Bible Discussion: Why The Unbeliever Cannot Understand

Why The Unbeliever Cannot Understand
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IknowHimDoYou
2003-10-10 11:46:48 EST
Why the Unbeliever Cannot Understand

When Christians talk to unbelievers they must realize that it is "utterly
impossible to present true Christianity to them in such a way as to make
it appear logical and pleasing to them. To the extent that we attempt to
do this, to that same extent are we tempted to modify the Gospel
message(especially in such areas as Biblical inspiration, supernatural
creation, genuine miracles, human depravity, salvation by grace, and
separation from the world) and thus deny and distort it." Whitcomb.

No one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit( I Cor 12:3),
for the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for
they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they
are spiritually decerned" (I Cor 2:14) We are not to try and convince men
of their need for we are only commisionied to present the message of the
Gospel(I Cor 15). The convincing and convicting is the province of the
Holy Spirit who calls and draws them to Himself. On the other hand we are
to be ready always with an answer to those who ask what is the reason for
the hope that lies within us which is the presence of the Lord Jesus
Christ.This visual hope is the outcome of our walking with Him in
obedience and commitment through His grace by His faith and should be
observable to the world.

Zachriel
2003-10-10 11:57:01 EST

"IknowHimDoYou" <IknowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IknowHim-1010030846480001@pm8-15.kalama.com...
> Why the Unbeliever Cannot Understand
>
> When Christians talk to unbelievers they must realize that it is "utterly
> impossible to present true Christianity to them in such a way as to make
> it appear logical and pleasing to them. To the extent that we attempt to
> do this, to that same extent are we tempted to modify the Gospel
> message(especially in such areas as Biblical inspiration, supernatural
> creation, genuine miracles, human depravity, salvation by grace, and
> separation from the world) and thus deny and distort it." Whitcomb.

So finally you have come to your senses. Religious belief must be accepted
on faith, not science. So hopefully, you will quit distorting science to
support your religious beliefs.


>
> No one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit( I Cor 12:3),
> for the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for
> they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they
> are spiritually decerned" (I Cor 2:14) We are not to try and convince men
> of their need for we are only commisionied to present the message of the
> Gospel(I Cor 15). The convincing and convicting is the province of the
> Holy Spirit who calls and draws them to Himself. On the other hand we are
> to be ready always with an answer to those who ask what is the reason for
> the hope that lies within us which is the presence of the Lord Jesus
> Christ.This visual hope is the outcome of our walking with Him in
> obedience and commitment through His grace by His faith and should be
> observable to the world.



David Jensen
2003-10-10 12:04:49 EST
In alt.talk.creationism, IknowHim@leavingsoon.com (IknowHimDoYou) wrote
in <IknowHim-1010030846480001@pm8-15.kalama.com>:

>Why the Unbeliever Cannot Understand

First, I cannot understand why you think you need to crosspost this to
alt.talk.creationism, alt.bible, alt.religion.christian,
alt.religion.christian.baptist, alt.religion.christian-teen,
alt.religion.christian.roman-catholic, alt.religion.christianity, and
alt.religion.christian.biblestudy, so I've set the followups to
alt.talk.creationism. Secondly, I cannot understand why you make
sweeping statements but neither try to defend them when people show that
your statements are wrong or acknowledge that you have made a mistake
and learn from it. You may know someone, but it isn't at all clear to me
that you know what Jesus taught.

>When Christians talk to unbelievers they must realize that it is "utterly
>impossible to present true Christianity to them in such a way as to make
>it appear logical and pleasing to them. To the extent that we attempt to
>do this, to that same extent are we tempted to modify the Gospel
>message(especially in such areas as Biblical inspiration, supernatural
>creation, genuine miracles, human depravity, salvation by grace, and
>separation from the world) and thus deny and distort it." Whitcomb.

Thanks for confirming that you teach a cruel parody of Christianity.

>No one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit( I Cor 12:3),
>for the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for
>they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they
>are spiritually decerned" (I Cor 2:14) We are not to try and convince men
>of their need for we are only commisionied to present the message of the
>Gospel(I Cor 15). The convincing and convicting is the province of the
>Holy Spirit who calls and draws them to Himself. On the other hand we are
>to be ready always with an answer to those who ask what is the reason for
>the hope that lies within us which is the presence of the Lord Jesus
>Christ.This visual hope is the outcome of our walking with Him in
>obedience and commitment through His grace by His faith and should be
>observable to the world.

We do not ask you to try to convince us of the Gospel. We ask you to
explain why you misrepresent evolution, lie about science, bear false
witness against scientists and insist that you are inerrant in your
interpretation of the Bible. We ask you to defend your claims or admit
that you have repeated falsehoods. We ask you why you tell lies about
what others teach, whether Christian denominations or others.

Right now, you do nothing but chitter on like a chipmunk, unable to say
anything sensible or accurate. You are a modern version of the Pharisees
as they were presented in the Gospels: full of self-righteousness,
incapable of understanding what Jesus was trying to teach people, and
willing to condemn all who refuse to accept your teachings.

Why not learn something about science and religion before posting again.
Your ignorance does you no good.
--

Often a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens,
and the other parts of the world, about the motions and orbits of
the stars and even their sizes and distances,... and this knowledge
he holds with certainty from reason and experience. It is thus
offensive and disgraceful for an unbeliever to hear a Christian talk
nonsense about such things, claiming that what he is saying is based
in Scripture. We should do all that we can to avoid such an
embarrassing situation, lest the unbeliever see only ignorance in
the Christian and laugh to scorn.
- St. Augustine, "De Genesi ad litteram libri duodecim"

John Ings
2003-10-10 12:09:55 EST
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:46:48 -0700, IknowHim@leavingsoon.com
(IknowHimDoYou) wrote:

>Why the Unbeliever Cannot Understand
>
>When Christians talk to unbelievers they must realize that it is "utterly
>impossible to present true Christianity to them in such a way as to make
>it appear logical and pleasing to them.

Because Christianity isn't logical.

> To the extent that we attempt to
>do this, to that same extent are we tempted to modify the Gospel
>message

By trying to make it sound logical when it isn't.

>(especially in such areas as Biblical inspiration,

Inconsistent and contrary from inspiree to inspiree.

>supernatural creation,

Postulated but without a shred of evidence.

>genuine miracles,

Where? When?

> human depravity,

First sell the disease...

> salvation by grace,

Then sell the cure and pass the collection plate.

>and separation from the world) and thus deny and distort it." Whitcomb.

You have to admit it's pretty easily denied.

>No one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit( I Cor 12:3),

A form of self-delusion.

>for the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for
>they are foolishness to him,

Or to any reasoning person.

>and he cannot understand them, because they
>are spiritually decerned"

Differently and contrarily by every discerner.

>(I Cor 2:14) We are not to try and convince men
>of their need for we are only commisionied to present the message of the
>Gospel(I Cor 15). The convincing and convicting is the province of the
>Holy Spirit who calls and draws them to Himself. On the other hand we are
>to be ready always with an answer to those who ask what is the reason for
>the hope that lies within us which is the presence of the Lord Jesus
>Christ. This visual hope is the outcome of our walking with Him in
>obedience and commitment through His grace by His faith and should be
>observable to the world.

Yes, we observe your Christian love and charity for one another here
in these newsgroups. 'By their fruit ye shall know them' is the key
isn't it? So when we see all the intolerance between Christians, the
snarling dogfights over what the Holy Spirit has inspired in each, the
accusations of apostasy and heresy, we recognize the fruits of the
Gospel message.


## God ain't so bad. It's his fan clubs that will drive you crazy!



Don
2003-10-10 12:14:02 EST
On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:46:48 -0700, IknowHim@leavingsoon.com
(IknowHimDoYou) wrote:

>Why the Unbeliever Cannot Understand
>
>When Christians talk to unbelievers they must realize that it is "utterly
>impossible to present true Christianity to them in such a way as to make
>it appear logical and pleasing to them.

1) Define "true Christianity."
2) Where is the command to make "true Christianity" appear logical?
3) Where is the command to make "true Christianity" appear pleasing?

> We are not to try and convince men
>of their need for we are only commisionied to present the message of the
>Gospel(I Cor 15).

Nor are you supposed to SPAM newsgroups with this constant barrage of
non-original articles. If you want to post this plagiarized material,
get a web page.

>The convincing and convicting is the province of the
>Holy Spirit who calls and draws them to Himself. On the other hand we are
>to be ready always with an answer to those who ask what is the reason for
>the hope that lies within us which is the presence of the Lord Jesus
>Christ.This visual hope is the outcome of our walking with Him in
>obedience and commitment through His grace by His faith and should be
>observable to the world.

So do you think you could have added any more cliches to the above
paragraph?


Qualem blennum!

Josh
2003-10-10 19:08:03 EST
It isn't a question of why the Unbeliever Cannot Understand. Replace the
biased word 'unbeliever' with 'neutral person'. 'Unbeliever' implies a
person who is refusing to understand. If, as a neutral person, I start
reading the Bible, it's not long before I have to give up because it doesn't
make sense. Example? Different accounts of the resurrection. This
critical event runs to four versions. They cannot all be right; three must
be wrong (or all wrong, of course). Therefore the bible is saying something
that is wrong. But Christians say it is the word of God.

On this one example alone, the Bible fails the truth test. It is either the
exact word of God or it isnt. It isn't. Bin it.



Gaffo
2003-10-10 22:34:34 EST
IknowHimDoYou wrote:

> Why the Unbeliever Cannot Understand
>
> When Christians talk to unbelievers they must realize that it is "utterly
> impossible to present true Christianity to them in such a way as to make
> it appear logical and pleasing to them. To the extent that we attempt to
> do this, to that same extent are we tempted to modify the Gospel
> message(especially in such areas as Biblical inspiration, supernatural
> creation, genuine miracles, human depravity, salvation by grace, and
> separation from the world) and thus deny and distort it." Whitcomb.
>
> No one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit( I Cor 12:3),
> for the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for
> they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they
> are spiritually decerned" (I Cor 2:14) We are not to try and convince men
> of their need for we are only commisionied to present the message of the
> Gospel(I Cor 15). The convincing and convicting is the province of the
> Holy Spirit who calls and draws them to Himself. On the other hand we are
> to be ready always with an answer to those who ask what is the reason for
> the hope that lies within us which is the presence of the Lord Jesus
> Christ.This visual hope is the outcome of our walking with Him in
> obedience and commitment through His grace by His faith and should be
> observable to the world.


ok.


Thore Schmechtig
2003-10-11 04:13:33 EST
> Why the Unbeliever Cannot Understand

The answer is easy: The "Unbeliever" cannot understand the
_fundamentalist_ because the fundie routinely lies and ignores every
hint at his claims not possibly being true, even the most well-meaning
hints.

And you know it. Your bigot attitude, your blind and dumb fanaticism
betrays your desperation. Yeah, you _know_ that "we" are right and you
know it because you are utterly unable to counter even one single
statement of ours with words that are not obviously untrue.

You're on the losing side. Face it and live with it.

For a change:

TOP TEN SIGNS YOU'RE A CHRISTIAN (FUNDAMENTALIST - added by Tocis)

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of
gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when
someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists
say that people evolved from other life forms, but you
have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were
created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem
believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the
"atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even
flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all
the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the
elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" --
including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and
Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have
no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated
Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed,
came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little
loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth
(4.55 billion years), but you find nothing wrong with
believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting
in their tents and guessing that Earth is a couple of
generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet
with the exception of those who share your beliefs --
though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend
Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet
consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and
physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot
rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be
all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it
comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be
evidence that prayer works. And you think that the
remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and
agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church
history - but still call yourself a Christian.

Galia
2003-10-11 09:02:08 EST

"Thore Schmechtig" <WRITETOcommoner@carcosa.de> wrote in message
news:bm8e43$k3e1j$3@ID-87341.news.uni-berlin.de...
> You're on the losing side. Face it and live with it.

Only by dying in battle, with sword or axe in hand and courage in the heart,

can an Aesir find his way to Valhalla, the after-life paradise sought by all
Norsemen.

***You think you'll be man enough to die with courage in your heart??***

Naaaah, Schrecklich, you're to much of coward!






IknowHimDoYou
2003-10-11 12:21:14 EST
In article <voeeugc1u0j532@corp.supernews.com>, "Josh"
<*h@ABCjillywoods.karoo.co.uk> wrote:

> It isn't a question of why the Unbeliever Cannot Understand. Replace the
> biased word 'unbeliever' with 'neutral person'. 'Unbeliever' implies a
> person who is refusing to understand. If, as a neutral person, I start
> reading the Bible, it's not long before I have to give up because it doesn't
> make sense. Example? Different accounts of the resurrection. This
> critical event runs to four versions. They cannot all be right; three must
> be wrong (or all wrong, of course). Therefore the bible is saying something
> that is wrong. But Christians say it is the word of God.
>
> On this one example alone, the Bible fails the truth test. It is either the
> exact word of God or it isnt. It isn't. Bin it.
_________________________________________________________________

Well, that is your opinion.

How would you know what the "exact" Word of God is?

What tests would you apply since you are sitting in judgement other than
one fallacious observation?

BTW, there are no "neutral persons".
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