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EATING WITH A CONSCIENCE
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Dr. Jai Maharaj
2005-11-30 23:22:23 EST
EATING WITH A CONSCIENCE

[ Subject: Eating with a conscience
[ From: Fidyl
[ Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005

Eating with a conscience

By Sage Lorene Sheldon

http://eartheasy.com/article_eating_conscience.htm

There are many reasons to become a vegetarian or vegan.
They include personal heath, animal cruelty,
environmental devastation, waste of precious resources,
pollution and global warming.

Forty percent of America's beef is imported from land
that once was home to vital rainforest life. Rainforests
continue to be slashed and burned to clear land for
cattle grazing. Thirty-eight percent of the world's grain
is used to feed livestock, enough to feed 400 million
people on a vegetarian diet. The world's oil reserves
would last 260 years if humans ceased to eat meat.
Livestock production uses over 50% of US water, creates
158 million tons of waste per year, and is the number one
cause of water pollution. This industry pollutes more
than all cities and industries combined. Grazing on
American soil leads to more and more land degradation and
erosion. Ranchers hunt and destroy any possible predators
that have been pushed off ranching land rather than risk
the loss of one steer. Precious aquifers are being
depleted at incredibly fast rates to raise high water
crops to feed cattle. Once these aquifers are gone, the
land above them will basically become American desert.

The ancient druids believed humans were meant to eat only
things that reached for the sun; hence they ate only
plant life. Leo Tolstoy said the first step to a
righteous life was to cease injury to animals. Gandhi
looked upon animal life as just as precious as human life
and was unwilling to take the life of an animal. A Hindu
poem claims that for one to have health, a long life,
physical strength and moral strength, one should refrain
from eating animal. Leonardo da Vinci believed that a day
would come when humans would see no difference between
the murder of animals and the murder of a human. Albert
Einstein felt that nothing would help mankind more in
health and survival than living on a vegetarian diet.

It seems there is an innate reluctance in humans to
deprive themselves of anything. Those who eat meat
believe that they like it or perhaps even that they need
it. Hence, to cease eating animals would be a deprivation
in their eyes. I once thought so too, until I realized
just how much of a difference I could make in this world
by ceasing to eat animal products. Soon after becoming a
vegan, a new world opened to me. Instead of feeling
deprived I had more food choices than ever before. For
any animal dish one likes there is a healthier and often
better tasting vegan dish to replace it. In a very short
period of time I no longer had any desire to eat animal
products. My suggestion to those with an overwhelming
reluctance to switch to a vegetarian diet is to try it
for a couple of weeks and then reevaluate yourself and
your views. Perhaps another thing that adds to an
aversion to going vegetarian is the fear that it will be
difficult and time consuming. In truth I did not find it
difficult amidst a busy life. Any questions or fears one
has can be answered with a small bit of research.
Millions of people are vegetarian and there is plenty of
easy access information. You learn easily as you go what
works for you and how simple it is to get all of your
body's needed nutrients.

I don't think we fully realize how much power we have as
consumers, nor how much impact we have on our future and
the world. I cannot understand how we can continue to
engage in a diet we don't need that results in suffering
and painful deaths to animals, destroys the land that
supports our lives, pollutes the air we breathe and
pollutes the water we drink. Switching to a vegetarian
diet is not difficult, and I have never felt better in my
whole life. I have more energy, more clarity of mind; I'm
doing better in college, and severe stomach problems I
had since a child completely vanished. I have done it not
only for myself, but more importantly, for my greater
self which includes you and all life on Earth. Switching
to a vegetarian diet or at least largely cutting back on
meat eating is one of the easiest ways to take a stand
for your future and for future generations of humans,
animals, trees, and the Earth. I beg only that we think
deeply about our choices and make an effort to act
wisely.

End of forwarded message from:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SignSoFla/

Visit:
http://www.pcrm.org

Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti

Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust

Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org

The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate

The terrorist mission of Jesus stated in the Christian bible:

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not so send
peace, but a sword.
"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the
daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in
law.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
- Matthew 10:34-36.

o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the article.

FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included
information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes by
subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more information
go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes of
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
copyright owner.

Since newsgroup posts are being removed
by forgery by one or more net terrorists,
this post may be reposted several times.

Glugg
2005-12-01 02:36:16 EST

Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
> EATING WITH A CONSCIENCE
>
> [ Subject: Eating with a conscience
> [ From: Fidyl
> [ Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005
>
> Eating with a conscience
>
> By Sage Lorene Sheldon
>
> http://eartheasy.com/article_eating_conscience.htm
>
> There are many reasons to become a vegetarian or vegan.
> They include personal heath, animal cruelty,
> environmental devastation, waste of precious resources,
> pollution and global warming.

Or a pathological hostility towards plants.


T*@hotmail.com
2005-12-01 09:52:39 EST
If vegetarianism is so healthy, why would you need anything else to
convince us to eat that way? But here you go thru great pains to
justify eating vegetarian based on a concientious attitude towards
animals. Unless you know that vegetarianisn is not healthy, then you
have to justify it this way.

Vegetarianism is not healthy. Nor is it even a passably decent culinary
experience.

The fact is that we are primarily carnivorous omnivores. Get used to
the concept of animals giving their lives to sustain ours.

TC

Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
> EATING WITH A CONSCIENCE
>
> [ Subject: Eating with a conscience
> [ From: Fidyl
> [ Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005
>
> Eating with a conscience
>
> By Sage Lorene Sheldon
>
> http://eartheasy.com/article_eating_conscience.htm
>
> There are many reasons to become a vegetarian or vegan.
> They include personal heath, animal cruelty,
> environmental devastation, waste of precious resources,
> pollution and global warming.
>
> Forty percent of America's beef is imported from land
> that once was home to vital rainforest life. Rainforests
> continue to be slashed and burned to clear land for
> cattle grazing. Thirty-eight percent of the world's grain
> is used to feed livestock, enough to feed 400 million
> people on a vegetarian diet. The world's oil reserves
> would last 260 years if humans ceased to eat meat.
> Livestock production uses over 50% of US water, creates
> 158 million tons of waste per year, and is the number one
> cause of water pollution. This industry pollutes more
> than all cities and industries combined. Grazing on
> American soil leads to more and more land degradation and
> erosion. Ranchers hunt and destroy any possible predators
> that have been pushed off ranching land rather than risk
> the loss of one steer. Precious aquifers are being
> depleted at incredibly fast rates to raise high water
> crops to feed cattle. Once these aquifers are gone, the
> land above them will basically become American desert.
>
> The ancient druids believed humans were meant to eat only
> things that reached for the sun; hence they ate only
> plant life. Leo Tolstoy said the first step to a
> righteous life was to cease injury to animals. Gandhi
> looked upon animal life as just as precious as human life
> and was unwilling to take the life of an animal. A Hindu
> poem claims that for one to have health, a long life,
> physical strength and moral strength, one should refrain
> from eating animal. Leonardo da Vinci believed that a day
> would come when humans would see no difference between
> the murder of animals and the murder of a human. Albert
> Einstein felt that nothing would help mankind more in
> health and survival than living on a vegetarian diet.
>
> It seems there is an innate reluctance in humans to
> deprive themselves of anything. Those who eat meat
> believe that they like it or perhaps even that they need
> it. Hence, to cease eating animals would be a deprivation
> in their eyes. I once thought so too, until I realized
> just how much of a difference I could make in this world
> by ceasing to eat animal products. Soon after becoming a
> vegan, a new world opened to me. Instead of feeling
> deprived I had more food choices than ever before. For
> any animal dish one likes there is a healthier and often
> better tasting vegan dish to replace it. In a very short
> period of time I no longer had any desire to eat animal
> products. My suggestion to those with an overwhelming
> reluctance to switch to a vegetarian diet is to try it
> for a couple of weeks and then reevaluate yourself and
> your views. Perhaps another thing that adds to an
> aversion to going vegetarian is the fear that it will be
> difficult and time consuming. In truth I did not find it
> difficult amidst a busy life. Any questions or fears one
> has can be answered with a small bit of research.
> Millions of people are vegetarian and there is plenty of
> easy access information. You learn easily as you go what
> works for you and how simple it is to get all of your
> body's needed nutrients.
>
> I don't think we fully realize how much power we have as
> consumers, nor how much impact we have on our future and
> the world. I cannot understand how we can continue to
> engage in a diet we don't need that results in suffering
> and painful deaths to animals, destroys the land that
> supports our lives, pollutes the air we breathe and
> pollutes the water we drink. Switching to a vegetarian
> diet is not difficult, and I have never felt better in my
> whole life. I have more energy, more clarity of mind; I'm
> doing better in college, and severe stomach problems I
> had since a child completely vanished. I have done it not
> only for myself, but more importantly, for my greater
> self which includes you and all life on Earth. Switching
> to a vegetarian diet or at least largely cutting back on
> meat eating is one of the easiest ways to take a stand
> for your future and for future generations of humans,
> animals, trees, and the Earth. I beg only that we think
> deeply about our choices and make an effort to act
> wisely.
>
> End of forwarded message from:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SignSoFla/
>
> Visit:
> http://www.pcrm.org
>
> Jai Maharaj
> http://www.mantra.com/jai
> Om Shanti
>
> Hindu Holocaust Museum
> http://www.mantra.com/holocaust
>
> Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
> http://www.hindu.org
> http://www.hindunet.org
>
> The truth about Islam and Muslims
> http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate
>
> The terrorist mission of Jesus stated in the Christian bible:
>
> "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not so send
> peace, but a sword.
> "For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the
> daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in
> law.
> "And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
> - Matthew 10:34-36.
>
> o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
> purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not
> have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
> poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
> fair use of copyrighted works.
> o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
> considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current
> e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
> o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are
> not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the article.
>
> FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
> which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
> owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
> understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
> democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is believed
> that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
> provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title
> 17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
> profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included
> information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes by
> subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more information
> go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
> If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes of
> your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
> copyright owner.
>
> Since newsgroup posts are being removed
> by forgery by one or more net terrorists,
> this post may be reposted several times.


Rich
2005-12-01 10:18:30 EST

"Dr. Jai Maharaj" <usenet@mantra.com> wrote in message
news:20051130yUiXA1388ImApi@HyaA...
> EATING WITH A CONSCIENCE
>
> [ Subject: Eating with a conscience
> [ From: Fidyl
> [ Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005
>
> Eating with a conscience
>
> By Sage Lorene Sheldon
>
> http://eartheasy.com/article_eating_conscience.htm
>
> There are many reasons to become a vegetarian or vegan.
> They include personal heath, animal cruelty,
> environmental devastation, waste of precious resources,
> pollution and global warming.
>
> Forty percent of America's beef is imported from land
> that once was home to vital rainforest life. Rainforests
> continue to be slashed and burned to clear land for
> cattle grazing. Thirty-eight percent of the world's grain
> is used to feed livestock, enough to feed 400 million
> people on a vegetarian diet. The world's oil reserves
> would last 260 years if humans ceased to eat meat.
> Livestock production uses over 50% of US water, creates
> 158 million tons of waste per year, and is the number one
> cause of water pollution. This industry pollutes more
> than all cities and industries combined. Grazing on
> American soil leads to more and more land degradation and
> erosion. Ranchers hunt and destroy any possible predators
> that have been pushed off ranching land rather than risk
> the loss of one steer. Precious aquifers are being
> depleted at incredibly fast rates to raise high water
> crops to feed cattle. Once these aquifers are gone, the
> land above them will basically become American desert.
>
> The ancient druids believed humans were meant to eat only
> things that reached for the sun; hence they ate only
> plant life. Leo Tolstoy said the first step to a
> righteous life was to cease injury to animals. Gandhi
> looked upon animal life as just as precious as human life
> and was unwilling to take the life of an animal. A Hindu
> poem claims that for one to have health, a long life,
> physical strength and moral strength, one should refrain
> from eating animal. Leonardo da Vinci believed that a day
> would come when humans would see no difference between
> the murder of animals and the murder of a human. Albert
> Einstein felt that nothing would help mankind more in
> health and survival than living on a vegetarian diet.
>
> It seems there is an innate reluctance in humans to
> deprive themselves of anything. Those who eat meat
> believe that they like it or perhaps even that they need
> it. Hence, to cease eating animals would be a deprivation
> in their eyes. I once thought so too, until I realized
> just how much of a difference I could make in this world
> by ceasing to eat animal products. Soon after becoming a
> vegan, a new world opened to me. Instead of feeling
> deprived I had more food choices than ever before. For
> any animal dish one likes there is a healthier and often
> better tasting vegan dish to replace it. In a very short
> period of time I no longer had any desire to eat animal
> products. My suggestion to those with an overwhelming
> reluctance to switch to a vegetarian diet is to try it
> for a couple of weeks and then reevaluate yourself and
> your views. Perhaps another thing that adds to an
> aversion to going vegetarian is the fear that it will be
> difficult and time consuming. In truth I did not find it
> difficult amidst a busy life. Any questions or fears one
> has can be answered with a small bit of research.
> Millions of people are vegetarian and there is plenty of
> easy access information. You learn easily as you go what
> works for you and how simple it is to get all of your
> body's needed nutrients.
>
> I don't think we fully realize how much power we have as
> consumers, nor how much impact we have on our future and
> the world. I cannot understand how we can continue to
> engage in a diet we don't need that results in suffering
> and painful deaths to animals, destroys the land that
> supports our lives, pollutes the air we breathe and
> pollutes the water we drink. Switching to a vegetarian
> diet is not difficult, and I have never felt better in my
> whole life. I have more energy, more clarity of mind; I'm
> doing better in college, and severe stomach problems I
> had since a child completely vanished. I have done it not
> only for myself, but more importantly, for my greater
> self which includes you and all life on Earth. Switching
> to a vegetarian diet or at least largely cutting back on
> meat eating is one of the easiest ways to take a stand
> for your future and for future generations of humans,
> animals, trees, and the Earth. I beg only that we think
> deeply about our choices and make an effort to act
> wisely.
>

It's interesting that the author of this article is concerned about
predators being pushed off ranching land. It brings up a controversy that is
even more fundamental than the vegetarian/omnivore question. Are humans
really separate from animals? Is it okay for a wolf to eat meat, but not
okay for me to do the same? We ARE animals, whether we like it or not, and
instinct trumps intellect every time. If you chose a vegan diet for
"spiritual" reasons that is your right to freedom of religion. My own belief
is that a carrot has every bit as much consiousness as a chicken, and only
slightly less than a cow, and I have raised and eaten all three. So where do
you draw the line? Is it less moral to kill a turkey than to kill a broccoli
plant? Aren't both killing a living thing? Chickens kill and eat bugs, cows
eat grasses, pigs eat anything, and I, for one, find it comfortable to live
at the top of the food chain where nature put me, and not to have the
audacity to believe myself superior to nature because of my bigger brain. I
notice that dolphins and whales, who have bigger brains, still, have no
compunction against killing to eat either.
--


--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/



Candi Bowen
2005-12-01 12:02:38 EST
So what are you saying, Rich, don't eat? Or eat dirt & rocks? Live off of
sunshine & water? But, wait, that might be alive too. FYI - my pet chicken,
dumb things that they are, has shown multi-tasking abilities & don't jump on
the bandwagon because you haven't seen it. Certainly the carrots in my
garden don't follow me to the front door, jump up & peck on the screen for
attention & petting, ride my horse or put themselves to bed at night,
waiting & clucking softly until I secure the door to protect her from
predators. What I don't understand is why this newsgroup is full of people
who are anti-vegetarian. Don't you have your own newsgroup; don't you have a
life? I don't preach to other people what they should eat & I expect the
same consideration in return.

Candi

> From: "Rich" <joshew@hawaii.rr.com>
> Organization: Road Runner High Speed Online http://www.rr.com
> Newsgroups:
> soc.culture.indian,alt.fan.jai-maharaj,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,misc.heal
> th.alternative,soc.culture.usa
> Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 15:18:30 GMT
> Subject: Re: EATING WITH A CONSCIENCE
>
>
> "Dr. Jai Maharaj" <usenet@mantra.com> wrote in message
> news:20051130yUiXA1388ImApi@HyaA...
>> EATING WITH A CONSCIENCE
>>
>> [ Subject: Eating with a conscience
>> [ From: Fidyl
>> [ Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005
>>
>> Eating with a conscience
>>
>> By Sage Lorene Sheldon
>>
>> http://eartheasy.com/article_eating_conscience.htm
>>
>> There are many reasons to become a vegetarian or vegan.
>> They include personal heath, animal cruelty,
>> environmental devastation, waste of precious resources,
>> pollution and global warming.
>>
>> Forty percent of America's beef is imported from land
>> that once was home to vital rainforest life. Rainforests
>> continue to be slashed and burned to clear land for
>> cattle grazing. Thirty-eight percent of the world's grain
>> is used to feed livestock, enough to feed 400 million
>> people on a vegetarian diet. The world's oil reserves
>> would last 260 years if humans ceased to eat meat.
>> Livestock production uses over 50% of US water, creates
>> 158 million tons of waste per year, and is the number one
>> cause of water pollution. This industry pollutes more
>> than all cities and industries combined. Grazing on
>> American soil leads to more and more land degradation and
>> erosion. Ranchers hunt and destroy any possible predators
>> that have been pushed off ranching land rather than risk
>> the loss of one steer. Precious aquifers are being
>> depleted at incredibly fast rates to raise high water
>> crops to feed cattle. Once these aquifers are gone, the
>> land above them will basically become American desert.
>>
>> The ancient druids believed humans were meant to eat only
>> things that reached for the sun; hence they ate only
>> plant life. Leo Tolstoy said the first step to a
>> righteous life was to cease injury to animals. Gandhi
>> looked upon animal life as just as precious as human life
>> and was unwilling to take the life of an animal. A Hindu
>> poem claims that for one to have health, a long life,
>> physical strength and moral strength, one should refrain
>> from eating animal. Leonardo da Vinci believed that a day
>> would come when humans would see no difference between
>> the murder of animals and the murder of a human. Albert
>> Einstein felt that nothing would help mankind more in
>> health and survival than living on a vegetarian diet.
>>
>> It seems there is an innate reluctance in humans to
>> deprive themselves of anything. Those who eat meat
>> believe that they like it or perhaps even that they need
>> it. Hence, to cease eating animals would be a deprivation
>> in their eyes. I once thought so too, until I realized
>> just how much of a difference I could make in this world
>> by ceasing to eat animal products. Soon after becoming a
>> vegan, a new world opened to me. Instead of feeling
>> deprived I had more food choices than ever before. For
>> any animal dish one likes there is a healthier and often
>> better tasting vegan dish to replace it. In a very short
>> period of time I no longer had any desire to eat animal
>> products. My suggestion to those with an overwhelming
>> reluctance to switch to a vegetarian diet is to try it
>> for a couple of weeks and then reevaluate yourself and
>> your views. Perhaps another thing that adds to an
>> aversion to going vegetarian is the fear that it will be
>> difficult and time consuming. In truth I did not find it
>> difficult amidst a busy life. Any questions or fears one
>> has can be answered with a small bit of research.
>> Millions of people are vegetarian and there is plenty of
>> easy access information. You learn easily as you go what
>> works for you and how simple it is to get all of your
>> body's needed nutrients.
>>
>> I don't think we fully realize how much power we have as
>> consumers, nor how much impact we have on our future and
>> the world. I cannot understand how we can continue to
>> engage in a diet we don't need that results in suffering
>> and painful deaths to animals, destroys the land that
>> supports our lives, pollutes the air we breathe and
>> pollutes the water we drink. Switching to a vegetarian
>> diet is not difficult, and I have never felt better in my
>> whole life. I have more energy, more clarity of mind; I'm
>> doing better in college, and severe stomach problems I
>> had since a child completely vanished. I have done it not
>> only for myself, but more importantly, for my greater
>> self which includes you and all life on Earth. Switching
>> to a vegetarian diet or at least largely cutting back on
>> meat eating is one of the easiest ways to take a stand
>> for your future and for future generations of humans,
>> animals, trees, and the Earth. I beg only that we think
>> deeply about our choices and make an effort to act
>> wisely.
>>
>
> It's interesting that the author of this article is concerned about
> predators being pushed off ranching land. It brings up a controversy that is
> even more fundamental than the vegetarian/omnivore question. Are humans
> really separate from animals? Is it okay for a wolf to eat meat, but not
> okay for me to do the same? We ARE animals, whether we like it or not, and
> instinct trumps intellect every time. If you chose a vegan diet for
> "spiritual" reasons that is your right to freedom of religion. My own belief
> is that a carrot has every bit as much consiousness as a chicken, and only
> slightly less than a cow, and I have raised and eaten all three. So where do
> you draw the line? Is it less moral to kill a turkey than to kill a broccoli
> plant? Aren't both killing a living thing? Chickens kill and eat bugs, cows
> eat grasses, pigs eat anything, and I, for one, find it comfortable to live
> at the top of the food chain where nature put me, and not to have the
> audacity to believe myself superior to nature because of my bigger brain. I
> notice that dolphins and whales, who have bigger brains, still, have no
> compunction against killing to eat either.
> --
>
>
> --Rich
>
> Recommended websites:
>
> http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
> http://www.acahf.org.au
> http://www.quackwatch.org/
> http://www.skeptic.com/
> http://www.csicop.org/
>
>


Rich
2005-12-01 12:14:51 EST

"candi bowen" <reenbow@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
news:BFB49B02.A50%reenbow@neo.rr.com...
> So what are you saying, Rich, don't eat? Or eat dirt & rocks? Live off of
> sunshine & water? But, wait, that might be alive too. FYI - my pet
> chicken,
> dumb things that they are, has shown multi-tasking abilities & don't jump
> on
> the bandwagon because you haven't seen it. Certainly the carrots in my
> garden don't follow me to the front door, jump up & peck on the screen for
> attention & petting, ride my horse or put themselves to bed at night,
> waiting & clucking softly until I secure the door to protect her from
> predators. What I don't understand is why this newsgroup is full of people
> who are anti-vegetarian. Don't you have your own newsgroup; don't you have
> a
> life? I don't preach to other people what they should eat & I expect the
> same consideration in return.
>
> Candi

If you don't preach to others about what they should eat, you are the
exception amonst the vegeterrorists. What am I saying? Just what you said.
Eat what you want, but don't preach at me about my omnivore diet.
--


--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/



Candi Bowen
2005-12-01 12:56:46 EST
Bingo! My family eats meat & I cook it for them; I just choose not to
partake. Partly because of my love of animals but mostly because I have
lupus & research has indicated that eating meat can cause a flare; they
don't know why. May be the protein, may be pesticides, antibiotics, who
knows - research is still up in the air. I don't like extremists on either
end. It's a personal choice. I thought this NG was a place to swap recipes.
Candi

> From: "Rich" <joshew@hawaii.rr.com>
> Organization: Road Runner High Speed Online http://www.rr.com
> Newsgroups:
> soc.culture.indian,alt.fan.jai-maharaj,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,misc.heal
> th.alternative,soc.culture.usa
> Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2005 17:14:51 GMT
> Subject: Re: EATING WITH A CONSCIENCE
>
>
> "candi bowen" <reenbow@neo.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:BFB49B02.A50%reenbow@neo.rr.com...
>> So what are you saying, Rich, don't eat? Or eat dirt & rocks? Live off of
>> sunshine & water? But, wait, that might be alive too. FYI - my pet
>> chicken,
>> dumb things that they are, has shown multi-tasking abilities & don't jump
>> on
>> the bandwagon because you haven't seen it. Certainly the carrots in my
>> garden don't follow me to the front door, jump up & peck on the screen for
>> attention & petting, ride my horse or put themselves to bed at night,
>> waiting & clucking softly until I secure the door to protect her from
>> predators. What I don't understand is why this newsgroup is full of people
>> who are anti-vegetarian. Don't you have your own newsgroup; don't you have
>> a
>> life? I don't preach to other people what they should eat & I expect the
>> same consideration in return.
>>
>> Candi
>
> If you don't preach to others about what they should eat, you are the
> exception amonst the vegeterrorists. What am I saying? Just what you said.
> Eat what you want, but don't preach at me about my omnivore diet.
> --
>
>
> --Rich
>
> Recommended websites:
>
> http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
> http://www.acahf.org.au
> http://www.quackwatch.org/
> http://www.skeptic.com/
> http://www.csicop.org/
>
>


JanD
2005-12-01 13:13:22 EST

"Rich" <joshew@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
news:avEjf.49647$Hs.24868@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>
> "Dr. Jai Maharaj" <usenet@mantra.com> wrote in message
> news:20051130yUiXA1388ImApi@HyaA...
>> EATING WITH A CONSCIENCE
>>
>> [ Subject: Eating with a conscience
>> [ From: Fidyl
>> [ Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005
>>
>> Eating with a conscience
>>
>> By Sage Lorene Sheldon
>>
>> http://eartheasy.com/article_eating_conscience.htm
>>
>> There are many reasons to become a vegetarian or vegan.
>> They include personal heath, animal cruelty,
>> environmental devastation, waste of precious resources,
>> pollution and global warming.
>>
>> Forty percent of America's beef is imported from land
>> that once was home to vital rainforest life. Rainforests
>> continue to be slashed and burned to clear land for
>> cattle grazing. Thirty-eight percent of the world's grain
>> is used to feed livestock, enough to feed 400 million
>> people on a vegetarian diet. The world's oil reserves
>> would last 260 years if humans ceased to eat meat.
>> Livestock production uses over 50% of US water, creates
>> 158 million tons of waste per year, and is the number one
>> cause of water pollution. This industry pollutes more
>> than all cities and industries combined. Grazing on
>> American soil leads to more and more land degradation and
>> erosion. Ranchers hunt and destroy any possible predators
>> that have been pushed off ranching land rather than risk
>> the loss of one steer. Precious aquifers are being
>> depleted at incredibly fast rates to raise high water
>> crops to feed cattle. Once these aquifers are gone, the
>> land above them will basically become American desert.
>>
>> The ancient druids believed humans were meant to eat only
>> things that reached for the sun; hence they ate only
>> plant life. Leo Tolstoy said the first step to a
>> righteous life was to cease injury to animals. Gandhi
>> looked upon animal life as just as precious as human life
>> and was unwilling to take the life of an animal. A Hindu
>> poem claims that for one to have health, a long life,
>> physical strength and moral strength, one should refrain
>> from eating animal. Leonardo da Vinci believed that a day
>> would come when humans would see no difference between
>> the murder of animals and the murder of a human. Albert
>> Einstein felt that nothing would help mankind more in
>> health and survival than living on a vegetarian diet.
>>
>> It seems there is an innate reluctance in humans to
>> deprive themselves of anything. Those who eat meat
>> believe that they like it or perhaps even that they need
>> it. Hence, to cease eating animals would be a deprivation
>> in their eyes. I once thought so too, until I realized
>> just how much of a difference I could make in this world
>> by ceasing to eat animal products. Soon after becoming a
>> vegan, a new world opened to me. Instead of feeling
>> deprived I had more food choices than ever before. For
>> any animal dish one likes there is a healthier and often
>> better tasting vegan dish to replace it. In a very short
>> period of time I no longer had any desire to eat animal
>> products. My suggestion to those with an overwhelming
>> reluctance to switch to a vegetarian diet is to try it
>> for a couple of weeks and then reevaluate yourself and
>> your views. Perhaps another thing that adds to an
>> aversion to going vegetarian is the fear that it will be
>> difficult and time consuming. In truth I did not find it
>> difficult amidst a busy life. Any questions or fears one
>> has can be answered with a small bit of research.
>> Millions of people are vegetarian and there is plenty of
>> easy access information. You learn easily as you go what
>> works for you and how simple it is to get all of your
>> body's needed nutrients.
>>
>> I don't think we fully realize how much power we have as
>> consumers, nor how much impact we have on our future and
>> the world. I cannot understand how we can continue to
>> engage in a diet we don't need that results in suffering
>> and painful deaths to animals, destroys the land that
>> supports our lives, pollutes the air we breathe and
>> pollutes the water we drink. Switching to a vegetarian
>> diet is not difficult, and I have never felt better in my
>> whole life. I have more energy, more clarity of mind; I'm
>> doing better in college, and severe stomach problems I
>> had since a child completely vanished. I have done it not
>> only for myself, but more importantly, for my greater
>> self which includes you and all life on Earth. Switching
>> to a vegetarian diet or at least largely cutting back on
>> meat eating is one of the easiest ways to take a stand
>> for your future and for future generations of humans,
>> animals, trees, and the Earth. I beg only that we think
>> deeply about our choices and make an effort to act
>> wisely.
>>
>
> It's interesting that the author of this article is concerned about
> predators being pushed off ranching land. It brings up a controversy that
> is even more fundamental than the vegetarian/omnivore question. Are humans
> really separate from animals? Is it okay for a wolf to eat meat, but not
> okay for me to do the same? We ARE animals, whether we like it or not,

WRONG.

And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which
the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl
after his kind: and God saw that it was good. Gen 1:21

And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters
in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. Gen 1:22

And the evening and the morning were the fifth day Gen 1:23

And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind,
cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it
was so. Gen 1:24

And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their
kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God
saw that it was good. Gen 1:25

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them
have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and
over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that
creepeth upon the earth Gen 1:26

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him;
male and female created he them. Gen 1:27

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and
replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the
sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth
upon the earth Gen 1:28

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is
upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of
a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. Gen 1:29

And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every
thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given
every green herb for meat: and it was so. Gen 1: 30

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And
the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Gen 1:31




and
> instinct trumps intellect every time. If you chose a vegan diet for
> "spiritual" reasons that is your right to freedom of religion. My own
> belief is that a carrot has every bit as much consiousness as a chicken,
> and only slightly less than a cow, and I have raised and eaten all three.
> So where do you draw the line? Is it less moral to kill a turkey than to
> kill a broccoli plant? Aren't both killing a living thing? Chickens kill
> and eat bugs, cows eat grasses, pigs eat anything, and I, for one, find it
> comfortable to live at the top of the food chain where nature put me, and
> not to have the audacity to believe myself superior to nature because of
> my bigger brain. I notice that dolphins and whales, who have bigger
> brains, still, have no compunction against killing to eat either.
> --
>
>
> --Rich



Dutch
2005-12-01 13:59:16 EST
"candi bowen" <reenbow@neo.rr.com> wrote
> So what are you saying, Rich, don't eat? Or eat dirt & rocks? Live off of
> sunshine & water? But, wait, that might be alive too.

The point to keep in mind is that many animals are harmed by agriculture.
Eating meat doesn't equate to a bloodless diet, only the appearance of one.
Don't get caught up in AR rhetoric.

> FYI - my pet chicken,
> dumb things that they are, has shown multi-tasking abilities & don't jump
> on
> the bandwagon because you haven't seen it. Certainly the carrots in my
> garden don't follow me to the front door, jump up & peck on the screen for
> attention & petting, ride my horse or put themselves to bed at night,
> waiting & clucking softly until I secure the door to protect her from
> predators. What I don't understand is why this newsgroup is full of people
> who are anti-vegetarians.

I am opposed to the self-serving, narrow-minded attitudes of many
vegetarians.

> Don't you have your own newsgroup; don't you have a
> life? I don't preach to other people what they should eat & I expect the
> same consideration in return.

Candi, Candi, wake up and smell the coffee, look at the subject of this
message. Who composed it? A vegetarian telling non-vegetarians that they do
not have a conscience. Do you call that considerate and non-preachy?


>> "Dr. Jai Maharaj" <usenet@mantra.com> wrote in message
>> news:20051130yUiXA1388ImApi@HyaA...
>>> EATING WITH A CONSCIENCE



Rich
2005-12-01 14:16:14 EST

"JanD" <JanD@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:63Hjf.591291$_o.333759@attbi_s71...
>
> "Rich" <joshew@hawaii.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:avEjf.49647$Hs.24868@tornado.socal.rr.com...
>>
>> "Dr. Jai Maharaj" <usenet@mantra.com> wrote in message
>> news:20051130yUiXA1388ImApi@HyaA...
>>> EATING WITH A CONSCIENCE
>>>
>>> [ Subject: Eating with a conscience
>>> [ From: Fidyl
>>> [ Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005
>>>
>>> Eating with a conscience
>>>
>>> By Sage Lorene Sheldon
>>>
>>> http://eartheasy.com/article_eating_conscience.htm
>>>
>>> There are many reasons to become a vegetarian or vegan.
>>> They include personal heath, animal cruelty,
>>> environmental devastation, waste of precious resources,
>>> pollution and global warming.
>>>
>>> Forty percent of America's beef is imported from land
>>> that once was home to vital rainforest life. Rainforests
>>> continue to be slashed and burned to clear land for
>>> cattle grazing. Thirty-eight percent of the world's grain
>>> is used to feed livestock, enough to feed 400 million
>>> people on a vegetarian diet. The world's oil reserves
>>> would last 260 years if humans ceased to eat meat.
>>> Livestock production uses over 50% of US water, creates
>>> 158 million tons of waste per year, and is the number one
>>> cause of water pollution. This industry pollutes more
>>> than all cities and industries combined. Grazing on
>>> American soil leads to more and more land degradation and
>>> erosion. Ranchers hunt and destroy any possible predators
>>> that have been pushed off ranching land rather than risk
>>> the loss of one steer. Precious aquifers are being
>>> depleted at incredibly fast rates to raise high water
>>> crops to feed cattle. Once these aquifers are gone, the
>>> land above them will basically become American desert.
>>>
>>> The ancient druids believed humans were meant to eat only
>>> things that reached for the sun; hence they ate only
>>> plant life. Leo Tolstoy said the first step to a
>>> righteous life was to cease injury to animals. Gandhi
>>> looked upon animal life as just as precious as human life
>>> and was unwilling to take the life of an animal. A Hindu
>>> poem claims that for one to have health, a long life,
>>> physical strength and moral strength, one should refrain
>>> from eating animal. Leonardo da Vinci believed that a day
>>> would come when humans would see no difference between
>>> the murder of animals and the murder of a human. Albert
>>> Einstein felt that nothing would help mankind more in
>>> health and survival than living on a vegetarian diet.
>>>
>>> It seems there is an innate reluctance in humans to
>>> deprive themselves of anything. Those who eat meat
>>> believe that they like it or perhaps even that they need
>>> it. Hence, to cease eating animals would be a deprivation
>>> in their eyes. I once thought so too, until I realized
>>> just how much of a difference I could make in this world
>>> by ceasing to eat animal products. Soon after becoming a
>>> vegan, a new world opened to me. Instead of feeling
>>> deprived I had more food choices than ever before. For
>>> any animal dish one likes there is a healthier and often
>>> better tasting vegan dish to replace it. In a very short
>>> period of time I no longer had any desire to eat animal
>>> products. My suggestion to those with an overwhelming
>>> reluctance to switch to a vegetarian diet is to try it
>>> for a couple of weeks and then reevaluate yourself and
>>> your views. Perhaps another thing that adds to an
>>> aversion to going vegetarian is the fear that it will be
>>> difficult and time consuming. In truth I did not find it
>>> difficult amidst a busy life. Any questions or fears one
>>> has can be answered with a small bit of research.
>>> Millions of people are vegetarian and there is plenty of
>>> easy access information. You learn easily as you go what
>>> works for you and how simple it is to get all of your
>>> body's needed nutrients.
>>>
>>> I don't think we fully realize how much power we have as
>>> consumers, nor how much impact we have on our future and
>>> the world. I cannot understand how we can continue to
>>> engage in a diet we don't need that results in suffering
>>> and painful deaths to animals, destroys the land that
>>> supports our lives, pollutes the air we breathe and
>>> pollutes the water we drink. Switching to a vegetarian
>>> diet is not difficult, and I have never felt better in my
>>> whole life. I have more energy, more clarity of mind; I'm
>>> doing better in college, and severe stomach problems I
>>> had since a child completely vanished. I have done it not
>>> only for myself, but more importantly, for my greater
>>> self which includes you and all life on Earth. Switching
>>> to a vegetarian diet or at least largely cutting back on
>>> meat eating is one of the easiest ways to take a stand
>>> for your future and for future generations of humans,
>>> animals, trees, and the Earth. I beg only that we think
>>> deeply about our choices and make an effort to act
>>> wisely.
>>>
>>
>> It's interesting that the author of this article is concerned about
>> predators being pushed off ranching land. It brings up a controversy that
>> is even more fundamental than the vegetarian/omnivore question. Are
>> humans really separate from animals? Is it okay for a wolf to eat meat,
>> but not okay for me to do the same? We ARE animals, whether we like it or
>> not,
>
> WRONG.
>
> And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which
> the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged
> fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. Gen 1:21
>
> And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the
> waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. Gen 1:22
>
> And the evening and the morning were the fifth day Gen 1:23
>
> And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his
> kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind:
> and it was so. Gen 1:24
>
> And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their
> kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God
> saw that it was good. Gen 1:25
>
> And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let
> them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air,
> and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing
> that creepeth upon the earth Gen 1:26
>
> So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him;
> male and female created he them. Gen 1:27
>
> And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply,
> and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of
> the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that
> moveth upon the earth Gen 1:28
>
> And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is
> upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit
> of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. Gen 1:29
>
> And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to
> every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have
> given every green herb for meat: and it was so. Gen 1: 30
>
> And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.
> And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. Gen 1:31

You are entitled to believe that if you wish. I have the right to believe
otherwise. I wonder how all the lions and tigers and eagles and bears
enjoyed the green herbs that they were given for meat in verse 1:30?

I personally believe in evolution; not evolution from monkeys, as
creationists would have it, but evolution from slime in the sea. All animals
were evolved from that same primordial soup, and we Homo sapiens didn't get
to be big and strong and fast and sapiens on vegan diets. We evolved that
way by eating whatever we could catch, kill, pick, or harvest, and, as we
evolved smarter, whatever we could plant or domesticate. That process
progressed naturally until we could selectively breed the plants and animals
that we raised, until most of the crops we grow and animals we raise bear
little resemblence to their wild ancestors; genetic modification began in
prehistory. Yes humans are at the top of the evolutionary tree. We are among
the fastest runners, and certainly near the best at long distance running.
(Kalahari bushmen routinely run down antelope and other ruminent prey.) Our
eyesight is unrivaled by any species for adaptability. We adapt to all
climates. We go where we please, on land, in the air, on and under the sea.
Yes, truly we have "dominion over every living thing that moveth upon the
earth," and in the air and sea, too. But all that is just a matter of scale.
We are still just bipedal mammals, who share most of our DNA with apes, and
much of it, for that matter, with frogs and even slugs.
--


--Rich

Recommended websites:

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
http://www.acahf.org.au
http://www.quackwatch.org/
http://www.skeptic.com/
http://www.csicop.org/


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