdom and teaching of the Word of God. He chooses to
> rebel against the Word of God, by having a woman rule over him. The
> true cause of this SIN is his inability to control his own lusts.
>
> MEN WERE CREATED BY GOD TO RULE WITH WISDOM AND LOVE OVER THE
> CREATION. The first part of creation which must be ruled by the man
> is himself. Man must first rule over his own lust. Man must rule
> over his own covetousness, vanity, envy, and sexual appitite. When
> the man has rule over his own lust, only then, can man rule with
> wisdom and love over that which God has placed him in stewardship.
>
> Men are enslaved by their lust. Man's unwillingness to abstain from
> sexual desires has made most men into a brute beasts, and not a man
> created in the image of God. The uncontrolled lust robs man of his
> purpose, fulfillment, honor, power and authority. Man cannot stand
> because unbridled lust makes him more like a dog than a man. Men who
> behave as a dog deserve to be spoken to as beasts. No dog is fit to
> rule God's creation. Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers,
> and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth
> and maketh a lie. Dogs will NOT inherit the Kingdom designed for
> redeemed men from the foundation of the world. The dog's life is
> miserable and the dog's culture is a fallen culture. The simple
> reason for men becoming dogs is uncontrolled lust.
>
> Consider what happens when God's servants take control over their
> sexual behavior. The result is that they will once again be seated
> properly on the throne that God has provided for the man. That
> throne will not be occupied by a dog. If you are a Christian, God
> hast made, (past tense), you a King and a Priest unto God. One can
> only be a King unto God IF, IF, IF, one FIRST rules his own lust. A
> man is a King, only as long as his subjects do not rule over him.
> One is a King only if the perverted the "50-50" power-sharing lie is
> exposed for the Antichrist lie that it is.
>
> One is a King unto God when he rules Biblically, in God's wisdom and
> love, over that which God has given authority and accountability
> before God. If the man will not put off the lust and beastly
> behavior, the man can be nothing but a slave. The worst kind of
> slave, is the slave to a woman who evidently has no respect for him.
> The slave that is despised is a sad slave indeed.
>
> World wide the antichrist perverse global culture has used the
> sexuality of a woman to enslave men. The wicked and ungodly worship
> of women, sex, and harlotry, has turned the man into an animal. Such
> men so enslaved by their lust, and passivity, should be ashamed, and
> in truth and love, strongly rebuked. True we descended from Adam.
> But that is not an excuse that will stand in judgment.
>
> Adam put a woman before God and lost everything. Because of Adam's
> choice to obey his wife, rather than obey God, he brought the curse
> and death upon all men. Men better stop being blind to the fact of
> that this same wickedness prevails in our culture everywhere in the
> world. Men have become dogs and do not even know it.
>
> Why do so-called Christian men follow the world's standards of
> male/female relationships and NOT God's standards? Why do so-called
> Christian men partake of ungodly and unbiblical mating rituals
> like "dating" and "going out." No one can find such perverse
> practices in the Bible. Why do so-Called Christian men have
> interaction with unsaved worldly women? Why do so-called Christian
> men take worldly women as wives? Why do so-called Christian men look
> on worldly women dressed as harlots, with lust, instead of scorn and
> derision?
>
> The reason is simple. The rule in the man's life is not the Sprit of
> God, but the spirit of lust. God did not ask you to come out from
> among HER and be ye separate, He COMMANDS it. All can see the
> instruction and command of the Lord from Genesis to Revelation for
> men to stay away from, and not touch, ungodly women.
>
> It is wrong to rebuke women and tell them to quit dressing like
> whores and seducers. Why? Because IF the so-called Christian men
> would refuse to play their game, the fashion would quickly change.
> If so-called Christian men would refuse to look upon them in their
> harlot's attire, except with sadness and compassionate pity, their
> fashion would change. No woman in her right mind should want to
> dress like a harlot. This is a dangerous world, and these are
> perilous times, and that is not a smart or godly way to dress.
>
> Women dress inappropriately, and immodestly, in public, and even in
> churches. So-called Christian women dress like harlots, because of
> the gross failure, of the so-called Christian men. When the so-
> called Christian men look on the women with lust like dogs, the
> women are forced to dress like whores.
>
> It is time that Christian men be like the one who said whosoever
> looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with
> her already in his heart. It is time Christian men be like Christ
> and not like hypocrite dogs. So called Christian men have been
> enslaved by a silly chemical release in your brain. Many men believe
> the lie that they have to have sex. Such men are simply under a
> curse of unbridled lust. As soon as you will confess the resulting
> sins of your lust, TRULY REPENT, meaning by His grace you will stop
> it, you will see God lift that curse of lust.
>
> Yes, the GJiGT is an equal opportunity offender. Gal 4:16 Am I
> therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
>
> Shalom & Simcha,
> Jim Searcy
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > End
> > times:
> > http://www.geocities.com/mart1963/


- - -

This has been another enlightening moment, with:

Turin

I have such sites to show you...
------------------------
http://members.fortunecity.com/turinturambar/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Men_First/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Men_Politics/
----------------------
"He who changeth, altereth, misconstrueth, argueth with, deleteth, or
maketh a lie about these words or causeth them to not be known shall
burn in hell forever and ever...."

-----

Sajo Markecz
2004-05-25 19:53:07 EST

"Turin" <turin_turam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:62178907.0405250848.6c872c9f@posting.google.com...
> Another great snow job from out of the "family" heresy:
> >
> > Man was created to wisely, and compassionately rule over all of
> > Creation. Man was to rule wisely, in love, over the woman as his
> > help meet. Man was to love God, love his wife, and care for the
> > animals and plants.
> >
> > We do know and see how man will NOT rule as he is supposed to,
> > because he is deceived, weak, and totally ruled over, by his own
> > stupid lusts. From the beginning, the devil has not had to deceive
> > man out of his crown, for that serpent has successfully decieved the
> > woman. The devil has very easily manipulated and deceived the woman
> > into using her own wiles against the object of the devils envy,
> > enmity, and hatred.

> > Adam had NO EXCUSE for obeying his wife in REBELLION against God.
> > Adam despised God for the sake of his wife. Eve was deceived by the
> > devil, and Adam who was NOT deceived, DID NOT PROTECT Eve, from the
> > deception of Satan. Adam was moved according to the working of his
> > own will. Adam made the WILFUL choice by his SIN OF PASSIVITY, to
> > join his wife in her rebellion.
> >
In the Roman Catholic denomination of Christianity , the patron saint of
nature and all living things is St. Francis of Assisi . Proverbs 12 : 10
says that " A righteous man regards the life of his animal , but the tender
mercies of the wicked are cruel ." Animals are neither to be tortured nor
neglected , and they are to be killed as quickly and as painlessly as
possible only for the sake of food and commercial items . Animals are not to
be hunted to extinction . Revelation 11 : 18 says that God will destroy
those who destroy the earth . Psalm 104 and Psalm 148 in the Old Testament
have many uplifting verses praising the beauty of God's creation , which ,
according to Genesis chapters 1 - 2 , God made all of it to be good .

One day the seas might be turned into large lakes . Some of the verses of
Ezekiel , chapter 47 , say that the Dead Sea , an extremely salty lake ,
will one day be turned into a fresh water lake, with as many kinds of fish
living in its waters as there are in the Mediterranean Sea. Jesus Christ ,
who was God Himself in the body of a man when He was on earth [ the Gospel
of St. John 1 : 1 - 5 ] , once miraculously fed 5000 adult males , besides
the women and children , on the shores of the large fresh water lake called
the Sea of Galilee , also known as Lake Gennesaret or Lake Tiberias , and He
also walked on the surface of Lake Galilee by means of a miracle [ Matthew
14 : 13 - 36 ] . If God wanted to , He could make whales live in large fresh
water lakes with a never ending supply of food , because nothing is
impossible with God [ see Mark 10 : 27 ] . Somewhere in the verses of Isaiah
, chapter 11 , it is said that one day the lion will be turned into a
harmless herbivore , and that children will play with poisonous snakes , and
not be hurt by them . The Caspian Sea , a large salt lake that is about nine
tenths the size of the state of California in area , has seals , porpoises ,
tortoises , and alligators living in its waters , although over the last few
centuries they have nearly been hunted to extinction . The Caspian Sea was
once connected to the Seven Seas in prehistoric times , although continental
drift eventually enclosed the prehistoric Tethys Sea . Lake Baikal or Baykal
, a large fresh water lake that is little bit more than three quarters the
size of Switzerland in area , also has seals living in its waters . Lake
Baikal is located far inland in Russian Siberia , and is connected to the
distant Arctic Ocean by the Angara River , which was much wider in
prehistoric times before continental plate movement or tectonics narrowed
the river .

Albrecht Ploum in his book called " Natural Mirrors of the Universe " [
Spiegelbilder des Universums ] , likened the shape of the human embryo to
Pangaea , the prehistoric world super continent that existed 200 million
years ago , before the individual continents split apart . Pangaea was
surrounded by a world ocean called Panthalassa , much as the human embryo is
surrounded in the watery womb , supplied with food , water , and oxygen by
the umbilical cord . Although Adam was made in the image of God , so was Eve
, although indirectly , since God made Eve out of one of the ribs of Adam .
I personally believe in the Creation story of the Old Testament book of
Genesis as a parable , not as literal facts of history [ see Matthew 13 :
10 - 17 , for an explanation by Jesus Christ for the purpose of parables ] .
A literal interpretation of the Bible can sometimes lead to sin . For
example , according to a literal interpretation of the Bible , the children
of Adam and Eve in order to produce offspring would have been guilty of the
sin of incest , as would the grandchildren of Noah . God warned Adam , and
Adam presumably warned Eve , not to eat the fruit of forbidden knowledge ,
that is , the knowledge of what the difference between right and wrong is ,
and the knowledge of what true death is , i.e. , eternal damnation of the
soul and body . The rest of the living things were all made good by God ,
and the animals did not lose their innocence by eating the fruit of
forbidden knowledge [ see Genesis chapters 1 - 3 ] . The talking and cunning
snake in the Garden of Eden was Satan , the fallen angel , in disguise [ see
Revelation 12 : 7 - 9 ] . When animals do something violent , they do it in
ignorance of the knowledge of what the difference between right and wrong is
, and therefore in innocence , whereas when humans do something violent ,
they do it in knowledge , and therefore with a guilty conscience . Although
eating both animals and plants is morally acceptable for humans , eating
only plants is even better [ see Genesis 1 : 29 - 30 ].

God , who was powerful enough to create the universe out of the nothingness
of space by the Big Bang event many billions of years ago , is also powerful
enough to suspend the laws of physics , which He created , or at least
allowed to evolve within certain set rules , by means of miracles . God is
indeed the eternal , with no beginning and no end , timeless , omnipotent ,
omniscient , perfect being who is the uncaused first cause of Aristotle [
see the Acts of the Apostles , chapter 17 : 16 - 34 ] . St. Paul said in 2
Thessalonians 3 : 2 that his brethren should pray for Christian evangelists
to be saved from "unreasonable and wicked men; for not all have faith." So
reason and faith do go together. God is good and perfect because He is the
supreme being. The goodness of God is reflected in Sigmund Freud's concept
of the superego [ the conscience ], when compared with the ego [ the
rational intellect ] and the id [ the instinct ].













Martus
2004-05-25 22:06:56 EST
R*e@Rainbow-Christian.tk (Ninure Saunders) wrote in message news:<RainbowChristiannohate-2505040835400001@h-68-164-228-9.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net>...
> In article <511a49a.0405242223.1a93bb0c@posting.google.com>,
> marttila69@hotmail.com (martus) wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> Rom. 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on
> someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are
> condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
>
> Rom. 14:4 Who are you to judge someone else¹s servant? To his own master
> he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him
> stand.
>
>
>
> Rom. 14:10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look
> down on your brother? For we will all stand before God¹s judgment seat.
>
> James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one
> point, he has become guilty of all.
>
>
> James 4:11 Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks
> against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it.
> When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on
> it.
>
> James 4:12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to
> save and destroy. But you ?who are you to judge your neighbor?
>
> Anyone refusing to serve communion to another person who declares
> him/herself a follower of Jesus is in violation of the above BIBICAL
> teachings/commands.
>
> Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
> http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
>
> The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
> http://Ninure-Saunders.tk


Romans 1:16-32 (NRSV)
The Power of the Gospel
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel; it is the power of God for
salvation to everyone who has faith, to the Jew first and also to the
Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed through faith
for faith; as it is written, "The one who is righteous will live by
faith."e

The Guilt of Humankind

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all
ungodliness and wickedness of those who by their wickedness suppress
the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them,
because God has shown it to them. 20 Ever since the creation of the
world his eternal power and divine nature, invisible though they are,
have been understood and seen through the things he has made. So they
are without excuse; 21 for though they knew God, they did not honor
him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their
thinking, and their senseless minds were darkened. 22 Claiming to be
wise, they became fools; 23 and they exchanged the glory of the
immortal God for images resembling a mortal human being or birds or
four-footed animals or reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to
impurity, to the degrading of their bodies among themselves, 25
because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and
served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever!
Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women
exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, 27 and in the same way
also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed
with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men
and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.

28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up
to a debased mind and to things that should not be done. 29 They were
filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full
of envy, murder, strife, deceit, craftiness, they are gossips, 30
slanderers, God-haters,f insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of
evil, rebellious toward parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless,
ruthless. 32 They know God's decree, that those who practice such
things deserve to die—yet they not only do them but even applaud
others who practice them.

Ninure Saunders
2004-05-26 10:51:18 EST
In article <511a49a.0405251806.415dbedb@posting.google.com>,
m*9@hotmail.com (martus) wrote:

-*e@Rainbow-Christian.tk (Ninure Saunders) wrote in
message
news:<RainbowChristiannohate-2505040835400001@h-68-164-228-9.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net>...
-> In article <511a49a.0405242223.1a93bb0c@posting.google.com>,
-> marttila69@hotmail.com (martus) wrote:
->
-> <snip>
->
-> Rom. 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on
-> someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are
-> condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
->
-> Rom. 14:4 Who are you to judge someone else\ufffds servant? To his own master
-> he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him
-> stand.
->
->
->
-> Rom. 14:10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look
-> down on your brother? For we will all stand before God\ufffds judgment seat.
->
-> James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one
-> point, he has become guilty of all.
->
->
-> James 4:11 Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks
-> against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it.
-> When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on
-> it.
->
-> James 4:12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to
-> save and destroy. But you ?who are you to judge your neighbor?
->
-> Anyone refusing to serve communion to another person who declares
-> him/herself a follower of Jesus is in violation of the above BIBICAL
-> teachings/commands.
->
-> Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
-> http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
->
-> The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
-> http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
-
-
-Romans 1:16-32 (NRSV)
-The Power of the Gospel
-16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel; it is the power of God for
-salvation to everyone who has faith, to the Jew first and also to the
-Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed through faith
-for faith; as it is written, "The one who is righteous will live by
-faith."e
-
-The Guilt of Humankind
-
-18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all
-ungodliness and wickedness of those who by their wickedness suppress
-the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them,
-because God has shown it to them. 20 Ever since the creation of the
-world his eternal power and divine nature, invisible though they are,
-have been understood and seen through the things he has made. So they
-are without excuse; 21 for though they knew God, they did not honor
-him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their
-thinking, and their senseless minds were darkened. 22 Claiming to be
-wise, they became fools; 23 and they exchanged the glory of the
-immortal God for images resembling a mortal human being or birds or
-four-footed animals or reptiles.
-
-24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to
-impurity, to the degrading of their bodies among themselves, 25
-because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and
-served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever!
-Amen.
-
-26 For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women
-exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, 27 and in the same way
-also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed
-with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men
-and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.
-
-28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up
-to a debased mind and to things that should not be done. 29 They were
-filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full
-of envy, murder, strife, deceit, craftiness, they are gossips, 30
-slanderers, God-haters,f insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of
-evil, rebellious toward parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless,
-ruthless. 32 They know God's decree, that those who practice such
-things deserve to die\ufffdyet they not only do them but even applaud
-others who practice them.


Gee..you forgot
Rom. 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on
someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are
condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
(The follwing was written by Greg Gadow)

So let us put Paul's speech in context, shall we? I refer you to Romans
1:18-24a (sections in [] are
added by me to give clarity)



"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and
wickedness of men who by their wickedness suppress the truth. For what can
be known about God is plain to them [men who by their wickedness suppress
the truth], because God has shown it to them [men who by their wickedness
suppress the truth]. Ever since the creation of the world his invisible
nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in
the things that have been made. So they [men who by their wickedness
suppress the truth] are without excuse; for although they [men who by
their wickedness suppress the truth] knew God they did not honor him as
God or give thanks to him, but they [men who by their wickedness suppress
the truth] became futile in their thinking and their [men who by their
wickedness suppress the truth] senseless minds were darkened. Claiming to
be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God
for images resembling mortal man or birds or animals or reptiles.
Therefore God gave them [men who by their wickedness suppress the truth]
up...."

Now maybe it is just my public education, but it seems to me that the
'they' whom God gave up refers to the undodliness and wickedness of men
who by their wickedness suppress the truth. That is the last object given
before Paul switches over to the third person plural pronoun, so by the
rules of the English language, that *must* be the "them" he is refering
to. And lets see... "men who by their wickedness suppress the truth",
could that also include men who by their wickedness (fear, hatred,
jealously and plain maliciousness) suppress the truth about God's
boundless love for His creation?

And how do we know that they are "men who by their wickedness suppress the
truth"? Very simply: They neither honor God as God or give thanks to him,
but instead are futile in their thinking, who have senseless, darkened
minds. They claim to be wise even though they are fools, and they have
exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man
or birds or animals or reptiles... or, may I add, flags and "holy" books.

And what else does God do to them? If we read AFTER your favorite quote, we see

"They were filled with all manner of wickedness, evil, covetousness,
malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malignity, they are gossips,
slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil,
disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though
they know God's decree that those who do such things deserve to die, they
not only do them but approve those who practice them. (Romans 1: 29-32)"

So we can know who are the "men who by their wickedness suppress the
truth" (yes,, we are still using THAT "they") because they are gossips,
slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil,
disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.

That's a later stage of things. The fall of the Gentiles in Romans 1 is a
drama in four acts:
(1) When they knew God, they glorified him not as God.
(2) As a result, their minds were darkened, and they exchanged
worship of the Creator for worshipping statues of corruptible
things.
(3) The punishment for that exchange of worship was another
exchange: of natural desires for unnatural lusts. This is
spelled out quite specifically by "for this cause" in verse
26.
(4) The punishment for the original sin (for which there was
less excuse, since it occurred before "their minds were
darkened") comes next and is worse. Verse 28 spells out the
distinct charge against them, and the distinct punishment:
"Even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge"
- the sin of vv. 19-21 - "God gave them over to a reprobate
mind."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
http://Rainbow-Christian.tk

The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk

My latest Poll
Who would Jesus vote for?
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Votelet/34458


My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk

My Online Diary
http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org

To send e-mail, remove nohate from address

Jw
2004-05-27 05:07:36 EST
x-no-archive: yes
On Tue, 25 May 2004 13:21:12 GMT,
R*e@Rainbow-Christian.tk (Ninure Saunders) wrote:
john w replied
>In article <511a49a.0405242223.1a93bb0c@posting.google.com>,
>*9@hotmail.com (martus) wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>Rom. 2:1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on
>someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are
>condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.
>
>Rom. 14:4 Who are you to judge someone else¹s servant? To his own master
>he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him
>stand.
>
>
>
>Rom. 14:10 You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look
>down on your brother? For we will all stand before God¹s judgment seat.
>
>James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one
>point, he has become guilty of all.
>
>
>James 4:11 Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks
>against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it.
>When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on
>it.
>
>James 4:12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to
>save and destroy. But you ‹who are you to judge your neighbor?
>
>Anyone refusing to serve communion to another person who declares
>him/herself a follower of Jesus is in violation of the above BIBICAL
>teachings/commands.

CLAP! CLAP! CLAP! BRAVO!

One's spiritual "state" is between the individual and God. Only God
can decide whether we are worthy. The Bible says we must look inside
before we take of the Lord's table. It does NOT say the "priest" or
anyone else has that power or that authority.


jw

>
>Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
>http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
>
>The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
>http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
>
>My latest Poll
>Who would Jesus vote for?
>http://www.network54.com/Hide/Votelet/34458
>
>
>My Yahoo Group
>http://Ninure.tk
>
>My Online Diary
>http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
>-
>Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
>http://www.MCCchurch.org
>
>To send e-mail, remove nohate from address

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