Bible Discussion: Will America Ever Fight Israel's Terrorism?

Will America Ever Fight Israel's Terrorism?
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Yas
2003-12-18 11:08:10 EST
Example of israel's systematic Terrorism towards the Palestinian people that
started long before the Intifada, long before Al Qaeda.

------------------------

In April 2002, the troops and tanks of the Israeli army attacked Ramallah
and other towns in occupied Palestine. This was reported as an 'incursion'
to stop terrorism. In fact it was also an attack on civilian life: on
schools, offices, clinics, theatres, radio stations. This systematic
vandalism is typical of one of the longest military occupations in modern
times.

Even the Culture Ministry was destroyed. The director, Liana Badr - Director
of the Palestinian Ministry of Culture and a distinguished novelist and
filmmaker - showed the devastation to John Pilger shortly after it had
happened.

In the administration room files were strewn over the floor and all office
equipment had been deliberately vandalised.

This was a place which promoted Palestinian cultural projects - film making,
book exhibitions and exhibitions of childrens' work, which had been
effectively destroyed by Israeli troops. Liana Badr explains:

"Now we don't have anything to begin with, we don't have computers,
equipment, furniture. And we have this feeling of humiliation".

Elsewhere in the Ministry, Israeli soldiers had smeared their own excrement
on the walls and on office equipment and vandalised an exhibition of
paintings made by Palestinian children.

"They have destroyed everything", says Liana, "They don't respect anything,
they just want to come and destroy and this is the systematic terrorism of
the Israeli state."




Heinrich
2003-12-18 11:35:14 EST

"Yas" <spam@127.0.0.1> schreef in bericht
news:3fe1d0fa$0$36589$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net...
>
of course not. who is the boss and who is the slave?



AnonMoos
2003-12-18 11:59:40 EST
"Yas" <spam@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> Example of israel's systematic Terrorism towards the Palestinian
> people that started long before the Intifada, long before Al Qaeda.
> -------- In April 2002

How is April 2002 "long before" the current phoney pseudo-Intifada
(self-indulgent violence binge), and "long before Al Qaeda"?? I think
you need to look at a calendar, Yassie-baby!

Meanwhile, your shallow cynical propaganda line that the Israelis are
somehow "terrorists" is utter nonsense, considering that the Israeli
army is a professional military force, which considers that it has a
specific military job to do, which should ideally be accomplished with
a minimum of unnecessary casualties on all sides. This ideal is not
always achieved, of course -- but there's no general tendency in
Israeli society to nihilistically glorify killing for the sake of mere
killing, nor to celebrate killings of civilians, and there's no cult
of child sacrifice. When we contrast this with the repellent little
Cult of Death-Worship and Child Sacrifice which the Palestinians are
building up through their perverse glorification and enthusiastic
celebration of nihilistic immoral suicide terrorism crimes -- which
have no goal and achieve nothing except to kill civilians for the sole
and exclusive purpose of killing civilians -- then it's not hard to
see which of the two sides is more terroristic!

It's a simple political fact in this country (whether you like it or
not) that the U.S. government will be extremely reluctant to place
strong effective pressure on Israel as long as the Palestinian
authorities are not making any serious effort to crack down against
such terrorism (but are in fact actively encouraging the
aforementioned repellent little Cult of Death-Worship and Child
Sacrifice which "honors" vile loathesome despicable immoral
suicide-bomber terrorist criminals).

P.S. Are you actually "Caiaphas" pretending to be an Arab? -- he's
the one who pointlessly cross-posts to the Methodist group.

--
Hamas motto: &#1604;&#1575; &#1573;&#1604;&#1607; &#1604;&#1607;&#1605;
&#1573;&#1604;&#1575; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1608;&#1578;&#1548;
«&#1581;&#1605;&#1575;&#1587;» &#1585;&#1587;&#1608;&#1604;
&#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1608;&#1578; (The death-worshipping cult)
Murderers are not martyrs! http://symbolictruth.fateback.com/

Yas
2003-12-18 13:48:35 EST
"AnonMoos" <anonmoos@io.com> wrote in message
news:3FE1DCFC.569B9FE3@io.com...
> "Yas" <spam@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>
> > Example of israel's systematic Terrorism towards the Palestinian
> > people that started long before the Intifada, long before Al Qaeda.
> > -------- In April 2002
>
> How is April 2002 "long before" the current phoney pseudo-Intifada
> (self-indulgent violence binge), and "long before Al Qaeda"?? I think
> you need to look at a calendar, Yassie-baby!
>

There are countless examples israeli terrorism dating right back to early
days of this "state". Of course plenty zionists terrorism in Palestine
before that. I just happned to mention a more recent example that people may
know this is still going on in their life time!!

> Meanwhile, your shallow cynical propaganda line that the Israelis are
> somehow "terrorists" is utter nonsense, considering that the Israeli
> army is a professional military force,

Can you honestly sit there and tell me that destroying Palestinian Cultural
Ministry, vandalising Palestinian children's work, smearing their fowl
excrement on the walls and on office equipment amounts to "Professional
military conduct"??

>which considers that it has a
> specific military job to do,

Yes we all know what that job is don't we. To terrorise the Palestinian
people so they'll leave and israel can steal more of their land!!

>which should ideally be accomplished with
> a minimum of unnecessary casualties on all sides.

Oh come on Annonmoose, even you don't really believe that do you??? the
israeli army don't value any life except their own. They'll gladely drop a 2
ton bomb on a crowed civillian building, they'll gladely fire misiles into a
crowded street and crowded Market. They'll gladely open fire on children
playing in the street!

Actually they also seem to value American life, well after all that's where
the money and their weapons ALL comes from.

>This ideal is not
> always achieved, of course -- but there's no general tendency in
> Israeli society to nihilistically glorify killing for the sake of mere
> killing, nor to celebrate killings of civilians, and there's no cult
> of child sacrifice. When we contrast this with the repellent little
> Cult of Death-Worship and Child Sacrifice which the Palestinians are
> building up through their perverse glorification and enthusiastic
> celebration of nihilistic immoral suicide terrorism crimes -- which
> have no goal and achieve nothing except to kill civilians for the sole
> and exclusive purpose of killing civilians -- then it's not hard to
> see which of the two sides is more terroristic!
>

Well I agree with you there, the Palestinian side on the surface would seem
to be more terroristic. But really what choice do they have??? They have
tried everything! and as long as the US continues to support this terrorist
regieme in israel, israel keeps stealing more land, building more illegal
settlements, telling more lies, killing more Palestinians, Killing more
peace activists...

Trust me if US armed the Palestinians half as well as they have the israelis
there would be no more suicide attacks.
or if israel listened to the International community and Law minus US and
went back to the 1967 borders and let the Palestinians create a independant
soverign state this nightmare would be over for everyone!

> It's a simple political fact in this country (whether you like it or
> not) that the U.S. government will be extremely reluctant to place
> strong effective pressure on Israel as long as the Palestinian
> authorities are not making any serious effort to crack down against
> such terrorism (but are in fact actively encouraging the
> aforementioned repellent little Cult of Death-Worship and Child
> Sacrifice which "honors" vile loathesome despicable immoral
> suicide-bomber terrorist criminals).
>
Well loosely translated, as long as the zionists continue to pull the
strings in EVERY corridor of power in America, US will continue to support
and fund the terrorist activities of israel.

> P.S. Are you actually "Caiaphas" pretending to be an Arab? -- he's
> the one who pointlessly cross-posts to the Methodist group.
>
I never said I was Caiaphas or an Arab.



Pastor Dave
2003-12-18 13:58:38 EST
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 18:48:35 -0000, "Yas"
<*m@127.0.0.1> spake thusly:

>"AnonMoos" <anonmoos@io.com> wrote in message
>news:3FE1DCFC.569B9FE3@io.com...
>> "Yas" <spam@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>>
>> > Example of israel's systematic Terrorism towards the Palestinian
>> > people that started long before the Intifada, long before Al Qaeda.
>> > -------- In April 2002
>>
>> How is April 2002 "long before" the current phoney pseudo-Intifada
>> (self-indulgent violence binge), and "long before Al Qaeda"?? I think
>> you need to look at a calendar, Yassie-baby!
>>
>
>There are countless examples israeli terrorism dating right back to early
>days of this "state". Of course plenty zionists terrorism in Palestine
>before that. I just happned to mention a more recent example that people may
>know this is still going on in their life time!!

And where do we find this, "Palestine State", before
1967, when Israel went to the West Bank?


--

Pastor Dave Raymond

"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16

Part of the message of salvation, is the Creation.
Believing in the Creator. When Paul preached to
those worshipping nature and said... "turn from
these vanities unto the living God, which made
heaven and earth and the sea and all things that
are therein:" - Acts 14:15 Paul believed it too.


AnonMoos
2003-12-19 01:25:21 EST
"Yas" <spam@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>"AnonMoos" <anonmoos@io.com> wrote in message
>news:3FE1DCFC.569B9FE3@io.com...

>> P.S. Are you actually "Caiaphas" pretending to be an Arab? -- he's
>> the one who pointlessly cross-posts to the Methodist group.

> I never said I was Caiaphas or an Arab.

You've pretty much implied that you're a Muslim, while Caiaphas claims
to be a Christian -- but you two cross-post to a suspiciously-similar
list of groups (including the strange cross-posting to the Methodist
group). I wonder if you two aren't just one individual who enjoys
playing both sides of the fence.

--
Some Qur'an quotes: 5:20 qaala muusaa 5:21 "yaa qawmi ´dkhuluu ´l-'arDa
´l-muqaddasata ´llatii kataba ´llaahu lakum" 17:104 waqulnaa ... libanii
'israa'iila "´skunuu ´l-'arDa" || In English: Moses said, "My people,
go into the Holy Land which God has assigned to you!" And we said to the
Children of Israel, "Inhabit the land!" http://symbolictruth.fateback.com/

Yas
2003-12-19 10:20:25 EST
"AnonMoos" <anonmoos@io.com> wrote in message
news:3FE299D1.D20EC682@io.com...
> "Yas" <spam@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> >"AnonMoos" <anonmoos@io.com> wrote in message
> >news:3FE1DCFC.569B9FE3@io.com...
>
> >> P.S. Are you actually "Caiaphas" pretending to be an Arab? -- he's
> >> the one who pointlessly cross-posts to the Methodist group.
>
> > I never said I was Caiaphas or an Arab.
>
> You've pretty much implied that you're a Muslim, while Caiaphas claims
> to be a Christian -- but you two cross-post to a suspiciously-similar
> list of groups (including the strange cross-posting to the Methodist
> group). I wonder if you two aren't just one individual who enjoys
> playing both sides of the fence.
>

Oh so Caiaphas is a person??? I don't think I've seen any of his/her posts
before.
By the way thanks for snipping all of my original post! :-)



AnonMoos
2003-12-19 10:45:02 EST
Yas wrote:
>"AnonMoos" <anonmoos@io.com> wrote in message
>news:3FE1DCFC.569B9FE3@io.com...
>>"Yas" <spam@127.0.0.1> wrote:

>>> Example of israel's systematic Terrorism towards the Palestinian
>>> people that started long before the Intifada, long before Al
>>> Qaeda. -------- In April 2002

>> How is April 2002 "long before" the current phoney pseudo-Intifada
>> (self-indulgent violence binge), and "long before Al Qaeda"??

> There are countless examples israeli terrorism dating right back to
> early days of this "state".

I think you need to distinguish between terrorism in its most
meaningful sense (i.e. intentionally seeking to hurt or kill civilians
as the main goal of an operation, without achieving any legitimate
military purpose) versus normal military tactics (in which some
civilians may be harmed as an unwanted and sometimes unavoidable
side-effect of an operation which has a legitimate military goal
according to the international law of war). If you use "terrorism"
according to this meaningful definition -- rather than as a mere
random propaganda epithet -- then inevitably it is the Arabs who have
a near-monopoly on terrrorism in the Arab-Israeli conflict (with the
exception of a rather small number of rogue lone wolves such as Baruch
Goldstein).

> Can you honestly sit there and tell me that destroying Palestinian
> Cultural Ministry, vandalising Palestinian children's work, smearing
> their fowl excrement on the walls and on office equipment amounts to
> "Professional military conduct"??

That's individual Israeli soldiers taking an opportunity to express
their contempt for Palestinians _after_ the Palestinians made it clear
that they collectvely support terroristic atrocities such as the
Sbarro pizzeria bombing (which was made the subject of an
commemorative "exhibition" glorifying it, at an-Najah University in
Nablus in 2001, complete with fake blood and fake Jewish bodies) --
see http://www.gamla.org.il/english/feature/sbarro.htm
http://www.chretiens-et-juifs.org/article.php?voir%5B%5D=635&voir%5B%5D=4820
etc. etc. ad nauseam magnam.

The April 2002 vandalism was unpleasant, but it wasn't terrorism, it
wasn't an organized and official act of the Israeli army, and Israelis
are not proud of it -- while for some reason, the Palestinians _are_
actually proud of their vile loathesome despicable immoral criminal
nihilistic suicide-terrorism attacks, which have no goal and achieve
nothing, except to kill civilians for the sole and exclusive purpose
of killing civilians, and which are human-rights violations and
war crimes under international law, as you can read in detail at the
web-sites of the neutral human rights groups at URLs such as
http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/11/isrl-pa1101.htm and
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/engMDE020032002!Open

> Well I agree with you there, the Palestinian side on the surface
> would seem to be more terroristic. But really what choice do they
> have???

They have the choice to refrain from engaging in intentionally and
deliberately immoral behavior and flaunting and glorying in its
blatant raw naked immorality. (That's not necessarily the way to gain
friends and influence people in your favor.) Really, terrorism has
benefitted the Palestinians only during one year, 1968, when it
succeeded in getting the Palestinians on the international political
map as being a separate force (rather than disconnected refugees under
the patronage of various different Arab states). In every year other
than 1968, the Palestinians have ended up hurting themselves more than
helping themselves through their use and advocacy of terrorism -- and
that's true of 2003, and has every indication of being true of 2004.

>> It's a simple political fact in this country (whether you like it
>> or not) that the U.S. government will be extremely reluctant to
>> place strong effective pressure on Israel as long as the
>> Palestinian authorities are not making any serious effort to crack
>> down against such terrorism (but are in fact actively encouraging
>> the aforementioned repellent little Cult of Death-Worship and Child
>> Sacrifice which "honors" vile loathesome despicable immoral
>> suicide-bomber terrorist criminals).

> Well loosely translated, as long as the zionists continue to pull
> the strings in EVERY corridor of power in America,

Blaming everything on the "Zionist conspiracy" sure does have the
effect of absolving Arabs from all blame, and has the effect that
Arabs don't need to self-critically examine their own actions and
take reponsibility for the results of their own behavior, doesn't
it now?

As I've said a number of times before in these groups, Israel hasn't
actually had all that many propaganda successes concerning specific
events over the years (on the contrary, Israel has suffered quite a
number of propaganda setbacks connected with specific events -- most
prominently the events of 1956 and 1982, and to a lesser degree on
several other occasions). But one area where Israel has been highly
successful in connecting with the U.S. public, is in giving the
general impression that the Israelis are "like us" or "like Americans"
in their values of democracy and political freedom, their desires to
work hard to build up a successful society and to live with 2.5 kids
in peace and prosperity, etc. etc. By contrast, the great Arab
failure with respect to opinion in the United States is that the Arabs
have conspicuously failed in convincing inhabitants of the U.S. that
individual Arabs are "like us", or share American habits or values,
etc. -- the basic American impression of Arabs is of a people who
haven't achieved any real accomplishments of their own that Americans
would respect (such as building up strong economies, advanced
technologies, progressive societies, or political democracies), and
yet seem to be eager to tear down and destroy the accomplishments that
others have achieved. Every time that success on this propaganda
front has ever seemed remotely within reach, along comes another
external event which blows away any impression of commonality between
Arabs and Americans, in the minds of average Americans -- Sept. 11th
is just yet another in a long line of such events which have alienated
U.S. public opinion.

The Palestinians would certainly have much more support in the United
States today if they hadn't taken to indulging themselves in a
violence binge of loathesome vile despicable nihilistic immoral
suicide terrorism crimes -- which achieve nothing and have no goal
other than to kill civilians for the sole and exclusive purpose of
killing civilians. That's certainly not the way to gain political
support for themselves in the USA! Frankly, since 9/11 most Americans
see little real moral difference between Osama bin Ladin's suicide
terrorists and Yasser bin Arafat's suicide terrorists.

--
&#1604;&#1575; &#1573;&#1604;&#1607; &#1604;&#1607;&#1605;
&#1573;&#1604;&#1575; &#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1608;&#1578;&#1548;
«&#1581;&#1605;&#1575;&#1587;» &#1585;&#1587;&#1608;&#1604;
&#1575;&#1604;&#1605;&#1608;&#1578; (The death-worshipping cult)
Murderers are not martyrs! http://symbolictruth.fateback.com/

AnonMoos
2003-12-19 11:05:02 EST
Yas wrote:
>"AnonMoos" <anonmoos@io.com> wrote in message
>news:3FE299D1.D20EC682@io.com...
>>"Yas" <spam@127.0.0.1> wrote:
>>>"AnonMoos" <anonmoos@io.com> wrote in message
>>>news:3FE1DCFC.569B9FE3@io.com...

>>>> P.S. Are you actually "Caiaphas" pretending to be an Arab? --
>>>> he's the one who pointlessly cross-posts to the Methodist group.

>>> I never said I was Caiaphas or an Arab.

>> You've pretty much implied that you're a Muslim, while Caiaphas
>> claims to be a Christian -- but you two cross-post to a
>> suspiciously-similar list of groups (including the strange
>> cross-posting to the Methodist group). I wonder if you two aren't
>> just one individual who enjoys playing both sides of the fence.

> Oh so Caiaphas is a person??? I don't think I've seen any of his/her
> posts before.

I don't see why not -- you post to much the same groups, and I don't
think that anyone else other than you two habitually sets up a
cross-posting between "alt.religion.christian.methodist" and
"soc.culture.israel".

> By the way thanks for snipping all of my original post! :-)

I wanted to deal with that one sentence without having to deal with
the whole rest of the post at the same time -- but see my message
URL:<news:3FE31CFE.45F9B54@io.com> for a reply to the rest of your
message.

--
Some Qur'an quotes: 5:20 qaala muusaa 5:21 "yaa qawmi ´dkhuluu ´l-'arDa
´l-muqaddasata ´llatii kataba ´llaahu lakum" 17:104 waqulnaa ... libanii
'israa'iila "´skunuu ´l-'arDa" || In English: Moses said, "My people,
go into the Holy Land which God has assigned to you!" And we said to the
Children of Israel, "Inhabit the land!" http://symbolictruth.fateback.com/

David
2003-12-19 19:29:28 EST
x-no-archive: yes



Yas wrote:
>
> Example of israel's systematic Terrorism towards the Palestinian people that
> started long before the Intifada, long before Al Qaeda.
>
> ------------------------
>
> In April 2002, the troops and tanks of the Israeli army attacked Ramallah
> and other towns in occupied Palestine. This was reported as an 'incursion'
> to stop terrorism. In fact it was also an attack on civilian life: on
> schools, offices, clinics, theatres, radio stations. This systematic
> vandalism is typical of one of the longest military occupations in modern
> times.
>
> Even the Culture Ministry was destroyed. The director, Liana Badr - Director
> of the Palestinian Ministry of Culture and a distinguished novelist and
> filmmaker - showed the devastation to John Pilger shortly after it had
> happened.
>
> In the administration room files were strewn over the floor and all office
> equipment had been deliberately vandalised.
>
> This was a place which promoted Palestinian cultural projects - film making,
> book exhibitions and exhibitions of childrens' work, which had been
> effectively destroyed by Israeli troops. Liana Badr explains:
>
> "Now we don't have anything to begin with, we don't have computers,
> equipment, furniture. And we have this feeling of humiliation".
>
> Elsewhere in the Ministry, Israeli soldiers had smeared their own excrement
> on the walls and on office equipment and vandalised an exhibition of
> paintings made by Palestinian children.
>
> "They have destroyed everything", says Liana, "They don't respect anything,
> they just want to come and destroy and this is the systematic terrorism of
> the Israeli state."


Oh, goody! Another ignorant anti-Semitic PUTZ!! Happy Hanukkah and
Merry Christmas. And may your daughters become so famous that every cop
in town knows them well.
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