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Pastor Dave
2004-08-02 12:25:43 EST


http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/2nd.html

Matthew 24, commonly known as "the Olivet discourse",
is our Lord's prophecies regarding His so-called
"second coming". Verse 3 is the most important verse
in this whole chapter, because the entirety of Matthew
24 is in response to this specific question asked in
verse 3 by the apostles. If you don't understand their
question, you will never understand Jesus' answer. We
must be sure we understand the question first.



Pastor Dave Raymond

"Were they ashamed when they made an abomination?
They were not at all ashamed, nor did they know
to blush. So they shall fall among those who fall.
At the time I visit them, they shall be cast down,
says Jehovah." - Jeremiah 6:15

"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17

/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\


Christians are the light of the world, but the switch
has to be turned on.



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Melchizedek
2004-08-02 15:01:42 EST

"Pastor Dave" <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:q4qsg0l3od2mi6t28o3msuog7laiie2hlc@4ax.com...
>
>
> http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/2nd.html
>
> Matthew 24, commonly known as "the Olivet discourse",
> is our Lord's prophecies regarding His so-called
> "second coming". Verse 3 is the most important verse
> in this whole chapter, because the entirety of Matthew
> 24 is in response to this specific question asked in
> verse 3 by the apostles. If you don't understand their
> question, you will never understand Jesus' answer. We
> must be sure we understand the question first.
>
How true, but Your opinion is flawed..... :-D.


Thy Kingdom Come
by Dr. Chuck Missler

ftp://\in:out@65.127.169.45/=DRIVE=bibleweb-drive/=CD-R=thy-kingdom-come/index-web.html

But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house
of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall
be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. And many nations
shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and
to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we
will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of
the LORD from Jerusalem.
- Micah 4:1-2

GOD'S PROMISES ARE UNCHANGEABLE

For anyone who takes the Bible seriously, the numerous explicit prophecies by
God that the Messiah would literally rule from Zion cannot be ignored or explained away.
In fact, it was the linchpin of Jesus' teachings. Sadly, it is one of the most
controversial and misunderstood teachings in the Church today.

In this briefing pack, Chuck Missler and Albert Israeli will explore mysteries
of the Kingdom teachings, including the detailed Millennial Temple and the confinement
and release of the Evil One.

Take a glimpse into the past and the future of the Church in this fundamental teaching
on the Kingdom of God.

Thy Kingdom Come Commentary
(MP3 Audio + PDF Notes)


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<><
=== A Christian Bible Study Collection ===
Bibleweb.Info -- 250Gb online - 1.5Tb DVD archive
Comprehensive Old & New Testament Bible studies,
prophecy, commentaries, concordances, apologetics,
Bible lookups, and multiple translations. PowerPoint,
movies in RealAudio, MP3, MediaPlayer, Adobe PDF
formats with free readers. A rich set of web site
links, continually being updated.
http://bibleweb.info/


Premillennialism in the Old Testament
ftp://\guest:guest@65.127.169.45/premillennialism-in-the-old-testament.html

Also Read:
"The Footsteps of the Messiah", Revised Edition
(with related video and commentary files), by Dr. Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum

By Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum
I. The Basis for the Belief in the Messianic Kingdom

Premillennialists have often been criticized for basing their belief in a Millennium entirely on one passage of Scripture,
Revelation 20. Because it is found in a book well noted for its high use of symbols, they say it is foolish to take the one thousand
years literally. But that is hardly a valid criticism. To begin with, while it is true that the Book of Revelation uses many
symbols, it has already been shown that the meaning of all those symbols is explained either within the Book of Revelation itself or
elsewhere in the Scriptures. Furthermore, never are years used in a symbolic way in this book. If they are symbolic, the symbolism
is nowhere explained. The mention of 1,260 days, 42 months, and 3\ufffd years are all literal and not symbolic. Hence, there is no need
to take the one thousand years as anything but literal years. The desire to spiritualize the text always places the burden of proof
on the interpreter. Without objective proof it will result in a subjective interpretation.

...... more via the link above.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<><
=== A Christian Bible Study Collection ===
Bibleweb.Info -- 250Gb online - 1.5Tb DVD archive
Comprehensive Old & New Testament Bible studies,
prophecy, commentaries, concordances, apologetics,
Bible lookups, and multiple translations. PowerPoint,
movies in RealAudio, MP3, MediaPlayer, Adobe PDF
formats with free readers. A rich set of web site
links, continually being updated.
http://bibleweb.info/

Some screen shots:
ftp://\guest:guest@65.127.169.45/bibleweb/bibleweb-info-screen-shots.html

Some archive listings are also accessible there.

What's New at Bibleweb.Info
http://bibleweb.info/ftp/whats-new.html

-- Why Read the Bible?
-- How We Got Our Bible
-- Meditations on the Excellencies of the Word of God (Psalm 119)
-- How to Study the Bible

-- Battle for the Church in the Last Days
-- Introduction to Prophecy
-- Signs of the LORD's Return
-- How to Study Bible Prophecy
-- The Rapture
-- Are You Ready for the Rapture?

Small Group Study Materials
Verse-by-Verse, Chapter-by-Chapter, Book-by-Book
Teaching (Audio - MP3) Commentary
Small Group Bible Study Materials
(From: Calvary Chapel with Sr. Pastor Joe Focht) [Over 750 hours]

Small Group Bible Study Materials - Thru-the-Bible
-- Old Testament & New Testament
(From: Searchlight with Pastor Jon Courson) [Over 1200 hours]

*** Additional Materials in the Member's Area ***






Pastor Dave
2004-08-02 16:37:03 EST
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Mon, 2 Aug 2004 15:01:42 -0400, "Melchizedek"
<*k@as-if.com> screamed out:

>
>"Pastor Dave" <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:q4qsg0l3od2mi6t28o3msuog7laiie2hlc@4ax.com...
>>
>>
>> http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/2nd.html
>>
>> Matthew 24, commonly known as "the Olivet discourse",
>> is our Lord's prophecies regarding His so-called
>> "second coming". Verse 3 is the most important verse
>> in this whole chapter, because the entirety of Matthew
>> 24 is in response to this specific question asked in
>> verse 3 by the apostles. If you don't understand their
>> question, you will never understand Jesus' answer. We
>> must be sure we understand the question first.
>>
> How true, but Your opinion is flawed..... :-D.

It isn't MY opinion. :) I didn't write it.


> Thy Kingdom Come
>by Dr. Chuck Missler
>
> ftp://\in:out@65.127.169.45/=DRIVE=bibleweb-drive/=CD-R=thy-kingdom-come/index-web.html
>
>But in the last days it shall come to pass,

Hebrews 1:1-2

1) God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake
in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2) Hath IN THESE LAST DAYS spoken unto us by his Son,
whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also
he made the worlds;

Now when was that written?



Pastor Dave Raymond

"Were they ashamed when they made an abomination?
They were not at all ashamed, nor did they know
to blush. So they shall fall among those who fall.
At the time I visit them, they shall be cast down,
says Jehovah." - Jeremiah 6:15

"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17

/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\


The church does not determine what Scripture teaches;
Scripture determines what the church teaches.

If a tradition or experience is contrary to the
teachings of Scripture, it is not of the Lord.

Reason is a significant authority. But it too,
must be placed under the dominion of Scripture.

In other words, we cannot seek Biblical truths,
while questioning the authority of the Bible.



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Oldwetdog
2004-08-03 14:20:21 EST
Pastor Dave wrote:

>
> http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/2nd.html
>
> Matthew 24, commonly known as "the Olivet discourse",
> is our Lord's prophecies regarding His so-called
> "second coming". Verse 3 is the most important verse
> in this whole chapter, because the entirety of Matthew
> 24 is in response to this specific question asked in
> verse 3 by the apostles. If you don't understand their
> question, you will never understand Jesus' answer. We
> must be sure we understand the question first.
>
>

Mat. 24:3. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came
unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and
what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

FIRST: There are three parts to the apostles question, or Three questions:
a, When shall these things be?
b, what shall be the sign of thy coming?
c, (what shall be the sign) of the end of the world?

Prior to this verse, He had described some events. What were those
events? and did those events have anything to do with 'the end of the
world'? or did at least one of those described events have something to
do with the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70?

If the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 did not have anything to do
with the end of the world, then your assertion, above, is in error, OR
we need to locate His description of that event.

Since the end of the world *and* the destruction of Jerusalem did not
occur in the lifetime of *that* generation, then some of them must still
be alive.

33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is
near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all
these things be fulfilled.

Next, in verse 33, "it" could mean the destruction of Jerusalem, or
"these things" could mean the end of this world, but since both those
events did not occur in the lifetime of His/their generation, "it" could
not be both.

And next, in verse 34, He said "all these things...." there is no
rational/Truthful way to eliminate some of these named events from the
term "all" *unless* He was describing two sets of events. The first set
of events was the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, and the second set
of events is "His coming and the end of the world." In this case (two
sets of events) the term "all" must include all the events He described
as "end-time" events, and all those events *must* occur in the lifetime
of ONE generation.

Any student of scripture who loves Truth will compare the description of
the Olivette Discourse as given by both Matthew and Luke, and compare
the significant difference between them. Do they, Matthew and Luke,
describe two sets of events?

Otherwise, as preterist do, just ignore the Truth by distorting the
meaning of the term "generation" and ignoring the TWO sets of events
described by Luke and Matthew.


Preterist doctrine is a lie of Satan.

owd

There is a study of end-time events available, free, at:
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/

--

+-<[:-)>>>- oldwetdog

Melchizedek
2004-08-03 23:26:11 EST

"oldwetdog" <old*wet*dog@netscapeD0Tnet> wrote in message news:10gvlr739s43959@corp.supernews.com...
>
> Preterist doctrine is a lie of Satan.
>
> owd
>
> There is a study of end-time events available, free, at:
> http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/
>
> --
>
> +-<[:-)>>>- oldwetdog


The Rapture and End-Time Events

13 Biblical Scholars Discuss
- The Rapture and Christ's Second Coming
- Dr. John Walvoord, Hal Lindsey, Dr. Zola Levitt, Peter Lalonde, Dr. David Breese,
- Dr. Renald Showers, Dr. John Feinberg, Dr. Paul Feinberg, Dr. Earl Radmacher,
- Dr. Randal Price, Dave Hunt, Dr. Elwood McQuaid, and Dr. Jimmy DeYoung

Discuss:
- Pretribulationalists, Midtribulationists, Posttribulationists - what do they believe?
- How the Jewish wedding ceremony forms the back ground of Jesus' words in John 14
- Key biblical passages about the rapture.
- Verses that teach the Rapture could happen any moment.
- The difference between afflictions and the wrath of God
- Why Christians will never experience the wrath of God during the Tribulation
- Does the Bible teach two future comings of the Lord
- One before the Tribulation Period and one after?
- Daniel 9:27 and the Tribulation
- What does Jesus say about the Tribulation in Matthew 24?
- What takes place on earth when the seals are broken in Heaven?
- A comparison of Revelation 6 with Matthew 24


SAMPLE a partial & small screen size of the video here:

ftp://\in:out@65.127.169.45/=DRIVE=bibleweb-drive/=samples=/01-07-the-rapture-and-end-time-events-sample.wmv


*** Actual Fullscreen Materials in the Member's Area For Download ***

[ The Rapture & End Time Events (2hour 30min video) ]

The remainder of this study is part of the Member's Area,
(see below or access http://bibleweb.info/
for more info).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<><
=== A Christian Bible Study Collection ===
Bibleweb.Info -- 250Gb online - 1.5Tb DVD archive
Comprehensive Old & New Testament Bible studies,
prophecy, commentaries, concordances, apologetics,
Bible lookups, and multiple translations. PowerPoint,
movies in RealAudio, MP3, MediaPlayer, Adobe PDF
formats with free readers. A rich set of web site
links, continually being updated.
http://bibleweb.info/

Some screen shots:
ftp://\guest:guest@65.127.169.45/bibleweb/bibleweb-info-screen-shots.html

Some archive listings are also accessible there.

What's New at Bibleweb.Info
http://bibleweb.info/ftp/whats-new.html


GUEST Area Topics:

-- Why Read the Bible?
-- How We Got Our Bible
-- Meditations on the Excellencies of the Word of God (Psalm 119)
-- How to Study the Bible
-- Battle for the Church in the Last Days
-- Introduction to Prophecy
-- Signs of the LORD's Return
-- How to Study Bible Prophecy
-- The Rapture
-- Are You Ready for the Rapture?
-- Small Group Study Materials
-- Verse-by-Verse, Chapter-by-Chapter, Book-by-Book
-- Teaching (Audio - MP3) Commentary

-- Small Group Bible Study Materials
(From: Calvary Chapel with Sr. Pastor Joe Focht) [Over 750 hours]

-- Small Group Bible Study Materials - Thru-the-Bible
-- Old Testament -- New Testament
(From: Searchlight with Pastor Jon Courson) [Over 1200 hours]

*** Additional Materials in the Member's Area ***







Pastor Dave
2004-08-04 07:53:39 EST
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Tue, 03 Aug 2004 11:20:21 -0700, oldwetdog
<old*wet*dog@netscapeD0Tnet> screamed out:


>Pastor Dave wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/2nd.html
>>
>> Matthew 24, commonly known as "the Olivet discourse",
>> is our Lord's prophecies regarding His so-called
>> "second coming". Verse 3 is the most important verse
>> in this whole chapter, because the entirety of Matthew
>> 24 is in response to this specific question asked in
>> verse 3 by the apostles. If you don't understand their
>> question, you will never understand Jesus' answer. We
>> must be sure we understand the question first.
>>
>>
>
>Mat. 24:3. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came
>unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and
>what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
>
>FIRST: There are three parts to the apostles question, or Three questions:
>a, When shall these things be?
>b, what shall be the sign of thy coming?
>c, (what shall be the sign) of the end of the world?
>
>Prior to this verse, He had described some events. What were those
>events? and did those events have anything to do with 'the end of the
>world'? or did at least one of those described events have something to
>do with the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70?
>
>If the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 did not have anything to do
>with the end of the world, then your assertion, above, is in error, OR
>we need to locate His description of that event.
>
>Since the end of the world *and* the destruction of Jerusalem did not
>occur in the lifetime of *that* generation, then some of them must still
>be alive.

This is a common tactic in the end timers argument, but
it doesn't hold water, because it's not based on what
Jesus said, but rather, what an incorrect English
translation says. See below.


>33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is
>near, even at the doors.
>34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all
>these things be fulfilled.
>
>Next, in verse 33, "it" could mean the destruction of Jerusalem, or
>"these things" could mean the end of this world, but since both those
>events did not occur in the lifetime of His/their generation, "it" could
>not be both.
>
>And next, in verse 34, He said "all these things...." there is no
>rational/Truthful way to eliminate some of these named events from the
>term "all" *unless* He was describing two sets of events. The first set
>of events was the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, and the second set
>of events is "His coming and the end of the world." In this case (two
>sets of events) the term "all" must include all the events He described
>as "end-time" events, and all those events *must* occur in the lifetime
>of ONE generation.
>
>Any student of scripture who loves Truth will compare the description of
>the Olivette Discourse as given by both Matthew and Luke, and compare
>the significant difference between them. Do they, Matthew and Luke,
>describe two sets of events?
>
>Otherwise, as preterist do, just ignore the Truth by distorting the
>meaning of the term "generation" and ignoring the TWO sets of events
>described by Luke and Matthew.
>
>
>Preterist doctrine is a lie of Satan.

That's an interesting claim, but one you're not able to
prove. The word Jesus used, should not be translated,
"world". That would be the Greek word, "kosmos" and it
isn't found there, in the original Greek. The word
there is, "aion", which means, "an age". The verse
actually reads...

"And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the
disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell
us, when shall these be? and what is the sign of thy
presence, and of the full END OF THE AGE?"
- Matthew 24:3 [YLT]

"And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the
disciples came to Him privately, saying, Tell us, when
will these things be? And, What is the sign of Your
coming and of the END OF THE AGE?"
- Matthew 24:3 [LITV]

"As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came
to him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will this be,
and what will be the sign of your coming and of the
CLOSE OF THE AGE?"" - Matthew 24:3 [RSV]

"Then as He is sitting on the Mount of Olives, the
disciples approached Him privately, saying, "Tell us
when these [things] will be? And what [is] the sign of
Your Arrival and of the CONCLUSION OF THE AGE?""
- Matthew 24:3 [ALT]

"And as he was sitting upon the mount of Olives the
disciples came to him privately, saying, Tell us, when
shall these things be, and what is the sign of thy
coming and the COMPLETION OF THE AGE?"
- Matthew 24:3 [Darby]

"Afterwards He was on the Mount of Olives and was
seated there when the disciples came to Him, apart from
the others, and said, "Tell us when this will be; and
what will be the sign of your Coming and of the CLOSE
OF THE AGE?"" - Matthew 24:3 [WNT]

"And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the
disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when
will this be, and what will be the sign of your coming,
and of the CONSUMMATION OF THE AGE?""
- Matthew 24:3 [MRC]



Pastor Dave Raymond

"Were they ashamed when they made an abomination?
They were not at all ashamed, nor did they know
to blush. So they shall fall among those who fall.
At the time I visit them, they shall be cast down,
says Jehovah." - Jeremiah 6:15

"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17

/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\


"Species that were once thought to have turned into
others have been found to overlap in time with these
alleged descendants. In fact, the fossil record does
not convincingly document a single transition from one
species to another." (Stanley, S.M., The New
Evolutionary Timetable: Fossils, Genes, and the Origin
of Species, 1981, p. 95)



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Oldwetdog
2004-08-04 20:43:43 EST
Pastor Dave wrote:
> While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
> Tue, 03 Aug 2004 11:20:21 -0700, oldwetdog
> <old*wet*dog@netscapeD0Tnet> screamed out:
>
>
>
>>Pastor Dave wrote:
>>
>>
>>>http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/2nd.html
>>>
>>>Matthew 24, commonly known as "the Olivet discourse",
>>>is our Lord's prophecies regarding His so-called
>>>"second coming". Verse 3 is the most important verse
>>>in this whole chapter, because the entirety of Matthew
>>>24 is in response to this specific question asked in
>>>verse 3 by the apostles. If you don't understand their
>>>question, you will never understand Jesus' answer. We
>>>must be sure we understand the question first.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Mat. 24:3. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came
>>unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and
>>what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
>>
>>FIRST: There are three parts to the apostles question, or Three questions:
>>a, When shall these things be?
>>b, what shall be the sign of thy coming?
>>c, (what shall be the sign) of the end of the world?
>>
>>Prior to this verse, He had described some events. What were those
>>events? and did those events have anything to do with 'the end of the
>>world'? or did at least one of those described events have something to
>>do with the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70?
>>
>>If the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 did not have anything to do
>>with the end of the world, then your assertion, above, is in error, OR
>>we need to locate His description of that event.
>>
>>Since the end of the world *and* the destruction of Jerusalem did not
>>occur in the lifetime of *that* generation, then some of them must still
>>be alive.
>
>
> This is a common tactic in the end timers argument, but
> it doesn't hold water, because it's not based on what
> Jesus said, but rather, what an incorrect English
> translation says. See below.
>
>
>
>>33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is
>>near, even at the doors.
>>34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all
>>these things be fulfilled.
>>
>>Next, in verse 33, "it" could mean the destruction of Jerusalem, or
>>"these things" could mean the end of this world, but since both those
>>events did not occur in the lifetime of His/their generation, "it" could
>>not be both.
>>
>>And next, in verse 34, He said "all these things...." there is no
>>rational/Truthful way to eliminate some of these named events from the
>>term "all" *unless* He was describing two sets of events. The first set
>>of events was the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, and the second set
>>of events is "His coming and the end of the world." In this case (two
>>sets of events) the term "all" must include all the events He described
>>as "end-time" events, and all those events *must* occur in the lifetime
>>of ONE generation.
>>
>>Any student of scripture who loves Truth will compare the description of
>>the Olivette Discourse as given by both Matthew and Luke, and compare
>>the significant difference between them. Do they, Matthew and Luke,
>>describe two sets of events?
>>
>>Otherwise, as preterist do, just ignore the Truth by distorting the
>>meaning of the term "generation" and ignoring the TWO sets of events
>>described by Luke and Matthew.
>>
>>
>>Preterist doctrine is a lie of Satan.
>
>
> That's an interesting claim, but one you're not able to
> prove. The word Jesus used, should not be translated,
> "world". That would be the Greek word, "kosmos" and it
> isn't found there, in the original Greek. The word
> there is, "aion", which means, "an age". The verse
> actually reads...
>
> "And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the
> disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell
> us, when shall these be? and what is the sign of thy
> presence, and of the full END OF THE AGE?"
> - Matthew 24:3 [YLT]
>
> "And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the
> disciples came to Him privately, saying, Tell us, when
> will these things be? And, What is the sign of Your
> coming and of the END OF THE AGE?"
> - Matthew 24:3 [LITV]
>
> "As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came
> to him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will this be,
> and what will be the sign of your coming and of the
> CLOSE OF THE AGE?"" - Matthew 24:3 [RSV]
>
> "Then as He is sitting on the Mount of Olives, the
> disciples approached Him privately, saying, "Tell us
> when these [things] will be? And what [is] the sign of
> Your Arrival and of the CONCLUSION OF THE AGE?""
> - Matthew 24:3 [ALT]
>
> "And as he was sitting upon the mount of Olives the
> disciples came to him privately, saying, Tell us, when
> shall these things be, and what is the sign of thy
> coming and the COMPLETION OF THE AGE?"
> - Matthew 24:3 [Darby]
>
> "Afterwards He was on the Mount of Olives and was
> seated there when the disciples came to Him, apart from
> the others, and said, "Tell us when this will be; and
> what will be the sign of your Coming and of the CLOSE
> OF THE AGE?"" - Matthew 24:3 [WNT]
>
> "And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the
> disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when
> will this be, and what will be the sign of your coming,
> and of the CONSUMMATION OF THE AGE?""
> - Matthew 24:3 [MRC]
>
>

Fine, I don't have any problem with "the end of the age."

Now using the term "end of the age" lets compare all the events J'shua
gives --in Mat 24 and Luke 21, with Daniel, Revelation, et al-- as
prophetic events bywhich we can recognize that the event (end of the
age) will occur.

owd

--
+-<[:-)>>>- oldwetdog
-----
God brings men into deep waters, not to drown them, but to cleanse them.
Aughey
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/
.

Pastor Dave
2004-08-05 08:23:17 EST
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Wed, 04 Aug 2004 17:43:43 -0700, oldwetdog
<old*wet*dog@netscapeD0Tnet> screamed out:

>Pastor Dave wrote:
>> While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
>> Tue, 03 Aug 2004 11:20:21 -0700, oldwetdog
>> <old*wet*dog@netscapeD0Tnet> screamed out:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Pastor Dave wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/2nd.html
>>>>
>>>>Matthew 24, commonly known as "the Olivet discourse",
>>>>is our Lord's prophecies regarding His so-called
>>>>"second coming". Verse 3 is the most important verse
>>>>in this whole chapter, because the entirety of Matthew
>>>>24 is in response to this specific question asked in
>>>>verse 3 by the apostles. If you don't understand their
>>>>question, you will never understand Jesus' answer. We
>>>>must be sure we understand the question first.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Mat. 24:3. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came
>>>unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and
>>>what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
>>>
>>>FIRST: There are three parts to the apostles question, or Three questions:
>>>a, When shall these things be?
>>>b, what shall be the sign of thy coming?
>>>c, (what shall be the sign) of the end of the world?
>>>
>>>Prior to this verse, He had described some events. What were those
>>>events? and did those events have anything to do with 'the end of the
>>>world'? or did at least one of those described events have something to
>>>do with the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70?
>>>
>>>If the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70 did not have anything to do
>>>with the end of the world, then your assertion, above, is in error, OR
>>>we need to locate His description of that event.
>>>
>>>Since the end of the world *and* the destruction of Jerusalem did not
>>>occur in the lifetime of *that* generation, then some of them must still
>>>be alive.
>>
>>
>> This is a common tactic in the end timers argument, but
>> it doesn't hold water, because it's not based on what
>> Jesus said, but rather, what an incorrect English
>> translation says. See below.
>>
>>
>>
>>>33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is
>>>near, even at the doors.
>>>34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all
>>>these things be fulfilled.
>>>
>>>Next, in verse 33, "it" could mean the destruction of Jerusalem, or
>>>"these things" could mean the end of this world, but since both those
>>>events did not occur in the lifetime of His/their generation, "it" could
>>>not be both.
>>>
>>>And next, in verse 34, He said "all these things...." there is no
>>>rational/Truthful way to eliminate some of these named events from the
>>>term "all" *unless* He was describing two sets of events. The first set
>>>of events was the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70, and the second set
>>>of events is "His coming and the end of the world." In this case (two
>>>sets of events) the term "all" must include all the events He described
>>>as "end-time" events, and all those events *must* occur in the lifetime
>>>of ONE generation.
>>>
>>>Any student of scripture who loves Truth will compare the description of
>>>the Olivette Discourse as given by both Matthew and Luke, and compare
>>>the significant difference between them. Do they, Matthew and Luke,
>>>describe two sets of events?
>>>
>>>Otherwise, as preterist do, just ignore the Truth by distorting the
>>>meaning of the term "generation" and ignoring the TWO sets of events
>>>described by Luke and Matthew.
>>>
>>>
>>>Preterist doctrine is a lie of Satan.
>>
>>
>> That's an interesting claim, but one you're not able to
>> prove. The word Jesus used, should not be translated,
>> "world". That would be the Greek word, "kosmos" and it
>> isn't found there, in the original Greek. The word
>> there is, "aion", which means, "an age". The verse
>> actually reads...
>>
>> "And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the
>> disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell
>> us, when shall these be? and what is the sign of thy
>> presence, and of the full END OF THE AGE?"
>> - Matthew 24:3 [YLT]
>>
>> "And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the
>> disciples came to Him privately, saying, Tell us, when
>> will these things be? And, What is the sign of Your
>> coming and of the END OF THE AGE?"
>> - Matthew 24:3 [LITV]
>>
>> "As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came
>> to him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will this be,
>> and what will be the sign of your coming and of the
>> CLOSE OF THE AGE?"" - Matthew 24:3 [RSV]
>>
>> "Then as He is sitting on the Mount of Olives, the
>> disciples approached Him privately, saying, "Tell us
>> when these [things] will be? And what [is] the sign of
>> Your Arrival and of the CONCLUSION OF THE AGE?""
>> - Matthew 24:3 [ALT]
>>
>> "And as he was sitting upon the mount of Olives the
>> disciples came to him privately, saying, Tell us, when
>> shall these things be, and what is the sign of thy
>> coming and the COMPLETION OF THE AGE?"
>> - Matthew 24:3 [Darby]
>>
>> "Afterwards He was on the Mount of Olives and was
>> seated there when the disciples came to Him, apart from
>> the others, and said, "Tell us when this will be; and
>> what will be the sign of your Coming and of the CLOSE
>> OF THE AGE?"" - Matthew 24:3 [WNT]
>>
>> "And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the
>> disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when
>> will this be, and what will be the sign of your coming,
>> and of the CONSUMMATION OF THE AGE?""
>> - Matthew 24:3 [MRC]
>>
>>
>
>Fine, I don't have any problem with "the end of the age."

You should. It completely blows apart your argument of
having to look for a world wide destruction.


>Now using the term "end of the age" lets compare all the events J'shua
>gives --in Mat 24 and Luke 21, with Daniel, Revelation, et al-- as
>prophetic events bywhich we can recognize that the event (end of the
>age) will occur.

Just throwing the names of books of the Bible there
does not make your case. If you have specific passages
to discuss, then list them here and tell me what you
are claiming they are saying.

As for "an age", you don't seem to understand that in
the Bible, there is more than one "age" that the Bible
itself discusses. For example, there was the age of
the Mosaic Law. That is what Jesus came to end, not
the world.

Try reading the following, with emphasis where I put it

Colossians 1:23-26

23) If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled,
and be not moved away from the hope of THE GOSPEL,
which ye have heard, and which WAS PREACHED TO EVERY
CREATURE which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made
a minister;
24) Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill
up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in
my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
25) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the
dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to
fulfil the word of God;
26) Even the mystery which hath been HID FROM AGES and
from generations, but now is made manifest to his
saints:



Pastor Dave Raymond

"Were they ashamed when they made an abomination?
They were not at all ashamed, nor did they know
to blush. So they shall fall among those who fall.
At the time I visit them, they shall be cast down,
says Jehovah." - Jeremiah 6:15

"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17

/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\


http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/bryanp/Evolution/Gre.Sci..htm



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Oldwetdog
2004-08-05 08:45:32 EST
Pastor Dave wrote:

>
>

[clip]

>>>
>>>"And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the
>>>disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when
>>>will this be, and what will be the sign of your coming,
>>>and of the CONSUMMATION OF THE AGE?""
>>>- Matthew 24:3 [MRC]
>>>
>>>
>>

owd
>>Fine, I don't have any problem with "the end of the age."
>
>

pd
> You should. It completely blows apart your argument of
> having to look for a world wide destruction.

Please quote scripture to support your assumption that "the end of the
age" DOES NOT INCLUDE THE 'END OF THE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE' and the return
of the Messiah to gather His People.

Otherwise, do you state that this world (universe) will not be destroyed
at His return?


>
>
>

owd
>>Now using the term "end of the age" lets compare all the events J'shua
>>gives --in Mat 24 and Luke 21, with Daniel, Revelation, et al-- as
>>prophetic events bywhich we can recognize that the event (end of the
>>age) will occur.
>
>


--
+-<[:-)>>>- oldwetdog
-----
God brings men into deep waters, not to drown them, but to cleanse them.
Aughey
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/
.

Pastor Dave
2004-08-05 09:45:20 EST
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Mon, 2 Aug 2004 15:01:42 -0400, "Melchizedek"
<*k@as-if.com> screamed out:

>
>"Pastor Dave" <nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:q4qsg0l3od2mi6t28o3msuog7laiie2hlc@4ax.com...
>>
>>
>> http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/2nd.html
>>
>> Matthew 24, commonly known as "the Olivet discourse",
>> is our Lord's prophecies regarding His so-called
>> "second coming". Verse 3 is the most important verse
>> in this whole chapter, because the entirety of Matthew
>> 24 is in response to this specific question asked in
>> verse 3 by the apostles. If you don't understand their
>> question, you will never understand Jesus' answer. We
>> must be sure we understand the question first.
>>
> How true, but Your opinion is flawed..... :-D.

It isn't MY opinion. :) I didn't write it. My opinions are NEVER flawed.


> Thy Kingdom Come
>by Dr. Chuck Missler
>
> ftp://\in:out@65.127.169.45/=DRIVE=bibleweb-drive/=CD-R=thy-kingdom-com
> e/index-web.html
>
>But in the last days it shall come to pass,

Hebrews 1:1-2

1) God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake
in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2) Hath IN THESE LAST DAYS spoken unto us by his Son,
whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also
he made the worlds;

Now when was that written?





--

� Pastor Dave �

"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor to follow thee:
neither have I desired the woeful day; thou knowest: that which came out
of my lips was right before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16

"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is
the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
/}
@#####{]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\}

"As will be all too evident, when we examine the creationists' position
in detail, their arguments are devoid of any real intellectual content.
Creationists win debates because of their canny stage presence, and not
through clarity of logic or force of evidence. The debates are shows
rather than serious considerations of evolution."

"To the extent that creationism is science, of course, it is merely bad
science. Mostly, it isn't science at all." (p21)

"Creationists seek to dilute the science curriculum with the equivalent
of medical quackery." (p22)

"Students ought to know that the evidence for evolution has been
scrupulously scrutinized daily by thousands of biologists for well over a
hundred years -- and no one yet has called a press conference trumpeting
his new proof that evolution had NOT occurred. Evolution is as well-
established a scientific notion as gravity. A student ought to know
that." (p23)

"For 'creation-science' isn't science at all nor have creation
'scientists' managed to come up with a single intellectually compelling,
scientifically testable statement about the natural world." (p80) -- The
Monkey Business, Niles Eldredge, 1982

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