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'Vegan - Vegetarian Solutions . . .
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O.pearl
2009-07-12 14:06:38 EST

'Vegan - Vegetarian Solutions . . .
. . . for a Sustainable Environment (VSSE)
..
There are many reasons why the Vegan - Vegetarian lifestyle is the best
choice. There are many podcasts that focus on the Animal Cruelty/Animal
Rights reasons while others add the health and environmental reasons.
The "Vegan - Vegetarian Solutions for a Sustainable Environment" podcast
will focus on the Environmental Reasons.
..
Richard Schwartz "An Alternative US Foreign Policy"
Mike Hudak "Violence and Social Harassment"
Ken Midkiff "Repetition Of A Lie"
Plato, Pythagoras, Socrates
Pamela Rice "Fossil Fuel Alchemy"
Kathy Freston "A Few More 'Inconvenient Truths' "
Howard Lyman and Jerry Cook "Environmental Effects of Animal Factory
Farming"
Karen Davis "Why Industrial Chicken Production is Wrong"
Dr. Rajendra Pachauri "Meat and Climate Change"
George Monbiot "Why Vegans Were Right All Along"
Richard Schwartz "Ten Strategies Toward a Vegetarian Conscious World"
Earth & Sky "Newspapers Neglect Food Impact On Climate"
Cesar Chavez "The Basis For Peace"
Dan Brook "Eating for Personal, Public, and Planetary Health"
Mike Hudak "Politics Trumps Science in Rangeland Management"
10 Online Videos on Meat and Global Warming
David Pimentel "Reducing Energy Inputs in the US Food System"
LOBSA "Vegan/AR Video Collection"
Kathy Freston "Vegetarian is the New Prius"
Mike Hudak "Ranchers Mortgage Our Natural Capital"
Aryan Tavakkoli "Misuse Of Water And Soil Through Meat Production"
Lee Hall "Veganism: It's Good for the Earth -- But Is It a Realistic Goal?"
Ken Midkiff "CAFO's: Air And Water Pollution"
Will Tuttle "World Peace Diet"
Pamela Rice: "World Water III"
Dan Brook: "Meat and Global Warming"
UN Says "Eat Less Meat To Curb Global Warming"
Richard Schwartz "Responding to Environmental Crises"
Howard Lyman "Spongiform"
..
http://h2opodcast.com/vsse.html

Dutch
2009-07-12 15:04:05 EST
O.pearl wrote:
>
> 'Vegan - Vegetarian Solutions . . .
> . . . for a Sustainable Environment (VSSE) ..
> There are many reasons why the Vegan - Vegetarian lifestyle is the best
> choice.

For whom?

Raising animals or hunting is the *only* choice for a large
part of the world's human population.

You have turned a decent lifestyle alternative into a
religion, and by doing so so corrupted it that it has lost
whatever positive value it had.

O.pearl
2009-07-13 03:58:33 EST
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in message news:Gsq6m.11398$3o6.755@newsfe24.iad...
> O.pearl wrote:
>>
>> 'Vegan - Vegetarian Solutions . . .
>> . . . for a Sustainable Environment (VSSE) ..
>> There are many reasons why the Vegan - Vegetarian lifestyle is the best
>> choice.
>
> For whom?

Everyone.

> Raising animals or hunting is the *only* choice for a large
> part of the world's human population.

Ipse dixit.

<ad hominem snipped>

Dutch
2009-07-13 05:33:31 EST
O.pearl wrote:
> "Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in message
> news:Gsq6m.11398$3o6.755@newsfe24.iad...
>> O.pearl wrote:
>>>
>>> 'Vegan - Vegetarian Solutions . . .
>>> . . . for a Sustainable Environment (VSSE) ..
>>> There are many reasons why the Vegan - Vegetarian lifestyle is the
>>> best choice.
>>
>> For whom?
>
> Everyone.

I'm sure the Inuit are impressed, or the many tribes in East
Asia and Africa who depend on herds of goats because the
harsh nature of the land and climate makes agriculture
impractical. Veganism is for comfortable western dingbats
with too much time on their hands.

>> Raising animals or hunting is the *only* choice for a large part of
>> the world's human population.
>
> Ipse dixit.

What a loon.

> <truth I can't stand to read snipped>

Get back in my killfile you nutcase.

O.pearl
2009-07-13 07:04:50 EST
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in message news:MbD6m.2607$lE6.2233@newsfe05.iad...
> O.pearl wrote:
>> "Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in message
>> news:Gsq6m.11398$3o6.755@newsfe24.iad...
>>> O.pearl wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 'Vegan - Vegetarian Solutions . . .
>>>> . . . for a Sustainable Environment (VSSE) ..
>>>> There are many reasons why the Vegan - Vegetarian lifestyle is the
>>>> best choice.
>>>
>>> For whom?
>>
>> Everyone.
>
> I'm sure the Inuit are impressed,

'American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol 27, 916-925, 1974
Bone mineral content of North Alaskan Eskimos
Richard B. Mazess Ph.D.1 and Warren Mather B.S.1
1 From the Bone Mineral Laboratory, Department of Radiology
(Medical Physics), University of Wisconsin Hospital, Madison,
Wisconsin 53706
Direct photon absorptiometry was used to measure the bone mineral
content of forearm bones in Eskimo natives of the north coast of
Alaska. The sample consisted of 217 children, 89 adults, and 107
elderly (over 50 years). Eskimo children had a lower bone mineral
content than United States whites by 5 to 10% but this was consistent
with their smaller body and bone size. Young Eskimo adults (20 to 39
years) of both sexes were similar to whites, but after age 40 the
Eskimos of both sexes had a deficit of from 10 to 15% relative to
white standards. Aging bone loss, which occurs in many populations,
has an earlier onset and greater intensity in the Eskimos. Nutritional
factors of high protein, high nitrogen, high phosphorus, and low
calcium intakes may be implicated.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/27/9/916

But these days they reportedly eat a lot of /imported/ junk food..

> or the many tribes in East
> Asia and Africa who depend on herds of goats because the
> harsh nature of the land and climate makes agriculture
> impractical. Veganism is for comfortable western dingbats
> with too much time on their hands.

'"Flesh foods are not the best nourishment for human beings and were
not the food of our primitive ancestors," observes Dr. Kellogg. "There
is nothing necessary or desirable for human nutrition to be found in
meats or flesh foods which is not found in and derived from vegetable
products."

Although writing in 1923, Dr. Kellogg's words confirm a recent statement
by the American Dietetic Association, that, "most of mankind for most
of human history has lived on vegetarian or near vegetarian diets."

"The human race in general has never really adopted flesh as a staple food,"
explains Dr. Kellogg. "The Anglo-Saxons and a few savage tribes are about
the only flesh-eating people. The people of other nations use meat only as
a luxury or an emergency diet. According to Mori, the Japanese peasant of
the interior is almost an exclusive vegetarian. He eats fish once or twice a
month and meat once or twice a year."

Dr. Kellogg writes that in 1899, the Emperor of Japan appointed a
commission to determine whether it was necessary to add meat to the
nation's diet to improve the people's strength and stature. The
commission concluded that as far as meat was concerned, "the Japanese
had always managed to do without it, and that their powers of endurance
and their athletic prowess exceeded that of any of the Caucasian races.
Japan's diet stands on a foundation of rice."

According to Dr. Kellogg, "the rice diet of the Japanese is supplemented
by the free use of peanuts, soy beans, and greens, which...constitute a
wholly sufficient bill of fare. Throughout the Island Empire, rice is largely
used, together with buckwheat, barley, wheat, and millet. Turnips and
radishes, yams and sweet potatos are frequently used, also cucumbers,
pumpkins and squashes. The soy bean is held in high esteem and used
largely in the form of miso, a puree prepared from the bean and fermented;
also to-fu, a sort of cheese; and cho-yu, which is prepared by mixing the
pulverized beans with wheat flour, salt, and water and fermenting from
one and a half to five years.

"The Chinese peasant lives on essentially the same diet, as do also the
Siamese, the Koreans, and most other Oriental peoples. Three-fourths
of the world's population eat so little meat that it cannot be regarded as
anything more than an incidental factor in their bill of fare. The countless
millions of China," writes Dr. Kellogg, "are for the most part flesh-
abstainers. In fact, at least two-thirds of the inhabitants of the world
make so little use of flesh that it can hardly be considered an essential
part of their dietary...The ancient vegetarian races of Mexico and Peru
had attained to a high degree of civilization when discovered by Cortez,
and were certainly far more gentle and amiable in character than were
their flesh-eating conquerors, whose treachery and cold-blooded
atrocities so nearly resulted in the complete extinction of a noble race."

Dr. Kellogg reports that the South American bark-gatherers live
"almost wholly upon bananas and other equally simple vegetable food...
Certain tribes of South American Indians who subsist wholly upon a
non-flesh dietary, are remarkable for vigor and endurance...the natives
of the great plateau of the Andes subsist almost wholly upon corn and
potatos...the old Peruvians...were practically vegetarians." Dr. Kellogg
quotes Charles Darwin as having described the laborers in the mines of
Chile living "exclusively on vegetable food, including many seeds of
leguminous plants."

Concerning Central Africa, Dr. Kellogg admits, "It is true that practically
all the natives eat meat on occasion, but...the chief sustenance of the
native is obtained from the products of the earth, which are most abundant
in this fertile region. Maize, yuma, manioc, coconuts, palm cabbage,
bananas, and a great number of fruits and nuts afford ample variety and
sufficient nourishment without flesh foods."

Dr. Kellogg cites a Mr. Sarvis of the Boston Transcript, who wrote:
"The Bantu race, who inhabit the great part of Central Africa, are almost
entirely vegetarian... Generally, their food consists largely of a kind of
millet, which is almost tasteless... Bananas and sweet potatos also form
a very important part of the diet of the African races of the central parts
...The natives also eat vegetables and salads of many kinds. In a few
districts cattle are kept for the milk and butter, but the natives do not
kill the animals for food...The Kavirondos wear no clothing whatever,
and they are absolute vegetarians, the banana forming the base of their
food."

The Ladrone Islands were discovered by the Spaniards around 1620.
There were no animals on the islands except birds, which the natives
did not eat. The natives had never seen fire, and they lived entirely on
plant foods-fruits and roots in their natural state. They were found
to be vigorous, active, and of good longevity.

Dr. Kellogg gives an account of the "Silesians, Roumanians, and many
Oriental people," all of whom he says "are almost exclusively vegetarians,
and enjoy a degree of vigor, vitality, and longevity not found among
flesh-eating nations."

In his 1583 text, Anatomy of Abuses, Stubbes wrote that previous
generations "fed upon graine, corne, roots, pulse, hearbes, weedes,
and such other baggage; and yet lived longer than we, were healthfuller
than we, of better complexion than we, and much stronger than we in
every respect." A century later, Macauley noted that, "meat was so
dear in price that hundreds of thousands of families scarcely knew the
taste of it," while half the population of England, "ate it not at all or
not more often than once a week."

Writing in the 1840s, Sylvester Graham observed: "The peasantry of
Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, Turkey, Greece, Italy,
Switzerland, France, Spain, England, Scotland, Ireland, a considerable
portion of Russia and other parts of Europe subsist mainly on non-flesh
foods. The peasantry of modern Greece...subsist on coarse brown bread
and fruits. The peasantry in many parts of Russia live on very coarse
bread, with garlic and other vegetables; and like the same class in Greece,
Italy, etc., they are obliged to be extremely frugal even in this kind of food.
Yet they are (for the most part) healthy, vigorous, and active. Many of the
inhabitants of Germany live mainly on rye and barley, in the form of coarse
bread.

"The potato is the principle food of the Irish peasantry, and few portions
of the human family are more healthy, athletic, and active...That portion of
the peasantry of England and Scotland who subsist on their barley and
oatmeal bread, porridge, potatos, and other vegetables, with temperate,
cleanly habits (and surroundings) are able to endure more fatigue and
exposure than any other class of people in the same countries.
Three-fourths of the whole human family, in all periods of time...have
subsisted on non-flesh foods; and when their supplies have been abundant
and their habits in other respects correct, they have been well nourished."

Dr. Kellogg also found a vegetarian lifestyle to be the norm in much of
Europe: "An official report shows that the diet of the Swiss peasant
includes little or no meat. 'In the Schwyz canton, the people have long
lived on plant food, without flesh. They are a fine set of independent
mountaineers, and from this canton the freedom of the Swiss was born.'
The peasants of northern Italy eat meat twice a year. They are remarkably
robust and hearty.

"The hardy Scotch have never been great meat eaters. In the remote districts
kailbrose, shredded greens and oatmeal over which hot water is poured, is
eaten with or without milk...According to Douglas, writing in 1782, the diet
of the Scotch of the East Coast was then oatmeal and milk with vegetables.
He says: 'Flesh is never seen in the houses of the common farmers, except
at a baptism, a wedding, Christmas, or Shrovetide.'"
...'
http://www.all-creatures.org/murti/tsnhod-14.html

>>> Raising animals or hunting is the *only* choice for a large part of
>>> the world's human population.
>>
>> Ipse dixit.
>
> What a loon.

What a delusional ignoramus.

>> <truth I can't stand to read snipped>

Dishonest edit.

> Get back in my killfile you nutcase.

Off you troll now, despicable lowlife.

MorrisonAndBoyd
2009-07-20 17:26:55 EST
Dutch wrote:
> O.pearl wrote:
>> 'Vegan - Vegetarian Solutions . . .
>> . . . for a Sustainable Environment (VSSE) ..
>> There are many reasons why the Vegan - Vegetarian lifestyle is the best
>> choice.

> For whom?

For anyone with a heart. Anyone who cares about sentient beings, even
if they're not the two-legged kind.

> Raising animals or hunting is the *only* choice for a large
> part of the world's human population.

That makes no sense. It's MANY TIMES more expensive, and more
resource-intensive (think water usage), to raise animals for food than
it is to raise plants for food.

> You have turned a decent lifestyle alternative into a
> religion, and by doing so so corrupted it that it has lost
> whatever positive value it had.

That's ludicrous. The reasons for being v*gan are valid REGARDLESS of
any proselytizing any one individual or group may do. What reasons?
Compassion. Refusing to participate in the torture and killing of
animals. Having respect for all sentient beings. Understanding that
animals feel and experience the same emotional and physical things
humans do. And so on.

--

CafePress screwing its shopkeepers. Please sign this petition:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/help-CafePress-shopkeepers-earn-fair-pay

Linux users, be counted! Register with Linux counter: http://counter.li.org

Vegan/vegetarian, animal-related merchandise:
http://www.smartassproducts.com/sections_animals.shtml

Dutch
2009-07-21 02:59:44 EST
MorrisonAndBoyd wrote:
> Dutch wrote:
>> O.pearl wrote:
>>> 'Vegan - Vegetarian Solutions . . .
>>> . . . for a Sustainable Environment (VSSE) ..
>>> There are many reasons why the Vegan - Vegetarian lifestyle is the
>>> best choice.
>
>> For whom?
>
> For anyone with a heart. Anyone who cares about sentient beings, even
> if they're not the two-legged kind.

You're suffering from the prototypical vegan delusion. ALL
forms of agriculture cause animal death, you're not
eliminating it by being a vegan, you're just refusing to
allow the evidence to appear on your plate.

>
>> Raising animals or hunting is the *only* choice for a large part of
>> the world's human population.
>
> That makes no sense. It's MANY TIMES more expensive, and more
> resource-intensive (think water usage), to raise animals for food than
> it is to raise plants for food.

Not all land supports plant agriculture.

>
>> You have turned a decent lifestyle alternative into a religion, and by
>> doing so so corrupted it that it has lost whatever positive value it had.
>
> That's ludicrous. The reasons for being v*gan are valid REGARDLESS of
> any proselytizing any one individual or group may do. What reasons?
> Compassion. Refusing to participate in the torture and killing of
> animals. Having respect for all sentient beings. Understanding that
> animals feel and experience the same emotional and physical things
> humans do. And so on.

You're participating plenty.

Vegans Are Good!
2009-07-26 03:00:53 EST
Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:

> MorrisonAndBoyd wrote:
> > Dutch wrote:
> >> O.pearl wrote:
> >>> 'Vegan - Vegetarian Solutions . . .
> >>> . . . for a Sustainable Environment (VSSE) ..
> >>> There are many reasons why the Vegan - Vegetarian lifestyle is the
> >>> best choice.
> >
> >> For whom?
> >
> > For anyone with a heart. Anyone who cares about sentient beings, even
> > if they're not the two-legged kind.
>
> You're suffering from the prototypical vegan delusion. ALL
> forms of agriculture cause animal death, you're not
> eliminating it by being a vegan, you're just refusing to
> allow the evidence to appear on your plate.

I have plenty of vegan evidence on my plate. Yes, they can
be a bit tough, and sometimes gamey. But some pressure
cooking, a little Tabasco, and a lot of ketchup does the
trick.

Every vegan you eat saves half a cow!

O.pearl
2009-07-26 07:52:00 EST
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in message news:CHd9m.20135$8l4.7670@newsfe10.iad...
> MorrisonAndBoyd wrote:
>> Dutch wrote:
>>> O.pearl wrote:
>>>> 'Vegan - Vegetarian Solutions . . .
>>>> . . . for a Sustainable Environment (VSSE) ..
>>>> There are many reasons why the Vegan - Vegetarian lifestyle is the
>>>> best choice.
>>
>>> For whom?
>>
>> For anyone with a heart. Anyone who cares about sentient beings, even
>> if they're not the two-legged kind.
>
> You're suffering from the prototypical vegan delusion.

Such a nice decent fellow, our ditch. What a joke.

"It always gave me a kind of puffed-up feeling when I thought I had
made someone feel a little uncomfortable, a little guilty about their diet. "
- Dutch, 21/8/2006.

And clearly it still does.

"Deluding myself felt good" - Dutch, Jun 4 2005.

And clearly it still does.

> ALL forms of agriculture cause animal death,

What animal deaths are caused by forest gardening?

http://www.spiralseed.co.uk/forestgarden/page2.html

What animal deaths are caused by organic horticulture?

Provide credible evidence.

> you're not
> eliminating it by being a vegan, you're just refusing to
> allow the evidence to appear on your plate.

"Dutch" accepts Davis' figures, below. (Conventional ag', probable forage crop).

'Each year in the United States, approximately ten billion land animals are raised
and slaughtered for human consumption.
....
The wild mouse lives free of confinement and is able to practice natural habits
like roaming, breeding,and foraging. In contrast, the grass-fed cow, while able
to roam some distance in a fenced pasture, may suffer third-degree burns
(branding), have holes punched in his ears (tagging), be castrated, have his
horns scooped out of his head (dehorning), and be kept from breeding naturally.
Once reaching market weight, he can be transported up to several hundred
miles without food, water, or protection from extreme heat or cold; then he is
killed in a conventional slaughterhouse. The conditions of slaughter-houses
have been described in detail elsewhere (Eisnitz, 1997). Suffice it to say, it is
hard to imagine that the pain experienced by a mouse as she or he is killed in
a harvester compares to the pain even a grass-fed cow must endure before
being killed.
..
Davis suggests the number of wild animals killed per hectare in crop production
(15) is twice that killed in ruminant-pasture (7.5). If this is true, then as long as
crop production uses less than half as many hectares as ruminant-pasture to
deliver the same amount of food, a vegetarian will kill fewer animals than an
omnivore. In fact, crop production uses less than half as many hectares as
grass-fed dairy and one-tenth as many hectares as grass-fed beef to deliver
the same amount of protein. In one year, 1,000 kilograms of protein can be
produced on as few as 1.0 hectares planted with soy and corn, 2.6 hectares
used as pasture for grass-fed dairy cows, or 10 hectares used as pasture for
grass-fed beef cattle (Vandehaar, 1998;UNFAO, 1996). As such, to obtain
the 20 kilograms of protein per year recommended for adults, a vegan-
vegetarian would kill 0.3 wild animals annually, a lacto-vegetarian would kill
0.39 wild animals, while a Davis-style omnivore would kill 1.5 wild animals.
Thus, correcting Davis's math, we see that a vegan-vegetarian population
would kill the fewest number of wild animals, followed closely by a lacto-
vegetarian population.
..'
http://jgmatheny.org/matheny%202003.pdf

>>> Raising animals or hunting is the *only* choice for a large part of
>>> the world's human population.
>>
>> That makes no sense. It's MANY TIMES more expensive, and more
>> resource-intensive (think water usage), to raise animals for food than
>> it is to raise plants for food.
>
> Not all land supports plant agriculture.

>From Technological Trajectories and the Human Environment. 1997. Pp. 56-73.
Washington, DC: National Academy Press "How Much Land Can Ten Billion
People Spare for Nature?"...

'By eating different species of crops and a more or less vegetarian diet people
can change the number that a plot can feed. And large numbers of people do
change their diets. The calories and protein available from present cropland
could provide a vegetarian diet to ten billion people. A diet requiring food
and feed totaling 6,000 calories daily for ten billion people, however, would
overwhelm the capability of present agriculture on present cropland. The
global totals of sun, CO2, fertilizer, and even water could produce far more
food than what ten billion people need.
..'
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?re...d=4767&page=56

Note that what is being referred to here is arable cropland, not including the
30% - 50% of land globally used for grazing domestic 'livestock' with the
destruction of natural habitat and ecological communities that entails. See:
http://www.wasteofthewest.com/Chapter6.html (global perspective).

'Inefficient Food Production

Producing the equivalent amount of protein from meat takes 11 times the
amount of fossil fuel use compared to a vegetable based protein.

Further, producing the equivalent amount of animal protein takes 100 times
more water than for vegetable protein. Much of this use comes from growing
the crops and forage for livestock with agricultural irrigation accounting for
85% of freshwater use. [3] Fish protein also requires 14 times more fossil
fuels than that required to produce vegetable protein (when the fish are
caught via trawlers). [4]

In regard to meat and soy products, an equivalent amount of meat protein
requires 6 to 17 times the amount of land than soy protein. Additionally,
meat production requires 4.4 times the amount of water through intensive
irrigation, and 26 times the amount of water through rainfall alone,
compared to soy. Meat production also requires between 2.5 and 50 times
(depending on the intensity of agriculture) the fossil fuels than soy protein
requires. [4]

Comparing cheese produced with cows' milk or with lupin, cows' milk
cheese requires 5 times the land compared to lupin cheese, and cows' milk
cheese has between 9 to 21 times the environmental burden than lupin cheese.
[4]

A recent study found that a vegan diet had the lowest impact on the environment.
Organic farming was also better for the environment than conventional methods.
In assessing the impact of single food items beef had the biggest impact followed
by fish, cheese and milk. The sources of stress were from waste produced that
couldn't be used as fertilizer, land use, fossil fuel use and water use. The use of
water for irrigating lands and crops to feed cattle was noted as an inefficient use
of natural resources and unsustainable to feed future generations. It was also
noted that land clearing in developing countries is often used for grazing and crop
feeds for animals consumed in western countries rather than the crops being used
to feed local populations. [5]

Another recent study investigated ways to reduce the impact of livestock
production on the environment. Improved environmental practices were cited
as one recommendation, however current efficiency measures were noted as
not producing the amount of change required to significantly impact on emissions.
Thus it was proposed that western countries significantly reduce their red meat
consumption and that developing countries aim to reach this lower target,
labelled a constriction and convergence policy which was argued as the most
equitable way of addressing the problem. The authors commented that such an
approach would also have health benefits by reducing the prevalence of chronic
disease and lowering the contact between humans and zoonotic infections.
Increased communication, pricing signals and policies which reduce population
growth were all recommended to address the significant problem of ensuring
resources are able to meet future population needs. The authors concluded that
there are clear environmental benefits of plant-based diets. [6]
...'
http://www.ara.org.au/index.php/Go-Vegan/go-vegan-for-the-earth.html

>>> You have turned a decent lifestyle alternative into a religion, and by
>>> doing so so corrupted it that it has lost whatever positive value it had.
>>
>> That's ludicrous. The reasons for being v*gan are valid REGARDLESS of
>> any proselytizing any one individual or group may do. What reasons?
>> Compassion. Refusing to participate in the torture and killing of
>> animals. Having respect for all sentient beings. Understanding that
>> animals feel and experience the same emotional and physical things
>> humans do. And so on.
>
> You're participating plenty.

No, you're self-deluded plenty, bloody psycho troll.

Dutch
2009-07-26 16:04:23 EST
O.pearl wrote:
> "Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in message
> news:CHd9m.20135$8l4.7670@newsfe10.iad...
>> MorrisonAndBoyd wrote:
>>> Dutch wrote:
>>>> O.pearl wrote:
>>>>> 'Vegan - Vegetarian Solutions . . .
>>>>> . . . for a Sustainable Environment (VSSE) ..
>>>>> There are many reasons why the Vegan - Vegetarian lifestyle is the
>>>>> best choice.
>>>
>>>> For whom?
>>>
>>> For anyone with a heart. Anyone who cares about sentient beings,
>>> even if they're not the two-legged kind.
>>
>> You're suffering from the prototypical vegan delusion.
>
> Such a nice decent fellow, our ditch. What a joke.

Joke is right. I'm not the one accusing everyone of being heartless
monsters for his own gratification.

[..]

>>>> You have turned a decent lifestyle alternative into a religion, and
>>>> by doing so so corrupted it that it has lost whatever positive value
>>>> it had.
>>>
>>> That's ludicrous. The reasons for being v*gan are valid REGARDLESS
>>> of any proselytizing any one individual or group may do. What
>>> reasons? Compassion. Refusing to participate in the torture and
>>> killing of animals. Having respect for all sentient beings.
>>> Understanding that animals feel and experience the same emotional and
>>> physical things humans do. And so on.
>>
>> You're participating plenty.
>
> No, you're self-deluded plenty, bloody psycho troll.

Thanks for the demonstration of how a nice decent human being behaves.


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