Bible Discussion: The Creational Point Of View

The Creational Point Of View
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Roadrunner
2003-11-27 04:15:33 EST
The creational point of view:
http://www.algonet.se/~tourtel/hovind_seminar/seminar_introduction.html


Thore Schmechtig
2003-11-27 12:49:09 EST
> The creational point of view:
> http://www.algonet.se/~tourtel/hovind_seminar/seminar_introduction.html

...and the truth about it:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/howgood.html



UNWRITTEN RULES OF FUNDAMENTALISM

1. "I'm right and you are wrong".
2. Never admit that you are wrong, even if you really are.
3. When you have nothing to say, hurl insults.
4. Regard and portray your own violence, whether physical,
psychological,
or verbal, at all times as defensive
5. Be prepared at all times to lie and bluster, particularly when backed
into a corner in an argument
6. Never accept responsibility for any mess you have personally caused.
7. When you are forced to admit to an error, regard the whole process of
error and correction as part of God's personal plan for you and not as a
something for which you should apologise retract or make amends except
verbally and secretly to God himself
8. Always see yourself and you personal actions as part of God's plans
for
the world. Recognise that even your errors are just part of Gods will
for
the betterment of mankind.
9.Profess humility but avoid the actual experience of it.
10.Refuse to take in information that differs from your own view and
oppose all such information through classification of such information
in
a derogatory and simplistic manner(eg by categorising it as left wing
propaganda)
11.Refuse to accept that truth is not black and white; that reality is
complex and there are shades of grey
12.Refuse to forgive anyone else for anything unless you purport to
forgive on behalf of other people unconnected with you for whom you
don't
have that right anyhow.


David Wise
2003-11-27 13:14:41 EST
"Roadrunner" <pegasus@privat.utfors.se> wrote in message news:<%ijxb.39569$dP1.147808@newsc.telia.net>...
> The creational point of view:
> http://www.algonet.se/~tourtel/hovind_seminar/seminar_introduction.html

We've already read Hovind's nonsensical lies and have been commenting
on them heavily and trying to discuss it with you while you have been
dodging the truth about Hovind. Why are you so in lust with that guy?
Is it a "Richie Cunningham" fetish (he does look uncomfortably like a
younger Ron Howard with hair)?

When are you going to defend Hovind's "digital watch found in a gold
mine" analogy AS YOU HAD SAID YOU WOULD? Are you trying to emulate
your idol by engaging in lies and deception as well?

And when are you going to SHOW US that Hovind's solar-mass-loss claim
and his "the earth's rotation is slowing down" claim are really true?
I showed you that the facts clear show that those claims are dead
wrong and you claim that our preconceptions are clouding our minds.
So both I and several others have told you to SHOW US that those
claims are really true. SHOW US!

And you keep dodging the REAL ISSUE in "creation/evolution" (which
itself is creationist invention to create a controversy where none
actually exists), which is the role of truthfulness in "creation
science" (that which Hovind is hawking) and the effects of using
demonstrably false claims. Why are you so afraid of the real issue?

And do please complete your work of transcribing Hovind's tapes and
posting them. It's so much better to search through the transcript
than to have to sit there and listen to that moron. And it's a lot
easier on our stomachs.


David Wise
2003-11-27 13:43:08 EST
"Roadrunner" <pegasus@privat.utfors.se> wrote in message news:<%ijxb.39569$dP1.147808@newsc.telia.net>...
> The creational point of view:
> http://www.algonet.se/~tourtel/hovind_seminar/seminar_introduction.html

And what is your response to the cases which demonstrate how "balanced
treatment" REALLY works: creationist false claims, including
misrepresentations about what evolution is, are presented and the
students are urged to choose between the Creator and "atheistic
evolution", i.e., they are compelled to believe, which is an act of
proselytizing at worst and of misinformation at best?

You requested that I inform you of what had happened in Ray Baird's
elementary school class in Livermore, Calif, and I provided you with
that information. Plus information and links about other "balanced
treatment" classes.

What is your response? Please make it a reasoned response instead of
your usual clap-trap.


Pastor Dave
2003-11-27 14:19:23 EST
On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 18:43:08 +0000 (UTC),
d*1@aol.com (David Wise) wrote:

>"Roadrunner" <pegasus@privat.utfors.se> wrote in message news:<%ijxb.39569$dP1.147808@newsc.telia.net>...
>> The creational point of view:
>> http://www.algonet.se/~tourtel/hovind_seminar/seminar_introduction.html
>
>And what is your response to the cases which demonstrate how "balanced
>treatment" REALLY works: creationist false claims, including
>misrepresentations about what evolution is, are presented and the
>students are urged to choose between the Creator and "atheistic
>evolution", i.e., they are compelled to believe, which is an act of
>proselytizing at worst and of misinformation at best?

Since evolutionists demand that God be left out of
anything scientific, then they are bound to explain how
life arose from non-living matter, all by itself.


--

Pastor Dave Raymond

"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16

www.drdino.com


Red Dragon
2003-11-28 10:27:26 EST
Life from non-living matter took a long imcomprehensible period of time of
One thousand million years.
This history is recorded in the Sedimentary Rock of the Grand Canyon and
geological rock sections elsewhere on earth.
All new scientific discovery in Biology only strengthen the Evolution
theory.
I read the Pope is also an evolutionist.

Khoon.


>
> Since evolutionists demand that God be left out of
> anything scientific, then they are bound to explain how
> life arose from non-living matter, all by itself.
>
>
> --
>
> Pastor Dave Raymond
>
> "As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
> to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
> thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
> before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16
>
> www.drdino.com
>



Pastor Dave
2003-11-28 18:01:36 EST
On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 23:27:26 +0800, "Red Dragon"
<*k@pc.jaring.my> wrote:

>Life from non-living matter took a long imcomprehensible period of time of
>One thousand million years.
>This history is recorded in the Sedimentary Rock of the Grand Canyon and
>geological rock sections elsewhere on earth.
>All new scientific discovery in Biology only strengthen the Evolution
>theory.

You have made false statements, unless you can back
them up. There is absolutely no record of life arising
from non-living matter, all by itself.


--

Pastor Dave Raymond

"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16

Red Dragon
2003-11-29 10:01:03 EST
Yes there is record. The record is registered in very ancient Sedimentary
rock dated about 3 billion years ago. These rock type are fine grained
Chert on the shore of Lake Superior. In it are embeded fossils of the
remains of microscopic organism of bacteria-like structure. Much research
was done by American Stanley Tyler on this discovery..
Later similar structure were discovered in the Ural Mountains by Russian
Paleontologist Timofeev supporting the claim of Tyler. Since then, much
research were done in the Ancient PreCambrian Rock in Europe and Australia,
all contributing to a clearer picture of the Origin of Life Forms in
Primordial Earth.

To understand fully the transformation from non-living molecular structure
such as interaction of Amino acids, nucleic acids, Methane, Nitrogen, CO2
etc to self replicating protein molecular chains, one need to go indept
into Molecular Biology. The transformation happened in steps than span a
period of a few hundred million years. The conclusion is that life on
Earth are derived from a Universal Common Ancestor.

Khoon.

>
> You have made false statements, unless you can back
> them up. There is absolutely no record of life arising
> from non-living matter, all by itself.
>



Pastor Dave
2003-11-29 10:49:30 EST
On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 23:01:03 +0800, "Red Dragon"
<*k@pc.jaring.my> wrote:

>Yes there is record. The record is registered in very ancient Sedimentary
>rock dated about 3 billion years ago. These rock type are fine grained
>Chert on the shore of Lake Superior. In it are embeded fossils of the
>remains of microscopic organism of bacteria-like structure. Much research
>was done by American Stanley Tyler on this discovery..
>Later similar structure were discovered in the Ural Mountains by Russian
>Paleontologist Timofeev supporting the claim of Tyler. Since then, much
>research were done in the Ancient PreCambrian Rock in Europe and Australia,
>all contributing to a clearer picture of the Origin of Life Forms in
>Primordial Earth.
>
>To understand fully the transformation from non-living molecular structure
>such as interaction of Amino acids, nucleic acids, Methane, Nitrogen, CO2
>etc to self replicating protein molecular chains, one need to go indept
>into Molecular Biology. The transformation happened in steps than span a
>period of a few hundred million years. The conclusion is that life on
>Earth are derived from a Universal Common Ancestor.

Once again, you have made statements, without evidence.
You have told us what you BELIEVE. You have not
demonstrated it to be true. Bacteria has existed since
the Creation. What is your point?


--

Pastor Dave Raymond

"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16

The Bible says that death came by sin and sin came
by Adam (Rom 5:12; 1 Cor 15:21-22).

Evolution says lots of things lived and died before
Adam and Eve got here and therefore attempts to rule
out what the Bible says.

One or the other is right, but they can't both
be right.


Earle Jones
2003-11-30 00:26:17 EST
In article <bq5dio$1u2iar$1@ID-87341.news.uni-berlin.de>,
"Thore Schmechtig" <WRITETOcommoner@carcosa.de> wrote:

> > The creational point of view:
> > http://www.algonet.se/~tourtel/hovind_seminar/seminar_introduction.html
>
> ...and the truth about it:
>
> http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/howgood.html
>
>
>
> UNWRITTEN RULES OF FUNDAMENTALISM
>
> 1. "I'm right and you are wrong".
> 2. Never admit that you are wrong, even if you really are.
> 3. When you have nothing to say, hurl insults.
> 4. Regard and portray your own violence, whether physical,
> psychological,
> or verbal, at all times as defensive
> 5. Be prepared at all times to lie and bluster, particularly when backed
> into a corner in an argument
> 6. Never accept responsibility for any mess you have personally caused.
> 7. When you are forced to admit to an error, regard the whole process of
> error and correction as part of God's personal plan for you and not as a
> something for which you should apologise retract or make amends except
> verbally and secretly to God himself
> 8. Always see yourself and you personal actions as part of God's plans
> for
> the world. Recognise that even your errors are just part of Gods will
> for
> the betterment of mankind.
> 9.Profess humility but avoid the actual experience of it.
> 10.Refuse to take in information that differs from your own view and
> oppose all such information through classification of such information
> in
> a derogatory and simplistic manner(eg by categorising it as left wing
> propaganda)
> 11.Refuse to accept that truth is not black and white; that reality is
> complex and there are shades of grey
> 12.Refuse to forgive anyone else for anything unless you purport to
> forgive on behalf of other people unconnected with you for whom you
> don't
> have that right anyhow.
>

*
Are these really the "Unwritten Rules of Fundamentalism" or the
"Unwritten Rules of Scientology"?

earle
*

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