Vegetarian Discussion: Dreck's Stupid And Untenable Lie About Grass-fed Beef

Dreck's Stupid And Untenable Lie About Grass-fed Beef
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Rudy Canoza
2005-09-08 11:28:19 EST
Eat shit and bark at the moon, Dreck - the proposed
standard has NOT been adopted. I wrote to William
Sessions, the associate deputy administrator (how's
that for a title) at the Livestock and Seed Program at
USDA that is in charge of writing the standard for the
"meat marketing claims"; his name, title and e-mail
address are at a web page whose URL I gave yesterday,
http://www.fass.org/fasstrack/news_item.asp?news_id=1152


Here's his reply:


From: "Sessions, William" <William.Sessions@usda.gov>
To: <jonball@[...]>

Mr. Ball: Thanks for your message. The marketing claim
standards are
still under review by USDA. Accordingly, the standards
have not been
published in a final form for use. I hope this
information is helpful.
Please let me know if further information is needed.
Thanks,

William T. Sessions
Associate Deputy Administrator
Livestock and Seed Program

-----Original Message-----
From: jonball@[...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 11:38 AM
To: Sessions, William
Subject: 2003 proposed standards for meat marketing claims

I have read about the proposed standards, and I've seen
many of the
public comments sent to USDA. I cannot find anything
to indicate if the
standards were adopted.

Were the standards as proposed in 2003 adopted?

Thanks in advance.

Jonathan Ball
Pasadena, CA


Derek
2005-09-08 12:15:33 EST
On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 15:28:19 GMT, Rudy Canoza <someguy@ph.con> wrote:

>Eat shit and bark at the moon, Dreck - the proposed
>standard has NOT been adopted.

The proposed minimum requirement was issued on
December 20, 2002

and

"The proposed marketing claim standards may be used in
conjunction with [non]existing regulations or voluntary
USDA grade standards in USDA Certified and USDA
Verified programs." [my edit]
http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/stand/ls0202.txt

As we can see, the proposed market claim standard
can be and has been adopted by grass fed beef
producers since 2002. This means that so-called grass
fed producers have been selling grain finished beef while
at the same claiming it to be grass fed, and of course with
U.S.D.A.,'s full seal of approval. When the standard is
implemented ALL "New participants in USDA Certified
or USDA Verified programs will be required to adhere
to the United States Standards for Livestock and Meat
Marketing Claims immediately."

"AMS is seeking public comment on the following
proposed United States Standards for Livestock and
Meat Marketing Claims. New participants in USDA
Certified or USDA Verified programs will be required
to adhere to the United States Standards for Livestock
and Meat Marketing Claims immediately."
http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/stand/ls0202.txt

>I wrote to William
>Sessions, the associate deputy administrator (how's
>that for a title) at the Livestock and Seed Program at
>USDA that is in charge of writing the standard for the
>"meat marketing claims"; his name, title and e-mail
>address are at a web page whose URL I gave yesterday,
>http://www.fass.org/fasstrack/news_item.asp?news_id=1152
>
>
>Here's his reply:
>
>
>From: "Sessions, William" <William.Sessions@usda.gov>
>To: <jonball@[...]>
>
>Mr. Ball: Thanks for your message. The marketing claim
>standards are still under review by USDA. Accordingly,
>the standards have not been published in a final form for
>use. I hope this information is helpful.

Yes it is, because while waiting for this standard to be
published;

"The proposed marketing claim standards may be used in
conjunction with [non]existing regulations or voluntary
USDA grade standards in USDA Certified and USDA
Verified programs." [my edit]
http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/stand/ls0202.txt

As we can see, the proposed market claim standard
can be and has been adopted by grass fed beef
producers since 2002. It seems you've wasted your
time.

Rudy Canoza
2005-09-08 12:25:16 EST
Derek wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 15:28:19 GMT, Rudy Canoza <someguy@ph.con> wrote:
>
>
>>Eat shit and bark at the moon, Dreck - the proposed
>>standard has NOT been adopted.
>
>
> The proposed minimum requirement was issued on
> December 20, 2002

It remains ONLY a proposal. I have the e-mail response
from the USDA person in charge of it that confirms it
has NOT been adopted. I have another e-mail from
someone at the Union of Concerned Scientists that also
confirms it, but I haven't received her permission to
post her e-mail.

You lose: it is not an adopted standard at this time.


>>I wrote to William
>>Sessions, the associate deputy administrator (how's
>>that for a title) at the Livestock and Seed Program at
>>USDA that is in charge of writing the standard for the
>>"meat marketing claims"; his name, title and e-mail
>>address are at a web page whose URL I gave yesterday,
>>http://www.fass.org/fasstrack/news_item.asp?news_id=1152
>>
>>
>>Here's his reply:
>>
>>
>>From: "Sessions, William" <William.Sessions@usda.gov>
>>To: <jonball@[...]>
>>
>>Mr. Ball: Thanks for your message. The marketing claim
>>standards are still under review by USDA. Accordingly,
>>the standards have not been published in a final form for
>>use. I hope this information is helpful.
>
>
> Yes it is, because while waiting for this standard to be
> published;

Yes, it is, because it shows you to be full of shit and
wrong. It is not an adopted standard; it remains a
proposal.

Note that it is a proposed standard for *marketing
claims*, not a must-follow production standard.
Producers may and will produce 100% grass-fed beef, and
if they call it "100% grass-fed", it WILL BE 100%
grass-fed. Under the proposed but unadopted standard,
they would be able to label their product "grass-fed
beef", but NOT with the "100%" as part of the label.

Once again, you lose: 100% grass-fed will mean exactly
that.

Derek
2005-09-08 12:31:44 EST
On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 16:25:16 GMT, Rudy Canoza <someguy@ph.con> wrote:
>Derek wrote:
>> On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 15:28:19 GMT, Rudy Canoza <someguy@ph.con> wrote:
>>
>>>Eat shit and bark at the moon, Dreck - the proposed
>>>standard has NOT been adopted.
>>
>> The proposed minimum requirement was issued on
>> December 20, 2002
>
>It remains ONLY a proposal.

Yet that proposal can be and has been adopted by
so-called grass fed beef producers since it was first
published on December 20, 2002

"The proposed marketing claim standards may be used in
conjunction with [non]existing regulations or voluntary
USDA grade standards in USDA Certified and USDA
Verified programs." [my edit]
http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/stand/ls0202.txt

As we can see, the proposed market claim standard
can be and has been adopted by grass fed beef
producers since 2002. This means that so-called grass
fed producers have been selling grain finished beef while
at the same claiming it to be grass fed, and of course with
U.S.D.A.,'s full seal of approval. When the standard is
implemented ALL "New participants in USDA Certified
or USDA Verified programs will be required to adhere
to the United States Standards for Livestock and Meat
Marketing Claims immediately."

"AMS is seeking public comment on the following
proposed United States Standards for Livestock and
Meat Marketing Claims. New participants in USDA
Certified or USDA Verified programs will be required
to adhere to the United States Standards for Livestock
and Meat Marketing Claims immediately."
http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/stand/ls0202.txt

You've lost this one badly, Jon.

Rudy Canoza
2005-09-08 12:53:08 EST
Derek wrote:

> On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 16:25:16 GMT, Rudy Canoza <someguy@ph.con> wrote:
>
>>Derek wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 15:28:19 GMT, Rudy Canoza <someguy@ph.con> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Eat shit and bark at the moon, Dreck - the proposed
>>>>standard has NOT been adopted.
>>>
>>>The proposed minimum requirement was issued on
>>>December 20, 2002
>>
>>It remains ONLY a proposal.
>
>
> Yet that proposal can be and has been

No. It "has been" nothing, Dreck.

You lost. You lied, and you lost. Again.

Derek
2005-09-08 13:02:41 EST
On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 16:53:08 GMT, Rudy Canoza <someguy@ph.con> wrote:
>Derek wrote:
>> On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 16:25:16 GMT, Rudy Canoza <someguy@ph.con> wrote:
>>>Derek wrote:
>>>>On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 15:28:19 GMT, Rudy Canoza <someguy@ph.con> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Eat shit and bark at the moon, Dreck - the proposed
>>>>>standard has NOT been adopted.
>>>>
>>>>The proposed minimum requirement was issued on
>>>>December 20, 2002
>>>
>>>It remains ONLY a proposal.
>>
>> Yet that proposal can be and has been adopted by
>> so-called grass fed beef producers since it was first
>> published on December 20, 2002
>>
>> "The proposed marketing claim standards may be used in
>> conjunction with [non]existing regulations or voluntary
>> USDA grade standards in USDA Certified and USDA
>> Verified programs." [my edit]
>> http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/stand/ls0202.txt
>>
>> As we can see, the proposed market claim standard
>> can be and has been adopted by grass fed beef
>> producers since 2002. This means that so-called grass
>> fed producers have been selling grain finished beef while
>> at the same claiming it to be grass fed, and of course with
>> U.S.D.A.,'s full seal of approval. When the standard is
>> implemented ALL "New participants in USDA Certified
>> or USDA Verified programs will be required to adhere
>> to the United States Standards for Livestock and Meat
>> Marketing Claims immediately."
>>
>> "AMS is seeking public comment on the following
>> proposed United States Standards for Livestock and
>> Meat Marketing Claims. New participants in USDA
>> Certified or USDA Verified programs will be required
>> to adhere to the United States Standards for Livestock
>> and Meat Marketing Claims immediately."
>> http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/stand/ls0202.txt
>>
>> You've lost this one badly, Jon.
>
>No.

Oh yes, Jon; very badly indeed. Grass fed beef is in fact
grain finished beef, just like any regular steer found at the
feedlots stationed all over America. Just who did you
think you were trying to fool with your meat propaganda
anyway, idiot?

Rudy Canoza
2005-09-08 13:14:57 EST
Derek lied:
> On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 16:53:08 GMT, Rudy Canoza <someguy@ph.con> wrote:
>
>>Derek lied:
>>
>>>On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 16:25:16 GMT, Rudy Canoza <someguy@ph.con> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Derek lied:
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 15:28:19 GMT, Rudy Canoza <someguy@ph.con> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Eat shit and bark at the moon, Dreck - the proposed
>>>>>>standard has NOT been adopted.
>>>>>
>>>>>The proposed minimum requirement was issued on
>>>>>December 20, 2002
>>>>
>>>>It remains ONLY a proposal.

Only a proposal, Dreck, and now apparently a WITHDRAWN
proposal - they're going to start over, with another
public comment period. Mark my words: the NEW
proposal will be much stricter than the earlier one.

Derek
2005-09-08 13:18:02 EST
On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 17:14:57 GMT, Rudy Canoza <someguy@ph.con> wrote:
>Derek wrote:
>> On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 16:53:08 GMT, Rudy Canoza <someguy@ph.con> wrote:
>>>Derek wrote:
>>>>On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 16:25:16 GMT, Rudy Canoza <someguy@ph.con> wrote:
>>>>>Derek wrote:
>>>>>>On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 15:28:19 GMT, Rudy Canoza <someguy@ph.con> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Eat shit and bark at the moon, Dreck - the proposed
>>>>>>>standard has NOT been adopted.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The proposed minimum requirement was issued on
>>>>>>December 20, 2002
>>>>>
>>>>>It remains ONLY a proposal.
>
>Only a proposal

Yet that proposal can be and has been adopted by
so-called grass fed beef producers since it was first
published on December 20, 2002

"The proposed marketing claim standards may be used in
conjunction with [non]existing regulations or voluntary
USDA grade standards in USDA Certified and USDA
Verified programs." [my edit]
http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/stand/ls0202.txt

As we can see, the proposed market claim standard
can be and has been adopted by grass fed beef
producers since 2002. This means that so-called grass
fed producers have been selling grain finished beef while
at the same claiming it to be grass fed, and of course with
U.S.D.A.,'s full seal of approval. When the standard is
implemented ALL "New participants in USDA Certified
or USDA Verified programs will be required to adhere
to the United States Standards for Livestock and Meat
Marketing Claims immediately."

"AMS is seeking public comment on the following
proposed United States Standards for Livestock and
Meat Marketing Claims. New participants in USDA
Certified or USDA Verified programs will be required
to adhere to the United States Standards for Livestock
and Meat Marketing Claims immediately."
http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/stand/ls0202.txt

You've lost this one badly, Jon. Crawl away.

Rudy Canoza
2005-09-08 13:24:16 EST
Derek lied:

> On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 17:14:57 GMT, Rudy Canoza <someguy@ph.con> wrote:
>
>>Derek lied:
>>
>>>On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 16:53:08 GMT, Rudy Canoza <someguy@ph.con> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Derek lied:
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 16:25:16 GMT, Rudy Canoza <someguy@ph.con> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Derek lied:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 15:28:19 GMT, Rudy Canoza <someguy@ph.con> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Eat shit and bark at the moon, Dreck - the proposed
>>>>>>>>standard has NOT been adopted.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The proposed minimum requirement was issued on
>>>>>>>December 20, 2002
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It remains ONLY a proposal.
>>
>>Only a proposal
>
>
> Yet that proposal can be and has been adopted by

No one.

Derek
2005-09-08 14:12:42 EST
On Thu, 08 Sep 2005 17:24:16 GMT, Rudy Canoza <someguy@ph.con> wrote:
>>
>> Yet that proposal can be and has been adopted by
>
>No one.

The proposal can be and has been adopted by
so-called grass fed beef producers since it was first
published on December 20, 2002

"The proposed marketing claim standards may be used in
conjunction with [non]existing regulations or voluntary
USDA grade standards in USDA Certified and USDA
Verified programs." [my edit]
http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/stand/ls0202.txt

As we can see, the proposed market claim standard
can be and has been adopted by grass fed beef
producers since 2002. This means that so-called grass
fed producers have been selling grain finished beef while
at the same claiming it to be grass fed, and of course with
U.S.D.A.,'s full seal of approval. When the standard is
implemented ALL "New participants in USDA Certified
or USDA Verified programs will be required to adhere
to the United States Standards for Livestock and Meat
Marketing Claims immediately."

"AMS is seeking public comment on the following
proposed United States Standards for Livestock and
Meat Marketing Claims. New participants in USDA
Certified or USDA Verified programs will be required
to adhere to the United States Standards for Livestock
and Meat Marketing Claims immediately."
http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/stand/ls0202.txt

You've lost this one badly, Jon. Crawl away.
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