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Kerry Served 2 Tours . . . Bush Zip
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Transition Zone
2004-09-19 10:39:14 EST
Kerry served two tours in Vietnam. Live with it.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Salem Statesman Journal - Sep 14 2:47 AM

"Lately we have been deluged with Sen. John Kerry pontificating at
length about how President Bush "refused to serve when he had a
chance" by joining the Air National Guard, while he, Kerry, served
"two tours in Vietnam" with great distinction, thus implying that
anyone who joins the National Guard is shirking their duty to the
nation. "

DianaC
2004-09-19 11:02:17 EST

"Transition Zone" <mogulah@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3f224cda.0409190639.3cc13d41@posting.google.com...
> Kerry served two tours in Vietnam. Live with it.

No.

Kerry served one tour on a ship...which never went anywhere near Vietnam; it
was pretty much a pleasure cruise through the South Pacific. No WONDER he
signed up for a second one. Anybody would.

He served a truncated tour of four months in VietNam, during which he shot
himself twice, a naked teenager in the back once and burned down a village
belonging to civilians and noncombatants in a 'no-fire' zone. He earned a
couple of medals, and he did earn them and should be honored for that.
BUT....

He used his three purple hearts, earned for injuries that weren't serious
enough for him to miss lunch, to get out of Vietnam early so that he could
get a cushy job as an Admiral's Aid, and then got out of the service early
so he could run for office.

Then he threw his medals away and spent the last thirty five years telling
everybody how ashamed of his service he was, about the war crimes he
commited while there, and voting against funding the military.

My father, a WWII vet, has nothing but contempt for the man. HE refused
purple hearts for injuries that far exceeded anything that Kerry got. My
father had broken ankles, shrapnel in his back (that still shows up sixty
years later) broken back, ribs...he did things like pull dead gunners away
from the gun and, while his back was in ribbons from shrapnel, shoot
kamikazi pilots from the sky as they were aiming at his fully loaded
ammunitions ship.

Oh, yeah, he has a medal for that, and HE kept it. But he does NOT have a
purple heart, because he would have felt silly accepting one for an injury
that didn't, all by itself, get him sent home.

And CLINTON promised to fulfill ROTC duties in one school in order to get a
deferment, and then ducked out of keeping it.

And Bush served in the National Guard. Wow, how dishonorable of him.

And all of it happened thirty five years ago and means nothing anyway.
Certainly that's what you guys shouted when the conservatives criticised
CLINTON'S manner of avoiding the war.





*@sbcglobal.net
2004-09-19 13:15:13 EST

> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Salem Statesman Journal - Sep 14 2:47 AM
>
> "Lately we have been deluged with Sen. John Kerry pontificating at
> length about how President Bush "refused to serve when he had a
> chance" by joining the Air National Guard, while he, Kerry, served
> "two tours in Vietnam" with great distinction, thus implying that
> anyone who joins the National Guard is shirking their duty to the
> nation. "


Bush dodged the draft to avoid Vietnam.
-Tock



W. D. Allen Sr.
2004-09-19 14:00:46 EST
While in the National Guard Bush VOLUNTEERED for Vietnam! Because he was
flying the F-102, a cold war interceptor of Russian bombers that was not
needed in Vietnam, he was not called up!

Bush never brags on his military service because he did nothing to be
embarrassed about, unlike Kerry who deserted his shipmates!

Can it be you can't get it right because you just don't get it?

WDA

end

<*k@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:B8j3d.22607$eD4.15160@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com...
>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Salem Statesman Journal - Sep 14 2:47 AM
>>
>> "Lately we have been deluged with Sen. John Kerry pontificating at
>> length about how President Bush "refused to serve when he had a
>> chance" by joining the Air National Guard, while he, Kerry, served
>> "two tours in Vietnam" with great distinction, thus implying that
>> anyone who joins the National Guard is shirking their duty to the
>> nation. "
>
>
> Bush dodged the draft to avoid Vietnam.
> -Tock
>
>



Resasoned Insanity
2004-09-19 14:02:30 EST

<*k@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:B8j3d.22607$eD4.15160@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com...
>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Salem Statesman Journal - Sep 14 2:47 AM
>>
>> "Lately we have been deluged with Sen. John Kerry pontificating at
>> length about how President Bush "refused to serve when he had a
>> chance" by joining the Air National Guard, while he, Kerry, served
>> "two tours in Vietnam" with great distinction, thus implying that
>> anyone who joins the National Guard is shirking their duty to the
>> nation. "
>
>
> Bush dodged the draft to avoid Vietnam.
> -Tock



Honestly, who cares who did what during vietnam? Kerry who waas a pussy who
wounded himself so he could get some pretty deceorations. Bush was a
chickenshit who hid in the reserves to escape vietnam. I guess everyone in
the reserves today goes in that same boat according to democrats. What
bothers me is that Kerry is a socialist who wants to fix everyone else's
problems with my money. That don't fly with me. All this shit with who went
to what war has me wondering what the democrats will say about Hillary
Clinton when she runs for president in 08'. I would think that being in the
army won't matter a bit then. Can you say hypocrite? Oh yeah I forgot,
Hillary will never take us to any war. She is an appeaser. She approves of
paying off enemies to not kill us instead of killing them. She is a prime
example of why a democrate should never be allowed to take office. Dem's are
commies that are too stupid to admit it.



Qwerty
2004-09-19 16:47:53 EST

"DianaC" <dianaiad@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:Zbh3d.3479$Ii2.2457@trnddc09...
>
> "Transition Zone" <mogulah@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3f224cda.0409190639.3cc13d41@posting.google.com...
> > Kerry served two tours in Vietnam. Live with it.
>
> No.
>
> Kerry served one tour on a ship...which never went anywhere near Vietnam;
it
> was pretty much a pleasure cruise through the South Pacific. No WONDER he
> signed up for a second one. Anybody would.

Total BS! The USS Gridley & crew was awarded the Vietnam Service Medal for
service in Vietnam.

According to the most recent OPNAVNOTE 1650 (Unit Awards and Citations
Master List), USS Gridley (DLG 21) is credited with a Vietnam Service
Medal (VS) for the period 16-Mar-1968 to 29-Mar-1968 and *03-Apr-1968 to
07-May-1968*.

http://neds.nebt.daps.mil/Directives/o1650/encl3shipg.pdf
http://neds.nebt.daps.mil/Directives/o1650/abvencl1.pdf

John Kerry served on the USS Gridley from June 8, 1967 until July 20, 1968.

http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/service_timeline.html

Vietnam Service Medal:

Criteria: a. Awarded to all members of the Armed Forces of the United States
serving in Vietnam and contiguous waters or airspace thereover, after 3 July
1965 through 28 March 1973. Members of the Armed Forces of the United States
in Thailand, Laos, or Cambodia, or the airspace thereover, during the same
period and serving in direct support of operations in Vietnam are also
eligible for this award. To be eligible for award of the medal, individual
must- -
(1) Be attached to or regularly serve for one or more days with an
organization participating in or directly supporting military operations; or

(2) Be attached to or regularly serve for one or more days aboard a
naval vessel directly supporting military operations; or

(3) Actually participate as a crewmember in one or more aerial
flights into airspace above Vietnam and contiguous waters directly
supporting military operations; or

(4) Serve on temporary duty for 30 consecutive days or 60
nonconsecutive days in Vietnam or contiguous areas, except that the time
limit may be waived for personnel participating in actual combat operations.

b. Individuals qualified for the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal for
service in Vietnam between 1 July 1958 and 3 July 1965 shall remain
qualified for the medal. Upon request, the individual may be awarded the
Vietnam Service Medal in lieu of the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal. In
such instances, the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal will be deleted from
the list of authorized medals in the individual's personnel records. No
person shall be entitled to both awards for Vietnam Service.



http://www.gruntsmilitary.com/vsm.shtml

http://www.pjsinnam.com/Medals/VS_Medals_Criteria.htm



> My father, a WWII vet, has nothing but contempt for the man. HE refused
> purple hearts for injuries that far exceeded anything that Kerry got. My
> father had broken ankles, shrapnel in his back (that still shows up sixty
> years later) broken back, ribs...he did things like pull dead gunners away
> from the gun and, while his back was in ribbons from shrapnel, shoot
> kamikazi pilots from the sky as they were aiming at his fully loaded
> ammunitions ship.

Will Bob Dole be giving back his first purple heart medal?

> And CLINTON promised to fulfill ROTC duties in one school in order to get
a
> deferment, and then ducked out of keeping it.

Clinton's not running!

> And Bush served in the National Guard. Wow, how dishonorable of him.

Yes, his ANG service was dishonorable!




DianaC
2004-09-19 17:31:52 EST

"qwerty" <nospam@all.noway.com> wrote in message
news:Zfm3d.17436$QJ3.6975@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "DianaC" <dianaiad@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:Zbh3d.3479$Ii2.2457@trnddc09...
>>
>> "Transition Zone" <mogulah@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:3f224cda.0409190639.3cc13d41@posting.google.com...
>> > Kerry served two tours in Vietnam. Live with it.
>>
>> No.
>>
>> Kerry served one tour on a ship...which never went anywhere near Vietnam;
> it
>> was pretty much a pleasure cruise through the South Pacific. No WONDER he
>> signed up for a second one. Anybody would.
>
> Total BS! The USS Gridley & crew was awarded the Vietnam Service Medal
> for
> service in Vietnam.
>
> According to the most recent OPNAVNOTE 1650 (Unit Awards and Citations
> Master List), USS Gridley (DLG 21) is credited with a Vietnam Service
> Medal (VS) for the period 16-Mar-1968 to 29-Mar-1968 and *03-Apr-1968 to
> 07-May-1968*.
>
> http://neds.nebt.daps.mil/Directives/o1650/encl3shipg.pdf
> http://neds.nebt.daps.mil/Directives/o1650/abvencl1.pdf
>
> John Kerry served on the USS Gridley from June 8, 1967 until July 20,
> 1968.
>
> http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/service_timeline.html
>
> Vietnam Service Medal:
>
> Criteria: a. Awarded to all members of the Armed Forces of the United
> States
> serving in Vietnam and contiguous waters or airspace thereover, after 3
> July
> 1965 through 28 March 1973. Members of the Armed Forces of the United
> States
> in Thailand, Laos, or Cambodia, or the airspace thereover, during the same
> period and serving in direct support of operations in Vietnam are also
> eligible for this award. To be eligible for award of the medal, individual
> must- -
> (1) Be attached to or regularly serve for one or more days with an
> organization participating in or directly supporting military operations;
> or
>
> (2) Be attached to or regularly serve for one or more days aboard a
> naval vessel directly supporting military operations; or
>
> (3) Actually participate as a crewmember in one or more aerial
> flights into airspace above Vietnam and contiguous waters directly
> supporting military operations; or
>
> (4) Serve on temporary duty for 30 consecutive days or 60
> nonconsecutive days in Vietnam or contiguous areas, except that the time
> limit may be waived for personnel participating in actual combat
> operations.
>
> b. Individuals qualified for the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal for
> service in Vietnam between 1 July 1958 and 3 July 1965 shall remain
> qualified for the medal. Upon request, the individual may be awarded the
> Vietnam Service Medal in lieu of the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal. In
> such instances, the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal will be deleted from
> the list of authorized medals in the individual's personnel records. No
> person shall be entitled to both awards for Vietnam Service.


Sure they supported the miltary operations. But even you can't put the
Gridley within range of any North Vietnamese gun. The Gridley was never
fired on, never came close to anywhere it COULD have been fired on, and
spent most of its time in the South Pacific, in combat theaters like French
Polynesia...Kerry hit the beach during that time, all right, but the only
damage he was in danger of was a severe sunburn. If he thought that service
in Vietnam was going to be like that, he would have been nuts not to
volunteer for a second tour.
<snip >
>
>> My father, a WWII vet, has nothing but contempt for the man. HE refused
>> purple hearts for injuries that far exceeded anything that Kerry got. My
>> father had broken ankles, shrapnel in his back (that still shows up sixty
>> years later) broken back, ribs...he did things like pull dead gunners
>> away
>> from the gun and, while his back was in ribbons from shrapnel, shoot
>> kamikazi pilots from the sky as they were aiming at his fully loaded
>> ammunitions ship.
>
> Will Bob Dole be giving back his first purple heart medal?

That's completely up to Bob Dole.
But...did Bob Dole use his purple hearts to get out of combat?
(hint....the answer is 'no')
His SECOND one was for a wound for which even my father would have accepted
a purple heart.

But I'm not asking Kerry to give his purple hearts back. I don't have to. He
threw them away, remember? (shrug) After all, he got what he wanted from
them....out.

>> And CLINTON promised to fulfill ROTC duties in one school in order to
>> get
> a
>> deferment, and then ducked out of keeping it.
>
> Clinton's not running!

Not at the moment, no. But then neither is Bush. He DID run at the time,
however. His manipulation of the system in order to get out of any service,
including the National Guard, was about as twisty a bit of manuevering as
I've seen.
>
>> And Bush served in the National Guard. Wow, how dishonorable of him.
>
> Yes, his ANG service was dishonorable!

Actually, it wasn't. He got an honorable discharge, he did what he was
supposed to do, and he has nothing to be ashamed of.



Qwerty
2004-09-19 17:44:08 EST

"DianaC" <dianaiad@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:cVm3d.1904$Bg5.992@trnddc07...
>
> "qwerty" <nospam@all.noway.com> wrote in message
> news:Zfm3d.17436$QJ3.6975@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > "DianaC" <dianaiad@verizon.net> wrote in message
> > news:Zbh3d.3479$Ii2.2457@trnddc09...
> >>
> >> "Transition Zone" <mogulah@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:3f224cda.0409190639.3cc13d41@posting.google.com...
> >> > Kerry served two tours in Vietnam. Live with it.
> >>
> >> No.
> >>
> >> Kerry served one tour on a ship...which never went anywhere near
Vietnam;
> > it
> >> was pretty much a pleasure cruise through the South Pacific. No WONDER
he
> >> signed up for a second one. Anybody would.
> >
> > Total BS! The USS Gridley & crew was awarded the Vietnam Service Medal
> > for
> > service in Vietnam.
> >
> > According to the most recent OPNAVNOTE 1650 (Unit Awards and Citations
> > Master List), USS Gridley (DLG 21) is credited with a Vietnam Service
> > Medal (VS) for the period 16-Mar-1968 to 29-Mar-1968 and *03-Apr-1968 to
> > 07-May-1968*.
> >
> > http://neds.nebt.daps.mil/Directives/o1650/encl3shipg.pdf
> > http://neds.nebt.daps.mil/Directives/o1650/abvencl1.pdf
> >
> > John Kerry served on the USS Gridley from June 8, 1967 until July 20,
> > 1968.
> >
> > http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/service_timeline.html
> >
> > Vietnam Service Medal:
> >
> > Criteria: a. Awarded to all members of the Armed Forces of the United
> > States
> > serving in Vietnam and contiguous waters or airspace thereover, after 3
> > July
> > 1965 through 28 March 1973. Members of the Armed Forces of the United
> > States
> > in Thailand, Laos, or Cambodia, or the airspace thereover, during the
same
> > period and serving in direct support of operations in Vietnam are also
> > eligible for this award. To be eligible for award of the medal,
individual
> > must- -
> > (1) Be attached to or regularly serve for one or more days with
an
> > organization participating in or directly supporting military
operations;
> > or
> >
> > (2) Be attached to or regularly serve for one or more days aboard
a
> > naval vessel directly supporting military operations; or
> >
> > (3) Actually participate as a crewmember in one or more aerial
> > flights into airspace above Vietnam and contiguous waters directly
> > supporting military operations; or
> >
> > (4) Serve on temporary duty for 30 consecutive days or 60
> > nonconsecutive days in Vietnam or contiguous areas, except that the time
> > limit may be waived for personnel participating in actual combat
> > operations.
> >
> > b. Individuals qualified for the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal for
> > service in Vietnam between 1 July 1958 and 3 July 1965 shall remain
> > qualified for the medal. Upon request, the individual may be awarded the
> > Vietnam Service Medal in lieu of the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal.
In
> > such instances, the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal will be deleted
from
> > the list of authorized medals in the individual's personnel records. No
> > person shall be entitled to both awards for Vietnam Service.
>
>
> Sure they supported the miltary operations. But even you can't put the
> Gridley within range of any North Vietnamese gun.

Vietnamese gun?

> The Gridley was never
> fired on, never came close to anywhere it COULD have been fired on, and
> spent most of its time in the South Pacific, in combat theaters like
French
> Polynesia...Kerry hit the beach during that time, all right, but the only
> damage he was in danger of was a severe sunburn.

The USS Gridley was in Vietnamese waters, including the Gulf of Tonkin and
this DOES count as doing duty in Vietnam.

> If he thought that service
> in Vietnam was going to be like that, he would have been nuts not to
> volunteer for a second tour.
> <snip >
> >
> >> My father, a WWII vet, has nothing but contempt for the man. HE refused
> >> purple hearts for injuries that far exceeded anything that Kerry got.
My
> >> father had broken ankles, shrapnel in his back (that still shows up
sixty
> >> years later) broken back, ribs...he did things like pull dead gunners
> >> away
> >> from the gun and, while his back was in ribbons from shrapnel, shoot
> >> kamikazi pilots from the sky as they were aiming at his fully loaded
> >> ammunitions ship.
> >
> > Will Bob Dole be giving back his first purple heart medal?
>
> That's completely up to Bob Dole.

What? It's OK for Bob Dole to get a purple heart for a self-inflicted
scratch?

> But...did Bob Dole use his purple hearts to get out of combat?
> (hint....the answer is 'no')

So?

> His SECOND one was for a wound for which even my father would have
accepted
> a purple heart.

So?

> But I'm not asking Kerry to give his purple hearts back. I don't have to.
He
> threw them away, remember?

No, he did not throw them away.

> (shrug) After all, he got what he wanted from
> them....out.
>
> >> And CLINTON promised to fulfill ROTC duties in one school in order to
> >> get
> > a
> >> deferment, and then ducked out of keeping it.
> >
> > Clinton's not running!
>
> Not at the moment, no.

Clinton is barred from running for President ever again.

> But then neither is Bush. He DID run at the time,
> however. His manipulation of the system in order to get out of any
service,
> including the National Guard, was about as twisty a bit of manuevering as
> I've seen.
> >
> >> And Bush served in the National Guard. Wow, how dishonorable of him.
> >
> > Yes, his ANG service was dishonorable!
>
> Actually, it wasn't.

Actually, It was. Bush didn't fulfill is commitment, pulled strings to get
into that cushy NG and likewise to pull off an honorable discharge.

> He got an honorable discharge, he did what he was
> supposed to do, and he has nothing to be ashamed of.

LOL. While Kerry was in combat in Vietnam here's Bush demonstrating his
leadership & fitness for command back in Texas!

>From a U.S. News & World report article on Nov 1, 1999 titled:

"The Lost Years of Al and Dubya "

"One of Bush's favorite off-duty activities was pursuing the "aviation
groupies" hanging around the bars and clubs near the base. He'd cruise by in
his blue Triumph convertible, showing off a succession of impressive dates.
And he loved carousing with the guys. The ritual was simple, according to a
participant: Bellying up to the bar at a local tavern, someone in Bush's
crowd would yell, "Dead bug," whereupon everyone would drop to the floor,
flop onto his back, and twitch his arms and legs. The last one to hit the
ground would have to buy the next round. "You'd drink until you couldn't see
straight," and no one would care as long as you showed up for work the next
orning, says a Bush cohort from those days. "The culture was different
then.""

http://web.archive.org/web/19991128034804/http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/991101/lost.htm




Transition Zone
2004-09-19 17:52:00 EST
"DianaC" <dianaiad@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<Zbh3d.3479$Ii2.2457@trnddc09>...
> "Transition Zone" <mogulah@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3f224cda.0409190639.3cc13d41@posting.google.com...
> > Kerry served two tours in Vietnam. Live with it.
>
> No.

Major newspapers say yes. Which means you are lying about Kerry, lady.

Duke
2004-09-19 18:33:38 EST
On 19 Sep 2004 07:39:14 -0700, mogulah@hotmail.com (Transition Zone) wrote:

>Kerry served two tours in Vietnam. Live with it.

And Bush has almost 4 years as President of the United States, and flipper has none. Live
with it.


duke
*****
Matthew 22
14"For many are invited, but few are chosen."
*****
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