Bible Discussion: Biblical Admonitions

Biblical Admonitions
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Icarus
2004-10-31 04:55:03 EST
Christians go on frequently and at great length about the biblical
admonitions against homosexuality, and I was just wondering: How many
admonitions are there in the Bible against child sexual abuse?



Jude
2004-10-31 06:09:58 EST

"Icarus" <icarus_uk@email.com> wrote in message
news:2ujt7lF2b29a9U1@uni-berlin.de...
> Christians go on frequently and at great length about the biblical
> admonitions against homosexuality, and I was just wondering: How many
> admonitions are there in the Bible against child sexual abuse?

The most important aspect of the "Christian" fanatical obsession against
homosexuals belies their COMPLETE non-relatedness to homosexuality. You
notice they don't rant and rave against adulterers and there's a plenty of
those in the world. However, they personally CAN relate to adultery (they
KNOW they could actually be one or HAVE been one). The very FACT that they
CAN'T relate to homosexuality speaks to the special "nature" of
homosexuality.

According to biblical authors, Jesus said that there was only ONE special
sin, apart from ALL other sins, and that sin was blaspheming the Holy
Spirit. Somehow, though, "Christians" today don't really know what
blaspheming the Holy Spirit means. They argue about it's EXACT meaning even
though it's told in an EXACT situation in the gospels. They think they KNOW
what homosexuality is though and some of them seem to actually relish
condemning them. They also love to use the word "abomination".

It almost like you can "see" the smugness on their faces when they mouth
that word. It seems to be like nectar on the lips. They also seem
completely unaware how "abomination" is used throughout the Old Testament.
It describes anything from eating the wrong type of food to wearing the
wrong type of clothing to actually remarrying your divorced wife. Yes, dear
folks, read it and weep. It's an abomination to God, according to Old
Testament authors, to REMARRY your divorced wife. Romance is OUT the
window, forget about rekindled love there.

Let me get back to my primary statement. It is the VERY fact that
heterosexuals CANNOT relate to the "sin" of homosexuality that "allows" them
to just go at it with fist bared, so to speak. If homosexuality was a sin
common to the human race like all sin is, then ALL of us would feel it's
"pull" or "attraction" at some time. It would be something that we'd all
struggle with at some time or another NOT to do, just like lying, stealing,
etc.

It is NOT the same with homosexuals. Homosexuals are NOT just heterosexual
people PERFORMING sexual acts. A heterosexual can perform a sexual act but
he REMAINS heterosexual. Yes, there are some men, who because of the lack
of access to women, WILL engage in the SEXUAL act ONLY. I'm sure they close
their eyes and engage in their own sexual fantasy when doing so, however.
Once, these men have access to women, they no longer will engage in the
SEXUAL act. It was NEVER a orientation. They NEVER fell in love, they
NEVER wanted a life-long commitment, they NEVER felt like they had met their
soul mate, they NEVER shared emotional intimacy, etc. etc. These feelings
are the PRIMARY property of homosexuals, who NEVER had a choice. A
homosexual CAN engage in heterosexuals ACTS. It will NOT, by virtue of
having intercourse with the opposite sex, change them.

I personally have known homosexual men and women who have LIVED as a
heterosexual, some for up to 20 years or so. YET, they lived tormented
lives to differing degrees. The fundamentalists prides themselves and
points to such people as the "success" stories of the X-gays! I know one
woman who for about 17 years of marriage, pleaded with God to change her.
No change. All she could do was do the BEST imitation possible. Then one
day, without CONSCIENCE thought, she drove herself into a telephone pole at
95 mph! She lived to tell her story. About 7 years later, she reunited,
AFTER 28 years of separation, with her 1st love, another woman. They are
together to this day.

Most homosexuals will tell you that when, usually at adolescence, they
discovered their romantic and sexual feelings were toward members of the
same gender they were shocked and dismayed. They dismay was the discovery
that they were something they were WELL aware of that was socially
ostracized, made endless jokes about, and were destined to be social
outcasts. I'd like everybody to just TRY and imagine what that feels like.
I wouldn't want that.

We heterosexuals KNOW NOTHING of their situation and most of us don't even
TRY to understand their situation. For some it just seems like they found
the PERFECT scapegoat to condemn.



Pastor Dave
2004-10-31 09:14:32 EST
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 05:09:58 -0600, while wondering if
all people love cupcakes, "Jude"
<*n@bayou.louisiana> yodeled:

>
>"Icarus" <icarus_uk@email.com> wrote in message
>news:2ujt7lF2b29a9U1@uni-berlin.de...
>> Christians go on frequently and at great length about the biblical
>> admonitions against homosexuality, and I was just wondering: How many
>> admonitions are there in the Bible against child sexual abuse?
>
>The most important aspect of the "Christian" fanatical obsession against
>homosexuals belies their COMPLETE non-relatedness to homosexuality.

Scripture speaks directly against homosexual acts.


>You notice they don't rant and rave against adulterers and there's a plenty of
>those in the world.

When's the last time you saw a message in these news
groups, from someone claiming to be a Christian, who
states that the Bible doesn't say anything about
adultery and that it's okay with God? When's the last
time you saw an, "Adultery Pride Parade"?


>However, they personally CAN relate to adultery (they
>KNOW they could actually be one or HAVE been one). The very FACT that they
>CAN'T relate to homosexuality speaks to the special "nature" of
>homosexuality.

It isn't "special", it's a sin, like other sins. The
difference is that homosexuals try to force their sin
down our throats and demand legal protection for their
sex lives.


>According to biblical authors, Jesus said that there was only ONE special
>sin, apart from ALL other sins, and that sin was blaspheming the Holy
>Spirit.

Jesus didn't say anything about a "special sin". He
said there is one unforgivable sin.


>Somehow, though, "Christians" today don't really know what
>blaspheming the Holy Spirit means. They argue about it's EXACT meaning even
>though it's told in an EXACT situation in the gospels.

Rejecting Christ until death is not forgivable.


>They think they KNOW
>what homosexuality is though and some of them seem to actually relish
>condemning them. They also love to use the word "abomination".
>
>It almost like you can "see" the smugness on their faces when they mouth
>that word. It seems to be like nectar on the lips. They also seem
>completely unaware how "abomination" is used throughout the Old Testament.
>It describes anything from eating the wrong type of food to wearing the
>wrong type of clothing to actually remarrying your divorced wife. Yes, dear
>folks, read it and weep. It's an abomination to God, according to Old
>Testament authors, to REMARRY your divorced wife. Romance is OUT the
>window, forget about rekindled love there.

It doesn't say no one can remarry their former wife and
you fail to understand, that by admitting that it is
classified with other sins, you admit that it is a sin.


>Let me get back to my primary statement. It is the VERY fact that
>heterosexuals CANNOT relate to the "sin" of homosexuality that "allows" them
>to just go at it with fist bared, so to speak. If homosexuality was a sin
>common to the human race like all sin is, then ALL of us would feel it's
>"pull" or "attraction" at some time. It would be something that we'd all
>struggle with at some time or another NOT to do, just like lying, stealing,
>etc.

Pedophilia is a sin that is not common to all people,
but it is still a sin. No one said homosexual acts are
a sin common to all men. The Bible says that all men
have sinned. It does not say that they have all
committed all of the same sins. You're trying to argue
now that homosexual acts are not sin, because not
everyone does it. You are arguing against a straw man
of your own construction.


>It is NOT the same with homosexuals. Homosexuals are NOT just heterosexual
>people PERFORMING sexual acts. A heterosexual can perform a sexual act but
>he REMAINS heterosexual. Yes, there are some men, who because of the lack
>of access to women, WILL engage in the SEXUAL act ONLY. I'm sure they close
>their eyes and engage in their own sexual fantasy when doing so, however.
>Once, these men have access to women, they no longer will engage in the
>SEXUAL act. It was NEVER a orientation. They NEVER fell in love, they
>NEVER wanted a life-long commitment, they NEVER felt like they had met their
>soul mate, they NEVER shared emotional intimacy, etc. etc. These feelings
>are the PRIMARY property of homosexuals, who NEVER had a choice. A
>homosexual CAN engage in heterosexuals ACTS. It will NOT, by virtue of
>having intercourse with the opposite sex, change them.

The fact is, that homosexuals do not typically stay in
life long committed homosexual relationships, but even
if they did, the fact that they keep committing the sin
day after day, does not mean it is longer a sin, just
because it is repeated.


>I personally have known homosexual men and women who have LIVED as a
>heterosexual, some for up to 20 years or so. YET, they lived tormented
>lives to differing degrees. The fundamentalists prides themselves and
>points to such people as the "success" stories of the X-gays! I know one
>woman who for about 17 years of marriage, pleaded with God to change her.
>No change. All she could do was do the BEST imitation possible. Then one
>day, without CONSCIENCE thought, she drove herself into a telephone pole at
>95 mph! She lived to tell her story. About 7 years later, she reunited,
>AFTER 28 years of separation, with her 1st love, another woman. They are
>together to this day.
>
>Most homosexuals will tell you that when, usually at adolescence, they
>discovered their romantic and sexual feelings were toward members of the
>same gender they were shocked and dismayed. They dismay was the discovery
>that they were something they were WELL aware of that was socially
>ostracized, made endless jokes about, and were destined to be social
>outcasts. I'd like everybody to just TRY and imagine what that feels like.
>I wouldn't want that.

Pedophiles can make the same claims. According to your
logic, it is not a sin and should be encouraged. After
all, why "torment them", right?


>We heterosexuals KNOW NOTHING of their situation and most of us don't even
>TRY to understand their situation. For some it just seems like they found
>the PERFECT scapegoat to condemn.

Homosexual acts are sin, period and the Bible tells us
this clearly.


--

Pastor Dave Raymond

"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99

/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\

"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17


Pastor Dave
2004-10-31 09:16:28 EST
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 09:55:03 -0000, while wondering if
all people love cupcakes, "Icarus"
<icarus_uk@email.com> yodeled:

>Christians go on frequently and at great length about the biblical
>admonitions against homosexuality, and I was just wondering: How many
>admonitions are there in the Bible against child sexual abuse?

Abuse against people is wrong. Jesus told us not to
offend the little ones.


--

Pastor Dave Raymond

"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99

/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\

"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17


Jude
2004-10-31 11:07:12 EST

"Pastor Dave" <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:k2s9o0pa23fg1f0gljil3ofddfo3giam1p@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 05:09:58 -0600, while wondering if
> all people love cupcakes, "Jude"
> <cajun@bayou.louisiana> yodeled:
>
> >
> >"Icarus" <icarus_uk@email.com> wrote in message
> >news:2ujt7lF2b29a9U1@uni-berlin.de...
> >> Christians go on frequently and at great length about the biblical
> >> admonitions against homosexuality, and I was just wondering: How many
> >> admonitions are there in the Bible against child sexual abuse?
> >
> >The most important aspect of the "Christian" fanatical obsession against
> >homosexuals belies their COMPLETE non-relatedness to homosexuality.
>
> Scripture speaks directly against homosexual acts.
>
>
> >You notice they don't rant and rave against adulterers and there's a
plenty of
> >those in the world.
>
> When's the last time you saw a message in these news
> groups, from someone claiming to be a Christian, who
> states that the Bible doesn't say anything about
> adultery and that it's okay with God? When's the last
> time you saw an, "Adultery Pride Parade"?

I SAID "rant and rave," Dave. It's ALL about the DEGREES. If YOU would
start to REALLY read what people type, you wouldn't make the same mistakes
over and over.

> >However, they personally CAN relate to adultery (they
> >KNOW they could actually be one or HAVE been one). The very FACT that
they
> >CAN'T relate to homosexuality speaks to the special "nature" of
> >homosexuality.
>
> It isn't "special", it's a sin, like other sins. The
> difference is that homosexuals try to force their sin
> down our throats and demand legal protection for their
> sex lives.

So do adulterers. They tell you "HANDS OFF." Nobody says much of anything
and they SURELY DON'T rant and rave about them!!! They're a dime a dozen,
there's so many of them.... adulterers.

> >According to biblical authors, Jesus said that there was only ONE special
> >sin, apart from ALL other sins, and that sin was blaspheming the Holy
> >Spirit.
>
> Jesus didn't say anything about a "special sin". He
> said there is one unforgivable sin.

It doesn't have to say SPECIAL, Dave. DUH... The number ONE means
special. Geez. If there's ONLY one, then it's special. Again, if you're
think a little before you knee-jerk react you'd understand that ONE means
special and I wasn't out to actually quote what a biblical author said Jesus
said. The biblical author probably didn't it down verbatim.

> >Somehow, though, "Christians" today don't really know what
> >blaspheming the Holy Spirit means. They argue about it's EXACT meaning
even
> >though it's told in an EXACT situation in the gospels.
>
> Rejecting Christ until death is not forgivable.

Well... thanks for showing me yet ANOTHER descrepancy in the biblical
author's writings.

> >They think they KNOW
> >what homosexuality is though and some of them seem to actually relish
> >condemning them. They also love to use the word "abomination".
> >
> >It almost like you can "see" the smugness on their faces when they mouth
> >that word. It seems to be like nectar on the lips. They also seem
> >completely unaware how "abomination" is used throughout the Old
Testament.
> >It describes anything from eating the wrong type of food to wearing the
> >wrong type of clothing to actually remarrying your divorced wife. Yes,
dear
> >folks, read it and weep. It's an abomination to God, according to Old
> >Testament authors, to REMARRY your divorced wife. Romance is OUT the
> >window, forget about rekindled love there.
>
> It doesn't say no one can remarry their former wife and
> you fail to understand, that by admitting that it is
> classified with other sins, you admit that it is a sin.

Dave, here we go again. Did you notice I put those little "s around the
word sin? Afterwards, I no longer had to put those little "s around the
word 'cause it was ALREADY established the meaning I had when writing it.

> >Let me get back to my primary statement. It is the VERY fact that
> >heterosexuals CANNOT relate to the "sin" of homosexuality that "allows"
them
> >to just go at it with fist bared, so to speak. If homosexuality was a
sin
> >common to the human race like all sin is, then ALL of us would feel it's
> >"pull" or "attraction" at some time. It would be something that we'd all
> >struggle with at some time or another NOT to do, just like lying,
stealing,
> >etc.
>
> Pedophilia is a sin that is not common to all people,
> but it is still a sin. No one said homosexual acts are
> a sin common to all men. The Bible says that all men
> have sinned. It does not say that they have all
> committed all of the same sins. You're trying to argue
> now that homosexual acts are not sin, because not
> everyone does it. You are arguing against a straw man
> of your own construction.

Alrighty, Dave. Show me ONE place in the bible that says ANYTHING about
pedophila. Also, remember little girls were taken as wives. Is THAT okay
is "marriage" was involved? Sure, according to the biblical writers, it was
absolutely okay to take a adolescent, pre-teen and teen as a wife. Oh, and
please spare me the speech regarding how women matured more in the past.

> >It is NOT the same with homosexuals. Homosexuals are NOT just
heterosexual
> >people PERFORMING sexual acts. A heterosexual can perform a sexual act
but
> >he REMAINS heterosexual. Yes, there are some men, who because of the
lack
> >of access to women, WILL engage in the SEXUAL act ONLY. I'm sure they
close
> >their eyes and engage in their own sexual fantasy when doing so, however.
> >Once, these men have access to women, they no longer will engage in the
> >SEXUAL act. It was NEVER a orientation. They NEVER fell in love, they
> >NEVER wanted a life-long commitment, they NEVER felt like they had met
their
> >soul mate, they NEVER shared emotional intimacy, etc. etc. These
feelings
> >are the PRIMARY property of homosexuals, who NEVER had a choice. A
> >homosexual CAN engage in heterosexuals ACTS. It will NOT, by virtue of
> >having intercourse with the opposite sex, change them.
>
> The fact is, that homosexuals do not typically stay in
> life long committed homosexual relationships, but even
> if they did, the fact that they keep committing the sin
> day after day, does not mean it is longer a sin, just
> because it is repeated.

Gay women tend to stay in long-committed relationships more than the men.
However, the same SOCIAL pressure is not put on them as it is put on us,
whether or not we're believers or not. They're cast out, both from society
AND religion. They're made to feel that they CAN'T even begin to approach
God. Nobody expects anything from them except to keep their mouths shut.

> >I personally have known homosexual men and women who have LIVED as a
> >heterosexual, some for up to 20 years or so. YET, they lived tormented
> >lives to differing degrees. The fundamentalists prides themselves and
> >points to such people as the "success" stories of the X-gays! I know one
> >woman who for about 17 years of marriage, pleaded with God to change her.
> >No change. All she could do was do the BEST imitation possible. Then
one
> >day, without CONSCIENCE thought, she drove herself into a telephone pole
at
> >95 mph! She lived to tell her story. About 7 years later, she reunited,
> >AFTER 28 years of separation, with her 1st love, another woman. They are
> >together to this day.
> >
> >Most homosexuals will tell you that when, usually at adolescence, they
> >discovered their romantic and sexual feelings were toward members of the
> >same gender they were shocked and dismayed. They dismay was the
discovery
> >that they were something they were WELL aware of that was socially
> >ostracized, made endless jokes about, and were destined to be social
> >outcasts. I'd like everybody to just TRY and imagine what that feels
like.
> >I wouldn't want that.
>
> Pedophiles can make the same claims. According to your
> logic, it is not a sin and should be encouraged. After
> all, why "torment them", right?

So can heterosexuals make the same claim.... lol Putting words in my mouth.
DUH, Dave, if you were REALLY reading me, you're realize that I say
homosexuality CAN'T be encouraged. It's NOT a choice. Remotely, the only
choice involved is to stay celibate or to do your best pretend hetero
lifestyle. Thought I'd stick that little lifestyle in there 'cause we ALL
know that WE choice our heterosexual lifestyle, now dont' we? lol

> >We heterosexuals KNOW NOTHING of their situation and most of us don't
even
> >TRY to understand their situation. For some it just seems like they
found
> >the PERFECT scapegoat to condemn.
>
> Homosexual acts are sin, period and the Bible tells us
> this clearly.

The bible talks to you, Dave? Is IT, the bible, God? Is IT God, Dave? Is
through those writings the way you THINK you know God, Dave? So you're
saying that the PRIMARY way in which you perceive God is through reading
about Jehovah and Jesus in the bible?



Jude
2004-10-31 11:12:06 EST

"Pastor Dave" <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:aps9o09ee26no2hhraqkjrpeib671qp4o3@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 09:55:03 -0000, while wondering if
> all people love cupcakes, "Icarus"
> <icarus_uk@email.com> yodeled:
>
> >Christians go on frequently and at great length about the biblical
> >admonitions against homosexuality, and I was just wondering: How many
> >admonitions are there in the Bible against child sexual abuse?
>
> Abuse against people is wrong. Jesus told us not to
> offend the little ones.

Oh, here we go. Why a hyprocrite with double standards you are! I said
that there was only one special sin and you get All uptight about using the
word special and that the bible didn't say that or Jesus didn't say that.
Jesus didn't say what you just typed. You were paraphrasing just like I
was. THEN you try to say that special doesn't apply to blaspheming the Holy
Spirit. If there is ONE thing set apart, guess what, Dave, one can call
that thing SPECIAL.

OFFEND the little ones? I think you are applying a BROAD definition of that
biblical account of what Jesus said. Men married VERY young women in the
bible. If THAT'S not legalized pedophilia, I don't know what is.... It was
NEVER spoken against. Women and little girls were the property of men.
Remember, Dave? What was that commandment? Don't cover your neighbors
GOODS, his ass, his this, his that, his WIFE?



The Apostle
2004-10-31 13:29:21 EST

"Icarus" <icarus_uk@email.com> wrote in message
news:2ujt7lF2b29a9U1@uni-berlin.de...
> Christians go on frequently and at great length about the biblical
> admonitions against homosexuality, and I was just wondering: How many
> admonitions are there in the Bible against child sexual abuse?
>


I'm sure there is an actual commandment, that reads, Thou Shalt not commit
adultery. But any survey will tell you that over 50% of all people (male or
female) commit adultery!!

Where is the outcry from the pulpits of the land??

Read Exodus 20: 8 - REMEMBER the Sabbath, to keep it holy.

Wow, First you are to REMEMBER the Sabbath, why?? To keep it holy.

Why is there no outcry from the pulpits of the land, about breaking the
Sabbath. Surely there are admonitions against that in the OT.

What was it that Jesus said. For thou savourest not the things of God, but
those that be of men!!

Remember the Sabbath is of God.

Pick a Pagan Day of the Sun, is of Man.



Stone
2004-10-31 13:32:56 EST
The inspired Word of God, says this:
> 1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit
> the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor
> idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves
> with mankind,
> 1 Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor
> revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
> (abusers of themselves with mankind means practicing homosexual)

[The Greek word translated effeminate is malakos. Translated into the
middle English definition of effeminate it means: to make a woman out
of. This word effeminate is referring to a man that allows his body to
be used like a woman by a another man. It is referring to the male
homosexual that takes the female role in the homosexual relationship.]

[The Greek word translated into "abusers of themselves with mankind"
in the King James Bible, is the word arsenokoites. It means sodomite
or a male homosexual that commits acts of sodomy. This would be the
male homosexual that has the male role in the homosexual
relationship.]

So you see that practicing homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of
God. Practicing homosexuals will not go to heaven; they will go to
hell. [There is no purgatory; the afterlife is only heaven or hell.]

Sodomite and sodomy get their names from sodom, the evil city that God
sent angels to destroy along with Gamorrah.
Genesis 13:13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before
the LORD exceedingly.
Genesis 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and
Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
Genesis 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done
altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if
not, I will know.

Genesis 19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the
men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the
people from every quarter:
Genesis 19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are
the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that
we may know them.

["know them" means that the men of sodom wanted to commit sodomy with
them.]

Genesis 19:6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the
door after him,
Genesis 19:7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.

The men of somom were sodomite homosexuals; God sent angels to destroy
the city of sodom because the men were so wicked.

Sodomy and practicing homosexuality is forbidden in the Bible:
Ex. 22:19, Lev. 18:22, Lev. 20:13, Dt. 23:17, 1 Cor. 6:9-10, 1 Tim.
1:10, Judges 19: 22-23 and judges 20: 13, Rom. 1:18-32.

1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous
man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for
sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and
murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1 Timothy 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves
with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if
there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections:
for even their women did change the natural use into that which is
against nature:
Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of
the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men
working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that
recompence of their error which was meet.
Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit
such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have
pleasure in them that do them.
[Hell is called the second death, in the bible.]

Men and women need to repent of homosexuality, and be trying to not commit
homosexual acts, just like they need to repent of any other sin, if they
want to go to heaven. If they refuse to repent, they will go to hell.







>
> You see from the writing of the apostle Paul, under the inspiration of
> the Holy Spirit of God, that effeminate or practicing homosexuals will
> not go to heaven. Effeminate or practicing homosexuals will go to hell
> if they do not repent of this sin. [Homosexual acts are sin in God's
> sight.]
>
> For your info, you cannot be a practicing gay and a Christian. To be a
> Christian you must believe in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour and you
> must repent. Repent means you must be trying to not sin. Since
> homosexual acts are sin, to be a Christian, you must repent of
> homosexuality and be trying to not be a homosexual.
>
> Repent of your homosexuality like you need to repent of lying,
> stealing and any other type of sin, if you want to go to heaven. If
> you don't go to heaven then you will go to hell to suffer eternal
? torment. Choose going to heaven and be happy.

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is
abomination.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman,
both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to
death; their blood shall be upon them.


Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and
murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars,
shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone:
which is the second death.
You see where it says the abominable will go into the lake of fire?
Homosexuality is called an abomination in the Old Testament: Leviticus 18:22
and 20:13
So, practicing homosexuals are abominable.













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Pastor Dave
2004-10-31 13:36:11 EST
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:07:12 -0600, while wondering if
all people love cupcakes, "Jude"
<*n@bayou.louisiana> yodeled:

>
>"Pastor Dave" <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:k2s9o0pa23fg1f0gljil3ofddfo3giam1p@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 05:09:58 -0600, while wondering if
>> all people love cupcakes, "Jude"
>> <cajun@bayou.louisiana> yodeled:
>>
>> >
>> >"Icarus" <icarus_uk@email.com> wrote in message
>> >news:2ujt7lF2b29a9U1@uni-berlin.de...
>> >> Christians go on frequently and at great length about the biblical
>> >> admonitions against homosexuality, and I was just wondering: How many
>> >> admonitions are there in the Bible against child sexual abuse?
>> >
>> >The most important aspect of the "Christian" fanatical obsession against
>> >homosexuals belies their COMPLETE non-relatedness to homosexuality.
>>
>> Scripture speaks directly against homosexual acts.
>>
>>
>> >You notice they don't rant and rave against adulterers and there's a
>> >plenty of those in the world.
>>
>> When's the last time you saw a message in these news
>> groups, from someone claiming to be a Christian, who
>> states that the Bible doesn't say anything about
>> adultery and that it's okay with God? When's the last
>> time you saw an, "Adultery Pride Parade"?
>
>I SAID "rant and rave," Dave. It's ALL about the DEGREES. If YOU would
>start to REALLY read what people type, you wouldn't make the same mistakes
>over and over.

You didn't answer the question. You're the one ranting
and raving.


>> >However, they personally CAN relate to adultery (they
>> >KNOW they could actually be one or HAVE been one). The very FACT that
>> >they CAN'T relate to homosexuality speaks to the special "nature" of
>> >homosexuality.
>>
>> It isn't "special", it's a sin, like other sins. The
>> difference is that homosexuals try to force their sin
>> down our throats and demand legal protection for their
>> sex lives.
>
>So do adulterers. They tell you "HANDS OFF." Nobody says much of anything
>and they SURELY DON'T rant and rave about them!!! They're a dime a dozen,
>there's so many of them.... adulterers.

Prove your claim that adulterers demand legal
protection for their sex lives.


>> >According to biblical authors, Jesus said that there was only ONE special
>> >sin, apart from ALL other sins, and that sin was blaspheming the Holy
>> >Spirit.
>>
>> Jesus didn't say anything about a "special sin". He
>> said there is one unforgivable sin.
>
>It doesn't have to say SPECIAL, Dave. DUH...

It does when you claim the Bible says that.


>The number ONE means
>special. Geez. If there's ONLY one, then it's special. Again, if you're
>think a little before you knee-jerk react you'd understand that ONE means
>special and I wasn't out to actually quote what a biblical author said Jesus
>said. The biblical author probably didn't it down verbatim.

Rant.

"Probably" is not proof.


>> >Somehow, though, "Christians" today don't really know what
>> >blaspheming the Holy Spirit means. They argue about it's EXACT meaning
>> >even though it's told in an EXACT situation in the gospels.
>>
>> Rejecting Christ until death is not forgivable.
>
>Well... thanks for showing me yet ANOTHER descrepancy in the biblical
>author's writings.

That's a claim, not proof. There is no discrepancy.


>> >They think they KNOW
>> >what homosexuality is though and some of them seem to actually relish
>> >condemning them. They also love to use the word "abomination".
>> >
>> >It almost like you can "see" the smugness on their faces when they mouth
>> >that word. It seems to be like nectar on the lips. They also seem
>> >completely unaware how "abomination" is used throughout the Old
>> >Testament.
>> >It describes anything from eating the wrong type of food to wearing the
>> >wrong type of clothing to actually remarrying your divorced wife. Yes,
>> >dear
>> >folks, read it and weep. It's an abomination to God, according to Old
>> >Testament authors, to REMARRY your divorced wife. Romance is OUT the
>> >window, forget about rekindled love there.
>>
>> It doesn't say no one can remarry their former wife and
>> you fail to understand, that by admitting that it is
>> classified with other sins, you admit that it is a sin.
>
>Dave, here we go again. Did you notice I put those little "s around the
>word sin? Afterwards, I no longer had to put those little "s around the
>word 'cause it was ALREADY established the meaning I had when writing it.

In other words, it doesn't say what you claim and so
now, you wish to try to weasel out of your claim.


>> >Let me get back to my primary statement. It is the VERY fact that
>> >heterosexuals CANNOT relate to the "sin" of homosexuality that "allows"
>> >them to just go at it with fist bared, so to speak. If homosexuality was a
>> >sin common to the human race like all sin is, then ALL of us would feel it's
>> >"pull" or "attraction" at some time. It would be something that we'd all
>> >struggle with at some time or another NOT to do, just like lying,
>> >stealing, etc.
>>
>> Pedophilia is a sin that is not common to all people,
>> but it is still a sin. No one said homosexual acts are
>> a sin common to all men. The Bible says that all men
>> have sinned. It does not say that they have all
>> committed all of the same sins. You're trying to argue
>> now that homosexual acts are not sin, because not
>> everyone does it. You are arguing against a straw man
>> of your own construction.
>
>Alrighty, Dave. Show me ONE place in the bible that says ANYTHING about
>pedophila. Also, remember little girls were taken as wives. Is THAT okay
>is "marriage" was involved? Sure, according to the biblical writers, it was
>absolutely okay to take a adolescent, pre-teen and teen as a wife. Oh, and
>please spare me the speech regarding how women matured more in the past.

So then, you now claim that pedophilia is not a sin?
Well, now we know where you stand.


>> >It is NOT the same with homosexuals. Homosexuals are NOT just
>> >heterosexual
>> >people PERFORMING sexual acts. A heterosexual can perform a sexual act
>> >but
>> >he REMAINS heterosexual. Yes, there are some men, who because of the
>> >lack
>> >of access to women, WILL engage in the SEXUAL act ONLY. I'm sure they
>> >close
>> >their eyes and engage in their own sexual fantasy when doing so, however.
>> >Once, these men have access to women, they no longer will engage in the
>> >SEXUAL act. It was NEVER a orientation. They NEVER fell in love, they
>> >NEVER wanted a life-long commitment, they NEVER felt like they had met
>their
>> >soul mate, they NEVER shared emotional intimacy, etc. etc. These
>feelings
>> >are the PRIMARY property of homosexuals, who NEVER had a choice. A
>> >homosexual CAN engage in heterosexuals ACTS. It will NOT, by virtue of
>> >having intercourse with the opposite sex, change them.
>>
>> The fact is, that homosexuals do not typically stay in
>> life long committed homosexual relationships, but even
>> if they did, the fact that they keep committing the sin
>> day after day, does not mean it is longer a sin, just
>> because it is repeated.
>
>Gay women tend to stay in long-committed relationships more than the men.
>However, the same SOCIAL pressure is not put on them as it is put on us,
>whether or not we're believers or not. They're cast out, both from society
>AND religion. They're made to feel that they CAN'T even begin to approach
>God. Nobody expects anything from them except to keep their mouths shut.

You are wrong, but regardless, you haven't answered to
the point. The fact that they keep committing the sin,
does not make it no longer sin, just because it is
repeated every day.


>> >I personally have known homosexual men and women who have LIVED as a
>> >heterosexual, some for up to 20 years or so. YET, they lived tormented
>> >lives to differing degrees. The fundamentalists prides themselves and
>> >points to such people as the "success" stories of the X-gays! I know one
>> >woman who for about 17 years of marriage, pleaded with God to change her.
>> >No change. All she could do was do the BEST imitation possible. Then
>one
>> >day, without CONSCIENCE thought, she drove herself into a telephone pole
>at
>> >95 mph! She lived to tell her story. About 7 years later, she reunited,
>> >AFTER 28 years of separation, with her 1st love, another woman. They are
>> >together to this day.
>> >
>> >Most homosexuals will tell you that when, usually at adolescence, they
>> >discovered their romantic and sexual feelings were toward members of the
>> >same gender they were shocked and dismayed. They dismay was the
>discovery
>> >that they were something they were WELL aware of that was socially
>> >ostracized, made endless jokes about, and were destined to be social
>> >outcasts. I'd like everybody to just TRY and imagine what that feels
>like.
>> >I wouldn't want that.
>>
>> Pedophiles can make the same claims. According to your
>> logic, it is not a sin and should be encouraged. After
>> all, why "torment them", right?
>
>So can heterosexuals make the same claim.... lol Putting words in my mouth.
>DUH, Dave, if you were REALLY reading me, you're realize that I say
>homosexuality CAN'T be encouraged. It's NOT a choice. Remotely, the only
>choice involved is to stay celibate or to do your best pretend hetero
>lifestyle. Thought I'd stick that little lifestyle in there 'cause we ALL
>know that WE choice our heterosexual lifestyle, now dont' we? lol

You did not answer to the point.


>> >We heterosexuals KNOW NOTHING of their situation and most of us don't
>even
>> >TRY to understand their situation. For some it just seems like they
>found
>> >the PERFECT scapegoat to condemn.
>>
>> Homosexual acts are sin, period and the Bible tells us
>> this clearly.
>
>The bible talks to you, Dave? Is IT, the bible, God? Is IT God, Dave? Is
>through those writings the way you THINK you know God, Dave? So you're
>saying that the PRIMARY way in which you perceive God is through reading
>about Jehovah and Jesus in the bible?

Rant.


--

Pastor Dave Raymond

"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99

/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\

"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17


Pastor Dave
2004-10-31 13:36:41 EST
On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:12:06 -0600, while wondering if
all people love cupcakes, "Jude"
<*n@bayou.louisiana> yodeled:

>
>"Pastor Dave" <pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:aps9o09ee26no2hhraqkjrpeib671qp4o3@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 09:55:03 -0000, while wondering if
>> all people love cupcakes, "Icarus"
>> <icarus_uk@email.com> yodeled:
>>
>> >Christians go on frequently and at great length about the biblical
>> >admonitions against homosexuality, and I was just wondering: How many
>> >admonitions are there in the Bible against child sexual abuse?
>>
>> Abuse against people is wrong. Jesus told us not to
>> offend the little ones.
>
>Oh, here we go. Why a hyprocrite with double standards you are! I said
>that there was only one special sin and you get All uptight about using the
>word special and that the bible didn't say that or Jesus didn't say that.
>Jesus didn't say what you just typed. You were paraphrasing just like I
>was. THEN you try to say that special doesn't apply to blaspheming the Holy
>Spirit. If there is ONE thing set apart, guess what, Dave, one can call
>that thing SPECIAL.
>
>OFFEND the little ones? I think you are applying a BROAD definition of that
>biblical account of what Jesus said. Men married VERY young women in the
>bible. If THAT'S not legalized pedophilia, I don't know what is.... It was
>NEVER spoken against. Women and little girls were the property of men.
>Remember, Dave? What was that commandment? Don't cover your neighbors
>GOODS, his ass, his this, his that, his WIFE?

You are an idiot.


--

Pastor Dave Raymond

"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditation." - Psalm 119:99

/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\

"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17

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