Vegetarian Discussion: WHO IS JESUS? ??????????

WHO IS JESUS? ??????????
Posts: 28

Report Abuse

Use this form to report abuse or request takedown.
The requests are usually processed within 48 hours.

Page: 1 2 3   Next  (First | Last)

Bv
2011-09-01 04:21:27 EST
WHO IS JESUS?


Without a doubt, you have often heard the claim that Jesus is God, the
second person in the "Holy trinity." However, the very Bible which is
used as a basis for knowledge about Jesus and as the basis for
doctrine within Christianity clearly belies this claim. We urge you to
consult your own Bible and verify that the following conclusions are
not drawn out of context:

1. God is All Knowing.....but Jesus was not
When speaking of the day of judgment, Jesus clearly gave evidence of a
limitation on his knowledge when he said, "but of that day and hour
knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, neither the
son, but the Father." Mark 13:32 , and Matt 24:36. But God knows all.
His knowledge is without any limitations. That Jesus, of his own
admission, did not know when the day of judgment would be, is clear
proof that Jesus is not all-knowing, and that Jesus is therefore not
God.

2. God is All Powerful.....but Jesus was not
While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the
power he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said,
"Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but
what he seeth the Father do..." St. John 5:19. Again he said, "I can
of mine own self do nothing: as I hear I judge: and my judgment is
just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father
which hath sent me." St. John 5:30. But God is not only all-powerful,
He is also the source of all power and authority. That Jesus, of his
own admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus
is not all-powerful, and that therefore Jesus is not God.

3. God does not have a God.....but Jesus did have a God.
God is the ultimate judge and refuge for all, and He does not call
upon nor pray to any others. But Jesus acknowledged that there was one
whom he worshipped and to whom he prayed when he said, "l ascend unto
my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God." St. John
20:17. He is also reported to have cried out while on the cross, "My
God, my God why hast thou forsaken me?" Matt 27:46. If Jesus were God,
then couldn't this be read, "Myself, myself why hast thou forsaken
me?" Would that not be pure nonsense? When Jesus prayed the Lord's
prayer (Luke 11:2-4), was he praying to ! himself? When in the garden
of Gethsemane he prayed, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup
pass from me: Nevertheless not as I will but as thou wilt." Matt
26:36-39. Was Jesus praying to himself? That Jesus, of his own
admission and by his own actions, acknowledged, worshipped, and prayed
to another being as God is clear proof that Jesus himself is not God.

4. God is an invisible spirit.....but Jesus was flesh and blood
While thousands saw Jesus and heard his voice, Jesus himself said that
this could not be done with God when he said. "No man hath seen God at
any time." St. John 1:18. '"Ye have neith! er heard His voice at any
time nor seen His shape." < st1:place>St. John 5:37. He also said in
St. John 4:24. "God is a spirit and they that worship him must worship
him in spirit and in truth." That Jesus would say that no one had seen
or heard God at any time, while his followers both saw and heard him,
is clear proof that Jesus was not God.

5. No one is greater than God and no one can direct Him but Jesus
acknowledged someone greater than himself whose will was distinct from
his own.
Perhaps the clearest indication we have that Jesus and God are not
equal, and therefore not one and the same, come again from the mouth
of Jesus himself who said in St. John 14:28, "My Father is greater
than I." When someone referred to him as good master in Matt 19:17 ,
Jesus responded, "Why callest thou me good? There is none good but
one, that is God..." Furthermore, Jesus drew clear distinctions
between himself and God when he said, "I proceeded forth and came from
God, neither came I of myself but He sent me." St. John 8:42. Jesus
gave clear evidence of his subordination to God, rather than his
equality with God, when he said in Luke 22:42 , "not my will but thine
be done" and in St. John 5:30 , ! "I seek not mine own will but the
will of the Father which hath sent m e." That Jesus would admit that
he did not come into the world on his own initiative but was directed
to do so, that he would acknowledge another being as greater than
himself, and that he would negate his own will in deference to
affirming the will of another, give clear proof that Jesus is not the
Supreme One and therefore Jesus is not God.

Conclusion
The Church recognizes the Bible as the primary source of knowledge
about God and Jesus. But since the Bible makes it clear that Jesus is
not the Supreme Being and the Supreme Being is not Jesus, upon what
basis have you come to believe otherwise?

My brother or sister, the belief that the Supreme Being is a Trinity
is false and completely inconsistent with the words of Jesus as
presented in the Bible. God is one, not three. He is a perfect unity.

If you are interested in the truth about God and your relationship to
Him, we invite you to investigate the religion of Islam.


What is the word of God about Jesus:

A. Regarding Sonship of Jesus:
That is Jesus, son of Mary, in word of truth, concerning which they
are doubting. It is not for God to take a son unto Him. Glory be to
Him! When He decrees a thing he but says to it "Be", and it is.
(Qur'an 19:34,35).

And they say, 'The All-merciful has taken unto Himself a son.' You
have indeed advanced something hideous. The heavens are well nigh rent
of it and the earth split asunder, and the mountains well nigh fall
down crashing for that they have attributed to the All-Merciful a son;
and it behoves not the All-Merciful to take a son. None is there in
the heavens and earth but comes to the All-Merciful as a servant
(Qur'an 19:88-93).

Truly the likeness of Jesus, in God's sight, is as Adam's likeness; He
created him of dust, then said He unto him, "Be", and he was. (Qur'an
3:59).

People ! of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and
say not as to God but the Truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was
only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and
a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers. and say not,
'Three', Refrain, better is it for you. God is only One God. Glory be
on Him - that He should have a son! To Him belongs that which is in
the heavens and on the earth, God suffices for a guardian. (Qur'an
4:171)

B. Regarding Jesus being God:
And when God said. 'O Jesus son of Mary,did you say unto men, "Take me
and my mother as gods, apart from God?" He Said, 'To You be Glory! It
is not mine to say what I have no right to. If I indeed said it, You
knew it, knowing what is within my soul, and I do not know what is
within Your soul; You know the things unseen. I only said to them what
You did command me: "Serve God, my Lord and your Lord." And I was a
witness over them, while I remained among them; but when You did take
me to Yourself the Watcher over them; You ar! e the witness of
everything. (Quran 5:116,117)

C. Regarding Crucifiction of Jesus:
And for their unbelief, and their uttering against Mary a mighty
calumny, and for their saying, 'We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of
Mary, the Messenger of God'...yet they did not slay him, neither
crucified him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who
are at variance concerning him surely are in doubt regarding him, they
have no knowledge of him, except the following of surmise; and they
did not slay him of certainty... no indeed, God raised him up to Him;
God is Almighty, All-Wise. There is not one of the people of the Book
but will assuredly believe in him before his death, and on the
Resurrection Day he will be a witness against them. (Qur'an 4:156-159)

IF YOU WISH TO KNOW MORE ABOUT ISLAM, WE PREFER TO VISIT THE FOLLOWING
WEBSITES:

http://www.islam-guide.com

http://www.quranexplorer.com/quran

http://www.islamhouse.com/s/9661

http://www.thisistruth.org

http://www.quran-m.com/firas/en1

http://kaheel7.com/eng

http://www.knowmuhammad.com

http://www.rasoulallah.net/v2/index.aspx?lang=e


http://imanway1.com/eng


http://www.todayislam.com

http://www.thekeytoislam.com

http://www.islamland.com

http://www.discoverislam.com

http://www.thetruereligion.org

http://www.beconvinced.com

http://islamtomorrow.com

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran

http://www.quranforall.org

http://www.prophetmuhammed.org

http://www.chatislamonline.org/ar

http://www.dar-us-salam.com

http://youtubeislam.com

George Plimpton
2011-09-01 16:05:33 EST
On 9/1/2011 1:32 PM, dh@. wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 01:21:27 -0700 (PDT), bv<bv6bv6bv6@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> WHO IS JESUS?

A fiction in which Fuckwit David Harrison, stupid Southern Baptist
cracKKKer, believes deeply.

D*@.
2011-09-01 16:32:12 EST
On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 01:21:27 -0700 (PDT), bv <bv6bv6bv6@gmail.com> wrote:

>WHO IS JESUS?
. . .
>My brother or sister, the belief that the Supreme Being is a Trinity
>is false and completely inconsistent with the words of Jesus as
>presented in the Bible. God is one, not three. He is a perfect unity.
>
>If you are interested in the truth about God and your relationship to
>Him, we invite you to investigate the religion of Islam.

You leave us with 2 possibilities to consider:

1. God is inept and unable to handle his own affairs in a respectable way so as
a result billions of people believe lies about him.

2. God can handle his affairs in a respectable way, though even after years of
thought and possibly some prayer you still remain clueless.

Seum
2011-09-02 04:22:34 EST
dh@. wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 01:21:27 -0700 (PDT), bv <bv6bv6bv6@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> WHO IS JESUS?
> . . .
>> My brother or sister, the belief that the Supreme Being is a Trinity
>> is false and completely inconsistent with the words of Jesus as
>> presented in the Bible. God is one, not three. He is a perfect unity.
>>
>> If you are interested in the truth about God and your relationship to
>> Him, we invite you to investigate the religion of Islam.
>
> You leave us with 2 possibilities to consider:
>
> 1. God is inept and unable to handle his own affairs in a respectable way so as
> a result billions of people believe lies about him.
>
> 2. God can handle his affairs in a respectable way, though even after years of
> thought and possibly some prayer you still remain clueless.

There is no such entity as a god - not the very slightest evidence.
Heaven, hell, etc were invented with the intention of controlling
populations. People who believe in religions are nothing but collections
of ignoramuses that allow themselves to be controlled by the smartest
ignoramuses that enjoy the power they get.


fall for the fiction that were invented to control the population.

D*@.
2011-09-03 18:32:11 EST
On Fri, 02 Sep 2011 09:22:34 +0100, Seum <Seum@nowhere.con> wrote:

>*h@. wrote:
>> On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 01:21:27 -0700 (PDT), bv <bv6bv6bv6@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> WHO IS JESUS?
>> . . .
>>> My brother or sister, the belief that the Supreme Being is a Trinity
>>> is false and completely inconsistent with the words of Jesus as
>>> presented in the Bible. God is one, not three. He is a perfect unity.
>>>
>>> If you are interested in the truth about God and your relationship to
>>> Him, we invite you to investigate the religion of Islam.
>>
>> You leave us with 2 possibilities to consider:
>>
>> 1. God is inept and unable to handle his own affairs in a respectable way so as
>> a result billions of people believe lies about him.
>>
>> 2. God can handle his affairs in a respectable way, though even after years of
>> thought and possibly some prayer you still remain clueless.
>
>There is no such entity as a god -

That's only one of countless possibilities. As yet I certainly have no
reason to put faith in it being correct, and never could have good reason to.

>not the very slightest evidence.

If God exists and has anything to do with this planet, he makes it clear
that he's not going to make proof of his existence available. If he wants things
to be as they are, that's how it has to be. That's one of the basics you would
have to learn to appreciate if you're ever going to consider the topic in a
realistic way. Another is that God would have to be an alien. I've learned that
a number of people have a problem with that fact, and amusingly people who
consider themselves to be strong atheists often have a lot of trouble just
getting that far.

>Heaven, hell, etc were invented with the intention of controlling
>populations. People who believe in religions are nothing but collections
>of ignoramuses that allow themselves to be controlled by the smartest
>ignoramuses that enjoy the power they get.

That's the case whether God exists or not, so you have no decent argument
with it. You also have no argument just because God doesn't make proof of his
existence available. You have presented no argument so far. Do you have one at
all?

>fall for the fiction that were invented to control the population.

Considering what humans have learned to accomplish over the past few
thousand years, and how many galaxies there are in the universe, it seems more
than likely that some beings could have advanced to what can be considered Gods.
Whether any of them have anything to do with this planet if they do exist is
more in question. For all you know there's a creator of the universe that isn't
even aware of Earth's existence. Or maybe there's a "governer" of this galaxy
who restricts space travel in our area because it's a wildlife refuge. You can't
imagine how many other possibilities there are than the one you want to put your
own faith in and cling to.

D*@.
2011-09-03 18:32:37 EST
On Thu, 01 Sep 2011 13:05:33 -0700, Goo wrote:

>On 9/1/2011 1:32 PM, dh@. wrote:
>> On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 01:21:27 -0700 (PDT), bv<bv6bv6bv6@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> WHO IS JESUS?
>
>A fiction

That's one of countless possibilities Goober, and I have no good reason to
put faith in it being the correct one. Neither do you btw, Goo. Your faith that
God does not exist is in no way superior to someone else's faith that he does
Goob. You are in no way superior to Southern Baptists Goo. You just put your
faith in a different possibity, and that's all. I'm not a Southern Baptist as
you so cluelessly believe Goober, but I do consider the possibility of God's
existence which makes me superior to you in that respect, and I'm thankful to
him and Jesus for what Jesus went did for mankind. And with the influence Jesus
had, you might not ever have been born if Jesus realy was just a fiction Goo.
LOL...you could have no idea whether that's the case or not, yet you act like
you know...LOL...

George Plimpton
2011-09-04 03:24:53 EST
On 9/3/2011 3:32 PM, dh@. wrote:
>

> Your faith that
> God does not exist

No.

George Plimpton
2011-09-05 13:58:40 EST
On 9/3/2011 3:32 PM, dh@. wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Sep 2011 13:05:33 -0700, Goo wrote:
>
>> On 9/1/2011 1:32 PM, dh@. wrote:
>>> On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 01:21:27 -0700 (PDT), bv<bv6bv6bv6@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> WHO IS JESUS?
>>
>> A fiction
>
> That's one of countless possibilities, and I have no good reason to
> put faith in it being the correct one.

You have ample reason to believe it, Fuckwit, but because you're a
stupid knuckle-dragging plodding Southern Baptist cracker, you reject
that reason - irrationally, to be sure.

George Plimpton
2011-09-05 15:17:16 EST
On 9/5/2011 1:56 PM, dh@. wrote:
> On Sun, 04 Sep 2011 00:24:53 -0700, Goo wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 03 Sep 2011 15:32:37 -0700, dh@. wrote:
>> Your faith that
>>> God does not exist
>>
>> No.
>
> You do act like you know

No.

D*@.
2011-09-05 16:56:50 EST
On Sun, 04 Sep 2011 00:24:53 -0700, Goo wrote:

>On Sat, 03 Sep 2011 15:32:37 -0700, dh@. wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 01 Sep 2011 13:05:33 -0700, Goo wrote:
>>
>>>On 9/1/2011 1:32 PM, dh@. wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 1 Sep 2011 01:21:27 -0700 (PDT), bv<bv6bv6bv6@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> WHO IS JESUS?
>>>
>>>A fiction
>>
>> That's one of countless possibilities Goober, and I have no good reason to
>>put faith in it being the correct one. Neither do you btw, Goo. Your faith that
>>God does not exist is in no way superior to someone else's faith that he does
>>Goob. You are in no way superior to Southern Baptists Goo. You just put your
>>faith in a different possibity, and that's all. I'm not a Southern Baptist as
>>you so cluelessly believe Goober, but I do consider the possibility of God's
>>existence which makes me superior to you in that respect, and I'm thankful to
>>him and Jesus for what Jesus went did for mankind. And with the influence Jesus
>>had, you might not ever have been born if Jesus realy was just a fiction Goo.
>>LOL...you could have no idea whether that's the case or not, yet you act like
>>you know...LOL...
>
>No.

You do act like you know Goober, but I know you don't. There's no way you
could know. Your faith is in no way superior to anyone else's, and it's inferior
to many people's. You have no good reason to have faith God does not exist, but
many people have good reason to believe he does whether he does or not.

Clearly what humans have accomplished in a few thousand years (not counting
the previous 90K+ years of not doing much of shit) and the number of galaxies in
the universe, suggests there are superior beings out there and some of them
could be considered gods. Just from those two considerations it seems more
likely than not that there are gods in the universe Goob. The bigger question
would be whether or not any of them have influence on Earth. Again you don't
know, and almost certainly you could not think realistically about the
possibility of God's existence. You can't even do it for livestock who we know
exist Goo, so considering the possibility of God's existence is way beyond your
mental limitations. You've already made it clear that's the case Goo...LOL...but
if you don't mind making it even clearer I feel sure it would be amusing to see,
so please do.
Page: 1 2 3   Next  (First | Last)


2020 - UsenetArchives.com | Contact Us | Privacy | Stats | Site Search
Become our Patron