Vegetarian Discussion: Existence Is Not A Benefit

Existence Is Not A Benefit
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George Plimpton
2013-04-10 11:19:11 EST
Existence - "getting to experience life" - is not a benefit or advantage
to an entity, compared with never existing. A benefit or advantage is a
feature of one state of existence for an entity; not having the benefit
or advantage is a different state of existence for the entity. Benefit
and advantage only pertain to different states of existence. Existence
itself is not a benefit or advantage.

This is settled.

Sbalneav
2013-04-10 11:36:14 EST
In alt.atheism George Plimpton <george@si.not> wrote:
> Existence - "getting to experience life" - is not a benefit or advantage
> to an entity, compared with never existing. A benefit or advantage is a
> feature of one state of existence for an entity; not having the benefit
> or advantage is a different state of existence for the entity. Benefit
> and advantage only pertain to different states of existence. Existence
> itself is not a benefit or advantage.

Yes.

> This is settled.

Agreed.

--
sbalneav | The road uphill and the road downhill
a.a #2171 | are one and the same.
alt-atheism.org | -- Heraclitus

Raven1
2013-04-10 12:42:43 EST
On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 08:19:11 -0700, George Plimpton <george@si.not>
wrote:

>Existence - "getting to experience life" - is not a benefit or advantage
>to an entity, compared with never existing. A benefit or advantage is a
>feature of one state of existence for an entity; not having the benefit
>or advantage is a different state of existence for the entity. Benefit
>and advantage only pertain to different states of existence. Existence
>itself is not a benefit or advantage.
>
>This is settled.

This is piffle.


George Plimpton
2013-04-10 14:37:12 EST
On 4/10/2013 9:42 AM, raven1 wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 08:19:11 -0700, George Plimpton <george@si.not>
> wrote:
>
>> Existence - "getting to experience life" - is not a benefit or advantage
>> to an entity, compared with never existing. A benefit or advantage is a
>> feature of one state of existence for an entity; not having the benefit
>> or advantage is a different state of existence for the entity. Benefit
>> and advantage only pertain to different states of existence. Existence
>> itself is not a benefit or advantage.
>>
>> This is settled.
>
> This is piffle.

It's not. It's a succinct explanation of why Fuckwit's entire 14 year
jihad against "vegans" is based on bullshit.


Ben Kaufman
2013-04-10 15:07:35 EST
On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 08:19:11 -0700, George Plimpton <george@si.not> wrote:

>Existence - "getting to experience life" - is not a benefit or advantage
>to an entity, compared with never existing. A benefit or advantage is a
>feature of one state of existence for an entity; not having the benefit
>or advantage is a different state of existence for the entity. Benefit
>and advantage only pertain to different states of existence. Existence
>itself is not a benefit or advantage.
>
>This is settled.

Clearly a benefit to being the jury.

George Plimpton
2013-04-10 15:10:41 EST
On 4/10/2013 12:07 PM, Ben Kaufman wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 08:19:11 -0700, George Plimpton <george@si.not> wrote:
>
>> Existence - "getting to experience life" - is not a benefit or advantage
>> to an entity, compared with never existing. A benefit or advantage is a
>> feature of one state of existence for an entity; not having the benefit
>> or advantage is a different state of existence for the entity. Benefit
>> and advantage only pertain to different states of existence. Existence
>> itself is not a benefit or advantage.
>>
>> This is settled.
>
> Clearly a benefit to being the jury.

You missed both the presentation of the case and the deliberations.


Ben Kaufman
2013-04-10 20:51:20 EST
On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 12:10:41 -0700, George Plimpton <george@si.not> wrote:

>On 4/10/2013 12:07 PM, Ben Kaufman wrote:
>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 08:19:11 -0700, George Plimpton <george@si.not> wrote:
>>
>>> Existence - "getting to experience life" - is not a benefit or advantage
>>> to an entity, compared with never existing. A benefit or advantage is a
>>> feature of one state of existence for an entity; not having the benefit
>>> or advantage is a different state of existence for the entity. Benefit
>>> and advantage only pertain to different states of existence. Existence
>>> itself is not a benefit or advantage.
>>>
>>> This is settled.
>>
>> Clearly a benefit to being the jury.
>
>You missed both the presentation of the case and the deliberations.

Have you considered existence of non-living entities, such as sentient
artificial intelligence programs that don't get to experience life?

Ben

George Plimpton
2013-04-11 01:19:29 EST
On 4/10/2013 5:51 PM, Ben Kaufman wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 12:10:41 -0700, George Plimpton <george@si.not> wrote:
>
>> On 4/10/2013 12:07 PM, Ben Kaufman wrote:
>>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 08:19:11 -0700, George Plimpton <george@si.not> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Existence - "getting to experience life" - is not a benefit or advantage
>>>> to an entity, compared with never existing. A benefit or advantage is a
>>>> feature of one state of existence for an entity; not having the benefit
>>>> or advantage is a different state of existence for the entity. Benefit
>>>> and advantage only pertain to different states of existence. Existence
>>>> itself is not a benefit or advantage.
>>>>
>>>> This is settled.
>>>
>>> Clearly a benefit to being the jury.
>>
>> You missed both the presentation of the case and the deliberations.
>
> Have you considered existence of non-living entities, such as sentient
> artificial intelligence programs that don't get to experience life?

No such thing - yet. There is a lot of turgid blabber about it, but the
phenomenon doesn't exist.


Ben Kaufman
2013-04-11 08:28:18 EST
On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 22:19:29 -0700, George Plimpton <george@si.not> wrote:

>On 4/10/2013 5:51 PM, Ben Kaufman wrote:
>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 12:10:41 -0700, George Plimpton <george@si.not> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/10/2013 12:07 PM, Ben Kaufman wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 08:19:11 -0700, George Plimpton <george@si.not> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Existence - "getting to experience life" - is not a benefit or advantage
>>>>> to an entity, compared with never existing. A benefit or advantage is a
>>>>> feature of one state of existence for an entity; not having the benefit
>>>>> or advantage is a different state of existence for the entity. Benefit
>>>>> and advantage only pertain to different states of existence. Existence
>>>>> itself is not a benefit or advantage.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is settled.
>>>>
>>>> Clearly a benefit to being the jury.
>>>
>>> You missed both the presentation of the case and the deliberations.
>>
>> Have you considered existence of non-living entities, such as sentient
>> artificial intelligence programs that don't get to experience life?
>
>No such thing - yet. There is a lot of turgid blabber about it, but the
>phenomenon doesn't exist.

So you've done an exhaustive amount of research into this field?

Rupert
2013-04-11 09:27:12 EST
On Thursday, April 11, 2013 2:28:18 PM UTC+2, Ben Kaufman wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 22:19:29 -0700, George Plimpton <george@si.not> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On 4/10/2013 5:51 PM, Ben Kaufman wrote:
>
> >> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 12:10:41 -0700, George Plimpton <george@si.not> wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>> On 4/10/2013 12:07 PM, Ben Kaufman wrote:
>
> >>>> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 08:19:11 -0700, George Plimpton <george@si.not> wrote:
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>> Existence - "getting to experience life" - is not a benefit or advantage
>
> >>>>> to an entity, compared with never existing. A benefit or advantage is a
>
> >>>>> feature of one state of existence for an entity; not having the benefit
>
> >>>>> or advantage is a different state of existence for the entity. Benefit
>
> >>>>> and advantage only pertain to different states of existence. Existence
>
> >>>>> itself is not a benefit or advantage.
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>> This is settled.
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> Clearly a benefit to being the jury.
>
> >>>
>
> >>> You missed both the presentation of the case and the deliberations.
>
> >>
>
> >> Have you considered existence of non-living entities, such as sentient
>
> >> artificial intelligence programs that don't get to experience life?
>
> >
>
> >No such thing - yet. There is a lot of turgid blabber about it, but the
>
> >phenomenon doesn't exist.
>
>
>
> So you've done an exhaustive amount of research into this field?

I think that you'll find that what he said is the consensus view. One organization which is interested in the implications of developing artificial intelligence in the future is the Singularity Institute.
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