Bible Discussion: The Nicene Creed

The Nicene Creed
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IknowHimDoYou
2003-10-08 17:13:02 EST
The Nicene Creed

Some wag has posted that all he needs is the Nicene creed but can do
without the Bible to be a Christian. This magnatude of ignorance is
astounding!

There would be no Nicene, Apostle's or Athenasian creeds without the
Scriptures. The Bible was intact long before any of these creeds were
even written and each creed gives a thumbnail description of what the
Bible says to us in our relationship with God. If you take away the
Bible, which is God's communication to us, you are left with only
cults(which is where we are today with most sects). The only authority
left is that of man and he is most falllable and undependable. This
action leads only to the modern Church of St. Vitus.

Luke Johnston
2003-10-08 23:17:34 EST
Sir,
I agree. I also believe in a daily, personal relationship with God. This
requires daily prayer and reading of the bible. It also requires weekly
fellowship with other Christians. How can you know God's will if you don't
know Him? The only way to get to know him is through prayer, meeting with
other Chrisitians, and reading His Word.

However, if this person who claims he can get by with the Nicene creed has
received the gift of salvation (which I doubt he has) he is looked is saved,
forever, regardless of what he says or does. However, it wouldn't be very
Christ-like if he spread the news that the God's Word wasn't needed, would
it?

Sincerely,
Luke Johnston
l*n@cableone.net
"IknowHimDoYou" <IknowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
news:IknowHim-0810031413020001@pm4-08.kalama.com...
> The Nicene Creed
>
> Some wag has posted that all he needs is the Nicene creed but can do
> without the Bible to be a Christian. This magnatude of ignorance is
> astounding!
>
> There would be no Nicene, Apostle's or Athenasian creeds without the
> Scriptures. The Bible was intact long before any of these creeds were
> even written and each creed gives a thumbnail description of what the
> Bible says to us in our relationship with God. If you take away the
> Bible, which is God's communication to us, you are left with only
> cults(which is where we are today with most sects). The only authority
> left is that of man and he is most falllable and undependable. This
> action leads only to the modern Church of St. Vitus.




David Jensen
2003-10-08 23:47:01 EST
In alt.talk.creationism, "Luke Johnston" <lukejohnston@cableone.net>
wrote in <vo9kqc616mrq5d@corp.supernews.com>:

>Sir,
>I agree. I also believe in a daily, personal relationship with God. This
>requires daily prayer and reading of the bible. It also requires weekly
>fellowship with other Christians. How can you know God's will if you don't
>know Him? The only way to get to know him is through prayer, meeting with
>other Chrisitians, and reading His Word.

How do you know that it is God's will even after that? Why isn't it
something you persuaded yourself of or the will of Satan? What objective
test do you use?

>However, if this person who claims he can get by with the Nicene creed has
>received the gift of salvation (which I doubt he has) he is looked is saved,
>forever, regardless of what he says or does. However, it wouldn't be very
>Christ-like if he spread the news that the God's Word wasn't needed, would
>it?

No one made the claim. IKHDY has serious reading comprehension problems.
The point of the creeds was to head off heresies within Christianity.
Those who reject the creeds are essentially announcing that they are
heretics.

>Sincerely,
>Luke Johnston
>*n@cableone.net
>"IknowHimDoYou" <IknowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
>news:IknowHim-0810031413020001@pm4-08.kalama.com...
>> The Nicene Creed
>>
>> Some wag has posted that all he needs is the Nicene creed but can do
>> without the Bible to be a Christian. This magnatude of ignorance is
>> astounding!

No one claimed this.

>> There would be no Nicene, Apostle's or Athenasian creeds without the
>> Scriptures. The Bible was intact long before any of these creeds were
>> even written and each creed gives a thumbnail description of what the
>> Bible says to us in our relationship with God. If you take away the
>> Bible, which is God's communication to us, you are left with only
>> cults(which is where we are today with most sects). The only authority
>> left is that of man and he is most falllable and undependable. This
>> action leads only to the modern Church of St. Vitus.

Luke Johnston
2003-10-09 00:06:37 EST
Sir,
How do I know the difference between the will of God and the will of Satan?
I know the character of God. Like I said, reading His Word is an essential
part to being a healthy Christian. It tells us his will. You don't use an
objective test. I can always tell when Satan or myself are trying to
persuade me to do something. It goes against everything that is Christian.
The flesh can only do deeds of the flesh, and the Spirit can only do deeds
of the Spirit. So, when you are a Christian, you learn to recognize the
difference between fleshly desires, and the will of God.

Just out of curiosity though: are you posting on all of these religious
boards to cause offense and discord? It seems to me that is your goal. It
would be a good thing if you clarified your intentions.

Sincerely,
Luke Johnston
l*n@cableone.net
P.S. - If you want to have scripture verses to back up my post, email me. I
welcome it gladly.


"David Jensen" <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in message
news:9cm9ov84rfnjffnr6rumnleo3k7u4r1gnm@4ax.com...
> In alt.talk.creationism, "Luke Johnston" <lukejohnston@cableone.net>
> wrote in <vo9kqc616mrq5d@corp.supernews.com>:
>
> >Sir,
> >I agree. I also believe in a daily, personal relationship with God.
This
> >requires daily prayer and reading of the bible. It also requires weekly
> >fellowship with other Christians. How can you know God's will if you
don't
> >know Him? The only way to get to know him is through prayer, meeting
with
> >other Chrisitians, and reading His Word.
>
> How do you know that it is God's will even after that? Why isn't it
> something you persuaded yourself of or the will of Satan? What objective
> test do you use?
>
> >However, if this person who claims he can get by with the Nicene creed
has
> >received the gift of salvation (which I doubt he has) he is looked is
saved,
> >forever, regardless of what he says or does. However, it wouldn't be
very
> >Christ-like if he spread the news that the God's Word wasn't needed,
would
> >it?
>
> No one made the claim. IKHDY has serious reading comprehension problems.
> The point of the creeds was to head off heresies within Christianity.
> Those who reject the creeds are essentially announcing that they are
> heretics.
>
> >Sincerely,
> >Luke Johnston
> >lukejohnston@cableone.net
> >"IknowHimDoYou" <IknowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
> >news:IknowHim-0810031413020001@pm4-08.kalama.com...
> >> The Nicene Creed
> >>
> >> Some wag has posted that all he needs is the Nicene creed but can do
> >> without the Bible to be a Christian. This magnatude of ignorance is
> >> astounding!
>
> No one claimed this.
>
> >> There would be no Nicene, Apostle's or Athenasian creeds without the
> >> Scriptures. The Bible was intact long before any of these creeds were
> >> even written and each creed gives a thumbnail description of what the
> >> Bible says to us in our relationship with God. If you take away the
> >> Bible, which is God's communication to us, you are left with only
> >> cults(which is where we are today with most sects). The only
authority
> >> left is that of man and he is most falllable and undependable. This
> >> action leads only to the modern Church of St. Vitus.



David Jensen
2003-10-09 00:18:44 EST
In alt.talk.creationism, "Luke Johnston" <lukejohnston@cableone.net>
wrote in <vo9nmd3rh9le64@corp.supernews.com>:

>Sir,
>How do I know the difference between the will of God and the will of Satan?
>I know the character of God.

But God has many characters in the Bible. He is willing to take bets
with Satan (Job). He is vindictive (Flood). He is intolerant
(Amelekites). He discriminates against women (Mosaic law). His
punishment is out of proportion to the crime (Bears mauling kids).
Certainly He is said to do many kind and wonderful things, too, but all
in all, you cannot tell me what the character of God is from the Bible.

>Like I said, reading His Word is an essential
>part to being a healthy Christian. It tells us his will.

You assume that the Bible does tell us God's will. You cannot provide
any evidence for that claim. You rely on your faith, and nothing else,
to accept the doctrines that you accept and teach.

>You don't use an objective test.

Why not? Subjective tests are notoriously easy to manipulate.

>I can always tell when Satan or myself are trying to
>persuade me to do something. It goes against everything that is Christian.

Well, I'm convinced that lying about the origins of the universe goes
against Christianity, but Young Earth Creationists lie about it
regularly and they claim to be Christian. I'm convinced from Jesus's
teachings that intolerance and self-righteousness are sins, but we have
a whole passel of self-described Christians whose approach to
Christianity seems closer to the Pharisees as described in the Bible
than the teachings of Jesus.

>The flesh can only do deeds of the flesh, and the Spirit can only do deeds
>of the Spirit. So, when you are a Christian, you learn to recognize the
>difference between fleshly desires, and the will of God.

But it's a mystery to outsiders, so they can't understand. Lots of
religions make that claim. It's a sucker claim.

>Just out of curiosity though: are you posting on all of these religious
>boards to cause offense and discord? It seems to me that is your goal. It
>would be a good thing if you clarified your intentions.

I post from alt.talk.creationism. I did not add any of the other
newsgroups, but I didn't delete them either. This thread has drifted.

>Sincerely,
>Luke Johnston
>*n@cableone.net
>P.S. - If you want to have scripture verses to back up my post, email me. I
>welcome it gladly.

Since you have no evidence that scripture reflects the will of God, the
verses are meaningless as evidence. They are part of _faith_ only.

>"David Jensen" <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in message
>news:9cm9ov84rfnjffnr6rumnleo3k7u4r1gnm@4ax.com...
>> In alt.talk.creationism, "Luke Johnston" <lukejohnston@cableone.net>
>> wrote in <vo9kqc616mrq5d@corp.supernews.com>:
>>
>> >Sir,
>> >I agree. I also believe in a daily, personal relationship with God.
>This
>> >requires daily prayer and reading of the bible. It also requires weekly
>> >fellowship with other Christians. How can you know God's will if you
>don't
>> >know Him? The only way to get to know him is through prayer, meeting
>with
>> >other Chrisitians, and reading His Word.
>>
>> How do you know that it is God's will even after that? Why isn't it
>> something you persuaded yourself of or the will of Satan? What objective
>> test do you use?
>>
>> >However, if this person who claims he can get by with the Nicene creed
>has
>> >received the gift of salvation (which I doubt he has) he is looked is
>saved,
>> >forever, regardless of what he says or does. However, it wouldn't be
>very
>> >Christ-like if he spread the news that the God's Word wasn't needed,
>would
>> >it?
>>
>> No one made the claim. IKHDY has serious reading comprehension problems.
>> The point of the creeds was to head off heresies within Christianity.
>> Those who reject the creeds are essentially announcing that they are
>> heretics.
>>
>> >Sincerely,
>> >Luke Johnston
>> >lukejohnston@cableone.net
>> >"IknowHimDoYou" <IknowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
>> >news:IknowHim-0810031413020001@pm4-08.kalama.com...
>> >> The Nicene Creed
>> >>
>> >> Some wag has posted that all he needs is the Nicene creed but can do
>> >> without the Bible to be a Christian. This magnatude of ignorance is
>> >> astounding!
>>
>> No one claimed this.
>>
>> >> There would be no Nicene, Apostle's or Athenasian creeds without the
>> >> Scriptures. The Bible was intact long before any of these creeds were
>> >> even written and each creed gives a thumbnail description of what the
>> >> Bible says to us in our relationship with God. If you take away the
>> >> Bible, which is God's communication to us, you are left with only
>> >> cults(which is where we are today with most sects). The only
>authority
>> >> left is that of man and he is most falllable and undependable. This
>> >> action leads only to the modern Church of St. Vitus.
>


Flora Macdonald
2003-10-09 04:41:21 EST
I*m@leavingsoon.com (IknowHimDoYou) wrote in message news:<IknowHim-0810031413020001@pm4-08.kalama.com>...
> The Nicene Creed
>
> Some wag has posted that all he needs is the Nicene creed but can do
> without the Bible to be a Christian. This magnatude of ignorance is
> astounding!
>
> There would be no Nicene, Apostle's or Athenasian creeds without the
> Scriptures. The Bible was intact long before any of these creeds were
> even written and each creed gives a thumbnail description of what the
> Bible says to us in our relationship with God. If you take away the
> Bible, which is God's communication to us, you are left with only
> cults(which is where we are today with most sects). The only authority
> left is that of man and he is most falllable and undependable. This
> action leads only to the modern Church of St. Vitus.

One of the most significant factors in the Nicene Creed as a basis for
Christian Doctrine is the fact that the bishop of Rome did not have
any input into the Doctrine.

He was invited by The Emperor and Pope (Ponifex Maximus) Constantine,
but did not attend.

Flora

Ninure Saunders
2003-10-09 09:08:12 EST
In article <IknowHim-0810031413020001@pm4-08.kalama.com>,
I*m@leavingsoon.com (IknowHimDoYou) wrote:

-The Nicene Creed
-
-Some wag has posted that all he needs is the Nicene creed but can do
-without the Bible to be a Christian. This magnatude of ignorance is
-astounding!
-
-There would be no Nicene, Apostle's or Athenasian creeds without the
-Scriptures. The Bible was intact long before any of these creeds were
-even written and each creed gives a thumbnail description of what the
-Bible says to us in our relationship with God. If you take away the
-Bible, which is God's communication to us, you are left with only
-cults(which is where we are today with most sects). The only authority
-left is that of man and he is most falllable and undependable. This
-action leads only to the modern Church of St. Vitus.

Here is the Nicene Creed:

The Nicene Creed



We believe in one God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and
of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of
the Father before all worlds, God of God, Light of Light, Very God of Very
God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father by whom
all things were made; who for us men, and for our salvation, came down
from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary, and
was made man, and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate. He
suffered and was buried, and the third day he rose again according to the
Scriptures, and ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of the
Father. And he shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the
dead, whose kingdom shall have no end.

And we believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of Life, who
proceedeth from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son
together is worshipped and glorified, who spoke by the prophets. And we
believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism
for the remission of sins. And we look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come.

Amen.

=========

Where in the Creed does it require a A belief in the Scriptures as
necessary to "be a Christian"?


And how did the Bible become the 4th Person of the Godhead..that is why do
you say the Bible is the Word of God when the Bible itself says that the
Word of God is the Sin of God?

(See the 1st Chapter of John)

Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk

My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk

My Online Diary
http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org

To send e-mail, remove nohate from address

Mary Branham
2003-10-09 10:28:28 EST

"David Jensen" <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in message
news:9cm9ov84rfnjffnr6rumnleo3k7u4r1gnm@4ax.com...
> ......The point of the creeds was to head off heresies within
Christianity.
> Those who reject the creeds are essentially announcing that they are
> heretics.

The third definition of "heresy" in Webster's New Dictionary of the English
Language (2001 ed) is: "dissent from a dominant opinion, theory, or
practice" as well as the first two definitions which have to do with holding
a different viewpoint from that of "The Church"......

I am a heretic, in the sense that I do not believe everything that comes off
of every pulpit. I don't even hold with everything that comes off of the
pulpit of the church I used to attend. It's not the doctrine I necessarily
have a problem with - it's the politics engaged in to ensure that those
doctrines are followed to the letter, which is not possible anyway, since we
are all made of sinful flesh and cannot be perfect in this life.

But my point is, being able to think for oneself and closely scrutinizing
the teachings that come out of the four walls of whichever church one
chooses to attend, and eventually disagreeing somewhat with those teachings,
might make one a heretic.

My soul, my salvation, is worth that much. I'm a free moral agent, not a
lemming.

Mary Branham



IknowHimDoYou
2003-10-09 11:51:06 EST

The person you are addressing is one of the wags who does not accept God's
Word but only accepts what fallible man tells him.

The creeds are indeed a sumation of the major points of faith but that is
all that they are.

____________________________________________________________________


In article <vo9nmd3rh9le64@corp.supernews.com>, "Luke Johnston"
<*n@cableone.net> wrote:

> Sir,
> How do I know the difference between the will of God and the will of Satan?
> I know the character of God. Like I said, reading His Word is an essential
> part to being a healthy Christian. It tells us his will. You don't use an
> objective test. I can always tell when Satan or myself are trying to
> persuade me to do something. It goes against everything that is Christian.
> The flesh can only do deeds of the flesh, and the Spirit can only do deeds
> of the Spirit. So, when you are a Christian, you learn to recognize the
> difference between fleshly desires, and the will of God.
>
> Just out of curiosity though: are you posting on all of these religious
> boards to cause offense and discord? It seems to me that is your goal. It
> would be a good thing if you clarified your intentions.
>
> Sincerely,
> Luke Johnston
> lukejohnston@cableone.net
> P.S. - If you want to have scripture verses to back up my post, email me. I
> welcome it gladly.
>
>
> "David Jensen" <david@dajensen-family.com> wrote in message
> news:9cm9ov84rfnjffnr6rumnleo3k7u4r1gnm@4ax.com...
> > In alt.talk.creationism, "Luke Johnston" <lukejohnston@cableone.net>
> > wrote in <vo9kqc616mrq5d@corp.supernews.com>:
> >
> > >Sir,
> > >I agree. I also believe in a daily, personal relationship with God.
> This
> > >requires daily prayer and reading of the bible. It also requires weekly
> > >fellowship with other Christians. How can you know God's will if you
> don't
> > >know Him? The only way to get to know him is through prayer, meeting
> with
> > >other Chrisitians, and reading His Word.
> >
> > How do you know that it is God's will even after that? Why isn't it
> > something you persuaded yourself of or the will of Satan? What objective
> > test do you use?
> >
> > >However, if this person who claims he can get by with the Nicene creed
> has
> > >received the gift of salvation (which I doubt he has) he is looked is
> saved,
> > >forever, regardless of what he says or does. However, it wouldn't be
> very
> > >Christ-like if he spread the news that the God's Word wasn't needed,
> would
> > >it?
> >
> > No one made the claim. IKHDY has serious reading comprehension problems.
> > The point of the creeds was to head off heresies within Christianity.
> > Those who reject the creeds are essentially announcing that they are
> > heretics.
> >
> > >Sincerely,
> > >Luke Johnston
> > >lukejohnston@cableone.net
> > >"IknowHimDoYou" <IknowHim@leavingsoon.com> wrote in message
> > >news:IknowHim-0810031413020001@pm4-08.kalama.com...
> > >> The Nicene Creed
> > >>
> > >> Some wag has posted that all he needs is the Nicene creed but can do
> > >> without the Bible to be a Christian. This magnatude of ignorance is
> > >> astounding!
> >
> > No one claimed this.
> >
> > >> There would be no Nicene, Apostle's or Athenasian creeds without the
> > >> Scriptures. The Bible was intact long before any of these creeds were
> > >> even written and each creed gives a thumbnail description of what the
> > >> Bible says to us in our relationship with God. If you take away the
> > >> Bible, which is God's communication to us, you are left with only
> > >> cults(which is where we are today with most sects). The only
> authority
> > >> left is that of man and he is most falllable and undependable. This
> > >> action leads only to the modern Church of St. Vitus.

David Jensen
2003-10-09 13:02:40 EST
In alt.talk.creationism, IknowHim@leavingsoon.com (IknowHimDoYou) wrote
in <IknowHim-0910030851060001@pm6-39.kalama.com>:

>
>The person you are addressing is one of the wags who does not accept God's
>Word but only accepts what fallible man tells him.

Men told you that the scriptures you accept are God's Word. Since you
insist (correctly) that men are fallible, why do you insist that you are
infallible in understanding these words which are claimed to be God's?

>The creeds are indeed a sumation of the major points of faith but that is
>all that they are.

But they are also the definition of Christianity. Those who reject the
creeds are declaring that they do not accept the teachings of
Christianity.
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