Bible Discussion: CYRUS, THE MESSIAH OF YHWH

CYRUS, THE MESSIAH OF YHWH
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Libertarius
2004-07-02 12:20:22 EST
COMPARE PSALM 2 and ISAIAH 45
to see:

Psalms 2:2,7-9
"The kings of the earth take a stand,
And the rulers take counsel together,
Against Yahweh, and against his anointed,
"I will tell of the decree.
Yahweh said to me,
"You are my son. Today I have become your father"
Ask of me, and I will give the nations for your inheritance,
The uttermost parts of the earth for your possession.
You shall break them with a rod of iron.
You shall dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel."

COMPARE Isaiah 45:1-3

"Thus says Yahweh to his anointed,
to Cyrus, whose right hand I have held,
to subdue nations before him,
and I will loose the loins of kings;
to open the doors before him, and the gates shall not be shut:
I will go before you, and make the rough places smooth;
I will break in pieces the doors of brass,
and cut in sunder the bars of iron;
and I will give you the treasures of darkness,
and hidden riches of secret places, that you may know that it is I,
Yahweh, who call you by your name, even the God of Israel."

Libertarius
=============


Patty
2004-07-02 13:50:02 EST
Hi Libertarius,

Even more interesting is that Cyrus was a Gentile! There was an interesting
article on him in Bible Review.

Patty

"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:40E58B46.E6ACA97E@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
> COMPARE PSALM 2 and ISAIAH 45
> to see:
>
> Psalms 2:2,7-9
> "The kings of the earth take a stand,
> And the rulers take counsel together,
> Against Yahweh, and against his anointed,
> "I will tell of the decree.
> Yahweh said to me,
> "You are my son. Today I have become your father"
> Ask of me, and I will give the nations for your inheritance,
> The uttermost parts of the earth for your possession.
> You shall break them with a rod of iron.
> You shall dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel."
>
> COMPARE Isaiah 45:1-3
>
> "Thus says Yahweh to his anointed,
> to Cyrus, whose right hand I have held,
> to subdue nations before him,
> and I will loose the loins of kings;
> to open the doors before him, and the gates shall not be shut:
> I will go before you, and make the rough places smooth;
> I will break in pieces the doors of brass,
> and cut in sunder the bars of iron;
> and I will give you the treasures of darkness,
> and hidden riches of secret places, that you may know that it is I,
> Yahweh, who call you by your name, even the God of Israel."
>
> Libertarius
> =============
>



U2 Fan
2004-07-02 18:32:03 EST
The two passages are totally unrelated

The first parallels to Rev 19
The second parallels Ezra 1

Cyrus is a good guy

"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:40E58B46.E6ACA97E@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
> COMPARE PSALM 2 and ISAIAH 45
> to see:
>
> Psalms 2:2,7-9
> "The kings of the earth take a stand,
> And the rulers take counsel together,
> Against Yahweh, and against his anointed,
> "I will tell of the decree.
> Yahweh said to me,
> "You are my son. Today I have become your father"
> Ask of me, and I will give the nations for your inheritance,
> The uttermost parts of the earth for your possession.
> You shall break them with a rod of iron.
> You shall dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel."
>
> COMPARE Isaiah 45:1-3
>
> "Thus says Yahweh to his anointed,
> to Cyrus, whose right hand I have held,
> to subdue nations before him,
> and I will loose the loins of kings;
> to open the doors before him, and the gates shall not be shut:
> I will go before you, and make the rough places smooth;
> I will break in pieces the doors of brass,
> and cut in sunder the bars of iron;
> and I will give you the treasures of darkness,
> and hidden riches of secret places, that you may know that it is I,
> Yahweh, who call you by your name, even the God of Israel."
>
> Libertarius
> =============
>



Libertarius
2004-07-02 19:55:16 EST


Patty wrote:

> Hi Libertarius,
>
> Even more interesting is that Cyrus was a Gentile! There was an interesting
> article on him in Bible Review.
>
> Patty

===>Yes, indeed.
But AHURA MAZDA (a.k.a. YHWH) was considered quite a universal
deity.
Obviously, the idea that the "Messiah" had to come form the "house of David"
was a later invention. -- L.

>
>
> "Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
> news:40E58B46.E6ACA97E@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
> > COMPARE PSALM 2 and ISAIAH 45
> > to see:
> >
> > Psalms 2:2,7-9
> > "The kings of the earth take a stand,
> > And the rulers take counsel together,
> > Against Yahweh, and against his anointed,
> > "I will tell of the decree.
> > Yahweh said to me,
> > "You are my son. Today I have become your father"
> > Ask of me, and I will give the nations for your inheritance,
> > The uttermost parts of the earth for your possession.
> > You shall break them with a rod of iron.
> > You shall dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel."
> >
> > COMPARE Isaiah 45:1-3
> >
> > "Thus says Yahweh to his anointed,
> > to Cyrus, whose right hand I have held,
> > to subdue nations before him,
> > and I will loose the loins of kings;
> > to open the doors before him, and the gates shall not be shut:
> > I will go before you, and make the rough places smooth;
> > I will break in pieces the doors of brass,
> > and cut in sunder the bars of iron;
> > and I will give you the treasures of darkness,
> > and hidden riches of secret places, that you may know that it is I,
> > Yahweh, who call you by your name, even the God of Israel."
> >
> > Libertarius
> > =============
> >


Libertarius
2004-07-02 20:06:54 EST


u2 fan wrote:

> The two passages are totally unrelated
>
> The first parallels to Rev 19

===>Rev 19???
That was written hundreds of years later in a totally different
cultural and historical context.
Absolutely no connection, except the use of the Persian title
"King of kings".
You obviously did not read and did not compare the Psalm
and the Isaiah passages.

> The second parallels Ezra 1

===>Now THAT is correct.
It reinforces my point.
BOTH Ezra AND Deutero-Isaiah view Cyrus as
the "anointed of YHWH".
The only historical character that fits Psalm 2 is KING CYRUS!

> Cyrus is a good guy

===>And a good goy, too! ;-) -- L.

>
>
> "Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
> news:40E58B46.E6ACA97E@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
> > COMPARE PSALM 2 and ISAIAH 45
> > to see:
> >
> > Psalms 2:2,7-9
> > "The kings of the earth take a stand,
> > And the rulers take counsel together,
> > Against Yahweh, and against his anointed,
> > "I will tell of the decree.
> > Yahweh said to me,
> > "You are my son. Today I have become your father"
> > Ask of me, and I will give the nations for your inheritance,
> > The uttermost parts of the earth for your possession.
> > You shall break them with a rod of iron.
> > You shall dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel."
> >
> > COMPARE Isaiah 45:1-3
> >
> > "Thus says Yahweh to his anointed,
> > to Cyrus, whose right hand I have held,
> > to subdue nations before him,
> > and I will loose the loins of kings;
> > to open the doors before him, and the gates shall not be shut:
> > I will go before you, and make the rough places smooth;
> > I will break in pieces the doors of brass,
> > and cut in sunder the bars of iron;
> > and I will give you the treasures of darkness,
> > and hidden riches of secret places, that you may know that it is I,
> > Yahweh, who call you by your name, even the God of Israel."
> >
> > Libertarius
> > =============
> >


U2 Fan
2004-07-03 04:11:07 EST
Oh yes I did !

You speak from a historians perspective, I speak from a spiritual lesson
perspective, in your historians eyes your are right, but that doesn't mean
it's the only link

"Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
news:40E5F89E.55CD707D@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
>
>
> u2 fan wrote:
>
> > The two passages are totally unrelated
> >
> > The first parallels to Rev 19
>
> ===>Rev 19???
> That was written hundreds of years later in a totally different
> cultural and historical context.
> Absolutely no connection, except the use of the Persian title
> "King of kings".
> You obviously did not read and did not compare the Psalm
> and the Isaiah passages.
>
> > The second parallels Ezra 1
>
> ===>Now THAT is correct.
> It reinforces my point.
> BOTH Ezra AND Deutero-Isaiah view Cyrus as
> the "anointed of YHWH".
> The only historical character that fits Psalm 2 is KING CYRUS!
>
> > Cyrus is a good guy
>
> ===>And a good goy, too! ;-) -- L.
>
> >
> >
> > "Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
> > news:40E58B46.E6ACA97E@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
> > > COMPARE PSALM 2 and ISAIAH 45
> > > to see:
> > >
> > > Psalms 2:2,7-9
> > > "The kings of the earth take a stand,
> > > And the rulers take counsel together,
> > > Against Yahweh, and against his anointed,
> > > "I will tell of the decree.
> > > Yahweh said to me,
> > > "You are my son. Today I have become your father"
> > > Ask of me, and I will give the nations for your inheritance,
> > > The uttermost parts of the earth for your possession.
> > > You shall break them with a rod of iron.
> > > You shall dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel."
> > >
> > > COMPARE Isaiah 45:1-3
> > >
> > > "Thus says Yahweh to his anointed,
> > > to Cyrus, whose right hand I have held,
> > > to subdue nations before him,
> > > and I will loose the loins of kings;
> > > to open the doors before him, and the gates shall not be shut:
> > > I will go before you, and make the rough places smooth;
> > > I will break in pieces the doors of brass,
> > > and cut in sunder the bars of iron;
> > > and I will give you the treasures of darkness,
> > > and hidden riches of secret places, that you may know that it is I,
> > > Yahweh, who call you by your name, even the God of Israel."
> > >
> > > Libertarius
> > > =============
> > >
>



Libertarius
2004-07-03 16:10:19 EST


u2 fan wrote:

> Oh yes I did !
>
> You speak from a historians perspective, I speak from a spiritual lesson
> perspective, in your historians eyes your are right,

===>THANK YOU!

> but that doesn't mean
> it's the only link

===>The only REALISTIC link.
Of course you can link anything to anything and call it "spiritual".
Examine the "New Testament" and any of the hundreds of Christian
denominations (loosely) based on it. ;-) -- L.

>
>
> "Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
> news:40E5F89E.55CD707D@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
> >
> >
> > u2 fan wrote:
> >
> > > The two passages are totally unrelated
> > >
> > > The first parallels to Rev 19
> >
> > ===>Rev 19???
> > That was written hundreds of years later in a totally different
> > cultural and historical context.
> > Absolutely no connection, except the use of the Persian title
> > "King of kings".
> > You obviously did not read and did not compare the Psalm
> > and the Isaiah passages.
> >
> > > The second parallels Ezra 1
> >
> > ===>Now THAT is correct.
> > It reinforces my point.
> > BOTH Ezra AND Deutero-Isaiah view Cyrus as
> > the "anointed of YHWH".
> > The only historical character that fits Psalm 2 is KING CYRUS!
> >
> > > Cyrus is a good guy
> >
> > ===>And a good goy, too! ;-) -- L.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Libertarius" <Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote in message
> > > news:40E58B46.E6ACA97E@Nothing_But_The.Truth...
> > > > COMPARE PSALM 2 and ISAIAH 45
> > > > to see:
> > > >
> > > > Psalms 2:2,7-9
> > > > "The kings of the earth take a stand,
> > > > And the rulers take counsel together,
> > > > Against Yahweh, and against his anointed,
> > > > "I will tell of the decree.
> > > > Yahweh said to me,
> > > > "You are my son. Today I have become your father"
> > > > Ask of me, and I will give the nations for your inheritance,
> > > > The uttermost parts of the earth for your possession.
> > > > You shall break them with a rod of iron.
> > > > You shall dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel."
> > > >
> > > > COMPARE Isaiah 45:1-3
> > > >
> > > > "Thus says Yahweh to his anointed,
> > > > to Cyrus, whose right hand I have held,
> > > > to subdue nations before him,
> > > > and I will loose the loins of kings;
> > > > to open the doors before him, and the gates shall not be shut:
> > > > I will go before you, and make the rough places smooth;
> > > > I will break in pieces the doors of brass,
> > > > and cut in sunder the bars of iron;
> > > > and I will give you the treasures of darkness,
> > > > and hidden riches of secret places, that you may know that it is I,
> > > > Yahweh, who call you by your name, even the God of Israel."
> > > >
> > > > Libertarius
> > > > =============
> > > >
> >

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