Bible Discussion: (~) Eat, Drink And Be Merry

(~) Eat, Drink And Be Merry
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Ninure Saunders
2004-05-14 09:37:58 EST
(~) Eat, Drink and Be Merry

The following story is reported to be true, but cannot be verified:

After the "Cold War" was over, a squadron of Russian pilots was invited to
participate in tactical war games at a U.S. Air Force base. A gala dinner
was planned by the Base Commander. Thinking to relax the guests, he
offered a WW II toast to open the meal. Smiling, he lifted his glass and
said, in Russian, "Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow you may die."

The Russian pilots became very quiet and they hardly ate; most left quite
early. Thinking they didn't care for the food, the Commander asked a
Russian pilot what went wrong.

"Well, comrade commander," he said, "I thought it was going well until
your toast. I don't know what you were meaning to say, but what came out
was 'Feast, drink and make happy, for tomorrow we will kill you'."

No matter how you translate it, it doesn't make for good advice to live
by, though it certainly fits in with our culture's view of the purpose of
life. "Live it up! We're all going to die soon, and you can't enjoy
anything beyond the grave, so just focus on bringing yourself pleasure
without regard to what is right or wrong."

It sounds very modern, but it's been around a long, long time. In fact,
Paul said it was a philosophy that might make sense if there was no hope
of a resurrection for us.

"If the dead do not rise, 'Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!'" (I
Cor. 15:32b).

But knowing that there will be a resurrection and a judgment and an
eternity to follow, we know that there has to be more to guide our lives
than just the satisfaction of personal pleasure.

So go ahead and eat and drink (and even make merry), but be careful not to
take God out of the picture, for tomorrow you may die.

Have a great day!

Alan Smith

Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
http://Rainbow-Christian.tk

The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk

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John Ings
2004-05-14 10:43:13 EST
On Fri, 14 May 2004 13:37:58 GMT,
R*e@Rainbow-Christian.tk (Ninure Saunders) wrote:

>"If the dead do not rise, 'Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!'" (I
>Cor. 15:32b).
>
>But knowing that there will be a resurrection and a judgment and an
>eternity to follow,

But you DON'T know that Ninure. You believe, possibly with great
sincerity. You hope, you pray, you confidently expect, but you can't
possibly KNOW!

>we know that there has to be more to guide our lives
>than just the satisfaction of personal pleasure.

No you don't!

>So go ahead and eat and drink (and even make merry), but be careful not to
>take God out of the picture, for tomorrow you may die.

If God is in the picture, and really intends to torment me with
eternal life, I'd better enjoy myself while I can. Eternal life spent
anywhere, in Heaven or in Hell, will be a horrible torment!

## There are those who yearn for eternal life who don't know
## what to do with themselves on a rainy Saturday afternoon.





-Hector-
2004-05-14 12:45:08 EST
On Fri, 14 May 2004 07:43:13 -0700, John Ings <nodamned@spam.org>
wrote:

>On Fri, 14 May 2004 13:37:58 GMT,
>*e@Rainbow-Christian.tk (Ninure Saunders) wrote:
>
>>"If the dead do not rise, 'Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!'" (I
>>Cor. 15:32b).
>>
>>But knowing that there will be a resurrection and a judgment and an
>>eternity to follow,
>
>But you DON'T know that Ninure. You believe, possibly with great
>sincerity. You hope, you pray, you confidently expect, but you can't
>possibly KNOW!
>
I know it. I understand it intuitively. (Maybe even
instinctively, if one instinctive trait might be attributed to man.)

>>we know that there has to be more to guide our lives
>>than just the satisfaction of personal pleasure.
>
>No you don't!
>
>>So go ahead and eat and drink (and even make merry), but be careful not to
>>take God out of the picture, for tomorrow you may die.
>
>If God is in the picture, and really intends to torment me with
>eternal life, I'd better enjoy myself while I can. Eternal life spent
>anywhere, in Heaven or in Hell, will be a horrible torment!
>

But you "DON'T" know that, John. If Ninure doesn't know it,
you can't possibly I know it.


"It is better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven"
Lucifer
Paradise Lost
John Milton


NAS 1 Corinthians 2:9 but just as it is written, "THINGS WHICH EYE HAS
NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD, AND which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART
OF MAN, ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM."


Sigless,
Hector

John Ings
2004-05-14 15:09:07 EST
On Fri, 14 May 2004 09:45:08 -0700, -Hector- <Melitus@Dithyrambic.com>
wrote:

>You believe, possibly with great
>>sincerity. You hope, you pray, you confidently expect, but you can't
>>possibly KNOW!
>>
> I know it. I understand it intuitively. (Maybe even
>instinctively, if one instinctive trait might be attributed to man.)

You mistake conviction for knowledge.

>>If God is in the picture, and really intends to torment me with
>>eternal life, I'd better enjoy myself while I can. Eternal life spent
>>anywhere, in Heaven or in Hell, will be a horrible torment!
>
> But you "DON'T" know that, John.

I know what the human mind can stand, and if God so changes me that I
could stand living for all eternity amidst the sycophants He is
supposed to crave about him, then I won't be me.

>"It is better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven"
>Lucifer
>Paradise Lost
>John Milton

"Even if God did not exist, religion would still be holy and divine...
God is the only being who does not have to exist in order to reign."
Beaudelaire

## Faith proceeds from fear, by way of conceit, to hatred



Glenn \Christian Mystic\
2004-05-14 19:01:15 EST

"John Ings" <nodamned@spam.org> wrote in message
news:pnm9a0tjr98fvm69q4ras0bhqnccg160qf@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 14 May 2004 13:37:58 GMT,
> RainbowChristiannohate@Rainbow-Christian.tk (Ninure Saunders) wrote:
>
> >"If the dead do not rise, 'Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!'"
(I
> >Cor. 15:32b).
> >But knowing that there will be a resurrection and a judgment and an
> >eternity to follow,
>
> But you DON'T know that Ninure. You believe, possibly with great
> sincerity. You hope, you pray, you confidently expect, but you can't
> possibly KNOW!

Someone here is projecting

<snip>



John Ings
2004-05-14 20:26:04 EST
On Fri, 14 May 2004 18:01:15 -0500, "Glenn \(Christian Mystic\)"
<*c@ev1.net> wrote:

>(I
>> >Cor. 15:32b).
>> >But knowing that there will be a resurrection and a judgment and an
>> >eternity to follow,
>>
>> But you DON'T know that Ninure. You believe, possibly with great
>> sincerity. You hope, you pray, you confidently expect, but you can't
>> possibly KNOW!
>
>Someone here is projecting

Ninure knows? She has no faith? Nor any need of faith?

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things HOPED for, the
CONVICTION of things NOT seen.

But Ninure isn't just hoping, she KNOWS? She espouses not mere
conviction, but certain KNOWLEDGE of things SEEN?

## Man has the True Religion---several of them!
Mark Twain




One Blessed Soul
2004-05-14 21:42:39 EST
Here's Hope:

1679 elpizw elpizo el-pid'-zo

from 1680; TDNT-2:517,229; v

AV-trust 18, hope 10, hope for 2, things hoped for 1, vr hope 1; 32

1) to hope

1a) in a religious sense, to wait for salvation with joy and full confidence

2) hopefully to trust in

With FULL confidence. From my understanding of the original greeks intent
with this word, there is no doubt at all... hence, knowing.

As for "conviction"... though it's "evidence" in the KJV, it reads:

1650 elegcov elegchos el'-eng-khos

from 1651; TDNT-2:476,221; n m

AV-reproof 1, evidence 1; 2

1) a proof, that by which a thing is proved or tested

2) conviction

For Synonyms see entry 5884



"John Ings" <nodamned@spam.org> wrote in message
news:3aoaa0dbp5hek5vdqmndqe7nfhovjm30fk@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 14 May 2004 18:01:15 -0500, "Glenn \(Christian Mystic\)"
> <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote:
>
> >(I
> >> >Cor. 15:32b).
> >> >But knowing that there will be a resurrection and a judgment and an
> >> >eternity to follow,
> >>
> >> But you DON'T know that Ninure. You believe, possibly with great
> >> sincerity. You hope, you pray, you confidently expect, but you can't
> >> possibly KNOW!
> >
> >Someone here is projecting
>
> Ninure knows? She has no faith? Nor any need of faith?
>
> Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things HOPED for, the
> CONVICTION of things NOT seen.
>
> But Ninure isn't just hoping, she KNOWS? She espouses not mere
> conviction, but certain KNOWLEDGE of things SEEN?
>
> ## Man has the True Religion---several of them!
> Mark Twain
>
>
>



John Ings
2004-05-14 23:11:07 EST
On Fri, 14 May 2004 20:42:39 -0500, "One Blessed Soul"
<*o@cox.net> wrote:

>With FULL confidence. From my understanding of the original greeks intent
>with this word, there is no doubt at all... hence, knowing.

Lack of doubt is not knowing.
The paranoiac has no doubt at all the whole world is out to get him.

>As for "conviction"... though it's "evidence" in the KJV, it reads:
>
>1650 elegcov elegchos el'-eng-khos
>
>from 1651; TDNT-2:476,221; n m
>
>AV-reproof 1, evidence 1; 2
>
>1) a proof, that by which a thing is proved or tested
>
>2) conviction

"evidence" of things not seen?

Bottom line guys-- how can you have knowledge of things defined as
unknowable? That's what the supernautural is, something unexplainable
by natural law, something beyond human understanding.

## Faith is believing what you know ain't so.
Mark Twain



-Hector-
2004-05-15 08:49:25 EST
On Fri, 14 May 2004 12:09:07 -0700, John Ings <nodamned@spam.org>
wrote:

>On Fri, 14 May 2004 09:45:08 -0700, -Hector- <Melitus@Dithyrambic.com>
>wrote:
>
>>You believe, possibly with great
>>>sincerity. You hope, you pray, you confidently expect, but you can't
>>>possibly KNOW!
>>>
>> I know it. I understand it intuitively. (Maybe even
>>instinctively, if one instinctive trait might be attributed to man.)
>
>You mistake conviction for knowledge.
>
>>>If God is in the picture, and really intends to torment me with
>>>eternal life, I'd better enjoy myself while I can. Eternal life spent
>>>anywhere, in Heaven or in Hell, will be a horrible torment!
>>
>> But you "DON'T" know that, John.
>
>I know what the human mind can stand, and if God so changes me that I
>could stand living for all eternity amidst the sycophants He is
>supposed to crave about him, then I won't be me.
>
Though the point was to illustrate that you purported you
could "know" a thing after having remonstrated that another person
could not have a knowledge within the same context for the quality of
thing to be known, it is my opinion that your conception of what life
after death purports to be within Scripture is not accurate. The
verse I quoted, from 1st Corinthians suggests that of those that serve
God on Earth, they have a place with him in Heaven that is
indescribable and exceeds the highest estate that common man may
imagine;

NIV 1 Corinthians 2:9 However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no
ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those
who love him"--

This in no way implies that the Lord expects his own to "lick
his boots," as it were. Naturally, just as it is with a relationship
of love between a man and wife, where the two ideally profess their
love, that is how it will be between the Lord and his own, as I
understand it. This is one reason why genuine Christians are
corporately referred to as the "bride" of Christ, in the New
Testament.

Concordantly, in that you assert that a follower of Christ cannot
possibly know a certain thing, the verse that follows verse nine
provides some clarity;

10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches
all things, even the deep things of God.

This may be meaningless to you, in spite of your intellectual prowess,
but to those that have a palpable, tangible experience with Christ it
isn't.

>
>"Even if God did not exist, religion would still be holy and divine...
>God is the only being who does not have to exist in order to reign."
>Beaudelaire
>
Man is religious by virtue of what God instilled within him
from his beginning.

Humbly responding,
Hector

John Ings
2004-05-15 10:28:29 EST
On Sat, 15 May 2004 07:49:25 -0500, -Hector- <melitus@Dithyrambic.org>
wrote:

>>>>If God is in the picture, and really intends to torment me with
>>>>eternal life, I'd better enjoy myself while I can. Eternal life spent
>>>>anywhere, in Heaven or in Hell, will be a horrible torment!
>>>
>>> But you "DON'T" know that, John.
>>
>>I know what the human mind can stand, and if God so changes me that I
>>could stand living for all eternity amidst the sycophants He is
>>supposed to crave about him, then I won't be me.
>>
> Though the point was to illustrate that you purported you
>could "know" a thing after having remonstrated that another person
>could not have a knowledge within the same context

No! NOT within that same context. In the first instance I was
referring to a natural mind comprehending a supernatural being . The
second issue was that of a natural mind being content with century
after century, milennia after milennia of consciousness.

> it is my opinion that your conception of what life
>after death purports to be within Scripture is not accurate.

I don't care WHAT it's like! That doesn't matter. Heaven, however
pleasant, would only be so for the first few centuries, unless my mind
was modified to think differently than it does now. Unless I was
brainwashed into liking it in other words.

> The
>verse I quoted, from 1st Corinthians suggests that of those that serve
>God on Earth, they have a place with him in Heaven that is
>indescribable and exceeds the highest estate that common man may
>imagine;

Irrelevant. There is no pleasure that could possibly entertain my
mind, as it now exists, for a milennium. Will there be sex in Heaven?
Good wine? Good food? My kind of music or only the sacred sort?
Or will God change my personality so as to make only those things
He approves of pleasurable to me?

>NIV 1 Corinthians 2:9 However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no
>ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those
>who love him"--
>
> This in no way implies that the Lord expects his own to "lick
>his boots," as it were.

Then what are all those saccarine prayers and fawning hymns about?
"Oh Lord how great thou art..." and on and on.

>Naturally, just as it is with a relationship
>of love between a man and wife, where the two ideally profess their
>love, that is how it will be between the Lord and his own, as I
>understand it.

Can you love a wife you've never met? One who insists on millions of
other husbands? One who proposes to torment you for all eternity if
you don't love her back?

>Concordantly, in that you assert that a follower of Christ cannot
>possibly know a certain thing,

Not "a certain thing". A general thing. BY DEFINITION the supernatural
and the entities that live there are unknowable. If you can comprehend
them, they are part of the natural world.

> the verse that follows verse nine provides some clarity;
>
>10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches
>all things, even the deep things of God.
>
>This may be meaningless to you, in spite of your intellectual prowess,
>but to those that have a palpable, tangible experience with Christ it
>isn't.

It is meaningful to me but YOU don't seem to have thought it through.
Revelation is NOT a source of knowledge. For example:

Suppose I draw my hand out of my pocket and extend my closed fist
toward you. I tell you that I have a quarter in my fist. That's
revelation. It does not equip you with knowledge, only with belief.
In actual fact I do have a quarter in my fist, but you can't know that
without examining it. You may regard me as a trustworthy person who
wouldn't lie to you, but I could be lying this time. Or I could be
mistaken and have a piece of Mexican or European currency in my fist.
You just don't know!

So it is with God. God with all his powers cannot reveal to you even
who he is, short of making you omniscient like himself. The inadequacy
is not God's but ours. We are not competent judges of deity. Deity is
DEFINED as incomprehensible to us. Think about it! How could God prove
to you who He is? Perform parlor tricks like George Burns in "Oh God"?
Create another universe for you as a demo? Would you know another
universe if you saw one?

Revelation, even if genuine and not delusion, can only bring belief,
not knowledge.

>>"Even if God did not exist, religion would still be holy and divine...
>>God is the only being who does not have to exist in order to reign."
>>Beaudelaire
>>
> Man is religious by virtue of what God instilled within him
>from his beginning.

Pascal observed that there is within man a vacuum that can only be
filled by God. He neglected to note that any god will do, even an
imaginary one.

## Amphora coepit institui; currente rota cur urceus exit?


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