Vegetarian Discussion: Meat Is Good For You

Meat Is Good For You
Posts: 25

Report Abuse

Use this form to report abuse or request takedown.
The requests are usually processed within 48 hours.

Page: 1 2 3   Next  (First | Last)

Dr Moria
2006-09-11 11:09:14 EST
Meat Is Good For You

A number of years ago, I ran a technically-oriented mailing list for
low-carbohydrate dieters. Low-carb dieters by necessity eat a lot of
protein, and while it's not impossible to be a low-carb vegetarian, it's
very difficult. Low-carb veganism is not quite impossible, but very close to
it. Yet we had list members who were physicians, nurses, physical trainers,
nurses, and smart people who had strong knowledge and documentation of their
own histories, and we saw pretty consistently that, while not everyone
thrived on such diets, quite a few did spectacularly well on them.
Undeniably so.

This also led me, eventually, to found the Paleolithic Diet Symposium. I
don't run it anymore, but the list still occasionally has some fascinating
stuff on it. Most recently, one of the members came up with this excellent
article on why the vegetarian myth simply doesn't work, and humans have been
eating meat for millions of years. For which there has always been abundant
evidence. But this recent evidence adds only more data to support of it.

Fact is I was pretty unhealthy as a vegetarian, as was Rosemary. We both
found we couldn't maintain good health without meat in our diets. Of course,
others seem to do well with vegetarianism, and we don't begrudge them that.
But folks who keep insisting that humans did not evolve to eat meat need to
give up this line of reasoning.

http://www.deanesmay.com/archives/004836.html



Double O'Malley
2006-09-11 18:24:34 EST
Dr Moria wrote:
> Meat Is Good For You
>
> A number of years ago, I ran a technically-oriented mailing list for
> low-carbohydrate dieters. Low-carb dieters by necessity eat a lot of
> protein, and while it's not impossible to be a low-carb vegetarian, it's
> very difficult. Low-carb veganism is not quite impossible, but very close to
> it. Yet we had list members who were physicians, nurses, physical trainers,
> nurses, and smart people who had strong knowledge and documentation of their
> own histories, and we saw pretty consistently that, while not everyone
> thrived on such diets, quite a few did spectacularly well on them.
> Undeniably so.
>
> This also led me, eventually, to found the Paleolithic Diet Symposium. I
> don't run it anymore, but the list still occasionally has some fascinating
> stuff on it. Most recently, one of the members came up with this excellent
> article on why the vegetarian myth simply doesn't work, and humans have been
> eating meat for millions of years. For which there has always been abundant
> evidence. But this recent evidence adds only more data to support of it.
>
> Fact is I was pretty unhealthy as a vegetarian, as was Rosemary. We both
> found we couldn't maintain good health without meat in our diets. Of course,
> others seem to do well with vegetarianism, and we don't begrudge them that.
> But folks who keep insisting that humans did not evolve to eat meat need to
> give up this line of reasoning.

When did evolution stop for you, Doc? Why do you say that humans evolved
*to* eat meat, rather than say we're evolving *from* eating meat?

I don't know you or Rosemary, maybe you look like early hominids, but my
teeth are smaller and my forehead doesn't slope so much.

Dr Moria
2006-09-12 02:02:57 EST

"Double O'Malley" <OO@lava.org> wrote in message
news:CmlNg.10281$bM.2194@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> Dr Moria wrote:
>> Meat Is Good For You
>>
>> A number of years ago, I ran a technically-oriented mailing list for
>> low-carbohydrate dieters. Low-carb dieters by necessity eat a lot of
>> protein, and while it's not impossible to be a low-carb vegetarian, it's
>> very difficult. Low-carb veganism is not quite impossible, but very close
>> to it. Yet we had list members who were physicians, nurses, physical
>> trainers, nurses, and smart people who had strong knowledge and
>> documentation of their own histories, and we saw pretty consistently
>> that, while not everyone thrived on such diets, quite a few did
>> spectacularly well on them. Undeniably so.
>>
>> This also led me, eventually, to found the Paleolithic Diet Symposium. I
>> don't run it anymore, but the list still occasionally has some
>> fascinating stuff on it. Most recently, one of the members came up with
>> this excellent article on why the vegetarian myth simply doesn't work,
>> and humans have been eating meat for millions of years. For which there
>> has always been abundant evidence. But this recent evidence adds only
>> more data to support of it.
>>
>> Fact is I was pretty unhealthy as a vegetarian, as was Rosemary. We both
>> found we couldn't maintain good health without meat in our diets. Of
>> course, others seem to do well with vegetarianism, and we don't begrudge
>> them that. But folks who keep insisting that humans did not evolve to eat
>> meat need to give up this line of reasoning.
>
> When did evolution stop for you, Doc? Why do you say that humans evolved
> *to* eat meat, rather than say we're evolving *from* eating meat?
>
> I don't know you or Rosemary, maybe you look like early hominids, but my
> teeth are smaller and my forehead doesn't slope so much.

but your brain cavity is much smaller, like a cats, cause eating a veggie is
ez for morons, it takes brains to hunt, kill, skin and process an animal and
cook and eat it all.



D*@.
2006-09-12 12:37:38 EST
On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 01:02:57 -0500, "Dr Moria" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

>
>"Double O'Malley" <OO@lava.org> wrote in message
>news:CmlNg.10281$bM.2194@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> Dr Moria wrote:
>>> Meat Is Good For You
>>>
>>> A number of years ago, I ran a technically-oriented mailing list for
>>> low-carbohydrate dieters. Low-carb dieters by necessity eat a lot of
>>> protein, and while it's not impossible to be a low-carb vegetarian, it's
>>> very difficult. Low-carb veganism is not quite impossible, but very close
>>> to it. Yet we had list members who were physicians, nurses, physical
>>> trainers, nurses, and smart people who had strong knowledge and
>>> documentation of their own histories, and we saw pretty consistently
>>> that, while not everyone thrived on such diets, quite a few did
>>> spectacularly well on them. Undeniably so.
>>>
>>> This also led me, eventually, to found the Paleolithic Diet Symposium. I
>>> don't run it anymore, but the list still occasionally has some
>>> fascinating stuff on it. Most recently, one of the members came up with
>>> this excellent article on why the vegetarian myth simply doesn't work,
>>> and humans have been eating meat for millions of years. For which there
>>> has always been abundant evidence. But this recent evidence adds only
>>> more data to support of it.
>>>
>>> Fact is I was pretty unhealthy as a vegetarian, as was Rosemary. We both
>>> found we couldn't maintain good health without meat in our diets. Of
>>> course, others seem to do well with vegetarianism, and we don't begrudge
>>> them that. But folks who keep insisting that humans did not evolve to eat
>>> meat need to give up this line of reasoning.
>>
>> When did evolution stop for you, Doc? Why do you say that humans evolved
>> *to* eat meat, rather than say we're evolving *from* eating meat?
>>
>> I don't know you or Rosemary, maybe you look like early hominids, but my
>> teeth are smaller and my forehead doesn't slope so much.
>
>but your brain cavity is much smaller, like a cats, cause eating a veggie is
>ez for morons, it takes brains to hunt, kill, skin and process an animal and
>cook and eat it all.

It's almost certainly also how humans learned to work in teams. We can
also see that in chimps hunting monkeys:
_________________________________________________________
[...]
In the American Scientist article, Stanford describes witnessing the largest massacre
ever documented at Gombe. Two hunting parties with a total of 33 chimps - two of
them swollen females - converged on a group of 25 colobus monkeys. The male chimps
chased and shook the monkeys from trees, eventually killing seven. Before Stanford's
eyes, a large male chimp plucked a baby monkey from a branch and "dispatched it with
a bite to the skull." The chimp then approached a swollen female with the carcass,
dangling it just out of her reach until she presented her swelling. Only after copulation
did the male share his food.

"An important issue today in human male-female relationships is control," Stanford said.
"What we're seeing is the evolutionary roots of this kind of mutual attempt to manipulate
and control. Male chimps are using meat to control female behavior and female chimps
are making use of their reproductive system to get meat."
[...]
http://www.usc.edu/ext-relations/news_service/chronicle_html/1995.02.06.html/chimp.html
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
_________________________________________________________
[...]
We might look toward the social aspects of chimpanzee societies to understand their hunting
patterns. One clue to the significance of meat in a chimpanzee society comes from the observation
that males do most of the hunting. During the past decade, adult and adolescent males made over 90
percent of the kills at Gombe. Although females occasionally hunt, they more often receive a share
of
meat from the male who captured the prey.

This state of affairs sets up an interesting dynamic between males and females. Sometimes a begging
female does not receive any meat until after the male copulates with her (even while clutching the
freshly killed carcass). Some other observations are also telling. Not only does the size of a
hunting
party increase in proportion to the number of estrous females present, but the presence of an
estrous
female independently increases the likelihood that there will be a hunt. Such observations suggest
that
male chimpanzees use meat as a tool to gain access to sexually receptive females. But females appear
to be getting reproductive benefits as well: William McGrew of Miami University in Ohio showed that
female chimpanzees at Gombe that receive generous shares of meat produce more offspring that
survive.

The distribution of the kill to other male chimpanzees also hints at another social role for meat.
The
Japanese primatologist Toshisada Nishida and his colleagues in the Mahale Mountains showed that
the alpha male Ntilogi distributes meat to his allies but consistently withholds it from his rivals.
Such
behavior, they suggest, reveals that meat can be used as a political tool in chimpanzee society.
Further studies should tell us whether such actions have consequences for alliances between males.
[...]
http://www.sigmaxi.org/amsci/articles/95articles/Stanford-full.html
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

S*@yahoo.com
2006-09-12 13:23:34 EST

Dr Moria wrote:
> Meat Is Good For You
>
> A number of years ago, I ran a technically-oriented mailing list for
> low-carbohydrate dieters. Low-carb dieters by necessity eat a lot of
> protein, and while it's not impossible to be a low-carb vegetarian, it's
> very difficult. Low-carb veganism is not quite impossible, but very close to
> it. Yet we had list members who were physicians, nurses, physical trainers,
> nurses, and smart people who had strong knowledge and documentation of their
> own histories, and we saw pretty consistently that, while not everyone
> thrived on such diets, quite a few did spectacularly well on them.
> Undeniably so.
>
> This also led me, eventually, to found the Paleolithic Diet Symposium. I
> don't run it anymore, but the list still occasionally has some fascinating
> stuff on it. Most recently, one of the members came up with this excellent
> article on why the vegetarian myth simply doesn't work, and humans have been
> eating meat for millions of years. For which there has always been abundant
> evidence. But this recent evidence adds only more data to support of it.
>
> Fact is I was pretty unhealthy as a vegetarian, as was Rosemary. We both
> found we couldn't maintain good health without meat in our diets. Of course,
> others seem to do well with vegetarianism, and we don't begrudge them that.
> But folks who keep insisting that humans did not evolve to eat meat need to
> give up this line of reasoning.
>
> http://www.deanesmay.com/archives/004836.html

An example of the lack of intelligence found therein:

"Aren't there some who posit that an increase in our brain power went
hand in hand with increasing our consumption of meat way back when we
were evolving?"

I like that, "way back when we were evolving".. before God threw the
switch to end that stage and gave us our intelligence because we
learned animal sacrifice rituals.

Actually there may be a very small grain of truth to it.. natural
selection can play a larger role when times are very hard and many have
to die. When times are very hard, food is scarce, people resort to
eating whatever they can. In this way, meat eating may be correlated
with evolution. It certainly has changed the worlds fauna irreversibly.


Pearl
2006-09-12 14:24:01 EST
<*4@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1158081814.059191.60320@e63g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

> Actually there may be a very small grain of truth to it.. natural
> selection can play a larger role when times are very hard and many have
> to die. When times are very hard, food is scarce, people resort to
> eating whatever they can. In this way, meat eating may be correlated
> with evolution. It certainly has changed the worlds fauna irreversibly.

'The historical role of meat in human diets has probably varied
significantly, as Jared Diamond, who is an authority on human
evolution, points out:

.... while early humans ate some meat, we do not know how
much meat they ate, nor whether they got the meat by hunting
or scavenging. It is not until much later, around 100,000 years
ago, that we have good evidence about human hunting skills,
and it is clear that humans then were still very ineffective
big-game hunters. Human hunters of 500,000 years ago and
earlier must have been more ineffective.
...'
http://tinyurl.com/dahps

'..many fossils of early man show the sutures of the skull to
have virtually completely closed, a circumstance indicating
extreme age. [Dawson, Sir William, Meeting Place of
Geology and History, Revell, New York, 1904, p.63.]
..
Ales Hrdlicka made a special study of this question and
commented in connection with the earlier remains as follows: (70)

There is no trace in the adults of any destructive constitutional
disease. There are marks of fractures, some traces of arthritis of
the vertebrae, and in two cases (La Chapelle and the Rhodesian
Skull) much less of teeth and dental caries. The teeth in the
remaining specimens are often more or less worn, but as a rule
free from disease, and there is, aside from the above mentioned
two specimens, but little disease of the alveolar processes.

It appears, therefore, that on the whole, early man was remarkably
free from disease that would leave any evidence on his bones and
teeth.

Then he turned to later human remains and observed, "Such
diseases as syphilis, rachitis, tuberculosis, cancer (of the bone
at least), hydrocephalus, etc., were unknown or rare in these. . . ."
Subsequently he showed the gradual increase of other diseases
of bone and teeth, and speaking of the much later remains of
early man he concluded:

"As we proceed towards men of today, particularly in the white
race pathological conditions of the bone become more common."

In a similar vein George A. Dorsey pointed to the evidence of
degeneration in the human body as it now is: (71)

"There are more than mere structural variations in our food canal:
there are signs of degeneracy -- in teeth, in jaws and throat, and in
the large intestine. Changed diet does it. To digest raw food our
ancestors had to chew it. They had strong jaws, heavy muscles,
sound teeth properly aligned, big throats, and colons that could
digest husks of grain and skins of fruits and vegetables. "
..... '
http://custance.org/Library/Volume3/Part_I/Appendix.html





Shrubkiller
2006-09-12 17:05:39 EST

Dr Moria wrote:
> "Double O'Malley" <OO@lava.org> wrote in message
> news:CmlNg.10281$bM.2194@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > Dr Moria wrote:
> >> Meat Is Good For You
> >>
> >> A number of years ago, I ran a technically-oriented mailing list for
> >> low-carbohydrate dieters. Low-carb dieters by necessity eat a lot of
> >> protein, and while it's not impossible to be a low-carb vegetarian, it's
> >> very difficult. Low-carb veganism is not quite impossible, but very close
> >> to it. Yet we had list members who were physicians, nurses, physical
> >> trainers, nurses, and smart people who had strong knowledge and
> >> documentation of their own histories, and we saw pretty consistently
> >> that, while not everyone thrived on such diets, quite a few did
> >> spectacularly well on them. Undeniably so.
> >>
> >> This also led me, eventually, to found the Paleolithic Diet Symposium. I
> >> don't run it anymore, but the list still occasionally has some
> >> fascinating stuff on it. Most recently, one of the members came up with
> >> this excellent article on why the vegetarian myth simply doesn't work,
> >> and humans have been eating meat for millions of years. For which there
> >> has always been abundant evidence. But this recent evidence adds only
> >> more data to support of it.
> >>
> >> Fact is I was pretty unhealthy as a vegetarian, as was Rosemary. We both
> >> found we couldn't maintain good health without meat in our diets. Of
> >> course, others seem to do well with vegetarianism, and we don't begrudge
> >> them that. But folks who keep insisting that humans did not evolve to eat
> >> meat need to give up this line of reasoning.
> >
> > When did evolution stop for you, Doc? Why do you say that humans evolved
> > *to* eat meat, rather than say we're evolving *from* eating meat?
> >
> > I don't know you or Rosemary, maybe you look like early hominids, but my
> > teeth are smaller and my forehead doesn't slope so much.
>
> but your brain cavity is much smaller, like a cats, cause eating a veggie is
> ez for morons, it takes brains to hunt, kill, skin and process an animal and
> cook and eat it all.


So you hunt all your meat?..............and skin it and process it?

Methinks you are a disingenuous little prick who buys his meat at the
supermarket.


Dr Moria
2006-09-12 18:44:00 EST

"shrubkiller" <shrubkiller@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1158095139.396980.55320@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Dr Moria wrote:
>> "Double O'Malley" <OO@lava.org> wrote in message
>> news:CmlNg.10281$bM.2194@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>> > Dr Moria wrote:
>> >> Meat Is Good For You
>> >>
>> >> A number of years ago, I ran a technically-oriented mailing list for
>> >> low-carbohydrate dieters. Low-carb dieters by necessity eat a lot of
>> >> protein, and while it's not impossible to be a low-carb vegetarian,
>> >> it's
>> >> very difficult. Low-carb veganism is not quite impossible, but very
>> >> close
>> >> to it. Yet we had list members who were physicians, nurses, physical
>> >> trainers, nurses, and smart people who had strong knowledge and
>> >> documentation of their own histories, and we saw pretty consistently
>> >> that, while not everyone thrived on such diets, quite a few did
>> >> spectacularly well on them. Undeniably so.
>> >>
>> >> This also led me, eventually, to found the Paleolithic Diet Symposium.
>> >> I
>> >> don't run it anymore, but the list still occasionally has some
>> >> fascinating stuff on it. Most recently, one of the members came up
>> >> with
>> >> this excellent article on why the vegetarian myth simply doesn't work,
>> >> and humans have been eating meat for millions of years. For which
>> >> there
>> >> has always been abundant evidence. But this recent evidence adds only
>> >> more data to support of it.
>> >>
>> >> Fact is I was pretty unhealthy as a vegetarian, as was Rosemary. We
>> >> both
>> >> found we couldn't maintain good health without meat in our diets. Of
>> >> course, others seem to do well with vegetarianism, and we don't
>> >> begrudge
>> >> them that. But folks who keep insisting that humans did not evolve to
>> >> eat
>> >> meat need to give up this line of reasoning.
>> >
>> > When did evolution stop for you, Doc? Why do you say that humans
>> > evolved
>> > *to* eat meat, rather than say we're evolving *from* eating meat?
>> >
>> > I don't know you or Rosemary, maybe you look like early hominids, but
>> > my
>> > teeth are smaller and my forehead doesn't slope so much.
>>
>> but your brain cavity is much smaller, like a cats, cause eating a veggie
>> is
>> ez for morons, it takes brains to hunt, kill, skin and process an animal
>> and
>> cook and eat it all.
>
>
> So you hunt all your meat?..............and skin it and process it?
>
> Methinks you are a disingenuous little prick who buys his meat at the
> supermarket.
>

I kill, skin and eat anything with a face on it, except for humans where it
is illegal.

you sound like you live on a diet of cabbage juice, have the runs all the
time, a large hamburger double cheese with bacon extra mayo will plug you
right up.



Double O'Malley
2006-09-13 19:39:41 EST
Dr Moria wrote:
> "Double O'Malley" <OO@lava.org> wrote in message
>>Dr Moria wrote:

>>I don't know you or Rosemary, maybe you look like early hominids, but my
>>teeth are smaller and my forehead doesn't slope so much.
>
>
> but your brain cavity is much smaller, like a cats, cause eating a veggie is
> ez for morons, it takes brains to hunt, kill, skin and process an animal and
> cook and eat it all.

And your example of a vegetarian moron is a... cat.

Double O'Malley
2006-09-13 19:49:46 EST
Dr Moria wrote:

>>>>>Fact is I was pretty unhealthy as a vegetarian, as was Rosemary.
...
> I kill, skin and eat anything with a face on it, except for humans where it
> is illegal.

Vegetarian wasn't working, so you went for cannibal. Um, okay.

<rolls eyes>
Page: 1 2 3   Next  (First | Last)


2020 - UsenetArchives.com | Contact Us | Privacy | Stats | Site Search
Become our Patron