Bible Discussion: Ravens Should Be Extinct According To Genesis-The Dove Almost Bit The Dust Too

Ravens Should Be Extinct According To Genesis-The Dove Almost Bit The Dust Too
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Sharon
2003-11-25 00:45:14 EST
> > Tree Worship of the Ancient World - Anointing Oil of the Olive Tree
> > The Tree of Life, et cetera
> >I have heard that the olive tree never dies. It will live on and on and
> >on.
> >The only way you can kill it is to rip the roots out of the ground and
> >burn
> >them.
>
>
> ED: Goes back to the myth of Noah's Flood, the only thing left alive was a
> fresh olive branch found in the beak of a dove that Noah had sent from the
> ark, thus an olive true must have survived Noah's Flood and a mile of
> sediment being laid down all over the earth. HA HA HA

I have always wondered about this, since the Raven was an unclean bird...
why would Noah risk losing the pair? The male raven of the pair sent out? Or
the female thrown out? Either way, there's no mention that the Raven came
back. So it's mate would have been alone, and it doesn't qualify among the
creatures brought in by sevens, because it is an unclean meat.

Gn:8:7: And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the
waters were dried up from off the earth. (KJV)

That was a really busy bird... does it say it ever returned to the ark? No.

Clean and Unclean Meats
... Clean and Unclean Food. ... since you are to detest them, you must not
eat their meat and you ...
the red kite, any kind of black kite, any kind of raven, the horned owl ...
http://truth.fateback.com/unclean.html

Gn:6:19: And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt
thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male
and female. (KJV)

Gn:6:20: Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every
creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come
unto thee, to keep them alive. (KJV)

Gn:7:2: Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and
his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his
female. (KJV)

Gn:7:9: There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the
female, as God had commanded Noah. (KJV)

Gn:7:15: And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh,
wherein is the breath of life. (KJV)

http://edwardtbabinski.us
Creation vs. Evolution, Intelligent Design, et cetera



Ninure Saunders
2003-11-25 09:23:34 EST
In article <3fc2ec8a_9@athenanews.com>, "sharon" <....@...com> wrote:

-> > Tree Worship of the Ancient World - Anointing Oil of the Olive Tree
-> > The Tree of Life, et cetera
-> >I have heard that the olive tree never dies. It will live on and on and
-> >on.
-> >The only way you can kill it is to rip the roots out of the ground and
-> >burn
-> >them.
->
->
-> ED: Goes back to the myth of Noah's Flood, the only thing left alive was a
-> fresh olive branch found in the beak of a dove that Noah had sent from the
-> ark, thus an olive true must have survived Noah's Flood and a mile of
-> sediment being laid down all over the earth. HA HA HA
-
-I have always wondered about this, since the Raven was an unclean bird...
-why would Noah risk losing the pair? The male raven of the pair sent out? Or
-the female thrown out? Either way, there's no mention that the Raven came
-back. So it's mate would have been alone, and it doesn't qualify among the
-creatures brought in by sevens, because it is an unclean meat.
-
-Gn:8:7: And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the
-waters were dried up from off the earth. (KJV)
-
-That was a really busy bird... does it say it ever returned to the ark? No.
-
But if it didn't, why do you suppose that no eggs had been laid during
that time?

Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
http://Rainbow-Christian.tk

The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk

My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk

My Online Diary
http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org

To send e-mail, remove nohate from address

Sharon
2003-11-25 10:24:39 EST
> Gn:8:7: And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the
> waters were dried up from off the earth. (KJV)

I forgot to mention this. It says the raven goes to and fro until the waters
dry up.
Followed by

Gn:8:9: But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she
returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole
earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him
into the ark. (KJV)

If the Dove couldn't find a place to rest, then neither could the Raven,
which went out before the Dove... common sense tells everyone, the Raven
would have eventually given up on flight, and drowned in the waters. It
states only the Raven goes to and fro, and doesn't return. Which is
unreasonable, unless the Biblical writers know something that I don't about
"Super Flight-Longevity of the Raven" So, that leaves one Raven without a
mate. Ravens should be extinct... because there were only two of this
unclean bird, as commanded by YHWH... and one drowned in the sea.

wait a minute "The Raven that was not" -and- "The Raven that was and still
is"...

Ex:9:6: And the Lord did that thing on the morrow, and all the cattle of
Egypt died: but of the cattle of the children of Israel died not one. (KJV)

All the cattle of Egypt died, but the Egyptians yet had cattle to cause to
flee

Ex:9:20: He that feared the word of the Lord among the servants of Pharaoh
made his servants and his cattle flee into the houses: (KJV)



"sharon" <*...@....com> wrote in message news:3fc2ec8a_9@athenanews.com...
> > > Tree Worship of the Ancient World - Anointing Oil of the Olive Tree
> > > The Tree of Life, et cetera
> > >I have heard that the olive tree never dies. It will live on and on and
> > >on.
> > >The only way you can kill it is to rip the roots out of the ground and
> > >burn
> > >them.
> >
> >
> > ED: Goes back to the myth of Noah's Flood, the only thing left alive was
a
> > fresh olive branch found in the beak of a dove that Noah had sent from
the
> > ark, thus an olive true must have survived Noah's Flood and a mile of
> > sediment being laid down all over the earth. HA HA HA
>
> I have always wondered about this, since the Raven was an unclean bird...
> why would Noah risk losing the pair? The male raven of the pair sent out?
Or
> the female thrown out? Either way, there's no mention that the Raven came
> back. So it's mate would have been alone, and it doesn't qualify among the
> creatures brought in by sevens, because it is an unclean meat.
>
> Gn:8:7: And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the
> waters were dried up from off the earth. (KJV)
>
> That was a really busy bird... does it say it ever returned to the ark?
No.
>
> Clean and Unclean Meats
> ... Clean and Unclean Food. ... since you are to detest them, you must not
> eat their meat and you ...
> the red kite, any kind of black kite, any kind of raven, the horned owl
...
> http://truth.fateback.com/unclean.html
>
> Gn:6:19: And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt
> thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male
> and female. (KJV)
>
> Gn:6:20: Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of
every
> creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come
> unto thee, to keep them alive. (KJV)
>
> Gn:7:2: Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male
and
> his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his
> female. (KJV)
>
> Gn:7:9: There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the
> female, as God had commanded Noah. (KJV)
>
> Gn:7:15: And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all
flesh,
> wherein is the breath of life. (KJV)
>
> http://edwardtbabinski.us
> Creation vs. Evolution, Intelligent Design, et cetera
>
>



Sharon
2003-11-25 12:11:46 EST

"Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:RainbowChristiannohate-2511030836350001@h-68-164-5-210.chcgilgm.dynamic
.covad.net...
> In article <3fc2ec8a_9@athenanews.com>, "sharon" <....@...com> wrote:
>
> -> > Tree Worship of the Ancient World - Anointing Oil of the Olive Tree
> -> > The Tree of Life, et cetera
> -> >I have heard that the olive tree never dies. It will live on and on
and
> -> >on.
> -> >The only way you can kill it is to rip the roots out of the ground and
> -> >burn
> -> >them.
> ->
> ->
> -> ED: Goes back to the myth of Noah's Flood, the only thing left alive
was a
> -> fresh olive branch found in the beak of a dove that Noah had sent from
the
> -> ark, thus an olive true must have survived Noah's Flood and a mile of
> -> sediment being laid down all over the earth. HA HA HA
> -
> -I have always wondered about this, since the Raven was an unclean bird...
> -why would Noah risk losing the pair? The male raven of the pair sent out?
Or
> -the female thrown out? Either way, there's no mention that the Raven came
> -back. So it's mate would have been alone, and it doesn't qualify among
the
> -creatures brought in by sevens, because it is an unclean meat.
> -
> -Gn:8:7: And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the
> -waters were dried up from off the earth. (KJV)
> -
> -That was a really busy bird... does it say it ever returned to the ark?
No.
> -
> But if it didn't, why do you suppose that no eggs had been laid during
> that time?

There's no proof or mention of offspring either on the ark. Aside of the
contradictions which exist in the numbers commanded to be brought on the
ark --- some verses simply state "bring them in by twos" and another verse
says specifically "by sevens if they're clean"... it's a contradiction often
discussed.

But to further complicate what the Bible is saying --- Creation Scientists
have enough trouble fitting in all the species, mathematically, in pairs, or
sevens into this ark. If you want to bring in *potential offspring* into
this unbelievably already-cramped space of all the species on earth, being
fitted in a tiny boat --- then go ahead. :)



>
> Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
> http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
>
> The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
> http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
>
> My Yahoo Group
> http://Ninure.tk
>
> My Online Diary
> http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
> -
> Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
> http://www.MCCchurch.org
>
> To send e-mail, remove nohate from address



Libertarius
2003-11-25 15:19:09 EST


sharon wrote:

> > Gn:8:7: And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the
> > waters were dried up from off the earth. (KJV)
>
> I forgot to mention this. It says the raven goes to and fro until the waters
> dry up.
> Followed by
>
> Gn:8:9: But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she
> returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole
> earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him
> into the ark. (KJV)
>
> If the Dove couldn't find a place to rest, then neither could the Raven,
> which went out before the Dove... common sense tells everyone, the Raven
> would have eventually given up on flight, and drowned in the waters. It
> states only the Raven goes to and fro, and doesn't return. Which is
> unreasonable, unless the Biblical writers know something that I don't about
> "Super Flight-Longevity of the Raven" So, that leaves one Raven without a
> mate. Ravens should be extinct... because there were only two of this
> unclean bird, as commanded by YHWH... and one drowned in the sea.
>
> wait a minute "The Raven that was not" -and- "The Raven that was and still
> is"...
>
> Ex:9:6: And the Lord did that thing on the morrow, and all the cattle of
> Egypt died: but of the cattle of the children of Israel died not one. (KJV)
>
> All the cattle of Egypt died, but the Egyptians yet had cattle to cause to
> flee
>
> Ex:9:20: He that feared the word of the Lord among the servants of Pharaoh
> made his servants and his cattle flee into the houses: (KJV)

===>Imagine a home where the cattle roam...
No wonder those stories are full of BS.


Libertarius
2003-11-25 15:31:37 EST


sharon wrote:

> "Ninure Saunders" <RainbowChristiannohate@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:RainbowChristiannohate-2511030836350001@h-68-164-5-210.chcgilgm.dynamic
> .covad.net...
> > In article <3fc2ec8a_9@athenanews.com>, "sharon" <....@...com> wrote:
> >
> > -> > Tree Worship of the Ancient World - Anointing Oil of the Olive Tree
> > -> > The Tree of Life, et cetera
> > -> >I have heard that the olive tree never dies. It will live on and on
> and
> > -> >on.
> > -> >The only way you can kill it is to rip the roots out of the ground and
> > -> >burn
> > -> >them.
> > ->
> > ->
> > -> ED: Goes back to the myth of Noah's Flood, the only thing left alive
> was a
> > -> fresh olive branch found in the beak of a dove that Noah had sent from
> the
> > -> ark, thus an olive true must have survived Noah's Flood and a mile of
> > -> sediment being laid down all over the earth. HA HA HA
> > -
> > -I have always wondered about this, since the Raven was an unclean bird...
> > -why would Noah risk losing the pair? The male raven of the pair sent out?
> Or
> > -the female thrown out? Either way, there's no mention that the Raven came
> > -back. So it's mate would have been alone, and it doesn't qualify among
> the
> > -creatures brought in by sevens, because it is an unclean meat.
> > -
> > -Gn:8:7: And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the
> > -waters were dried up from off the earth. (KJV)
> > -
> > -That was a really busy bird... does it say it ever returned to the ark?
> No.
> > -
> > But if it didn't, why do you suppose that no eggs had been laid during
> > that time?
>
> There's no proof or mention of offspring either on the ark. Aside of the
> contradictions which exist in the numbers commanded to be brought on the
> ark --- some verses simply state "bring them in by twos" and another verse
> says specifically "by sevens if they're clean"... it's a contradiction often
> discussed.

===>It is the proven conflation of two different Flood stories.
SEE: "The Two Flood Stories,
A Comparison of the J and P Accounts
Translation and notes by Henry E. Neufeld at
http://energion.com/rpp/flood.html




Quibbler
2003-11-25 15:34:21 EST
In article <RainbowChristiannohate-2511030836350001@h-68-164-5-
210.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net>, RainbowChristiannohate@hotmail.com
says...
> In article <3fc2ec8a_9@athenanews.com>, "sharon" <....@...com> wrote:
>
> -> > Tree Worship of the Ancient World - Anointing Oil of the Olive Tree
> -> > The Tree of Life, et cetera
> -> >I have heard that the olive tree never dies. It will live on and on and
> -> >on.
> -> >The only way you can kill it is to rip the roots out of the ground and
> -> >burn
> -> >them.
> ->
> ->
> -> ED: Goes back to the myth of Noah's Flood, the only thing left alive was a
> -> fresh olive branch found in the beak of a dove that Noah had sent from the
> -> ark, thus an olive true must have survived Noah's Flood and a mile of
> -> sediment being laid down all over the earth. HA HA HA
> -
> -I have always wondered about this, since the Raven was an unclean bird...
> -why would Noah risk losing the pair? The male raven of the pair sent out? Or
> -the female thrown out? Either way, there's no mention that the Raven came
> -back. So it's mate would have been alone, and it doesn't qualify among the
> -creatures brought in by sevens, because it is an unclean meat.
> -
> -Gn:8:7: And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the
> -waters were dried up from off the earth. (KJV)
> -
> -That was a really busy bird... does it say it ever returned to the ark? No.
> -
> But if it didn't, why do you suppose that no eggs had been laid during
> that time?

Better hope the egg was a male then and that it grew up and fucked its
mother.


--
____________________________________________________
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins

Quibbler
2003-11-25 17:26:59 EST
In article <3fc2ec8a_9@athenanews.com>, *...@....com says...
> > > Tree Worship of the Ancient World - Anointing Oil of the Olive Tree
> > > The Tree of Life, et cetera
> > >I have heard that the olive tree never dies. It will live on and on and
> > >on.
> > >The only way you can kill it is to rip the roots out of the ground and
> > >burn
> > >them.
> >
> >
> > ED: Goes back to the myth of Noah's Flood, the only thing left alive was a
> > fresh olive branch found in the beak of a dove that Noah had sent from the
> > ark, thus an olive true must have survived Noah's Flood and a mile of
> > sediment being laid down all over the earth. HA HA HA
>
> I have always wondered about this, since the Raven was an unclean bird...
> why would Noah risk losing the pair?

For that matter, why were any "unclean" animals taken, or for that matter
created in the first place?

> The male raven of the pair sent out?

Previous mythology suggests that it was the male raven because, as
ridiculous as it sounds, Noah wanted to "get busy" with Mrs. Raven.


> Or
> the female thrown out? Either way, there's no mention that the Raven came
> back. So it's mate would have been alone, and it doesn't qualify among the
> creatures brought in by sevens, because it is an unclean meat.
>
> Gn:8:7: And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the
> waters were dried up from off the earth. (KJV)

Yeah, I thought that meant he constantly made trips back and forth to the
Ark.

>
> That was a really busy bird... does it say it ever returned to the ark? No.

It doesn't specifically say that he came back. Then again, the bible
doesn't say lots of things.


--
____________________________________________________
Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
"It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins

Sharon
2003-11-25 17:54:04 EST

"quibbler" <quibbler247@atyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1a2d851f9b910c029896c5@news.cis.dfn.de...
> In article <3fc2ec8a_9@athenanews.com>, *...@....com says...
> > Gn:8:7: And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until
the
> > waters were dried up from off the earth. (KJV)
>
> Yeah, I thought that meant he constantly made trips back and forth to the
> Ark.

Nah... sounds pretty good for an explanation, but it doesn't add up with why
Noah would then send out the dove, if the Raven was doing a good enough job
(Noah lost his raven, and then took a chance on a Dove --- Use a Homing
Pigeon dummy! (Or do those live in Mesopotamia?) I take to and fro in the
Bible, to mean "wandering about" --- not coming back, and sent again.

As Libertarius concluded, it's all a lot of bs myth anyway.

There was no Raven. There was no dove. There was no ark. and, there were no
dinosaurs on the Ark. (As the YEC would probably try to say).

> Quibbler (quibbler247atyahoo.com)
> "It is fashionable to wax apocalyptic about the
> threat to humanity posed by the AIDS virus, 'mad cow'
> disease, and many others, but I think a case can be
> made that faith is one of the world's great evils,
> comparable to the smallpox virus but harder to
> eradicate." -- Richard Dawkins

That brought to mind about some religious leaders who'd say AIDS was sent
from God, to punish homosexuals?

I guess Small Pox was sent from God to punish Indians for being Indians.
(From an article Ed Babinski wrote on Christian Intolerance)

"...On average two thirds of the native population were killed by
colonist-imported smallpox before violence began. This was a great sign of
"the marvelous goodness and providence of God" to the Christians of course,
e.g. the Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony wrote in 1634, as "for the
natives, they are near all dead of the smallpox, so as the Lord hath cleared
our title to what we possess."



Rick
2003-11-25 21:27:02 EST
Common sense would tell you that the raven kept returning to the ark until
all the water had dried up. The phrase 'to and fro' means 'back and forth'.
Obviously the raven kept returning to the ark until the water had gone.
When the water was gone, the raven stayed in the ark. Conversly one could
assume that Noah sent the dove to find out why the raven didn't return. If
the dove returned with plant material in its beak, then we can assume that
the raven had found a place to rest.

"sharon" <*...@....com> wrote in message news:3fc2ec8a_9@athenanews.com...
> > > Tree Worship of the Ancient World - Anointing Oil of the Olive Tree
> > > The Tree of Life, et cetera
> > >I have heard that the olive tree never dies. It will live on and on and
> > >on.
> > >The only way you can kill it is to rip the roots out of the ground and
> > >burn
> > >them.
> >
> >
> > ED: Goes back to the myth of Noah's Flood, the only thing left alive was
a
> > fresh olive branch found in the beak of a dove that Noah had sent from
the
> > ark, thus an olive true must have survived Noah's Flood and a mile of
> > sediment being laid down all over the earth. HA HA HA
>
> I have always wondered about this, since the Raven was an unclean bird...
> why would Noah risk losing the pair? The male raven of the pair sent out?
Or
> the female thrown out? Either way, there's no mention that the Raven came
> back. So it's mate would have been alone, and it doesn't qualify among the
> creatures brought in by sevens, because it is an unclean meat.
>
> Gn:8:7: And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the
> waters were dried up from off the earth. (KJV)
>
> That was a really busy bird... does it say it ever returned to the ark?
No.
>
> Clean and Unclean Meats
> ... Clean and Unclean Food. ... since you are to detest them, you must not
> eat their meat and you ...
> the red kite, any kind of black kite, any kind of raven, the horned owl
...
> http://truth.fateback.com/unclean.html
>
> Gn:6:19: And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt
> thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male
> and female. (KJV)
>
> Gn:6:20: Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of
every
> creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come
> unto thee, to keep them alive. (KJV)
>
> Gn:7:2: Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male
and
> his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his
> female. (KJV)
>
> Gn:7:9: There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the
> female, as God had commanded Noah. (KJV)
>
> Gn:7:15: And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all
flesh,
> wherein is the breath of life. (KJV)
>
> http://edwardtbabinski.us
> Creation vs. Evolution, Intelligent Design, et cetera
>
>


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