Bible Discussion: Your Average Ignorant Atheist

Your Average Ignorant Atheist
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Xomicron
2004-07-13 15:14:32 EST
I am surprised by the amount of hostility some posters display towards the
Bible (which they don't appear to have ever studied) and to "religion" as
if all religous beliefs had a common source and were therefore equally
deserving of denigration.

It may surprise some of these posters to know that Christians hold a
variety of conflicting beliefs. Many do not accept Hebrew folklore as
being literally true or believe in a literal and historic couple named
Adam and Eve, a flood which covered the entire planet, talking snakes and
donkeys, not do I believe that Earth is a mere 6000 or 7000 years old.

The Bible is a great anthology of folklore, history, law, poetry,
prophecy, and genealogy. Some Christians hold to an absolute literal
infallibility, while others believe it is a book of truth but not in every
case LITERAL truth. Most atheists on usenet have clearly demonstrated a
hatred of all scripture blinded by a lack of theological education and
overestimation of their own reasoning and ability to understand the truths
of the universe.

I wholeheartedly believe in a Supreme Being, yet I also can see that our
earth and the universe have undergone much change that is far from over.

Science and religion are not diametrically opposed as your average
ignorant atheist might think. Many books have been written to demonstrate
this. You'll find them in the science section of many good bookstores.

Lars Eighner
2004-07-13 15:23:30 EST
In our last episode,
<c8d7$40f43498$5006cf5a$12594@nf1.news-service-com>,
the lovely and talented Xomicron
broadcast on alt.atheism:

> I am surprised by the amount of hostility some posters display towards the
> Bible (which they don't appear to have ever studied) and to "religion" as
> if all religous beliefs had a common source and were therefore equally
> deserving of denigration.

You don't need to know the Bible to know what it is: all you have
to do is observe the behavior of those who believe in it. The
Bible is just words, and actions speak louder than words.

--
Rev. Lars Eighner, ULC, Atheist #1965 eighner@io.com http://www.io.com/~eighner
"I hope I never get so old I get religious." --Ingmar Bergman

Osprey
2004-07-13 15:27:45 EST

"Lars Eighner" <eighner@io.com> wrote in message
news:slrncf8dg9.1a6j.eighner@goodwill.io.com...
> In our last episode,
> <c8d7$40f43498$5006cf5a$12594@nf1.news-service-com>,
> the lovely and talented Xomicron
> broadcast on alt.atheism:
>
> > I am surprised by the amount of hostility some posters display towards
the
> > Bible (which they don't appear to have ever studied) and to "religion"
as
> > if all religous beliefs had a common source and were therefore equally
> > deserving of denigration.
>
> You don't need to know the Bible to know what it is: all you have
> to do is observe the behavior of those who believe in it. The
> Bible is just words, and actions speak louder than words.

You wouldn't be generalizing would you?

I have to seriously question those who number themselves

> --
> Rev. Lars Eighner, ULC, Atheist #1965 eighner@io.com
http://www.io.com/~eighner
> "I hope I never get so old I get religious." --Ingmar Bergman



Xomicron
2004-07-13 15:47:17 EST
Lars Eighner <eighner@io.com> wrote in
news:slrncf8dg9.1a6j.eighner@goodwill.io.com:

> You don't need to know the Bible to know what it is

I wonder if anyone can top the idiocy of the above statement.

Alan Connor
2004-07-13 16:05:08 EST
On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 21:14:32 +0200, Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:
>
>
> I am surprised by the amount of hostility some posters display towards the
> Bible (which they don't appear to have ever studied) and to "religion" as
> if all religous beliefs had a common source and were therefore equally
> deserving of denigration.
>
> It may surprise some of these posters to know that Christians hold a
> variety of conflicting beliefs. Many do not accept Hebrew folklore as
> being literally true or believe in a literal and historic couple named
> Adam and Eve, a flood which covered the entire planet, talking snakes and
> donkeys, not do I believe that Earth is a mere 6000 or 7000 years old.
>
> The Bible is a great anthology of folklore, history, law, poetry,
> prophecy, and genealogy. Some Christians hold to an absolute literal
> infallibility, while others believe it is a book of truth but not in every
> case LITERAL truth. Most atheists on usenet have clearly demonstrated a
> hatred of all scripture blinded by a lack of theological education and
> overestimation of their own reasoning and ability to understand the truths
> of the universe.
>
> I wholeheartedly believe in a Supreme Being, yet I also can see that our
> earth and the universe have undergone much change that is far from over.
>
> Science and religion are not diametrically opposed as your average
> ignorant atheist might think. Many books have been written to demonstrate
> this. You'll find them in the science section of many good bookstores.

'Science' *is* a religion. It is based upon concepts about the nature of
reality that can't be proven or disproven using its own methodologies.

They have to be taken on faith.

The dominant religion of any society doesn't call itself a 'religion'. It
calls itself 'the truth', which is an exact translation of the word
'science'.

All the *other* religions are called 'religions'.

AC


John Ings
2004-07-13 16:33:02 EST
On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 21:14:32 +0200, Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:

>I am surprised by the amount of hostility some posters display towards the
>Bible (which they don't appear to have ever studied)

On the contrary, I am hostile toward the Bible
because I HAVE studied it.

> and to "religion" as
>if all religous beliefs had a common source and were therefore equally
>deserving of denigration.

That source being fear and superstition, and it is indeed common to
nearly all religions, with a very few exceptions.

>It may surprise some of these posters to know that Christians hold a
>variety of conflicting beliefs.

That's no surprise at all. In fact divisiveness and sectarianism in
religion is one of the causes of atheism.

>Many do not accept Hebrew folklore as
>being literally true or believe in a literal and historic couple named
>Adam and Eve, a flood which covered the entire planet, talking snakes and
>donkeys, not do I believe that Earth is a mere 6000 or 7000 years old.

Do they believe in a census that never happened, Roman taxation in
Herod's Judea, and a journey to Bethlehem that would not have been
necessary if the former had taken place? How about the phony miracles
and the bogus prophecies in the NT?

>The Bible is a great anthology of folklore, history, law, poetry,
>prophecy, and genealogy

Plus political polemics, theological fabrications, apocalyptic
pipedreams and outright lies.

> Some Christians hold to an absolute literal
>infallibility, while others believe it is a book of truth but not in every
>case LITERAL truth.

Literal truth is the only kind there is. Your pretense that there is
some esoteric wisdom and 'spiritual truth' (whatever the hell that
is!) in your muddy parables and allegories is your conceit.

> Most atheists on usenet have clearly demonstrated a
>hatred of all scripture blinded by a lack of theological education and
>overestimation of their own reasoning and ability to understand the truths
>of the universe.

You learn no truths about the universe from theology. The only
expertise one gains from theology is a better ability to delude
oneself.

>I wholeheartedly believe in a Supreme Being,

For no valid reason beyond the fact it comforts you.

> yet I also can see that our
>earth and the universe have undergone much change that is far from over.

But apparently you can't see that no sane deity would underwrite the
malignant concepts the Bible claims he does.

>Science and religion are not diametrically opposed as your average
>ignorant atheist might think. Many books have been written to demonstrate
>this. You'll find them in the science section of many good bookstores.

"The truth is that every priest who really understands the nature of
his business is well aware that science is its natural and implacable
enemy . . . The truth is that Christian theology like every other
theology, is opposed to the scientific spirit, it is also opposed to
all attempts at rational thinking." H.L. Mencken

""Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the
aid of spiritual things, but -- more frequently than not-- struggles
against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from
God. [...] Whoever wants to be a Christian should tear the eyes out of
his reason" Martin Luther

## Religion explains to ignorance the nature of the unknowable



E*@drizzle.com
2004-07-13 16:37:51 EST
Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> writes:

> I am surprised by the amount of hostility some posters display towards the
> Bible (which they don't appear to have ever studied) and to "religion" as
> if all religous beliefs had a common source and were therefore equally
> deserving of denigration.

Yet you should not also be surprised at those of us who remain
atheists despite having read the entire book, twice, and much of it in
Hebrew or early Latin translations, and still find the entire process
wanting.

> Many do not accept Hebrew folklore as being literally true or believe
> in a literal and historic couple named Adam and Eve, a flood which
> covered the entire planet, talking snakes and donkeys, not do I
> believe that Earth is a mere 6000 or 7000 years old.

Which begs the eternal question: by what criteria do you decide
that some parts of the Bible are meant not to be taken literally? Once
you have made the choice to discard portions of the Word of God as
"literally true," you are in the realm of choosing for yourself what
constitutes truth. Ignoring the Word of God is ignoring the Word of
God, and no amount of pretty language is going to change that fact.
Either you are fundamentally and uncritically accepting of what God has
written for you, are you're in rebellion.

> Science and religion are not diametrically opposed as your average
> ignorant atheist might think. Many books have been written to demonstrate
> this. You'll find them in the science section of many good bookstores.

There should be a dialogue between science and religion.
However, I disagree that it should be a *constructive* dialogue.

Elf

AnotherObserver=AE?=
2004-07-13 16:48:15 EST
Xomicron <xomicron@wp.pl> wrote:

>I am surprised by the amount of hostility some posters display towards the
>Bible (which they don't appear to have ever studied) and to "religion" as
>if all religous beliefs had a common source and were therefore equally
>deserving of denigration.
>
I'm surprise by the amount of irrelevant groups originally included in
your post.

>It may surprise some of these posters to know that Christians hold a
>variety of conflicting beliefs. Many do not accept Hebrew folklore as
>being literally true or believe in a literal and historic couple named
>Adam and Eve, a flood which covered the entire planet, talking snakes and
>donkeys, not do I believe that Earth is a mere 6000 or 7000 years old.
>
I doubt this surprises many thinking, rational atheists. From literal
to spiritualist Christian, we have an old term for them all and it's
called "Salad Bar Christianity". Go ahead and take just the parts
that please you, so long as you can call yourself a Christian nothing
else matters.

Do you believe that the son of man died on a cross, was sent to hell
[buried] and was later risen alive? The proper answer to this
question offers credence to the club, so be careful.

>The Bible is a great anthology of folklore, history, law, poetry,
>prophecy, and genealogy. Some Christians hold to an absolute literal
>infallibility, while others believe it is a book of truth but not in every
>case LITERAL truth. Most atheists on usenet have clearly demonstrated a
>hatred of all scripture blinded by a lack of theological education and
>overestimation of their own reasoning and ability to understand the truths
>of the universe.
>
Theological education?! Your wonderful metaphorical truth is really
gained in accordance to the mere mortal thoughts of those who guide
you. Plus, a great assortment of nonsense mounds to nothing but
organized nonsense, apparently you've overestimated your own theology.
Xomicronism?

>I wholeheartedly believe in a Supreme Being, yet I also can see that our
>earth and the universe have undergone much change that is far from over.
>
I wholeheartedly believe in a Supreme Being too, alias Lucy.

>Science and religion are not diametrically opposed as your average
>ignorant atheist might think. Many books have been written to demonstrate
>this. You'll find them in the science section of many good bookstores.
>
Of course if there are books written this automatically means
ineffable truth in the subject matter, discernable to only the most
gifted and blessed servants of His Majesty.

Oh! If only I could be blessed with the gift in order to make that
faint connection between the collective metaphorical meaning of
assorted ancient ideas/ideals with today's science, I'd have all the
answers and proofs of your Supreme Being.

Besides being gifted by the spirit, should I learn to be a master of
generalization in order to even begin making that connection?

Should I just get the books and read them as you suggest? What could
books such as those possibly offer besides generalized theoretical
ideas based on the true mean of select metaphorical passages?

Are they convincing enough to turn a skeptical mind into a believer,
or are they only good for the wishful thinkers who are looking for
affirmation in their beliefs?
--
Davidwd
~~~~~~~~~
alt.atheism

Pastor Dave
2004-07-13 16:54:18 EST
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Tue, 13 Jul 2004 21:14:32 +0200, Xomicron
<*n@wp.pl> screamed out:

>I am surprised by the amount of hostility some posters display towards the
>Bible (which they don't appear to have ever studied) and to "religion" as
>if all religous beliefs had a common source and were therefore equally
>deserving of denigration.
>
>It may surprise some of these posters to know that Christians hold a
>variety of conflicting beliefs. Many do not accept Hebrew folklore as
>being literally true or believe in a literal and historic couple named
>Adam and Eve, a flood which covered the entire planet, talking snakes and
>donkeys, not do I believe that Earth is a mere 6000 or 7000 years old.

Then they aren't Christians. Part of being a
Christian, is accepting God's word as absolute truth.



± Pastor Dave Raymond ±

"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16

"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17

/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\


http://christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c036.html



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Pastor Dave
2004-07-13 16:55:07 EST
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Tue, 13 Jul 2004 14:23:30 -0500, Lars Eighner
<*r@io.com> screamed out:

>In our last episode,
><c8d7$40f43498$5006cf5a$12594@nf1.news-service-com>,
>the lovely and talented Xomicron
>broadcast on alt.atheism:
>
>> I am surprised by the amount of hostility some posters display towards the
>> Bible (which they don't appear to have ever studied) and to "religion" as
>> if all religous beliefs had a common source and were therefore equally
>> deserving of denigration.
>
>You don't need to know the Bible to know what it is:

Yes, you do, since if you don't, you are taking the
word of others who quote out of context and then act as
if they done something meaningful. Atheists quoting
other ignorant atheists, does not an intelligent
argument make.



± Pastor Dave Raymond ±

"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16

"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17

/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\


"Preach the gospel at all times.
Use words if necessary."



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