Vegetarian Discussion: Are Farm Animals Fungible?

Are Farm Animals Fungible?
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Firehose
2010-07-16 13:19:05 EST

"The judge seems to be taking into account that the common law is changing,"
said Berlage, who chairs the Maryland State Bar Association's Animal Law Section.
"Pets have a different role in our lives than farm animals
that are fungible and can be replaced."
http://www.wtop.com/?nid=25&sid=1997681

Are farm animals fungible?

--
Firehose should be filtered out as well as those who talk to him regularly

Fred C. Dobbs
2010-07-16 13:21:41 EST
On 7/16/2010 10:19 AM, firehose wrote:
>
> "The judge seems to be taking into account that the common law is changing,"
> said Berlage, who chairs the Maryland State Bar Association's Animal Law Section.
> "Pets have a different role in our lives than farm animals
> that are fungible and can be replaced."
> http://www.wtop.com/?nid=25&sid=1997681
>
> Are farm animals fungible?

You don't even know what that means.

Are you a fungus?

--
Any more lip out of you and I'll haul off and let you have it...if you
know what's good for you, you won't monkey around with Fred C. Dobbs

Firehose
2010-07-16 13:32:21 EST


Distinguishing Animal Rights from Animal Welfare

The notion of "animal welfare" dates back far before "animal rights." In fact, "rights" in their modern sense did not enter common usage until the 1700s. It was most notably through the publication of Animal Liberation by Australian philosopher Peter Singer in 1975 that the animal liberation movement as we know it coalesced. There were several reasons for the new radical view, all of which directly influenced the content of Singer's important book: (1) using the liberation movements on behalf of blacks and women as models, the animal liberation movement rejected "speciesism"* (arbitrary discrimination on the basis of species membership) as well as racism, sexism, homophobia, and ableism; (2) advances in evolutionary biology blurred species boundaries between humans and other animals; (3) rebellions occurred within human organizations (e.g., the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals'* support of hunting*--many of its wealthy patrons were fox hunters--led to the formation of the Hunt Saboteurs Association in 1963); and (4) modern animal cruelties were documented in Ruth Harrison 1964 book Animal Machines, which exposed factory farming,* and in Richard Ryder's 1975 Victims of Science, which revealed horrors in the laboratory.

Technically, "animal rights" can refer to any list of rights for animals, although currently, the term is widely understood to refer to the idea of abolishing all use or exploitation of animals, a view reflected in Tom Regan The Case for Animal Rights. "Animal welfare" is generally understood as advocating "humane use" of animals, at minimum upholding animal well-being by prohibiting "unnecessary cruelty" (a common legal phrase). In spite of this general meaning, there remains a whole spectrum of alternative views as to what "animal welfare" is: (1) animal exploiters' "animal welfare," which amounts to the reassurance by those who use animals as commercial or recreational resources that they care for animals well; (2) commonsense animal welfare, which is the average person's vague concern to avoid cruelty and perhaps to be kind to animals; (3) humane animal welfare, which is more principled, deep, and disciplined than commonsense animal welfare in opposing cruelty to animals, but does not reject most animal-exploitive industries and practices (fur and hunting are occasional exceptions, along with the worst farming or laboratory abuses); (4) animal liberationist animal welfare, championed by Peter Singer, which would minimize suffering while accepting, for example, some types of vivisection; (5) new welfarism (see ANIMAL RIGHTS, Animal Rights and New Welfarism); and (6) animal welfare/animal rights views, which do not clearly distinguish the two. Richard Ryder subscribes to both ideas, although he is a complete abolitionist regarding animal use. Both animal welfare and animal rights, he says, "denote a concern for the suffering of others," and he evidently does not see the value of using the term to distinguish abolitionists from nonabolitionists who are still humanitarians.

Selected Bibliography. Carson Gerald, Men, Beasts, and Gods: A History of Cruelty and Kindness to Animals ( New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1972); Finsen Lawrence , and Susan Finsen, The Animal Rights Movement in America: From Compassion to Respect ( New York: Twayne, 1994); Jasper James M., and Dorothy Nelkin, The Animal Rights Crusade: The Growth of a Moral Protest ( New York: Free Press, 1992); Ryder Richard D., Animal Revolution: Changing Attitudes towards Speciesism ( Oxford: Basil Blackwell, 1989).

DAVID SZTYBEL

"Encyclopedia of Animal Rights and Animal Welfare" pp. 43-45


Any animal rights advocates here?

--
Firehose should be filtered out as well as those who talk to him regularly

Firehose
2010-07-16 13:52:53 EST
Fred C. Dobbs wrote:

> On 7/16/2010 10:32 AM, firehose wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Any animal rights advocates here?
>
> In alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian? You think there might be?


Are you one of them?

--
Firehose should be filtered out as well as those who talk to him regularly

Firehose
2010-07-16 14:11:40 EST
Fred C. Dobbs wrote:

> On 7/16/2010 10:52 AM, firehose wrote:
>> Fred C. Dobbs wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/16/2010 10:32 AM, firehose wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Any animal rights advocates here?
>>>
>>> In alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian? You think there might be?
>>
>>
>> Are you one of them?
>
> You already know the answer to that, so your dishonestly motivated
> question is just more "zen game" bullshit - entirely expected.


Too afraid to answer yes or no?

--
Firehose should be filtered out as well as those who talk to him regularly

Timothy Blacksmith
2010-07-16 14:22:38 EST
Awwww...

look everyone.

baby is feeding himself.


Fred C. Dobbs
2010-07-16 14:25:49 EST
On 7/16/2010 11:22 AM, Timothy Blacksmith wrote:
> Awwww...
>
> look everyone.
>
> baby is feeding himself.
>

How are things up in the Kootenays these days, timmie? I think I may be
up near Kaslo some time in the early autumn. Do you know of any good
zen dens around there?

--
Any more lip out of you and I'll haul off and let you have it...if you
know what's good for you, you won't monkey around with Fred C. Dobbs

Timothy Blacksmith
2010-07-16 14:33:02 EST
On Jul 16, 12:25 pm, "Fred C. Dobbs" <fred.c.do...@earthlink.not>
wrote:

> Do you know of any good
> zen dens around there?

I don't live there anymore but if you are looking for a place... if it
means you will leave us alone... I would recommend the Owl and the
Pussy Cat in Cranbrook.

My favorite drink? The Iron Maiden.

Hey Fred... did you get that membership form yet? Oh wait.

No.
You didn't.

Tim





Mr.Smartypants
2010-07-16 14:39:55 EST
On Jul 16, 12:11 pm, firehose <fireh...@everywhere.com> wrote:
> Fred C. Dobbs wrote:
> > On 7/16/2010 10:52 AM, firehose wrote:
> >> Fred C. Dobbs wrote:
>
> >>> On 7/16/2010 10:32 AM, firehose wrote:
>
> >>>> Any animal rights advocates here?
>
> >>> In alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian?  You think there might be?
>
> >> Are you one of them?
>
> > You already know the answer to that, so your dishonestly motivated
> > question is just more "zen game" bullshit - entirely expected.
>
> Too afraid to answer yes or no?
>
> --


The answer is "yes". Gooroo Goo is *always* afraid to answer
questions.


Timothy Blacksmith
2010-07-16 14:50:58 EST
On Jul 16, 12:39 pm, "Mr.Smartypants" <bunghole-jon...@lycos.com>
wrote:

> > Too afraid to answer yes or no?
>
> > --

Holding out on us eh? Bastard.

So... what do you think Smartypants? If it turns out, as a matter of
scale and center, that the earth is the center of the universe, what
massive global impacts will this suggest as we head ever forward?

Placing the Bible up against the Way it looks like this.

Jacob's Ladder (angels moving up and down... only the losers fall)
The Way (monks moving to and from... only fools leave the ruts)

Up/Down.
To. From.

Everyone is moving forward.

Isn't that weird?

Tim
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