Bible Discussion: The Flood And The God-Man Gilgamesh

The Flood And The God-Man Gilgamesh
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*@[127.1]
2004-06-04 18:55:02 EST



Going back in history possibly some 4,000 years, we\ufffdencounter the famous Akkadian myth called the Epic\ufffdof Gilgamesh. Our knowledge of this is based\ufffdmainly\ufffdon a cuneiform text that came from the library\ufffdof Ashurbanipal, who reigned 668-627\ufffdB.C.E., in ancient Nineveh.

It is the story of the exploits of Gilgamesh, described as being two-thirds god and one-third man, or a demigod. One version of the epic states: \ufffdIn Uruk he built walls, a great rampart, and the temple of blessed Eanna for the god of the firmament Anu, and for Ishtar the goddess of love .\ufffd.\ufffd.\ufffd, our lady of love and war.\ufffd However, Gilgamesh was not exactly a pleasant creature to have around. The inhabitants of Uruk complained to the gods: \ufffdHis lust leaves no virgin to her lover, neither the warrior\ufffds daughter nor the wife of the noble.\ufffd

What action did the gods take in response to the people\ufffds protest? The goddess Aruru created Enkidu to be the human rival of Gilgamesh. However, instead of being enemies, they became close friends. In the course of the epic, Enkidu died. Shattered, Gilgamesh cried: \ufffdWhen I die, shall I not be like Enkidu? Woe has entered my belly. Fearing death, I roam over the steppe.\ufffd He wanted the secret of immortality and set out to find Utnapishtim, the deluge survivor who had been given immortality with the gods.

Gilgamesh eventually finds Utnapishtim, who tells him the story of the flood. As found in Epic tablet\ufffdXI, known as the Flood Tablet, Utnapishtim recounts instructions given to him concerning the flood: \ufffdTear down (this) house, build a ship! Give up possessions, seek thou life. .\ufffd.\ufffd. Aboard the ship take thou the seed of all living things.\ufffd Does this not sound somewhat similar to the Bible\ufffds reference to Noah and the Flood? But Utnapishtim cannot bestow immortality upon Gilgamesh. Gilgamesh, disappointed, returns home to Uruk. The account concludes with his death. The overall message of the epic is the sadness and frustration of death and the hereafter. Those ancient people did not find the God of truth and hope. However, the epic\ufffds link to the Bible\ufffds simple account of the pre-Flood era is quite evident.

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YOELK
2004-06-05 00:45:55 EST
It is interesting to note that echoes from ancient myths about
demigods
are found also in the bible where it is spoken of the "sons of
heaven"
(in hebrew - the children of god) who come down to earth and took for
themselves human wives. These women gave birth to the demigods known
in their physical size and strength and their courage (Genesis 6),
matching the character of Gilgamesh.

-----
YOELK

<Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]> wrote in message news:<20040604.155517.5705.34442@webmail22.nyc.untd.com>...
> Going back in history possibly some 4,000 years, we encounter the famous Akkadian myth called the Epic of Gilgamesh. Our knowledge of this is based mainly on a cuneiform text that came from the library of Ashurbanipal, who reigned 668-627 B.C.E., in ancient Nineveh.
>
> It is the story of the exploits of Gilgamesh, described as being
two-thirds god and one-third man, or a demigod. One version of the
epic states: ?In Uruk he built walls, a great rampart, and the temple
of blessed Eanna for the god of the firmament Anu, and for Ishtar the
goddess of love . . . , our lady of love and war.? However, Gilgamesh
was not exactly a pleasant creature to have around. The inhabitants of
Uruk complained to the gods: ?His lust leaves no virgin to her lover,
neither the warrior?s daughter nor the wife of the noble.?
>
> What action did the gods take in response to the people?s protest?
The goddess Aruru created Enkidu to be the human rival of Gilgamesh.
However, instead of being enemies, they became close friends. In the
course of the epic, Enkidu died. Shattered, Gilgamesh cried: ?When I
die, shall I not be like Enkidu? Woe has entered my belly. Fearing
death, I roam over the steppe.? He wanted the secret of immortality
and set out to find Utnapishtim, the deluge survivor who had been
given immortality with the gods.
>
> Gilgamesh eventually finds Utnapishtim, who tells him the story of
the flood. As found in Epic tablet XI, known as the Flood Tablet,
Utnapishtim recounts instructions given to him concerning the flood:
?Tear down (this) house, build a ship! Give up possessions, seek thou
life. . . . Aboard the ship take thou the seed of all living things.?
Does this not sound somewhat similar to the Bible?s reference to Noah
and the Flood? But Utnapishtim cannot bestow immortality upon
Gilgamesh. Gilgamesh, disappointed, returns home to Uruk. The account
concludes with his death. The overall message of the epic is the
sadness and frustration of death and the hereafter. Those ancient
people did not find the God of truth and hope. However, the epic?s
link to the Bible?s simple account of the pre-Flood era is quite
evident.
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
> Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

J*@hotmail.com
2004-06-05 09:07:51 EST
j*p@shani.net (YOELK) wrote in message news:<28891102.0406042045.52e15b1a@posting.google.com>...
> It is interesting to note that echoes from ancient myths about
> demigods
> are found also in the bible where it is spoken of the "sons of
> heaven"
> (in hebrew - the children of god) who come down to earth and took for
> themselves human wives. These women gave birth to the demigods known
> in their physical size and strength and their courage (Genesis 6),
> matching the character of Gilgamesh.
>
> -----
> YOELK
>

well if you read some of these threads, some belives that the flood,
was a local event to every human tribe. Including the Inuit and the
Hopi.

most myth talk about Demi-gods around the flood. The skeptics are
going to say these are stories of good swimmers.

Daniel
2004-06-06 08:46:29 EST
YOELK wrote:
> It is interesting to note that echoes from ancient myths about
> demigods
> are found also in the bible where it is spoken of the "sons of
> heaven"
> (in hebrew - the children of god) who come down to earth and took for
> themselves human wives. These women gave birth to the demigods known
> in their physical size and strength and their courage (Genesis 6),
> matching the character of Gilgamesh.
>
> -----
> YOELK
>

Except for one problem, Yoelk. The bible had the flood kill of the
demi-gods, while in Gilgamesh lived in the time after the flood, not before.

Eric Gill
2004-06-06 12:25:30 EST
Daniel <phobus@hotmail.com> wrote in news:40c31228$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au:

> YOELK wrote:
>> It is interesting to note that echoes from ancient myths about
>> demigods
>> are found also in the bible where it is spoken of the "sons of
>> heaven"
>> (in hebrew - the children of god) who come down to earth and took for
>> themselves human wives. These women gave birth to the demigods known
>> in their physical size and strength and their courage (Genesis 6),
>> matching the character of Gilgamesh.
>>
>> -----
>> YOELK
>>
>
> Except for one problem, Yoelk. The bible had the flood kill of the
> demi-gods, while in Gilgamesh lived in the time after the flood, not
> before.

And Noah had a different name, and used different birds. Details have a
habit of changing even when legends are assimilated wholesale.

JTEM
2004-06-06 14:00:49 EST

"Eric Gill" <ericvgill@yahoo.com> wrote

> Daniel <phobus@hotmail.com> wrote
> > Except for one problem, Yoelk. The bible had the flood kill of
> > the demi-gods, while in Gilgamesh lived in the time after the
> > flood, not before.

> And Noah had a different name, and used different birds. Details
> have a habit of changing even when legends are assimilated
> wholesale.

In the case of Noah & flood, the story is at least twice removed from
its source.

It entered Canaan via Ugarit, where it is found recorded in
proto-Semitic texts centuries before any "Babylonian" conquest
of the region. From there it traveled south where it was finally
incorporated into the myths of a people without a Canaanite identity.









YOELK
2004-06-06 14:44:56 EST
Daniel <phobus@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<40c31228$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>...
> YOELK wrote:
> > It is interesting to note that echoes from ancient myths about
> > demigods
> > are found also in the bible where it is spoken of the "sons of
> > heaven"
> > (in hebrew - the children of god) who come down to earth and took for
> > themselves human wives. These women gave birth to the demigods known
> > in their physical size and strength and their courage (Genesis 6),
> > matching the character of Gilgamesh.
> >
> > -----
> > YOELK
> >
>
> Except for one problem, Yoelk. The bible had the flood kill of the
> demi-gods, while in Gilgamesh lived in the time after the flood, not before.

This is in contradiction to the bible itself which tells us about King Og,
who was one of the Nephilim (giants) who outlived the flood
and was only killed by the army of Joshua. You can read about that in Deutronomy 3.

Also you can read about the story of spies who were sent to Canaan
ans met the 3 sons of Nephilim lived there - Numbers 13.


-----
YOELK

Budikka
2004-06-06 20:58:28 EST
Still waiting on you actually coming up with an answer to these
questions. Of course, you can run away like a little boy yet again,
but your cowardice won't make the unswered questions go away:

1. A car is organic (molecular structure based in carbon).
True or false?

2. Not counting living things, the universe is, in part, organic.
True or false?

3. This universe is the only example of a universe that we know of for
sure. True/false?

4. We know for a fact that humans create cars, as can been seen from a
tour of any auto manufacturing plant.
True or false?

5. We have no known-for-a-fact examples of gods creating universes.
True or false?

6. If we know humans create cars, but we do not know that gods create
universes, trying to pretend that finding a car abandoned in the
desert leaves one in the same position, vis-a-vis its origins, as we
are in trying to understand the universe is an irredeemably braindead
proposition.
True or false?

7. In a thread started in alt.religion.jehovahs-witn on Sept 21,2003
you stated: "On the other hand, if the Genesis creation account is
factual, then the fossil record would not show one type of life
turning into another. It would reflect the Genesis statement that
each different type of living thing would reproduce only "according to
its kind." (Genesis 1:11, 12, 21, 24, 25) Also, if living things came
into being by an act of creation, there would be no partial,
unfinished bones or organs in the fossil record. All fossils would be
complete and highly complex, as living things are today."
(http://tinyurl.com/u62b)

That thread was titled "TOBS: The Fossil record support's Genesis".
Posting such an article and/or believing we were created rather than
evolved is an open admission that you are in fact, a creationist.
True or false?

8. Regardless of what it is classed as and regardless of whether it
was or was not in the evolutionary line to birds, the archaeopteryx
had pretty much a fifty-fifty mix of reptile/dino and bird features
and therefore represents an example of a potential intermediate stage.
True or false?

9. The okapi, an animal alive and well today, is pretty much what a
transitional giraffe could have looked like.
True or false?

10. http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transitional.html summarises
discoveries pertaining to transitional fossils and contains over 70
references, many of which are to papers published in peer-reviewed
science journals.
True or false?

11. Something akin to a mouse could reasonably change 300 genes over
60 million years to become either human or a modern mouse.
True or false?

12. It is possible to clearly and scientifically define the Biblical
"kind" as used in the Noah's ark story in Genesis.
True or false?

13. There is a mechanism in genetics or biochemistry which prevents
one "kind" of organism varying into another "kind".
True or false?

14. Evolutionists hold that modern amphibians evolved from modern
fish.
True or false?

15. Evolutionists hold that modern reptiles evolved from modern
amphibians.
True or false?

16. Evolutionists hold that modern birds evolved from modern
reptiles.
True or false?

17. Evolutionists hold that modern mammals evolved from modern
reptiles.
True or false?

18. Creationist letters published as a joke in a science publication
are of the same standing as peer-reviewed papers published in
recognized science journals.
True or false?

19. There has been at least one peer-reviewed science paper published
in a recognized, refereed science journal that calls the Theory of
Evolution into serious question.
True or false?

20. There has been at least one peer-reviewed science paper published
in a recognized, refereed science journal that establishes a better
theory to explain the distribution and variety of life on Earth today
than the Theory of Evolution.
True or false?

21. There has been posted, in one place in a thread somewhere in
these news groups, a supported and referenced *list* of the colossal
holes in the Theory of Evolution.
True or false?

22. It is hypocritical to demand peer-reviewed published evidence
from others in refutation of non-existent material favoring your own
arguments.
True or false?

23. References to long-dead dead topics such as "Piltdown man",
Nebraska "man", and Ramapithecus as a human ancestor are irrelevant to
the current state of the Theory of Evolution because no one but
creationists ever makes an issue of them any more.
True or false?

24. Certain creationists-in-denial will snip or ignore this entire
post because they cannot even handle a series of simple true/false
questions without realizing what a shithead they are.
True or false?

The last question is a little more difficult. It's multiple choice.

25. The match between human DNA and banana DNA is:
A. 95%
B. 75%
C. 60%
D. Greater than 50%
E. 50%

Please *support* your answer with at least one competent and
intelligent reference that does not refer to a non-existent article in
_New Scientist_, is not a throw-away quotation, and is not merely a
headline from an article that has nothing otherwise to do with the
topic.

Budikka

J*@hotmail.com
2004-06-07 07:13:45 EST
j*p@shani.net (YOELK) wrote in message news:<28891102.0406061044.28fdc772@posting.google.com>...
> Daniel <phobus@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<40c31228$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>...
> > YOELK wrote:
> > > It is interesting to note that echoes from ancient myths about
> > > demigods
> > > are found also in the bible where it is spoken of the "sons of
> > > heaven"
> > > (in hebrew - the children of god) who come down to earth and took for
> > > themselves human wives. These women gave birth to the demigods known
> > > in their physical size and strength and their courage (Genesis 6),
> > > matching the character of Gilgamesh.
> > >
> > > -----
> > > YOELK
> > >
> >
> > Except for one problem, Yoelk. The bible had the flood kill of the
> > demi-gods, while in Gilgamesh lived in the time after the flood, not before.
>
> This is in contradiction to the bible itself which tells us about King Og,
> who was one of the Nephilim (giants) who outlived the flood
> and was only killed by the army of Joshua. You can read about that in Deutronomy 3.
>


Nephilim means Giants..

The israelites were using an exagerations about these people.

YOELK
2004-06-07 14:06:08 EST
j*l@hotmail.com wrote in message news:<e4bcbc36.0406070313.40aad924@posting.google.com>...
> jkrup@shani.net (YOELK) wrote in message news:<28891102.0406061044.28fdc772@posting.google.com>...
> > Daniel <phobus@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<40c31228$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>...
> > > YOELK wrote:
> > > > It is interesting to note that echoes from ancient myths about
> > > > demigods
> > > > are found also in the bible where it is spoken of the "sons of
> > > > heaven"
> > > > (in hebrew - the children of god) who come down to earth and took for
> > > > themselves human wives. These women gave birth to the demigods known
> > > > in their physical size and strength and their courage (Genesis 6),
> > > > matching the character of Gilgamesh.
> > > >
> > > > -----
> > > > YOELK
> > > >
> > >
> > > Except for one problem, Yoelk. The bible had the flood kill of the
> > > demi-gods, while in Gilgamesh lived in the time after the flood, not before.
> >
> > This is in contradiction to the bible itself which tells us about King Og,
> > who was one of the Nephilim (giants) who outlived the flood
> > and was only killed by the army of Joshua. You can read about that in Deutronomy 3.
> >
>
>
> Nephilim means Giants..
>
> The israelites were using an exagerations about these people.

And maybe there was also exageration regarding the flood as well?
You know, it is hard to stop here, once you start to doubt the accuracy
of the bible ...
-----
YOELK
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