Vegetarian Discussion: What Are The Ethics Regarding Fish Consumption?

What Are The Ethics Regarding Fish Consumption?
Posts: 20

Report Abuse

Use this form to report abuse or request takedown.
The requests are usually processed within 48 hours.

Page: 1 2   Next  (First | Last)

Blueshark
2006-09-21 04:31:42 EST
Please can you inform me of the vegetarian ethics regarding consumption
of Fish?

I would like you to consider that the fish is sourced from non-polluted
sustainable fisheries.

Thanks-in-advance


Pearl
2006-09-21 07:49:07 EST
"Blueshark" <duncan10@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1158827502.437006.32930@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Please can you inform me of the vegetarian ethics regarding consumption
> of Fish?
>
> I would like you to consider that the fish is sourced from non-polluted
> sustainable fisheries.
>
> Thanks-in-advance

'Fish cruelty

There is no question that fish caught for food suffer. Numerous
scientific reports have examined the question of whether fish feel
pain and all recent investigations have supported the conclusion
that they do. In July 2004 the European Food Safety Authority
issued a report on slaughter in which they examined the killing of
farmed fish. They concluded that "many existing commercial
killing methods expose fish to substantial suffering over a long
period of time." They also noted that "asphyxia/asphyxia in ice . . .
and bleeding out/exsanguination are not humane methods for
killing fish." Asphyxia - being starved of oxygen - is the method
by which wild, trawled fish are killed. It is a horrible death - far
worse, indeed, than that faced by most land animals.
..
Environmental Destruction
..
Trawling
..
Drift Netting
..
Purse Seine Netting
..
Wildlife
..
Fish - a healthy option?
..
Fish Farming
..
Wildlife
..
Pollution
...'
http://www.viva.org.uk/campaigns/fish/index.html



Chico Chupacabra
2006-09-21 07:56:55 EST
lying foot-rubbing charlatan Lesley wrote:

> > Please can you inform me of the vegetarian ethics regarding
> > consumption of Fish?
> >
> > I would like you to consider that the fish is sourced from
> > non-polluted sustainable fisheries.
> >
> > Thanks-in-advance
>
> 'Fish cruelty
>
> There is no question that fish caught for food suffer. Numerous
> scientific reports have examined the question of whether fish feel
> pain and all recent investigations have supported the conclusion
> that they do.

Liar.

Anglers rest easy. Fish cannot feel pain, the largest study into piscine
neurology has concluded.

An academic study comparing the nervous systems and responses of fish
and mammals has found that fishes' brains are not sufficiently developed
to allow them to sense pain or fear.

The study is the work of James D Rose, a professor of zoology and
physiology at the University of Wyoming, who has been working on
questions of neurology for almost 30 years. He has examined data on the
responses of animals to pain and stimulus from scores of studies
collected over the past 15 years.

His report, published in the American journal Reviews of Fisheries
Science, has concluded that awareness of pain depends on functions of
specific regions of the cerebral cortex which fish do not possess.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/02/10/1044725683181.html

Blueshark
2006-09-21 08:01:26 EST
I am thinking, if fish feel pain...then they must also feel joy.

When is a fish happy?
What scenario is necessary for this condition to arise?
chico chupacabra wrote:
> lying foot-rubbing charlatan Lesley wrote:
>
> > > Please can you inform me of the vegetarian ethics regarding
> > > consumption of Fish?
> > >
> > > I would like you to consider that the fish is sourced from
> > > non-polluted sustainable fisheries.
> > >
> > > Thanks-in-advance
> >
> > 'Fish cruelty
> >
> > There is no question that fish caught for food suffer. Numerous
> > scientific reports have examined the question of whether fish feel
> > pain and all recent investigations have supported the conclusion
> > that they do.
>
> Liar.
>
> Anglers rest easy. Fish cannot feel pain, the largest study into piscine
> neurology has concluded.
>
> An academic study comparing the nervous systems and responses of fish
> and mammals has found that fishes' brains are not sufficiently developed
> to allow them to sense pain or fear.
>
> The study is the work of James D Rose, a professor of zoology and
> physiology at the University of Wyoming, who has been working on
> questions of neurology for almost 30 years. He has examined data on the
> responses of animals to pain and stimulus from scores of studies
> collected over the past 15 years.
>
> His report, published in the American journal Reviews of Fisheries
> Science, has concluded that awareness of pain depends on functions of
> specific regions of the cerebral cortex which fish do not possess.
> http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/02/10/1044725683181.html


Chico Chupacabra
2006-09-21 08:02:43 EST
chico chupacabra added:


Academics can spend a lot of time debating the precise nature of
"consciousness," but from a clinical, neurological perspective,
instinctive reflexes aren't part of the mix.

"It's not just the ability to perceive and react to negative stimuli,"
says Richard Moccia, a professor of animal science at Guelph. "That
isn't pain. Pain really is psychological at a higher level. We're really
thinking about a higher level of consciousness being required."

And do fish have that consciousness? "The jury," says Moccia, "is still
out on that."

Even Braithwaite, who readily uses
words like pain and fear when talking about fish, isn't sure they're
conscious.

"I would say that some of the behaviours of fish are much more
sophisticated than we would have given them credit for, say, a decade
ago," says Braithwaite. "Whether that means they're conscious, I feel
very uncomfortable about. I would say we don't have enough evidence to
say that they are."

There is, on both sides of the issue, fairly wide agreement that too
much cognitive ability might actually be a very bad thing for a fish,
since taking time for thought could prove fatal.

"They've got to be vigilant all of the time, whether they're a predator
or prey," says Rose. "I've watched bonefish and sharks interact in the
Bahamas, and everybody's got to pay attention all the time, because when
a shark takes off, it's pretty abrupt."

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1153000221421&call_pageid=970599119419

Chico Chupacabra
2006-09-21 08:07:07 EST
Blueshark wrote:

> I am thinking, if fish feel pain...then they must also feel joy.
>
> When is a fish happy?

When it's gorged from eating its own young and not being eaten by a
shark. That's flippant, but I think it's too easy to engage in
anthropormorphic projections about animals (including fish).

> What scenario is necessary for this condition to arise?

See the link I just added.


> chico chupacabra wrote:
> > lying foot-rubbing charlatan Lesley wrote:
> >
> > > > Please can you inform me of the vegetarian ethics regarding
> > > > consumption of Fish?
> > > >
> > > > I would like you to consider that the fish is sourced from
> > > > non-polluted sustainable fisheries.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks-in-advance
> > >
> > > 'Fish cruelty
> > >
> > > There is no question that fish caught for food suffer. Numerous
> > > scientific reports have examined the question of whether fish feel
> > > pain and all recent investigations have supported the conclusion
> > > that they do.
> >
> > Liar.
> >
> > Anglers rest easy. Fish cannot feel pain, the largest study into
> > piscine neurology has concluded.
> >
> > An academic study comparing the nervous systems and responses of
> > fish and mammals has found that fishes' brains are not sufficiently
> > developed to allow them to sense pain or fear.
> >
> > The study is the work of James D Rose, a professor of zoology and
> > physiology at the University of Wyoming, who has been working on
> > questions of neurology for almost 30 years. He has examined data on
> > the responses of animals to pain and stimulus from scores of studies
> > collected over the past 15 years.
> >
> > His report, published in the American journal Reviews of Fisheries
> > Science, has concluded that awareness of pain depends on functions
> > of specific regions of the cerebral cortex which fish do not
> > possess.
> > http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/02/10/1044725683181.html
>

Chico Chupacabra
2006-09-21 08:51:37 EST
psycho bitch Lesley wrote:

> > > > Please can you inform me of the vegetarian ethics regarding
> > > > consumption of Fish?
> > > >
> > > > I would like you to consider that the fish is sourced from
> > > > non-polluted sustainable fisheries.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks-in-advance
> > >
> > > 'Fish cruelty
> > >
> > > There is no question that fish caught for food suffer. Numerous
> > > scientific reports have examined the question of whether fish feel
> > > pain and all recent investigations have supported the conclusion
> > > that they do.
> >
> > Liar.
> >
> > Anglers rest easy. Fish cannot feel pain, the largest study into
> > piscine neurology has concluded.
> >
> > An academic study comparing the nervous systems and responses of
> > fish and mammals has found that fishes' brains are not sufficiently
> > developed to allow them to sense pain or fear.
> >
> > The study is the work of James D Rose, a professor of zoology and
> > physiology at the University of Wyoming, who has been working on
> > questions of neurology for almost 30 years. He has examined data on
> > the responses of animals to pain and stimulus from scores of studies
> > collected over the past 15 years.
> >
> > His report, published in the American journal Reviews of Fisheries
> > Science, has concluded that awareness of pain depends on functions
> > of specific regions of the cerebral cortex which fish do not
> > possess.
> > http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/02/10/1044725683181.html
>
> ' Although providing a brief, generalized description, Rose never
> sufficiently explains how, or why, the neocortex is thought to be
> responsible for consciousness,

Academics can spend a lot of time debating the precise nature of
"consciousness," but from a clinical, neurological perspective,
instinctive reflexes aren't part of the mix.

"It's not just the ability to perceive and react to negative stimuli,"
says Richard Moccia, a professor of animal science at Guelph. "That
isn't pain. Pain really is psychological at a higher level. We're really
thinking about a higher level of consciousness being required."

And do fish have that consciousness? "The jury," says Moccia, "is still
out on that."

Even Braithwaite, who readily uses
words like pain and fear when talking about fish, isn't sure they're
conscious.

"I would say that some of the behaviours of fish are much more
sophisticated than we would have given them credit for, say, a decade
ago," says Braithwaite. "Whether that means they're conscious, I feel
very uncomfortable about. I would say we don't have enough evidence to
say that they are."

There is, on both sides of the issue, fairly wide agreement that too
much cognitive ability might actually be a very bad thing for a fish,
since taking time for thought could prove fatal.

"They've got to be vigilant all of the time, whether they're a predator
or prey," says Rose. "I've watched bonefish and sharks interact in the
Bahamas, and everybody's got to pay attention all the time, because when
a shark takes off, it's pretty abrupt."

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1153000221421&call_pageid=970599119419

D*@.
2006-09-21 15:43:37 EST
On 21 Sep 2006 05:01:26 -0700, "Blueshark" <duncan10@gmail.com> wrote:

>I am thinking, if fish feel pain...then they must also feel joy.

Not necessarily. But we know they can see, and hear, and
smell, so there's no reason to believe whatever they have for
a brain can not detect feeling as well, and there's nothing that
suggest part of what they feel is not pain.

>When is a fish happy?
>What scenario is necessary for this condition to arise?

If they can feel happiness, it most likely depends on the fish
as to what makes it happy, but in most cases it probably has
something to do with food. That being the case, fish in a fish
farm might be the happiest fish on Earth...at least we can
hope so.

Fish can anticipate too, btw. They might not be able to feel
disappointment as dogs can, but it's well known that they can
anticipate, and don't let any Goobers tell you differently.

Blueshark
2006-09-26 07:50:04 EST
Yeah, I think fish can be happy. I guess it is a completely different
sense to human happiness.

I just read this on a Vegan mailing list:

It was posted that omega-3 (with DHA) can be found in algae plants.

Is this true - are these 'edible' by humans?

Surely it brings the conumdrum, of eating food made exclusively for
fish - is that not unethical?


dh@. wrote:

> On 21 Sep 2006 05:01:26 -0700, "Blueshark" <duncan10@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >I am thinking, if fish feel pain...then they must also feel joy.
>
> Not necessarily. But we know they can see, and hear, and
> smell, so there's no reason to believe whatever they have for
> a brain can not detect feeling as well, and there's nothing that
> suggest part of what they feel is not pain.
>
> >When is a fish happy?
> >What scenario is necessary for this condition to arise?
>
> If they can feel happiness, it most likely depends on the fish
> as to what makes it happy, but in most cases it probably has
> something to do with food. That being the case, fish in a fish
> farm might be the happiest fish on Earth...at least we can
> hope so.
>
> Fish can anticipate too, btw. They might not be able to feel
> disappointment as dogs can, but it's well known that they can
> anticipate, and don't let any Goobers tell you differently.


D*@.
2006-09-28 10:55:56 EST
On 26 Sep 2006 04:50:04 -0700, "Blueshark" <duncan10@gmail.com> wrote:

>Yeah, I think fish can be happy. I guess it is a completely different
>sense to human happiness.
>
>I just read this on a Vegan mailing list:
>
>It was posted that omega-3 (with DHA) can be found in algae plants.
>
>Is this true - are these 'edible' by humans?

I don't know.

>Surely it brings the conumdrum, of eating food made exclusively for
>fish - is that not unethical?

Maybe not if there's enough for the fish too. What you need to wonder
about is if the fish should exist, or the cattle, or chickens, or pigs, or turkeys...

Page: 1 2   Next  (First | Last)


2020 - UsenetArchives.com | Contact Us | Privacy | Stats | Site Search
Become our Patron