Bible Discussion: Courage To Refuse-Combatant's Letter- READ This Well Boys And Girls!!

Courage To Refuse-Combatant's Letter- READ This Well Boys And Girls!!
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Yas
2003-10-29 18:29:11 EST
http://www.seruv.org.il/defaulteng.asp

Current signers number: 550 (and hopefully growing!)

DECLARATION.

We, reserve combat officers and soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces, who
were raised upon the principles of Zionism, sacrifice and giving to the
people of Israel and to the State of Israel, who have always served in the
front lines, and who were the first to carry out any mission, light or
heavy, in order to protect the State of Israel and strengthen it.

We, combat officers and soldiers who have served the State of Israel for
long weeks every year, in spite of the dear cost to our personal lives, have
been on reserve duty all over the Occupied Territories, and were issued
commands and directives that had nothing to do with the security of our
country, and that had the sole purpose of perpetuating our control over the
Palestinian people. We, whose eyes have seen the bloody toll this Occupation
exacts from both sides.

We, who sensed how the commands issued to us in the Territories, destroy all
the values we had absorbed while growing up in this country.
We, who understand now that the price of Occupation is the loss of IDF's
human character and the corruption of the entire Israeli society.

We, who know that the Territories are not Israel, and that all settlements
are bound to be evacuated in the end.

We hereby declare that we shall not continue to fight this War of the
Settlements.

We shall not continue to fight beyond the 1967 borders in order to dominate,
expel, starve and humiliate an entire people.

We hereby declare that we shall continue serving in the Israel Defense
Forces in any mission that serves Israel's defense.

The missions of occupation and oppression do not serve this purpose - and we
shall take no part in them.



Bernardz
2003-10-30 10:19:29 EST
In article <3fa04d4e$0$107$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>, spam@127.0.0.1
says...
> http://www.seruv.org.il/defaulteng.asp
>
> Current signers number: 550 (and hopefully growing!)
>
> DECLARATION.
>
> We, reserve combat officers and soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces, who
> were raised upon the principles of Zionism, sacrifice and giving to the
> people of Israel and to the State of Israel, who have always served in the
> front lines, and who were the first to carry out any mission, light or
> heavy, in order to protect the State of Israel and strengthen it.
>
> We, combat officers and soldiers who have served the State of Israel for
> long weeks every year, in spite of the dear cost to our personal lives, have
> been on reserve duty all over the Occupied Territories, and were issued
> commands and directives that had nothing to do with the security of our
> country, and that had the sole purpose of perpetuating our control over the
> Palestinian people. We, whose eyes have seen the bloody toll this Occupation
> exacts from both sides.
>
> We, who sensed how the commands issued to us in the Territories, destroy all
> the values we had absorbed while growing up in this country.
> We, who understand now that the price of Occupation is the loss of IDF's
> human character and the corruption of the entire Israeli society.
>
> We, who know that the Territories are not Israel, and that all settlements
> are bound to be evacuated in the end.
>
> We hereby declare that we shall not continue to fight this War of the
> Settlements.
>
> We shall not continue to fight beyond the 1967 borders in order to dominate,
> expel, starve and humiliate an entire people.
>
> We hereby declare that we shall continue serving in the Israel Defense
> Forces in any mission that serves Israel's defense.
>
> The missions of occupation and oppression do not serve this purpose - and we
> shall take no part in them.
>
>
>

Would it not be nice if PA terrorist said something like this and so
allow peace to establish itself in the region.


--
I hope that God's behaviour improves in the future?

Yas
2003-10-30 10:36:33 EST
"Bernardz" <Bernardzz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a96422e000127e05970560dca73f1232@news.teranews.com...
> In article <3fa04d4e$0$107$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>, spam@127.0.0.1
> says...
> > http://www.seruv.org.il/defaulteng.asp
> >
> > Current signers number: 550 (and hopefully growing!)
> >
> > DECLARATION.
> >
> > We, reserve combat officers and soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces,
who
> > were raised upon the principles of Zionism, sacrifice and giving to the
> > people of Israel and to the State of Israel, who have always served in
the
> > front lines, and who were the first to carry out any mission, light or
> > heavy, in order to protect the State of Israel and strengthen it.
> >
> > We, combat officers and soldiers who have served the State of Israel for
> > long weeks every year, in spite of the dear cost to our personal lives,
have
> > been on reserve duty all over the Occupied Territories, and were issued
> > commands and directives that had nothing to do with the security of our
> > country, and that had the sole purpose of perpetuating our control over
the
> > Palestinian people. We, whose eyes have seen the bloody toll this
Occupation
> > exacts from both sides.
> >
> > We, who sensed how the commands issued to us in the Territories, destroy
all
> > the values we had absorbed while growing up in this country.
> > We, who understand now that the price of Occupation is the loss of IDF's
> > human character and the corruption of the entire Israeli society.
> >
> > We, who know that the Territories are not Israel, and that all
settlements
> > are bound to be evacuated in the end.
> >
> > We hereby declare that we shall not continue to fight this War of the
> > Settlements.
> >
> > We shall not continue to fight beyond the 1967 borders in order to
dominate,
> > expel, starve and humiliate an entire people.
> >
> > We hereby declare that we shall continue serving in the Israel Defense
> > Forces in any mission that serves Israel's defense.
> >
> > The missions of occupation and oppression do not serve this purpose -
and we
> > shall take no part in them.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Would it not be nice if PA terrorist said something like this and so
> allow peace to establish itself in the region.
>

I suggest you read this Letter again.



Caiaphas
2003-10-30 10:39:25 EST

"Bernardz" <Bernardzz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a96422e000127e05970560dca73f1232@news.teranews.com...
> In article <3fa04d4e$0$107$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>, spam@127.0.0.1
> says...
> > http://www.seruv.org.il/defaulteng.asp
> >
> > Current signers number: 550 (and hopefully growing!)
> >
> > DECLARATION.
> >
> > We, reserve combat officers and soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces, who
> > were raised upon the principles of Zionism, sacrifice and giving to the
> > people of Israel and to the State of Israel, who have always served in the
> > front lines, and who were the first to carry out any mission, light or
> > heavy, in order to protect the State of Israel and strengthen it.
> >
> > We, combat officers and soldiers who have served the State of Israel for
> > long weeks every year, in spite of the dear cost to our personal lives, have
> > been on reserve duty all over the Occupied Territories, and were issued
> > commands and directives that had nothing to do with the security of our
> > country, and that had the sole purpose of perpetuating our control over the
> > Palestinian people. We, whose eyes have seen the bloody toll this Occupation
> > exacts from both sides.
> >
> > We, who sensed how the commands issued to us in the Territories, destroy all
> > the values we had absorbed while growing up in this country.
> > We, who understand now that the price of Occupation is the loss of IDF's
> > human character and the corruption of the entire Israeli society.
> >
> > We, who know that the Territories are not Israel, and that all settlements
> > are bound to be evacuated in the end.
> >
> > We hereby declare that we shall not continue to fight this War of the
> > Settlements.
> >
> > We shall not continue to fight beyond the 1967 borders in order to dominate,
> > expel, starve and humiliate an entire people.
> >
> > We hereby declare that we shall continue serving in the Israel Defense
> > Forces in any mission that serves Israel's defense.
> >
> > The missions of occupation and oppression do not serve this purpose - and we
> > shall take no part in them.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Would it not be nice if PA terrorist said something like this and so
> allow peace to establish itself in the region.
>

The problem is Trust. I don't think the Palestinians really trust the Israelis.
>From what I have seen, I can understand why they feel that way.





Xathos
2003-10-30 11:25:17 EST
Living in a democracy they have a right to refuse,Imagine one of Arafat's
homicide bombers refusing to kill innocent Israeli civilians,they'd be
strung up from the nearest lamp-post before they'd finished the sentence.
"Yas" <spam@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:3fa04d4e$0$107$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net...
> http://www.seruv.org.il/defaulteng.asp
>
> Current signers number: 550 (and hopefully growing!)
>
> DECLARATION.
>
> We, reserve combat officers and soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces, who
> were raised upon the principles of Zionism, sacrifice and giving to the
> people of Israel and to the State of Israel, who have always served in the
> front lines, and who were the first to carry out any mission, light or
> heavy, in order to protect the State of Israel and strengthen it.
>
> We, combat officers and soldiers who have served the State of Israel for
> long weeks every year, in spite of the dear cost to our personal lives,
have
> been on reserve duty all over the Occupied Territories, and were issued
> commands and directives that had nothing to do with the security of our
> country, and that had the sole purpose of perpetuating our control over
the
> Palestinian people. We, whose eyes have seen the bloody toll this
Occupation
> exacts from both sides.
>
> We, who sensed how the commands issued to us in the Territories, destroy
all
> the values we had absorbed while growing up in this country.
> We, who understand now that the price of Occupation is the loss of IDF's
> human character and the corruption of the entire Israeli society.
>
> We, who know that the Territories are not Israel, and that all settlements
> are bound to be evacuated in the end.
>
> We hereby declare that we shall not continue to fight this War of the
> Settlements.
>
> We shall not continue to fight beyond the 1967 borders in order to
dominate,
> expel, starve and humiliate an entire people.
>
> We hereby declare that we shall continue serving in the Israel Defense
> Forces in any mission that serves Israel's defense.
>
> The missions of occupation and oppression do not serve this purpose - and
we
> shall take no part in them.
>
>



Yas
2003-10-30 11:36:38 EST
"Xathos" <Xathos.Xzeroz@lycos.co.uk> wrote in message
news:bnre1d$89e$1@sparta.btinternet.com...
> Living in a democracy they have a right to refuse,Imagine one of Arafat's
> homicide bombers refusing to kill innocent Israeli civilians,they'd be
> strung up from the nearest lamp-post before they'd finished the sentence.

You just don't get it, do you!!


> "Yas" <spam@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
> news:3fa04d4e$0$107$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net...
> > http://www.seruv.org.il/defaulteng.asp
> >
> > Current signers number: 550 (and hopefully growing!)
> >
> > DECLARATION.
> >
> > We, reserve combat officers and soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces,
who
> > were raised upon the principles of Zionism, sacrifice and giving to the
> > people of Israel and to the State of Israel, who have always served in
the
> > front lines, and who were the first to carry out any mission, light or
> > heavy, in order to protect the State of Israel and strengthen it.
> >
> > We, combat officers and soldiers who have served the State of Israel for
> > long weeks every year, in spite of the dear cost to our personal lives,
> have
> > been on reserve duty all over the Occupied Territories, and were issued
> > commands and directives that had nothing to do with the security of our
> > country, and that had the sole purpose of perpetuating our control over
> the
> > Palestinian people. We, whose eyes have seen the bloody toll this
> Occupation
> > exacts from both sides.
> >
> > We, who sensed how the commands issued to us in the Territories, destroy
> all
> > the values we had absorbed while growing up in this country.
> > We, who understand now that the price of Occupation is the loss of IDF's
> > human character and the corruption of the entire Israeli society.
> >
> > We, who know that the Territories are not Israel, and that all
settlements
> > are bound to be evacuated in the end.
> >
> > We hereby declare that we shall not continue to fight this War of the
> > Settlements.
> >
> > We shall not continue to fight beyond the 1967 borders in order to
> dominate,
> > expel, starve and humiliate an entire people.
> >
> > We hereby declare that we shall continue serving in the Israel Defense
> > Forces in any mission that serves Israel's defense.
> >
> > The missions of occupation and oppression do not serve this purpose -
and
> we
> > shall take no part in them.
> >
> >
>
>



Pastor Frank
2003-10-31 05:58:27 EST
"Bernardz" <Bernardzz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a96422e000127e05970560dca73f1232@news.teranews.com...
> In article <3fa04d4e$0$107$65c69314@mercury.nildram.net>, spam@127.0.0.1
> > http://www.seruv.org.il/defaulteng.asp
> >
> > Current signers number: 550 (and hopefully growing!)
> >
> > DECLARATION.
> >
> > We, reserve combat officers and soldiers of the Israel Defence Forces,
who
> > were raised upon the principles of Zionism, sacrifice and giving to the
> > people of Israel and to the State of Israel, who have always served in
the
> > front lines, and who were the first to carry out any mission, light or
> > heavy, in order to protect the State of Israel and strengthen it.
> >
> > We, combat officers and soldiers who have served the State of Israel for
> > long weeks every year, in spite of the dear cost to our personal lives,
have
> > been on reserve duty all over the Occupied Territories, and were issued
> > commands and directives that had nothing to do with the security of our
> > country, and that had the sole purpose of perpetuating our control over
the
> > Palestinian people. We, whose eyes have seen the bloody toll this
Occupation
> > exacts from both sides.
> >
> > We, who sensed how the commands issued to us in the Territories, destroy
all
> > the values we had absorbed while growing up in this country.
> > We, who understand now that the price of Occupation is the loss of IDF's
> > human character and the corruption of the entire Israeli society.
> >
> > We, who know that the Territories are not Israel, and that all
settlements
> > are bound to be evacuated in the end.
> >
> > We hereby declare that we shall not continue to fight this War of the
> > Settlements.
> >
> > We shall not continue to fight beyond the 1967 borders in order to
dominate,
> > expel, starve and humiliate an entire people.
> >
> > We hereby declare that we shall continue serving in the Israel Defense
> > Forces in any mission that serves Israel's defense.
> >
> > The missions of occupation and oppression do not serve this purpose -
and we
> > shall take no part in them.
>
> Would it not be nice if PA terrorist said something like this and so
> allow peace to establish itself in the region.
>
Would you give up fighting for what is yours after being driven into
refugee camps, by terrorists like the Stern Gang, with no hope of
compensation? But then, perhaps you would, but then you would have to be
pretty spineless.
It took over 50 years of brutal abuse and maltreatment of the
Palestinian natives by their worst and most ancient Hebrew enemies, who are
on record of killing every original inhabitant of the "promised land" (and
their animals) to "possess the land and reap where they have not sown", in
order to get them to this point. A patient people indeed!!! But not one to
forget. Prophesy is about to be fulfilled involving great heat and noise.
See below
--
Pastor Frank

CAUSE (Holocaust of the entire native population of "the promised land" and
the continuing occupation, brutal persecution and repression of Palestinian
natives)
Moses in Numbers 31:17-18 Now therefore kill every male among the
little ones, and kill every woman, that hath known man by lying with him.
But all the female children, that have not known man by lying with him,
keep alive for yourself.

PROPHETIC APOCALYPSE, (The n-u-c-l-e-a-r consequence)
2Pt:3:10: But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in
the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements
shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein
shall be burned up.
2Pt:3:12: Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God,
wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall
melt with fervent heat?
Jesus in Matt. 24:16: Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the
mountains:
17: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of
his house:
18: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19: And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in
those days!
20: But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the
sabbath day:
21: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning
of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22: And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be
saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Jesus in Lk:23:30: Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on
us; and to the hills, Cover us.
Rv:16:9: And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name
of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give
him glory.



---

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.525 / Virus Database: 322 - Release Date: 10/9/03




Mathias Donien
2003-10-31 17:15:04 EST
Pastor Frank wrote:
>Bernardz wrote:
>>Would it not be nice if PA terrorist said something like this and so
>>allow peace to establish itself in the region.
>
> Would you give up fighting for what is yours after being driven into
> refugee camps,

Ok. Let's dismantle the refugee camps and send them to their homeland,
the Kingdom of Jordan. There they have a future.

> by terrorists like the Stern Gang,

The terrorist Stern Gang is not existing anymore.
Why are the refugee camps still there? Because the Arab League wants it
so. They abuse these people in the refugee camps as tool to destroy the
state of Israel.

> with no hope of compensation?

There would be hope when they could begin a new life in Arab-Palestine
(=Jordan). As citizens - not as refugees.

> But then, perhaps you would, but then you would have to be
> pretty spineless.

It is better to accept the situation - and then making something useful
from it. Terrorism isn't useful at all.


--
If we believe absurd, we will do terrible. Voltaire (1694-1778)
http://www.rsf.org/predators.php3 Predators of Press Freedom
http://www.therightroadtopeace.com/eng/defaulteng.html
http://www.honestreporting.com/ Media Critiques


Bernardz
2003-11-02 04:56:48 EST
In article <Rgaob.11$X5.614@eagle.america.net>, Nyquist314159@yahoo.com
says...
>
> The problem is Trust. I don't think the Palestinians really trust the Israelis.
> From what I have seen, I can understand why they feel that way.
>


Agreed. The Palestinian leaders have lied so many times before that no
one trusts them.



--
It is amazing how complex a simple machine is when you try to fix it.

10th saying of Bernard

Patrick EMIN
2003-11-02 07:26:56 EST
"Bernardz" <Bernardzz@hotmail.com> a \ufffdcrit dans le message de
news:d071f56e6acf35f5c2b9b85ff17d4c1d@news.teranews.com...
> Agreed. The Palestinian leaders have lied so many times before that no
> one trusts them.

Seems to contradicts facts. The last UN resolution about the israeli wall
illegality has been adopted by the whole world appart from the USA and two
tourist resorts, the marshall Island and Micronesia, which political weight
in the world is contained in its name.
It looks like no one believes israel when it violates every single UN
resolution, appart from its traditional accomplice, the USA who has also a
big problem with credibility in Irak...


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