Bible Discussion: Is John W. A Liar Or Not? A Journey Of Discovery Commences!

Is John W. A Liar Or Not? A Journey Of Discovery Commences!
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Andrew
2003-08-06 16:35:20 EST
John W has claimed on these groups (amongst his 1st century church in
Ephesus posts) that a Baptist church exists in England whose building
dates from 525 AD. I have reason to believe that he is, at best,
mistaken that such a structure exists.

Despite the fact that, when pressed, John W changes his account or
admits that his memory may have been a little foggy on certain
details, I believe it is possible to prove once and for all the
truthfulness of his story. As God would have it, I am visiting a town
called Sawbridgeworth on Saturday (9th August 2003) for a friend's
birthday. It's about a 2 hour detour from there to both the possible
locations of John W's 6th Century church. I propose to visit both
sites and document my findings (or lack thereof).

To recap (for those who don't know this particular saga), here are the
details as John W has claimed in previous posts:

- The church is located just outside the gatehouse of either RAF
Alconbury or RAF Lakenheath. However, from other posts John W has
made, the village of Little Stukeley (that contains RAF Alconbury's
gatehouse) seems the most likely candidate. This is supported by OS
Map evidence
- The church clearly has a cornerstone dated "525 AD"
- It is a small structure, capable of holding between 50-100 people at
most (large discrepancy I know)
- It is of stone block construction, with the blocks resembling
granite
- The interior is sparse, a foot-pedalled organ being the only object
of note
- Apparently, carved into the stone somewhere is an inscription "First
Baptist Church" or similar

I have my doubts about this building for the following reasons:

- 525 AD corresponds to the height of pagan worship by the
Anglo-Saxons. Christianity did not begin its resurgence until the
beginning of the 7th century. So, what were heathens doing building
churches??
- Granite does not occur in Little Stukeley (or Lakenheath), it would
have to have been transported hundreds of miles.
- There are *no* records that I can find that detail such an old
church in this area. This could be omission, but *younger* churches in
the same area have clear documentation available online.
- The Baptist movement did not originate until the 17th Century, after
the reformation. The earliest Baptist chapels are not recorded until
1644 AD in this region of the UK.

My intentions of this journey are merely to discover the truth. This
is not a witch-hunt. I have no desire to "expose" John W as a liar
(although if no 525 AD church exists, that will be the conclusion
drawn by some). If I travel to the area and find the church there as
he stated, I will document it, upload the images to the web and post a
formal apology for doubting his word.

So Mr John W, with the above in mind, do you still stand by your story
and do you have any further information that would help me locate this
building you have discussed? Are you happy with my course of action?

I will report my findings early next week (either on the 11th or 12th
August 2003) on this thread. I will also post a web link to the images
I will be taking with the digicam.

Andrew

Don
2003-08-06 16:59:22 EST
On 6 Aug 2003 13:35:20 -0700, ah_mini@hotmail.com (Andrew) wrote:

>John W has claimed on these groups (amongst his 1st century church in
>Ephesus posts) that a Baptist church exists in England whose building
>dates from 525 AD. I have reason to believe that he is, at best,
>mistaken that such a structure exists.

Andrew, you sound like a reasonable person, a fairly sane person. Are
you aware that you are attempting to reason with a schizophrenic mind?
You are attempting to reason with the irrational.

>Despite the fact that, when pressed, John W changes his account or
>admits that his memory may have been a little foggy on certain
>details, I believe it is possible to prove once and for all the
>truthfulness of his story.

It doesn't matter. The schizophrenic mind does not care if it is true
or false. The schizophrenic mind only wants to draw you into endless
arguments that go one forever. Notice, you mentioned TWO strategies
of the schizophrenic mind:
1) He "changes his account" of the story, adjusts the facts to fit.
2) He admits [claims] that he "forgets" what he said, the truth.

>My intentions of this journey are merely to discover the truth.

He doesn't care.

>If I travel to the area and find the church there as
>he stated, I will document it, upload the images to the web and post a
>formal apology for doubting his word.

He doesn't care. The schizophrenic mind has already accomplished more
of what he wanted...to be the topic of discussion.

>So Mr John W, with the above in mind, do you still stand by your story
>and do you have any further information that would help me locate this
>building you have discussed? Are you happy with my course of action?

Again, the schizophrenic mind wins. He is the topic of
discussion...not the Lord, not the Church.

>I will report my findings early next week (either on the 11th or 12th
>August 2003) on this thread. I will also post a web link to the images
>I will be taking with the digicam.

Even more popularity for the schizophrenic mind, the center of
attention, complete with photos.

1) Always the topic of conversation
2) When that dies down, start a new thread and be the topic of
conversation once again.
3) Positive or negative doesn't matter, just be the center of
attention and eventually, turn the conversation into an argument.

Get ready to be called heretic and demoniac.

D*



"Improvisation is second-nature to me. I was an actor, you know."

--Helen Hayes
Hawaii Five-0, 1975

Galia
2003-08-06 18:03:57 EST

"Andrew" <ah_mini@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:27eaec6.0308061235.38b1fe66@posting.google.com...
> John W has claimed on these groups (amongst his 1st century church in
> Ephesus posts) that a Baptist church exists in England whose building
> dates from 525 AD. I have reason to believe that he is, at best,
> mistaken that such a structure exists.
>
> Despite the fact that, when pressed, John W changes his account or
> admits that his memory may have been a little foggy on certain
> details, I believe it is possible to prove once and for all the
> truthfulness of his story. As God would have it, I am visiting a town
> called Sawbridgeworth on Saturday (9th August 2003) for a friend's
> birthday. It's about a 2 hour detour from there to both the possible
> locations of John W's 6th Century church. I propose to visit both
> sites and document my findings (or lack thereof).
>
> To recap (for those who don't know this particular saga), here are the
> details as John W has claimed in previous posts:
>
> - The church is located just outside the gatehouse of either RAF
> Alconbury or RAF Lakenheath. However, from other posts John W has
> made, the village of Little Stukeley (that contains RAF Alconbury's
> gatehouse) seems the most likely candidate. This is supported by OS
> Map evidence
> - The church clearly has a cornerstone dated "525 AD"
> - It is a small structure, capable of holding between 50-100 people at
> most (large discrepancy I know)
> - It is of stone block construction, with the blocks resembling
> granite
> - The interior is sparse, a foot-pedalled organ being the only object
> of note
> - Apparently, carved into the stone somewhere is an inscription "First
> Baptist Church" or similar
>
> I have my doubts about this building for the following reasons:
>
> - 525 AD corresponds to the height of pagan worship by the
> Anglo-Saxons. Christianity did not begin its resurgence until the
> beginning of the 7th century. So, what were heathens doing building
> churches??
> - Granite does not occur in Little Stukeley (or Lakenheath), it would
> have to have been transported hundreds of miles.
> - There are *no* records that I can find that detail such an old
> church in this area. This could be omission, but *younger* churches in
> the same area have clear documentation available online.
> - The Baptist movement did not originate until the 17th Century, after
> the reformation. The earliest Baptist chapels are not recorded until
> 1644 AD in this region of the UK.
>
> My intentions of this journey are merely to discover the truth. This
> is not a witch-hunt. I have no desire to "expose" John W as a liar
> (although if no 525 AD church exists, that will be the conclusion
> drawn by some). If I travel to the area and find the church there as
> he stated, I will document it, upload the images to the web and post a
> formal apology for doubting his word.
>
> So Mr John W, with the above in mind, do you still stand by your story
> and do you have any further information that would help me locate this
> building you have discussed? Are you happy with my course of action?
>
> I will report my findings early next week (either on the 11th or 12th
> August 2003) on this thread. I will also post a web link to the images
> I will be taking with the digicam.
>
> Andrew

Mr. John W.:
Why don't you answer Andrew????

galia



Galia
2003-08-06 18:51:57 EST

Have you not noticed John, that Andrew is going through all this trouble
just to verify your claim that there is a Baptist church from 525 AD in
England???

Why don't you acknowledge it?
I have pasted part of your reply regarding the church in Ephesus, where you
criticise people in this NG for not getting off their "a**" to make a trip
to turkey.
Here Andrew is driving the extra mileage, and YOU just ignore it!!
Why is that, John?

galia
> >> > >>>"John W" <john_weatherly47@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> > >
> I will not admit there's no church where I was merely because the
> uneducated, untraveled, can't get off their asses long enough to go
> see for themselves. They aren't interested; they merely sit in here
> looking for people to attack.
>
> Move on.
>
> John W

"Andrew" <ah_mini@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:27eaec6.0308061235.38b1fe66@posting.google.com...
> John W has claimed on these groups (amongst his 1st century church in
> Ephesus posts) that a Baptist church exists in England whose building
> dates from 525 AD. I have reason to believe that he is, at best,
> mistaken that such a structure exists.
>
> Despite the fact that, when pressed, John W changes his account or
> admits that his memory may have been a little foggy on certain
> details, I believe it is possible to prove once and for all the
> truthfulness of his story. As God would have it, I am visiting a town
> called Sawbridgeworth on Saturday (9th August 2003) for a friend's
> birthday. It's about a 2 hour detour from there to both the possible
> locations of John W's 6th Century church. I propose to visit both
> sites and document my findings (or lack thereof).
>
> To recap (for those who don't know this particular saga), here are the
> details as John W has claimed in previous posts:
>
> - The church is located just outside the gatehouse of either RAF
> Alconbury or RAF Lakenheath. However, from other posts John W has
> made, the village of Little Stukeley (that contains RAF Alconbury's
> gatehouse) seems the most likely candidate. This is supported by OS
> Map evidence
> - The church clearly has a cornerstone dated "525 AD"
> - It is a small structure, capable of holding between 50-100 people at
> most (large discrepancy I know)
> - It is of stone block construction, with the blocks resembling
> granite
> - The interior is sparse, a foot-pedalled organ being the only object
> of note
> - Apparently, carved into the stone somewhere is an inscription "First
> Baptist Church" or similar
>
> I have my doubts about this building for the following reasons:
>
> - 525 AD corresponds to the height of pagan worship by the
> Anglo-Saxons. Christianity did not begin its resurgence until the
> beginning of the 7th century. So, what were heathens doing building
> churches??
> - Granite does not occur in Little Stukeley (or Lakenheath), it would
> have to have been transported hundreds of miles.
> - There are *no* records that I can find that detail such an old
> church in this area. This could be omission, but *younger* churches in
> the same area have clear documentation available online.
> - The Baptist movement did not originate until the 17th Century, after
> the reformation. The earliest Baptist chapels are not recorded until
> 1644 AD in this region of the UK.
>
> My intentions of this journey are merely to discover the truth. This
> is not a witch-hunt. I have no desire to "expose" John W as a liar
> (although if no 525 AD church exists, that will be the conclusion
> drawn by some). If I travel to the area and find the church there as
> he stated, I will document it, upload the images to the web and post a
> formal apology for doubting his word.
>
> So Mr John W, with the above in mind, do you still stand by your story
> and do you have any further information that would help me locate this
> building you have discussed? Are you happy with my course of action?
>
> I will report my findings early next week (either on the 11th or 12th
> August 2003) on this thread. I will also post a web link to the images
> I will be taking with the digicam.
>
> Andrew




John W
2003-08-06 20:23:59 EST
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:51:57 -0400, "galia" <galia@netrover.com> wrote:

>
>Have you not noticed John, that Andrew is going through all this trouble
>just to verify your claim that there is a Baptist church from 525 AD in
>England???
>
>Why don't you acknowledge it?
>I have pasted part of your reply regarding the church in Ephesus, where you
>criticise people in this NG for not getting off their "a**" to make a trip
>to turkey.
>Here Andrew is driving the extra mileage, and YOU just ignore it!!
>Why is that, John?
>
>galia
>> >> > >>>"John W" <john_weatherly47@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >> > >
>> I will not admit there's no church where I was merely because the
>> uneducated, untraveled, can't get off their asses long enough to go
>> see for themselves. They aren't interested; they merely sit in here
>> looking for people to attack.
>>
>> Move on.
>>
>> John W
>
>"Andrew" <ah_mini@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:27eaec6.0308061235.38b1fe66@posting.google.com...
>> John W has claimed on these groups (amongst his 1st century church in
>> Ephesus posts) that a Baptist church exists in England whose building
>> dates from 525 AD. I have reason to believe that he is, at best,
>> mistaken that such a structure exists.
>>
>> Despite the fact that, when pressed, John W changes his account or
>> admits that his memory may have been a little foggy on certain
>> details, I believe it is possible to prove once and for all the
>> truthfulness of his story. As God would have it, I am visiting a town
>> called Sawbridgeworth on Saturday (9th August 2003) for a friend's
>> birthday. It's about a 2 hour detour from there to both the possible
>> locations of John W's 6th Century church. I propose to visit both
>> sites and document my findings (or lack thereof).

I am sorry to have missed this wonderful news. But you must
understand, when I get so much nasty mail including from you, I see
your name, now, and I pass over it.


As I seem to understand your information, you DID understand that my
memory is hazy and I frankly do not recall to be PRECISE whether the
tiny church was outside ( to the left when facing the AFB's main gate,
from the outside, facing the guard shack) either Lakenheath AFB ( I
forget the county), or RAF Alconbury, East Anglia, Huntingtonshire.
Either base, the little gray (?) stone (?) church is to the left of
the main gate of the RAF base.

The size of the church would be ROUGHLY 25' square. It's plain
outside, plain inside. There were no icons when I was there, and a
footpumped pipe organ to the right of the sanctuary.
I don't recall where the pulpit was, though I want to say that the new
pastor ( I realized later that this was a church planting committee,
opening a "long-unused church") was positioned on the same level as
the congregation

I think the church would not hold more than 50 people, and that would
be full.

If I have made a mistake on the cornerstone, and it reads 565 AD, I
apologize.

Someone mentioned awhile back that the AD should have been first. That
may have become the standard. The AD on the church in turkey was AFTER
the number.

If someone finds the church and it's AD 62, I'll apologize.

>>
>> To recap (for those who don't know this particular saga), here are the
>> details as John W has claimed in previous posts:
>>
>> - The church is located just outside the gatehouse of either RAF
>> Alconbury or RAF Lakenheath.

Correct.

However, from other posts John W has made, the village of Little
Stukeley (that contains RAF Alconbury's gatehouse) seems the most
likely candidate.

Sorry. I don't know where Little Stuckley came from, unless it's the
tiny hamlet the base or church actually resides in. however, the Base
is in the town of East Anglia, the church is the First Baptist church
of East Anglia, as I recall. County of Huntingtonshire (?).

Again, I apologize. The Little Stuckley was a brain anomalie. The
church and the base are in East Anglia,

This is supported by OS
>> Map evidence
>> - The church clearly has a cornerstone dated "525 AD"
>> - It is a small structure, capable of holding between 50-100 people at
>> most (large discrepancy I know)
>> - It is of stone block construction, with the blocks resembling
>> granite
>> - The interior is sparse, a foot-pedalled organ being the only object
>> of note
>> - Apparently, carved into the stone somewhere is an inscription "First
>> Baptist Church" or similar

I'm squjnting the eyes of my mind to read the Title of the church. I
won't swear that it's not a wood sign. My best recollection, however,
is the name, East Anglia First Baptist Church, or to that effect.
The whole reason I was shocked and remarked on it was some had almost
convince me that we Baptists didn't exist in the 5th C.

We did.

>>
>> I have my doubts about this building for the following reasons:
>>
>> - 525 AD corresponds to the height of pagan worship by the
>> Anglo-Saxons. Christianity did not begin its resurgence until the
>> beginning of the 7th century. So, what were heathens doing building
>> churches??
>> - Granite does not occur in Little Stukeley (or Lakenheath), it would
>> have to have been transported hundreds of miles.
>> - There are *no* records that I can find that detail such an old
>> church in this area. This could be omission, but *younger* churches in
>> the same area have clear documentation available online.
>> - The Baptist movement did not originate until the 17th Century, after
>> the reformation. The earliest Baptist chapels are not recorded until
>> 1644 AD in this region of the UK.

Why do you think I was so excited to find that church? Engraved with
the name First Baptist Church East Anglia, 525 AD

Exciting stuff! It means I've found ANOTHER mistake the "experts"
made.

I LOVE doing that! You're too loyal to the bookworms! You need to get
out more. So, whatcha gonna believe, a measly building with a Baptist
in its name, and a cornerstone that says 6th C, or ya gonna believe
the book god?

>>
>> My intentions of this journey are merely to discover the truth. This
>> is not a witch-hunt. I have no desire to "expose" John W as a liar
>> (although if no 525 AD church exists, that will be the conclusion
>> drawn by some).

Well, a few have suggested delusional. I mentioned that with a laugh
to my shrink today, and he said , "uh uh!"

If I travel to the area and find the church there as
>> he stated, I will document it, upload the images to the web and post a
>> formal apology for doubting his word.

I'll be expecting that, but frankly? I don't believe you. I'm planning
by hook or crook to find my own way to Turkey. I don't suppose you'd
consider paying MY way so I can keep you honest?

>>
>> So Mr John W, with the above in mind, do you still stand by your story
>> and do you have any further information that would help me locate this
>> building you have discussed? Are you happy with my course of action?

Please stay in contact with me as you travel, and I'll fill in any
details I remember. I will say again that I have a disease that is
little by little erasing my mind. I've given you the best Info I can
recall. And yes, I stand by every period, every comma. I wish I could
recall which base, but to save yourself time, head out to East Anglia,
Huntingtonshire, first. That way, if my recall is on, you have gotten
to the right place first. If it's East Anglia (RAF Alconbury), when
you drive by the base (it's on your right), you will look for a small
light gray (stone?) building, 1 story, an overgrown shoebox. The first
thing you'll see, on YOUR side, is the cornerstone. I want a picture
of that cornerstone, so I can laugh at all of YOU for a change!
YOU OWE ME THAT!
To the opposite side (as I recall, this could be wrong), is the "East
Anglia First Baptist..." Don't expect everything to be on one side and
miss both or either.

I'd LOVE to list all the towns between London and East Anglia. I
barely recall Ealy, and that's about the best. The OTHER way, you hit
Cambridge. so you know now that it's between Cambridge and London
"over a bump."

You might use your notebook to look up RAF Alconbury on a map or
atlas. That should give you precise directions if you're on a service.

If you have any EMERGENCY questions, by all means, use my email
address,

john_weatherly47@yahoo.com

If you need to contact me, don't get lost in here. I probably check my
e-mail 5 times a day.

And don't miss the church because you're looking for this BIG
building. Whoever built the church worked with available labor. They
may have been a tiny (20 or 30) flock.

The church is VERY small, and it just sits there beside the road.

I'm going to be upset if you're looking for a porta potty or a Crystal
Cathedral and you miss it.

I am not a liar. Those who know me have said, "John, it's been a full
life!" I wish it had continued, it's quite empty now.

But you all have taught me one thing. I'll keep my other 100
discoveries to myself.

You all aren't ready for The Truth. You can only handle what you've
been taught by myopic teachers. I've told many of you that I have
corrected and taught my scholars.

I was the one who discovered denominations in the New Testament. Other
churches began to pop up even as Jesus preached. By the time the 1st C
had ended, rather than there being 1 church, there were probably 25 -
50 denominations, IN THE 1ST CENTURY.

But you all can't handle the REAL meaning in the Bible. You're all
merely skeptics and babes.

>>
>> I will report my findings early next week (either on the 11th or 12th
>> August 2003) on this thread.

FANTASTIC. And should you have the opportunity to expand your trip to
Izmir, Turkey, I want pictures of THAT church, too. (Just ask for the
BIG CHURCH when you get to Izmir.

I will also post a web link to the images
>> I will be taking with the digicam.

Thanks. I am in your debt.

John W
>>
>> Andrew
>
>

(John the Baptist)

10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,
and knowledge of the Holy one is understanding.
Prov 9:10
NIV

______________________________________________________________________
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John W
2003-08-06 20:31:18 EST
On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 16:44:08 -0500, David Jensen
<*d@dajensen-family.com> wrote:

>In alt.talk.creationism, ah_mini@hotmail.com (Andrew) wrote in
><27eaec6.0308061235.38b1fe66@posting.google.com>:
>
>...
>>I will report my findings early next week (either on the 11th or 12th
>>August 2003) on this thread. I will also post a web link to the images
>>I will be taking with the digicam.
>
>It should be interesting to read your report, even if John W follows his
>predictable behavior and claims that you didn't look in the right place.

For you of no mind, if Andrew truly goes to EITHER front gate, one or
the other has a church perched just outside the main gate.

You can't miss it unless you're trying.

I wish he'd bet me a grand he wouldn't find it. Easy money.

:-)

John W

(John the Baptist)

10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,
and knowledge of the Holy one is understanding.
Prov 9:10
NIV

______________________________________________________________________
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John W
2003-08-06 20:31:50 EST
On 6 Aug 2003 13:35:20 -0700, ah_mini@hotmail.com (Andrew) wrote:

>John W has claimed on these groups (amongst his 1st century church in
>Ephesus posts) that a Baptist church exists in England whose building
>dates from 525 AD. I have reason to believe that he is, at best,
>mistaken that such a structure exists.
>
>Despite the fact that, when pressed, John W changes his account or
>admits that his memory may have been a little foggy on certain
>details, I believe it is possible to prove once and for all the
>truthfulness of his story. As God would have it, I am visiting a town
>called Sawbridgeworth on Saturday (9th August 2003) for a friend's
>birthday. It's about a 2 hour detour from there to both the possible
>locations of John W's 6th Century church. I propose to visit both
>sites and document my findings (or lack thereof).

Wanna bet you won't find it? ;-)

kidding.


>
>To recap (for those who don't know this particular saga), here are the
>details as John W has claimed in previous posts:
>
>- The church is located just outside the gatehouse of either RAF
>Alconbury or RAF Lakenheath. However, from other posts John W has
>made, the village of Little Stukeley (that contains RAF Alconbury's
>gatehouse) seems the most likely candidate. This is supported by OS
>Map evidence
>- The church clearly has a cornerstone dated "525 AD"
>- It is a small structure, capable of holding between 50-100 people at
>most (large discrepancy I know)
>- It is of stone block construction, with the blocks resembling
>granite
>- The interior is sparse, a foot-pedalled organ being the only object
>of note
>- Apparently, carved into the stone somewhere is an inscription "First
>Baptist Church" or similar
>
>I have my doubts about this building for the following reasons:
>
>- 525 AD corresponds to the height of pagan worship by the
>Anglo-Saxons. Christianity did not begin its resurgence until the
>beginning of the 7th century. So, what were heathens doing building
>churches??
>- Granite does not occur in Little Stukeley (or Lakenheath), it would
>have to have been transported hundreds of miles.
>- There are *no* records that I can find that detail such an old
>church in this area. This could be omission, but *younger* churches in
>the same area have clear documentation available online.
>- The Baptist movement did not originate until the 17th Century, after
>the reformation. The earliest Baptist chapels are not recorded until
>1644 AD in this region of the UK.
>
>My intentions of this journey are merely to discover the truth. This
>is not a witch-hunt. I have no desire to "expose" John W as a liar
>(although if no 525 AD church exists, that will be the conclusion
>drawn by some). If I travel to the area and find the church there as
>he stated, I will document it, upload the images to the web and post a
>formal apology for doubting his word.
>
>So Mr John W, with the above in mind, do you still stand by your story
>and do you have any further information that would help me locate this
>building you have discussed? Are you happy with my course of action?
>
>I will report my findings early next week (either on the 11th or 12th
>August 2003) on this thread. I will also post a web link to the images
>I will be taking with the digicam.
>
>Andrew

(John the Baptist)

10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,
and knowledge of the Holy one is understanding.
Prov 9:10
NIV

______________________________________________________________________
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Libertarius
2003-08-06 20:37:51 EST


galia wrote:

> Have you not noticed John, that Andrew is going through all this trouble
> just to verify your claim that there is a Baptist church from 525 AD in
> England???
>
> Why don't you acknowledge it?
> I have pasted part of your reply regarding the church in Ephesus, where you
> criticise people in this NG for not getting off their "a**" to make a trip
> to turkey.

===>I was there in '95.
Hungary, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Turkey, Greece, Cyprus and
yes, the "Holy Land", i.e. Israel, which he claims is only PART
of the "Holy Land". In his sick mind it includes even Spain!

The things John W. asserts are totally false!

Ancient Ephesus is now Efes (and Kusadasi).
Ancient Smyrna is now Izmir (or Ismir).
There never was a Christian church building built in the first century.
There could NOT have been a corner stone labeled "A.D.".

John W. is getting way too much attention with his falsehoods.
I went through this with him months ago. He must have been really bored
to resurrect his lies in order to start an argument.

For now this is my last post on the subject.
Perhaps I may be willing, for the sake of others, to repeat my points
if the topic reappears in another year or so.

My best to y'all!

Libertarius
==========

>
> Here Andrew is driving the extra mileage, and YOU just ignore it!!
> Why is that, John?
>
> galia
> > >> > >>>"John W" <john_weatherly47@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > >> > >
> > I will not admit there's no church where I was merely because the
> > uneducated, untraveled, can't get off their asses long enough to go
> > see for themselves. They aren't interested; they merely sit in here
> > looking for people to attack.
> >
> > Move on.
> >
> > John W
>
> "Andrew" <ah_mini@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:27eaec6.0308061235.38b1fe66@posting.google.com...
> > John W has claimed on these groups (amongst his 1st century church in
> > Ephesus posts) that a Baptist church exists in England whose building
> > dates from 525 AD. I have reason to believe that he is, at best,
> > mistaken that such a structure exists.
> >
> > Despite the fact that, when pressed, John W changes his account or
> > admits that his memory may have been a little foggy on certain
> > details, I believe it is possible to prove once and for all the
> > truthfulness of his story. As God would have it, I am visiting a town
> > called Sawbridgeworth on Saturday (9th August 2003) for a friend's
> > birthday. It's about a 2 hour detour from there to both the possible
> > locations of John W's 6th Century church. I propose to visit both
> > sites and document my findings (or lack thereof).
> >
> > To recap (for those who don't know this particular saga), here are the
> > details as John W has claimed in previous posts:
> >
> > - The church is located just outside the gatehouse of either RAF
> > Alconbury or RAF Lakenheath. However, from other posts John W has
> > made, the village of Little Stukeley (that contains RAF Alconbury's
> > gatehouse) seems the most likely candidate. This is supported by OS
> > Map evidence
> > - The church clearly has a cornerstone dated "525 AD"
> > - It is a small structure, capable of holding between 50-100 people at
> > most (large discrepancy I know)
> > - It is of stone block construction, with the blocks resembling
> > granite
> > - The interior is sparse, a foot-pedalled organ being the only object
> > of note
> > - Apparently, carved into the stone somewhere is an inscription "First
> > Baptist Church" or similar
> >
> > I have my doubts about this building for the following reasons:
> >
> > - 525 AD corresponds to the height of pagan worship by the
> > Anglo-Saxons. Christianity did not begin its resurgence until the
> > beginning of the 7th century. So, what were heathens doing building
> > churches??
> > - Granite does not occur in Little Stukeley (or Lakenheath), it would
> > have to have been transported hundreds of miles.
> > - There are *no* records that I can find that detail such an old
> > church in this area. This could be omission, but *younger* churches in
> > the same area have clear documentation available online.
> > - The Baptist movement did not originate until the 17th Century, after
> > the reformation. The earliest Baptist chapels are not recorded until
> > 1644 AD in this region of the UK.
> >
> > My intentions of this journey are merely to discover the truth. This
> > is not a witch-hunt. I have no desire to "expose" John W as a liar
> > (although if no 525 AD church exists, that will be the conclusion
> > drawn by some). If I travel to the area and find the church there as
> > he stated, I will document it, upload the images to the web and post a
> > formal apology for doubting his word.
> >
> > So Mr John W, with the above in mind, do you still stand by your story
> > and do you have any further information that would help me locate this
> > building you have discussed? Are you happy with my course of action?
> >
> > I will report my findings early next week (either on the 11th or 12th
> > August 2003) on this thread. I will also post a web link to the images
> > I will be taking with the digicam.
> >
> > Andrew


John W
2003-08-06 20:55:24 EST
On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 18:37:51 -0600, Libertarius
<*s@Nothing_But_The_Truth.net> wrote:

>
>
>galia wrote:
>
>> Have you not noticed John, that Andrew is going through all this trouble
>> just to verify your claim that there is a Baptist church from 525 AD in
>> England???
>>
>> Why don't you acknowledge it?
>> I have pasted part of your reply regarding the church in Ephesus, where you
>> criticise people in this NG for not getting off their "a**" to make a trip
>> to turkey.
>
>===>I was there in '95.
>Hungary, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Turkey, Greece, Cyprus and
>yes, the "Holy Land", i.e. Israel, which he claims is only PART
>of the "Holy Land". In his sick mind it includes even Spain!
>
>The things John W. asserts are totally false!
>
>Ancient Ephesus is now Efes (and Kusadasi).
>Ancient Smyrna is now Izmir (or Ismir).
>There never was a Christian church building built in the first century.
>There could NOT have been a corner stone labeled "A.D.".
>
>John W. is getting way too much attention with his falsehoods.
>I went through this with him months ago. He must have been really bored
>to resurrect his lies in order to start an argument.
>
> For now this is my last post on the subject.
>Perhaps I may be willing, for the sake of others, to repeat my points
>if the topic reappears in another year or so.

Lobotomy is the LIAR! And a demoniac to boot, I bet. Lobo! I'm sure
looking forward to meeting YOU after Christ comes!

;-)

John W

>
> My best to y'all!
>
> Libertarius
>==========
>
>>
>> Here Andrew is driving the extra mileage, and YOU just ignore it!!
>> Why is that, John?
>>
>> galia
>> > >> > >>>"John W" <john_weatherly47@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> > >> > >
>> > I will not admit there's no church where I was merely because the
>> > uneducated, untraveled, can't get off their asses long enough to go
>> > see for themselves. They aren't interested; they merely sit in here
>> > looking for people to attack.
>> >
>> > Move on.
>> >
>> > John W
>>
>> "Andrew" <ah_mini@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:27eaec6.0308061235.38b1fe66@posting.google.com...
>> > John W has claimed on these groups (amongst his 1st century church in
>> > Ephesus posts) that a Baptist church exists in England whose building
>> > dates from 525 AD. I have reason to believe that he is, at best,
>> > mistaken that such a structure exists.
>> >
>> > Despite the fact that, when pressed, John W changes his account or
>> > admits that his memory may have been a little foggy on certain
>> > details, I believe it is possible to prove once and for all the
>> > truthfulness of his story. As God would have it, I am visiting a town
>> > called Sawbridgeworth on Saturday (9th August 2003) for a friend's
>> > birthday. It's about a 2 hour detour from there to both the possible
>> > locations of John W's 6th Century church. I propose to visit both
>> > sites and document my findings (or lack thereof).
>> >
>> > To recap (for those who don't know this particular saga), here are the
>> > details as John W has claimed in previous posts:
>> >
>> > - The church is located just outside the gatehouse of either RAF
>> > Alconbury or RAF Lakenheath. However, from other posts John W has
>> > made, the village of Little Stukeley (that contains RAF Alconbury's
>> > gatehouse) seems the most likely candidate. This is supported by OS
>> > Map evidence
>> > - The church clearly has a cornerstone dated "525 AD"
>> > - It is a small structure, capable of holding between 50-100 people at
>> > most (large discrepancy I know)
>> > - It is of stone block construction, with the blocks resembling
>> > granite
>> > - The interior is sparse, a foot-pedalled organ being the only object
>> > of note
>> > - Apparently, carved into the stone somewhere is an inscription "First
>> > Baptist Church" or similar
>> >
>> > I have my doubts about this building for the following reasons:
>> >
>> > - 525 AD corresponds to the height of pagan worship by the
>> > Anglo-Saxons. Christianity did not begin its resurgence until the
>> > beginning of the 7th century. So, what were heathens doing building
>> > churches??
>> > - Granite does not occur in Little Stukeley (or Lakenheath), it would
>> > have to have been transported hundreds of miles.
>> > - There are *no* records that I can find that detail such an old
>> > church in this area. This could be omission, but *younger* churches in
>> > the same area have clear documentation available online.
>> > - The Baptist movement did not originate until the 17th Century, after
>> > the reformation. The earliest Baptist chapels are not recorded until
>> > 1644 AD in this region of the UK.
>> >
>> > My intentions of this journey are merely to discover the truth. This
>> > is not a witch-hunt. I have no desire to "expose" John W as a liar
>> > (although if no 525 AD church exists, that will be the conclusion
>> > drawn by some). If I travel to the area and find the church there as
>> > he stated, I will document it, upload the images to the web and post a
>> > formal apology for doubting his word.
>> >
>> > So Mr John W, with the above in mind, do you still stand by your story
>> > and do you have any further information that would help me locate this
>> > building you have discussed? Are you happy with my course of action?
>> >
>> > I will report my findings early next week (either on the 11th or 12th
>> > August 2003) on this thread. I will also post a web link to the images
>> > I will be taking with the digicam.
>> >
>> > Andrew

(John the Baptist)

10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,
and knowledge of the Holy one is understanding.
Prov 9:10
NIV

______________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
<><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>


Phar-Lap
2003-08-07 00:54:10 EST

>
>
> > John W has claimed on these groups (amongst his 1st century church in
> > Ephesus posts) that a Baptist church exists in England whose building
> > dates from 525 AD. I have reason to believe that he is, at best,
> > mistaken that such a structure exists.
> >
> > Despite the fact that, when pressed, John W changes his account or
> > admits that his memory may have been a little foggy on certain
> > details, I believe it is possible to prove once and for all the
> > truthfulness of his story. As God would have it, I am visiting a town
> > called Sawbridgeworth on Saturday (9th August 2003) for a friend's
> > birthday. It's about a 2 hour detour from there to both the possible
> > locations of John W's 6th Century church. I propose to visit both
> > sites and document my findings (or lack thereof).
> >


That a church in East Anglia built on such early foundations is quite
possible but it would have been an Orthodox Church liked to Constantinople
and not either a Baptist Church or a Catholic Church linked to Rome

I lived in East Anglia for a year some thirty years ago and worked in
Norwich. There were many old churches in the villages but the oldest
were all from the early medieval period

There were also some excellent pubs

I'm safraid yours truly spent more time visiting pubs than visiting churches.

In those days Norwich people were amongst the most laid back in the
world. I remember a friend in Norwich ringing up directory enquiries for
a phone number.

The operator asked "Which town please"

He replied "Norwich"

The operator replied "Nardge (Norwich) is not a town - its a city - It's
got a cathedral"

At the University residences - which looked like a towering barracks block
(inside and out) a rather pissed trumpeter would play "The Last Post" in
full from the summit every night at half past eleven - in those days the
pubs shut at eleven.

"Are we now goin"

Yup

"Is that roight now"

Yup


+
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