Vegetarian Discussion: Humane Meat?

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O.pearl
2009-08-15 10:14:44 EST
'Summer-Fall 2009 Poultry Press

Humane Meat?
It may seem easier to eat "humane meat"
than choose vegetarian, but in fact it's not.

For example, in The Omnivore's Dilemma (2007), Michael Pollan
endorses eating animals from Polyface farm, where "animals can be
animals," living, according to Pollan, true to their nature. But what is
Polyface really like? Rabbits on the farm are kept in small suspended-
wire cages. Chickens are crowded into mobile wire cages, confined
without the ability to nest or the space to establish a pecking order.
Pigs and cattle are shipped year-round in open trucks to conventional
slaughterhouses. Seventy-two hours before their slaughter, birds are
crated with seven other birds. After three days without food, they are
grabbed by the feet, up-ended in metal cones, and without any stunning,
have their throats slit.

[image at link - warning]

This is the system Pollan proclaims praiseworthy. In the end, Polyface's
view is the same as Tyson's - these individuals are, ultimately, just meat
to be sold for a profit. It's logically and emotionally impossible for there
to be any /real/ respect, any /true, fundamental/ concern for the interests
of these individuals when these living, breathing, feeling animals exist only
to be butchered and consumed. If we insist that we must consume actual
animal flesh instead of a vegetarian option, it's naïve, at best, to believe
any system will /really/ take good care of the animals we pay them to
slaughter. If you say an individual is just meat, they'll be treated as such. . . . .

Consuming or promoting "humane" meat is not a different diet, nor an
ethical example, nor an effective advocacy technique. It's just a variation
on the view of animals as meat. Calling any flesh-food "humane" - a word
that references the very best of our nature - bastardizes the very idea.

- From pp. 97-99 of The Animal Activist's Handbook: Maximizing
Our Positive Impact in Today's World, by Matt Ball and Bruce Friedrich,
Lantern Books, 2009
http://www.upc-online.org/summer2009/humane_meat.html


Dutch
2009-08-15 15:44:19 EST

"O.pearl" <private@iol.ie> wrote
> 'Summer-Fall 2009 Poultry Press
>
> Humane Meat?
> It may seem easier to eat "humane meat"
> than choose vegetarian, but in fact it's not.
>
> For example, in The Omnivore's Dilemma (2007), Michael Pollan
> endorses eating animals from Polyface farm, where "animals can be
> animals," living, according to Pollan, true to their nature. But what is
> Polyface really like? Rabbits on the farm are kept in small suspended-
> wire cages. Chickens are crowded into mobile wire cages, confined
> without the ability to nest or the space to establish a pecking order.
> Pigs and cattle are shipped year-round in open trucks to conventional
> slaughterhouses. Seventy-two hours before their slaughter, birds are
> crated with seven other birds. After three days without food [...]


Evidence?

O.pearl
2009-08-22 09:08:25 EST
"Dutch" wrote:

> "O.pearl" <private@iol.ie> wrote in message news:lpzhm.29741$j7.493418@news.indigo.ie...
>> 'Summer-Fall 2009 Poultry Press
>>
>> Humane Meat?
>> It may seem easier to eat "humane meat"
>> than choose vegetarian, but in fact it's not.
>>
>> For example, in The Omnivore's Dilemma (2007), Michael Pollan
>> endorses eating animals from Polyface farm, where "animals can be
>> animals," living, according to Pollan, true to their nature. But what is
>> Polyface really like? Rabbits on the farm are kept in small suspended-
>> wire cages. Chickens are crowded into mobile wire cages, confined
>> without the ability to nest or the space to establish a pecking order.
>> Pigs and cattle are shipped year-round in open trucks to conventional
>> slaughterhouses. Seventy-two hours before their slaughter, birds are
>> crated with seven other birds. After three days without food [...]
>
> Evidence?

Still here? You promote Polyface farm. Let's see you prove otherwise.



Dutch
2009-08-22 16:02:34 EST

"O.pearl" <private@iol.ie> wrote in message
news:e5Sjm.29801$j7.493329@news.indigo.ie...
> "Dutch" wrote:
>
>> "O.pearl" <private@iol.ie> wrote in message
>> news:lpzhm.29741$j7.493418@news.indigo.ie...
>>> 'Summer-Fall 2009 Poultry Press
>>> Humane Meat? It may seem easier to eat "humane meat" than choose
>>> vegetarian, but in fact it's not.
>>> For example, in The Omnivore's Dilemma (2007), Michael Pollan endorses
>>> eating animals from Polyface farm, where "animals can be animals,"
>>> living, according to Pollan, true to their nature. But what is Polyface
>>> really like? Rabbits on the farm are kept in small suspended- wire
>>> cages. Chickens are crowded into mobile wire cages, confined without the
>>> ability to nest or the space to establish a pecking order. Pigs and
>>> cattle are shipped year-round in open trucks to conventional
>>> slaughterhouses. Seventy-two hours before their slaughter, birds are
>>> crated with seven other birds. After three days without food [...]
>>
>> Evidence?
>
> Still here?

Me still here? My request for evidence has been sitting there for a week.

> You promote Polyface farm. Let's see you prove otherwise.

I didn't think any of that crap could be backed up.


O.pearl
2009-08-22 18:06:32 EST
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in message news:h6pirk$u0g$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "O.pearl" <private@iol.ie> wrote in message
> news:e5Sjm.29801$j7.493329@news.indigo.ie...
>> "Dutch" wrote:
>>
>>> "O.pearl" <private@iol.ie> wrote in message
>>> news:lpzhm.29741$j7.493418@news.indigo.ie...
>>>> 'Summer-Fall 2009 Poultry Press
>>>> Humane Meat? It may seem easier to eat "humane meat" than choose
>>>> vegetarian, but in fact it's not.
>>>> For example, in The Omnivore's Dilemma (2007), Michael Pollan endorses
>>>> eating animals from Polyface farm, where "animals can be animals,"
>>>> living, according to Pollan, true to their nature. But what is Polyface
>>>> really like? Rabbits on the farm are kept in small suspended- wire
>>>> cages. Chickens are crowded into mobile wire cages, confined without the
>>>> ability to nest or the space to establish a pecking order. Pigs and
>>>> cattle are shipped year-round in open trucks to conventional
>>>> slaughterhouses. Seventy-two hours before their slaughter, birds are
>>>> crated with seven other birds. After three days without food [...]
>>>
>>> Evidence?
>>
>> Still here?
>
> Me still here? My request for evidence has been sitting there for a week.

Always demanding evidence, but never provide any. Shameless.

> > You promote Polyface farm. Let's see you prove otherwise.
>
> I didn't think any of that crap could be backed up.

You don't think. Regardez....

http://www.roboppy.net/food/2008/08/virginia_day_3_part_2_polyface_farm_and_water_ice.html

Dutch
2009-08-22 22:09:26 EST

"O.pearl" <private@iol.ie> wrote in message
news:PZZjm.29802$j7.493400@news.indigo.ie...
> "Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in message
> news:h6pirk$u0g$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "O.pearl" <private@iol.ie> wrote in message
>> news:e5Sjm.29801$j7.493329@news.indigo.ie...
>>> "Dutch" wrote:
>>>
>>>> "O.pearl" <private@iol.ie> wrote in message
>>>> news:lpzhm.29741$j7.493418@news.indigo.ie...
>>>>> 'Summer-Fall 2009 Poultry Press
>>>>> Humane Meat? It may seem easier to eat "humane meat" than choose
>>>>> vegetarian, but in fact it's not.
>>>>> For example, in The Omnivore's Dilemma (2007), Michael Pollan endorses
>>>>> eating animals from Polyface farm, where "animals can be animals,"
>>>>> living, according to Pollan, true to their nature. But what is
>>>>> Polyface
>>>>> really like? Rabbits on the farm are kept in small suspended- wire
>>>>> cages. Chickens are crowded into mobile wire cages, confined without
>>>>> the
>>>>> ability to nest or the space to establish a pecking order. Pigs and
>>>>> cattle are shipped year-round in open trucks to conventional
>>>>> slaughterhouses. Seventy-two hours before their slaughter, birds are
>>>>> crated with seven other birds. After three days without food [...]
>>>>
>>>> Evidence?
>>>
>>> Still here?
>>
>> Me still here? My request for evidence has been sitting there for a week.
>
> Always demanding evidence, but never provide any. Shameless.

I'm not always demanding evidence, I seldom do. In this case however it is
warranted given all the outrageous claims.

>> > You promote Polyface farm. Let's see you prove otherwise.
>>
>> I didn't think any of that crap could be backed up.
>
> You don't think. Regardez....
>
> http://www.roboppy.net/food/2008/08/virginia_day_3_part_2_polyface_farm_and_water_ice.html

And..? That confirms what Pollan says in the book and what I have read. It
doesn't come close to proving what that reporter above said.



O.pearl
2009-08-23 06:44:44 EST
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in message news:h6q8bj$kl5$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "O.pearl" <private@iol.ie> wrote in message
> news:PZZjm.29802$j7.493400@news.indigo.ie...
>> "Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in message
>> news:h6pirk$u0g$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>
>>> "O.pearl" <private@iol.ie> wrote in message
>>> news:e5Sjm.29801$j7.493329@news.indigo.ie...
>>>> "Dutch" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "O.pearl" <private@iol.ie> wrote in message
>>>>> news:lpzhm.29741$j7.493418@news.indigo.ie...
>>>>>> 'Summer-Fall 2009 Poultry Press
>>>>>> Humane Meat? It may seem easier to eat "humane meat" than choose
>>>>>> vegetarian, but in fact it's not.
>>>>>> For example, in The Omnivore's Dilemma (2007), Michael Pollan endorses
>>>>>> eating animals from Polyface farm, where "animals can be animals,"
>>>>>> living, according to Pollan, true to their nature. But what is Polyface
>>>>>> really like? Rabbits on the farm are kept in small suspended- wire
>>>>>> cages. Chickens are crowded into mobile wire cages, confined without
>>>>>> the ability to nest or the space to establish a pecking order. Pigs and
>>>>>> cattle are shipped year-round in open trucks to conventional
>>>>>> slaughterhouses. Seventy-two hours before their slaughter, birds are
>>>>>> crated with seven other birds. After three days without food [...]
>>>>>
>>>>> Evidence?
>>>>
>>>> Still here?
>>>
>>> Me still here? My request for evidence has been sitting there for a week.
>>
>> Always demanding evidence, but never provide any. Shameless.
>
> I'm not always demanding evidence, I seldom do.

My bad... you're forever *avoiding* evidence.

> In this case however it is
> warranted given all the outrageous claims.

I think it's good that you find the facts outrageous. So do we.

>>> > You promote Polyface farm. Let's see you prove otherwise.
>>>
>>> I didn't think any of that crap could be backed up.
>>
>> You don't think. Regardez....
>>
>> http://www.roboppy.net/food/2008/08/virginia_day_3_part_2_polyface_farm_and_water_ice.html
>
> And..? That confirms what Pollan says in the book and what I have read.

'where "animals can be animals," living, according to Pollan, true to their nature.'?

> It doesn't come close to proving what that reporter above said.

It's looks exactly as he describes it.

'A visitor to Polyface Farm in Virginia wrote: "I toured Polyface on a sweltering
day. Chickens were in tiny cages with tin roofs in the beating sun, panting like
mad. The cages were located over manure piles the birds were supposed to eat
larvae from. Rabbits were kept in factory-farm conditions in suspended, barren
wire cages. There was no sign of freedom or compassion for these animals."
..'
http://www.upc-online.org/freerange.html

Dutch
2009-08-23 17:33:52 EST

"O.pearl" <private@iol.ie> wrote in message
news:x49km.29804$j7.493426@news.indigo.ie...
> "Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in message
> news:h6q8bj$kl5$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "O.pearl" <private@iol.ie> wrote in message
>> news:PZZjm.29802$j7.493400@news.indigo.ie...
>>> "Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in message
>>> news:h6pirk$u0g$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>
>>>> "O.pearl" <private@iol.ie> wrote in message
>>>> news:e5Sjm.29801$j7.493329@news.indigo.ie...
>>>>> "Dutch" wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "O.pearl" <private@iol.ie> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:lpzhm.29741$j7.493418@news.indigo.ie...
>>>>>>> 'Summer-Fall 2009 Poultry Press
>>>>>>> Humane Meat? It may seem easier to eat "humane meat" than choose
>>>>>>> vegetarian, but in fact it's not.
>>>>>>> For example, in The Omnivore's Dilemma (2007), Michael Pollan
>>>>>>> endorses
>>>>>>> eating animals from Polyface farm, where "animals can be animals,"
>>>>>>> living, according to Pollan, true to their nature. But what is
>>>>>>> Polyface
>>>>>>> really like? Rabbits on the farm are kept in small suspended- wire
>>>>>>> cages. Chickens are crowded into mobile wire cages, confined without
>>>>>>> the ability to nest or the space to establish a pecking order. Pigs
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> cattle are shipped year-round in open trucks to conventional
>>>>>>> slaughterhouses. Seventy-two hours before their slaughter, birds are
>>>>>>> crated with seven other birds. After three days without food [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Evidence?
>>>>>
>>>>> Still here?
>>>>
>>>> Me still here? My request for evidence has been sitting there for a
>>>> week.
>>>
>>> Always demanding evidence, but never provide any. Shameless.
>>
>> I'm not always demanding evidence, I seldom do.
>
> My bad...

Agreed. I am interested in reasonable opinions and arguments, always have
been. "Evidence" to support almost anything is readily available for the
copypasta crowd.

> you're forever *avoiding* evidence.

False

>> In this case however it is warranted given all the outrageous claims.
>
> I think it's good that you find the facts outrageous. So do we.

They're not facts, they are value judgments.

>
>>>> > You promote Polyface farm. Let's see you prove otherwise.
>>>>
>>>> I didn't think any of that crap could be backed up.
>>>
>>> You don't think. Regardez....
>>>
>>> http://www.roboppy.net/food/2008/08/virginia_day_3_part_2_polyface_farm_and_water_ice.html
>>
>> And..? That confirms what Pollan says in the book and what I have read.
>
> 'where "animals can be animals," living, according to Pollan, true to
> their nature.'?

I don't recall that particular quote in the book, however to an extent, yes.
They are domesticated animals after all.

>> It doesn't come close to proving what that reporter above said.
>
> It's looks exactly as he describes it.

No, it doesn't.
>
> 'A visitor to Polyface Farm in Virginia wrote: "I toured Polyface on a
> sweltering day. Chickens were in tiny cages with tin roofs in the beating
> sun, panting like mad.

Not seen in the photos.

The cages were located over manure piles the birds were supposed to eat
> larvae from.

Not seen, however, larvae are an excellent forage for chickens, very
nutritious and they would love them

Rabbits were kept in factory-farm conditions in suspended, barren
> wire cages.

Not seen in the photos

> There was no sign of freedom or compassion for these animals."

Opinion, not fact.

[..]


O.pearl
2009-08-24 08:53:06 EST
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in message news:h6scim$58a$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "O.pearl" <private@iol.ie> wrote in message news:x49km.29804$j7.493426@news.indigo.ie...
>> "Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in message news:h6q8bj$kl5$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>
>>> "O.pearl" <private@iol.ie> wrote in message news:PZZjm.29802$j7.493400@news.indigo.ie...
>>>> "Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in message news:h6pirk$u0g$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>
>>>>> "O.pearl" <private@iol.ie> wrote in message
>>>>> news:e5Sjm.29801$j7.493329@news.indigo.ie...
>>>>>> "Dutch" wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "O.pearl" <private@iol.ie> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:lpzhm.29741$j7.493418@news.indigo.ie...
>>>>>>>> 'Summer-Fall 2009 Poultry Press
>>>>>>>> Humane Meat? It may seem easier to eat "humane meat" than choose
>>>>>>>> vegetarian, but in fact it's not.
>>>>>>>> For example, in The Omnivore's Dilemma (2007), Michael Pollan endorses
>>>>>>>> eating animals from Polyface farm, where "animals can be animals,"
>>>>>>>> living, according to Pollan, true to their nature. But what is Polyface
>>>>>>>> really like? Rabbits on the farm are kept in small suspended- wire
>>>>>>>> cages. Chickens are crowded into mobile wire cages, confined without the ability to nest or the space to establish a
>>>>>>>> pecking order. Pigs and
>>>>>>>> cattle are shipped year-round in open trucks to conventional
>>>>>>>> slaughterhouses. Seventy-two hours before their slaughter, birds are
>>>>>>>> crated with seven other birds. After three days without food [...]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Evidence?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Still here?
>>>>>
>>>>> Me still here? My request for evidence has been sitting there for a week.
>>>>
>>>> Always demanding evidence, but never provide any. Shameless.
>>>
>>> I'm not always demanding evidence, I seldom do.
>>
>> My bad...
>
> Agreed. I am interested in reasonable opinions and arguments, always have been. "Evidence" to support almost anything is readily
> available for the copypasta crowd.

Learn the meaning.

Reasonable opinions and arguments are based on facts - which you ignore.

... Now ludicrously claiming that any/all evidence is essentially meaningless.

>> you're forever *avoiding* evidence.
>
> False

Pants ablaze!

>>> In this case however it is warranted given all the outrageous claims.
>>
>> I think it's good that you find the facts outrageous. So do we.
>
> They're not facts, they are value judgments.

It's an accurate portrayal of what's considered the gold standard in "welfare".

>>>>> > You promote Polyface farm. Let's see you prove otherwise.
>>>>>
>>>>> I didn't think any of that crap could be backed up.
>>>>
>>>> You don't think. Regardez....
>>>>
>>>> http://www.roboppy.net/food/2008/08/virginia_day_3_part_2_polyface_farm_and_water_ice.html
>>>
>>> And..? That confirms what Pollan says in the book and what I have read.
>>
>> 'where "animals can be animals," living, according to Pollan, true to their nature.'?
>
> I don't recall that particular quote in the book, however to an extent, yes.

To an extent, eh. What gives you the right to decide to what 'extent'?

> They are domesticated animals after all.

Meaning what exactly?

>>> It doesn't come close to proving what that reporter above said.
>>
>> It's looks exactly as he describes it.
>
> No, it doesn't.

Yes, it does.

'Rabbits on the farm are kept in small suspended- wire cages. Chickens
are crowded into mobile wire cages, confined without the ability to nest
or the space to establish a pecking order.'

Look: http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l215/ssluss/P6060032.jpg
Look: http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l215/ssluss/P6060039.jpg

>> 'A visitor to Polyface Farm in Virginia wrote: "I toured Polyface on a sweltering day. Chickens were in tiny cages with tin roofs
>> in the beating sun, panting like mad.
>
> Not seen in the photos.

Very clearly seen in the photos.

> The cages were located over manure piles the birds were supposed to eat
>> larvae from.
>
> Not seen, however, larvae are an excellent forage for chickens, very nutritious and they would love them

"The waiter said, 'All of our chicken is free-range.' And I said, 'He doesn't
look very free there on that plate.'" - Bob Joe Briggs, "We Are the Weird"

> Rabbits were kept in factory-farm conditions in suspended, barren
>> wire cages.
>
> Not seen in the photos

Seen. Here too:
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l215/ssluss/P6060039.jpg

> > There was no sign of freedom or compassion for these animals."
>
> Opinion, not fact.

'Dictionary: free·dom (fre'd?m)
n.
1. The condition of being free of restraints.
2. Liberty of the person from slavery, detention, or oppression.
3. a. Political independence.
b. Exemption from the arbitrary exercise of authority in the
performance of a specific action; civil liberty: freedom of assembly.
4. Exemption from an unpleasant or onerous condition: ...
5. The capacity to exercise choice; free will: ...
6. Ease or facility of movement: ...
7. Frankness or boldness; lack of modesty or reserve: ...
8. a. The right to unrestricted use; full access: ...
b. The right of enjoying all of the privileges of membership
or citizenship: the freedom of the city.
9. A right or the power to engage in certain actions without
control or interference:
..'
http://www.answers.com/freedom

'Compassion

Wikipedia

Compassion is a human emotion prompted by the pain of others.
More vigorous than empathy, the feeling commonly gives rise to
an active desire to alleviate another's suffering. It is often, though
not inevitably, the key component in what manifests in the social
context as altruism. In ethical terms, the various expressions
down the ages of the so-called Golden Rule embody by
implication the principle of compassion: Do to others what you
would have them do to you. [1]
..'
http://www.answers.com/topic/compassion

> [..] http://www.upc-online.org/freerange.html
>


O.pearl
2009-08-24 08:56:56 EST
correction*

"O.pearl" <private@iol.ie> wrote in message news:S2wkm.29816$j7.493408@news.indigo.ie...
> "Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in message news:h6scim$58a$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "O.pearl" <private@iol.ie> wrote in message news:x49km.29804$j7.493426@news.indigo.ie...
>>> "Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in message news:h6q8bj$kl5$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>
>>>> "O.pearl" <private@iol.ie> wrote in message news:PZZjm.29802$j7.493400@news.indigo.ie...
>>>>> "Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in message news:h6pirk$u0g$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "O.pearl" <private@iol.ie> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:e5Sjm.29801$j7.493329@news.indigo.ie...
>>>>>>> "Dutch" wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "O.pearl" <private@iol.ie> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:lpzhm.29741$j7.493418@news.indigo.ie...
>>>>>>>>> 'Summer-Fall 2009 Poultry Press
>>>>>>>>> Humane Meat? It may seem easier to eat "humane meat" than choose
>>>>>>>>> vegetarian, but in fact it's not.
>>>>>>>>> For example, in The Omnivore's Dilemma (2007), Michael Pollan endorses
>>>>>>>>> eating animals from Polyface farm, where "animals can be animals,"
>>>>>>>>> living, according to Pollan, true to their nature. But what is Polyface
>>>>>>>>> really like? Rabbits on the farm are kept in small suspended- wire
>>>>>>>>> cages. Chickens are crowded into mobile wire cages, confined without the ability to nest or the space to establish a
>>>>>>>>> pecking order. Pigs and
>>>>>>>>> cattle are shipped year-round in open trucks to conventional
>>>>>>>>> slaughterhouses. Seventy-two hours before their slaughter, birds are
>>>>>>>>> crated with seven other birds. After three days without food [...]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Evidence?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Still here?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Me still here? My request for evidence has been sitting there for a week.
>>>>>
>>>>> Always demanding evidence, but never provide any. Shameless.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not always demanding evidence, I seldom do.
>>>
>>> My bad...
>>
>> Agreed. I am interested in reasonable opinions and arguments, always have been. "Evidence" to support almost anything is readily
>> available for the copypasta crowd.
>
> Learn the meaning.
>
> Reasonable opinions and arguments are based on facts - which you ignore.
>
> ... Now ludicrously claiming that any/all evidence is essentially meaningless.
>
>>> you're forever *avoiding* evidence.
>>
>> False
>
> Pants ablaze!
>
>>>> In this case however it is warranted given all the outrageous claims.
>>>
>>> I think it's good that you find the facts outrageous. So do we.
>>
>> They're not facts, they are value judgments.
>
> It's an accurate portrayal of what's considered the gold standard in "welfare".
>
>>>>>> > You promote Polyface farm. Let's see you prove otherwise.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I didn't think any of that crap could be backed up.
>>>>>
>>>>> You don't think. Regardez....
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.roboppy.net/food/2008/08/virginia_day_3_part_2_polyface_farm_and_water_ice.html
>>>>
>>>> And..? That confirms what Pollan says in the book and what I have read.
>>>
>>> 'where "animals can be animals," living, according to Pollan, true to their nature.'?
>>
>> I don't recall that particular quote in the book, however to an extent, yes.
>
> To an extent, eh. What gives you the right to decide to what 'extent'?
>
>> They are domesticated animals after all.
>
> Meaning what exactly?
>
>>>> It doesn't come close to proving what that reporter above said.
>>>
>>> It's looks exactly as he describes it.
>>
>> No, it doesn't.
>
> Yes, it does.
>
> 'Rabbits on the farm are kept in small suspended- wire cages. Chickens
> are crowded into mobile wire cages, confined without the ability to nest
> or the space to establish a pecking order.'
>
> Look: http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l215/ssluss/P6060032.jpg
> Look: http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l215/ssluss/P6060039.jpg
>
>>> 'A visitor to Polyface Farm in Virginia wrote: "I toured Polyface on a sweltering day. Chickens were in tiny cages with tin
>>> roofs in the beating sun, panting like mad.
>>
>> Not seen in the photos.
>
> Very clearly seen in the photos.
>
>> The cages were located over manure piles the birds were supposed to eat
>>> larvae from.
>>
>> Not seen, however, larvae are an excellent forage for chickens, very nutritious and they would love them
>
> "The waiter said, 'All of our chicken is free-range.' And I said, 'He doesn't
> look very free there on that plate.'" - Bob Joe Briggs, "We Are the Weird"
>
>> Rabbits were kept in factory-farm conditions in suspended, barren
>>> wire cages.
>>
>> Not seen in the photos
>
> Seen. Here too:
*> http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l215/ssluss/P6060032.jpg
>
>> > There was no sign of freedom or compassion for these animals."
>>
>> Opinion, not fact.
>
> 'Dictionary: free·dom (fre'd?m)
> n.
> 1. The condition of being free of restraints.
> 2. Liberty of the person from slavery, detention, or oppression.
> 3. a. Political independence.
> b. Exemption from the arbitrary exercise of authority in the
> performance of a specific action; civil liberty: freedom of assembly.
> 4. Exemption from an unpleasant or onerous condition: ...
> 5. The capacity to exercise choice; free will: ...
> 6. Ease or facility of movement: ...
> 7. Frankness or boldness; lack of modesty or reserve: ...
> 8. a. The right to unrestricted use; full access: ...
> b. The right of enjoying all of the privileges of membership
> or citizenship: the freedom of the city.
> 9. A right or the power to engage in certain actions without
> control or interference:
> ..'
> http://www.answers.com/freedom
>
> 'Compassion
>
> Wikipedia
>
> Compassion is a human emotion prompted by the pain of others.
> More vigorous than empathy, the feeling commonly gives rise to
> an active desire to alleviate another's suffering. It is often, though
> not inevitably, the key component in what manifests in the social
> context as altruism. In ethical terms, the various expressions
> down the ages of the so-called Golden Rule embody by
> implication the principle of compassion: Do to others what you
> would have them do to you. [1]
> ..'
> http://www.answers.com/topic/compassion
>
>> [..] http://www.upc-online.org/freerange.html
>>
>

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