Vegetarian Discussion: Zen And Vegetarianism

Zen And Vegetarianism
Posts: 325

Report Abuse

Use this form to report abuse or request takedown.
The requests are usually processed within 48 hours.

Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11   Next  (First | Last)

NYC XYZ
2006-08-31 22:54:32 EST
Was the Buddha a vegetarian?

Is even milk and eggs considered un-Buddhist?

I just eat, but I'd almost certainly never slaughter the animal myself.
When I think about it, I really can't justify being a carnivore. If
it were easier, I'd probably give it up in fairly quick order.

Do they eat meat at Zen monasteries?

Just curious.

I'm almost certain I will be a vegeatarian one day -- the kind that
still takes diary products (where's the harm in milk?). If I think at
all about animals being slaughtered, well, I don't lose my appetite,
but I do feel intellectually frustrated that yet one more thing in life
seems so non-sensical! But salads are sooooooooooo boring....

Good God, best not to think about it at all...I really need to relax,
man!


Sphere
2006-08-31 23:47:17 EST

NYC XYZ wrote:
> Was the Buddha a vegetarian?

No. Devadatta tried to make the Sangha
vegetarian and Buddha rejected the suggestion.

>
> Is even milk and eggs considered un-Buddhist?
>
> I just eat, but I'd almost certainly never slaughter the animal myself.

In the 'primative' Sangha the Arhats were instructed
not to eat meat they knew was specifically slaughtered
for their consumption -- but they were to eat meat
which was provided in their daily alms rounds.

In many parts of the world -- such as Tibet -- being
vegetarian equalled being dead.


> When I think about it, I really can't justify being a carnivore. If
> it were easier, I'd probably give it up in fairly quick order.
>
> Do they eat meat at Zen monasteries?
>
> Just curious.
>
> I'm almost certain I will be a vegeatarian one day -- the kind that
> still takes diary products (where's the harm in milk?). If I think at
> all about animals being slaughtered, well, I don't lose my appetite,
> but I do feel intellectually frustrated that yet one more thing in life
> seems so non-sensical! But salads are sooooooooooo boring....
>
> Good God, best not to think about it at all...I really need to relax,
> man!

I personally don't see any moral distinction between
eating animals and eating plants. Both are composed of
cells, and cells are sentient. Killing is unfortunate and
to be avoided as far as possible, but it is also unavoidable.
---
No essence. No permanence. No perfection. Only action.

P.S. Deva is Pali for god, and atta is Pali for Self. Devadatta
looks suspiciously like "god self" to me...


2006-09-01 08:38:40 EST

NYC XYZ wrote:
> Was the Buddha a vegetarian?

Not really.

> Is even milk and eggs considered un-Buddhist?

No.

> I just eat, but I'd almost certainly never slaughter the animal myself.
> When I think about it, I really can't justify being a carnivore. If
> it were easier, I'd probably give it up in fairly quick order.

You are a carnivore, actually an omnivore, regardless of what you
choose to eat. Even so-called vegetarians are omnivores, unless they
have found some way of altering their DNA.

> Do they eat meat at Zen monasteries?

Well I'm sure it varies. The place where I go has the occasional
option to eat something that contains meat, which is usually Sundays
when they invite the community to the service and lunch afterwards.
Seems like they always have pasta on sundays and you have a choice of
meat sauce.

> Just curious.
>
> I'm almost certain I will be a vegeatarian one day -- the kind that
> still takes diary products (where's the harm in milk?). If I think at
> all about animals being slaughtered, well, I don't lose my appetite,
> but I do feel intellectually frustrated that yet one more thing in life
> seems so non-sensical! But salads are sooooooooooo boring....

Healthy vegetarianism is good if you can afford it. A lot of
vegetarians eat a lot of starches and crappy processed foods and are
undernourished and slightly ill most of the time. Most of them are
frauds. I'm convinced that a proper, healthy vegetarian diet is out of
my budget and not very practical, unless I want to eat beans and rice 4
times a week. WRT to milk, I always drink soy milk, as I'm a bit
lactose intolerant, plus I just like the stuff better. It is of
course, more expensive.

I have been staying with my mother for awhile who pretty much insists
on feeding me, with which I can't argue, as she is a mom and that's
what they do. Her cooking, while fantastic, is very meat oriented and
I am getting fat. I am looking forward to getting back on my own in
October. My strategy is to replace at least 2 or 3 meat meals a week
with fish, and start to seek out other non meat sources of protien, but
I can't see ever going vegetarian completely.

For ethical reasons you can also check into free-range, but even that
is questionable. I know of a free-range "farm" where chickens are kept
in cages and allowed, once a week, when a door swings open, to roam in
a tiny little yard outside the barn. Thing is, when the door swings
open, they just sit there wanting nothing to do with the Big Scary
Outside. This may be an extreme example but disconcerting nonetheless.


> Good God, best not to think about it at all...I really need to relax,
> man!

I would say instead of worrying about what you are eating, pay
attention to your attitude about eating. Try and be mindful and
grateful for it instead of fretting about whether you are violating
some ethical standard. Eating is easily taken for granted when you can
do it all day. But life will always feed on life whether it's an animal
or plant. It's conservation. It's just how it is.

-DaveK


2006-09-01 09:13:52 EST

d*s@yahoo.com wrote:
> NYC XYZ wrote:
> > Was the Buddha a vegetarian?
>
> Not really.
>
> > Is even milk and eggs considered un-Buddhist?
>
> No.
>
> > I just eat, but I'd almost certainly never slaughter the animal myself.
> > When I think about it, I really can't justify being a carnivore. If
> > it were easier, I'd probably give it up in fairly quick order.
>
> You are a carnivore, actually an omnivore, regardless of what you
> choose to eat. Even so-called vegetarians are omnivores, unless they
> have found some way of altering their DNA.
>
> > Do they eat meat at Zen monasteries?
>
> Well I'm sure it varies. The place where I go has the occasional
> option to eat something that contains meat, which is usually Sundays
> when they invite the community to the service and lunch afterwards.
> Seems like they always have pasta on sundays and you have a choice of
> meat sauce.
>
> > Just curious.
> >
> > I'm almost certain I will be a vegeatarian one day -- the kind that
> > still takes diary products (where's the harm in milk?). If I think at
> > all about animals being slaughtered, well, I don't lose my appetite,
> > but I do feel intellectually frustrated that yet one more thing in life
> > seems so non-sensical! But salads are sooooooooooo boring....
>
> Healthy vegetarianism is good if you can afford it. A lot of
> vegetarians eat a lot of starches and crappy processed foods and are
> undernourished and slightly ill most of the time. Most of them are
> frauds. I'm convinced that a proper, healthy vegetarian diet is out of
> my budget and not very practical, unless I want to eat beans and rice 4
> times a week. WRT to milk, I always drink soy milk, as I'm a bit
> lactose intolerant, plus I just like the stuff better. It is of
> course, more expensive.
>
> I have been staying with my mother for awhile who pretty much insists
> on feeding me, with which I can't argue, as she is a mom and that's
> what they do. Her cooking, while fantastic, is very meat oriented and
> I am getting fat. I am looking forward to getting back on my own in
> October. My strategy is to replace at least 2 or 3 meat meals a week
> with fish, and start to seek out other non meat sources of protien, but
> I can't see ever going vegetarian completely.
>
> For ethical reasons you can also check into free-range, but even that
> is questionable. I know of a free-range "farm" where chickens are kept
> in cages and allowed, once a week, when a door swings open, to roam in
> a tiny little yard outside the barn. Thing is, when the door swings
> open, they just sit there wanting nothing to do with the Big Scary
> Outside. This may be an extreme example but disconcerting nonetheless.
>
>
> > Good God, best not to think about it at all...I really need to relax,
> > man!
>
> I would say instead of worrying about what you are eating, pay
> attention to your attitude about eating. Try and be mindful and
> grateful for it instead of fretting about whether you are violating
> some ethical standard. Eating is easily taken for granted when you can
> do it all day. But life will always feed on life whether it's an animal
> or plant. It's conservation. It's just how it is.
>
> -DaveK

BTW, this might be worth looking into. I haven't bought it yet:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0892819383/qid=1137254054/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/104-0541359-0991950?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

It's recipes based in the Ayurvedic tradition. One of my best friends
is a yoga practitioner who has told me again and again about how
practical the ayurvedic diet is and now swears by it. Somebody from
the Yoga newsgroup recommended this book to me. Looking upon yogis as
our spiritual relatives in the zen tradition I think it is wise to
consider they might have something here.


Brother
2006-09-01 09:52:05 EST
Sphere wrote:
> NYC XYZ wrote:
>> Was the Buddha a vegetarian?
>
> No. Devadatta tried to make the Sangha
> vegetarian and Buddha rejected the suggestion.
>
>> Is even milk and eggs considered un-Buddhist?
>>
>> I just eat, but I'd almost certainly never slaughter the animal myself.
>
> In the 'primative' Sangha the Arhats were instructed
> not to eat meat they knew was specifically slaughtered
> for their consumption -- but they were to eat meat
> which was provided in their daily alms rounds.
>
> In many parts of the world -- such as Tibet -- being
> vegetarian equalled being dead.
>
>
>> When I think about it, I really can't justify being a carnivore. If
>> it were easier, I'd probably give it up in fairly quick order.
>>
>> Do they eat meat at Zen monasteries?
>>
>> Just curious.
>>
>> I'm almost certain I will be a vegeatarian one day -- the kind that
>> still takes diary products (where's the harm in milk?). If I think at
>> all about animals being slaughtered, well, I don't lose my appetite,
>> but I do feel intellectually frustrated that yet one more thing in life
>> seems so non-sensical! But salads are sooooooooooo boring....
>>
>> Good God, best not to think about it at all...I really need to relax,
>> man!
>
> I personally don't see any moral distinction between
> eating animals and eating plants. Both are composed of
> cells, and cells are sentient. Killing is unfortunate and
> to be avoided as far as possible, but it is also unavoidable.

I can excuse ignorance, but stupidity annoys me.

CELLS are NOT sentient!

Plants are not capable of consciousness, and therefore unable to be
sentient.

I think you've made a rule to suit your particular existing dietary
wants. - Moral and intellectual laziness.


> ---
> No essence. No permanence. No perfection. Only action.
>
> P.S. Deva is Pali for god, and atta is Pali for Self. Devadatta
> looks suspiciously like "god self" to me...
>

Evelyn Ruut
2006-09-01 09:52:47 EST


"brother" <see@you.move.com> wrote in message
news:4lqs7aF37uljU1@individual.net...
> Sphere wrote:
>> NYC XYZ wrote:
>>> Was the Buddha a vegetarian?
>>
>> No. Devadatta tried to make the Sangha
>> vegetarian and Buddha rejected the suggestion.
>>
>>> Is even milk and eggs considered un-Buddhist?
>>>
>>> I just eat, but I'd almost certainly never slaughter the animal myself.
>>
>> In the 'primative' Sangha the Arhats were instructed
>> not to eat meat they knew was specifically slaughtered
>> for their consumption -- but they were to eat meat
>> which was provided in their daily alms rounds.
>>
>> In many parts of the world -- such as Tibet -- being
>> vegetarian equalled being dead.
>>
>>
>>> When I think about it, I really can't justify being a carnivore. If
>>> it were easier, I'd probably give it up in fairly quick order.
>>>
>>> Do they eat meat at Zen monasteries?
>>>
>>> Just curious.
>>>
>>> I'm almost certain I will be a vegeatarian one day -- the kind that
>>> still takes diary products (where's the harm in milk?). If I think at
>>> all about animals being slaughtered, well, I don't lose my appetite,
>>> but I do feel intellectually frustrated that yet one more thing in life
>>> seems so non-sensical! But salads are sooooooooooo boring....
>>>
>>> Good God, best not to think about it at all...I really need to relax,
>>> man!
>>
>> I personally don't see any moral distinction between
>> eating animals and eating plants. Both are composed of
>> cells, and cells are sentient. Killing is unfortunate and
>> to be avoided as far as possible, but it is also unavoidable.
>
> I can excuse ignorance, but stupidity annoys me.
>
> CELLS are NOT sentient!
>
> Plants are not capable of consciousness, and therefore unable to be
> sentient.
>
> I think you've made a rule to suit your particular existing dietary
> wants. - Moral and intellectual laziness.




Have you ever read the book "The Secret Life of Plants?"
--

Best Regards,

Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')




Brother
2006-09-01 09:58:35 EST
Evelyn Ruut wrote:
> "brother" <see@you.move.com> wrote in message
> news:4lqs7aF37uljU1@individual.net...
>> Sphere wrote:
>>> NYC XYZ wrote:
>>>> Was the Buddha a vegetarian?
>>> No. Devadatta tried to make the Sangha
>>> vegetarian and Buddha rejected the suggestion.
>>>
>>>> Is even milk and eggs considered un-Buddhist?
>>>>
>>>> I just eat, but I'd almost certainly never slaughter the animal myself.
>>> In the 'primative' Sangha the Arhats were instructed
>>> not to eat meat they knew was specifically slaughtered
>>> for their consumption -- but they were to eat meat
>>> which was provided in their daily alms rounds.
>>>
>>> In many parts of the world -- such as Tibet -- being
>>> vegetarian equalled being dead.
>>>
>>>
>>>> When I think about it, I really can't justify being a carnivore. If
>>>> it were easier, I'd probably give it up in fairly quick order.
>>>>
>>>> Do they eat meat at Zen monasteries?
>>>>
>>>> Just curious.
>>>>
>>>> I'm almost certain I will be a vegeatarian one day -- the kind that
>>>> still takes diary products (where's the harm in milk?). If I think at
>>>> all about animals being slaughtered, well, I don't lose my appetite,
>>>> but I do feel intellectually frustrated that yet one more thing in life
>>>> seems so non-sensical! But salads are sooooooooooo boring....
>>>>
>>>> Good God, best not to think about it at all...I really need to relax,
>>>> man!
>>> I personally don't see any moral distinction between
>>> eating animals and eating plants. Both are composed of
>>> cells, and cells are sentient. Killing is unfortunate and
>>> to be avoided as far as possible, but it is also unavoidable.
>> I can excuse ignorance, but stupidity annoys me.
>>
>> CELLS are NOT sentient!
>>
>> Plants are not capable of consciousness, and therefore unable to be
>> sentient.
>>
>> I think you've made a rule to suit your particular existing dietary
>> wants. - Moral and intellectual laziness.
>
>
>
>
> Have you ever read the book "The Secret Life of Plants?"

No.


Brother
2006-09-01 10:01:29 EST
brother wrote:
> Evelyn Ruut wrote:
>> "brother" <see@you.move.com> wrote in message
snip
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Have you ever read the book "The Secret Life of Plants?"
>
> No.
>

Just read a review that made me laugh:

"Okay, okay, I wil admit reading this book, but only because I foolishly
thought this book was about plant biology and scientific progress into
plant habitat and their reaction to their environment and to other plant
species. But what I got instead was a book that talks about ESP,
mind-over-matter, Yoga, hynopsis, extra-terrestial plant seeds, and some
very questionable scientific methodology of experiments. There is even a
section of how to become "one with your houseplant"! Consequently, I
felt as if the book's two authors are still stuck in the hippie,
drug-culture of the 60s when they wrote this book. If you even believe
an iota of this book, I recommend Carl Sagan's book The Demon-Haunted
World. For your sanity, avoid this book like the bubonic plague."

Dave K
2006-09-01 10:12:00 EST

brother wrote:
> brother wrote:
> > Evelyn Ruut wrote:
> >> "brother" <see@you.move.com> wrote in message
> snip
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Have you ever read the book "The Secret Life of Plants?"
> >
> > No.
> >
>
> Just read a review that made me laugh:
>
> "Okay, okay, I wil admit reading this book, but only because I foolishly
> thought this book was about plant biology and scientific progress into
> plant habitat and their reaction to their environment and to other plant
> species. But what I got instead was a book that talks about ESP,
> mind-over-matter, Yoga, hynopsis, extra-terrestial plant seeds, and some
> very questionable scientific methodology of experiments. There is even a
> section of how to become "one with your houseplant"! Consequently, I
> felt as if the book's two authors are still stuck in the hippie,
> drug-culture of the 60s when they wrote this book. If you even believe
> an iota of this book, I recommend Carl Sagan's book The Demon-Haunted
> World. For your sanity, avoid this book like the bubonic plague."

I caught my pole bean plant sneaking and swirling up my cherry tomato
plant a couple months ago. Don't tell me it's not up to something!


Evelyn Ruut
2006-09-01 10:13:04 EST

"brother" <see@you.move.com> wrote in message
news:4lqsorF36vqqU2@individual.net...
> brother wrote:
>> Evelyn Ruut wrote:
>>> "brother" <see@you.move.com> wrote in message
> snip
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Have you ever read the book "The Secret Life of Plants?"
>>
>> No.
>>
>
> Just read a review that made me laugh:
>
> "Okay, okay, I wil admit reading this book, but only because I foolishly
> thought this book was about plant biology and scientific progress into
> plant habitat and their reaction to their environment and to other plant
> species. But what I got instead was a book that talks about ESP,
> mind-over-matter, Yoga, hynopsis, extra-terrestial plant seeds, and some
> very questionable scientific methodology of experiments. There is even a
> section of how to become "one with your houseplant"! Consequently, I felt
> as if the book's two authors are still stuck in the hippie, drug-culture
> of the 60s when they wrote this book. If you even believe an iota of this
> book, I recommend Carl Sagan's book The Demon-Haunted World. For your
> sanity, avoid this book like the bubonic plague."


LOL! fanatical vegetarians might have nightmares from reading it though!

--

Best Regards,

Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')


Page: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11   Next  (First | Last)


2020 - UsenetArchives.com | Contact Us | Privacy | Stats | Site Search
Become our Patron