Vegetarian Discussion: Lawsuit

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D*@nbc.nýt?
2011-10-06 13:33:57 EST
I've brought suit against a restaurant. I went there with some friends,
and when the waiter was running down the list of daily specials, he
mentioned a beef dish. I waited for a pause, then asked him, "Excuse
me, but does your beef come from exclusively grass-fed cattle who had
decent lives of positive value?" He glared at me for a moment, then
started yelling at me at the top of his lungs. Soon the maître d' came
over and joined in, taking the side of the waiter. I wasn't about to
back down, and a really ugly row was the result. Eventually someone
from the restaurant called the police, and can you imagine, I was
arrested for disorderly conduct, even though all I did was ask an
innocent question! I've never been so humiliated in my life. I'm
seeking a six figure damage award.

Dutch
2011-10-06 14:39:12 EST

"Delvin Benet" <DB@nbc.nýt> wrote
> I've brought suit against a restaurant. I went there with some friends,
> and when the waiter was running down the list of daily specials, he
> mentioned a beef dish. I waited for a pause, then asked him, "Excuse me,
> but does your beef come from exclusively grass-fed cattle who had decent
> lives of positive value?" He glared at me for a moment, then started
> yelling at me at the top of his lungs. Soon the maître d' came over and
> joined in, taking the side of the waiter. I wasn't about to back down,
> and a really ugly row was the result. Eventually someone from the
> restaurant called the police, and can you imagine, I was arrested for
> disorderly conduct, even though all I did was ask an innocent question!
> I've never been so humiliated in my life. I'm seeking a six figure damage
> award.

What do you expect in a French restaurant? I sent a plate of prawns back in
a French restaurant once because they were full of sand. The cook came out
and started berating me so I got up to leave. The maitre-de tried to stop me
and make me pay. I had to make a run for it before they called the gendarmes
and had me arrested. The French are drama queens.

To answer your question, unless the restaurant explicitly advertises grass
fed beef you should not expect it, because any restaurant that serves it
will surely let you know in advance, because it's more expensive, and a
different type of meat, less fatty than what most people are accustomed to.




Derek
2011-10-06 14:59:57 EST
On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 10:33:57 -0700, Delvin Benet <DB@nbc.nýt> wrote:

>I've brought suit against a restaurant. I went there with some friends,
>and when the waiter was running down the list of daily specials, he
>mentioned a beef dish. I waited for a pause, then asked him, "Excuse
>me, but does your beef come from exclusively grass-fed cattle who had
>decent lives of positive value?" He glared at me for a moment, then
>started yelling at me at the top of his lungs. Soon the maître d' came
>over and joined in, taking the side of the waiter. I wasn't about to
>back down, and a really ugly row was the result. Eventually someone
>from the restaurant called the police, and can you imagine, I was
>arrested for disorderly conduct, even though all I did was ask an
>innocent question! I've never been so humiliated in my life. I'm
>seeking a six figure damage award.

Delvin, I'm sorry your feelings were hurt and I agree that you ought
to seek damages. But I can't help wondering why you didn't try eating
at McCallums instead, if grass-fed "happy meat" is your choice.
They're becoming very popular and look likely to rival McDonalds one
day because they cater specifically to conscientious omnivores, just
like you, and hold the moral value, "We accept that some nonhuman
animals who are raised for food on farms have lives which are such
that it is better that they live that life than that they not live at
all." It's a new welfarism thing.

Derek
2011-10-06 15:22:58 EST
On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 11:39:12 -0700, "Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:

>
>"Delvin Benet" <DB@nbc.nýt> wrote
>> I've brought suit against a restaurant. I went there with some friends,
>> and when the waiter was running down the list of daily specials, he
>> mentioned a beef dish. I waited for a pause, then asked him, "Excuse me,
>> but does your beef come from exclusively grass-fed cattle who had decent
>> lives of positive value?" He glared at me for a moment, then started
>> yelling at me at the top of his lungs. Soon the maître d' came over and
>> joined in, taking the side of the waiter. I wasn't about to back down,
>> and a really ugly row was the result. Eventually someone from the
>> restaurant called the police, and can you imagine, I was arrested for
>> disorderly conduct, even though all I did was ask an innocent question!
>> I've never been so humiliated in my life. I'm seeking a six figure damage
>> award.
>
>What do you expect in a French restaurant?

Nazi sympathizers, berets and body odour.

>I sent a plate of prawns back in
>a French restaurant once because they were full of sand. The cook came out
>and started berating me so I got up to leave. The maitre-de tried to stop me
>and make me pay. I had to make a run for it before they called the gendarmes
>and had me arrested. The French are drama queens.
>
>To answer your question, unless the restaurant explicitly advertises grass
>fed beef you should not expect it, because any restaurant that serves it
>will surely let you know in advance, because it's more expensive, and a
>different type of meat, less fatty than what most people are accustomed to.

Served "very rare."

Dutch
2011-10-06 15:27:02 EST

"Derek" <usenet.email@gmail.com> wrote
> On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 10:33:57 -0700, Delvin Benet <DB@nbc.nýt> wrote:
>
>>I've brought suit against a restaurant. I went there with some friends,
>>and when the waiter was running down the list of daily specials, he
>>mentioned a beef dish. I waited for a pause, then asked him, "Excuse
>>me, but does your beef come from exclusively grass-fed cattle who had
>>decent lives of positive value?" He glared at me for a moment, then
>>started yelling at me at the top of his lungs. Soon the maître d' came
>>over and joined in, taking the side of the waiter. I wasn't about to
>>back down, and a really ugly row was the result. Eventually someone
>>from the restaurant called the police, and can you imagine, I was
>>arrested for disorderly conduct, even though all I did was ask an
>>innocent question! I've never been so humiliated in my life. I'm
>>seeking a six figure damage award.
>
> Delvin, I'm sorry your feelings were hurt and I agree that you ought
> to seek damages. But I can't help wondering why you didn't try eating
> at McCallums instead, if grass-fed "happy meat" is your choice.
> They're becoming very popular and look likely to rival McDonalds one
> day because they cater specifically to conscientious omnivores, just
> like you, and hold the moral value, "We accept that some nonhuman
> animals who are raised for food on farms have lives which are such
> that it is better that they live that life than that they not live at
> all." It's a new welfarism thing.

Are you taking the piss?

It sounds suspiciously like an old sophism called "The Logic of the Larder",
an expression I believe I learned from you.

Animal welfare properly expressed implies that animals raised with attention
given to fulfilling their needs are better off than if they were raised
without such attention. Saying that "it is better that they live that life
than that they not live at all" does not make sense. Not living at all is
not a relative state.



Mr.Smartypants
2011-10-06 15:42:01 EST
On Oct 6, 1:27 pm, "Dutch" <n...@email.com> wrote:
> "Derek" <usenet.em...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 10:33:57 -0700, Delvin Benet <D...@nbc.n t> wrote:
>
> >>I've brought suit against a restaurant.  I went there with some friends,
> >>and when the waiter was running down the list of daily specials, he
> >>mentioned a beef dish.  I waited for a pause, then asked him, "Excuse
> >>me, but does your beef come from exclusively grass-fed cattle who had
> >>decent lives of positive value?"  He glared at me for a moment, then
> >>started yelling at me at the top of his lungs.  Soon the ma tre d' came
> >>over and joined in, taking the side of the waiter.  I wasn't about to
> >>back down, and a really ugly row was the result.  Eventually someone
> >>from the restaurant called the police, and can you imagine, I was
> >>arrested for disorderly conduct, even though all I did was ask an
> >>innocent question!  I've never been so humiliated in my life.  I'm
> >>seeking a six figure damage award.
>
> > Delvin, I'm sorry your feelings were hurt and I agree that you ought
> > to seek damages. But I can't help wondering why you didn't try eating
> > at McCallums instead, if grass-fed "happy meat" is your choice.
> > They're becoming very popular and look likely to rival McDonalds one
> > day because they cater specifically to conscientious omnivores, just
> > like you, and hold the moral value, "We accept that some nonhuman
> > animals who are raised for food on farms have lives which are such
> > that it is better that they live that life than that they not live at
> > all." It's a new welfarism thing.
>
> Are you taking the piss?
>
> It sounds suspiciously like an old sophism called "The Logic of the Larder",
> an expression I believe I learned from you.
>
> Animal welfare properly expressed implies that animals raised with attention
> given to fulfilling their needs are better off than if they were raised
> without such attention. Saying that "it is better that they live that life
> than that they not live at all" does not make sense. Not living at all is
> not a relative state.-


It is if you factor in pre-existence. Just ask Goo.


Derek
2011-10-06 15:42:39 EST
On Thu, 6 Oct 2011 12:27:02 -0700, "Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote:

>
>"Derek" <usenet.email@gmail.com> wrote
>> On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 10:33:57 -0700, Delvin Benet <DB@nbc.nýt> wrote:
>>
>>>I've brought suit against a restaurant. I went there with some friends,
>>>and when the waiter was running down the list of daily specials, he
>>>mentioned a beef dish. I waited for a pause, then asked him, "Excuse
>>>me, but does your beef come from exclusively grass-fed cattle who had
>>>decent lives of positive value?" He glared at me for a moment, then
>>>started yelling at me at the top of his lungs. Soon the maître d' came
>>>over and joined in, taking the side of the waiter. I wasn't about to
>>>back down, and a really ugly row was the result. Eventually someone
>>>from the restaurant called the police, and can you imagine, I was
>>>arrested for disorderly conduct, even though all I did was ask an
>>>innocent question! I've never been so humiliated in my life. I'm
>>>seeking a six figure damage award.
>>
>> Delvin, I'm sorry your feelings were hurt and I agree that you ought
>> to seek damages. But I can't help wondering why you didn't try eating
>> at McCallums instead, if grass-fed "happy meat" is your choice.
>> They're becoming very popular and look likely to rival McDonalds one
>> day because they cater specifically to conscientious omnivores, just
>> like you, and hold the moral value, "We accept that some nonhuman
>> animals who are raised for food on farms have lives which are such
>> that it is better that they live that life than that they not live at
>> all." It's a new welfarism thing.
>
>Are you taking the piss?
>
>It sounds suspiciously like an old sophism called "The Logic of the Larder",
>an expression I believe I learned from you.
>
>Animal welfare properly expressed implies that animals raised with attention
>given to fulfilling their needs are better off than if they were raised
>without such attention. Saying that "it is better that they live that life
>than that they not live at all" does not make sense. Not living at all is
>not a relative state.

OK. Punked. Well done! I should've seen it coming.

Dutch
2011-10-06 15:43:16 EST


"Mr.Smartypants" <bunghole-jonnie@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:43693386-242f-495b-9d89-826cc5ab1cae@gd10g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 6, 1:27 pm, "Dutch" <n...@email.com> wrote:
>> "Derek" <usenet.em...@gmail.com> wrote
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 10:33:57 -0700, Delvin Benet <D...@nbc.n t> wrote:
>>
>> >>I've brought suit against a restaurant. I went there with some
>> >>friends,
>> >>and when the waiter was running down the list of daily specials, he
>> >>mentioned a beef dish. I waited for a pause, then asked him, "Excuse
>> >>me, but does your beef come from exclusively grass-fed cattle who had
>> >>decent lives of positive value?" He glared at me for a moment, then
>> >>started yelling at me at the top of his lungs. Soon the ma tre d' came
>> >>over and joined in, taking the side of the waiter. I wasn't about to
>> >>back down, and a really ugly row was the result. Eventually someone
>> >>from the restaurant called the police, and can you imagine, I was
>> >>arrested for disorderly conduct, even though all I did was ask an
>> >>innocent question! I've never been so humiliated in my life. I'm
>> >>seeking a six figure damage award.
>>
>> > Delvin, I'm sorry your feelings were hurt and I agree that you ought
>> > to seek damages. But I can't help wondering why you didn't try eating
>> > at McCallums instead, if grass-fed "happy meat" is your choice.
>> > They're becoming very popular and look likely to rival McDonalds one
>> > day because they cater specifically to conscientious omnivores, just
>> > like you, and hold the moral value, "We accept that some nonhuman
>> > animals who are raised for food on farms have lives which are such
>> > that it is better that they live that life than that they not live at
>> > all." It's a new welfarism thing.
>>
>> Are you taking the piss?
>>
>> It sounds suspiciously like an old sophism called "The Logic of the
>> Larder",
>> an expression I believe I learned from you.
>>
>> Animal welfare properly expressed implies that animals raised with
>> attention
>> given to fulfilling their needs are better off than if they were raised
>> without such attention. Saying that "it is better that they live that
>> life
>> than that they not live at all" does not make sense. Not living at all is
>> not a relative state.-
>
>
> It is if you factor in pre-existence. Just ask Goo.

Shut up goofball.

>
>

Rupert
2011-10-07 07:16:37 EST
On Oct 7, 6:27 am, "Dutch" <n...@email.com> wrote:
> "Derek" <usenet.em...@gmail.com> wrote
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 10:33:57 -0700, Delvin Benet <D...@nbc.nýt> wrote:
>
> >>I've brought suit against a restaurant.  I went there with some friends,
> >>and when the waiter was running down the list of daily specials, he
> >>mentioned a beef dish.  I waited for a pause, then asked him, "Excuse
> >>me, but does your beef come from exclusively grass-fed cattle who had
> >>decent lives of positive value?"  He glared at me for a moment, then
> >>started yelling at me at the top of his lungs.  Soon the maître d' came
> >>over and joined in, taking the side of the waiter.  I wasn't about to
> >>back down, and a really ugly row was the result.  Eventually someone
> >>from the restaurant called the police, and can you imagine, I was
> >>arrested for disorderly conduct, even though all I did was ask an
> >>innocent question!  I've never been so humiliated in my life.  I'm
> >>seeking a six figure damage award.
>
> > Delvin, I'm sorry your feelings were hurt and I agree that you ought
> > to seek damages. But I can't help wondering why you didn't try eating
> > at McCallums instead, if grass-fed "happy meat" is your choice.
> > They're becoming very popular and look likely to rival McDonalds one
> > day because they cater specifically to conscientious omnivores, just
> > like you, and hold the moral value, "We accept that some nonhuman
> > animals who are raised for food on farms have lives which are such
> > that it is better that they live that life than that they not live at
> > all." It's a new welfarism thing.
>
> Are you taking the piss?
>
> It sounds suspiciously like an old sophism called "The Logic of the Larder",
> an expression I believe I learned from you.
>
> Animal welfare properly expressed implies that animals raised with attention
> given to fulfilling their needs are better off than if they were raised
> without such attention. Saying that "it is better that they live that life
> than that they not live at all" does not make sense. Not living at all is
> not a relative state.

So, you don't believe it is possible to compare different world-
histories?

Dutch
2011-10-07 15:38:39 EST

"Rupert" <rupertmccallum@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e6944cbb-33f5-4579-aebc-b0c9e692298a@s9g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 7, 6:27 am, "Dutch" <n...@email.com> wrote:
>> "Derek" <usenet.em...@gmail.com> wrote
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 10:33:57 -0700, Delvin Benet <D...@nbc.nýt> wrote:
>>
>> >>I've brought suit against a restaurant. I went there with some
>> >>friends,
>> >>and when the waiter was running down the list of daily specials, he
>> >>mentioned a beef dish. I waited for a pause, then asked him, "Excuse
>> >>me, but does your beef come from exclusively grass-fed cattle who had
>> >>decent lives of positive value?" He glared at me for a moment, then
>> >>started yelling at me at the top of his lungs. Soon the maître d' came
>> >>over and joined in, taking the side of the waiter. I wasn't about to
>> >>back down, and a really ugly row was the result. Eventually someone
>> >>from the restaurant called the police, and can you imagine, I was
>> >>arrested for disorderly conduct, even though all I did was ask an
>> >>innocent question! I've never been so humiliated in my life. I'm
>> >>seeking a six figure damage award.
>>
>> > Delvin, I'm sorry your feelings were hurt and I agree that you ought
>> > to seek damages. But I can't help wondering why you didn't try eating
>> > at McCallums instead, if grass-fed "happy meat" is your choice.
>> > They're becoming very popular and look likely to rival McDonalds one
>> > day because they cater specifically to conscientious omnivores, just
>> > like you, and hold the moral value, "We accept that some nonhuman
>> > animals who are raised for food on farms have lives which are such
>> > that it is better that they live that life than that they not live at
>> > all." It's a new welfarism thing.
>>
>> Are you taking the piss?
>>
>> It sounds suspiciously like an old sophism called "The Logic of the
>> Larder",
>> an expression I believe I learned from you.
>>
>> Animal welfare properly expressed implies that animals raised with
>> attention
>> given to fulfilling their needs are better off than if they were raised
>> without such attention. Saying that "it is better that they live that
>> life
>> than that they not live at all" does not make sense. Not living at all is
>> not a relative state.
>
> So, you don't believe it is possible to compare different world-
> histories?

What I said was existence is not "better" than non-existence, for the entity
in question.


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