Vegetarian Discussion: No ORGANIC Bee Losses

No ORGANIC Bee Losses
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Tim Campbell
2007-05-10 11:46:24 EST
"Sharon Labchuk is a longtime environmental activist and part-time
organic beekeeper from Prince Edward Island. She has twice run for a
seat in Ottawa's House of Commons, making strong showings around 5%
for Canada's fledgling Green Party. She is also leader of the
provincial wing of her party. In a widely circulated email, she
wrote:

I'm on an organic beekeeping list of about 1,000 people, mostly
Americans, and no one in the organic beekeeping world, including
commercial beekeepers, is reporting colony collapse on this list.
The problem with the big commercial guys is that they put pesticides
in their hives to fumigate for varroa mites, and they feed
antibiotics to the bees. They also haul the hives by truck all over
the place to make more money with pollination services, which
stresses the colonies.

Her email recommends a visit to the Bush Bees Web site at Here,
Michael Bush felt compelled to put a message to the beekeeping world
right on the top page:

Most of us beekeepers are fighting with the Varroa mites. I'm happy
to say my biggest problems are things like trying to get nucs
through the winter and coming up with hives that won't hurt my back
from lifting or better ways to feed the bees.

This change from fighting the mites is mostly because I've gone to
natural sized cells. In case you weren't aware, and I wasn't for a
long time, the foundation in common usage results in much larger
bees than what you would find in a natural hive. I've measured
sections of natural worker brood comb that are 4.6mm in diameter.
What most people use for worker brood is foundation that is 5.4mm in
diameter. If you translate that into three dimensions instead of
one, it produces a bee that is about half as large again as is
natural. By letting the bees build natural sized cells, I have
virtually eliminated my Varroa and Tracheal mite problems. One cause
of this is shorter capping times by one day, and shorter post-
capping times by one day. This means less Varroa get into the cells,
and less Varroa reproduce in the cells.

Who should be surprised that the major media reports forget to tell
us that the dying bees are actually hyper-bred varieties that we
coax into a larger than normal body size? It sounds just like the
beef industry. And, have we here a solution to the vanishing bee
problem? Is it one that the CCD Working Group, or indeed, the
scientific world at large, will support? Will media coverage affect
government action in dealing with this issue?

These are important questions to ask. It is not an uncommonly held
opinion that, although this new pattern of bee colony collapse seems
to have struck from out of the blue (which suggests a triggering
agent), it is likely that some biological limit in the bees has been
crossed. There is no shortage of evidence that we have been fast
approaching this limit for some time.

We've been pushing them too hard, Dr. Peter Kevan, an associate
professor of environmental biology at the University of Guelph in
Ontario, told the CBC. And we're starving them out by feeding them
artificially and moving them great distances. Given the stress
commercial bees are under, Kevan suggests CCD might be caused by
parasitic mites, or long cold winters, or long wet springs, or
pesticides, or genetically modified crops. Maybe it's all of the
above..."

I am quite involved with many alternative agriculture
groups, and I received this email from a trusted
friend...you might want to check it out for your news
section...
Received from Lancifer | redicecreations.com
http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=974
No ORGANIC Bee losses
2007 05 06


Day Brown
2007-05-10 17:18:01 EST
On May 10, 10:46 am, Tim Campbell <timc...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> "Sharon Labchuk is a longtime environmental activist and part-time
> organic beekeeper from Prince Edward Island. She has twice run for a
> seat in Ottawa's House of Commons, making strong showings around 5%
> for Canada's fledgling Green Party. She is also leader of the
> provincial wing of her party. In a widely circulated email, she
> wrote:
>
> I'm on an organic beekeeping list of about 1,000 people, mostly
> Americans, and no one in the organic beekeeping world, including
> commercial beekeepers, is reporting colony collapse on this list.
> The problem with the big commercial guys is that they put pesticides
> in their hives to fumigate for varroa mites, and they feed
> antibiotics to the bees. They also haul the hives by truck all over
> the place to make more money with pollination services, which
> stresses the colonies.
>
> Her email recommends a visit to the Bush Bees Web site at Here,
> Michael Bush felt compelled to put a message to the beekeeping world
> right on the top page:
>
> Most of us beekeepers are fighting with the Varroa mites. I'm happy
> to say my biggest problems are things like trying to get nucs
> through the winter and coming up with hives that won't hurt my back
> from lifting or better ways to feed the bees.
>
> This change from fighting the mites is mostly because I've gone to
> natural sized cells. In case you weren't aware, and I wasn't for a
> long time, the foundation in common usage results in much larger
> bees than what you would find in a natural hive. I've measured
> sections of natural worker brood comb that are 4.6mm in diameter.
> What most people use for worker brood is foundation that is 5.4mm in
> diameter. If you translate that into three dimensions instead of
> one, it produces a bee that is about half as large again as is
> natural. By letting the bees build natural sized cells, I have
> virtually eliminated my Varroa and Tracheal mite problems. One cause
> of this is shorter capping times by one day, and shorter post-
> capping times by one day. This means less Varroa get into the cells,
> and less Varroa reproduce in the cells.
>
> Who should be surprised that the major media reports forget to tell
> us that the dying bees are actually hyper-bred varieties that we
> coax into a larger than normal body size? It sounds just like the
> beef industry. And, have we here a solution to the vanishing bee
> problem? Is it one that the CCD Working Group, or indeed, the
> scientific world at large, will support? Will media coverage affect
> government action in dealing with this issue?
>
> These are important questions to ask. It is not an uncommonly held
> opinion that, although this new pattern of bee colony collapse seems
> to have struck from out of the blue (which suggests a triggering
> agent), it is likely that some biological limit in the bees has been
> crossed. There is no shortage of evidence that we have been fast
> approaching this limit for some time.
>
> We've been pushing them too hard, Dr. Peter Kevan, an associate
> professor of environmental biology at the University of Guelph in
> Ontario, told the CBC. And we're starving them out by feeding them
> artificially and moving them great distances. Given the stress
> commercial bees are under, Kevan suggests CCD might be caused by
> parasitic mites, or long cold winters, or long wet springs, or
> pesticides, or genetically modified crops. Maybe it's all of the
> above..."
>
> I am quite involved with many alternative agriculture
> groups, and I received this email from a trusted
> friend...you might want to check it out for your news
> section...
> Received from Lancifer | redicecreations.comhttp://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=974
> No ORGANIC Bee losses
> 2007 05 06
I saw wild honey bees in my garden an hour ago. But then, I'm at the
very end of the grid back in the Ozarks in a clean environment.


J*@gmail.com
2007-05-10 17:39:25 EST
On 10 maio, 12:46, Tim Campbell <timc...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> "Sharon Labchuk is a longtime environmental activist and part-time
> organic beekeeper from Prince Edward Island. She has twice run for a
> seat in Ottawa's House of Commons, making strong showings around 5%
> for Canada's fledgling Green Party. She is also leader of the
> provincial wing of her party. In a widely circulated email, she
> wrote:
>
> I'm on an organic beekeeping list of about 1,000 people, mostly
> Americans, and no one in the organic beekeeping world, including
> commercial beekeepers, is reporting colony collapse on this list.
> The problem with the big commercial guys is that they put pesticides
> in their hives to fumigate for varroa mites, and they feed
> antibiotics to the bees. They also haul the hives by truck all over
> the place to make more money with pollination services, which
> stresses the colonies.
>
> Her email recommends a visit to the Bush Bees Web site at Here,
> Michael Bush felt compelled to put a message to the beekeeping world
> right on the top page:
>
> Most of us beekeepers are fighting with the Varroa mites. I'm happy
> to say my biggest problems are things like trying to get nucs
> through the winter and coming up with hives that won't hurt my back
> from lifting or better ways to feed the bees.
>
> This change from fighting the mites is mostly because I've gone to
> natural sized cells. In case you weren't aware, and I wasn't for a
> long time, the foundation in common usage results in much larger
> bees than what you would find in a natural hive. I've measured
> sections of natural worker brood comb that are 4.6mm in diameter.
> What most people use for worker brood is foundation that is 5.4mm in
> diameter. If you translate that into three dimensions instead of
> one, it produces a bee that is about half as large again as is
> natural. By letting the bees build natural sized cells, I have
> virtually eliminated my Varroa and Tracheal mite problems. One cause
> of this is shorter capping times by one day, and shorter post-
> capping times by one day. This means less Varroa get into the cells,
> and less Varroa reproduce in the cells.
>
> Who should be surprised that the major media reports forget to tell
> us that the dying bees are actually hyper-bred varieties that we
> coax into a larger than normal body size? It sounds just like the
> beef industry. And, have we here a solution to the vanishing bee
> problem? Is it one that the CCD Working Group, or indeed, the
> scientific world at large, will support? Will media coverage affect
> government action in dealing with this issue?
>
> These are important questions to ask. It is not an uncommonly held
> opinion that, although this new pattern of bee colony collapse seems
> to have struck from out of the blue (which suggests a triggering
> agent), it is likely that some biological limit in the bees has been
> crossed. There is no shortage of evidence that we have been fast
> approaching this limit for some time.
>
> We've been pushing them too hard, Dr. Peter Kevan, an associate
> professor of environmental biology at the University of Guelph in
> Ontario, told the CBC. And we're starving them out by feeding them
> artificially and moving them great distances. Given the stress
> commercial bees are under, Kevan suggests CCD might be caused by
> parasitic mites, or long cold winters, or long wet springs, or
> pesticides, or genetically modified crops. Maybe it's all of the
> above..."
>
> I am quite involved with many alternative agriculture
> groups, and I received this email from a trusted
> friend...you might want to check it out for your news
> section...
> Received from Lancifer | redicecreations.comhttp://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=974
> No ORGANIC Bee losses
> 2007 05 06

The issue seems quite complex. When you assume that collapse of the
bee hives may be linked to the use of pesticides you may be talking in
favor of genetically modified crops (GM) that requires less pesticide.
When you assume a role for GM is quite on the contrary.
However, if I have to find a "coal mine canary" among earth living
beings for the GM unexpected effects, the one would be no other than
the bee hives. In this case, I could ask for special care in GM
changes that help producing sterile seeds...since this will be the
strongest contact point of the "canary and poison gas".
In the sea, I would rather pay attention to corals and their
pathogens, remembering that corals may have their defenses mechanisms
but do not have immune system.


The_blogologist
2007-05-17 06:03:50 EST
We need many more scary global warming pictures of stranded polar bears
(who can swim up to 300 miles!) Give us more of that to generate LOTS
MORE FEDERAL FUNDING!!!!!!!!!!!! (so Al Gore can get a bigger fuel
gobbling mansion)


Jan Flora
2007-05-20 08:38:46 EST
In article <1hy8i76.1rjesdy14cshecN%nobody@nowheres.com>,
n*y@nowheres.com (the_blogologist) wrote:

> We need many more scary global warming pictures of stranded polar bears
> (who can swim up to 300 miles!) Give us more of that to generate LOTS
> MORE FEDERAL FUNDING!!!!!!!!!!!! (so Al Gore can get a bigger fuel
> gobbling mansion)

Try selling that to Inupiat and Inuit people who depend on
reliable sea ice for seal hunting and whaling, to put food
on the table. They're having a hell of a time this year, with
the pack ice so screwed up, finding food.

Hint: there are NO Safeway stores in their villages.

Another hint: there are no cash jobs in their villages
to buy food, even if there were Safeway stores.

Subsistance hunting & fishing *is* a job in the villages.
The hunters feed the village. The hunters share what they
get with everyone in the village. The elders get fed first,
out of respect.

Some of you folks in the small states need to get out
and see the world through the eyes of other people/cultures
once in awhile. The whole world isn't like where you live,
Thank Godess.

If you showed up in an Eskimo village, The People would
probably feed you and find you a warm place to sleep. If an
Eskimo showed up in your town, they'd probably go hungry and
sleep cold. It's all a matter of culture and local traditions.
In my mind, the "savages" in the north are far more civilized
than many of you people down there in the small states. YMMV.

Fortunately, you have many Indian tribes down there, so there
is hope that you may meet a civilized person and learn how to
act properly, if you try.

Jan in Alaska

--
Bedouin proverb: If you have no troubles, buy a goat.

The_blogologist
2007-05-20 17:51:03 EST
Jan Flora <snowshoe@xyz.net> wrote:

> In article <1hy8i76.1rjesdy14cshecN%nobody@nowheres.com>,
> nobody@nowheres.com (the_blogologist) wrote:
>
> > We need many more scary global warming pictures of stranded polar bears
> > (who can swim up to 300 miles!) Give us more of that to generate LOTS
> > MORE FEDERAL FUNDING!!!!!!!!!!!! (so Al Gore can get a bigger fuel
> > gobbling mansion)
>
> Try selling that to Inupiat and Inuit people who depend on
> reliable sea ice for seal hunting and whaling, to put food
> on the table. They're having a hell of a time this year, with
> the pack ice so screwed up, finding food.

They can do like people have done for thousands of years when local
prosperity fails, move. If the planet is warming it means we will lose
some shoreline, farmers may have to adapt, but we will also gain a lot
of real estate that was too cold.

Weather pattens change. It's a fact of life. Whether the planet as a
whole is heating up is disputable. If it is, how much man has
contributed to global warming is also disputable. These are the most
disputed aspects of global warming, yet those who promote it insist vast
majority of scientists agree there is no doubt, which is nonsense. The
funding for scientists to promote global warming is vastly more
substantial than the funding of those to dispute it who get accused of
being paid by the oil companies :-/

There's a massive PR campaign in the media being used to sell us that
bridge. It's only going to cost us a few hundred billion to create a
program that probably won't do a thing to help the Inuit people :-/


Most of any global warming is probably caused by the changing output of
the sun which is what ended at least a couple ice ages. The SUN is the
engine of our weather, yet all these global warming supporters seem to
have forgotten all about it. The SUN does not have a constant output,
and when it changes, our weather changes with it.


The thing Al Gore and his supporters in the media and at NASA want to do
is create a MASSIVE new spending program to capatialize on it. Remember,
Al Gore is the guy who wanted to tax the internet!! Now he's found
something else he can tax. It's all about money.


http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/8595/globalwarmingtb2.jpg

News article(s) about it:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/6369971.stm

Documentary that goes with this article:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=286000425078890061


The Great Global Warming Swindle:(1 hr 16 min)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4499562022478442170


> Hint: there are NO Safeway stores in their villages.
>
> Another hint: there are no cash jobs in their villages
> to buy food, even if there were Safeway stores.
>
> Subsistance hunting & fishing *is* a job in the villages.
> The hunters feed the village. The hunters share what they
> get with everyone in the village. The elders get fed first,
> out of respect.
>
> Some of you folks in the small states need to get out
> and see the world through the eyes of other people/cultures
> once in awhile. The whole world isn't like where you live,
> Thank Godess.
>
> If you showed up in an Eskimo village, The People would
> probably feed you and find you a warm place to sleep. If an
> Eskimo showed up in your town, they'd probably go hungry and
> sleep cold. It's all a matter of culture and local traditions.
> In my mind, the "savages" in the north are far more civilized
> than many of you people down there in the small states. YMMV.
>
> Fortunately, you have many Indian tribes down there, so there
> is hope that you may meet a civilized person and learn how to
> act properly, if you try.
>
> Jan in Alaska




Eric Gisin
2007-05-28 13:42:13 EST
"Jan Flora" <snowshoe@xyz.net> wrote in message
news:snowshoe-C69941.03384620052007@prawn.nwc.acsalaska.net...
> In article <1hy8i76.1rjesdy14cshecN%nobody@nowheres.com>,
> nobody@nowheres.com (the_blogologist) wrote:
>
>> We need many more scary global warming pictures of stranded polar bears
>> (who can swim up to 300 miles!) Give us more of that to generate LOTS
>> MORE FEDERAL FUNDING!!!!!!!!!!!! (so Al Gore can get a bigger fuel
>> gobbling mansion)
>
Correct, polar bears are under no threat except green propaganda.

> Try selling that to Inupiat and Inuit people who depend on
> reliable sea ice for seal hunting and whaling, to put food
> on the table. They're having a hell of a time this year, with
> the pack ice so screwed up, finding food.
>
Green Nazis are against eating plentiful wild life.

> Hint: there are NO Safeway stores in their villages.
>
Reality: they take their snowmobile or ATV to the village store
and buy food with their welfare bux, just like you do.

> Another hint: there are no cash jobs in their villages
> to buy food, even if there were Safeway stores.
>
> Subsistance hunting & fishing *is* a job in the villages.
> The hunters feed the village. The hunters share what they
> get with everyone in the village. The elders get fed first,
> out of respect.
>
> Some of you folks in the small states need to get out
> and see the world through the eyes of other people/cultures
> once in awhile. The whole world isn't like where you live,
> Thank Godess.
>
Where do you get this bullshit from, PBS?

> If you showed up in an Eskimo village, The People would
> probably feed you and find you a warm place to sleep. If an
> Eskimo showed up in your town, they'd probably go hungry and
> sleep cold. It's all a matter of culture and local traditions.
> In my mind, the "savages" in the north are far more civilized
> than many of you people down there in the small states. YMMV.
>
> Fortunately, you have many Indian tribes down there, so there
> is hope that you may meet a civilized person and learn how to
> act properly, if you try.
>
> Jan in Alaska
>


Andro
2007-05-29 23:53:17 EST
On May 10, 11:46 am, Tim Campbell <timc...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> "Sharon Labchuk is a longtime environmental activist and part-time
> organic beekeeper from Prince Edward Island. She has twice run for a
> seat in Ottawa's House of Commons, making strong showings around 5%
> for Canada's fledgling Green Party. She is also leader of the
> provincial wing of her party. In a widely circulated email, she
> wrote:
>
> I'm on an organic beekeeping list of about 1,000 people, mostly
> Americans, and no one in the organic beekeeping world, including
> commercial beekeepers, is reporting colony collapse on this list.
> The problem with the big commercial guys is that they put pesticides
> in their hives to fumigate for varroa mites, and they feed
> antibiotics to the bees. They also haul the hives by truck all over
> the place to make more money with pollination services, which
> stresses the colonies.
>
> Her email recommends a visit to the Bush Bees Web site at Here,
> Michael Bush felt compelled to put a message to the beekeeping world
> right on the top page:
>
> Most of us beekeepers are fighting with the Varroa mites. I'm happy
> to say my biggest problems are things like trying to get nucs
> through the winter and coming up with hives that won't hurt my back
> from lifting or better ways to feed the bees.
>
> This change from fighting the mites is mostly because I've gone to
> natural sized cells. In case you weren't aware, and I wasn't for a
> long time, the foundation in common usage results in much larger
> bees than what you would find in a natural hive. I've measured
> sections of natural worker brood comb that are 4.6mm in diameter.
> What most people use for worker brood is foundation that is 5.4mm in
> diameter. If you translate that into three dimensions instead of
> one, it produces a bee that is about half as large again as is
> natural. By letting the bees build natural sized cells, I have
> virtually eliminated my Varroa and Tracheal mite problems. One cause
> of this is shorter capping times by one day, and shorter post-
> capping times by one day. This means less Varroa get into the cells,
> and less Varroa reproduce in the cells.
>
> Who should be surprised that the major media reports forget to tell
> us that the dying bees are actually hyper-bred varieties that we
> coax into a larger than normal body size? It sounds just like the
> beef industry. And, have we here a solution to the vanishing bee
> problem? Is it one that the CCD Working Group, or indeed, the
> scientific world at large, will support? Will media coverage affect
> government action in dealing with this issue?
>
> These are important questions to ask. It is not an uncommonly held
> opinion that, although this new pattern of bee colony collapse seems
> to have struck from out of the blue (which suggests a triggering
> agent), it is likely that some biological limit in the bees has been
> crossed. There is no shortage of evidence that we have been fast
> approaching this limit for some time.
>
> We've been pushing them too hard, Dr. Peter Kevan, an associate
> professor of environmental biology at the University of Guelph in
> Ontario, told the CBC. And we're starving them out by feeding them
> artificially and moving them great distances. Given the stress
> commercial bees are under, Kevan suggests CCD might be caused by
> parasitic mites, or long cold winters, or long wet springs, or
> pesticides, or genetically modified crops. Maybe it's all of the
> above..."
>
> I am quite involved with many alternative agriculture
> groups, and I received this email from a trusted
> friend...you might want to check it out for your news
> section...
> Received from Lancifer | redicecreations.comhttp://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=974
> No ORGANIC Bee losses
> 2007 05 06


So then cell phone use is not causing bees to become disoriented? I
guess that would go under the category of urban legend.

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