Bible Discussion: Take Up Your Cross And Follow Me

Take Up Your Cross And Follow Me
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Terrell D Lewis
2004-07-02 15:19:14 EST
"Take up your cross and follow me"

The word, "cross" in the New Testament is translated from the Greek,
"stauros." Or a stake, staff, a pole. The common symbol called a
"cross" is actually pagan in origin and predates Christ's time on
earth by thousands of years. Vine's Expository Dictionary of New
Testament Words" will provide a brief explanation as to how a pagan
symbol became a Christian symbol.

The people who heard Jesus say, "Take up your cross and follow me,"
would have heard the words as "Pick up your walking stick and follow
me." A walking stick fits very well with Jesus' description of a
believer's life as a "narrow road" or a "strait gate," and Paul
referred to the religion as "this way." The believer's life is a path
wherein one follows Christ.

This, of course, runs counter to the Amway Plan of Salvation or "Once
Saved Always Saved," which ignores or explains away many scriptures
that tell us a person may walk away from the Faith. Christ won't
force anyone to follow Him. The Amway Plan teaches to say a magical
prayer called "The Sinner's Prayer" and you're set for life. Kind of
like solving all your problems by buying a sales kit.

"The Sinner's Prayer," of course, is nowhere in the Bible. In fact,
with the exception of a few passages in the prophetical books of the
Old Testament, none of scripture is written to non-believers. The
"Roman Road" that is featured in so many religious tracts directed to
non-believers was written to believers as well as the oft-quoted to
non-believers passage, "Behold I stand at the door and knock." Jesus
was speaking of being locked out of the church!

This is reminiscent of the old, bittersweet joke about a man who is
sitting on the steps of a church crying. Jesus comes along and asks,
"Why are you crying?"

Through his sobs the man replies, "They told me my cloths were too old
and ugly and dirty, and they wouldn't let me in the church."

Then Jesus said, "It's OK, son, I've been trying for years and they
won't let me in either."

Terrell D Lewis
http://www.terrelldlewis.com

John Watson
2004-07-02 15:34:58 EST

"Terrell D Lewis" <composer7NOSPAM@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:gddbe096dcm5bs6313ntvhom5p0cpvsfsr@4ax.com...
> "Take up your cross and follow me"
>
> The word, "cross" in the New Testament is translated from the Greek,
> "stauros." Or a stake, staff, a pole. The common symbol called a
> "cross" is actually pagan in origin and predates Christ's time on
> earth by thousands of years. Vine's Expository Dictionary of New
> Testament Words" will provide a brief explanation as to how a pagan
> symbol became a Christian symbol.

Oops, I take it back!

John



Pastor Dave
2004-07-02 17:59:19 EST
On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 19:19:14 GMT, Terrell D Lewis
<*M@sbcglobal.net> posted thusly:

>"Take up your cross and follow me"
>
>The word, "cross" in the New Testament is translated from the Greek,
>"stauros." Or a stake, staff, a pole. The common symbol called a
>"cross" is actually pagan in origin and predates Christ's time on
>earth by thousands of years.

People seem to get confused on this issue. Of course a
cross is pagan. So what? Did you think the Christians
invented crucifixion? Why would anyone think it
started as a Christian symbol? Was it the Christians
who crucified Christ? Of course not. Therefore, you
base your argument on a false premise.

Yes, there was a very large stake. However, that
doesn't mean that the shape of the cross means that one
is being pagan.

The cross was actually two pieces. The persons hands
(wrists) were nailed onto the cross beam. Then the
cross beam was attached to the stake and the whole
thing was lifted up together.

So yes it was originally a stake. It also had a cross
beam that would be attached to it.


>Vine's Expository Dictionary of New
>Testament Words" will provide a brief explanation as to how a pagan
>symbol became a Christian symbol.

It "became a Christian symbol", because Jesus was
crucified on one. That seems pretty simple to me and I
don't know why folks would waste the paper in a
commentary, as if it was some great mystery that
required the greatest Christian minds in the world to
explain it to us poor dumb folk. :)


>The people who heard Jesus say, "Take up your cross and follow me,"
>would have heard the words as "Pick up your walking stick and follow
>me."

Only if they got stuck using a faulty Star Trek
translator. :)

The part of the definition that you forgot, is as
follows...

Cross = stauros (stow-ros') - a stake or post (as set
upright), that is, (specifically) a pole or cross (as
an instrument of capital punishment); figuratively
exposure to death, that is, self denial; by implication
the atonement of Christ: - cross.



± Pastor Dave Raymond ±

"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16

"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17

/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\


"Few paleontologists have, I think ever supposed that
fossils, by themselves, provide grounds for the
conclusion that evolution has occurred. An examination
of the work of those paleontologists who have been
particularly concerned with the relationship between
paleontology and evolutionary theory, for example that
of G. G. Simpson and S. J. Gould, reveals a mindfulness
of the fact that the record of evolution, like any
other historical record, must be construed within a
complex of particular and general preconceptions not
the least of which is the hypothesis that evolution has
occurred. ...The fossil record doesn't even provide any
evidence in support of Darwinian theory except in the
weak sense that the fossil record is compatible with
it, just as it is compatible with other evolutionary
theories, and revolutionary theories and special
creationist theories and even historical theories."
(Kitts, David B., "Search for the Holy Transformation,"
review of Evolution of Living Organisms, by Pierre-P.
Grassé, Paleobiology, vol. 5, 1979, pp. 353-354)



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Dore
2004-07-04 21:40:13 EST
"Terrell D Lewis" <composer7NOSPAM@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:gddbe096dcm5bs6313ntvhom5p0cpvsfsr@4ax.com...
> "Take up your cross and follow me"
>
> The word, "cross" in the New Testament is translated from the Greek,
> "stauros." Or a stake, staff, a pole. The common symbol called a
> "cross" is actually pagan in origin and predates Christ's time on
> earth by thousands of years. Vine's Expository Dictionary of New
> Testament Words" will provide a brief explanation as to how a pagan
> symbol became a Christian symbol.

> The people who heard Jesus say, "Take up your cross and follow me,"
> would have heard the words as "Pick up your walking stick and follow
> me." A walking stick fits very well with Jesus' description of a
> believer's life as a "narrow road" or a "strait gate," and Paul
> referred to the religion as "this way." The believer's life is a path
> wherein one follows Christ.
>

The word "cross" to be taken up, is translated by those with the Holy Spirit
of truth, having the language of God, means symbolically to suffer, endure
and cope with the burdens of being a true disciple of Christ, against the
evil, wicked and ungodly that oppresses, persecutes and abuses them and has
NOTHING to do with a walking stick.

--
Dore

www.dorewilliamson.com



"Terrell D Lewis" <composer7NOSPAM@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:gddbe096dcm5bs6313ntvhom5p0cpvsfsr@4ax.com...
> "Take up your cross and follow me"
>
> The word, "cross" in the New Testament is translated from the Greek,
> "stauros." Or a stake, staff, a pole. The common symbol called a
> "cross" is actually pagan in origin and predates Christ's time on
> earth by thousands of years. Vine's Expository Dictionary of New
> Testament Words" will provide a brief explanation as to how a pagan
> symbol became a Christian symbol.
>
> The people who heard Jesus say, "Take up your cross and follow me,"
> would have heard the words as "Pick up your walking stick and follow
> me." A walking stick fits very well with Jesus' description of a
> believer's life as a "narrow road" or a "strait gate," and Paul
> referred to the religion as "this way." The believer's life is a path
> wherein one follows Christ.
>
> This, of course, runs counter to the Amway Plan of Salvation or "Once
> Saved Always Saved," which ignores or explains away many scriptures
> that tell us a person may walk away from the Faith. Christ won't
> force anyone to follow Him. The Amway Plan teaches to say a magical
> prayer called "The Sinner's Prayer" and you're set for life. Kind of
> like solving all your problems by buying a sales kit.
>
> "The Sinner's Prayer," of course, is nowhere in the Bible. In fact,
> with the exception of a few passages in the prophetical books of the
> Old Testament, none of scripture is written to non-believers. The
> "Roman Road" that is featured in so many religious tracts directed to
> non-believers was written to believers as well as the oft-quoted to
> non-believers passage, "Behold I stand at the door and knock." Jesus
> was speaking of being locked out of the church!
>
> This is reminiscent of the old, bittersweet joke about a man who is
> sitting on the steps of a church crying. Jesus comes along and asks,
> "Why are you crying?"
>
> Through his sobs the man replies, "They told me my cloths were too old
> and ugly and dirty, and they wouldn't let me in the church."
>
> Then Jesus said, "It's OK, son, I've been trying for years and they
> won't let me in either."
>
> Terrell D Lewis
> http://www.terrelldlewis.com



John Watson
2004-07-05 00:32:42 EST

"Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1k2Gc.5263$ne6.4249@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
> "Terrell D Lewis" <composer7NOSPAM@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:gddbe096dcm5bs6313ntvhom5p0cpvsfsr@4ax.com...
>> "Take up your cross and follow me"
>>
>> The word, "cross" in the New Testament is translated from the Greek,
>> "stauros." Or a stake, staff, a pole. The common symbol called a
>> "cross" is actually pagan in origin and predates Christ's time on
>> earth by thousands of years. Vine's Expository Dictionary of New
>> Testament Words" will provide a brief explanation as to how a pagan
>> symbol became a Christian symbol.
>
>> The people who heard Jesus say, "Take up your cross and follow me,"
>> would have heard the words as "Pick up your walking stick and follow
>> me." A walking stick fits very well with Jesus' description of a
>> believer's life as a "narrow road" or a "strait gate," and Paul
>> referred to the religion as "this way." The believer's life is a path
>> wherein one follows Christ.
>>
>
> The word "cross" to be taken up, is translated by those with the Holy
> Spirit
> of truth, having the language of God, means symbolically to suffer, endure
> and cope with the burdens of being a true disciple of Christ, against the
> evil, wicked and ungodly that oppresses, persecutes and abuses them and
> has
> NOTHING to do with a walking stick.

This is true!

John



Terrell D Lewis
2004-07-05 02:18:35 EST
On Mon, 05 Jul 2004 01:40:13 GMT, "Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net>
wrote:

>> "Take up your cross and follow me"
>>
>> The word, "cross" in the New Testament is translated from the Greek,
>> "stauros." Or a stake, staff, a pole. The common symbol called a
>> "cross" is actually pagan in origin and predates Christ's time on
>> earth by thousands of years. Vine's Expository Dictionary of New
>> Testament Words" will provide a brief explanation as to how a pagan
>> symbol became a Christian symbol.
>
>> The people who heard Jesus say, "Take up your cross and follow me,"
>> would have heard the words as "Pick up your walking stick and follow
>> me." A walking stick fits very well with Jesus' description of a
>> believer's life as a "narrow road" or a "strait gate," and Paul
>> referred to the religion as "this way." The believer's life is a path
>> wherein one follows Christ.
>>
>
>The word "cross" to be taken up, is translated by those with the Holy Spirit
>of truth, having the language of God, means symbolically to suffer, endure
>and cope with the burdens of being a true disciple of Christ, against the
>evil, wicked and ungodly that oppresses, persecutes and abuses them and has
>NOTHING to do with a walking stick.

Ah, but it does...for "cross" and "walking stick" are the same word in
the Greek. Since Jesus hadn't as yet revealed his death, the crowd
would have assumed he meant a walking stick.

But, either is applicable and it serves as a double methaphor.


Terrell D Lewis
http://www.terrelldlewis.com
Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful noise unto him with psalms.
Psalms 95:2 KJV

Glenn \Christian Mystic\
2004-07-08 08:49:25 EST

"Dore" <dorewilliamson@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1k2Gc.5263$ne6.4249@nwrdny03.gnilink.net...
> "Terrell D Lewis" <composer7NOSPAM@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:gddbe096dcm5bs6313ntvhom5p0cpvsfsr@4ax.com...

> > "Take up your cross and follow me"
> > The word, "cross" in the New Testament is translated from the Greek,
> > "stauros." Or a stake, staff, a pole. The common symbol called a
> > "cross" is actually pagan in origin and predates Christ's time on
> > earth by thousands of years. Vine's Expository Dictionary of New
> > Testament Words" will provide a brief explanation as to how a pagan
> > symbol became a Christian symbol.
> > The people who heard Jesus say, "Take up your cross and follow me,"
> > would have heard the words as "Pick up your walking stick and follow
> > me." A walking stick fits very well with Jesus' description of a
> > believer's life as a "narrow road" or a "strait gate," and Paul
> > referred to the religion as "this way." The believer's life is a path
> > wherein one follows Christ.
> >
> The word "cross" to be taken up, is translated by those with the Holy
Spirit
> of truth, having the language of God, means symbolically to suffer, endure
> and cope with the burdens of being a true disciple of Christ, against the
> evil, wicked and ungodly that oppresses, persecutes and abuses them and
has
> NOTHING to do with a walking stick.

A *burden* is also a *purpose* / *calling* given to you by the Holy Spirit,
which happens to include both suffering / endurance in dealing with the
oppressions, persecutions, and abuses of they who work against the purpose
given you,
AND
the joys / blessings which go with having served, and continuing to serve
that / those cause(s) given you to handle

And, you are correct it has nothing to do with a literal walking stick, or
EVEN the picking up and carrying a literal cross.

> --
> Dore
> www.dorewilliamson.com

<snipped good stuff>

Glenn (Christian Mystic)



Terrell D Lewis
2004-07-08 14:06:16 EST
On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 07:49:25 -0500, "Glenn \(Christian Mystic\)"
<*c@ev1.net> wrote:

>And, you are correct it has nothing to do with a literal walking stick, or
>EVEN the picking up and carrying a literal cross.

True, in both instances, "pick up your stauros and follow me," is a
euphemism for walking the CHristian path ("This Way", as Paul called
it, or "the narrow road," as Jesus called it) and everything
associated with that "walk."


Terrell

Pastor Dave
2004-07-08 14:11:12 EST
On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 18:06:16 GMT, Terrell D Lewis
<*M@sbcglobal.net> posted thusly:

>On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 07:49:25 -0500, "Glenn \(Christian Mystic\)"
><christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote:
>
>>And, you are correct it has nothing to do with a literal walking stick, or
>>EVEN the picking up and carrying a literal cross.
>
>True, in both instances, "pick up your stauros and follow me," is a
>euphemism for walking the CHristian path ("This Way", as Paul called
>it, or "the narrow road," as Jesus called it) and everything
>associated with that "walk."

And yet, Christ was crucified and there were Apostles
who were as well (at least as far as tradition has it).



± Pastor Dave Raymond ±

"As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor
to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day;
thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right
before thee." - Jeremiah 17:16

"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17

/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\


"If life had evolved into its wondrous profusion of
creatures little by little, Dr. Eldredge argues, then
one would expect to find fossils of transitional
creatures which were a bit like what went before them
and a bit like what came after. But no one has yet
found any evidence of such transitional creatures.
This oddity has been attributed to gaps in the fossil
record which gradualists expected to fill when rock
strata of the proper age had been found. In the last
decade, however, geologists have found rock layers of
all divisions of the last 500 million years and no
transitional forms were contained in them." (The
Guardian Weekly, 26 Nov 1978, vol 119, no 22, p. 1)



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Terrell D Lewis
2004-07-08 16:04:02 EST
On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 14:11:12 -0400, Pastor Dave
<nospam*-*pastordave38@yahoo.com> wrote:

>>True, in both instances, "pick up your stauros and follow me," is a
>>euphemism for walking the CHristian path ("This Way", as Paul called
>>it, or "the narrow road," as Jesus called it) and everything
>>associated with that "walk."
>
>And yet, Christ was crucified and there were Apostles
>who were as well (at least as far as tradition has it).

Re-read this part:

everything
>associated with that "walk."

That would include the good, the bad, the persecution and the joy.


Terrell
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