Bible Discussion: Christianity And Women

Christianity And Women
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IknowHimDoYou
2003-11-18 11:47:09 EST
Christianity and Women*

"The birth of Jesus was the turning point in the history of woman." said
Cervantes. And G. Morrison noted, "Whatever else our Lord did, He
immeasureably exalted womanhood." Yet neirther Christ no the early
Christians ever preached an outright revolution. Rather, it was His
example that His followers reflected in their relationships with women,
raising their dignity, freedom, and rights to a level previously unknown
in any culture. We must remember how badly women were once treated by the
Greeks, Romans, Hindus, and Chinese, where paganism existed. Before
Christianity arrieved, there was little freedom or dignity to women in any
pagan society. Where else do women have more freedom, opportunity, and
human worth than in countries that have been highly influnced by the
Christian ethic?

Certainly there is mistreatment of women everywhere, even here in the US
but up til now it was the exception. Today we see the encroachment of
pornography, abortion, prostitution, wife abuse and other practices let in
by the God-haters, atheists and their fellow travelers including Hollywood
the sewer.

Icarus
2003-11-18 12:28:59 EST
IknowHimDoYou wrote:
...
> Certainly there is mistreatment of women everywhere, even here
> in the US but up til now it was the exception. Today we see
> the encroachment of pornography...

Can you justify the implication that pornography necessarily
equates to mistreatment of women? In what way are they
mistreated?



Elmer Bataitis
2003-11-18 13:20:14 EST
IknowNtohingDoYou wrote:

> Christianity and Women*

> "The birth of Jesus was the turning point in the history of woman." said
> Cervantes.

He is wrong. It was the invention of the birth control pill.

**********************************************************
Elmer Bataitis "Hot dog! Smooch city here I come!"
Planetech Services -Hobbes
585-442-2884
"Proudly wearing and displaying, as a badge of honor,
the straight jacket of conventional thought." - C.
Cagle
**********************************************************

IknowHimDoYou
2003-11-18 15:06:29 EST
In article <bpdkpq$1lgj9n$1@ID-165613.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Icarus"
<icarus_uk@email.com> wrote:

> IknowHimDoYou wrote:
> ...
> > Certainly there is mistreatment of women everywhere, even here
> > in the US but up til now it was the exception. Today we see
> > the encroachment of pornography...
>
> Can you justify the implication that pornography necessarily
> equates to mistreatment of women? In what way are they
> mistreated?
_______________________________________________

For one thing they are demeaned.

For another they become prey for sex fiends who are satuarated with this
garbage.For another-how would you like your mother's photos shown like
this, or perhaps your sister's or your wife's?

Thore Schmechtig
2003-11-18 16:13:30 EST
> We must remember how badly women were once treated by the
> Greeks, Romans, Hindus, and Chinese, where paganism existed.

Oh yeah, sure. All the pagans committed the mortal sin of respecting
and honoring women, before christianity came with the glorious benefit
of the witch-burnings et al.
Again the fundie quoting drone IKHDY (correctly translated as
I-know-nothing-except-how-to-parrot-what-my-F├╝hrer-tells-me)
demonstrates its utter ignorance.

UNWRITTEN RULES OF FUNDAMENTALISM

1. "I'm right and you are wrong".
2. Never admit that you are wrong, even if you really are.
3. When you have nothing to say, hurl insults.
4. Regard and portray your own violence, whether physical,
psychological,
or verbal, at all times as defensive
5. Be prepared at all times to lie and bluster, particularly when backed
into a corner in an argument
6. Never accept responsibility for any mess you have personally caused.
7. When you are forced to admit to an error, regard the whole process of
error and correction as part of God's personal plan for you and not as a
something for which you should apologise retract or make amends except
verbally and secretly to God himself
8. Always see yourself and you personal actions as part of God's plans
for
the world. Recognise that even your errors are just part of Gods will
for
the betterment of mankind.
9.Profess humility but avoid the actual experience of it.
10.Refuse to take in information that differs from your own view and
oppose all such information through classification of such information
in
a derogatory and simplistic manner(eg by categorising it as left wing
propaganda)
11.Refuse to accept that truth is not black and white; that reality is
complex and there are shades of grey
12.Refuse to forgive anyone else for anything unless you purport to
forgive on behalf of other people unconnected with you for whom you
don't
have that right anyhow.

Adam Marczyk
2003-11-18 17:29:58 EST
IknowHimDoYou <IknowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IknowHim-1811031206290001@pm3-48.kalama.com...
> In article <bpdkpq$1lgj9n$1@ID-165613.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Icarus"
> <icarus_uk@email.com> wrote:
>
>> IknowHimDoYou wrote:
>> ...
>>> Certainly there is mistreatment of women everywhere, even here
>>> in the US but up til now it was the exception. Today we see
>>> the encroachment of pornography...
>>
>> Can you justify the implication that pornography necessarily
>> equates to mistreatment of women? In what way are they
>> mistreated?
> _______________________________________________
>
> For one thing they are demeaned.

You do not have the right to tell other people what demeans them; that is a
decision each person must make for themselves. I might think that
fundamentalist Christianity demeans people, but I doubt you'd agree with
me.

> For another they become prey for sex fiends who are satuarated with this
> garbage.

That doesn't make any sense. Why are people who produce pornography at any
greater risk of sexual assault than anyone else?

> For another-how would you like your mother's photos shown like
> this, or perhaps your sister's or your wife's?

Do you think this constitutes an argument? Even if a member of my family
did take part in something like that, and even if I was offended, would
that be a reason to forbid them from engaging in it? Because it bothers
*me*? Should we ban everything that offends anyone? Your position is
astonishingly weak and supported by nothing more than a collection of lame
assertions and non sequiturs. I suspect it is driven by irrational
prejudice on your part, rather than the facts.

--
"We have loved the stars too fondly | a.a. #2001
to be fearful of the night." | http://www.ebonmusings.org
--Tombstone epitaph of | e-mail: ebonmuse!hotmail.com
two amateur astronomers, | ICQ: 8777843
quoted in Carl Sagan's _Cosmos_ | PGP Key ID: 0x5C66F737
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Brad
2003-11-18 18:53:50 EST

"Thore Schmechtig" <WRITETOcommoner@carcosa.de> wrote in message
news:bpe25o$1kit3e$4@ID-87341.news.uni-berlin.de...
>


UNWRITTEN RULES OF Women and the men they control..... DEMOCRATES



> 1. "I'm right and you are wrong".
> 2. Never admit that you are wrong, even if you really are.
> 3. When you have nothing to say, hurl insults.
> 4. Regard and portray your own violence, whether physical,
> psychological,
> or verbal, at all times as defensive
> 5. Be prepared at all times to lie and bluster, particularly when backed
> into a corner in an argument
> 6. Never accept responsibility for any mess you have personally caused.
> 7. When you are forced to admit to an error, regard the whole process of
> error and correction as part of God's personal plan for you and not as a
> something for which you should apologise retract or make amends except
> verbally and secretly to God himself
> 8. Always see yourself and you personal actions as part of God's plans
> for
> the world. Recognise that even your errors are just part of Gods will
> for
> the betterment of mankind.
> 9.Profess humility but avoid the actual experience of it.
> 10.Refuse to take in information that differs from your own view and
> oppose all such information through classification of such information
> in
> a derogatory and simplistic manner(eg by categorising it as left wing
> propaganda)
> 11.Refuse to accept that truth is not black and white; that reality is
> complex and there are shades of grey
> 12.Refuse to forgive anyone else for anything unless you purport to
> forgive on behalf of other people unconnected with you for whom you
> don't
> have that right anyhow.



Shan
2003-11-18 19:22:30 EST
I*m@leavingsoon.com (IknowHimDoYou) wrote in message news:<IknowHim-1811030847090001@pm8-10.kalama.com>...

> Certainly there is mistreatment of women everywhere, even here in the US
> but up til now it was the exception. Today we see the encroachment of
> pornography, abortion, prostitution, wife abuse and other practices let in
> by the God-haters, atheists and their fellow travelers including Hollywood
> the sewer.

Mistreatment of women is rooted in the Old Testament. Women were
considered defiled when they had their periods and after childbirth.
Also, Paul who was too much influenced by his Jewish upbringing,
despised women. Women were no saints either. Remember the whores of
daughters of Lot who were supposed to have got their father drunk to
sleep with him? What kind of a lesson does the Old Testament teach?
Load of rubbish.

You cannot equate pornography and prostitution with abortion. People
who conscientiously do not believe that abortion is immoral and do
practice abortion does not make them corrupt, as you lump them.

Wife abuse has some roots in the Bible where the man is made "head" of
the woman and the woman must obey him. So, don't go about accusing
people while obeying the Bible leads to wife abuse.

Who is a God-hater? People who believe in God, generally do not dare
hate Him unless in very rare cases. People who do not believe in God
simply ignore Him, t hey don't hate him.

Atheists can be more humane than many so-called Christians. Being
humanitarian has nothing to do with believing or not believing in a
God. Humanitarians can belong to any faith or no faith at all.

You are very dumb to make such ridiculous claims.

Shan

John W
2003-11-18 21:28:15 EST
x-no-archive:yes
On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 17:28:59 -0000, "Icarus" <icarus_uk@email.com>
wrote:

>IknowHimDoYou wrote:
>...
>> Certainly there is mistreatment of women everywhere, even here
>> in the US but up til now it was the exception. Today we see
>> the encroachment of pornography...
>
>Can you justify the implication that pornography necessarily
>equates to mistreatment of women? In what way are they
>mistreated?
>

There was even a lively debate on this issue a few months ago. Oprah,
I believe it was, hosted half-a-dozen porn industry actors/actresses.
One or two wailed and moaned at how they had been "abused for years"
in the porn industry.
The other 4 or 5 kept asking these women why they allowed that to
happen to them? ( As in, if every time you show up for your scene,
the director punches you in the nose before you get onto the bed, why
work for that director? And why isn't the jerk in jail? If he hits
you the 1st time, he should be in prison, doing 5 to 20). )
The majority said they chose to be in porn for "easy money" "easy,
fun work".
And it's disingenuous to call them liars.

The other issue is how porn "demeans" women. How? I interviewed
several while in college. The answers I got matched the answers Oprah
got. "Honey, if I didn't enjoy it, I wouldn't be doing it!"

They then asked, "How are we demeaned? We can say, "No!" We can call
in sick and not work that day. We get well paid. And we enjoy what
we're doing."

The rest of us, no matter how we feel about porn, need to not
superimpose how these men/women "should feel" over how they DO feel.
and most are happy with the work they do.

We need to find ways of making porn actors/actresses QUIT; we'll never
again outlaw porn. It's our nation's #1 industry.


God bless,


John W


John W
2003-11-18 21:28:16 EST
x-no-archive:yes
On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 12:06:29 -0800, IknowHim@leavingsoon.com
(IknowHimDoYou) wrote:

>In article <bpdkpq$1lgj9n$1@ID-165613.news.uni-berlin.de>, "Icarus"
><icarus_uk@email.com> wrote:
>
>> IknowHimDoYou wrote:
>> ...
>> > Certainly there is mistreatment of women everywhere, even here
>> > in the US but up til now it was the exception. Today we see
>> > the encroachment of pornography...
>>
>> Can you justify the implication that pornography necessarily
>> equates to mistreatment of women? In what way are they
>> mistreated?
>_______________________________________________
>
>For one thing they are demeaned.

What does that statement mean? How are these women "demeaned?" They
can say "No."

>
>For another they become prey for sex fiends who are satuarated with this
>garbage.

In America today, it is illegal to force these women to do anything
they do not wish to do.

For another-how would you like your mother's photos shown like
>this, or perhaps your sister's or your wife's?

That is not the issue. The issue is, why would YOU deny these women
this way to express themselves and make lots of money? ARen't you
imposing YOUR values on others? Suppose i don't like chocolate, and I
seek to prevent you and others from eating it?


John W

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