Vegetarian Discussion: Healthcare: We Helped Germany Rebuilt, Now Let Them Help Us

Healthcare: We Helped Germany Rebuilt, Now Let Them Help Us
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TibetanMonkey, The-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit
2010-04-08 22:07:55 EST
Well, I don't mean appointing Germans to run the healthcare system,
but everything they do seems to please everything I hear from both the
Right and the Left in America!

"Germany has Europe's oldest universal health care system, with
origins dating back to Otto von Bismarck's Social legislation, which
included the Health Insurance Bill of 1883, Accident Insurance Bill of
1884, and Old Age and Disability Insurance Bill of 1889. As mandatory
health insurance, these bills originally applied only to low-income
workers and certain government employees; their coverage, and that of
subsequent legislation gradually expanded to cover virtually the
entire population.[2]

Currently 85% of the population is covered by a basic health insurance
plan provided by statute, which provides a standard level of coverage.
The remainder opt for private health insurance, which frequently
offers additional benefits. According to the World Health
Organization, Germany's health care system was 77% government-funded
and 23% privately funded as of 2004.[3]

The government partially reimburses the costs for low-wage workers,
whose premiums are capped at a predetermined value. Higher wage
workers pay a premium based on their salary. They may also opt for
private insurance, which is generally more expensive"...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_Germany

***

And while at it, they can help us with the present state of anarchy on
our roads. I hear it's quite fun to drive there! Actually they have
pretty good bike lanes too, so let the "Germanification" begin. (Is
that a word?)



------------------------------------------------------------

THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS

"Non illegitimus carborundum."

(Don't let the bastards grind you down.)

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote1

TibetanMonkey, Originator Of The Banana Kung-Fu
2010-04-09 12:10:57 EST
On Apr 9, 9:47 am, Brent <tetraethylleadREMOVET...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 2010-04-09, TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > And while at it, they can help us with the present state of anarchy on
> > our roads. I hear it's quite fun to drive there! Actually they have
> > pretty good bike lanes too, so let the "Germanification" begin. (Is
> > that a word?)
>
> 1) We could have proper driving without fascism and socialism in other
> aspects of life.
> 2) While I only saw a small part of extreme northern Germany, the bike
> 'lanes' I saw sucked. They were lanes marked out on the sidewalk! Too
> easy for people on foot to just wander into. However, they had the bike
> sidewalk integrated into the traffic signals. This meant that some of
> the intersection problem with sidewalk riding was removed. Not all
> intersections and driveways had traffic signals which meant the problem
> was still present.
>
> German driving is really a form of courtsey developed for motorized
> transport that scales. Heavy handed enforcement is not required. In
> fact, with little enforcement and little in the way of ticky-tacky laws
> there's a lot less MFFYism.
>
> American driving courtsey is a stupid assbackwards system that is
> loosely based on things people do while walking that demands things
> nobody would do face to face, like allowing someone to cut to the front
> of the line. It encourages MFFY and passive-aggressive behavior.
> When coupled with selective enforcement of all sorts of ticky-tacky
> laws it gets even worse.
>
> The key difference between German driving courtsey and American driving
> courtsey is that in the German version the people behind you are to be
> considered. In American driving there are no people behind you or 'f&@$
> them', they are behind. In German driving courtsey, people wanting to
> turn on to a road wait for a gap to enter the road without interfering
> with the flow of traffic. In american driving courtsey someone
> on the road stops traffic (the other drivers behind don't count) and
> lets a driver on to the road. In German driving courtsey drivers keep
> right except to pass. In American driving nobody should be passing so
> it's ok to block the left lane. In German driving everyone goes when the
> stop light turns green so the drivers at the back of the queue have a
> chance at making the light. In american driving, the people at the back
> can just wait another cycle and drivers are tought to wait 2-3 seconds
> after the driver in front of them has gone before slowly accelerating
> themselves and to let people in from driveways, let people who are in
> the wrong lane cut across, etc and so forth. Essentially acting as if
> the people at the back of queue don't exist or have no value worthy of
> consideration.
>
> Basically, american driving courtsey is socialist, where the those who
> are psychopathic (MFFY), don't plan, lazy, and/or don't pay attention
> catered to and rewarded while those who are responsible pay the price.
> German driving on the other hand is rather libertarian. Often no speed
> limits and other restrictions where the key is not to interfere with
> other people and other people won't interfere with you.

I think if we just remove the 'selfish' ingredient in United Selfish
of America, we could go a long way. Actually people don't realize that
being selfish slows down the whole system, but who cares if you drive
a little Toyota or an SUV. (A little Toyota is never in a hurry, and
the SUV braves his way around.)

There's also other aspects that are also problematic in the USA:

a) drivers merging onto the road often ignore the 'yield' sign, so YOU
must be second guessing and you must do the yielding yourself.

b) drivers park over the pedestrian x-ing and just stay there, forcing
the pedestrians to go around (that sucks!) or climb over the car to
the other side.

c) the cell phone... the fucking cell phone that seems to be an
accessory included with all SUVs and many cars.



TibetanMonkey, Originator Of The Banana Kung-Fu
2010-04-09 12:46:33 EST
On Apr 9, 11:26 am, Ron Peterson <r...@shell.core.com> wrote:
> On Apr 8, 9:05 pm, "TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit"
>
> <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > And while at it, they can help us with the present state of anarchy on
> > our roads. I hear it's quite fun to drive there! Actually they have
> > pretty good bike lanes too, so let the "Germanification" begin. (Is
> > that a word?)
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_traffic_safetygives a comparison of
> motor vehicle accident death rates per vehicle mile.
>
> Traffic accidents cause over 2 million injuries in the US each year
> creating a large expense to the health care system.

Where you see a large expense to the system, many see a business
opportunity: LAWYERS, POLICE, JUNKYARDS, TOW TRUCKS, CLINICS,
EMERGENCY ROOMS AND EVEN THE UNDERTAKER.


>
> Part of the solution is too have safer vehicles. Figuring out which
> ones are safer is difficult because there are so many different models
> available.
>

Actually it should be the reverse of what we've being doing to make
vehicles "safer" (ie. bigger). Notice this book is not written in
German, but in plain English...

(Yeah, that Liberal called Ralph Nader has been wrong. The
Conservatives are not free from blame. They just moved into SUVs to
play it safe)

'IT'S NO ACCIDENT'

For more than 30 years, the government has been ramming cars into
walls in an effort to make car crashes safe. The public has been
conditioned to believe that seatbelts, airbags and more "crashworthy"
vehicles are the best ways to protect us from harm on the roads.
Meanwhile, the most basic strategies to deter dangerous driving and
prevent crashes have been ignored. "It's No Accident" provides a rare
glimpse into how the government got seduced by the promise of "safe
crashing." It then examines the major factors involved in crashes
today, including speeding, aggressive driving, distractions (e.g. cell
phones) and drowsy driving. The author reveals that many dangerous
behaviors are now promoted by businesses, and that drivers who kill
often walk away with just a small fine.

http://www.crashprevention.org/index/itsnoaccident


TibetanMonkey, Originator Of The Banana Kung-Fu
2010-04-09 12:55:45 EST
On Apr 9, 12:38 pm, SMS <scharf.ste...@geemail.com> wrote:
> On 08/04/10 7:06 PM, TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > The government partially reimburses the costs for low-wage workers,
> > whose premiums are capped at a predetermined value. Higher wage
> > workers pay a premium based on their salary. They may also opt for
> > private insurance, which is generally more expensive"...
>
> It's not that the U.S. lacks the capability to do this, it's that it
> lacks the will to do it.
>
> What would make the most sense is to slowly expand Medicare to cover
> younger adults, especially those in the 50-65 age range that are often
> the most difficult to insure. The infrastructure is already set up, and
> it's very efficient, much more so than any private insurance company.
>
> Joe Lieberman actually suggested this approach, then when Democrats
> agreed that it was a good idea, Lieberman immediately back-pedaled.
> See: "http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-5979254-503544.html" where
> Lieberman makes a lot of sense.
>
> Eventually, when a public option becomes available, it will likely be
> based on an expansion of Medicare and Medicaid. It will require the
> elimination of more Republicans from congress. That's not going to
> happen in a mid-term election where the opposition party typically makes
> gains in congress, and this election you have a lot of first term
> Democrats from districts that almost never elect a Democrat, but where
> Democrats were swept in because of the anti-Bush, anti-McCain/Palin
> feelings of the electorate.
>
> It's really just a question of when, not if, we'll have a system like
> every other industrialized country in the world (all democracies BTW).
> The present insurance system is unsustainable both for employers and
> individuals. The private insurers are enjoying one last hurrah before
> the system implodes.

I think the Medical Industry is like a sacred cow because many people
are milking it.

Medicare around here is rife with corruption, so at some point the cow
must be sacrificed.


Dutch
2010-04-09 21:48:41 EST

"TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit" <nolionnoproblem@yahoo.com>
wrote in message
news:7221cfd0-ff79-493f-86c0-38aa13065610@c36g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> Well, I don't mean appointing Germans to run the healthcare system,
> but everything they do seems to please everything I hear from both the
> Right and the Left in America!
>
> "Germany has Europe's oldest universal health care system, with
> origins dating back to Otto von Bismarck's Social legislation, which
> included the Health Insurance Bill of 1883, Accident Insurance Bill of
> 1884, and Old Age and Disability Insurance Bill of 1889. As mandatory
> health insurance, these bills originally applied only to low-income
> workers and certain government employees; their coverage, and that of
> subsequent legislation gradually expanded to cover virtually the
> entire population.[2]
>
> Currently 85% of the population is covered by a basic health insurance
> plan provided by statute, which provides a standard level of coverage.
> The remainder opt for private health insurance, which frequently
> offers additional benefits. According to the World Health
> Organization, Germany's health care system was 77% government-funded
> and 23% privately funded as of 2004.[3]
>
> The government partially reimburses the costs for low-wage workers,
> whose premiums are capped at a predetermined value. Higher wage
> workers pay a premium based on their salary. They may also opt for
> private insurance, which is generally more expensive"...
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_Germany
>
> ***
>
> And while at it, they can help us with the present state of anarchy on
> our roads. I hear it's quite fun to drive there! Actually they have
> pretty good bike lanes too, so let the "Germanification" begin. (Is
> that a word?)

There are good examples of well run universal health care systems all over
the world, if you care to look


>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> THE WISE TIBETAN MONKEY SAYS
>
> "Non illegitimus carborundum."
>
> (Don't let the bastards grind you down.)
>
> http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote1

The Latin plural of "bastard" is "illegitimi".


TibetanMonkey, The-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit
2010-04-10 13:13:08 EST
On Apr 10, 11:51 am, Conscience <nobama@göv.com> wrote:
> On 2010-04-10 08:46:39 -0700, "TibetanMonkey,
> the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> said:
>
> > Popular rule as a facade
>
> > "The 20th Century Italian thinkers Pareto and Mosca (independently)
> > argued that democracy was illusory, and served only to mask the
> > reality of elite rule. Indeed, they argued that elite oligarchy is the
> > unbendable law of human nature, due largely to the apathy and division
> > of the masses (as opposed to the drive, initiative and unity of the
> > elites), and that democratic institutions would do no more than shift
> > the exercise of power from oppression to manipulation."
>
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#Popular_rule_as_a_facade
>
> Which is why the Founding Fathers didn't choose democracy for our country.
>
> Amusing when you hear the Talking Heads we call "congressmen" refer to
> the country they purport to represent as our "democracy".

Which, of course, must be exported to other tyrannical places such as
Iraq so they must part of the "game" too.

I was reading around about "elites," "democracy," etc, but basically
I'd round it up in these simple terms:

"The lions come in different colors and flavors, but they all rule the
jungle."

The sheep will always vote for the establishment (99% of them in the
former USSR), but liberal democracies allow for the monkeys (the Black
Sheep if you will) to MAKE NOISE, and they better make a lot of it so
the lions get the bad PR. Then the lions say, "Hey, we better listen
to these monkeys or else we risk our image." They do hate the image of
being a Hungry Lion, you know.

Any change needs BIG NOISE, COORDINATION AND SOLIDARITY, not unlike...

http://mybignoise.blogspot.com/2007/08/solidarity-law-of-jungle.htm


TibetanMonkey, The-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit
2010-04-10 13:27:48 EST


On Apr 10, 9:28 am, thea <thea.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 7:24 AM, Max <ass...@pcfin.net> wrote:
> > What is it with the seppos. They're so caught up in their intransigent
> > ideological hatred of 'woo woo', socialism. For shit's sake, get over
> > it. The state pays for your mail services, your defence, your customs,
> > your immigration authorities, education and a shite load of other
> > services.
>
> #1 -- the State has no money in its coffers except what it extracts from
> it's citizens in taxes. The State is broke without the will of it's
> citizens working to get something that they want. If you take all of the
> incentive away from the citizens to have a will to work - you will have
> nothing to give to the *dead beats* who want to take but not work.
> The Bible says that if you don't work, you don't eat. I think it's time to
> go back to the 1930's where we had work groups (EPA) - and you had to work
> to get your grub.

The Bible implies, "Hey, it's a jungle out there, so you are on your
own, baby!"

>
>
>
> > Why not health services for all.
>
> > We do have health services for all -- the problem is the hospitals are
>
> going out of business because there are *dead beats* who believe everything
> for them should be *free*. Someone has to pay!!
> Medicine isn't cheap -- it costs a lot of money.
> The government of the USofA supports the universities which develope the
> drugs. Then the drug companies put a patent on the drug and charge us back
> all kinds of money -- for what we paid for when we supported the government
> by paying our taxes - which gave some of our tax money to the universities
> to develope the drugs in the first place.
> Too many hands in the same pot is my way of thinking!

No, nothing is cheap except gasoline. Hey, perhaps we can tax the
stupid gasoline and pay for healthcare.

Tell me I'm not creative. ;)


TibetanMonkey, The-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit
2010-04-10 17:53:16 EST
(link of MAKING NOISE corrected)

On Apr 10, 2:14 pm, Conscience <nobama@göv.com> wrote:
> On 2010-04-10 10:58:13 -0700, "TibetanMonkey,
> the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> said:
>
>
>
> > Try it now...
>
> >http://mybignoise.blogspot.com/2007/08/solidarity-law-of-jungle.html
>
> An amusing read. Too bad the irony contained within escapes most readers.
>
> Today the antithetical statement would be "We can hire 30%
> leftist-elitist population to kill what made this country great,
> represented by the remainder."

I think we live in a post ideological world: YOU EITHER HAVE MONEY OR
YOU DON'T.

The problem is further complicated when those who don't, find their
freedom threatened in a fundamental way, like enjoying the community
on foot or bicycle, where those who can afford it live in gated
communities.

In other words, we are going slowly but surely back to feudalism. A
knight could come out of the blue and take away your life and your
horse.



TibetanMonkey, Originator Of The Banana Kung-Fu
2010-04-11 01:21:38 EST
On Apr 11, 1:11 am, "TibetanMonkey, Originator of the Banana Kung-Fu"
<*.@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 11, 12:18 am, Conscience <nobama@göv.com> wrote:
>
> > On 2010-04-10 18:09:43 -0700, "TibetanMonkey, Originator of the Banana
> > Kung-Fu" <comandante.ban...@yahoo.com> said:
>
> > >>> In other words, we are going slowly but surely back to feudalism. A
> > >>> knight could come out of the blue and take away your life and your
> > >>> horse.
>
> > >> Close enough.
>
> > > So you either live within the walls or outside the walls. ;)
>
> > +1
>
> Living inside or outside has both advantages and disadvantages. I'd
> feel like a prisoner inside the walls, seeing always the same people.
> But we sure have to tame the outside.
>
> I'm all for breaking the walls like the Berlin Wall.

Like I said, we should break all walls, but curiously the walls are
getting to Germany instead of going down elsewhere. I find it
disgusting and very communist...

(obviously this guy is a communist agent or an American developer)

Gated communities: the privatisation of residential areas should be
welcomed

'Arcadia Potsdam is Germany’s first gated community.

When Arcadia opened in 2006, it provoked sharp media criticism. The
Süddeutsche Zeitung daily, for example, spoke of “class-segregation”,
“residential disintegration” and the “privatisation of public living
space”. The critics argued that gated communities were a symptom of
increasing social polarisation and fragmentation.

These critics assumed that gated communities in Western countries
would be essentially the same as those in Rio de Janeiro or
Johannesburg. But had they examined the well-developed American market
for privately-owned residential areas, they might have noticed that
people’s motivations to choose this way of living are, in fact, very
diverse.'

http://www.cafebabel.co.uk/article/19593/fortress-bulgaria-gated-communities.html


TibetanMonkey, The-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit
2010-04-11 10:33:41 EST
On Apr 11, 3:16 am, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> TibetanMonkey, the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit wrote:
> > (link of MAKING NOISE corrected)
>
> > On Apr 10, 2:14 pm, Conscience <nobama@göv.com> wrote:
> >> On 2010-04-10 10:58:13 -0700, "TibetanMonkey,
> >> the-Monkey-with-the-Bag-of-Shit" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> said:
>
> >>> Try it now...
>
> >>>http://mybignoise.blogspot.com/2007/08/solidarity-law-of-jungle.html
>
> >> An amusing read. Too bad the irony contained within escapes most
> >> readers.
>
> >> Today the antithetical statement would be "We can hire 30%
> >> leftist-elitist population to kill what made this country great,
> >> represented by the remainder."
>
> > I think we live in a post ideological world: YOU EITHER HAVE MONEY OR
> > YOU DON'T.
>
> > The problem is further complicated when those who don't, find their
> > freedom threatened in a fundamental way, like enjoying the community
> > on foot or bicycle, where those who can afford it live in gated
> > communities.
>
> > In other words, we are going slowly but surely back to feudalism.
>
> You wouldnt know what real feudalism was if it bit you on your lard arse.
>
> > A knight could come out of the blue and take away your life and your horse.
>
> Only in your pathetic little drug crazed fantasyland.

Wasn't Feudalism all about protected citadels and power lords?

Place those lords in SUVs and Gated Communities and voila... you have
traveled in time!

The law of the jungle rules outside.

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