Vegetarian Discussion: For Many Species There Is No Escape As Temperature Rises

For Many Species There Is No Escape As Temperature Rises
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Immortalist
2011-01-22 19:11:22 EST
...the early effects of global warming and other climate changes have
helped send the populations of many local mountain species into a
steep downward spiral, from which many experts say they will never
recover.

Over the next 100 years, many scientists predict, 20 percent to 30
percent of species could be lost if the temperature rises 3.6 degrees
to 5.4 degrees Fahrenheit. If the most extreme warming predictions are
realized, the loss could be over 50 percent, according to the United
Nations climate change panel.

In response to warming, animals classically move to cooler ground,
relocating either higher up in altitude or farther toward the poles.
But in the tropics, animals have to move hundreds of miles north or
south to find a different niche. Mountain species face even starker
limitations: As they climb upward they find themselves competing for
less and less space on the conical peaks, where they run into
uninhabitable rocks or a lack of their usual foods — or have nowhere
farther to go.

"It’s a really simple story that at some point you can’t go further
north or higher up, so there’s no doubt that species will go extinct,”
said Walter Jetz, professor of ecology and evolutionary biology at
Yale, whose research last year predicted that a third of the 1,000
mountain birds he studied, or 300 species, would be threatened because
warming temperatures would decimate their habitats.

William F. Laurance, ...said... in the future heat waves would
probably be the “death knell” for a number of cold-adapted species.

Current methods for identifying and protecting threatened species —
like the so-called red list criteria of the International Union for
Conservation of Nature, a conservation gold standard — do not yet
adequately factor in the impact of probable climate shifts, and the
science is still evolving, many scientists say.

A rapid change of climate can quickly eliminate species that inhabit a
narrow niche.

University of California at Berkeley recently documented that in
Yosemite National Park, where there is a century-old animal survey for
comparison, half the mountain species had moved their habitats up by
an average of 550 yards to find cooler ground.

Some main points from this Times article;
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/22/science/earth/22kenya.html?_r=1&hpw

Rod Speed
2011-01-22 20:38:26 EST
Immortalist wrote:

> ...the early effects of global warming and other climate
> changes have helped send the populations of many local
> mountain species into a steep downward spiral,

Thats a lie. Have fun listing even a single example of that.

> from which many experts say they will never recover.

Another lie. Fuck all claim that, and those that do are nothing
even remotely resembling anything like 'experts' about anything.

> Over the next 100 years, many scientists predict, 20 percent
> to 30 percent of species could be lost if the temperature rises
> 3.6 degrees to 5.4 degrees Fahrenheit.

Another lie. Nothing even remotely resembling anything
like 'many scientists' have predicted anything of the sort.

Have fun listing even a handful that have done anything of the sort.

> If the most extreme warming predictions are realized,

They never are, stupid.

> the loss could be over 50 percent, according
> to the United Nations climate change panel.

Another lie, they did claim that either.

> In response to warming, animals classically move to cooler ground,
> relocating either higher up in altitude or farther toward the poles.

Another pig ignorant lie. That isnt what happened in the move from the ice ages.

> But in the tropics, animals have to move hundreds
> of miles north or south to find a different niche.

Have fun listing even a single example of that happening with the move from the ice ages.

> Mountain species face even starker limitations: As they climb upward they
> find themselves competing for less and less space on the conical peaks,

Most peaks arent even conical, fool.

> where they run into uninhabitable rocks or a lack of
> their usual foods \ufffd or have nowhere farther to go.

Have fun listing even a single example of a species thats seen that happen to it.

> "It\ufffds a really simple story

Its actually a mindless lie.

> that at some point you can\ufffdt go further north or higher up,

Have fun listing even a single species that that happened to in the move from the ice ages.

> so there\ufffds no doubt that species will go extinct,\ufffd

Have fun listing even a single species that that
happened to that way in the move from the ice ages.

> said Walter Jetz, professor of ecology and evolutionary biology at Yale,

Just another fool that cant actually provide any examples
of what he claims with the move from the ice ages.

> whose research last year predicted that a third of the 1,000
> mountain birds he studied, or 300 species, would be threatened
> because warming temperatures would decimate their habitats.

Who cant actually provide any examples of what
he claims with the move from the ice ages.

> William F. Laurance, ...said... in the future heat waves would
> probably be the \ufffddeath knell\ufffd for a number of cold-adapted species.

Who cant actually provide any examples of what
he claims with the move from the ice ages.

> Current methods for identifying and protecting threatened species \ufffd
> like the so-called red list criteria of the International Union for
> Conservation of Nature, a conservation gold standard \ufffd do
> not yet adequately factor in the impact of probable climate
> shifts, and the science is still evolving, many scientists say.

Another lie. Fuck all scientist say anything like that.

> A rapid change of climate can quickly
> eliminate species that inhabit a narrow niche.

Easy to claim. Pity you cant list even a single
example of that in the move from the ice ages.

> University of California at Berkeley recently documented that
> in Yosemite National Park, where there is a century-old animal
> survey for comparison, half the mountain species had moved
> their habitats up by an average of 550 yards to find cooler ground.

Hardly the end of civilisation as we know it, fool.

> Some main points from this Times article;
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/22/science/earth/22kenya.html?_r=1&hpw

An even bigger steaming turd than you usually sniff out, Babe.



James
2011-01-22 22:18:23 EST
"Immortalist" <reanimater_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b55858b9-40b9-4d9b-8259-d079761b0cdb@o14g2000prn.googlegroups.com
> ...the early effects of global warming and other climate changes have
> helped send the populations of many local mountain species into a
> steep downward spiral, from which many experts say they will never
> recover.
>
> Over the next 100 years, many scientists predict, 20 percent to 30
> percent of species could be lost if the temperature rises 3.6 degrees
> to 5.4 degrees Fahrenheit. If the most extreme warming predictions are
> realized, the loss could be over 50 percent, according to the United
> Nations climate change panel.
>
> In response to warming, animals classically move to cooler ground,
> relocating either higher up in altitude or farther toward the poles.
> But in the tropics, animals have to move hundreds of miles north or
> south to find a different niche. Mountain species face even starker
> limitations: As they climb upward they find themselves competing for
> less and less space on the conical peaks, where they run into
> uninhabitable rocks or a lack of their usual foods — or have nowhere
> farther to go.
>
> "It’s a really simple story that at some point you can’t go further
> north or higher up, so there’s no doubt that species will go extinct,”
> said Walter Jetz, professor of ecology and evolutionary biology at
> Yale, whose research last year predicted that a third of the 1,000
> mountain birds he studied, or 300 species, would be threatened because
> warming temperatures would decimate their habitats.
>
> William F. Laurance, ...said... in the future heat waves would
> probably be the “death knell” for a number of cold-adapted species.
>
> Current methods for identifying and protecting threatened species —
> like the so-called red list criteria of the International Union for
> Conservation of Nature, a conservation gold standard — do not yet
> adequately factor in the impact of probable climate shifts, and the
> science is still evolving, many scientists say.
>
> A rapid change of climate can quickly eliminate species that inhabit a
> narrow niche.
>
> University of California at Berkeley recently documented that in
> Yosemite National Park, where there is a century-old animal survey for
> comparison, half the mountain species had moved their habitats up by
> an average of 550 yards to find cooler ground.
>
> Some main points from this Times article;
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/22/science/earth/22kenya.html?_r=1&hpw

Here. Knock yourself out.
--
http://tinyurl.com/f4xnr


DonH
2011-01-23 06:40:01 EST
"Immortalist" <reanimater_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b55858b9-40b9-4d9b-8259-d079761b0cdb@o14g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
...the early effects of global warming and other climate changes have
helped send the populations of many local mountain species into a
steep downward spiral, from which many experts say they will never
recover.

Over the next 100 years, many scientists predict, 20 percent to 30
percent of species could be lost if the temperature rises 3.6 degrees
to 5.4 degrees Fahrenheit. If the most extreme warming predictions are
realized, the loss could be over 50 percent, according to the United
Nations climate change panel.

In response to warming, animals classically move to cooler ground,
relocating either higher up in altitude or farther toward the poles.
But in the tropics, animals have to move hundreds of miles north or
south to find a different niche. Mountain species face even starker
limitations: As they climb upward they find themselves competing for
less and less space on the conical peaks, where they run into
uninhabitable rocks or a lack of their usual foods \ufffd or have nowhere
farther to go.

"It\ufffds a really simple story that at some point you can\ufffdt go further
north or higher up, so there\ufffds no doubt that species will go extinct,\ufffd
said Walter Jetz, professor of ecology and evolutionary biology at
Yale, whose research last year predicted that a third of the 1,000
mountain birds he studied, or 300 species, would be threatened because
warming temperatures would decimate their habitats.

William F. Laurance, ...said... in the future heat waves would
probably be the \ufffddeath knell\ufffd for a number of cold-adapted species.

Current methods for identifying and protecting threatened species \ufffd
like the so-called red list criteria of the International Union for
Conservation of Nature, a conservation gold standard \ufffd do not yet
adequately factor in the impact of probable climate shifts, and the
science is still evolving, many scientists say.

A rapid change of climate can quickly eliminate species that inhabit a
narrow niche.

University of California at Berkeley recently documented that in
Yosemite National Park, where there is a century-old animal survey for
comparison, half the mountain species had moved their habitats up by
an average of 550 yards to find cooler ground.

Some main points from this Times article;
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/22/science/earth/22kenya.html?_r=1&hpw

# Al Gore says non-human species are being wiped out at 1,000 times the
'normal' rate, and certainly the felling of whole forests or jungles is a
case of mass murder. Not to mention over-fishing the oceans.
At 6.5 billion humans, all chomping away at their own ecology, there
will come a critical point at which the Balance of Nature will be so upset
that our own survival is imperiled.
My prediction is: the decimation of Homo Sap by 2050 AD, and extinction
by 2099.
The Skeptics and Deniers will scoff at this, but then, as they assure
us - global warming is merely self-interested climatologists wanting more
funding from public coffers.
But we'll all go together when we go.
The dead will be the lucky ones.
The Mad Ape has an over-large brain, coupled with primitive instincts:
a recipe for disaster. Our rise, and fall, will be brief, but spectacular.



Rod Speed
2011-01-23 13:55:21 EST
DonH wrote:
> "Immortalist" <reanimater_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:b55858b9-40b9-4d9b-8259-d079761b0cdb@o14g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> ...the early effects of global warming and other climate changes have
> helped send the populations of many local mountain species into a
> steep downward spiral, from which many experts say they will never
> recover.
>
> Over the next 100 years, many scientists predict, 20 percent to 30
> percent of species could be lost if the temperature rises 3.6 degrees
> to 5.4 degrees Fahrenheit. If the most extreme warming predictions are
> realized, the loss could be over 50 percent, according to the United
> Nations climate change panel.
>
> In response to warming, animals classically move to cooler ground,
> relocating either higher up in altitude or farther toward the poles.
> But in the tropics, animals have to move hundreds of miles north or
> south to find a different niche. Mountain species face even starker
> limitations: As they climb upward they find themselves competing for
> less and less space on the conical peaks, where they run into
> uninhabitable rocks or a lack of their usual foods \ufffd or have nowhere
> farther to go.
>
> "It\ufffds a really simple story that at some point you can\ufffdt go further
> north or higher up, so there\ufffds no doubt that species will go extinct,\ufffd
> said Walter Jetz, professor of ecology and evolutionary biology at
> Yale, whose research last year predicted that a third of the 1,000
> mountain birds he studied, or 300 species, would be threatened because
> warming temperatures would decimate their habitats.
>
> William F. Laurance, ...said... in the future heat waves would
> probably be the \ufffddeath knell\ufffd for a number of cold-adapted species.
>
> Current methods for identifying and protecting threatened species \ufffd
> like the so-called red list criteria of the International Union for
> Conservation of Nature, a conservation gold standard \ufffd do not yet
> adequately factor in the impact of probable climate shifts, and the
> science is still evolving, many scientists say.
>
> A rapid change of climate can quickly eliminate species that inhabit a
> narrow niche.
>
> University of California at Berkeley recently documented that in
> Yosemite National Park, where there is a century-old animal survey for
> comparison, half the mountain species had moved their habitats up by
> an average of 550 yards to find cooler ground.
>
> Some main points from this Times article;
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/22/science/earth/22kenya.html?_r=1&hpw
>
> # Al Gore says non-human species are being wiped out at 1,000 times
> the 'normal' rate, and certainly the felling of whole forests or
> jungles is a case of mass murder. Not to mention over-fishing the
> oceans. At 6.5 billion humans, all chomping away at their own
> ecology, there will come a critical point at which the Balance of Nature will be so
> upset that our own survival is imperiled.

> My prediction is: the decimation of Homo Sap by 2050 AD, and extinction by 2099.

> The Skeptics and Deniers will scoff at this,

And so does everyone else too.

> but then, as they assure us - global warming is merely self-interested climatologists wanting more funding from public
> coffers.

Even those who dont say that scoff at your mindlessly silly prediction.

> But we'll all go together when we go.

Even sillier. The modern first world wont, even if the third world does.

> The dead will be the lucky ones.

Then do the decent thing and hang yourself today.

> The Mad Ape has an over-large brain, coupled with primitive instincts: a recipe for disaster.

How odd that its succeeded so well up till now, over millions of years in fact.

> Our rise, and fall, will be brief, but spectacular.

Just another of your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasys.

Have fun listing even a single civilisation that had anything like that.



DonH
2011-01-24 13:28:50 EST
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8q3bssFi60U1@mid.individual.net...
> DonH wrote:
>> "Immortalist" <reanimater_2000@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:b55858b9-40b9-4d9b-8259-d079761b0cdb@o14g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
>> ...the early effects of global warming and other climate changes have
>> helped send the populations of many local mountain species into a
>> steep downward spiral, from which many experts say they will never
>> recover.
>>
>> Over the next 100 years, many scientists predict, 20 percent to 30
>> percent of species could be lost if the temperature rises 3.6 degrees
>> to 5.4 degrees Fahrenheit. If the most extreme warming predictions are
>> realized, the loss could be over 50 percent, according to the United
>> Nations climate change panel.
>>
>> In response to warming, animals classically move to cooler ground,
>> relocating either higher up in altitude or farther toward the poles.
>> But in the tropics, animals have to move hundreds of miles north or
>> south to find a different niche. Mountain species face even starker
>> limitations: As they climb upward they find themselves competing for
>> less and less space on the conical peaks, where they run into
>> uninhabitable rocks or a lack of their usual foods - or have nowhere
>> farther to go.
>>
>> "It's a really simple story that at some point you can't go further
>> north or higher up, so there's no doubt that species will go extinct,"
>> said Walter Jetz, professor of ecology and evolutionary biology at
>> Yale, whose research last year predicted that a third of the 1,000
>> mountain birds he studied, or 300 species, would be threatened because
>> warming temperatures would decimate their habitats.
>>
>> William F. Laurance, ...said... in the future heat waves would
>> probably be the "death knell" for a number of cold-adapted species.
>>
>> Current methods for identifying and protecting threatened species -
>> like the so-called red list criteria of the International Union for
>> Conservation of Nature, a conservation gold standard - do not yet
>> adequately factor in the impact of probable climate shifts, and the
>> science is still evolving, many scientists say.
>>
>> A rapid change of climate can quickly eliminate species that inhabit a
>> narrow niche.
>>
>> University of California at Berkeley recently documented that in
>> Yosemite National Park, where there is a century-old animal survey for
>> comparison, half the mountain species had moved their habitats up by
>> an average of 550 yards to find cooler ground.
>>
>> Some main points from this Times article;
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/22/science/earth/22kenya.html?_r=1&hpw
>>
>> # Al Gore says non-human species are being wiped out at 1,000 times
>> the 'normal' rate, and certainly the felling of whole forests or
>> jungles is a case of mass murder. Not to mention over-fishing the
>> oceans. At 6.5 billion humans, all chomping away at their own
>> ecology, there will come a critical point at which the Balance of Nature
>> will be so
>> upset that our own survival is imperiled.
>
>> My prediction is: the decimation of Homo Sap by 2050 AD, and extinction
>> by 2099.
>
>> The Skeptics and Deniers will scoff at this,
>
> And so does everyone else too.
>
>> but then, as they assure us - global warming is merely self-interested
>> climatologists wanting more funding from public coffers.
>
> Even those who dont say that scoff at your mindlessly silly prediction.
>
>> But we'll all go together when we go.
>
> Even sillier. The modern first world wont, even if the third world does.
>
>> The dead will be the lucky ones.
>
> Then do the decent thing and hang yourself today.
>
>> The Mad Ape has an over-large brain, coupled with primitive instincts: a
>> recipe for disaster.
>
> How odd that its succeeded so well up till now, over millions of years in
> fact.
>
>> Our rise, and fall, will be brief, but spectacular.
>
> Just another of your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasys.
>
> Have fun listing even a single civilisation that had anything like that.
>

# Hell is already here, it seems.
The massive floods in Queensland and Victoria (also some in NSW and Tas),
Australia, are assumed by many to be unusually large ("once in 100 years"),
and there is a struggle to "get back to normal". Seems La Nina struck a bit
earlier than the predicted four-year cycle...
So, what weather can Australia expect this time next year?
If the Skeptics & Deniers are correct, then things will, indeed, get
back to "normal", and drought will resume, or just the old Wet Season (in
Qld).
If the Greenies, Al Gore, and Prophets of Doom, are right, then expect
more disastrous weather - whatever it may be.
Unless Humans world-wide start to "clean up their act" and recycle
chimney smoke, stop felling jungles, and restrain their predatory instincts
generally. (But this may take time to have effect.)
Yeah, looks like actual weather will soon prove either the Complacent,
or Prudent, to be correct.
How many one-off freak events does it take to form a trend?
One thing about the Human Factor, we can, theoretically, do something
about it. If freak weather is solely due to Mother Nature, then we can only
try and cope as best we can.
So, you think my prediction of human decimation and extinction is too
way-out? The Australian weather disaster shows how quickly such trend can
develop. Crops have been ruined, and there could be a fight for remnants in
the supermarket...



Rod Speed
2011-01-24 14:48:41 EST
DonH wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> DonH wrote
>>> Immortalist <reanimater_2000@yahoo.com> wrote

>>> ...the early effects of global warming and other climate changes have helped send the populations of many local
>>> mountain species into a steep downward spiral, from which many experts say they will never recover.

>>> Over the next 100 years, many scientists predict, 20 percent to 30
>>> percent of species could be lost if the temperature rises 3.6
>>> degrees to 5.4 degrees Fahrenheit. If the most extreme warming
>>> predictions are realized, the loss could be over 50 percent,
>>> according to the United Nations climate change panel.

>>> In response to warming, animals classically move to cooler ground,
>>> relocating either higher up in altitude or farther toward the poles.
>>> But in the tropics, animals have to move hundreds of miles north or
>>> south to find a different niche. Mountain species face even starker
>>> limitations: As they climb upward they find themselves competing for
>>> less and less space on the conical peaks, where they run into
>>> uninhabitable rocks or a lack of their usual foods - or have nowhere
>>> farther to go.

>>> "It's a really simple story that at some point you can't go further
>>> north or higher up, so there's no doubt that species will go
>>> extinct," said Walter Jetz, professor of ecology and evolutionary
>>> biology at Yale, whose research last year predicted that a third of
>>> the 1,000 mountain birds he studied, or 300 species, would be
>>> threatened because warming temperatures would decimate their
>>> habitats.

>>> William F. Laurance, ...said... in the future heat waves would
>>> probably be the "death knell" for a number of cold-adapted species.

>>> Current methods for identifying and protecting threatened species -
>>> like the so-called red list criteria of the International Union for
>>> Conservation of Nature, a conservation gold standard - do not yet
>>> adequately factor in the impact of probable climate shifts, and the
>>> science is still evolving, many scientists say.

>>> A rapid change of climate can quickly eliminate species that
>>> inhabit a narrow niche.

>>> University of California at Berkeley recently documented that in
>>> Yosemite National Park, where there is a century-old animal survey
>>> for comparison, half the mountain species had moved their habitats
>>> up by an average of 550 yards to find cooler ground.

>>> Some main points from this Times article;
>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/22/science/earth/22kenya.html?_r=1&hpw

>>> # Al Gore says non-human species are being wiped out at 1,000 times
>>> the 'normal' rate, and certainly the felling of whole forests or
>>> jungles is a case of mass murder. Not to mention over-fishing the
>>> oceans. At 6.5 billion humans, all chomping away at their own
>>> ecology, there will come a critical point at which the Balance of
>>> Nature will be so upset that our own survival is imperiled.

>>> My prediction is: the decimation of Homo Sap by 2050 AD, and extinction by 2099.

>>> The Skeptics and Deniers will scoff at this,

>> And so does everyone else too.

>>> but then, as they assure us - global warming is merely self-interested climatologists wanting more funding from
>>> public coffers.

>> Even those who dont say that scoff at your mindlessly silly prediction.

>>> But we'll all go together when we go.

>> Even sillier. The modern first world wont, even if the third world does.

>>> The dead will be the lucky ones.

>> Then do the decent thing and hang yourself today.

>>> The Mad Ape has an over-large brain, coupled with primitive instincts: a recipe for disaster.

>> How odd that its succeeded so well up till now, over millions of years in fact.

>>> Our rise, and fall, will be brief, but spectacular.

>> Just another of your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasys.

>> Have fun listing even a single civilisation that had anything like that.

> Hell is already here, it seems.

Then you need to get your seems machinery seen to. BAD.

> The massive floods in Queensland and Victoria (also some in NSW and Tas), Australia, are assumed by many to be
> unusually large

But the Brisbane flood didnt even reach the 1974
level and nothing like as many people died either.

Just one child died in Victoria and his parents were stupid enough to
let him go swimming in the flood waters when he could barely swim.

> ("once in 100 years"), and there is a struggle to "get back to normal".

There always is after any major flood, stupid.

> Seems La Nina struck a bit earlier than the predicted four-year cycle...

No one with a clue has ever said that its a fixed cycle of 4 years.

> So, what weather can Australia expect this time next year?

Nothing like what we got this time, you watch.

Just like we didnt see a repeat of 1974 in 1975 either.

> If the Skeptics & Deniers are correct, then things will, indeed, get back to "normal",

It will indeed.

> and drought will resume,

No it cant with that amount of water, stupid.

> or just the old Wet Season (in Qld).

> If the Greenies, Al Gore, and Prophets of Doom, are right,

They never are.

> then expect more disastrous weather - whatever it may be.

Its always been a country of droughts and flooding rains, stupid.

> Unless Humans world-wide start to "clean up their act" and recycle
> chimney smoke, stop felling jungles, and restrain their predatory
> instincts generally.

You dont know that that would have any effect on stuff like the current flood.

> (But this may take time to have effect.)

And may have no effect what so ever since its always
been a country of droughts and flooding rains.

> Yeah, looks like actual weather will soon prove either the Complacent, or Prudent, to be correct.

Nope, out climate has always been so variable that that wont happen.

> How many one-off freak events does it take to form a trend?

That aint what trends are about.

> One thing about the Human Factor, we can, theoretically, do something about it. If freak weather is solely due to
> Mother Nature, then we can only try and cope as best we can.

And we can decide not to build houses on flood plains too.

> So, you think my prediction of human decimation and extinction is too way-out?

So does everyone else too.

> The Australian weather disaster shows how quickly such trend can develop.

Like hell it does on your stupid human extinction claim.

> Crops have been ruined, and there could be a fight for remnants in the supermarket...

Nope, taint gunna happen, you watch.

The most we might see is more food with minor blemishes eaten etc.

And some have to without a lettuce for a while. Hardly the
end of civilisation as we know it, let alone human extinction.

The sky aint falling, Chicken Little.



DonH
2011-01-25 13:44:47 EST
"Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8q63csFgg3U1@mid.individual.net...
> DonH wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> DonH wrote
>>>> Immortalist <reanimater_2000@yahoo.com> wrote
>
>>>> ...the early effects of global warming and other climate changes have
>>>> helped send the populations of many local mountain species into a steep
>>>> downward spiral, from which many experts say they will never recover.
>
>>>> Over the next 100 years, many scientists predict, 20 percent to 30
>>>> percent of species could be lost if the temperature rises 3.6
>>>> degrees to 5.4 degrees Fahrenheit. If the most extreme warming
>>>> predictions are realized, the loss could be over 50 percent,
>>>> according to the United Nations climate change panel.
>
>>>> In response to warming, animals classically move to cooler ground,
>>>> relocating either higher up in altitude or farther toward the poles.
>>>> But in the tropics, animals have to move hundreds of miles north or
>>>> south to find a different niche. Mountain species face even starker
>>>> limitations: As they climb upward they find themselves competing for
>>>> less and less space on the conical peaks, where they run into
>>>> uninhabitable rocks or a lack of their usual foods - or have nowhere
>>>> farther to go.
>
>>>> "It's a really simple story that at some point you can't go further
>>>> north or higher up, so there's no doubt that species will go
>>>> extinct," said Walter Jetz, professor of ecology and evolutionary
>>>> biology at Yale, whose research last year predicted that a third of
>>>> the 1,000 mountain birds he studied, or 300 species, would be
>>>> threatened because warming temperatures would decimate their
>>>> habitats.
>
>>>> William F. Laurance, ...said... in the future heat waves would
>>>> probably be the "death knell" for a number of cold-adapted species.
>
>>>> Current methods for identifying and protecting threatened species -
>>>> like the so-called red list criteria of the International Union for
>>>> Conservation of Nature, a conservation gold standard - do not yet
>>>> adequately factor in the impact of probable climate shifts, and the
>>>> science is still evolving, many scientists say.
>
>>>> A rapid change of climate can quickly eliminate species that
>>>> inhabit a narrow niche.
>
>>>> University of California at Berkeley recently documented that in
>>>> Yosemite National Park, where there is a century-old animal survey
>>>> for comparison, half the mountain species had moved their habitats
>>>> up by an average of 550 yards to find cooler ground.
>
>>>> Some main points from this Times article;
>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/22/science/earth/22kenya.html?_r=1&hpw
>
>>>> # Al Gore says non-human species are being wiped out at 1,000 times
>>>> the 'normal' rate, and certainly the felling of whole forests or
>>>> jungles is a case of mass murder. Not to mention over-fishing the
>>>> oceans. At 6.5 billion humans, all chomping away at their own
>>>> ecology, there will come a critical point at which the Balance of
>>>> Nature will be so upset that our own survival is imperiled.
>
>>>> My prediction is: the decimation of Homo Sap by 2050 AD, and extinction
>>>> by 2099.
>
>>>> The Skeptics and Deniers will scoff at this,
>
>>> And so does everyone else too.
>
>>>> but then, as they assure us - global warming is merely self-interested
>>>> climatologists wanting more funding from public coffers.
>
>>> Even those who dont say that scoff at your mindlessly silly prediction.
>
>>>> But we'll all go together when we go.
>
>>> Even sillier. The modern first world wont, even if the third world does.
>
>>>> The dead will be the lucky ones.
>
>>> Then do the decent thing and hang yourself today.
>
>>>> The Mad Ape has an over-large brain, coupled with primitive instincts:
>>>> a recipe for disaster.
>
>>> How odd that its succeeded so well up till now, over millions of years
>>> in fact.
>
>>>> Our rise, and fall, will be brief, but spectacular.
>
>>> Just another of your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasys.
>
>>> Have fun listing even a single civilisation that had anything like that.
>
>> Hell is already here, it seems.
>
> Then you need to get your seems machinery seen to. BAD.
>
>> The massive floods in Queensland and Victoria (also some in NSW and Tas),
>> Australia, are assumed by many to be unusually large
>
> But the Brisbane flood didnt even reach the 1974
> level and nothing like as many people died either.
>
> Just one child died in Victoria and his parents were stupid enough to
> let him go swimming in the flood waters when he could barely swim.
>
>> ("once in 100 years"), and there is a struggle to "get back to normal".
>
> There always is after any major flood, stupid.
>
>> Seems La Nina struck a bit earlier than the predicted four-year cycle...
>
> No one with a clue has ever said that its a fixed cycle of 4 years.
>
>> So, what weather can Australia expect this time next year?
>
> Nothing like what we got this time, you watch.
>
> Just like we didnt see a repeat of 1974 in 1975 either.
>
>> If the Skeptics & Deniers are correct, then things will, indeed, get back
>> to "normal",
>
> It will indeed.
>
>> and drought will resume,
>
> No it cant with that amount of water, stupid.
>
>> or just the old Wet Season (in Qld).
>
>> If the Greenies, Al Gore, and Prophets of Doom, are right,
>
> They never are.
>
>> then expect more disastrous weather - whatever it may be.
>
> Its always been a country of droughts and flooding rains, stupid.
>
>> Unless Humans world-wide start to "clean up their act" and recycle
>> chimney smoke, stop felling jungles, and restrain their predatory
>> instincts generally.
>
> You dont know that that would have any effect on stuff like the current
> flood.
>
>> (But this may take time to have effect.)
>
> And may have no effect what so ever since its always
> been a country of droughts and flooding rains.
>
>> Yeah, looks like actual weather will soon prove either the Complacent, or
>> Prudent, to be correct.
>
> Nope, out climate has always been so variable that that wont happen.
>
>> How many one-off freak events does it take to form a trend?
>
> That aint what trends are about.
>
>> One thing about the Human Factor, we can, theoretically, do something
>> about it. If freak weather is solely due to Mother Nature, then we can
>> only try and cope as best we can.
>
> And we can decide not to build houses on flood plains too.
>
>> So, you think my prediction of human decimation and extinction is too
>> way-out?
>
> So does everyone else too.
>
>> The Australian weather disaster shows how quickly such trend can develop.
>
> Like hell it does on your stupid human extinction claim.
>
>> Crops have been ruined, and there could be a fight for remnants in the
>> supermarket...
>
> Nope, taint gunna happen, you watch.
>
> The most we might see is more food with minor blemishes eaten etc.
>
> And some have to without a lettuce for a while. Hardly the
> end of civilisation as we know it, let alone human extinction.
>
> The sky aint falling, Chicken Little.
>

# I'll await next year's weather for confirmation, as the sky did fall in
Qld and elsewhere this year, and is likely to fall again next.
Meanwhile, Oz may have to import fruit and veggies to supplement
supermarket stock.
If humans don't reduce chimney emissions, there's no reason to expect
global warming - and extreme weather - to cease.



Rod Speed
2011-01-25 14:00:49 EST
DonH wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> DonH wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> DonH wrote
>>>>> Immortalist <reanimater_2000@yahoo.com> wrote

>>>>> ...the early effects of global warming and other climate changes
>>>>> have helped send the populations of many local mountain species
>>>>> into a steep downward spiral, from which many experts say they
>>>>> will never recover.

>>>>> Over the next 100 years, many scientists predict, 20 percent to 30
>>>>> percent of species could be lost if the temperature rises 3.6
>>>>> degrees to 5.4 degrees Fahrenheit. If the most extreme warming
>>>>> predictions are realized, the loss could be over 50 percent,
>>>>> according to the United Nations climate change panel.

>>>>> In response to warming, animals classically move to cooler ground,
>>>>> relocating either higher up in altitude or farther toward the
>>>>> poles. But in the tropics, animals have to move hundreds of miles
>>>>> north or south to find a different niche. Mountain species face
>>>>> even starker limitations: As they climb upward they find
>>>>> themselves competing for less and less space on the conical
>>>>> peaks, where they run into uninhabitable rocks or a lack of their
>>>>> usual foods - or have nowhere farther to go.

>>>>> "It's a really simple story that at some point you can't go
>>>>> further north or higher up, so there's no doubt that species will go extinct," said Walter Jetz, professor of
>>>>> ecology and evolutionary
>>>>> biology at Yale, whose research last year predicted that a third
>>>>> of the 1,000 mountain birds he studied, or 300 species, would be
>>>>> threatened because warming temperatures would decimate their
>>>>> habitats.

>>>>> William F. Laurance, ...said... in the future heat waves would
>>>>> probably be the "death knell" for a number of cold-adapted species.

>>>>> Current methods for identifying and protecting threatened species
>>>>> - like the so-called red list criteria of the International Union
>>>>> for Conservation of Nature, a conservation gold standard - do not
>>>>> yet adequately factor in the impact of probable climate shifts,
>>>>> and the science is still evolving, many scientists say.

>>>>> A rapid change of climate can quickly eliminate species that inhabit a narrow niche.

>>>>> University of California at Berkeley recently documented that in
>>>>> Yosemite National Park, where there is a century-old animal survey
>>>>> for comparison, half the mountain species had moved their habitats
>>>>> up by an average of 550 yards to find cooler ground.

>>>>> Some main points from this Times article;
>>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/22/science/earth/22kenya.html?_r=1&hpw

>>>>> # Al Gore says non-human species are being wiped out at 1,000
>>>>> times the 'normal' rate, and certainly the felling of whole
>>>>> forests or jungles is a case of mass murder. Not to mention
>>>>> over-fishing the oceans. At 6.5 billion humans, all chomping
>>>>> away at their own ecology, there will come a critical point at which the Balance of
>>>>> Nature will be so upset that our own survival is imperiled.

>>>>> My prediction is: the decimation of Homo Sap by 2050 AD, and extinction by 2099.

>>>>> The Skeptics and Deniers will scoff at this,

>>>> And so does everyone else too.

>>>>> but then, as they assure us - global warming is merely self-interested climatologists wanting more funding from
>>>>> public coffers.

>>>> Even those who dont say that scoff at your mindlessly silly prediction.

>>>>> But we'll all go together when we go.

>>>> Even sillier. The modern first world wont, even if the third world does.

>>>>> The dead will be the lucky ones.

>>>> Then do the decent thing and hang yourself today.

>>>>> The Mad Ape has an over-large brain, coupled with primitive
>>>>> instincts: a recipe for disaster.

>>>> How odd that its succeeded so well up till now, over millions of years in fact.

>>>>> Our rise, and fall, will be brief, but spectacular.

>>>> Just another of your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasys.

>>>> Have fun listing even a single civilisation that had anything like that.

>>> Hell is already here, it seems.

>> Then you need to get your seems machinery seen to. BAD.

>>> The massive floods in Queensland and Victoria (also some in NSW and Tas), Australia, are assumed by many to be
>>> unusually large

>> But the Brisbane flood didnt even reach the 1974
>> level and nothing like as many people died either.

>> Just one child died in Victoria and his parents were stupid enough to
>> let him go swimming in the flood waters when he could barely swim.

>>> ("once in 100 years"), and there is a struggle to "get back to normal".

>> There always is after any major flood, stupid.

>>> Seems La Nina struck a bit earlier than the predicted four-year cycle...

>> No one with a clue has ever said that its a fixed cycle of 4 years.

>>> So, what weather can Australia expect this time next year?

>> Nothing like what we got this time, you watch.

>> Just like we didnt see a repeat of 1974 in 1975 either.

>>> If the Skeptics & Deniers are correct, then things will, indeed, get back to "normal",

>> It will indeed.

>>> and drought will resume,

>> No it cant with that amount of water, stupid.

>>> or just the old Wet Season (in Qld).

>>> If the Greenies, Al Gore, and Prophets of Doom, are right,

>> They never are.

>>> then expect more disastrous weather - whatever it may be.

>> Its always been a country of droughts and flooding rains, stupid.

>>> Unless Humans world-wide start to "clean up their act" and recycle chimney smoke, stop felling jungles, and restrain
>>> their predatory instincts generally.

>> You dont know that that would have any effect on stuff like the current flood.

>>> (But this may take time to have effect.)

>> And may have no effect what so ever since its always
>> been a country of droughts and flooding rains.

>>> Yeah, looks like actual weather will soon prove either the
>>> Complacent, or Prudent, to be correct.

>> Nope, out climate has always been so variable that that wont happen.

>>> How many one-off freak events does it take to form a trend?

>> That aint what trends are about.

>>> One thing about the Human Factor, we can, theoretically, do
>>> something about it. If freak weather is solely due to Mother
>>> Nature, then we can only try and cope as best we can.

>> And we can decide not to build houses on flood plains too.

>>> So, you think my prediction of human decimation and extinction is too way-out?

>> So does everyone else too.

>>> The Australian weather disaster shows how quickly such trend can develop.

>> Like hell it does on your stupid human extinction claim.

>>> Crops have been ruined, and there could be a fight for remnants in the supermarket...

>> Nope, taint gunna happen, you watch.

>> The most we might see is more food with minor blemishes eaten etc.

>> And some have to without a lettuce for a while. Hardly the
>> end of civilisation as we know it, let alone human extinction.

>> The sky aint falling, Chicken Little.

> I'll await next year's weather for confirmation,

You can wait till the cows come home if you like.

> as the sky did fall in Qld and elsewhere this year,

Nope, the BrizVegas floods didnt even get to 1974 levels this time.

> and is likely to fall again next.

Nope, we never get anything like that 2 years in a row.

> Meanwhile, Oz may have to import fruit and veggies to supplement supermarket stock.

Hardly the end of civilisation as we know it.

> If humans don't reduce chimney emissions, there's no reason to expect global warming - and extreme weather - to cease.

Its always been a country of droughts and flooding rains.

McKellar said that more than 100 years ago now.


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