Bible Discussion: Why The Sabbath Is A Principle

Why The Sabbath Is A Principle
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Bear163
2003-10-01 00:45:04 EST
Devotional Guide

For the week of September 28, 2003



LIVING FOR FOREVER



Why the Sabbath is a principle





To Read: Jeremiah 4-6





To Know:



"One man esteems one day as better than another, while another man esteems
all days alike. Let every one be fully convinced in his own mind." (Rm.14:
5)



Workaholic is our word for Sabbath breaker. Workaholics will not rest. The
Sabbath day was the divine sign that the Old Covenant people belonged to the
Lord. "And the Lord said to Moses, 'Say to the people of Israel, 'You shall
keep my sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your
generations, that you may know that I, the Lord, sanctify you.'" (Ex.31:
12,13) The lesson that the Sabbath was meant to teach God's people was that
they are flesh and he is God. The Sabbath as a sign of belonging to God
ended with the dawn of the New Covenant era. Some refused to believe that
they no longer needed to esteem the Sabbath Day above all the others. Others
estimated all days the same. The Apostle Paul had no law to pronounce on the
matter. In Christ the Sabbath was a principle, not a parameter.



The sabbatical principle is that of rest. Jesus said, "The Sabbath was made
for man, and not man for the Sabbath." It is vital that we live our lives in
Christ and not in our own strength. By design we were made to need
restoration every day. That is why, by his grace, God gives to his beloved
sleep. None of us can carry the weight of the world on our shoulders. We who
have our faith in the name of Jesus Christ are to manifest his presence,
power and purpose by all that we say and do. Rest restores us. We rest by
ceasing from our labors. Also we are restored when we make time to worship
the Lord week by week.





To Do:



To keep the Sabbath is to understand that we are called to rest in the Lord.
We are to live our life in dependence of God's good will for us.





To Ask:



Father, Let me not be tempted to live as if the outcome of my life and work
depended on me. Give me rest.







10013$-10013





Donna Kupp
2003-10-01 14:28:45 EST
"bear163" <bear163@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<kZseb.10900$NX3.5993@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>...

(This post is a cross-post because I am answering bear's post
to muliple groups.) In his post, he used Romans 14:5-6 as if
it applied to the Sabbath. Here, I will prove that Romans 14:5-6
has nothing to do with the Sabbath.

Bear quotes Romans 14:5-6:

> "One man esteems one day as better than another, while another man esteems
> all days alike. Let every one be fully convinced in his own mind." (Rm.14:
> 5)

THE CHURCHMEN vs THE SABBATH
and
FUTILE AND USEFUL FASTS

Many churchmen use Romans 14:5-6 as proof that New
Testament believers no longer have an obligation to keep
the Sabbath day holy. So let us examine those two verses,
just as a Judge would consider evidence in his courtroom,
and then decide whether or not they testify against Sabbath
keeping. Paul wrote:

"One man esteemeth one day above another: another
esteemeth every day alike. Let very man be fully
persuaded in his own mind.

He that regardeth [observeth] the day regardeth it unto
the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord
he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the
Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not,
to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks."
Romans 14:5-6

The Judge would ask: "Where is the Sabbath mentioned in
those verses?". The Sabbath is not mentioned there, nor in
the entire book of Romans! No court in the land would
allow verses that do not mention the Sabbath to be used as
evidence in an argument against the Sabbath - so why
should we?

You see, Paul could not have been talking about keeping
the Sabbath day holy because obedience to God's law is not
optional. It is ludicrous to suggest that any of the Ten
Commandments can be disobeyed "unto the Lord". Think
of the absurdity of saying "He that stealeth, to the Lord he
stealeth; and he that stealeth not, to the Lord he stealeth
not."

What then was Paul talking about? He was talking about
fast days. The whole 14th chapter of Romans is about food
and how people's beliefs about eating should not be
interfered with. The fast days could be observed according
to each believer's conscience. A man could eat -or not eat,
keep the day - or not keep it. It is as simple as this: Each
man could observe FAST DAYS, or not observe them,
according to his own convictions.

He that does not eat, regards the day.

He that eats, does not regard the day.

The "days" that Paul was referring to were the traditional
fast days mentioned in Zechariah 7:5-6. The Gentile
Christians in Rome did not keep them because they had no
cultural interest in the anniversary fasts that were observed
during the Jew's captivity in Babylon. *1

Even the Jews themselves had different convictions about
the observance of those days - because those fasts were
never commanded by God.

After the captivity (when the temple was being rebuilt) the
men of Bethel also wondered if they should observe these
fasts unto the Lord. For example, they asked Zechariah:
"Shall I weep in the fifth month and abstain, as I have done
these many years?" (Zech 7:2-3.)

When you read Zechariah's answer, notice the striking
similarity of his words with those of Paul to the church at
Rome ...

COMPARE Zechariah 7:5-6
"...When ye FASTED and mourned in the
fifth and seventh month, even those seventy years,
DID YE AT ALL FAST UNTO ME, even to me
[The Lord]?

And when ye did EAT, and when ye did drink, did ye
not EAT FOR YOURSELVES, and drink for
yourselves?"

WITH Romans 14:6-7 "He that regardeth the [fast] day
regardeth it UNTO THE LORD; and he that
regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not
regard it.

He that EATETH, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth
God thanks; and he that EATETH NOT, to the Lord
he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

For none of us LIVETH TO HIMSELF, and no man
dieth to himself."

If you were the Judge in the case of the CHURCHMEN
VERSUS THE SABBATH, would you be willing to say
that Paul had cancelled one of the commandments of God
based on the evidence you find in the 14th chapter of
Romans?

In our opinion, the evidence from Romans and Zechariah
demands a verdict for Sabbath observance. The church
must obey the Fourth Commandment and that is the only
decision that will uphold the Law of God. *2

CASE CLOSED!

* Footnotes:

1 These are the four traditional fasts that were mentioned
in the book of Zechariah:

1. (The fast of the fourth month) In remembrance of the
breaking of the wall of Jerusalem.
2. (The fast of the fifth month) In remembrance of the
burning of the temple.
3. (The fast of the seventh month) In remembrance of the
killing of Gedaliah, which completed the dispersion.
4. (The fast of the tenth month) In remembrance of the
beginning of the siege of Jerusalem.

See - Jer 52:6, Jer 52:12-13, 2 Kings 25:25, 2 Kings 25:1

It is of interest to note that those dates commemorate the
judgments of God upon a people who refused to keep the
Sabbath Day holy. (See Jer 17:19-27)

2 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt
thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is
the sabbath of the LORD thy God..." Ex 20:8-10


Part II FUTILE AND USEFUL FASTS

There are two kinds of fasts; the fasts unto ourselves
(which are futile) and the fasts unto the Lord (which are
useful).

Futile fasts come from a selfish motive. Some are simply
hunger strikes that are contrived to influence God so He
will give us what we want --or soften his punishment for our
disobedience.

Zachariah rebuked the men of Bethel for the way the Jews
had observed their fasts during the captivity. They mourned
the loss of their temple, its riches, and the desolations of
Jerusalem but neglected the condition of their hearts.

Without a broken and contrite heart, fasting becomes a
cloak for sin. So the men, who were rebuilding Jerusalem,
were told to listen to the former prophets who demanded
obedience to God's law. (Zech 7:5-14)

Before the captivity, the prophet, Jeremiah had warned
the Jews that if they did not repent of their sins, they would
be in captivity for seventy years. Because of their
disobedience, the many fasts of the captivity proved to be
futile. God did not alter the severity of his punishment and
Israel served every single year of its sentence.
(Jeremiah 25:11, Dan 9:2)

Throughout history, the children of God have been told
that fasting without obedience is meaningless. Here is what
Isaiah and an early church father had to say about fasting:

"Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands
of wickedness ... to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that
thou bring the poor [brethren] that are cast out to thy
house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him?"
Isaiah 58:6-7

"I will teach thee what is a complete fast and acceptable
to the Lord ... God desireth not such a vain fast [the
accustomed fasts] but fast thou [unto God] such a fast as
this; DO NO WICKEDNESS IN THY LIFE, AND
SERVE THE LORD WITH A PURE HEART;
OBSERVE HIS COMMANDMENTS..."
Shepherd of Hermas (See notes below)

The Biblical and historical understanding of the fast that
God requires has to do with righteousness; not food. God
has promised that he will bless those who keep His
commandments - and curse those who do not. (whether we
fast or not) Deut 28

Donna Kupp

Historical notes
J B Lightfoot, The Apostolic Fathers, p 203,
Baker Book House 1956

According to Lightfoot, "The work [Shepherd of Hermas]
is found in general circulation in the Eastern and
Western churches, soon after the middle of the second
century ... It is quoted by Irenaeus in Gaul, by
Tertullian in Africa, by Clement and Origen in
Alexandria. All these fathers - even Tertullian, before
he became a Montanist - either cite it as scripture, or
assign to it a special authority as in some sense inspired
and quasi-canonical."

Jamieson Fausset & Brown's Commentary on Zech 7:5
points out the difference between the futile fasts of the
captivity and the true "fast unto the Lord" of Romans 14:6,
we read:

"did ye ...fast unto me? --No: it was to gratify yourselves in
hypocritical will-worship. If it had been "unto me" ye
would have "separated yourselves: not only from food, but
from your sins (Isaiah 58:3-7). They falsely made the fast
an end, intrinsically meritorious in itself, not a means
towards God's glory in their sanctification ... (Romans
14:6)"
Jamieson Fausset & Brown Bible Commentary
Vol. 11,p.855 1888
dk

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman,
and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD,
AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST." Rev 12:17 (KJV)

The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
http://www.harborside.com/~hkupp

Ben Mitts
2003-10-01 21:02:33 EST
bear163 wrote:
> Devotional Guide
>
> For the week of September 28, 2003
>
>
>
> LIVING FOR FOREVER
>
>
>
> Why the Sabbath is a principle
>
>
>
>
>
> To Read: Jeremiah 4-6
>
>
>
>
>
> To Know:
>
>
>
> "One man esteems one day as better than another, while another man esteems
> all days alike. Let every one be fully convinced in his own mind." (Rm.14:
> 5)
>
>
>
> Workaholic is our word for Sabbath breaker. Workaholics will not rest. The
> Sabbath day was the divine sign that the Old Covenant people belonged to the
> Lord. "And the Lord said to Moses, 'Say to the people of Israel, 'You shall
> keep my sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your
> generations, that you may know that I, the Lord, sanctify you.'" (Ex.31:
> 12,13) The lesson that the Sabbath was meant to teach God's people was that
> they are flesh and he is God. The Sabbath as a sign of belonging to God
> ended with the dawn of the New Covenant era. Some refused to believe that
> they no longer needed to esteem the Sabbath Day above all the others. Others
> estimated all days the same. The Apostle Paul had no law to pronounce on the
> matter. In Christ the Sabbath was a principle, not a parameter.
>
>
>
> The sabbatical principle is that of rest. Jesus said, "The Sabbath was made
> for man, and not man for the Sabbath." It is vital that we live our lives in
> Christ and not in our own strength. By design we were made to need
> restoration every day. That is why, by his grace, God gives to his beloved
> sleep. None of us can carry the weight of the world on our shoulders. We who
> have our faith in the name of Jesus Christ are to manifest his presence,
> power and purpose by all that we say and do. Rest restores us. We rest by
> ceasing from our labors. Also we are restored when we make time to worship
> the Lord week by week.
>
>
>
>
>
> To Do:
>
>
>
> To keep the Sabbath is to understand that we are called to rest in the Lord.
> We are to live our life in dependence of God's good will for us.
>
>
>
>
>
> To Ask:
>
>
>
> Father, Let me not be tempted to live as if the outcome of my life and work
> depended on me. Give me rest.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 10013$-10013
>

You should have referenced Gal 4:9-11 also
Of course this wont mean a thing to Donna
who is trailing your footsteps

Ben Mitts


Melchizedek
2003-10-02 01:02:05 EST

"Donna Kupp" <dkupp@harborside.com> wrote in message
news:46b06428.0310011028.9d8c249@posting.google.com...
> "bear163" <bear163@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:<kZseb.10900$NX3.5993@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
>
Maybe if you are either a Jehovah Witness or a 7th Day Advantist.




Donna Kupp
2003-10-03 14:20:13 EST
"Melchizedek" <Melchizedek@as-if.com> wrote in message news:<gjOeb.58$OQ1.18@news.randori.com>...
> "Donna Kupp" <dkupp@harborside.com> wrote in message
> news:46b06428.0310011028.9d8c249@posting.google.com...
> > "bear163" <bear163@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:<kZseb.10900$NX3.5993@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>...

Melchizedek wrote:

> Maybe if you are either a Jehovah Witness or a 7th Day Advantist.

Donna sez:

It is time for you to raise your white flag, since you have been
reduced to using speculations and gossip, and those are only two
unfilled blanks. Besides, I know that if you had any live "ammo",
you would be firing it at me.

Donna Kupp

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman,
and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD,
AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST." Rev 12:17 (KJV)

The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
http://www.harborside.com/~hkupp

Libertarius
2003-10-03 15:41:51 EST


Donna Kupp wrote:

> "Melchizedek" <Melchizedek@as-if.com> wrote in message news:<gjOeb.58$OQ1.18@news.randori.com>...
> > "Donna Kupp" <dkupp@harborside.com> wrote in message
> > news:46b06428.0310011028.9d8c249@posting.google.com...
> > > "bear163" <bear163@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:<kZseb.10900$NX3.5993@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
>
> Melchizedek wrote:
>
> > Maybe if you are either a Jehovah Witness or a 7th Day Advantist.
>
> Donna sez:
>
> It is time for you to raise your white flag, since you have been
> reduced to using speculations and gossip, and those are only two
> unfilled blanks. Besides, I know that if you had any live "ammo",
> you would be firing it at me.
>
> Donna Kupp
>
> "And the dragon was wroth with the woman,
> and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
> WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD,
> AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST." Rev 12:17 (KJV)
>
> The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
> http://www.harborside.com/~hkupp

===>What a pile of nonsense.
All the hundreds of sects and denominations are condemned,
except YOURS, of course! -- L.



Libertarius
2003-10-03 16:45:52 EST


Donna Kupp wrote:

>
>
> "And the dragon was wroth with the woman,
> and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
> WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD,
> AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST." Rev 12:17 (KJV)

===>Interesting passage.
Its original was written by the EBIONITES,
Jews who had gathered around James, the brother
of Jesus, waiting for his return to destroy the Roman
Empire.

Some Pauline Christian editor made obvious changes,
but the original is clearly there. -- L.


Uragoner
2003-10-04 15:19:16 EST
READ THE BIBLE FOR YOURSELF - http://www.theophilos.sk/download.htm#free
> > http://www.thegrace.com/download.htm or Check Google or another search
engine

Here's why.........Read on:

Psalms 14:1 \ufffd<<To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.>> The fool hath
said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done
abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
2 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if
there were any that did understand, and seek God.
3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is
none that doeth good, no, not one.

Christianity and Crusaders? Biblically there is a difference
and like Islam, it was forewarned about in the Bible.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He
is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Mathew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your
Father, which is in heaven.
10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall
humble himself shall be exalted.

The Pope

Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall
wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws:
and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the
dividing of time.( The Pope thinks to change the Ten Commandments, The
Sabbath - the sign of the True Creator, and Idolatry) Note despite Christ's
warning the Priests of this faith call themselves father, and the pope - the
most holy father.....hence blasphemy of the True Father in Heaven.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall
not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be
revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that
is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing
himself that he is God.(Thinking he's changed God's sabbath to Sunday,
killing and conquering in the name of Jesus (and neglecting the cross) for
filthy lucre and power. He calls himself the most holy father....total
blasphemy against Jesus' own words)


Revelation 13:1 \ufffdAnd I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise
up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten
crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as
the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon
gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly
wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. (Wounded by
Napoleon in 1798, healed by Mussolini)
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they
worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to
make war with him?
Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things
and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two
months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name,
and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome
them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not
written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the
world.Revelation 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth
with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the
faith of the saints. (written to avoid any wavering of faith due to the
Roman church's claims versus her actions)

Revelation 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed
fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the
wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a
woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having
seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with
gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of
abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE
MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
(Babylon the source of may nations, tongue peoples, and faiths despite
Ephesians 4:5)
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the
blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great
admiration.
7 \ufffdAnd the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell
thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which
hath the seven heads and ten horns.
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the
bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth
shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the
foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not,
and yet is.
Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are
seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that
keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

The seven heads are the mountains of Rome - the city of 7 hills . Check an
encyclopedia.
The church - a virgin. So then, a corrupt church - a whore.
This power sought to destroy the Bible, keeping it in Latin so that very few
could read it.
This power sought to resolve various worldly religions with itself - selling
its virtue in the process:
Prayer beads - the rosary
The merger with paganism - the worship of the Heavens including the sun -
Changing God's Sabbath to Sunday (Daniel 7:25) the venerable day of the sun,
and the day Christ rose from the Dead. Made law by Roman emperor Consantine
in 538 AD
The merging of pagan holidays within the so called church. (Mostly around
the equinoxes and other seasonal changes)
Idolatry - images of who?

ISLAM THE TRUTH - A prophet greater than Jesus Christ? Revelation 16:13

Daneil 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire
of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
(Mohammed)
38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his
fathers(Abraham and the true Prophets) knew not shall he honour with gold,
and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things (Mosques).
39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god (Allah),
whom he
shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule
over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and
the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with
chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into
the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
41 He shall enter also into the glorious land (Israel), and many countries
shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and
Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of
Egypt shall not escape.
43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and
over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians
shall be at his steps.
44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him:
therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make
away many.
45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the
glorious holy mountain(al aqsa in Jerusalem,oh yes and the dome of the rock
..it did say tabernacles didn't it); yet he shall come to his end,
and none shall help him.
Daniel 12:1 \ufffdAnd at that time shall Michael stand up(Judgement on the earth
is past. Read the Book of Hebrews in the New Testament), the great prince
which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of
trouble, (Started by the destruction of the oil fields,of which some sheiks
& clerics are already planning, but will not be able to accomplish til the
Lord allows it.)
such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at
that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found
written in the book

The burning of the oil fields including Iraq (Babylon).....oh yes America
will be involved in this!

Revelation 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying,
Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is
thy judgment come.
11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man
buyeth their merchandise any more:
12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls,
and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and
all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood,
and of brass, and iron, and marble

adios Iraq,Saudi Arabia, oh yeah and I guess the world's economy.....oh

THE TEN COMMANDMENTS
Written by God's finger in stone... an unchanging God!

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any
thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is
in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD
thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the
children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my
commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD
will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Exodus 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt
not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor
thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in
them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath
day, and hallowed it. (Saturday , actually from Friday sunset to Saturday
sunset)
12 \ufffdHonour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the
land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy
neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor
his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
18 \ufffdAnd all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the
noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it,
they removed, and stood afar off.
19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let
not God speak with us, lest we die.


Matthew 5:17 \ufffdThink not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets:
I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. ( Christ speaking here)
John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to
destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it
more abundant

Another thread:

America:

Revelation 13:11 \ufffdAnd I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth;
and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
After the nuclear destruction of the Middle East oil fields
US shall mandate its own religion and make and image to the Beast
(Catholicism & the Pope) . There shall no longer be a separation of church
and state ( the two horns ) but Sunday laws (in contradiction to God's
Sabbath) and Christian (?) mindset .
IN OTHER WORDS -- forced religious observance, hence speaking as a dragon
(no longer
a lamb)
Sound familiar.........forced religion (The beast)

And so you have the puzzle of Rev. 16:13 Catholicism and its forced
observance, Protestantism and its upcoming force observance (Sunday Laws,
despite the Sabbath being the 7th day, and Islam and its forced observance
of religion). All shall have power to control your ability to work - to buy
and sell as it were. And all ignore God's fourth Commandment, as do the
Atheists (needless
to say, but they'll do what the various governments tell them)

Compare Deuteronomy 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine
hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes. (Ten Commandments)
w/ :
Revelation 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come
down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those
miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them
that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which
had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast (church state
albeit dominantly Protestant), that the image of the beast should both
speak, and cause that as many as would not
worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond,
to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the
name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Some of the Jews wear these things on there foreheads (phylacteries?), but
the gist of the passages are what you do and how you think ,The Ten
Commandments, or man's variation thereof....

Anyway we're getting close to a real economic bummer....Cities will
burn,(already seen this in LA & New York, etc. from little incidents like
power outages, or police aggression, but this will be world wide and much
worse), famine throughout the entire world, fallout from the oil fields...-
desperate men will do
desperate things

Again:
Peace in the Middle East.... (or anywhere?) When our world leaders talk of
this, WE SHOULD BE FRIGHTENED

1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden
destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they
shall not escape.

Kind of makes me wonder what Bible our world leaders are reading
anyway.......
Anything less than this is a lie

The True State of Death

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know
not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them
is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished;
neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done
under the sun.

In a nutshell

John 11:8 His disciples say unto him, Master, the Jews of late sought to
stone thee; and goest thou thither again?
9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in
the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.
10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light
in him.
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend
Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of
taking of rest in sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may
believe; nevertheless let us go unto him.
16 Then said Thomas, which is called Didymus, unto his fellowdisciples, Let
us also go, that we may die with him.
17 \ufffdThen when Jesus came, he found that he had lain in the grave four days
already.
18 Now Bethany was nigh unto Jerusalem, about fifteen furlongs off:
19 And many of the Jews came to Martha and Mary, to comfort them concerning
their brother.
20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met
him: but Mary sat still in the house.
21 Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother
had not died.
22 But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will
give it thee.
23 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the
resurrection at the last day. (Important there are many who seem to be
confused here)
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that
believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou
this?
27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the
Son of God, which should come into the world.
28 And when she had so said, she went her way, and called Mary her sister
secretly, saying, The Master is come, and calleth for thee.
29 As soon as she heard that, she arose quickly, and came unto him.
30 Now Jesus was not yet come into the town, but was in that place where
Martha met him.
31 The Jews then which were with her in the house, and comforted her, when
they saw Mary, that she rose up hastily and went out, followed her, saying,
She goeth unto the grave to weep there.
32 Then when Mary was come where Jesus was, and saw him, she fell down at
his feet, saying unto him, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not
died.
33 \ufffdWhen Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which
came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled,
34 And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and
see.
35 Jesus wept. ( for the great unbelief of man)
36 Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved him!
37 And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the
blind, have caused that even this man should not have died?
38 Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a
cave, and a stone lay upon it.
39 Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was
dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead
four days.
John 11:40 Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou
wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid.
And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast
heard me.
42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which
stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come
forth.
44 And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes:
and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose
him, and let him go.
45 \ufffdThen many of the Jews which came to Mary, and had seen the things which
Jesus did, believed on him.
46 But some of them went their ways to the Pharisees, and told them what
things Jesus had done.
47 Then gathered the chief priests and the Pharisees a council, and said,
What do we? for this man doeth many miracles.
48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans
shall come and take away both our place and nation. (Lucifer's interjection,
no doubt)
49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year,
said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for
the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he
prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in
one the children of God that were scattered abroad. Jews and Gentiles


1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that
we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent
them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the
voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ
shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them
in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the
Lord. (Meet Him in the Air - ANYTHING ELSE IS A LIE ! )
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

BUT just before.... Satan appears for one last lie:

Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an
angel of light.

2 Thessalonians 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them
that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they
might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should
believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had
pleasure in unrighteousness.


Why so many denominations and religions ?

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but
holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

2 Peter 2:1 \ufffdBut there were false prophets also among the people, even as
there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable
heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves
swift destruction.












Graham Thomas
2003-10-04 21:27:02 EST
On 1 Oct 2003 11:28:45 -0700, dkupp@harborside.com (Donna Kupp) wrote:

Excellent post Donna! There are no scriptures, either old or new,
that dismiss a Christian's obligation to obey the fourth commandment.
As "Christians" we are to follow Christ. Jesus (as well as His
disciples) faithfully obeyed the Sabbath and _so should we_. Sadly,
many prefer to follow flawed church tradition instead of walking in
Christ's footsteps.

Graham Thomas


>"bear163" <bear163@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<kZseb.10900$NX3.5993@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
>
>(This post is a cross-post because I am answering bear's post
>to muliple groups.) In his post, he used Romans 14:5-6 as if
>it applied to the Sabbath. Here, I will prove that Romans 14:5-6
>has nothing to do with the Sabbath.
>
>Bear quotes Romans 14:5-6:
>
>> "One man esteems one day as better than another, while another man esteems
>> all days alike. Let every one be fully convinced in his own mind." (Rm.14:
>> 5)
>
>THE CHURCHMEN vs THE SABBATH
> and
> FUTILE AND USEFUL FASTS
>
> Many churchmen use Romans 14:5-6 as proof that New
>Testament believers no longer have an obligation to keep
>the Sabbath day holy. So let us examine those two verses,
>just as a Judge would consider evidence in his courtroom,
>and then decide whether or not they testify against Sabbath
>keeping. Paul wrote:
>
> "One man esteemeth one day above another: another
> esteemeth every day alike. Let very man be fully
> persuaded in his own mind.
>
> He that regardeth [observeth] the day regardeth it unto
> the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord
> he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the
> Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not,
> to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks."
> Romans 14:5-6
>
> The Judge would ask: "Where is the Sabbath mentioned in
>those verses?". The Sabbath is not mentioned there, nor in
>the entire book of Romans! No court in the land would
>allow verses that do not mention the Sabbath to be used as
>evidence in an argument against the Sabbath - so why
>should we?
>
> You see, Paul could not have been talking about keeping
>the Sabbath day holy because obedience to God's law is not
>optional. It is ludicrous to suggest that any of the Ten
>Commandments can be disobeyed "unto the Lord". Think
>of the absurdity of saying "He that stealeth, to the Lord he
>stealeth; and he that stealeth not, to the Lord he stealeth
>not."
>
> What then was Paul talking about? He was talking about
>fast days. The whole 14th chapter of Romans is about food
>and how people's beliefs about eating should not be
>interfered with. The fast days could be observed according
>to each believer's conscience. A man could eat -or not eat,
>keep the day - or not keep it. It is as simple as this: Each
>man could observe FAST DAYS, or not observe them,
>according to his own convictions.
>
> He that does not eat, regards the day.
>
> He that eats, does not regard the day.
>
> The "days" that Paul was referring to were the traditional
>fast days mentioned in Zechariah 7:5-6. The Gentile
>Christians in Rome did not keep them because they had no
>cultural interest in the anniversary fasts that were observed
>during the Jew's captivity in Babylon. *1
>
> Even the Jews themselves had different convictions about
>the observance of those days - because those fasts were
>never commanded by God.
>
> After the captivity (when the temple was being rebuilt) the
>men of Bethel also wondered if they should observe these
>fasts unto the Lord. For example, they asked Zechariah:
>"Shall I weep in the fifth month and abstain, as I have done
>these many years?" (Zech 7:2-3.)
>
>When you read Zechariah's answer, notice the striking
>similarity of his words with those of Paul to the church at
>Rome ...
>
>COMPARE Zechariah 7:5-6
> "...When ye FASTED and mourned in the
> fifth and seventh month, even those seventy years,
> DID YE AT ALL FAST UNTO ME, even to me
> [The Lord]?
>
> And when ye did EAT, and when ye did drink, did ye
> not EAT FOR YOURSELVES, and drink for
> yourselves?"
>
>WITH Romans 14:6-7 "He that regardeth the [fast] day
> regardeth it UNTO THE LORD; and he that
> regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not
> regard it.
>
> He that EATETH, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth
> God thanks; and he that EATETH NOT, to the Lord
> he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
>
> For none of us LIVETH TO HIMSELF, and no man
> dieth to himself."
>
> If you were the Judge in the case of the CHURCHMEN
>VERSUS THE SABBATH, would you be willing to say
>that Paul had cancelled one of the commandments of God
>based on the evidence you find in the 14th chapter of
>Romans?
>
> In our opinion, the evidence from Romans and Zechariah
>demands a verdict for Sabbath observance. The church
>must obey the Fourth Commandment and that is the only
>decision that will uphold the Law of God. *2
>
> CASE CLOSED!
>
>* Footnotes:
>
>1 These are the four traditional fasts that were mentioned
> in the book of Zechariah:
>
> 1. (The fast of the fourth month) In remembrance of the
> breaking of the wall of Jerusalem.
> 2. (The fast of the fifth month) In remembrance of the
> burning of the temple.
> 3. (The fast of the seventh month) In remembrance of the
> killing of Gedaliah, which completed the dispersion.
> 4. (The fast of the tenth month) In remembrance of the
> beginning of the siege of Jerusalem.
>
> See - Jer 52:6, Jer 52:12-13, 2 Kings 25:25, 2 Kings 25:1
>
> It is of interest to note that those dates commemorate the
> judgments of God upon a people who refused to keep the
> Sabbath Day holy. (See Jer 17:19-27)
>
>2 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt
> thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is
> the sabbath of the LORD thy God..." Ex 20:8-10
>
>
>Part II FUTILE AND USEFUL FASTS
>
> There are two kinds of fasts; the fasts unto ourselves
>(which are futile) and the fasts unto the Lord (which are
>useful).
>
> Futile fasts come from a selfish motive. Some are simply
>hunger strikes that are contrived to influence God so He
>will give us what we want --or soften his punishment for our
>disobedience.
>
> Zachariah rebuked the men of Bethel for the way the Jews
>had observed their fasts during the captivity. They mourned
>the loss of their temple, its riches, and the desolations of
>Jerusalem but neglected the condition of their hearts.
>
> Without a broken and contrite heart, fasting becomes a
>cloak for sin. So the men, who were rebuilding Jerusalem,
>were told to listen to the former prophets who demanded
>obedience to God's law. (Zech 7:5-14)
>
> Before the captivity, the prophet, Jeremiah had warned
>the Jews that if they did not repent of their sins, they would
>be in captivity for seventy years. Because of their
>disobedience, the many fasts of the captivity proved to be
>futile. God did not alter the severity of his punishment and
>Israel served every single year of its sentence.
> (Jeremiah 25:11, Dan 9:2)
>
> Throughout history, the children of God have been told
>that fasting without obedience is meaningless. Here is what
>Isaiah and an early church father had to say about fasting:
>
> "Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands
> of wickedness ... to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that
> thou bring the poor [brethren] that are cast out to thy
> house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him?"
> Isaiah 58:6-7
>
> "I will teach thee what is a complete fast and acceptable
> to the Lord ... God desireth not such a vain fast [the
> accustomed fasts] but fast thou [unto God] such a fast as
> this; DO NO WICKEDNESS IN THY LIFE, AND
> SERVE THE LORD WITH A PURE HEART;
> OBSERVE HIS COMMANDMENTS..."
> Shepherd of Hermas (See notes below)
>
>The Biblical and historical understanding of the fast that
>God requires has to do with righteousness; not food. God
>has promised that he will bless those who keep His
>commandments - and curse those who do not. (whether we
>fast or not) Deut 28
>
>Donna Kupp
>
>Historical notes
> J B Lightfoot, The Apostolic Fathers, p 203,
> Baker Book House 1956
>
>According to Lightfoot, "The work [Shepherd of Hermas]
> is found in general circulation in the Eastern and
> Western churches, soon after the middle of the second
> century ... It is quoted by Irenaeus in Gaul, by
> Tertullian in Africa, by Clement and Origen in
> Alexandria. All these fathers - even Tertullian, before
> he became a Montanist - either cite it as scripture, or
> assign to it a special authority as in some sense inspired
> and quasi-canonical."
>
>Jamieson Fausset & Brown's Commentary on Zech 7:5
>points out the difference between the futile fasts of the
>captivity and the true "fast unto the Lord" of Romans 14:6,
>we read:
>
>"did ye ...fast unto me? --No: it was to gratify yourselves in
>hypocritical will-worship. If it had been "unto me" ye
>would have "separated yourselves: not only from food, but
>from your sins (Isaiah 58:3-7). They falsely made the fast
>an end, intrinsically meritorious in itself, not a means
>towards God's glory in their sanctification ... (Romans
>14:6)"
> Jamieson Fausset & Brown Bible Commentary
> Vol. 11,p.855 1888
>dk
>
>"And the dragon was wroth with the woman,
> and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
> WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD,
> AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST." Rev 12:17 (KJV)
>
>The Seven Deadly Deceptions Of Counterfeit Christianity
> http://www.harborside.com/~hkupp


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Uragoner
2003-10-05 11:41:51 EST

Hebrews 4:1 \ufffdLet us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of
entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word
preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard
it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have
sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were
finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God
did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to
whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long
a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your
hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken
of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.



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