Bible Discussion: Ancient Knowledge

Ancient Knowledge
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IknowHimDoYou
2003-10-25 11:30:36 EST
Ancient Knowledge

The Bible describes the earth as "the circle of the earth" in Isaiah
40:22. The Hebrew word is "khug" or sphericity or roundness. When the
Lord Jesus Christ described His coming again in Luke 17:34-36 He implied
that He knew about a round earth. He stated that different people on
earth would experience night, morning, and midday at the same time as His
appearing. This is possible because the spherical earth is rotating on
its axis which allows the sun to shine on these different areas(times).

The knowledgable ancients who wrote down what God told and showed them did
not believe in a flat earth. This is another fable made up by the
God-haters and has no basis in truth.

Steven J.
2003-10-25 12:04:17 EST

"IknowHimDoYou" <IknowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IknowHim-2510030830360001@pm6-33.kalama.com...
> Ancient Knowledge
>
> The Bible describes the earth as "the circle of the earth" in Isaiah
> 40:22. The Hebrew word is "khug" or sphericity or roundness. When the
> Lord Jesus Christ described His coming again in Luke 17:34-36 He implied
> that He knew about a round earth. He stated that different people on
> earth would experience night, morning, and midday at the same time as His
> appearing. This is possible because the spherical earth is rotating on
> its axis which allows the sun to shine on these different areas(times).
>
The Hebrew word for "ball" or "sphere" is _gowl_; _kuhg_ means "circle," as
it is translated. It's worth noting that while the Bible doesn't have much
explicit to say about geography, geology, or cosmology, there are surviving
extrabiblical writings telling scholars what the Jews believed about the
shape of the Earth in the last couple of centuries before Christ (i.e. after
they had Isaiah and the rest of the Hebrew scriptures). These texts
describe a *flat* Earth. That is, the readers of Isaiah did not interpret
this passage, or any other, as teaching that the Earth was a globe.

It's worth noting that if Luke 17:34-36 describes a spherical Earth (rather
than simply the possibility that the End of Days might come at any time of
day), then it describes an Earth with people living on all sides of it. Yet
we know two things about early Christian beliefs about the shape of the
Earth. A few, like Lactantius Firmiatus, firmly stated that the Earth was
flat -- indicating that Christians did not read the Bible as even teaching
that the Earth was a globe. A larger number of those who wrote on the
matter accepted the idea -- which they got from the Greek philosophers, not
the Bible -- that the Earth was a sphere. But nearly all of them rejected
the idea, put forward by some pagans, that there were continents and people
on the other side (they couldn't see how descendants of Adam could have got
to such continents, or how Christians were supposed to evangelize them if
they had got there). So no early Christian ever read either Isaiah 40 or
Luke 17 to imply a view of the Earth as a globe with continents on opposite
sides of it; that view is purely modern, an attempt to read modern views
into the text.
>
> The knowledgable ancients who wrote down what God told and showed them did
> not believe in a flat earth. This is another fable made up by the
> God-haters and has no basis in truth.
>
-- Steven J.



The_Sage
2003-10-25 12:46:09 EST
>Reply to article by: IknowHim@leavingsoon.com (IknowHimDoYou)
>Date written: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 08:30:36 -0700
>MsgID:<IknowHim-2510030830360001@pm6-33.kalama.com>

>Ancient Knowledge

>The Bible describes the earth as "the circle of the earth" in Isaiah
>40:22. The Hebrew word is "khug" or sphericity or roundness.

That is a blatent lie. At the time of Isaiah, the Hebrews had no concept of a
sphere. The word only means round, like a circle is round.

The Sage

=============================================================
My Home Page : http://members.cox.net/the.sage

"The biggest problem in the world, could have been solved
when it was small..." -- Lao Tzu
=============================================================

ZenIsWhen
2003-10-25 13:01:58 EST

"IknowHimDoYou" <IknowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IknowHim-2510030830360001@pm6-33.kalama.com...
> Ancient Knowledge
>
> The Bible describes the earth as "the circle of the earth" in Isaiah
> 40:22. The Hebrew word is "khug" or sphericity or roundness. When the
> Lord Jesus Christ described His coming again in Luke 17:34-36 He implied
> that He knew about a round earth. He stated that different people on
> earth would experience night, morning, and midday at the same time as His
> appearing. This is possible because the spherical earth is rotating on
> its axis which allows the sun to shine on these different areas(times).

I have no idea hat you're reading - but here's the KJV version:
" Luke 17
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one
shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the
other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other
left. "

http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?passage=Luke+17%3A34-36+&x=11&y=6&
NIV_version=yes&KJV_version=yes&language=english



Obviously, and typically, you use the most deranged and invetive
interpretation of the bible to suit your needs, while ignoring the straight
facts of reality based science and history!



>
> The knowledgable ancients who wrote down what God told and showed them did
> not believe in a flat earth. This is another fable made up by the
> God-haters and has no basis in truth.


The bible isn't "Ancient Knowledge". It a religion containing fairy tales
and fables!



Don
2003-10-25 13:59:14 EST
On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:01:58 -0400, "ZenIsWhen"
<*n@anywhere.com> wrote:

>
>"IknowHimDoYou" <IknowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
>news:IknowHim-2510030830360001@pm6-33.kalama.com...
>> Ancient Knowledge
>>
>> The Bible describes the earth as "the circle of the earth" in Isaiah
>> 40:22. The Hebrew word is "khug" or sphericity or roundness. When the
>> Lord Jesus Christ described His coming again in Luke 17:34-36 He implied
>> that He knew about a round earth. He stated that different people on
>> earth would experience night, morning, and midday at the same time as His
>> appearing. This is possible because the spherical earth is rotating on
>> its axis which allows the sun to shine on these different areas(times).
>
>I have no idea hat you're reading - but here's the KJV version:
>" Luke 17
>34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one
>shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

Proof that God is going to miraculous separate ALL SIAMESE TWINS.

Or it could be talking about homos, one Baptist and one Catholic.

>35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the
>other left.

Grinding teeth? Grinding flour? Grinding the gears?

>36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other
>left. "

That happened with my brother and I when we were kids. Since I had
asthma, I was the one who was taken and he was the one who was left.

See...that has already been fulfilled.

>Obviously, and typically, you use the most deranged and invetive
>interpretation of the bible to suit your needs, while ignoring the straight
>facts of reality based science and history!

FACT: Asthmatics should not live on a farm!

D*









"She's just one dog-faced-boy short of a freak-show."
- - anonymous

Thore Schmechtig
2003-10-25 16:40:12 EST
> The Bible describes the earth as "the circle of the earth" in Isaiah
> 40:22. The Hebrew word is "khug" or sphericity or roundness.

Maybe so (referring to "khug"), but the verse continues:
"...and the inhabitants thereof [of the round earth] are as
grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and
spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: ..." (KJV)

This clearly shows the belief in a flat earth, or else you surely can
tell me how one is supposed to spread a curtain as a tent across a
sphere, eh?
Conclusion: You lied. Conclusion from this: You SINNED.

> When the
> Lord Jesus Christ described His coming again in Luke 17:34-36 He implied
> that He knew about a round earth.

Really?
Let's have a look at Luke 17:34-36 (KJV):
34: I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the
one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35: Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and
the other left.
36: Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the
other left.

Just for the protocol, the German Luther bible I own tells the same in
both cases(just in German words of course).

Now tell me, where are we supposed to see a reference to a "round
earth" here?

Conclusion: You lied again. YOU SINNED AGAIN.
This one single posting of yours clearly shows that you tell nothing
but falsehoods in your desperate attempts to "prove" the falsehoods
contained in the bible. You parrot without thinking (and without
verifying what they tell you) everything your cult leaders tell you.

UNWRITTEN RULES OF FUNDAMENTALISM

1. "I'm right and you are wrong".
2. Never admit that you are wrong, even if you really are.
3. When you have nothing to say, hurl insults.
4. Regard and portray your own violence, whether physical,
psychological,
or verbal, at all times as defensive
5. Be prepared at all times to lie and bluster, particularly when backed
into a corner in an argument
6. Never accept responsibility for any mess you have personally caused.
7. When you are forced to admit to an error, regard the whole process of
error and correction as part of God's personal plan for you and not as a
something for which you should apologise retract or make amends except
verbally and secretly to God himself
8. Always see yourself and you personal actions as part of God's plans
for
the world. Recognise that even your errors are just part of Gods will
for
the betterment of mankind.
9.Profess humility but avoid the actual experience of it.
10.Refuse to take in information that differs from your own view and
oppose all such information through classification of such information
in
a derogatory and simplistic manner(eg by categorising it as left wing
propaganda)
11.Refuse to accept that truth is not black and white; that reality is
complex and there are shades of grey
12.Refuse to forgive anyone else for anything unless you purport to
forgive on behalf of other people unconnected with you for whom you
don't
have that right anyhow.

Oz
2003-10-25 22:12:53 EST
In article <IknowHim-2510030830360001@pm6-33.kalama.com>,
I*m@leavingsoon.com (IknowHimDoYou) wrote:

> Ancient Knowledge
>
> The Bible describes the earth as "the circle of the earth" in Isaiah
> 40:22. The Hebrew word is "khug" or sphericity or roundness. When the
> Lord Jesus Christ described His coming again in Luke 17:34-36 He implied
> that He knew about a round earth. He stated that different people on
> earth would experience night, morning, and midday at the same time as His
> appearing. This is possible because the spherical earth is rotating on
> its axis which allows the sun to shine on these different areas(times).
>
> The knowledgable ancients who wrote down what God told and showed them did
> not believe in a flat earth. This is another fable made up by the
> God-haters and has no basis in truth.

Awareness that the Earth is a sphere appears to date at least from Greek
times which knowledge almost certainly passed into all cultures.

The flat earth belief is a bit of a myth itself. It rather depended in
ancient times who you talked to

The curvature of the earth was easily recognised both by the
dissappearance of ships at the horizon and by recognised differences in
the angle of the sun when measurements were taken at the same time in
different parts of the Empire at noon

It is all a bit obvious really

Especially since during a lunar eclipse the curvature of the earth is
visible on the surface of the moon .

ZenIsWhen
2003-10-25 23:55:33 EST

"oz" <canterbury@england.com> wrote in message
news:canterbury-2610031312530001@ppp90.dyn12.pacific.net.au...
> In article <IknowHim-2510030830360001@pm6-33.kalama.com>,
> IknowHim@leavingsoon.com (IknowHimDoYou) wrote:
>
> > Ancient Knowledge
> >
> > The Bible describes the earth as "the circle of the earth" in Isaiah
> > 40:22. The Hebrew word is "khug" or sphericity or roundness. When the
> > Lord Jesus Christ described His coming again in Luke 17:34-36 He
implied
> > that He knew about a round earth. He stated that different people on
> > earth would experience night, morning, and midday at the same time as
His
> > appearing. This is possible because the spherical earth is rotating on
> > its axis which allows the sun to shine on these different areas(times).
> >
> > The knowledgable ancients who wrote down what God told and showed them
did
> > not believe in a flat earth. This is another fable made up by the
> > God-haters and has no basis in truth.
>
> Awareness that the Earth is a sphere appears to date at least from Greek
> times which knowledge almost certainly passed into all cultures.

Not necesssarily passed on - not necessaryily accepted.
While an educated ancient egyptian actually calculted the circumfrence of
the earth, later European maps showed a greater indication of a flat earth
where ships that went to far went over the edge.


>
> The flat earth belief is a bit of a myth itself. It rather depended in
> ancient times who you talked to
>
> The curvature of the earth was easily recognised both by the
> dissappearance of ships at the horizon and by recognised differences in
> the angle of the sun when measurements were taken at the same time in
> different parts of the Empire at noon.

It was easily recognized by those intelligent enough to create the correct
theory from the observations.
Remeber, it wasn't until Newton that such a common thing as gravity was
acknowledged.



>
> It is all a bit obvious really

Now it is, because we learn that early in school.



>
> Especially since during a lunar eclipse the curvature of the earth is
> visible on the surface of the moon .


For which many ancient cultures invented explanations; such as the Chinese
"A giant Dragon swallowed the sun".

They had NO way of knowing it was a shadow of the earth!



Adam Marczyk
2003-10-26 10:19:46 EST
IknowHimDoYou <IknowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IknowHim-2510030830360001@pm6-33.kalama.com...
> Ancient Knowledge
>
> The Bible describes the earth as "the circle of the earth" in Isaiah
> 40:22. The Hebrew word is "khug" or sphericity or roundness.

Yes, and a circle is a two-dimensional figure. Strong's defines the word in
question thusly:

"1) circle, circuit, compass
2) (BDB) vault (of the heavens)"

I must conclude you simply invented the "sphericity" meaning yourself, as
that one is self-evidently not mentioned. OTOH, there *is* a Hebrew word
that carries an undeniable meaning of sphericity - _duwr_, "ball", as in
Isaiah 22:18 - of course, the Bible does not use that one to describe the
Earth at any point.

> . When the
> Lord Jesus Christ described His coming again in Luke 17:34-36 He implied
> that He knew about a round earth. He stated that different people on
> earth would experience night, morning, and midday at the same time as His
> appearing.

Those verses say nothing about this.

> This is possible because the spherical earth is rotating on
> its axis which allows the sun to shine on these different areas(times).
>
> The knowledgable ancients who wrote down what God told and showed them
> did not believe in a flat earth.

It is true that many people in ancient times knew the Earth was round. That
knowledge dates back to the ancient Greeks and was gained, not by
revelation or mysticism, but by logic and their use of the scientific
method. (Eratosthenes correctly estimated the circumference of the Earth to
within 2% of the modern value.) However, nowhere does the Bible explicitly
teach such a doctrine - in fact there are some verses that would seem to
disavow it, such as the ones that mention high mountains or trees from
which "all the kingdoms of the world" could be seen. Furthermore, several
influential Christian writers, including Augustine, Cyril of Jerusalem,
Saint John Chrysostom and Severian, Bishop of Gabala, among others,
explicitly argued for a flat Earth in the first few centuries CE.

--
"I'm materialist | a.a. #2001
Call me a humanist | http://www.ebonmusings.org
I guess I'm full of doubt | e-mail: ebonmuse!hotmail.com
So I'll gladly have it out with you..." | ICQ: 8777843
--Bad Religion, "Materialist" | PGP Key ID: 0x5C66F737
----------------------------------------------------------------------


Matt Silberstein
2003-10-26 11:02:19 EST
In alt.religion.christian I read this message from
I*m@leavingsoon.com (IknowHimDoYou):

>Ancient Knowledge
>
>The Bible describes the earth as "the circle of the earth" in Isaiah
>40:22. The Hebrew word is "khug" or sphericity or roundness.

Please provide a biblical reference for where it was used to mean
sphere. Please tell us the other Hebrew word for sphere, the one
that is actually used. And please stop lying. Jesus hates liars.

> When the
>Lord Jesus Christ described His coming again in Luke 17:34-36 He implied
>that He knew about a round earth. He stated that different people on
>earth would experience night, morning, and midday at the same time as His
>appearing. This is possible because the spherical earth is rotating on
>its axis which allows the sun to shine on these different areas(times).

I think you meant a different passage.

>The knowledgable ancients who wrote down what God told and showed them did
>not believe in a flat earth. This is another fable made up by the
>God-haters and has no basis in truth.

How about the folded sky?


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