Vegetarian Discussion: Hindu Brahmin Preist Revert Back To Islam Part1

Hindu Brahmin Preist Revert Back To Islam Part1
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Arah
2012-01-18 14:52:01 EST
Hindu Brahmin Preist revert back to Islam Part1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBI3lwV_ukc

Fanabba
2012-01-18 16:19:02 EST
On Jan 18, 2:52 pm, arah <araharah2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hindu Brahmin Preist revert back to Islam Part1
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBI3lwV_ukc

Islam is not a religion.

Islam cannot be reformed.

Prophet of Doom
http://www.prophetofdoom.net/

Former Muslims Tell the Truth About Islam
http://www.islam-watch.org/
http://www.faithfreedom.org/

2012-01-18 21:05:52 EST
Probably the priest has not read this article by a Muslim as found in
http://www.islam-watch.org/index.php?id=598&option=com_content&task=view

Incest in Islam
Wednesday, 01 December 2010 16:21 Abul Kasem

Prophet Muhammad's incestuous marriage to his daughter-in-law Zaynab
in well known. But not many people know that Quranic verses also leave
scope for marriage with one's biological daughter and Shafii Islam,
indeed, allows it...

(Caution: This essay may offend some readers)

Introduction

The Oxford Dictionary defines incest as sexual intercourse between
near relations.

Elaborating on this Encyclopaedia Britannica (CD ROM version) writes:

Generally speaking, the closer the genetic relationship between two
people, the stronger and more highly charged is the taboo prohibiting
or discouraging sexual relations between them. Thus, sexual
intercourse between a father and daughter, a mother and son, or a
brother and sister is almost universally forbidden. Sexual relations
between an uncle and niece or between an aunt and nephew are also
generally taboo, and relations between first cousins are prohibited as
well in some societies.

On the harmful effect of incestuous relation Encyclopaedia Britannica
also writes:

Highly inbred populations have diminished reproductive success and
become gene pools for hereditary disorders.

Incest in the Qur'an: Marriage between father and his biological
daughter

Muslims will find it hard to believe that Allah in the Qur'an has
violated the universal condemnation of incest. Let us read verse
4:23-24 which lists the categories of women that a Muslim man may not
marry.

004.023 (Yusuf Ali)
YUSUFALI: Prohibited to you (For marriage) are:- Your mothers,
daughters, sisters; father's sisters, Mother's sisters; brother's
daughters, sister's daughters; foster-mothers (Who gave you suck),
foster-sisters; your wives' mothers; your step-daughters under your
guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone in,- no
prohibition if ye have not gone in;- (Those who have been) wives of
your sons proceeding from your loins; and two sisters in wedlock at
one and the same time, except for what is past; for Allah is Oft-
forgiving, Most Merciful;-
004.024
YUSUFALI: Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those
whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions)
against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek
(them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity,
not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their
dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed,
agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is
All-knowing, All-wise.

One might think that verse 4:23 specifically prohibits a man from
marrying (that is, to have sex) with his biological daughter. However,
this may not be so. Hashim Kamali, one of the most eminent scholars of
Islamic Jurisprudence and currently the Professor of Islamic Law and
Jurisprudence at International Islamic University Malaysia writes:

An example of the zanni in the Qur'an is the text which reads,
'prohibited to you are your mothers and your daughters' (al-Nisa'
4:23). The text is definitive in regard to the prohibition of marriage
with one's mother and daughter and there is no disagreement on this
point. However, the word banatakum ('your daughters') could be taken
for its literal meaning, which would be a female child born to a
person either through marriage or through zina, or for its juridical
meaning. In the latter sense 'banatukum' can only mean a legitimate
daughter.

The jurists are in disagreement as to which of these meanings should
be read into text. The Hanafis have upheld the first of the two
meanings and have ruled on the prohibition of marriage to one's
illegitimate daughter, whereas the Shafis have upheld the second.
According to this interpretation, marriage with one's illegitimate
daughter is not forbidden as the text only refers to a daughter
through marriage. It would follow from this that the illegitimate
daughter has no right to inheritance, and the rules of guardianship
and custody would not apply to her. (Hashim Kamali, pp. 21-23)

Note: The Qur'an scholars divide the Qur'anic verses into two classes:
qati--definitive, no speculation and zanni--speculative. Even the
eminent Sharia expert Professor Hashim Kamali admits that the Qur'an
is ambiguous. (Hashim Kamali, p. 33.)

This will be a bombshell to the Muslims. Hashim Kamali testifies that
at least one sect of Islam (that is, Shafi) allows a Muslim man to
marry his biological daughter and have sex with her if the daughter
has been born illegitimate.

We may wonder how a Muslim man could have an illegitimate daughter
since in Islam all sex out of marriage, except sex with one's sex-
slaves, is forbidden. Let us ponder on the following situations:

A Muslim unmarried man has sex with a Muslim unmarried woman.
The woman gives birth to a daughter. Because of their Zina, both of
them receive one hundred lashes. The punishment over, they depart---
going their own way, or they decide to marry, but the daughter remains
illegitimate. When the daughter turns eight or ten the biological
father marries his daughter.

This incestuous marriage is allowed by the Shafi rule, according to
professor Kamali. If they are Hanafi or other sect the father may not
marry the illegitimate daughter.

A Muslim unmarried man (of Shafii sect) has sex with a Kafir woman.
She gives birth to a daughter. The father receives the Islamic
lashing. The woman may go scot free depending on which Islamic country
she resides, because in some Islamic countries non-Muslims are exempt
from Sharia laws. The illegitimate daughter lives with her mother.
When the illegitimate daughter turns eight or more she becomes halal
for her biological father. He marries his biological daughter.

A Muslim unmarried man commits adultery with a married Muslim woman.
She becomes pregnant. As per Sharia law the man receives one hundred
lashes and the woman is sentenced to be stoned to death. However, her
stoning is postponed until she gives birth to her child and weans the
baby of breastfeeding. This condemned woman gives birth to a daughter.
At age two the baby girl is taken away from her mother. Then the
mother is stoned to death. The hapless child may be sheltered in a
foster home or even live with her biological father. When the daughter
turns eight her biological father marries her.

Let us ponder on what might happen if a Hanafi unmarried man has
illicit sex with a Shafi married woman

Presumably, Malaysia follows Shafi, Bangladesh follows Hanafi.

Malaysian married Muslim woman + Bangladesh unmarried man = Zina and
adultery.

Malaysia's religious police catch them in action. Both of them receive
Islamic punishment as per Shafi law. The woman may not receive
stoning--as it is not enforced in Malaysia.

The woman gives birth to a girl--this is the illegitimate daughter to
the man. Let us call her daughter A.

What about the woman? Will the daughter be illegitimate to the mother?
As per Islamic rule, yes. Later, the woman's husband divorces her. She
moves on, along with her illegitimate daughter.

The sex offender man marries the woman. May be, the wife gives birth
to another daughter--this time legitimate. Call this daughter B.

Now, as per Islamic Law can we say A and B are sisters? Nope.

The entire family lives under one roof. When A, the illegitimate
daughter, turns 8 or more, the biological father marries her.

He now has two wives--his sex partner wife + his own illegitimate
daughter. That is, the man is simultaneously married to the mother and
the daughter.

So, Islamically, he may have sex with his biological daughter and her
mother--perfectly legal as per Shafi rule.

I am not sure if this incidence happened, say in Bangladesh or India
or Pakistan, what would happen as these countries follow Hanafi Muslim
laws.

We must remember when a Muslim lives in Malaysia whether he is a
Malaysian citizen or not he must abide by the Islamic Sharia of
Malaysia which is largely Shafi.

Sex between sons and their father's concubines

Stepping further on verse 4:23-24, it may even be Islamically possible
for a son to have sexual intercourse with his father's concubines or
father's sex partners. In this case the mother is not a biological
mother, but still a mother, no matter what--just as step mother.

On the restrictions women who can be married as depicted in 4:23-24
Maulana Maududi writes:

The word 'mother' applies to one's step-mother as well as to one's
real mother. Hence the prohibition extends to both. This injunction
also includes prohibition of the grandmother, both paternal and
maternal. There is disagreement on whether a woman with whom a father
has had an unlawful sexual relationship is prohibited to his son or
not. There are some among the early authorities who do not believe in
such prohibition. But there are others who go so far as to say that a
woman whom a father has touched with sexual desire becomes prohibited
to the son. (Maududi 4/34.)

Incestuous marriages among close blood relations

Here is another verse from the Qur'an that may suggest that incestuous
marriages are permissible in Islam.

025.054
YUSUFALI: It is He Who has created man from water: then has He
established relationships of lineage and marriage: for thy Lord has
power (over all things).

Eminent tafsir writer Jalalyn writes:

And it is He who created human beings from water (sperm) and then gave
them relations by blood and marriage--because men and women marry to
seek progeny. Your Lord is All Powerful, possessing the power to do
whatever He wills. (Tafsir Jalalyn, Tr. Aisha Bewley, p. 781).

Some scholars say this verse allows Muslim men to have sex with their
daughters [incest]. See this video (Reader may find the video has been
removed from the first link. When I tested I found the second link
working.)

Marriage between father-in-law and wife of an adopted son

In the Arab society in which Muhammad lived the tradition of adoption
was noble and sanctified. Their adopted sons were like their own
biological sons and the wives of adopted sons were like their own
daughter-in-laws. Zayd bin Haritha was Muhammad's adopted son.
Muhammad even got Zayd married to his (Muhammad's) cousin sister
Zaynab bt. Jahsh (Tabari, p. ix.134). But later, when Muhammad saw her
beauty and sex appeal, he became passionate to have sex with her. In
the Arab society this kind of marriage between father-in-law and
daughter-in-law, whether of adopted son or not, was considered
incestuous. But Muhammad did not care. He sought Allah's help, and
Allah promptly sent down appropriate verses to let Muhammad satisfy
his desire. Zaynab became Muhammad's eighth wife. Accordingly, Allah
also changed the adoption rule--He permitted Muslims to marry their
adopted sons' wives after they obtain divorce from their husbands
(33:37). Even Tabari and Waqidi admit that Muhammad married his cousin
sister Zaynab bt Jahsh out of last (Tabari, p. viii. xii). Here is
what the eminent Islamic historian Tabari writes about this
'incestous' marriage of Muhammad.

Muhammad had uncontrolled fascination for Zaynab bt. Jahsh

The Messenger of God came to the house of Zayd b. Harithah. (Zayd was
always called Zayd b. Muhammad.) Perhaps the Messenger of God missed
him at that moment, so as to ask, "Where is Zayd?" He came to his
residence to look for him but did not find him. Zaynab bt. Jahsh,
Zayd's wife, rose to look for him but did not find him. Because she
was dressed only in a shift, the Messenger of God turned away from
her. She said: "He is not here, Messenger of God. Come in, you are as
dear to me as my father and mother!" The Messenger of God refused to
enter. Zaynab had dressed in haste where she was told "the Messenger
of God is at the door." She jumped up in haste and excited the
admiration of the Messenger of God, so that he turned away murmuring
something that could scarcely be understood. However, he did say
overtly: "Glory be to God the Almighty! Glory be to God, who causes
hearts to turn!" (Tabari, p. viii.2)

While the Messenger of God was talking with A'ishah, a fainting
overcame him. When he was released from it, he smiled and said, "Who
will go to Zaynab to tell her the good news, saying that God has
married her to me?" Then the Messenger of God recited: "And when you
said unto him on whom God has conferred favour and you have conferred
favour, "Keep your wife to yourself..." (33:37)--and the entire passage.
(ibid, p. viii.3)

In-breeding: Cousin Marriages

In Islam cousin marriage is quite popular and widely acceptable.
Cousin marriages, especially among first cousins, are a potentially
harmful practice because the children born out of such marriages
suffer from many genetic disorders. A comprehensive article about this
debilitating practice among Muslims can be read here: Muslim
Inbreeding: Impacts on intelligence, sanity, health and society

Let us find out why Muslims are more likely to indulge in first cousin
marriage than other communities.

033.050
YUSUFALI: O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom
thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses
out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and
daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy
maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and
any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the
Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the
Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to
their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order
that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-
Forgiving, Most Merciful.

This verse unabashedly permitted Muhammad to have sex with his first
cousin sisters even without marrying them. Why Allah permitted
Muhammad to indulge in such a reckless incestuous relationship? For
the answer, we need to know the context of this verse. A hadis in
Tirmidhi (print version) tells us this:

Muhammad proposed Umm Hani, his cousin sister, to marry him. She
declined. So Allah revealed that Muhammad could have sex with his
cousin sisters who had migrated to Medina without marrying them
(33:50). Umm Hani said though she was Muhammad's cousin sister,
Muhammad could not have sex with her as she did not migrate to Medina.
She only embraced Islam after Muhammad had conquered Mecca. (Daif)...
(Tirmidhi 5.3214)

Here is the complete Hadis:

Tirmidhi, vol. 5, Hadis 3214, p. 522
Umm Hani bint Abu Talib said: "The Messenger of Allah proposed to me,
but I asked him to excuse me, so he did excuse me. Then Allah [Most
High] revealed: "Verily We have made lawful to you your wives, to whom
you have paid their due, and those whom your right hands possess--whom
Allah has given to you, and the daughters of your paternal uncles, and
the daughters paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal
uncles, and the daughters of your maternal aunts, who migrated with
you, and a believing woman, if she offers herself to the Prophet...
(33:50). She said: "So I was not lawful for him because I did not
perform Hijrah; I was one of the Tulaqa.(Daif)

[Abu 'Eisa said:] This Hadith is Hasan [Sahih] we do not know of it
except from this route as a narration of As-Suddi

[In a footnote the translator describes the Tulaqa are those who
accepted Islam after the conquest of Makkah.]

The readers should note that Abu 'Eisa is Imam Tirmidhi's kunya (that
is, father of 'Eisa). According to Imam Tirmidhi this Hadis is Hasan,
meaning it is a reliable Hadis.

Umm Hani was the daughter of Abu Taleb, Muhammad's uncle. AbuTaleb
brought up Muhammad in his home. Muhammad fell deeply in love with Umm
Hani, but was greatly aggrieved when he asked to marry her but Abu
Taleb refused. This meant Abu Taleb, a Meccan pagan, did not like
first cousin marriage. But, as demonstrated in the above verse, Allah
found a way to satisfy Muhammad's desire to have sex with his old
flame.

The truth was: although Allah said in the verse that those of
Muhammad's first cousin sisters who had migrated with him to Medina
were eligible to have sex with him, Muhammad never followed Allah's
instruction. The great Islamic scholar Maulana Maududi writes:

The ladies from among his first cousins, who emigrated along with him.
The words "who emigrated with you" do not mean that they accompanied
the Holy Prophet in his migration journey but this that they also had
migrated in the way of Allah for the sake of Islam. The Holy Prophet
was given the choice to marry any one of them he liked. Accordingly,
in A.H. 7 he married Hadrat Umm Habibah. (Incidentally, in this verse
it has been elucidated that the daughters of one's paternal and
maternal uncles and aunts are lawful for a Muslim. In this regard the
Islamic Law is different both from the Christian Law and from the
Jewish Law. Among the Christians one cannot marry a woman whose line
of descent joins one's own anywhere in the last seven generations, and
among the Jews it is permissible even to marry one's real niece, i.e.
daughter of one's brother or sister. (Maududi 33/87.)

To justify the marriage between first cousins among Muslims, Maulana
Maududi cites irrelevant matters of the Jews and the Christians. While
currently, the first cousin marriage among the Jews and the Christians
is indeed rare, the same may not be true for the Muslims as the
statistics from the above article demonstrates.

In fact, Dr. Mahathir the former Prime Minister of Malaysia was so
concerned about the first cousin marriages among the Muslims in
Malaysia that he wrote a book, The Malay Dilemma. In this book Dr
Mahathir postulated that one of the main reasons for the absolute
backwardness of Malays is due to their practice of in-breeding. He was
a medical professional. He wrote that because of in-breeding the
Malays have a very limited genetic pool.

Here are a few excerpts from Dr Mahathir's book The Malay Dilemma.

Generally speaking, modern ideas on the evolution of man are not
acceptable to Muslims and therefore to Malays. But even Malays admit
that certain characteristics are passed from parents to offspring.
"Bapak borek, anak beritek" is a well-known Malay saying which means
"A spotted father begets a speckled son." The meaning is obvious. If
this is so for an individual then hereditary influence must play a
role in the development of a collection of individuals which
constitutes a race. What is not generally known by the Malays is the
effect of in-breeding.

In this book I have explained how the laws of genetics, which govern
the transmission of hereditary characteristics, are affected adversely
by in-breeding and other marriage practices.

There has been a lot of scientific thinking on the subject of
in-breeding and the effect on human society. Cyril Dean Darlington, a
British geneticist, in his book, The Evolution of Man and Society,
takes the extreme view that the evolution of human society is the
product of genes. According to him, civilizations flourish and decay
in obedience to genetic decrees. He pointed out that once a ruling
class fixed itself in power, it sought to conserve that power by
in-breeding, thus denying the infusion of fresh stock. It was this
habit, according to Darligton, that expedited the decline of the
Pharaohs, the Ptolemies and the Caesars.

This interesting hypothesis is perhaps too extreme to be generally
accepted even by non-Muslims. In any case, Darligton was referring
mainly to incest, a practice which is unknown among the Malays.
However, the modern definition of in-breeding includes marriages
between first cousins and other close relatives, a practice fairly
common among the Malays. Hereditary influence also produces an adverse
effect in a society which, abhorring celibacy, insists that everyone,
fit or unfit, should marry. Thus, the deformed in mind and body are
somehow paired off and reproduce.

While it must be admitted that inbreeding is not general among the
Malays, what cannot be denied is that the instances of in-breeding are
greater among them than among the other major races in Malaysia--the
Chinese. In fact Chinese marriage customs specifically prevents
in-breeding. And so it is correct to say that in-breeding together
with forced marriages of the unfit produce a much greater percentage
of human failures among Malays as compared with other races.

This explanation is offered in mitigation and defence of my views.
Nevertheless it is not expected that they will be easily accepted. The
implications are too depressing and hold no promise of easy or rapid
remedies. (Dr Mahathir Mohamad, The Malay Dilemma, p. 1, 2.)

Mendel's law states that offspring are not intermediate in type
between the two parents, but that the type of one or the other is
predominant according to a fixed law. The importance of this law lies
in its rejection of the popular concept that offspring must be a
dilution of the opposing characters of the parents.

Mendels's Law is best illustrated by experiments in breeding white and
brown mice. Provided that a sufficiently large series of experiments
is carried out, the mating of white and brown mice will produce not
spotted or brownish white mice but white mice predominantly. But if
this (sic) first generation of white mice are mated among themselves,
the offspring are not all white but a mixture of pure white and pure
brown in the proportion of three whites to one brown. The point this
illustrates is that white is a dominant characteristic which shows up
in the first generation. However, even though the first generation
appears pure white, it has a hidden brown factor which is
transmissible to the next generation. But this brown factor is weak as
shown by the fact that only one in four of the second generation is
brown in colour. (Dr Mahathir Mohamad, The Malay Dilemma, p. 17)

A dominant characteristic tends to cancel a recessive characteristic,
and it is clear that if the parents have different sets of dominant
characteristics, then the offspring will have a combination of all the
dominant characteristics of the parents. It follows therefore that the
best offspring are those resulting from parents with different good
dominant characteristics. Thus since close relatives tend to resemble
each other and the chances of carrying similar recessive
characteristics are greater, marriage between such relatives will not
produce the best offspring. On the other hand, as unrelated people
have more differences in characteristic, a marriage between such
people would tend to produce ideal offspring with good dominant
characteristics of both parents, while the recessive characteristics
are cancelled. (Dr Mahathir Mohamad, The Malay Dilemma, p. 18-19)

Predictably, after the first publication of The Malay Dilemma, the
Malaysian Government banned it, and Dr Mahathir was expelled from the
Malaysia's most dominant Muslim party UMNO (United Malays National
Organisation). Malaysian Law stipulates that all Malays are, by
definition, Muslims. A few years later, Dr Mahathir was again admitted
into UMNO, and he finally became the UMNO president, but his book The
Malay Dilemma remained proscribed. Only after Dr Mahathir became the
Prime Minister of Malaysia, the ban on this controversial book was
lifted, and republished in 1981.

Admittedly, Dr Mahathir is very knowledgeable in genetics and his
courage to tell the truth is admirable.

But Dr Mahathir did not have the supreme intrepidity to blame the
genetic root of Malay backwardness to Islam--more precisely that the
Malays, being deeply Islamic religious, are simply following Islamic
rules on first cousin marriage and emulating their prophet, Muhammad.
Dr Mahathir was too fearful to be seen as anti-islam. He blamed the
Malays for their proclivity towards in-breeding and not Islam. It was
too dangerous for him to do so.

Conclusion: Like it or not, Incest in Islam is alive and kicking well
as can be illustrated from several verses of the Qur'an. The various
interpretations, often contradictory, just prove that these words
could not be from Allah. Allah cannot be so dim-witted not to know
what is best for His Ummah. All-knowing, almighty Allah cannot be so
careless that He would leave His words in such a manner that what one
group of Muslims means to be halal may be death to another group of
Muslims. The topic of incest in Islam is such a dangerous game. It
also possible that the inherent backward of the Muslim in general
might be rooted in their limited genetic pool because of incestuous
marriage practiced in many Islamic nation.

Bibliography:

al-Tabari, Abu Ja'far Muhammad b. Jarir, The Victory of Islam,
vol. viii. Translated by Michael Fishbein. State University of New
York Press, Albany, 1997. ISBN 0-7914-3150-9
al-Tabari, Abu Ja'far Muhammad b. Jarir. The Last Years of the
Prophet, vol. ix. Translated by Ismail K. Poonwala. State University
of New York Press, Albany, 1990. ISBN 0-88706-692-5.
Encyclopaedia Britannica 2007 Ultimate Reference Suite CD ROM
version.
Imam Hafiz Abu 'Eisa Mohammad Ibn 'Eisa At-Tirmidhi, Jami'
At-Tirmidhi (vol. 1-6), Tr. Abu Khaliyl, Final review by Islamic
Research Section Darussalam, Darussalam, P.O. Box 22743, Riyadh 11416,
Saudi Arabia, First Ed. November 2007.
Jalalu'd-Din Al-Mahali and Jalal'ud-Din As-Suyuti. Tafsir
Al-Jalalyn, translated in English by Aisha Bewley. Dar Al-Taqwa Ltd.
7A Melcombe Street, Baker Street, London NW1 6AE, 2007. ISBN:
1-870582-61-6
Kamali, Mohammad Hashim. PRINCIPLES OF Islamic JURISPRUDENCE.First
published by the Islamic Text Society of Cambridge, U. K.1991. Second
Revised Edition, sixth printing, 2009. ILMIAH PUBLISHERS SDN. BHD.
Regalia Business Centre, no. 33, Jalan USJ 1/1C, USJ 1, 47620 Subang
Jaya, Selangor Darul Ehsan, Malaysia.
Mohamad, Mahathir Dr. The Malay Dilemma. FEDERAL PUBLICATIONS SDN
BHD. 8238 Jalan 222, Petaling Jaya, Selangor, Malaysia. 1981. First
published 1970.
Maududi: http://www.tafheem.net/main.html
The three translations of the Qur'an: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/reference.html

Myself Mallu, Yourself?
2012-01-19 00:23:44 EST
On 1/18/2012 11:52 AM, arah wrote:
> Hindu Brahmin Preist revert back to Islam Part1
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBI3lwV_ukc


To put it in words that you've used before, "I cannot believed it."

How do you know the raving lunatic was a "Hindu Brahmin Preist [sic]"?
He told you so? I am not going to watch some crappy ass Youtube videos
of bearded loonies. Anyways, I am curious about Part 2. Does this loon
go "BOOM!" and "revert back" to virgin quest?



--
VB, Ubetjotushy
'ome=shanty

-----
About the Jihadi Loon Squad:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
A jihadi loon is someone like Jade Muckeraj.

"Jade Muckeraj" aka "The Old Cow of Hawaii" <charlatan@fraudsrus.com>
tries her best to pretend she is a Hindu -- cutting and pasting, and
even doctoring what others post/write about Hindus/Hinduism on the
internet, deliberately pidginizing Sanskrit and providing wrong
translations, inventing brand new books in the Mahabharat (reducing it
to Muckabharat), stalking and abusing people who disagree with her by
hijacking their posts, and then cuts and pastes about Hindu ethics and
moans self-righteously about honesty -- and succeeds spectacularly in
convincing all, except other jihadi loons, that she is not a Hindu.
She is in fact a creepy jihadi loon, who thinks she owns the newsgroup
s.c.indian, and has absolutely no problem slandering anyone. As a
Indian citizen supposedly, she meddles in US political issues, and
advocates civil war in India.

And/or Www.mantra.com/jai Dr. Jai Maharaj
2012-01-19 00:40:23 EST
In article <18489c41-ab96-4517-a5f0-eba050709445@m11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
fanabba <fanabba@aol.com> posted:
>
> On Jan 18, 2:52=A0pm, arah <araharah2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > . . .
>
> Islam is not a religion.
>
> Islam cannot be reformed.
>
> Prophet of Doom
>
> http://www.prophetofdoom.net/
>
> Former Muslims Tell the Truth About Islam
>
> http://www.islam-watch.org/
> http://www.faithfreedom.org/

Dhanyavaad for your post,

Islam is a terrorist cult.

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

Arah
2012-01-19 12:34:43 EST
The Destroyer of Idols - The Story of Our Prophet Ibrahim



When spring came, water flew in the Tigris and the Euphrates. People
were delighted, so they held celebrations in the city of Urr and other
cities Of Babylon.

When spring came and level of water rose in rivers, the farmers were
glad, for their crops would increase.
The people of the city of Urr went to Zaqqura, which was a pyramidal
temple. They took with them gifts to offer them to the gods,
especially the god Mardukh.

The people of Babylon held celebrations outside their cities. They
chose pretty places to dance, to eat, and to drink. When the
celebrations were over, they came back to their the city and went to
the temple.

The temple was on the top of Zaqqura in the city of Urr. There was a
row of numerous gods made of stone.

The people of Babylon worshipped the sun, the moon, the stars, Venus,
and the King.

At that time, over four thousand years ago, Namrud b. Kan'an was the
king. He imprisoned and killed people. He took whatever he wanted of
their crops. So some people worshipped him because they were afraid of
his power.

In spring people went to the temple carrying gifts such as goats and
wheat. They offered them to their gods so that they might be pleased
with them and to bless them.

Some people were fortune?tellers and astrologers, so the King himself
asked them for advice, and people gave them gifts, for they were
afraid of them.

The Birth Of Prophet Ibrahim

One day the fortune?tellers of the temple came to Namrud and said to
him: "The stars have told us that a baby boy will be born. He will end
your kingdom."

Namrud asked with anxiety: "When will he be born?"

The fortune?tellers replied: "He will be born in this year."

In that year Namrud ordered all the male babies to be killed.

Our Prophet Ibrahim, Allah's friend, was born in that year.

His mother feared for his safety, so she took him and went to a cave.
She put him in the cave and went home.

No one knew what had happened. Namrud killed many male babies in that
year. The mothers wept over their babies. Some babies were only a few
months old; some were only a few days old; some were only a few hours
old.

Namrud was afraid of the foretold baby. The year passed, so Namrud
became calm, for he had killed all the male babies.

Our Prophet Ibrahim was born in the city of Kawthariya, near Urr and
Babylon. He grew up in the cave.

Allah, our Lord took care of him. He taught him how to suckle his
fingers in order to survive.

Namrud wanted to kill Ibrahim, but Allah wanted him to live. Allah
wanted Ibrahim to guide the pagan people so that they would worship
Him.

Ibrahim grew up in the cave. One day his mother came to the cave. She
embraced, kissed, and took him home. The soldiers of Namrud thought
that Ibrahim was two or three years old. They did not realize that he
was only a few weeks old, so did not take him away.

Idols

At that time, people worshipped idols. They worshipped Mardukh? the
God of Gods?, Ay?the God of Justice and Law?, Seen?the God of Heaven?,
Ishtar, and many others. Many people worshipped Venus, the moon, and
the sun. At that time, no one worshipped Allah, the Glorified. Our
Prophet Ibrahim was born and grew up at that time.

Azar

Azar was an astrologer. He made idols that represented different gods.
Namrud himself consulted him.

Our Prophet Ibrahim lived in Azar's house, for Azar was his uncle. For
this reason, our Prophet Ibrahim called Azar: "My father."

When Ibrahim grew up into a young man, Allah, the Glorified, blessed
him with great intelligence. As he had a clean and pure heart, he did
not believe in idols nor did he prostrate himself to them. He was
amazed to find the people worshipping the very idols that they had
made with their own hands! He knew that Allah was greater than those
idols.

When it got dark, Ibrahim went to the city to look for the truth.

There was light only in the temple. The people who worshipped Venus
looked at the sky humbly. They thought that Venus was their god, and
that it supplied them with their livelihood and gave them blessings.

Ibrahim stood up with them looking at the sky. He was looking for the
truth. He was searching for the true Creator of the world. In the
meantime, the moon shone. It appeared in the sky sending its silvery
light.

Our Prophet Ibrahim was a wise young man. He wanted the people to
correct their corrupt beliefs. He wanted to say to them that Allah was
greater than their idols. Therefore, he said to them: "The moon is my
lord!

The people who worshipped Venus turned to him and asked him: "Why have
you chosen the moon as your lord?"

Ibrahim answered: "Venus has set, so it is not a true god; the true
god should not set!"

Time passed, and the moon passed through the sky until it
disappeared.

After an hour, the sun shone, so Ibrahim said: "That is my lord! That
is greater!"

Some people believed in Ibrahim's words when they said to each other:
"Perhaps, he is right because the sun gives us light and warmth
only."

When the sunset and it got dark, Ibrahim looked at the sky and said:
"I am going to refrain from worshipping the sun, for it sets and the
true god should not set! Now, I am going to worship Allah, Who has
created Venus, the moon, the sun, the earth, and all of us."

The Believing Young Man

Ibrahim said: "I am not afraid of the idol gods nor am I afraid of
Namrud." These words of his spread through the city, so all the people
knew that he mocked their gods.

When Ibrahim was 16 years of age, all the people of Babylon knew that
he did not worship their gods, and that he mocked them.

One day, Azar, Abraham's uncle, saw Ibrahim making an idol more
beautiful than those he made. In the beginning, he was glad, for he
thought that Ibrahim would take care of the idols in the temple, but,
at last, he was sad when he saw him breaking the idol into pieces.

Azar was angry with Ibrahim, so he said to him: "Ibrahim, why have you
broken the god into pieces? Are you not afraid of the anger of the
gods?"

Ibrahim politely answered: "Father, why do you worship what neither
hears nor sees nor avails you in the least? Father, do not worship
Satan. Surely, Satan is disobedient to the Most Merciful (Allah)."

Azar said angrily: "Do you dislike my gods, Ibrahim? If you do not
desist, I will certainly revile you. And leave me for a time."

Ibrahim greeted Azar before leaving his house, saying: "Peace be on
you. I will pray to my Lord to forgive you. Surely, He is ever
Affectionate to me."

Ibrahim prayed to his Lord to guide Azar into the light and faith.

He separated himself from people to worship Allah, the One and Only.
People went to their temples all the time. They bowed to idols and
gave them gifts, but Ibrahim did not bend to idols nor did he give
them gifts.

Spring

All the people worshipped idols, the stars, the sun, and the moon.
They also worshipped Namrud, the King. Thus, our Prophet Ibrahim
thought of a way to guide them to worship Allah, the One and Only.

Spring came, so flowers opened, and the river was full of water.

People rejoiced at spring; they celebrated the arrival of spring,
fertility, and growth.

At that time people went outside the city to hold their celebrations.
They ate, danced, and played. Then they returned to the city to give
gifts to their gods and fortune-tellers.

When people got ready to go outside the city, our Prophet Ibrahim did
not go with them, so they asked him: "Ibrahim, why do you not go with
us?"

"I'm ill," replied our Prophet Ibrahim.

Our Prophet Ibrahim was sad for his people, for they did not know the
right path.

Our Prophet Ibrahim was different from his people, for his clothes
were clean, and he cut his nails and hair.

All the people, including Namrud and the fortune-tellers, went outside
the city to celebrate spring.

Our Prophet Ibrahim stayed in the city. He took an axe and went to the
great temple. There were many idols in the temple. Some of them were
small; some were big

There was a very big idol. People called the idol Mardukh, the God of
Gods.

The temple was completely empty when our Prophet Ibrahim entered it.
There was nothing inside it except idols and the bad smell of blood
and meat.

Our Prophet Ibrahim looked at idols, and then he asked himself: "Why
do my people worship idols that do not help them?"

The idols were motionless at their places. They did not move or speak
or do anything.

Our Prophet Ibrahim asked the idols angrily: "Why don't you eat?"

There was no answer except his words that echoed in the empty temple.

Our Prophet Ibrahim wanted to destroy the idols to show the people
that their idols were mere stones.

So he drew his axe and began destroying the faces of the idol gods,
and then he broke the idols into pieces.

When he reached the biggest of the gods, he did not destroy it. He
only hung his axe on its shoulder and left the temple.

He looked at the sky and saw white pigeons flying peacefully in the
sky.

When the spring celebrations had ended, the people of Babylon came
back to the city.

The dark night had covered the city, so it was time for the people to
give their gods gifts.

They went to the Great Temple in a long procession carrying torches,
and gifts.

The fortune-tellers led the procession.

The fortune-tellers and the people were astonished to see their gods
destroyed.

The gods had been broken into pieces. All the gods had become ruins
except the biggest one.

The biggest of the gods had been motionless in its place for many
years. However, it now carried an axe on one of its shoulders.

No one walked towards the biggest of the gods to ask it what had
happened.

The biggest of the gods was also silent as usual, for it was a mere
stone.

Noise broke out when the fortune-tellers asked each other: "Who has
destroyed our sacred gods?"

One of them answered: "I always hear a young man called Ibrahim mock
the gods. He says that they are useless. So I think that he has broken
them." Accordingly, the fortune-tellers were very angry with Ibrahim.

The Trial

Namrud came to the temple because something dangerous had happened. He
feared for his throne, so he ordered Ibrahim to be arrested. He
ordered him to be tried in the temple.

The judge sat beside Namrud in the temple, which was full of people.

The soldiers brought the young man, Ibrahim. They made him stop before
Namrud and the judge.

The trial started with the judge's questions.

The judge asked Ibrahim: "We know that you mock our gods. We also know
that you don't celebrate the arrival of spring as the people of
Babylon do.

"Now, tell us who has broken our gods. Have you broken them,
Ibrahim?"

Ibrahim replied calmly: "No, the biggest one has broken them. Ask it
if it can speak."

All the people looked at the biggest of the gods, which was carrying
an axe on one of its shoulders. They knew that it did not speak

The judge asked Ibrahim: "You know that the gods cannot speak, and
that they cannot answer."

Thus, Ibrahim asked: "So why do you worship what you have made with
your own hands?

"Why do you worship idols that do not harm nor avail anyone nor speak
nor receive your gifts?"

All the people bowed their heads. The judge also bowed his head. They
asked each other: " Ibrahim's right. Gods shouldn't be made of stone.
Why do we worship idols that have neither soul nor life?"

The fortune?tellers were angry with Ibrahim. They did not want people
to follow the right path, for their power would come to an end.

Thus, they shouted: "Don't forgive Ibrahim, for he's destroyed the
sacred gods! Don't forgive him, he's destroyed our gods that give us
blessings and fertility!"

Namrud supported the fortune?tellers. He remembered their previous
prophecy: "A person will be born, and he will destroy your kingdom."

Thus, he said with anger: " Ibrahim has committed a crime! Judge you
must punish him!"

All the people stood up for Namrud and supported him.

Then Namrud said: "We must protect our sacred gods! We must punish
Ibrahim by throwing him into the fire!"

Very few people felt sad for Ibrahim. Among them were Sarah, Ibrahim
's cousin, and Lot.

Sarah was a wise young lady. She believed Ibrahim's words. Lot was
also a wise man. He believed in Allah, the One and Only, and the
message of our Prophet Ibrahim.

Our Prophet Ibrahim was imprisoned until the people gathered a lot of
wood and made a big fire to throw him into it.

At that time Namrud wanted to discuss with Ibrahim about Allah the One
and Only.

Ibrahim came to Namrud's palace, He stopped before him. He neither
bowed nor prostrated to him.

Our Prophet Ibrahim was afraid of no one except Allah. He worshipped
nobody except Allah, the Glorified

Namrud asked Ibrahim "Ibrahim who is the God you worship?

Our Prophet Ibrahim replied: "I worship Allah Who gives life to the
dead and brings death the living."

Again with haughtiness Namrud said: "I also enliven people and make
them die!"

He clapped his hand and commanded his guards: "Bring me two prisoners?
one who has been sentenced to imprisonment and the other has been
sentenced to death "

The guards brought him two chained prisoners.

Namrud commanded the swordsman: "Cut off the head of this prisoner.
Then release the one who has sentenced to death."

Namrud turned to Ibrahim and asked him: "Did you see what I did. I
brought death to the prisoner who was only sentenced to imprisonment
and gave life to the one sentenced to death."

Our Prophet Ibrahim refrained from discussing with Namrud on such a
matter, for what Namrud had done was incorrect. For this reason he
asked him: "I worship my Lord, for He makes the sun rise in the east.
Can you make it rise in the west?"

Namrud was astonished at Abraham's question, for no one had asked him
such question before.

However, Namrud kept silent. He was unable to answer.

The Four Birds

Once again Namrud discussed with Ibrahim on the matter of life and
death.

He said to him: "I can give life to people and bring death to them.
However, your Lord is unable to do that. You only claim that."

Again the guards brought Ibrahim out of prison. They made him stop
before Namrud, who asked him: "Don't you say that your Lord give life
to people and bring death to them die? Come on, show me that!"

Our Prophet Ibrahim looked at the sky and said: "My Lord's power is
over all things!"

Then Ibrahim raised his hands towards the sky and said: "My Lord, show
me how You give life to the dead."

Allah, our Lord, asked: "What! Do you not believe?"

Our Prophet Ibrahim replied: "Yes, but in order that my heart may be
at ease."

Then Allah, the Most High, ordered Ibrahim to take four birds,
slaughter them, and then to put parts of their bodies on four
mountains.

No one was able to give life to the four dead birds except Allah, Who
created all things and gives life to man, animals, and plants.

Our Prophet Ibrahim stood on one of the mountains and shouted at the
top of his voice: "Slaughtered birds, come to me with the permission
of Allah!"

Then a wonderful thing happened. The heads of the birds returned to
their bodies. Then their wings and their souls came back.

The birds' hearts began beating. Their wings began flapping. Then the
birds flew high in the sky. They quickly sat at the feet of our
Prophet Ibrahim and he prostrated to Allah, the Almighty Creator.
However, Namrud disbelieved in this sign and commanded his guards to
take Ibrahim to prison.

The Great Fire

The people of Babylon had a lot of oil, tar, and sulfur. They
therefore decided to make the greatest fire in their country in order
to punish our Prophet Ibrahim, who destroyed their gods.

Thus, they gathered wood outside the city for over a month and poured
tar and oil on it.

The day of carrying out the punishment of Ibrahim came, so the people
of Babylon went to see his punishment.

Namrud's soldiers brought our Prophet Ibrahim, and then the fortune?
tellers came and made a great fire. The wood burnt quickly because it
had been soaked with oil and tar.

The flames of the fire were tens of meters high.

The people of Babylon retreated so that the fire would not burn them.
As for our Prophet Ibrahim, he looked calmly at the fire, for he
believed in Allah and was not afraid of anybody or anything except
Him.

Ibrahim's hands were tied. The fortune?tellers thought that he would
be afraid of the fire, and that he would apologize to them for
destroying their gods. However, Ibrahim was waiting calmly for his
fate.

Then a problem arose, for no one was able to approach that great and
furious fire.

The fortune?tellers asked each other: "How can we throw Ibrahim into
the fire?" So they held a meeting and thought about a way to solve the
problem. One of them suggested a satanic idea: "We must put Ibrahim in
a catapult."

The fortune?teller drew a picture of the catapult on the ground. The
picture was Satanic, for the catapult would be able to throw Ibrahim
in the fire from far away.

The workers started building the catapult. Once it was ready, the
soldiers brought Ibrahim and put him in it, but he was still very
calm.

The people were looking at the young man, Ibrahim. They were
astonished at his patience and firmness.

At that critical moment an angel came to Ibrahim and asked him: "Do
you need any help?" Namrud's soldiers brought our Prophet Ibrahim, and
then the fortune?tellers came and made a great fire.

Ibrahim thought of nothing except Allah, the Glorified. He only asked
Him for help.

He asked Allah, the Great and Almighty, to fulfill his need when he
said to the angel: "I don't need anyone except Allah. I won't ask
anybody to meet my need except Him."

Ibrahim was loyal to Allah and believed in Him. So Allah, the Most
High, examined his faith and loyalty.

The soldiers drew back the ropes of the catapult. All of a sudden,
Ibrahim was flying into the air and moving to the center of that great
fire.

As Allah the Glorified, created fire and gave it the ability to bum,
He was able to take that ability away from it.

Thus, He, the Glorified, ordered the fire: "O Fire! Be comfort and
peace for Ibrahim."

The flames went on roaring but amazingly?they did not bum Ibrahim.

The fire did not harm Ibrahim. It only burnt the ropes with which the
soldiers had tied him.

The area on which Ibrahim fell became a beautiful garden of flowers,
but the fire surrounded the garden.

The flames of the fire went on burning in space, but they were comfort
and peace for Ibrahim.

Allah, the Glorified, tested Ibrahim. He knew his loyalty. So He
honored him, saved him from the fire, and supported him against his
enemies.

Namrud waited for the fire to die out. He wanted to know the fate of
Ibrahim in order to celebrate his victory over him.

The fire was very great, so it went on burning for days and nights.
Then it gradually abated and died out.

Namrud went to the fire to see what had happened to Ibrahim. He wanted
to know whether Ibrahim had turned into ashes or not

Namrud and the people of Babylon were astonished at seeing Ibrahim
alive. They understood that the Lord of Ibrahim was Powerful, Great,
and Almighty. So they left Ibrahim to lead a peaceful life.

http://www.sibtayn.com/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4930&Itemid=605

On Jan 18, 11:52 am, arah <araharah2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hindu Brahmin Preist revert back to Islam Part1
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBI3lwV_ukc


And/or Www.mantra.com/jai Dr. Jai Maharaj
2012-01-19 13:05:53 EST
In article <6e4e0ee2-9c37-4167-a3a3-d92149d34029@r10g2000pbl.googlegroups.com>,
"*9@lycos.com" <mythbuster69@lycos.com> posted:
>
> Probably the priest has not read this article by a Muslim as found in
>
> http://www.islam-watch.org/index.php?id=598&option=com_content&task=view
>
> Incest in Islam
>
> Wednesday, 01 December 2010 16:21 Abul Kasem
>
> Prophet Muhammad's incestuous marriage to his daughter-in-law Zaynab
> in well known. But not many people know that Quranic verses also leave
> scope for marriage with one's biological daughter and Shafii Islam,
> indeed, allows it...
>
> (Caution: This essay may offend some readers)
>
> Introduction
>
> The Oxford Dictionary defines incest as sexual intercourse between
> near relations.
>
> Elaborating on this Encyclopaedia Britannica (CD ROM version) writes:
>
> Generally speaking, the closer the genetic relationship between two
> people, the stronger and more highly charged is the taboo prohibiting
> or discouraging sexual relations between them. Thus, sexual
> intercourse between a father and daughter, a mother and son, or a
> brother and sister is almost universally forbidden. Sexual relations
> between an uncle and niece or between an aunt and nephew are also
> generally taboo, and relations between first cousins are prohibited as
> well in some societies.
>
> On the harmful effect of incestuous relation Encyclopaedia Britannica
> also writes:
>
> Highly inbred populations have diminished reproductive success and
> become gene pools for hereditary disorders.
>
> Incest in the Qur'an: Marriage between father and his biological
> daughter
>
> Muslims will find it hard to believe that Allah in the Qur'an has
> violated the universal condemnation of incest. Let us read verse
> 4:23-24 which lists the categories of women that a Muslim man may not
> marry.
>
> 004.023 (Yusuf Ali)
> YUSUFALI: Prohibited to you (For marriage) are:- Your mothers,
> daughters, sisters; father's sisters, Mother's sisters; brother's
> daughters, sister's daughters; foster-mothers (Who gave you suck),
> foster-sisters; your wives' mothers; your step-daughters under your
> guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone in,- no
> prohibition if ye have not gone in;- (Those who have been) wives of
> your sons proceeding from your loins; and two sisters in wedlock at
> one and the same time, except for what is past; for Allah is Oft-
> forgiving, Most Merciful;-
> 004.024
> YUSUFALI: Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those
> whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions)
> against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek
> (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity,
> not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their
> dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed,
> agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is
> All-knowing, All-wise.
>
> One might think that verse 4:23 specifically prohibits a man from
> marrying (that is, to have sex) with his biological daughter. However,
> this may not be so. Hashim Kamali, one of the most eminent scholars of
> Islamic Jurisprudence and currently the Professor of Islamic Law and
> Jurisprudence at International Islamic University Malaysia writes:
>
> An example of the zanni in the Qur'an is the text which reads,
> 'prohibited to you are your mothers and your daughters' (al-Nisa'
> 4:23). The text is definitive in regard to the prohibition of marriage
> with one's mother and daughter and there is no disagreement on this
> point. However, the word banatakum ('your daughters') could be taken
> for its literal meaning, which would be a female child born to a
> person either through marriage or through zina, or for its juridical
> meaning. In the latter sense 'banatukum' can only mean a legitimate
> daughter.
>
> The jurists are in disagreement as to which of these meanings should
> be read into text. The Hanafis have upheld the first of the two
> meanings and have ruled on the prohibition of marriage to one's
> illegitimate daughter, whereas the Shafis have upheld the second.
> According to this interpretation, marriage with one's illegitimate
> daughter is not forbidden as the text only refers to a daughter
> through marriage. It would follow from this that the illegitimate
> daughter has no right to inheritance, and the rules of guardianship
> and custody would not apply to her. (Hashim Kamali, pp. 21-23)
>
> Note: The Qur'an scholars divide the Qur'anic verses into two classes:
> qati--definitive, no speculation and zanni--speculative. Even the
> eminent Sharia expert Professor Hashim Kamali admits that the Qur'an
> is ambiguous. (Hashim Kamali, p. 33.)
>
> This will be a bombshell to the Muslims. Hashim Kamali testifies that
> at least one sect of Islam (that is, Shafi) allows a Muslim man to
> marry his biological daughter and have sex with her if the daughter
> has been born illegitimate.
>
> We may wonder how a Muslim man could have an illegitimate daughter
> since in Islam all sex out of marriage, except sex with one's sex-
> slaves, is forbidden. Let us ponder on the following situations:
>
> A Muslim unmarried man has sex with a Muslim unmarried woman.
> The woman gives birth to a daughter. Because of their Zina, both of
> them receive one hundred lashes. The punishment over, they depart---
> going their own way, or they decide to marry, but the daughter remains
> illegitimate. When the daughter turns eight or ten the biological
> father marries his daughter.
>
> This incestuous marriage is allowed by the Shafi rule, according to
> professor Kamali. If they are Hanafi or other sect the father may not
> marry the illegitimate daughter.
>
> A Muslim unmarried man (of Shafii sect) has sex with a Kafir woman.
> She gives birth to a daughter. The father receives the Islamic
> lashing. The woman may go scot free depending on which Islamic country
> she resides, because in some Islamic countries non-Muslims are exempt
> from Sharia laws. The illegitimate daughter lives with her mother.
> When the illegitimate daughter turns eight or more she becomes halal
> for her biological father. He marries his biological daughter.
>
> A Muslim unmarried man commits adultery with a married Muslim woman.
> She becomes pregnant. As per Sharia law the man receives one hundred
> lashes and the woman is sentenced to be stoned to death. However, her
> stoning is postponed until she gives birth to her child and weans the
> baby of breastfeeding. This condemned woman gives birth to a daughter.
> At age two the baby girl is taken away from her mother. Then the
> mother is stoned to death. The hapless child may be sheltered in a
> foster home or even live with her biological father. When the daughter
> turns eight her biological father marries her.
>
> Let us ponder on what might happen if a Hanafi unmarried man has
> illicit sex with a Shafi married woman
>
> Presumably, Malaysia follows Shafi, Bangladesh follows Hanafi.
>
> Malaysian married Muslim woman + Bangladesh unmarried man = Zina and
> adultery.
>
> Malaysia's religious police catch them in action. Both of them receive
> Islamic punishment as per Shafi law. The woman may not receive
> stoning--as it is not enforced in Malaysia.
>
> The woman gives birth to a girl--this is the illegitimate daughter to
> the man. Let us call her daughter A.
>
> What about the woman? Will the daughter be illegitimate to the mother?
> As per Islamic rule, yes. Later, the woman's husband divorces her. She
> moves on, along with her illegitimate daughter.
>
> The sex offender man marries the woman. May be, the wife gives birth
> to another daughter--this time legitimate. Call this daughter B.
>
> Now, as per Islamic Law can we say A and B are sisters? Nope.
>
> The entire family lives under one roof. When A, the illegitimate
> daughter, turns 8 or more, the biological father marries her.
>
> He now has two wives--his sex partner wife + his own illegitimate
> daughter. That is, the man is simultaneously married to the mother and
> the daughter.
>
> So, Islamically, he may have sex with his biological daughter and her
> mother--perfectly legal as per Shafi rule.
>
> I am not sure if this incidence happened, say in Bangladesh or India
> or Pakistan, what would happen as these countries follow Hanafi Muslim
> laws.
>
> We must remember when a Muslim lives in Malaysia whether he is a
> Malaysian citizen or not he must abide by the Islamic Sharia of
> Malaysia which is largely Shafi.
>
> Sex between sons and their father's concubines
>
> Stepping further on verse 4:23-24, it may even be Islamically possible
> for a son to have sexual intercourse with his father's concubines or
> father's sex partners. In this case the mother is not a biological
> mother, but still a mother, no matter what--just as step mother.
>
> On the restrictions women who can be married as depicted in 4:23-24
> Maulana Maududi writes:
>
> The word 'mother' applies to one's step-mother as well as to one's
> real mother. Hence the prohibition extends to both. This injunction
> also includes prohibition of the grandmother, both paternal and
> maternal. There is disagreement on whether a woman with whom a father
> has had an unlawful sexual relationship is prohibited to his son or
> not. There are some among the early authorities who do not believe in
> such prohibition. But there are others who go so far as to say that a
> woman whom a father has touched with sexual desire becomes prohibited
> to the son. (Maududi 4/34.)
>
> Incestuous marriages among close blood relations
>
> Here is another verse from the Qur'an that may suggest that incestuous
> marriages are permissible in Islam.
>
> 025.054
> YUSUFALI: It is He Who has created man from water: then has He
> established relationships of lineage and marriage: for thy Lord has
> power (over all things).
>
> Eminent tafsir writer Jalalyn writes:
>
> And it is He who created human beings from water (sperm) and then gave
> them relations by blood and marriage--because men and women marry to
> seek progeny. Your Lord is All Powerful, possessing the power to do
> whatever He wills. (Tafsir Jalalyn, Tr. Aisha Bewley, p. 781).
>
> Some scholars say this verse allows Muslim men to have sex with their
> daughters [incest]. See this video (Reader may find the video has been
> removed from the first link. When I tested I found the second link
> working.)
>
> Marriage between father-in-law and wife of an adopted son
>
> In the Arab society in which Muhammad lived the tradition of adoption
> was noble and sanctified. Their adopted sons were like their own
> biological sons and the wives of adopted sons were like their own
> daughter-in-laws. Zayd bin Haritha was Muhammad's adopted son.
> Muhammad even got Zayd married to his (Muhammad's) cousin sister
> Zaynab bt. Jahsh (Tabari, p. ix.134). But later, when Muhammad saw her
> beauty and sex appeal, he became passionate to have sex with her. In
> the Arab society this kind of marriage between father-in-law and
> daughter-in-law, whether of adopted son or not, was considered
> incestuous. But Muhammad did not care. He sought Allah's help, and
> Allah promptly sent down appropriate verses to let Muhammad satisfy
> his desire. Zaynab became Muhammad's eighth wife. Accordingly, Allah
> also changed the adoption rule--He permitted Muslims to marry their
> adopted sons' wives after they obtain divorce from their husbands
> (33:37). Even Tabari and Waqidi admit that Muhammad married his cousin
> sister Zaynab bt Jahsh out of last (Tabari, p. viii. xii). Here is
> what the eminent Islamic historian Tabari writes about this
> 'incestous' marriage of Muhammad.
>
> Muhammad had uncontrolled fascination for Zaynab bt. Jahsh
>
> The Messenger of God came to the house of Zayd b. Harithah. (Zayd was
> always called Zayd b. Muhammad.) Perhaps the Messenger of God missed
> him at that moment, so as to ask, "Where is Zayd?" He came to his
> residence to look for him but did not find him. Zaynab bt. Jahsh,
> Zayd's wife, rose to look for him but did not find him. Because she
> was dressed only in a shift, the Messenger of God turned away from
> her. She said: "He is not here, Messenger of God. Come in, you are as
> dear to me as my father and mother!" The Messenger of God refused to
> enter. Zaynab had dressed in haste where she was told "the Messenger
> of God is at the door." She jumped up in haste and excited the
> admiration of the Messenger of God, so that he turned away murmuring
> something that could scarcely be understood. However, he did say
> overtly: "Glory be to God the Almighty! Glory be to God, who causes
> hearts to turn!" (Tabari, p. viii.2)
>
> While the Messenger of God was talking with A'ishah, a fainting
> overcame him. When he was released from it, he smiled and said, "Who
> will go to Zaynab to tell her the good news, saying that God has
> married her to me?" Then the Messenger of God recited: "And when you
> said unto him on whom God has conferred favour and you have conferred
> favour, "Keep your wife to yourself..." (33:37)--and the entire passage.
> (ibid, p. viii.3)
>
> In-breeding: Cousin Marriages
>
> In Islam cousin marriage is quite popular and widely acceptable.
> Cousin marriages, especially among first cousins, are a potentially
> harmful practice because the children born out of such marriages
> suffer from many genetic disorders. A comprehensive article about this
> debilitating practice among Muslims can be read here: Muslim
> Inbreeding: Impacts on intelligence, sanity, health and society
>
> Let us find out why Muslims are more likely to indulge in first cousin
> marriage than other communities.
>
> 033.050
> YUSUFALI: O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom
> thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses
> out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and
> daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy
> maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and
> any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the
> Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the
> Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to
> their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order
> that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-
> Forgiving, Most Merciful.
>
> This verse unabashedly permitted Muhammad to have sex with his first
> cousin sisters even without marrying them. Why Allah permitted
> Muhammad to indulge in such a reckless incestuous relationship? For
> the answer, we need to know the context of this verse. A hadis in
> Tirmidhi (print version) tells us this:
>
> Muhammad proposed Umm Hani, his cousin sister, to marry him. She
> declined. So Allah revealed that Muhammad could have sex with his
> cousin sisters who had migrated to Medina without marrying them
> (33:50). Umm Hani said though she was Muhammad's cousin sister,
> Muhammad could not have sex with her as she did not migrate to Medina.
> She only embraced Islam after Muhammad had conquered Mecca. (Daif)...
> (Tirmidhi 5.3214)
>
> Here is the complete Hadis:
>
> Tirmidhi, vol. 5, Hadis 3214, p. 522
> Umm Hani bint Abu Talib said: "The Messenger of Allah proposed to me,
> but I asked him to excuse me, so he did excuse me. Then Allah [Most
> High] revealed: "Verily We have made lawful to you your wives, to whom
> you have paid their due, and those whom your right hands possess--whom
> Allah has given to you, and the daughters of your paternal uncles, and
> the daughters paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal
> uncles, and the daughters of your maternal aunts, who migrated with
> you, and a believing woman, if she offers herself to the Prophet...
> (33:50). She said: "So I was not lawful for him because I did not
> perform Hijrah; I was one of the Tulaqa.(Daif)
>
> [Abu 'Eisa said:] This Hadith is Hasan [Sahih] we do not know of it
> except from this route as a narration of As-Suddi
>
> [In a footnote the translator describes the Tulaqa are those who
> accepted Islam after the conquest of Makkah.]
>
> The readers should note that Abu 'Eisa is Imam Tirmidhi's kunya (that
> is, father of 'Eisa). According to Imam Tirmidhi this Hadis is Hasan,
> meaning it is a reliable Hadis.
>
> Umm Hani was the daughter of Abu Taleb, Muhammad's uncle. AbuTaleb
> brought up Muhammad in his home. Muhammad fell deeply in love with Umm
> Hani, but was greatly aggrieved when he asked to marry her but Abu
> Taleb refused. This meant Abu Taleb, a Meccan pagan, did not like
> first cousin marriage. But, as demonstrated in the above verse, Allah
> found a way to satisfy Muhammad's desire to have sex with his old
> flame.
>
> The truth was: although Allah said in the verse that those of
> Muhammad's first cousin sisters who had migrated with him to Medina
> were eligible to have sex with him, Muhammad never followed Allah's
> instruction. The great Islamic scholar Maulana Maududi writes:
>
> The ladies from among his first cousins, who emigrated along with him.
> The words "who emigrated with you" do not mean that they accompanied
> the Holy Prophet in his migration journey but this that they also had
> migrated in the way of Allah for the sake of Islam. The Holy Prophet
> was given the choice to marry any one of them he liked. Accordingly,
> in A.H. 7 he married Hadrat Umm Habibah. (Incidentally, in this verse
> it has been elucidated that the daughters of one's paternal and
> maternal uncles and aunts are lawful for a Muslim. In this regard the
> Islamic Law is different both from the Christian Law and from the
> Jewish Law. Among the Christians one cannot marry a woman whose line
> of descent joins one's own anywhere in the last seven generations, and
> among the Jews it is permissible even to marry one's real niece, i.e.
> daughter of one's brother or sister. (Maududi 33/87.)
>
> To justify the marriage between first cousins among Muslims, Maulana
> Maududi cites irrelevant matters of the Jews and the Christians. While
> currently, the first cousin marriage among the Jews and the Christians
> is indeed rare, the same may not be true for the Muslims as the
> statistics from the above article demonstrates.
>
> In fact, Dr. Mahathir the former Prime Minister of Malaysia was so
> concerned about the first cousin marriages among the Muslims in
> Malaysia that he wrote a book, The Malay Dilemma. In this book Dr
> Mahathir postulated that one of the main reasons for the absolute
> backwardness of Malays is due to their practice of in-breeding. He was
> a medical professional. He wrote that because of in-breeding the
> Malays have a very limited genetic pool.
>
> Here are a few excerpts from Dr Mahathir's book The Malay Dilemma.
>
> Generally speaking, modern ideas on the evolution of man are not
> acceptable to Muslims and therefore to Malays. But even Malays admit
> that certain characteristics are passed from parents to offspring.
> "Bapak borek, anak beritek" is a well-known Malay saying which means
> "A spotted father begets a speckled son." The meaning is obvious. If
> this is so for an individual then hereditary influence must play a
> role in the development of a collection of individuals which
> constitutes a race. What is not generally known by the Malays is the
> effect of in-breeding.
>
> In this book I have explained how the laws of genetics, which govern
> the transmission of hereditary characteristics, are affected adversely
> by in-breeding and other marriage practices.
>
> There has been a lot of scientific thinking on the subject of
> in-breeding and the effect on human society. Cyril Dean Darlington, a
> British geneticist, in his book, The Evolution of Man and Society,
> takes the extreme view that the evolution of human society is the
> product of genes. According to him, civilizations flourish and decay
> in obedience to genetic decrees. He pointed out that once a ruling
> class fixed itself in power, it sought to conserve that power by
> in-breeding, thus denying the infusion of fresh stock. It was this
> habit, according to Darligton, that expedited the decline of the
> Pharaohs, the Ptolemies and the Caesars.
>
> This interesting hypothesis is perhaps too extreme to be generally
> accepted even by non-Muslims. In any case, Darligton was referring
> mainly to incest, a practice which is unknown among the Malays.
> However, the modern definition of in-breeding includes marriages
> between first cousins and other close relatives, a practice fairly
> common among the Malays. Hereditary influence also produces an adverse
> effect in a society which, abhorring celibacy, insists that everyone,
> fit or unfit, should marry. Thus, the deformed in mind and body are
> somehow paired off and reproduce.
>
> While it must be admitted that inbreeding is not general among the
> Malays, what cannot be denied is that the instances of in-breeding are
> greater among them than among the other major races in Malaysia--the
> Chinese. In fact Chinese marriage customs specifically prevents
> in-breeding. And so it is correct to say that in-breeding together
> with forced marriages of the unfit produce a much greater percentage
> of human failures among Malays as compared with other races.
>
> This explanation is offered in mitigation and defence of my views.
> Nevertheless it is not expected that they will be easily accepted. The
> implications are too depressing and hold no promise of easy or rapid
> remedies. (Dr Mahathir Mohamad, The Malay Dilemma, p. 1, 2.)
>
> Mendel's law states that offspring are not intermediate in type
> between the two parents, but that the type of one or the other is
> predominant according to a fixed law. The importance of this law lies
> in its rejection of the popular concept that offspring must be a
> dilution of the opposing characters of the parents.
>
> Mendels's Law is best illustrated by experiments in breeding white and
> brown mice. Provided that a sufficiently large series of experiments
> is carried out, the mating of white and brown mice will produce not
> spotted or brownish white mice but white mice predominantly. But if
> this (sic) first generation of white mice are mated among themselves,
> the offspring are not all white but a mixture of pure white and pure
> brown in the proportion of three whites to one brown. The point this
> illustrates is that white is a dominant characteristic which shows up
> in the first generation. However, even though the first generation
> appears pure white, it has a hidden brown factor which is
> transmissible to the next generation. But this brown factor is weak as
> shown by the fact that only one in four of the second generation is
> brown in colour. (Dr Mahathir Mohamad, The Malay Dilemma, p. 17)
>
> A dominant characteristic tends to cancel a recessive characteristic,
> and it is clear that if the parents have different sets of dominant
> characteristics, then the offspring will have a combination of all the
> dominant characteristics of the parents. It follows therefore that the
> best offspring are those resulting from parents with different good
> dominant characteristics. Thus since close relatives tend to resemble
> each other and the chances of carrying similar recessive
> characteristics are greater, marriage between such relatives will not
> produce the best offspring. On the other hand, as unrelated people
> have more differences in characteristic, a marriage between such
> people would tend to produce ideal offspring with good dominant
> characteristics of both parents, while the recessive characteristics
> are cancelled. (Dr Mahathir Mohamad, The Malay Dilemma, p. 18-19)
>
> Predictably, after the first publication of The Malay Dilemma, the
> Malaysian Government banned it, and Dr Mahathir was expelled from the
> Malaysia's most dominant Muslim party UMNO (United Malays National
> Organisation). Malaysian Law stipulates that all Malays are, by
> definition, Muslims. A few years later, Dr Mahathir was again admitted
> into UMNO, and he finally became the UMNO president, but his book The
> Malay Dilemma remained proscribed. Only after Dr Mahathir became the
> Prime Minister of Malaysia, the ban on this controversial book was
> lifted, and republished in 1981.
>
> Admittedly, Dr Mahathir is very knowledgeable in genetics and his
> courage to tell the truth is admirable.
>
> But Dr Mahathir did not have the supreme intrepidity to blame the
> genetic root of Malay backwardness to Islam--more precisely that the
> Malays, being deeply Islamic religious, are simply following Islamic
> rules on first cousin marriage and emulating their prophet, Muhammad.
> Dr Mahathir was too fearful to be seen as anti-islam. He blamed the
> Malays for their proclivity towards in-breeding and not Islam. It was
> too dangerous for him to do so.
>
> Conclusion: Like it or not, Incest in Islam is alive and kicking well
> as can be illustrated from several verses of the Qur'an. The various
> interpretations, often contradictory, just prove that these words
> could not be from Allah. Allah cannot be so dim-witted not to know
> what is best for His Ummah. All-knowing, almighty Allah cannot be so
> careless that He would leave His words in such a manner that what one
> group of Muslims means to be halal may be death to another group of
> Muslims. The topic of incest in Islam is such a dangerous game. It
> also possible that the inherent backward of the Muslim in general
> might be rooted in their limited genetic pool because of incestuous
> marriage practiced in many Islamic nation.
>
> Bibliography:
>
> al-Tabari, Abu Ja'far Muhammad b. Jarir, The Victory of Islam,
> vol. viii. Translated by Michael Fishbein. State University of New
> York Press, Albany, 1997. ISBN 0-7914-3150-9
> al-Tabari, Abu Ja'far Muhammad b. Jarir. The Last Years of the
> Prophet, vol. ix. Translated by Ismail K. Poonwala. State University
> of New York Press, Albany, 1990. ISBN 0-88706-692-5.
> Encyclopaedia Britannica 2007 Ultimate Reference Suite CD ROM
> version.
> Imam Hafiz Abu 'Eisa Mohammad Ibn 'Eisa At-Tirmidhi, Jami'
> At-Tirmidhi (vol. 1-6), Tr. Abu Khaliyl, Final review by Islamic
> Research Section Darussalam, Darussalam, P.O. Box 22743, Riyadh 11416,
> Saudi Arabia, First Ed. November 2007.
> Jalalu'd-Din Al-Mahali and Jalal'ud-Din As-Suyuti. Tafsir
> Al-Jalalyn, translated in English by Aisha Bewley. Dar Al-Taqwa Ltd.
> 7A Melcombe Street, Baker Street, London NW1 6AE, 2007. ISBN:
> 1-870582-61-6
> Kamali, Mohammad Hashim. PRINCIPLES OF Islamic JURISPRUDENCE.First
> published by the Islamic Text Society of Cambridge, U. K.1991. Second
> Revised Edition, sixth printing, 2009. ILMIAH PUBLISHERS SDN. BHD.
> Regalia Business Centre, no. 33, Jalan USJ 1/1C, USJ 1, 47620 Subang
> Jaya, Selangor Darul Ehsan, Malaysia.
> Mohamad, Mahathir Dr. The Malay Dilemma. FEDERAL PUBLICATIONS SDN
> BHD. 8238 Jalan 222, Petaling Jaya, Selangor, Malaysia. 1981. First
> published 1970.
> Maududi: http://www.tafheem.net/main.html
> The three translations of the Qur'an:
>
> http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/reference.html

In article <18489c41-ab96-4517-a5f0-eba050709445@m11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
fanabba <fanabba@aol.com> posted:
>
> On Jan 18, 2:52=A0pm, arah <araharah2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > . . .
>
> Islam is not a religion.
>
> Islam cannot be reformed.
>
> Prophet of Doom
>
> http://www.prophetofdoom.net/
>
> Former Muslims Tell the Truth About Islam
>
> http://www.islam-watch.org/
> http://www.faithfreedom.org/

Dhanyavaad for your post,

Islam is a terrorist cult.

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

Myself Mallu, Yourself?
2012-01-20 23:48:40 EST
On 1/19/2012 9:43 AM, arah wrote:
> The Destroyer of Idols - The Story of Our Prophet Ibrahim
>
> Namrud - Amrood babble deleted
>

Was Lady Kaka involved in the altercation with Namrud or Amrood, or
whatever his name is?

--
VB, Ubetjotushy
'ome=shanty

-----
About the Jihadi Loon Squad:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
A jihadi loon is someone like Jade Muckeraj.

"Jade Muckeraj" aka "The Old Cow of Hawaii" <charlatan@fraudsrus.com>
tries her best to pretend she is a Hindu -- cutting and pasting, and
even doctoring what others post/write about Hindus/Hinduism on the
internet, deliberately pidginizing Sanskrit and providing wrong
translations, inventing brand new books in the Mahabharat (reducing it
to Muckabharat), stalking and abusing people who disagree with her by
hijacking their posts, and then cuts and pastes about Hindu ethics and
moans self-righteously about honesty -- and succeeds spectacularly in
convincing all, except other jihadi loons, that she is not a Hindu.
She is in fact a creepy jihadi loon, who thinks she owns the newsgroup
s.c.indian, and has absolutely no problem slandering anyone. As a
Indian citizen supposedly, she meddles in US political issues, and
advocates civil war in India.

And/or Www.mantra.com/jai Dr. Jai Maharaj
2012-01-21 00:23:11 EST
In article <6e4e0ee2-9c37-4167-a3a3-d92149d34029@r10g2000pbl.googlegroups.com>,
"*9@lycos.com" <mythbuster69@lycos.com> posted:
>
> Probably the priest has not read this article by a Muslim as found in
>
> http://www.islam-watch.org/index.php?id=598&option=com_content&task=view
>
> Incest in Islam
>
> Wednesday, 01 December 2010 16:21 Abul Kasem
>
> Prophet Muhammad's incestuous marriage to his daughter-in-law Zaynab
> in well known. But not many people know that Quranic verses also leave
> scope for marriage with one's biological daughter and Shafii Islam,
> indeed, allows it...
>
> (Caution: This essay may offend some readers)
>
> Introduction
>
> The Oxford Dictionary defines incest as sexual intercourse between
> near relations.
>
> Elaborating on this Encyclopaedia Britannica (CD ROM version) writes:
>
> Generally speaking, the closer the genetic relationship between two
> people, the stronger and more highly charged is the taboo prohibiting
> or discouraging sexual relations between them. Thus, sexual
> intercourse between a father and daughter, a mother and son, or a
> brother and sister is almost universally forbidden. Sexual relations
> between an uncle and niece or between an aunt and nephew are also
> generally taboo, and relations between first cousins are prohibited as
> well in some societies.
>
> On the harmful effect of incestuous relation Encyclopaedia Britannica
> also writes:
>
> Highly inbred populations have diminished reproductive success and
> become gene pools for hereditary disorders.
>
> Incest in the Qur'an: Marriage between father and his biological
> daughter
>
> Muslims will find it hard to believe that Allah in the Qur'an has
> violated the universal condemnation of incest. Let us read verse
> 4:23-24 which lists the categories of women that a Muslim man may not
> marry.
>
> 004.023 (Yusuf Ali)
> YUSUFALI: Prohibited to you (For marriage) are:- Your mothers,
> daughters, sisters; father's sisters, Mother's sisters; brother's
> daughters, sister's daughters; foster-mothers (Who gave you suck),
> foster-sisters; your wives' mothers; your step-daughters under your
> guardianship, born of your wives to whom ye have gone in,- no
> prohibition if ye have not gone in;- (Those who have been) wives of
> your sons proceeding from your loins; and two sisters in wedlock at
> one and the same time, except for what is past; for Allah is Oft-
> forgiving, Most Merciful;-
> 004.024
> YUSUFALI: Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those
> whom your right hands possess: Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions)
> against you: Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek
> (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity,
> not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their
> dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed,
> agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is
> All-knowing, All-wise.
>
> One might think that verse 4:23 specifically prohibits a man from
> marrying (that is, to have sex) with his biological daughter. However,
> this may not be so. Hashim Kamali, one of the most eminent scholars of
> Islamic Jurisprudence and currently the Professor of Islamic Law and
> Jurisprudence at International Islamic University Malaysia writes:
>
> An example of the zanni in the Qur'an is the text which reads,
> 'prohibited to you are your mothers and your daughters' (al-Nisa'
> 4:23). The text is definitive in regard to the prohibition of marriage
> with one's mother and daughter and there is no disagreement on this
> point. However, the word banatakum ('your daughters') could be taken
> for its literal meaning, which would be a female child born to a
> person either through marriage or through zina, or for its juridical
> meaning. In the latter sense 'banatukum' can only mean a legitimate
> daughter.
>
> The jurists are in disagreement as to which of these meanings should
> be read into text. The Hanafis have upheld the first of the two
> meanings and have ruled on the prohibition of marriage to one's
> illegitimate daughter, whereas the Shafis have upheld the second.
> According to this interpretation, marriage with one's illegitimate
> daughter is not forbidden as the text only refers to a daughter
> through marriage. It would follow from this that the illegitimate
> daughter has no right to inheritance, and the rules of guardianship
> and custody would not apply to her. (Hashim Kamali, pp. 21-23)
>
> Note: The Qur'an scholars divide the Qur'anic verses into two classes:
> qati--definitive, no speculation and zanni--speculative. Even the
> eminent Sharia expert Professor Hashim Kamali admits that the Qur'an
> is ambiguous. (Hashim Kamali, p. 33.)
>
> This will be a bombshell to the Muslims. Hashim Kamali testifies that
> at least one sect of Islam (that is, Shafi) allows a Muslim man to
> marry his biological daughter and have sex with her if the daughter
> has been born illegitimate.
>
> We may wonder how a Muslim man could have an illegitimate daughter
> since in Islam all sex out of marriage, except sex with one's sex-
> slaves, is forbidden. Let us ponder on the following situations:
>
> A Muslim unmarried man has sex with a Muslim unmarried woman.
> The woman gives birth to a daughter. Because of their Zina, both of
> them receive one hundred lashes. The punishment over, they depart---
> going their own way, or they decide to marry, but the daughter remains
> illegitimate. When the daughter turns eight or ten the biological
> father marries his daughter.
>
> This incestuous marriage is allowed by the Shafi rule, according to
> professor Kamali. If they are Hanafi or other sect the father may not
> marry the illegitimate daughter.
>
> A Muslim unmarried man (of Shafii sect) has sex with a Kafir woman.
> She gives birth to a daughter. The father receives the Islamic
> lashing. The woman may go scot free depending on which Islamic country
> she resides, because in some Islamic countries non-Muslims are exempt
> from Sharia laws. The illegitimate daughter lives with her mother.
> When the illegitimate daughter turns eight or more she becomes halal
> for her biological father. He marries his biological daughter.
>
> A Muslim unmarried man commits adultery with a married Muslim woman.
> She becomes pregnant. As per Sharia law the man receives one hundred
> lashes and the woman is sentenced to be stoned to death. However, her
> stoning is postponed until she gives birth to her child and weans the
> baby of breastfeeding. This condemned woman gives birth to a daughter.
> At age two the baby girl is taken away from her mother. Then the
> mother is stoned to death. The hapless child may be sheltered in a
> foster home or even live with her biological father. When the daughter
> turns eight her biological father marries her.
>
> Let us ponder on what might happen if a Hanafi unmarried man has
> illicit sex with a Shafi married woman
>
> Presumably, Malaysia follows Shafi, Bangladesh follows Hanafi.
>
> Malaysian married Muslim woman + Bangladesh unmarried man = Zina and
> adultery.
>
> Malaysia's religious police catch them in action. Both of them receive
> Islamic punishment as per Shafi law. The woman may not receive
> stoning--as it is not enforced in Malaysia.
>
> The woman gives birth to a girl--this is the illegitimate daughter to
> the man. Let us call her daughter A.
>
> What about the woman? Will the daughter be illegitimate to the mother?
> As per Islamic rule, yes. Later, the woman's husband divorces her. She
> moves on, along with her illegitimate daughter.
>
> The sex offender man marries the woman. May be, the wife gives birth
> to another daughter--this time legitimate. Call this daughter B.
>
> Now, as per Islamic Law can we say A and B are sisters? Nope.
>
> The entire family lives under one roof. When A, the illegitimate
> daughter, turns 8 or more, the biological father marries her.
>
> He now has two wives--his sex partner wife + his own illegitimate
> daughter. That is, the man is simultaneously married to the mother and
> the daughter.
>
> So, Islamically, he may have sex with his biological daughter and her
> mother--perfectly legal as per Shafi rule.
>
> I am not sure if this incidence happened, say in Bangladesh or India
> or Pakistan, what would happen as these countries follow Hanafi Muslim
> laws.
>
> We must remember when a Muslim lives in Malaysia whether he is a
> Malaysian citizen or not he must abide by the Islamic Sharia of
> Malaysia which is largely Shafi.
>
> Sex between sons and their father's concubines
>
> Stepping further on verse 4:23-24, it may even be Islamically possible
> for a son to have sexual intercourse with his father's concubines or
> father's sex partners. In this case the mother is not a biological
> mother, but still a mother, no matter what--just as step mother.
>
> On the restrictions women who can be married as depicted in 4:23-24
> Maulana Maududi writes:
>
> The word 'mother' applies to one's step-mother as well as to one's
> real mother. Hence the prohibition extends to both. This injunction
> also includes prohibition of the grandmother, both paternal and
> maternal. There is disagreement on whether a woman with whom a father
> has had an unlawful sexual relationship is prohibited to his son or
> not. There are some among the early authorities who do not believe in
> such prohibition. But there are others who go so far as to say that a
> woman whom a father has touched with sexual desire becomes prohibited
> to the son. (Maududi 4/34.)
>
> Incestuous marriages among close blood relations
>
> Here is another verse from the Qur'an that may suggest that incestuous
> marriages are permissible in Islam.
>
> 025.054
> YUSUFALI: It is He Who has created man from water: then has He
> established relationships of lineage and marriage: for thy Lord has
> power (over all things).
>
> Eminent tafsir writer Jalalyn writes:
>
> And it is He who created human beings from water (sperm) and then gave
> them relations by blood and marriage--because men and women marry to
> seek progeny. Your Lord is All Powerful, possessing the power to do
> whatever He wills. (Tafsir Jalalyn, Tr. Aisha Bewley, p. 781).
>
> Some scholars say this verse allows Muslim men to have sex with their
> daughters [incest]. See this video (Reader may find the video has been
> removed from the first link. When I tested I found the second link
> working.)
>
> Marriage between father-in-law and wife of an adopted son
>
> In the Arab society in which Muhammad lived the tradition of adoption
> was noble and sanctified. Their adopted sons were like their own
> biological sons and the wives of adopted sons were like their own
> daughter-in-laws. Zayd bin Haritha was Muhammad's adopted son.
> Muhammad even got Zayd married to his (Muhammad's) cousin sister
> Zaynab bt. Jahsh (Tabari, p. ix.134). But later, when Muhammad saw her
> beauty and sex appeal, he became passionate to have sex with her. In
> the Arab society this kind of marriage between father-in-law and
> daughter-in-law, whether of adopted son or not, was considered
> incestuous. But Muhammad did not care. He sought Allah's help, and
> Allah promptly sent down appropriate verses to let Muhammad satisfy
> his desire. Zaynab became Muhammad's eighth wife. Accordingly, Allah
> also changed the adoption rule--He permitted Muslims to marry their
> adopted sons' wives after they obtain divorce from their husbands
> (33:37). Even Tabari and Waqidi admit that Muhammad married his cousin
> sister Zaynab bt Jahsh out of last (Tabari, p. viii. xii). Here is
> what the eminent Islamic historian Tabari writes about this
> 'incestous' marriage of Muhammad.
>
> Muhammad had uncontrolled fascination for Zaynab bt. Jahsh
>
> The Messenger of God came to the house of Zayd b. Harithah. (Zayd was
> always called Zayd b. Muhammad.) Perhaps the Messenger of God missed
> him at that moment, so as to ask, "Where is Zayd?" He came to his
> residence to look for him but did not find him. Zaynab bt. Jahsh,
> Zayd's wife, rose to look for him but did not find him. Because she
> was dressed only in a shift, the Messenger of God turned away from
> her. She said: "He is not here, Messenger of God. Come in, you are as
> dear to me as my father and mother!" The Messenger of God refused to
> enter. Zaynab had dressed in haste where she was told "the Messenger
> of God is at the door." She jumped up in haste and excited the
> admiration of the Messenger of God, so that he turned away murmuring
> something that could scarcely be understood. However, he did say
> overtly: "Glory be to God the Almighty! Glory be to God, who causes
> hearts to turn!" (Tabari, p. viii.2)
>
> While the Messenger of God was talking with A'ishah, a fainting
> overcame him. When he was released from it, he smiled and said, "Who
> will go to Zaynab to tell her the good news, saying that God has
> married her to me?" Then the Messenger of God recited: "And when you
> said unto him on whom God has conferred favour and you have conferred
> favour, "Keep your wife to yourself..." (33:37)--and the entire passage.
> (ibid, p. viii.3)
>
> In-breeding: Cousin Marriages
>
> In Islam cousin marriage is quite popular and widely acceptable.
> Cousin marriages, especially among first cousins, are a potentially
> harmful practice because the children born out of such marriages
> suffer from many genetic disorders. A comprehensive article about this
> debilitating practice among Muslims can be read here: Muslim
> Inbreeding: Impacts on intelligence, sanity, health and society
>
> Let us find out why Muslims are more likely to indulge in first cousin
> marriage than other communities.
>
> 033.050
> YUSUFALI: O Prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom
> thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses
> out of the prisoners of war whom Allah has assigned to thee; and
> daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy
> maternal uncles and aunts, who migrated (from Makka) with thee; and
> any believing woman who dedicates her soul to the Prophet if the
> Prophet wishes to wed her;- this only for thee, and not for the
> Believers (at large); We know what We have appointed for them as to
> their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess;- in order
> that there should be no difficulty for thee. And Allah is Oft-
> Forgiving, Most Merciful.
>
> This verse unabashedly permitted Muhammad to have sex with his first
> cousin sisters even without marrying them. Why Allah permitted
> Muhammad to indulge in such a reckless incestuous relationship? For
> the answer, we need to know the context of this verse. A hadis in
> Tirmidhi (print version) tells us this:
>
> Muhammad proposed Umm Hani, his cousin sister, to marry him. She
> declined. So Allah revealed that Muhammad could have sex with his
> cousin sisters who had migrated to Medina without marrying them
> (33:50). Umm Hani said though she was Muhammad's cousin sister,
> Muhammad could not have sex with her as she did not migrate to Medina.
> She only embraced Islam after Muhammad had conquered Mecca. (Daif)...
> (Tirmidhi 5.3214)
>
> Here is the complete Hadis:
>
> Tirmidhi, vol. 5, Hadis 3214, p. 522
> Umm Hani bint Abu Talib said: "The Messenger of Allah proposed to me,
> but I asked him to excuse me, so he did excuse me. Then Allah [Most
> High] revealed: "Verily We have made lawful to you your wives, to whom
> you have paid their due, and those whom your right hands possess--whom
> Allah has given to you, and the daughters of your paternal uncles, and
> the daughters paternal aunts and the daughters of your maternal
> uncles, and the daughters of your maternal aunts, who migrated with
> you, and a believing woman, if she offers herself to the Prophet...
> (33:50). She said: "So I was not lawful for him because I did not
> perform Hijrah; I was one of the Tulaqa.(Daif)
>
> [Abu 'Eisa said:] This Hadith is Hasan [Sahih] we do not know of it
> except from this route as a narration of As-Suddi
>
> [In a footnote the translator describes the Tulaqa are those who
> accepted Islam after the conquest of Makkah.]
>
> The readers should note that Abu 'Eisa is Imam Tirmidhi's kunya (that
> is, father of 'Eisa). According to Imam Tirmidhi this Hadis is Hasan,
> meaning it is a reliable Hadis.
>
> Umm Hani was the daughter of Abu Taleb, Muhammad's uncle. AbuTaleb
> brought up Muhammad in his home. Muhammad fell deeply in love with Umm
> Hani, but was greatly aggrieved when he asked to marry her but Abu
> Taleb refused. This meant Abu Taleb, a Meccan pagan, did not like
> first cousin marriage. But, as demonstrated in the above verse, Allah
> found a way to satisfy Muhammad's desire to have sex with his old
> flame.
>
> The truth was: although Allah said in the verse that those of
> Muhammad's first cousin sisters who had migrated with him to Medina
> were eligible to have sex with him, Muhammad never followed Allah's
> instruction. The great Islamic scholar Maulana Maududi writes:
>
> The ladies from among his first cousins, who emigrated along with him.
> The words "who emigrated with you" do not mean that they accompanied
> the Holy Prophet in his migration journey but this that they also had
> migrated in the way of Allah for the sake of Islam. The Holy Prophet
> was given the choice to marry any one of them he liked. Accordingly,
> in A.H. 7 he married Hadrat Umm Habibah. (Incidentally, in this verse
> it has been elucidated that the daughters of one's paternal and
> maternal uncles and aunts are lawful for a Muslim. In this regard the
> Islamic Law is different both from the Christian Law and from the
> Jewish Law. Among the Christians one cannot marry a woman whose line
> of descent joins one's own anywhere in the last seven generations, and
> among the Jews it is permissible even to marry one's real niece, i.e.
> daughter of one's brother or sister. (Maududi 33/87.)
>
> To justify the marriage between first cousins among Muslims, Maulana
> Maududi cites irrelevant matters of the Jews and the Christians. While
> currently, the first cousin marriage among the Jews and the Christians
> is indeed rare, the same may not be true for the Muslims as the
> statistics from the above article demonstrates.
>
> In fact, Dr. Mahathir the former Prime Minister of Malaysia was so
> concerned about the first cousin marriages among the Muslims in
> Malaysia that he wrote a book, The Malay Dilemma. In this book Dr
> Mahathir postulated that one of the main reasons for the absolute
> backwardness of Malays is due to their practice of in-breeding. He was
> a medical professional. He wrote that because of in-breeding the
> Malays have a very limited genetic pool.
>
> Here are a few excerpts from Dr Mahathir's book The Malay Dilemma.
>
> Generally speaking, modern ideas on the evolution of man are not
> acceptable to Muslims and therefore to Malays. But even Malays admit
> that certain characteristics are passed from parents to offspring.
> "Bapak borek, anak beritek" is a well-known Malay saying which means
> "A spotted father begets a speckled son." The meaning is obvious. If
> this is so for an individual then hereditary influence must play a
> role in the development of a collection of individuals which
> constitutes a race. What is not generally known by the Malays is the
> effect of in-breeding.
>
> In this book I have explained how the laws of genetics, which govern
> the transmission of hereditary characteristics, are affected adversely
> by in-breeding and other marriage practices.
>
> There has been a lot of scientific thinking on the subject of
> in-breeding and the effect on human society. Cyril Dean Darlington, a
> British geneticist, in his book, The Evolution of Man and Society,
> takes the extreme view that the evolution of human society is the
> product of genes. According to him, civilizations flourish and decay
> in obedience to genetic decrees. He pointed out that once a ruling
> class fixed itself in power, it sought to conserve that power by
> in-breeding, thus denying the infusion of fresh stock. It was this
> habit, according to Darligton, that expedited the decline of the
> Pharaohs, the Ptolemies and the Caesars.
>
> This interesting hypothesis is perhaps too extreme to be generally
> accepted even by non-Muslims. In any case, Darligton was referring
> mainly to incest, a practice which is unknown among the Malays.
> However, the modern definition of in-breeding includes marriages
> between first cousins and other close relatives, a practice fairly
> common among the Malays. Hereditary influence also produces an adverse
> effect in a society which, abhorring celibacy, insists that everyone,
> fit or unfit, should marry. Thus, the deformed in mind and body are
> somehow paired off and reproduce.
>
> While it must be admitted that inbreeding is not general among the
> Malays, what cannot be denied is that the instances of in-breeding are
> greater among them than among the other major races in Malaysia--the
> Chinese. In fact Chinese marriage customs specifically prevents
> in-breeding. And so it is correct to say that in-breeding together
> with forced marriages of the unfit produce a much greater percentage
> of human failures among Malays as compared with other races.
>
> This explanation is offered in mitigation and defence of my views.
> Nevertheless it is not expected that they will be easily accepted. The
> implications are too depressing and hold no promise of easy or rapid
> remedies. (Dr Mahathir Mohamad, The Malay Dilemma, p. 1, 2.)
>
> Mendel's law states that offspring are not intermediate in type
> between the two parents, but that the type of one or the other is
> predominant according to a fixed law. The importance of this law lies
> in its rejection of the popular concept that offspring must be a
> dilution of the opposing characters of the parents.
>
> Mendels's Law is best illustrated by experiments in breeding white and
> brown mice. Provided that a sufficiently large series of experiments
> is carried out, the mating of white and brown mice will produce not
> spotted or brownish white mice but white mice predominantly. But if
> this (sic) first generation of white mice are mated among themselves,
> the offspring are not all white but a mixture of pure white and pure
> brown in the proportion of three whites to one brown. The point this
> illustrates is that white is a dominant characteristic which shows up
> in the first generation. However, even though the first generation
> appears pure white, it has a hidden brown factor which is
> transmissible to the next generation. But this brown factor is weak as
> shown by the fact that only one in four of the second generation is
> brown in colour. (Dr Mahathir Mohamad, The Malay Dilemma, p. 17)
>
> A dominant characteristic tends to cancel a recessive characteristic,
> and it is clear that if the parents have different sets of dominant
> characteristics, then the offspring will have a combination of all the
> dominant characteristics of the parents. It follows therefore that the
> best offspring are those resulting from parents with different good
> dominant characteristics. Thus since close relatives tend to resemble
> each other and the chances of carrying similar recessive
> characteristics are greater, marriage between such relatives will not
> produce the best offspring. On the other hand, as unrelated people
> have more differences in characteristic, a marriage between such
> people would tend to produce ideal offspring with good dominant
> characteristics of both parents, while the recessive characteristics
> are cancelled. (Dr Mahathir Mohamad, The Malay Dilemma, p. 18-19)
>
> Predictably, after the first publication of The Malay Dilemma, the
> Malaysian Government banned it, and Dr Mahathir was expelled from the
> Malaysia's most dominant Muslim party UMNO (United Malays National
> Organisation). Malaysian Law stipulates that all Malays are, by
> definition, Muslims. A few years later, Dr Mahathir was again admitted
> into UMNO, and he finally became the UMNO president, but his book The
> Malay Dilemma remained proscribed. Only after Dr Mahathir became the
> Prime Minister of Malaysia, the ban on this controversial book was
> lifted, and republished in 1981.
>
> Admittedly, Dr Mahathir is very knowledgeable in genetics and his
> courage to tell the truth is admirable.
>
> But Dr Mahathir did not have the supreme intrepidity to blame the
> genetic root of Malay backwardness to Islam--more precisely that the
> Malays, being deeply Islamic religious, are simply following Islamic
> rules on first cousin marriage and emulating their prophet, Muhammad.
> Dr Mahathir was too fearful to be seen as anti-islam. He blamed the
> Malays for their proclivity towards in-breeding and not Islam. It was
> too dangerous for him to do so.
>
> Conclusion: Like it or not, Incest in Islam is alive and kicking well
> as can be illustrated from several verses of the Qur'an. The various
> interpretations, often contradictory, just prove that these words
> could not be from Allah. Allah cannot be so dim-witted not to know
> what is best for His Ummah. All-knowing, almighty Allah cannot be so
> careless that He would leave His words in such a manner that what one
> group of Muslims means to be halal may be death to another group of
> Muslims. The topic of incest in Islam is such a dangerous game. It
> also possible that the inherent backward of the Muslim in general
> might be rooted in their limited genetic pool because of incestuous
> marriage practiced in many Islamic nation.
>
> Bibliography:
>
> al-Tabari, Abu Ja'far Muhammad b. Jarir, The Victory of Islam,
> vol. viii. Translated by Michael Fishbein. State University of New
> York Press, Albany, 1997. ISBN 0-7914-3150-9
> al-Tabari, Abu Ja'far Muhammad b. Jarir. The Last Years of the
> Prophet, vol. ix. Translated by Ismail K. Poonwala. State University
> of New York Press, Albany, 1990. ISBN 0-88706-692-5.
> Encyclopaedia Britannica 2007 Ultimate Reference Suite CD ROM
> version.
> Imam Hafiz Abu 'Eisa Mohammad Ibn 'Eisa At-Tirmidhi, Jami'
> At-Tirmidhi (vol. 1-6), Tr. Abu Khaliyl, Final review by Islamic
> Research Section Darussalam, Darussalam, P.O. Box 22743, Riyadh 11416,
> Saudi Arabia, First Ed. November 2007.
> Jalalu'd-Din Al-Mahali and Jalal'ud-Din As-Suyuti. Tafsir
> Al-Jalalyn, translated in English by Aisha Bewley. Dar Al-Taqwa Ltd.
> 7A Melcombe Street, Baker Street, London NW1 6AE, 2007. ISBN:
> 1-870582-61-6
> Kamali, Mohammad Hashim. PRINCIPLES OF Islamic JURISPRUDENCE.First
> published by the Islamic Text Society of Cambridge, U. K.1991. Second
> Revised Edition, sixth printing, 2009. ILMIAH PUBLISHERS SDN. BHD.
> Regalia Business Centre, no. 33, Jalan USJ 1/1C, USJ 1, 47620 Subang
> Jaya, Selangor Darul Ehsan, Malaysia.
> Mohamad, Mahathir Dr. The Malay Dilemma. FEDERAL PUBLICATIONS SDN
> BHD. 8238 Jalan 222, Petaling Jaya, Selangor, Malaysia. 1981. First
> published 1970.
> Maududi: http://www.tafheem.net/main.html
> The three translations of the Qur'an:
>
> http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/reference.html

In article <18489c41-ab96-4517-a5f0-eba050709445@m11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
fanabba <fanabba@aol.com> posted:
>
> On Jan 18, 2:52=A0pm, arah <araharah2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > . . .
>
> Islam is not a religion.
>
> Islam cannot be reformed.
>
> Prophet of Doom
>
> http://www.prophetofdoom.net/
>
> Former Muslims Tell the Truth About Islam
>
> http://www.islam-watch.org/
> http://www.faithfreedom.org/

Dhanyavaad for your post,

Islam is a terrorist cult.

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

---
About the terrorist Goon Squad:

---------------------------------------------------------------------
As everyone knows, a goon is a bully or thug who terrorizes or tries
to do away with opposition.

"Myself, Mallu. Yourself?" (V. Bhattathiri) <KalluMallu123@gmail.com>
tries his best to be a bully -- telling others what and when to post,
where to post and where not to post, deliberately publishing lies
about others, stalking and abusing them with hate speech -- but fails
miserably. He is really stressed out, and like his lap dog Prem
Thomas (who currently posts as "P. Rajah" <user@this.com>, and issues
*death threats* to people), is priming himself for conditions such as
stroke and heart disease. Others in the Goon Squad include
Dayashankar M. Joshi "DMJoshi" <joshidm@gmail.com> who displays
unquestioning obedience to Goon Squad thugs, and the instigator who
posts as "Bholu" <bholu@hotmail.com>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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