Vegetarian Discussion: The Small Brains MYTH - How PETA & PCRM Let Us Down...

The Small Brains MYTH - How PETA & PCRM Let Us Down...
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C*@yahoo.com
2008-10-04 15:32:05 EST
FYI...

(start at the bottom and work up)

From: jlwn111@hotmail.com
To: jlwn111@gmail.com
Subject: PCRM & PETA Let Us Down...
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 16:26:36 +0000

Hello.

As a friend of the vegan and vegetarian movements, I'm sure you were
as shocked as I was by the curious lack of response to the
"vegetarians have small brains" nonsense-story. A story that,
unbelievably, is still floating around out there (based on when I'm
still getting from my Google News search-bots). The time for high-
visibility organizations like PETA and PCRM to act was weeks ago. In
the chain below, I kind of let PETA off the hook based on their
initial response. But clearly they could have been more vocal as well.
WAY more vocal. And when I say "more" I mean they could have some
something - ANYTHING - in the form of a press release or something.
But no. There was nothing. Except ONE SINGLE "letter to the editor" in
a paper in India. INDIA?! Yes, India. LOL!!!

I mean, c'mon, why wouldn't at least one of them have taken to the
center of the world's media stage and offered a response to the
seriously flawed misuse of statistics that was at the core of the
story? It's baffling. Truly baffling. And very sad. If not one of
these two groups, THEN WHO? Yes, it sucks.

If I ever do hear from PCRM in response to what I've written below, I
will let you know. But quite frankly, it's not looking good.

Bests,
Jim

p.s. --- Actually, I'm blind copying my contacts from PETA and PCRM
onto the distro for this - so if I hear back from ANY of them, I will
let you know.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jlwn111@hotmail.com
To: ksullivan@pcrm.org; jeannem@pcrm.org; pcrm@pcrm.org;
r*h@pcrm.org
CC: carriee@petaf.org
Subject: *** SHAME ON PCRM FOR NOT RESPONDING!!! *** RE: Please
Address the SMALL BRAINS stories!!!
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2008 16:11:11 +0000

PCRM -

It's really hard to imagine a good reason why you haven't replied. I
can imagine lots of stupid reasons. And lots of reasons that sound
like lies. But I cannot imagine any GOOD and REAL and TRUE reasons. I
am grateful that I heard back from PETA and clearly they provided you
with some "ammo" to help rebuke this NONSENSE-STORY about vegetarians
and their tiny brains. I call it a nonsense story and maybe you do too
(at least I hope you do). But there are millions of others out there
who stupidly said "I told you so" upon hearing that story. And when we
ignore their ignorance and let them to continue to feel vindicated
(re: their anti-vegetarian and anti-vegan sentiments), we do a
disservice to the entire movement.

I was a contributor to PCRM during most of the past 15 years (across
different addresses in NJ, AZ, FL, and KS). I enjoy contributing to
groups that champion causes that are important to me, but I will have
to think long and hard about whether giving money to you folks makes
any sense. So for right now, my membership can lapse. I mean, for
cryin' out loud: WHEN IN THE LAST 15 YEARS HAS THERE BEEN AN ANTI-
VEGETARIAN GLOBALLY-DISTRIBUTED STORY SO IN NEED OF CORRECTION???
Answer: to the best of my knowledge, there hasn't been. Ever.

You totally dropped the ball on this one. And not answering my emails
only adds insult to injury.

Seeya,
Jim Ward-Nichols (former PCRM member)

(sent to the ksullivan address based on out-of-office reflector from
the 9/29 mail - sent ksullivan the 9/29 mail on 9/29 later on that
day)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jlwn111@hotmail.com
To: jeannem@pcrm.org; pcrm@pcrm.org; research@pcrm.org
CC: carriee@petaf.org
Subject: RE: Please Address the SMALL BRAINS stories!!!
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 16:32:25 +0000

To whom it may concern at PCRM -

I've been a contributor to both PETA and PCRM for many years and was
concerned that neither of you properly addressed the "small brains"
story (a story so chocked full of inaccuracies and misinformation that
it was hard to understand why it got the coverage it got - other than
the fact that the mainstream media still likes to poke fun at animal
rights and vegetarianism/veganism and will do so any time it gets the
chance).

Can you please tell me how PCRM addressed this?

Thanks,
Jim Ward-Nichols
(Vegetarian Since 1985 and Vegan Since 1993)

p.s. --- I have copied the PCRM media rep on this but haven't heard
back anything yet. I expected to hear something in the mainstream
media that would speak out against the outrageous LIES that dove-
tailed off the original story. But, alas, we appeared silent on this.
I at least expected to find a press release that addressed it. Quite
frankly, the time to speak out against this ridiculous story has come
and gone. Perhaps this can be a lesson? Perhaps next time something
like this happens we can be more vocal? I sure hope so...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: Please Address the SMALL BRAINS stories!!!
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 11:12:15 -0400
From: CarrieE@petaf.org
To: jlwn111@hotmail.com

Dear Mr. Ward-Nichols,

Thank you for your reply and request.

I have attached a draft of the letter, which was for a paper in India
(I do not have the paper's information available). As I mentioned
previously, we did the majority of correspondence with PCRM as they
had more in-depth information on why these studies are misleading.

Again, thank you for your reply.

Best regards,

Carrie Edwards
PETA Foundation

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: J. Ward-Nichols [mailto:jlwn111@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 3:14 PM
To: Carrie Edwards
Subject: RE: Please Address the SMALL BRAINS stories!!!

Can I get a copy of that letter or can you tell me where to find it?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Please Address the SMALL BRAINS stories!!!
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 13:32:29 -0400
From: CarrieE@petaf.org
To: jlwn111@hotmail.com

Dear Mr. Ward-Nichols,

Thank you for your reply.

We wrote at least one letter to the editor in response to one such
article. However, primarily our staff corresponded with PCRM on this
issue to get letters out when we saw these articles in US newspapers,
etc.

Thank you again for your reply and interest in this issue.

Best regards,
Carrie Edwards
PETA Foundation

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: J. Ward-Nichols [mailto:jlwn111@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 7:25 PM
To: Carrie Edwards
Cc: jeannem@pcrm.org
Subject: RE: Please Address the SMALL BRAINS stories!!!

The content you've added beyond the first sentence falls into the
"preaching to the choir" category. I've been a vegetarian since 1985
and a vegan since 1993 and am quite healthy. I do my best to combat
disinformation in my local circle. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.
I'm asking you (PETA and PCRM) what you (PETA and PCRM) are going to
do - on a much broader scale - to combat all the bullsh*t that's been
floating around for the past 2 weeks (re: vegetarians and vegan have
smaller brains). If you've already addressed this in the media please
tell me where to find our response.

Thanks!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: Please Address the SMALL BRAINS stories!!!
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2008 12:47:48 -0400
From: CarrieE@petaf.org
To: jlwn111@hotmail.com

Dear Mr. Ward-Nichols,

Thank you for contacting us with your concerns regarding the below
stories. They have been passed on to the appropriate staff here for
review.

As you know, a vegetarian diet with a healthy variety of food will
more than adequately meet our nutritional needs. The American Dietetic
Association and Dietitians of Canada’s joint position paper on
vegetarianism asserts, “Vegetarian diets offer a number of nutritional
benefits, including lower levels of saturated fat, cholesterol, and
animal protein as well as higher levels of carbohydrates, fiber,
magnesium, potassium, folate, and antioxidants such as vitamins C and
E and phytochemicals.”

Dr. William Castelli, the director of the Framingham Heart Study, the
longest-running epidemiological study in medical history, reports:
“[V]egetarians have the best diet. They have the lowest rates of
coronary disease of any group in the country. … [T]hey have a fraction
of our heart attack rate, and they have only 40 percent of our cancer
rate. They outlive us. On the average, they outlive other men by about
six years now.”

Below are some links that will provide you with additional information
about the health benefits of vegetarian and vegan diets:

http://www.PETA.org/about/faq-veg.asp
http://www.pcrm.org/health/veginfo/index.html
http://www.vrg.org/nutrition/b12.htm
http://www.GoVeg.com/veganism.asp
http://www.DumpDairy.com/more.html

You can help by writing letters to the editors of local newspapers and
magazines, explaining the many benefits of vegetarianism. For letter-
writing tips, please go to http://www.PETA.org/actioncent.....guide.asp.
For information to include in your letters, please visit
http://www.goveg.com/optimal_vegan_nutrition.asp

Thank you again for your email and all you do for animals!

Best regards,
Carrie Edwards
PETA Foundation

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----Original Message-----
From: J. Ward-Nichols [mailto:jlwn111@hotmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:00 AM
To: media info; jeannem@pcrm.org
Subject: Please Address the SMALL BRAINS stories!!!

It might be a little bit late and we might want to simply let this
nonsense fade into the background but REALLY - this has got to be one
of the faultiest conclusions the SHILLS for Beef and Dairy have ever
reached. Ever. It's laughable, but millions actually believe it to be
true.

What is/was the response? I looked at both sites media centers and
recent press releases but didn't see anything. Maybe I missed it?
Please advise.

Thank you for your time.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 05:36:30 -0700
Subject: Google Alert - vegetarian b12
From: googlealerts-noreply@google.com
To: jlwn111@hotmail.com

Google News Alert for: vegetarian b12

Being Vegetarian Shrinks Brain
NewsMax.com - West Palm Beach,FL,USA
Vegetarians are more likely than meat-eaters to be deficient in
vitamin B12, which is mainly found in meats, and a B12 deficiency is
known to cause anemia ...
See all stories on this topic

How to Make Sure Your Vegetarian Child Eats Right
RedOrbit - Dallas,TX,USA
... some breakfast cereals and supplements can help provide calcium
and the important vitamins B-12 and D. Teenagers seriously considering
a vegetarian ...
See all stories on this topic

Meat-Free Diets May Be Bad For The Brain
Food Product Design - Northbrook,IL,USA
Those on a vegan or vegetarian diet are six times more likely to have
brain shrinkage due to lack of vitamin B 12 . "This study suggests
that simply ...
See all stories on this topic

Rev. 11D Meow!
2008-10-04 15:38:27 EST
eAT mORE cOWS!

eSPECIALLY vEGAN cOWS!!!




Rev Dr Feit C Taj
2008-10-04 15:49:49 EST
c*s@yahoo.com wrote in
news:2a53e3de-a973-4fb9-a3a6-e2c9a8361344@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:

> FYI...
>
> (start at the bottom and work up)
>
That's exactly how I ignored it.

--
http://feitctaj.blogspot.com

Just wait until the dead babies start marching. Then you'll be eating your
words.

Zapanaz
2008-10-04 16:01:54 EST
c*s@yahoo.com hunched over a computer, typing
feverishly;
Thunder crashed, claireredfieldsurvives@yahoo.com laughed madly, then
wrote:

>(start at the bottom and work up)

no.


--
Zapanaz
International Satanic Conspiracy
Customer Support Specialist
http://joecosby.com/
Doktor Dark wrote:

> On either side of the anus of the dox is situated an anal gland, which
> secretes a lubricant that better enables the dox to expel the contents
> of the rectum. These glands are subject to being clogged, and in them
> accumulates a fetid mass.

That is the very worst wedding toast I have ever heard.

- HellPope Huey

:: Currently listening to Solitude, 1982, by Ennio Morricone, from "The Thing"

Rudy Canoza
2008-10-04 16:07:58 EST
c*s@yahoo.com wrote:
> FYI...
>
> (start at the bottom and work up)

Let's delete most of the effete outrage and get to the real issue.


> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: J. Ward-Nichols [mailto:jlwn111@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:00 AM
> To: media info; jeannem@pcrm.org
> Subject: Please Address the SMALL BRAINS stories!!!
>
> It might be a little bit late and we might want to simply let this
> nonsense fade into the background but REALLY - this has got to be one
> of the faultiest conclusions the SHILLS for Beef and Dairy have ever
> reached. Ever. It's laughable, but millions actually believe it to be
> true.

"J. Ward-Nichols" undoubtedly is not competent to say if the conclusions
are "faulty" or not. She just doesn't like the conclusions.

Zapanaz
2008-10-04 16:33:01 EST
Rudy Canoza hunched over a computer, typing feverishly;
Thunder crashed, Rudy Canoza laughed madly, then wrote:

>*s@yahoo.com wrote:
>> FYI...
>>
>> (start at the bottom and work up)
>
>Let's delete most of the effete outrage and get to the real issue.
>
>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: J. Ward-Nichols [mailto:jlwn111@hotmail.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:00 AM
>> To: media info; jeannem@pcrm.org
>> Subject: Please Address the SMALL BRAINS stories!!!
>>
>> It might be a little bit late and we might want to simply let this
>> nonsense fade into the background but REALLY - this has got to be one
>> of the faultiest conclusions the SHILLS for Beef and Dairy have ever
>> reached. Ever. It's laughable, but millions actually believe it to be
>> true.
>
>"J. Ward-Nichols" undoubtedly is not competent to say if the conclusions
>are "faulty" or not. She just doesn't like the conclusions.

Well I don't know how you could think Ward-Nichols is anything but
competent and level-headed. Here is a good example, his page
describing how the fact that he sees the numbers "1 - 1 - 1"
everywhere he goes shoes that he is a prophet or something:

http://www.the111experience.org/index_01112008.html

(thus the "111" in his email address, it's a magical ward I guess)

I can't make heads or tails of the page, so either he is a nut, or I
am an idiot.

I'll let you read the page and decide yourself whether you and I are
both idiots, or he is a nut.



If you start at

1965 - The Beginning

and read down to 1980, you can see that no fewer than FOUR TIMES, over
a fifteen year interval, patterns of three number "1" appeared in his
life. FOUR TIMES, in just fifteen years! HOW COULD THAT POSSIBLY BE,
IF NOT BY MAGIC?

--
Zapanaz
International Satanic Conspiracy
Customer Support Specialist
http://joecosby.com/
"MY LIFE IS NOT A CRITIQUE OF YOUR LIFE" - NENSLO

:: Currently listening to Shine On You Crazy Diamond (Parts VI - VII - VIII - IX), 1975, by Pink Floyd, from "Wish You Were Here (Remaster)"

Dutch
2008-10-04 17:53:43 EST

<*s@yahoo.com> wrote
FYI...

(start at the bottom and work up)

From: jlwn111@hotmail.com
To: jlwn111@gmail.com
Subject: PCRM & PETA Let Us Down...

PCRM is an oxymoron. Responsible medicine necessarily implies that the best
interests of the patient are first and foremost. PCRM, as a front for PeTA
and animal rights is ideologically incapable of placing the best interests
of patients first.


Pearl
2008-10-05 07:29:54 EST
"Dutch" <no@email.com> wrote in message news:mARFk.15003$I44.14552@newsfe03.iad...
>
> <claireredfieldsurvives@yahoo.com> wrote
> FYI...
>
> (start at the bottom and work up)
>
> From: jlwn111@hotmail.com
> To: jlwn111@gmail.com
> Subject: PCRM & PETA Let Us Down...
>
> PCRM is an oxymoron. Responsible medicine necessarily implies that the best
> interests of the patient are first and foremost. PCRM, as a front for PeTA
> and animal rights is ideologically incapable of placing the best interests
> of patients first.

'Founded in 1985, the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine
is a nonprofit health organization that promotes preventive medicine,
especially good nutrition. PCRM also conducts clinical research studies,
opposes unethical human experimentation, and promotes alternatives to
animal research.
..'
http://www.pcrm.org/news/release080708.html

'Since it is impossible to tell which animal species, if any, will correctly
predict human responses, there is the constant risk of misleading
predictions. Far more could be achieved, and without harm to animals,
by concentrating methods of direct relevance to people. These methods
include human population studies (known scientifically as epidemiology),
clinical investigation of people who are ill or who have died, observations
of healthy volunteers, and test-tube experiments with human tissues.
Such tissues can be obtained from therapeutic surgery, biopsies and
postmortem specimens.
...'
http://aerzte-gegen-tierversuche.de/content/en/resources/case_against_animal_experiments.php4SetSection=100&SetSubSection=100&Lang=e
n&qstring=.



D*@.
2008-10-05 13:49:43 EST
On Sat, 04 Oct 2008 Goo was actually honest about something for
a strange change:

>*s@yahoo.com wrote:
>> FYI...
>>
>> (start at the bottom and work up)
>
>Let's delete most of the effete outrage and get to the real issue.
>
>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: J. Ward-Nichols [mailto:jlwn111@hotmail.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:00 AM
>> To: media info; jeannem@pcrm.org
>> Subject: Please Address the SMALL BRAINS stories!!!
>>
>> It might be a little bit late and we might want to simply let this
>> nonsense fade into the background but REALLY - this has got to be one
>> of the faultiest conclusions the SHILLS for Beef and Dairy have ever
>> reached. Ever. It's laughable, but millions actually believe it to be
>> true.
>
>"J. Ward-Nichols" undoubtedly is not competent to say if the conclusions
>are "faulty" or not. She just doesn't like the conclusions.

That's an unusually high percentage of truth coming from
you Goo. Did it hurt?

D*@.
2008-10-05 13:50:00 EST
On Sat, 04 Oct 2008 13:33:01 -0700, Zapanaz <http://joecosby.com/code/mail.pl> wrote:

>The Goober hunched over a computer, typing feverishly;
>Thunder crashed, Goobernicus Gonad laughed madly,
>then wrote:
>
>>claireredfieldsurvives@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> FYI...
>>>
>>> (start at the bottom and work up)
>>
>>Let's delete most of the effete outrage and get to the real issue.
>>
>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: J. Ward-Nichols [mailto:jlwn111@hotmail.com]
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:00 AM
>>> To: media info; jeannem@pcrm.org
>>> Subject: Please Address the SMALL BRAINS stories!!!
>>>
>>> It might be a little bit late and we might want to simply let this
>>> nonsense fade into the background but REALLY - this has got to be one
>>> of the faultiest conclusions the SHILLS for Beef and Dairy have ever
>>> reached. Ever. It's laughable, but millions actually believe it to be
>>> true.
>>
>>"J. Ward-Nichols" undoubtedly is not competent to say if the conclusions
>>are "faulty" or not. She just doesn't like the conclusions.
>
>Well I don't know how you could think Ward-Nichols is anything but
>competent and level-headed. Here is a good example, his page
>describing how the fact that he sees the numbers "1 - 1 - 1"
>everywhere he goes shoes that he is a prophet or something:
>
>http://www.the111experience.org/index_01112008.html
>
>(thus the "111" in his email address, it's a magical ward I guess)
>
>I can't make heads or tails of the page, so either he is a nut, or I
>am an idiot.
>
>I'll let you read the page and decide yourself whether you and I are
>both idiots, or he is a nut.

Don't be so quick to jump in bed with Goo, even if he is
right about something and even more rarely honest about
something for a change. You might want to consider some
Goobal idiocies before you join the Goo Crew:

"it is not "better" that the animal exist, no matter
its quality of live" - Goo

"It is not "better" in any moral way, and not in *any* way
at all to the animal itself, that the animal exists." - Goo

"Life is not a gain because there *was* no person to
experience the gain" - Goo

"coming into existence didn't make me better off than
I was" - Goo

"When the entity moves from "pre-existence" into the
existence we know, we don't know if that move improves
its welfare" - Goo

"Animals do not have a sense of insult." - Goo

"Dogs NEVER anticipate, nor do cats, or cattle, or
any other animal you've ever encountered." - Goo

"Animals do not experience frustration." - Goo

"No zygotes, animals, people, or any other living thing
benefits from coming into existence. No farm animals
benefit from farming." - Goo

"Being born is not a benefit in any way. It can't be." - Goo

"Animals cannot be or feel disappointed." - Goo

"Non human animals experience neither pride nor
disappointment. They don't have the mental ability
to feel either." - Goo

"Darwin, a sentimental person, was projecting. He
saw something that wasn't there. He was, in a way,
hallucinating." - Goo

"Anticipation requires language." - Goo

"No animals anticipate." - Goo

"Dogs, cats, cattle, almost all animals "lower" than
the great apes have no sense of self." - Goo

"They are not aware that they can see. " - Goo

"They are *not* aware that they can smell." - Goo
_________________________________________________________
Ron asked:
>So you are telling us that the cow was purposely bred into existance
>and fed and watered for 12 years only to be sold at the lowest price in
>the beef industry......and all that done with the singular purpose of
>supplying the pet food industry?

Goo replied:
Yes.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
_________________________________________________________
Ron pointed out:
>You also said cows are raised for 12 years specifically to become
>PET FOOD.

Goo replied:
Some are.
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
_________________________________________________________
>>> The main thing to consider in both of course is the life
>>> which is experienced
>>
>> No.
>
> LOL! So what do you think is, Goo?

Not "the life which is experienced"
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
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