Vegetarian Discussion: Karen Winter's Phony "anarchism"

Karen Winter's Phony "anarchism"
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Leif Erikson
2006-02-15 11:30:18 EST
Karen Winter ('glorfindel' - bleagghhh; sucky
pseudonym) has always maintained she's an "anarchist".
I recognized right away that she is not, as she
supports the forced abolition of animal usage.

It turns out others recognize that she is not, as well,
going quite far back:


Karen Winter, bragging about the son she abandoned:
> Recall that he [Karen's abandoned son] graduated
> from college with an A average and is now a
engineer for
> the U.S. Army (1st Lieutenant)working on waste
water
> reclamation and public health projects. He is
married
> to a female Navy nurse. They are both
practicing Christians,
> as I am. Sounds pretty respectable and
successful to me.


John Mercer, pointing out reality:
I think that if you were a real anarchist, you would
be ashamed of him. But we both know that you're not.


http://groups.google.com/group/talk.politics.animals/msg/73af5e5789046c85?hl=en&


Also in that one, there's an indication that Karen's
gushing endorsement of the notion that four-year-olds
can "choose" to have sex with adults goes much farther
back than I had imagined.

R*@yahoo.com
2006-02-15 18:28:39 EST

Leif Erikson wrote:
> Karen Winter ('glorfindel' - bleagghhh; sucky
> pseudonym) has always maintained she's an "anarchist".
> I recognized right away that she is not, as she
> supports the forced abolition of animal usage.
>

It's not clear that the forced abolition of slavery is inconsistent
with anarchism. So why should the forced abolition of animal usage be
inconsistent with anarchism? Of course, anarchists would have to figure
out a way to enforce it without government. But some forms of anarchism
are consistent with protecting rights.

> It turns out others recognize that she is not, as well,
> going quite far back:
>
>
> Karen Winter, bragging about the son she abandoned:
> > Recall that he [Karen's abandoned son] graduated
> > from college with an A average and is now a
> engineer for
> > the U.S. Army (1st Lieutenant)working on waste
> water
> > reclamation and public health projects. He is
> married
> > to a female Navy nurse. They are both
> practicing Christians,
> > as I am. Sounds pretty respectable and
> successful to me.
>
>
> John Mercer, pointing out reality:
> I think that if you were a real anarchist, you would
> be ashamed of him. But we both know that you're not.
>
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/talk.politics.animals/msg/73af5e5789046c85?hl=en&
>
>
> Also in that one, there's an indication that Karen's
> gushing endorsement of the notion that four-year-olds
> can "choose" to have sex with adults goes much farther
> back than I had imagined.


Ron
2006-02-15 19:23:02 EST

Leif Erikson wrote:
> Karen Winter ('glorfindel' - bleagghhh; sucky
> pseudonym) has always maintained she's an "anarchist".
> I recognized right away that she is not, as she
> supports the forced abolition of animal usage.
>
> It turns out others recognize that she is not, as well,
> going quite far back:
>
>
> Karen Winter, bragging about the son she abandoned:
> > Recall that he [Karen's abandoned son] graduated
> > from college with an A average and is now a
> engineer for
> > the U.S. Army (1st Lieutenant)working on waste
> water
> > reclamation and public health projects. He is
> married
> > to a female Navy nurse. They are both
> practicing Christians,
> > as I am. Sounds pretty respectable and
> successful to me.
>
>
> John Mercer, pointing out reality:
> I think that if you were a real anarchist, you would
> be ashamed of him. But we both know that you're not.
>
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/talk.politics.animals/msg/73af5e5789046c85?hl=en&
>
>
> Also in that one, there's an indication that Karen's
> gushing endorsement of the notion that four-year-olds
> can "choose" to have sex with adults goes much farther
> back than I had imagined.


Goo, what you presented was Mercer claiming Karen endorsed adults
having sex with 4 year old kids.

No where have you clearly shown that Karen endorsed that.

You aren't very good at smearing people Goober. You are too stupid. You
leave too many glaring holes in the story.

Stupid bugger.


Leif Erikson
2006-02-15 19:29:45 EST
crybaby homo pantywaist fudgepacker ronnnnnnnie hamilton screamed:
> Leif Erikson wrote:
> > Karen Winter ('glorfindel' - bleagghhh; sucky
> > pseudonym) has always maintained she's an "anarchist".
> > I recognized right away that she is not, as she
> > supports the forced abolition of animal usage.
> >
> > It turns out others recognize that she is not, as well,
> > going quite far back:
> >
> >
> > Karen Winter, bragging about the son she abandoned:
> > > Recall that he [Karen's abandoned son] graduated
> > > from college with an A average and is now a
> > engineer for
> > > the U.S. Army (1st Lieutenant)working on waste
> > water
> > > reclamation and public health projects. He is
> > married
> > > to a female Navy nurse. They are both
> > practicing Christians,
> > > as I am. Sounds pretty respectable and
> > successful to me.
> >
> >
> > John Mercer, pointing out reality:
> > I think that if you were a real anarchist, you would
> > be ashamed of him. But we both know that you're not.
> >
> >
> > http://groups.google.com/group/talk.politics.animals/msg/73af5e5789046c85?hl=en&
> >
> >
> > Also in that one, there's an indication that Karen's
> > gushing endorsement of the notion that four-year-olds
> > can "choose" to have sex with adults goes much farther
> > back than I had imagined.
>
>
> Leif, what you presented was Mercer claiming Karen endorsed adults
> having sex with 4 year old kids.

No, I pointed out John Mercer criticizing Karen's phony claim of being
an "anarchist".


>
> No where have you clearly shown that Karen endorsed that.

Been done many times, ronnnnnnnnie.

You seem to forget that Derek Nash got Karen chased out of her church
of the issue <snicker>. That was a great one!


Ron
2006-02-15 19:35:46 EST

Leif Erikson wrote:
> crybaby homo pantywaist fudgepacker ronnnnnnnie hamilton screamed:
> > Leif Erikson wrote:
> > > Karen Winter ('glorfindel' - bleagghhh; sucky
> > > pseudonym) has always maintained she's an "anarchist".
> > > I recognized right away that she is not, as she
> > > supports the forced abolition of animal usage.
> > >
> > > It turns out others recognize that she is not, as well,
> > > going quite far back:
> > >
> > >
> > > Karen Winter, bragging about the son she abandoned:
> > > > Recall that he [Karen's abandoned son] graduated
> > > > from college with an A average and is now a
> > > engineer for
> > > > the U.S. Army (1st Lieutenant)working on waste
> > > water
> > > > reclamation and public health projects. He is
> > > married
> > > > to a female Navy nurse. They are both
> > > practicing Christians,
> > > > as I am. Sounds pretty respectable and
> > > successful to me.
> > >
> > >
> > > John Mercer, pointing out reality:
> > > I think that if you were a real anarchist, you would
> > > be ashamed of him. But we both know that you're not.
> > >
> > >
> > > http://groups.google.com/group/talk.politics.animals/msg/73af5e5789046c85?hl=en&
> > >
> > >
> > > Also in that one, there's an indication that Karen's
> > > gushing endorsement of the notion that four-year-olds
> > > can "choose" to have sex with adults goes much farther
> > > back than I had imagined.
> >
> >
> > Leif, what you presented was Mercer claiming Karen endorsed adults
> > having sex with 4 year old kids.
>
> No, I pointed out John Mercer criticizing Karen's phony claim of being
> an "anarchist".
>
>
> >
> > No where have you clearly shown that Karen endorsed that.
>
> Been done many times, ronnnnnnnnie.



Do it one more time ~jonnie~...........just so we can say "well for
once ~jonnie~ didn't LIE."

Can you do that for us ~jonnie~?




>
> You seem to forget that Derek Nash got Karen chased out of her church
> of the issue <snicker>. That was a great one!



I didn't forget. That wasn't something I knew anything about.


Ron
2006-02-15 19:55:00 EST

Leif Erikson wrote:
> crybaby homo pantywaist fudgepacker ronnnnnnnie hamilton screamed:
> > Leif Erikson wrote:
> > > Karen Winter ('glorfindel' - bleagghhh; sucky
> > > pseudonym) has always maintained she's an "anarchist".
> > > I recognized right away that she is not, as she
> > > supports the forced abolition of animal usage.
> > >
> > > It turns out others recognize that she is not, as well,
> > > going quite far back:
> > >
> > >
> > > Karen Winter, bragging about the son she abandoned:
> > > > Recall that he [Karen's abandoned son] graduated
> > > > from college with an A average and is now a
> > > engineer for
> > > > the U.S. Army (1st Lieutenant)working on waste
> > > water
> > > > reclamation and public health projects. He is
> > > married
> > > > to a female Navy nurse. They are both
> > > practicing Christians,
> > > > as I am. Sounds pretty respectable and
> > > successful to me.
> > >
> > >
> > > John Mercer, pointing out reality:
> > > I think that if you were a real anarchist, you would
> > > be ashamed of him. But we both know that you're not.
> > >
> > >
> > > http://groups.google.com/group/talk.politics.animals/msg/73af5e5789046c85?hl=en&
> > >
> > >
> > > Also in that one, there's an indication that Karen's
> > > gushing endorsement of the notion that four-year-olds
> > > can "choose" to have sex with adults goes much farther
> > > back than I had imagined.
> >
> >
> > Leif, what you presented was Mercer claiming Karen endorsed adults
> > having sex with 4 year old kids.
>
> No, I pointed out John Mercer criticizing Karen's phony claim of being
> an "anarchist".
>
>
> >
> > No where have you clearly shown that Karen endorsed that.
>
> Been done many times, ronnnnnnnnie.



C'mon ~jonnie~. We're waiting for you to show when and where Karen
endorsed that.

IMHO, you answered far to quickly and with too much civility which
means you were lying and have NO proof.

Stupid bugger.








>
> You seem to forget that Derek Nash got Karen chased out of her church
> of the issue <snicker>. That was a great one!


Leif Erikson
2006-02-17 17:02:56 EST
crybaby homo pantywaist fudgepacker ronnnnnnnie hamilton screamed:
> Leif Erikson wrote:
> > crybaby homo pantywaist fudgepacker ronnnnnnnie hamilton screamed:
> > > Leif Erikson wrote:
> > > > Karen Winter ('glorfindel' - bleagghhh; sucky
> > > > pseudonym) has always maintained she's an "anarchist".
> > > > I recognized right away that she is not, as she
> > > > supports the forced abolition of animal usage.
> > > >
> > > > It turns out others recognize that she is not, as well,
> > > > going quite far back:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Karen Winter, bragging about the son she abandoned:
> > > > > Recall that he [Karen's abandoned son] graduated
> > > > > from college with an A average and is now a
> > > > engineer for
> > > > > the U.S. Army (1st Lieutenant)working on waste
> > > > water
> > > > > reclamation and public health projects. He is
> > > > married
> > > > > to a female Navy nurse. They are both
> > > > practicing Christians,
> > > > > as I am. Sounds pretty respectable and
> > > > successful to me.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > John Mercer, pointing out reality:
> > > > I think that if you were a real anarchist, you would
> > > > be ashamed of him. But we both know that you're not.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > http://groups.google.com/group/talk.politics.animals/msg/73af5e5789046c85?hl=en&
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Also in that one, there's an indication that Karen's
> > > > gushing endorsement of the notion that four-year-olds
> > > > can "choose" to have sex with adults goes much farther
> > > > back than I had imagined.
> > >
> > >
> > > Leif, what you presented was Mercer claiming Karen endorsed adults
> > > having sex with 4 year old kids.
> >
> > No, I pointed out John Mercer criticizing Karen's phony claim of being
> > an "anarchist".
> >
> >
> > >
> > > No where have you clearly shown that Karen endorsed that.
> >
> > Been done many times, ronnnnnnnnie.
>
>
>
> Do it one more time ~jonnie~...........just so we can say "well for
> once ~jonnie~ didn't LIE."
>
> Can you do that for us ~jonnie~?
>
>
>
>
> >
> > You seem to forget that Derek Nash got Karen chased out of her church
> > of the issue <snicker>. That was a great one!
>
>
>
> I didn't forget. That wasn't something I knew anything about.

Bullshit. But just to refresh your memory...

Derek sent the rector of the church in Santa Fe that Karen and Sylvia
used to attend <snicker> a comprehensive history of Karen's support for
pedophiles and zoophiles, prominently featuring Karen's infamous quote
about being happy to let her (then small) son associate with the
"responsible" pedophiles she knew. This led to Karen's and Sylvia's
expulsion from their church. It was hilarious; also great.


Shrubkiller
2006-02-18 12:58:58 EST

Leif Erikson wrote:
> crybaby homo pantywaist fudgepacker ronnnnnnnie hamilton screamed:
> > Leif Erikson wrote:
> > > crybaby homo pantywaist fudgepacker ronnnnnnnie hamilton screamed:
> > > > Leif Erikson wrote:
> > > > > Karen Winter ('glorfindel' - bleagghhh; sucky
> > > > > pseudonym) has always maintained she's an "anarchist".
> > > > > I recognized right away that she is not, as she
> > > > > supports the forced abolition of animal usage.
> > > > >
> > > > > It turns out others recognize that she is not, as well,
> > > > > going quite far back:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Karen Winter, bragging about the son she abandoned:
> > > > > > Recall that he [Karen's abandoned son] graduated
> > > > > > from college with an A average and is now a
> > > > > engineer for
> > > > > > the U.S. Army (1st Lieutenant)working on waste
> > > > > water
> > > > > > reclamation and public health projects. He is
> > > > > married
> > > > > > to a female Navy nurse. They are both
> > > > > practicing Christians,
> > > > > > as I am. Sounds pretty respectable and
> > > > > successful to me.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > John Mercer, pointing out reality:
> > > > > I think that if you were a real anarchist, you would
> > > > > be ashamed of him. But we both know that you're not.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > http://groups.google.com/group/talk.politics.animals/msg/73af5e5789046c85?hl=en&
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Also in that one, there's an indication that Karen's
> > > > > gushing endorsement of the notion that four-year-olds
> > > > > can "choose" to have sex with adults goes much farther
> > > > > back than I had imagined.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Leif, what you presented was Mercer claiming Karen endorsed adults
> > > > having sex with 4 year old kids.
> > >
> > > No, I pointed out John Mercer criticizing Karen's phony claim of being
> > > an "anarchist".
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > No where have you clearly shown that Karen endorsed that.
> > >
> > > Been done many times, ronnnnnnnnie.
> >
> >
> >
> > Do it one more time ~jonnie~...........just so we can say "well for
> > once ~jonnie~ didn't LIE."
> >
> > Can you do that for us ~jonnie~?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > You seem to forget that Derek Nash got Karen chased out of her church
> > > of the issue <snicker>. That was a great one!
> >
> >
> >
> > I didn't forget. That wasn't something I knew anything about.
>
> Bullshit. But just to refresh your memory...
>
> Derek sent the rector of the church in Santa Fe that Karen and Sylvia
> used to attend <snicker> a comprehensive history of Karen's support for
> pedophiles and zoophiles, prominently featuring Karen's infamous quote
> about being happy to let her (then small) son associate with the
> "responsible" pedophiles she knew. This led to Karen's and Sylvia's
> expulsion from their church. It was hilarious; also great.


..........and we're to take the word of a known LIAR on this?


Derek
2006-02-18 13:27:40 EST
On 18 Feb 2006 09:58:58 -0800, "shrubkiller" <shrubkiller@excite.com> wrote:
>Leif Erikson wrote:
>> crybaby homo pantywaist fudgepacker ronnnnnnnie hamilton screamed:
>> > Leif Erikson wrote:
[..]
>> > > You seem to forget that Derek Nash got Karen chased out of her church
>> > > of the issue <snicker>. That was a great one!
>> >
>> > I didn't forget. That wasn't something I knew anything about.
>>
>> Bullshit. But just to refresh your memory...
>>
>> Derek sent the rector of the church in Santa Fe that Karen and Sylvia
>> used to attend <snicker> a comprehensive history of Karen's support for
>> pedophiles and zoophiles, prominently featuring Karen's infamous quote
>> about being happy to let her (then small) son associate with the
>> "responsible" pedophiles she knew. This led to Karen's and Sylvia's
>> expulsion from their church. It was hilarious; also great.
>
>..........and we're to take the word of a known LIAR on this?

Here below is the letter I wrote which Jon is referring to;

[start]
Dear Sir,
I would like to express my concerns and draw
your attention to two members of your Lay Pastoral
Care Committee ("Bede's Backers"), Karen Winter
and Sylvia Stevens. Both are regular contributors to
on-line newsgroups where various issues are raised,
not least paedophilia and children. Karen posts under
the pseudonym "Rat" while Sylvia posts under the
pseudonym "Swan." Confusingly, they sometimes post
under the joint-pseudonym "Rat & Swan." During the
years both have expressed their views openly and
are a matter of public record found in Google archives.

Evidence from those archives show that Karen openly
supports and promotes paedophilia, portraying those
who menace children for sex as loving, caring and
responsible members of a society while at the same
time attacking children as sinful.

"The supposed "innocence" of children is a myth
only believed by those who either have never
known a child, or willfully close their eyes.
Children are capable of every sin there is."
http://tinyurl.com/2xn8o

She strenuously believes paedophiles "love" their victims
and are responsible as well as caring.

"Laws are not the answer; love is the answer. And
sometimes that love is provided by caring and
responsible pedophiles or ephebophiles. OTOH,
sometimes it's just a quick jerk-off or blowjob,
and if people didn't make a big deal out of it, it
wouldn't be significant at all."
http://tinyurl.com/2xn8o

That they should "work in professions where they come
in contact with children."

"You just don't get it, do you? Pedophiles don't hate
children -- they like them, enjoy being with them,
love them both as sexual partners and as companions.
A child-hating pedophile is a contradiction in terms.
Many pedophiles and ephebophiles work in
professions where they come in contact with children,
and are excellent in those fields because they understand
and like children, and can relate to them well on a
one-to-one basis."
http://tinyurl.com/2l79z

In fact, she would have had no hesitation in letting her son
associate with paedophiles of whom she hardly knows.

"I would have had no hesitation in letting my
son associate with the responsible pedophiles
I met."
http://snipurl.com/4aej

These quotes concern me and beg the question whether
she may in fact be in contact with children while working
as a member for "Bede's Backers", and whether she
actually poses a threat to them. My concerns are;

1) There's no doubt she is very misguided over a child's ability to sin.
2) She's misguided to believe a child can give *meaningful* consent to sex.
3) She promotes paedophiles as loving, caring and responsible people.
4) She advocates they be employed around children.
5) She would have no hesitation in letting children in her care
associate with them.

Whether she's an active paedophile is something I'm not
certain of, but I am concerned that her moral position on
the issue is a potential threat within your church in that it
may enable active paedophiles access to the children
entrusted to you.

Karen's partner, Sylvia Stevens is also of great concern to me,
and once again Google archives demonstrate my concerns;

"Do I hate kids? Yes!"
Swan, Date: 2000/04/09
http://tinyurl.com/2f3wx

"Get this loud and get this clear, I HATE
CHILDREN. I hate YOUR children, I hate
THEIR children, I hate every shitstain, every
whine, squeal, drool, dribble and quiver of the
little maggotty flesh loaves, ARE WE CLEAR
ON THAT?!"
Swan, Date: 2000/02/12
http://snipurl.com/4ae8

If these two women (this cheerful little army) are still working
as part of your Lay Pastoral Care Committee,

[Lay Pastoral Care Committee ("Bede's Backers")
If you're ill, going into or coming out of the hospital,
or just need some temporary practical help in a time
of devastation or turmoil, this cheerful little army
can help.
Karen Winter and Sylvia Stevens]
http://www.stbedesantafe.org/community.html

wouldn't it be wise that they be kept from children, or
that the parents of any children they come into contact
with while working for your church be warned of their
views on paedophilia and children generally?

Derek Nash.
[end]
ipse dixit (me) Apr 23 2004 http://tinyurl.com/c4jo4

That letter drove her out of her parish, as she clearly states below;

"Derek made a threat against me and carried it out. I made no
response to his action, and will not. I want only to be left alone.
He's correct that he drove me out of my former parish. I forgive
him for that, and have done nothing in response, nor will I do
anything in response. I only want to be left alone"
Karen as Cynomis Jan 27 2005 http://tinyurl.com/bhp9y
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