Vegetarian Discussion: DID VEDIC HINDUS REALLY EAT COW? (No)

DID VEDIC HINDUS REALLY EAT COW? (No)
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And/or Www.mantra.com/jai Dr. Jai Maharaj
2008-01-21 01:13:15 EST
Did Vedic Hindus really eat cow?

By Sandhya Jain
The Deccan Herald
December 20, 2001

Under the pretext of disseminating true knowledge about the
past to young, impressionable school children, a perverse
assault has been launched upon the religious sensitivities
of the Hindu community. Marxist historians allege that
ancient Hindus ate beef, that this is recorded in their
sacred scriptures, and that this should be taught to school
children. The Hindu prohibition on cow slaughter, they say,
is a more recent development and Hindus are shying away
from this truth because it is intimately linked with their
sense of identity.

A Marxist specialist on ancient India, ignorant in both
Vedic and Panini 's Sanskrit, claims that the Shatapatha
Brahmana and Vashistth Dharmasootr clearly state that
guests were honored by serving beef. She also cites
archaeological evidence as reported by H. D. Sankalia and
B. B. Lal. While the lady thinks her evidence is
irrefutable, I have decided to pick up the gauntlet.

To begin with, the Shatapath Brahmana is Yajnavalkya's
commentary on the Yajur Veda, and not a revealed text. As
for the Vasistha Dharmasutra, the legendary Sanskritist,
late P. V. Kane, said, "beyond the name Vasistha there is
hardly anything special in the dharmasutra to connect it
with the Rgveda." Kane also added, "grave doubts have been
entertained about the authenticity of the whole of the text
of the Vas.Dh.S. as the mss. (manuscripts) contain varying
numbers of chapters from 6 to 30, and as the text is
hopelessly corrupt in several places. many verses.bear the
impress of a comparatively late age." Kane tentatively
places this text between 300-100 BCE, that is, long after
the end of the Vedic age.

According to archaeologists, the early Vedic age
tentatively falls between the fourteen century BCE to the
first millennium BCE. The later Vedic period lies between
1000 BCE to 600-700 BCE. But if we go by astronomical
dating of some of the hymns, we get a period of 7000 BCE
for a portion of the Vedas.

The honest question, however, is whether the Vedas offer
evidence about cow slaughter and beef-eating, and if not,
how the controversy arose in the first place. A few
clarifications are in order before we proceed. The word
'cow' (gau), for instance, is used throughout the Vedas in
diverse senses, and, depending on the context of the verse,
could mean the animal cow, waters, sun-rays, learned
persons, Vedic verses, or Prithvi (earth as Divine Mother).

Then, Vedic society was heterogeneous, pluralistic, and
non-vegetarian. In theory, it is possible that the cow was
killed and eaten. The fact, however, is that throughout the
Vedas the cow is called a non-killable animal, or "aghnya."
According to "An Encyclopaedic Dictionary of Sanskrit on
Historical Principles" (Vol. I, Deccan College, Poona),
"aghnya" means "not to be killed or violated" and is used
for cows and for waters in the presence of which oaths were
taken.

The Rig and Sama Veda call the cow "aghnya" and "Aditi",
ie. not to be murdered (Rig 1-64-27; 5-83-8; 7-68-9; 1-164-
40; 8-69-2; 9-1-9; 9-93-3; 10-6-11; 10-87-16). They extol
the cow as un-killable, un-murderable, whose milk purifies
the mind and keeps it free from sin. Verse 10-87-16
prescribes severe punishment for the person who kills a
cow. The Atharva Veda recommends beheading (8-3-16) for
such a crime; the Rig Veda advocates expulsion from the
kingdom (8-101-15).

Hence, it seems unlikely that the cow would be slaughtered
to entertain guests, as claimed by Marxist historians. But
before coming to any conclusion, the archaeological
evidence should also be examined. Archaeologists have
excavated bones of cattle in huge quantity, "cattle" is a
collective noun which includes the cow, bull, buffalo,
nilgai and all other bovine animals. Nowhere in the world
can experts differentiate between the bones of cows and
other cattle recovered from excavations.

There are good reasons for this difficulty. Most of the
bones found are not whole carcasses, but large pieces of
limbs. Experts feel that these could be the remains of
animals that died naturally and were skinned for their hide
and bones. Ancient man used bones to make knives and other
tools; the splintered bones found could be part of the
tool-making exercise. In all honesty, therefore, cattle
bone finds do not prove cow slaughter or the eating of cow
meat, especially when all literary evidence points in the
opposite direction.

There has been talk about cut-marks on the bones. But apart
from tool-making, even if a tanner skins dead cattle for
the hide, he will inflict cut marks on the carcass.
Scientifically, it is not possible to say if the marks on
the bones are ante-mortem or post-mortem. This can be
determined only where the body is intact (animal or human),
by analyzing blood vessels, tissue, rigor mortis and other
factors.

Fortunately, there is now clinching evidence why the
Marxist claim on cow-flesh rests on false premises. As
already stated, the allegation rests mainly on literary
sources and their interpretation, and we are in a position
to trace the source of the mischief -- the Vachaspatyam of
Pandit Taranath and his British mentors.

Pandit Taranath, a professor of grammar at the Calcutta
Sanskrit College, compiled a six-volume Sanskrit-to-
Sanskrit dictionary, which is used by scholars to this day.
The Vachaspatyam is a valuable guide for scholars because
there are certain words in the samhita (mantra) section of
the Vedas that are not found later in the Puranas.

What most Sanskrit scholars have failed to notice is that
Taranath artfully corrupted the meanings of a few crucial
words of the Vedic samhita to endorse the meaning given by
Max Muller in his translation of the Vedas. Swami
Prakashanand Saraswati has exposed this beautifully in "The
True History and the Religion of India, A Concise
Encyclopedia of Authentic Hinduism" (Motilal Banarsidass).

The British idea was that Max Muller would translate the
Rig Veda "in such a scornful manner that Hindus themselves
should begin to reproach their own religion of the Vedas,"
while a Hindu pandit would "compile an elaborate Sanskrit
dictionary that should exhibit disgraceful meanings of
certain words of the Vedic mantras." As Hindus would not
question a dictionary by a Hindu pandit, the British would
be able to claim that whatever Max Muller wrote about the
Vedas was according to the dictionary of the Hindus.

Swami Prakashanand Saraswati focuses on two words -- goghn
and ashvamedh. "Goghn" means a guest who receives a cow as
gift. Panini created a special sutra to establish the rule
that goghn will only mean the receiver of a cow (and will
not be used in any other sense). But Taranath ignored
Panini's injunction and wrote that "goghn" means "the
killer of a cow." He similarly converted the ashvamedh
yagya from 'ritual worship of the horse' to the "killing of
the horse."

The Swami proves the British hand in this mischief through
the patronage given to Taranath by the Government of Bengal
in 1866, when Lt. Governor Sir Cecil Beadon sanctioned ten
thousand rupees for two hundred copies of his dictionary.
This was a king's ransom in those days, as even in the
1930s the headmaster of a vernacular primary school
received a salary of twenty rupees a month. Today, ten
thousand rupees is the equivalent of two million rupees.

When the basic premise upon which all modern translations
rest is thus knocked off its pedestal, what beef is left in
the theory that Vedic Hindus enjoyed the flesh of the cow?
I rest my case.

End of forwarded message from:
http://www.hvk.org/articles/1201/124.html

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/24fq83
http://www.mantra.com/jai
http://www.mantra.com/jyotish
Om Shanti

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Wanderer
2008-01-21 02:36:49 EST
Holy cow: Beef part of diet in Vedic India, says Prof

‘Rig Veda lists barren cow and the ox as fire god Agni’s favourite
snack. Manusmriti okays beef-eating’; humbug says VHP

EXPRESS NEWS SERVICE

NEW DELHI, AUGUST 8: THE Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) is fuming and is
planning a protest against a Delhi-based historian’s book which says
long before the advent of Islam, a typical Indian meal included beef.

The book, Holy Cow: Beef in Indian Dietary, will hit the stands soon,
but the author — Professor D.N. Jha, Department of History, Delhi
University — has his doubts if his book will see the light of day,
especially now after a local court in Hyderabad has reportedly banned
the book. Besides, the publisher, Matrix, has not yet informed Jha when
exactly will his book be released.

For the past two years, Jha has been conducting researches on the
dietary tradition of India and also on the history of the doctrine of
Ahimsa. And it was while working on this that a large chunk of his
research showed that beef was consumed in the pre-Islamic era. Jha then
decided to write a book.

Speaking to The Indian Express, Prof Jha said there was historical
evidence which showed a paradox in the treatment of cow. ‘‘For
instance,’’ he explained, ‘‘In our dharmashastras, there are two types
of sins — major and minor — and all of them say that killing a cow is a
minor sin. Moreover, some shastras also say that cleaning your teeth
with your finger (as opposed to a datun) is like killing a cow. If the
cow was so sacred, it wouldn’t be trivialised to this extent.’’

Referring to his book as a purely academic work, Jha said there wasn’t
even any goddess or temple representing the cow and since history states
something else, it needs to be kept in mind.

The book provides various instances of beef eating in ancient India. It
also provides instances of non-vegetarian diet and says that even
Emperor Ashoka had not included cow in the list of animals not to be
slaughtered, and there were supposed to be two peacocks and a deer
cooked in the royal kitchen everyday.

Quoting ancient texts, the professor said the Rig Veda lists fire god
Agni’s food as the ox and the barren cow. Also, the cow figures in
Manusmriti’s (200 BC-200 AD) list of animals whose flesh can be consumed.

Jha further mentions The Mahabharata, in which king Rantiveda achieved
unrivalled fame by distributing beef along with foodgrains to Brahmins
and that 2,000 cows were slaughtered in his kitchen everyday. Moreover,
Jha added, texts like Charakasamhita, Sushrutasamhita and
Ashtangahritaya referred to the use of beef in case of specific illnesses.

When contacted, VHP leader Acharya Giriraj Kishore[who is a
rabble-rouser involved in attacks against Indian Christians- Wanderer]
said he would wait till he had read the book to initiate action. He was
of the view that Prof Jha had probably not referred to the correct texts.

‘‘There have been many recent additions and he has probably seen those
as none of the original texts would have included the instances he is
citing. People don’t understand the vedic language and therefore make
their own interpretations which are usually false. These are just
Western influences, attempting at spreading the non-vegetarian
culture,’’ the VHP leader said.

http://www.indianexpress.com/india-news/ie20010809/top10.html

Harmony
2008-01-21 19:19:21 EST

<*t@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)> wrote in
message news:20080120DM8P9sMv4ulm542O5LUeIY8@FkJYT...
> Did Vedic Hindus really eat cow?
>
> By Sandhya Jain
> The Deccan Herald
> December 20, 2001
>
> Under the pretext of disseminating true knowledge about the
> past to young, impressionable school children, a perverse
> assault has been launched upon the religious sensitivities
> of the Hindu community. Marxist historians allege that
> ancient Hindus ate beef, that this is recorded in their
> sacred scriptures, and that this should be taught to school
> children.

there is little doubt that the hindu children would immensely benefit if
they learned about communism and to stay away from commies.



And/or Www.mantra.com/jai Dr. Jai Maharaj
2008-01-21 19:39:11 EST
In article <4795364a$0$4056$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net>,
"harmony" <aka@hotmail.com> posted:

> http://www.mantra.com/jyotish (Dr. Jai Maharaj) posted:
>
> > Did Vedic Hindus really eat cow?
> >
> > By Sandhya Jain
> > The Deccan Herald
> > December 20, 2001
> >
> > Under the pretext of disseminating true knowledge about the
> > past to young, impressionable school children, a perverse
> > assault has been launched upon the religious sensitivities
> > of the Hindu community. Marxist historians allege that
> > ancient Hindus ate beef, that this is recorded in their
> > sacred scriptures, and that this should be taught to school
> > children.
> > [...]

> there is little doubt that the hindu children would immensely benefit if
> they learned about communism and to stay away from commies.

Just look at Arindam -- he's "damaged goods" because communism touched him.

Jai Maharaj
http://tinyurl.com/24fq83
http://www.mantra.com/jai
http://www.mantra.com/jyotish
Om Shanti


T*@yahoo.com
2008-01-21 21:57:53 EST
On Jan 21, 2:36 am, Wanderer <n...@there.yet> wrote:
> Holy cow: Beef part of diet in Vedic India, says Prof
>
> 'Rig Veda lists barren cow and the ox as fire god Agni's favourite
> snack. Manusmriti okays beef-eating'; humbug says VHP

No. Manu does not advocate any meat eating. He clearly says meat
eating is for weak people with weak minds. Eating meat attracts sin.
What missionary morons wont tell you is that yajna sacrifice of
animals including cows is allowed by Manu and he also says not taking
the yajnaprasadam, is not correct either. Taking yajnaprasadam is
ordained.Refusal is wrong except for sanyasins. House holders have to.
Most importantly remember, yajnaprasadam is not for eating to fill the
stomach! It is not considered eating. You *cannot kill to fill your
stomach* That is sin. I will tell you more if you ask for details.
Dont listen to morons, christians and muslims


Gitarthi
2008-01-22 06:54:11 EST
On Jan 21, 12:36 pm, Wanderer <n...@there.yet> wrote:
> Holy cow: Beef part of diet in Vedic India, says Prof
>
> 'Rig Veda lists barren cow and the ox as fire god Agni's favourite
> snack. Manusmriti okays beef-eating'; humbug says VHP
>
> EXPRESS NEWS SERVICE
>
> NEW DELHI, AUGUST 8: THE Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) is fuming and is
> planning a protest against a Delhi-based historian's book which says
> long before the advent of Islam, a typical Indian meal included beef.
>
> The book, Holy Cow: Beef in Indian Dietary, will hit the stands soon,
> but the author -- Professor D.N. Jha, Department of History, Delhi
> University -- has his doubts if his book will see the light of day,
> especially now after a local court in Hyderabad has reportedly banned
> the book. Besides, the publisher, Matrix, has not yet informed Jha when
> exactly will his book be released.
>
> For the past two years, Jha has been conducting researches on the
> dietary tradition of India and also on the history of the doctrine of
> Ahimsa. And it was while working on this that a large chunk of his
> research showed that beef was consumed in the pre-Islamic era. Jha then
> decided to write a book.
>
> Speaking to The Indian Express, Prof Jha said there was historical
> evidence which showed a paradox in the treatment of cow. ''For
> instance,'' he explained, ''In our dharmashastras, there are two types
> of sins -- major and minor -- and all of them say that killing a cow is a
> minor sin. Moreover, some shastras also say that cleaning your teeth
> with your finger (as opposed to a datun) is like killing a cow. If the
> cow was so sacred, it wouldn't be trivialised to this extent.''
>
> Referring to his book as a purely academic work, Jha said there wasn't
> even any goddess or temple representing the cow and since history states
> something else, it needs to be kept in mind.
>
> The book provides various instances of beef eating in ancient India. It
> also provides instances of non-vegetarian diet and says that even
> Emperor Ashoka had not included cow in the list of animals not to be
> slaughtered, and there were supposed to be two peacocks and a deer
> cooked in the royal kitchen everyday.
>
> Quoting ancient texts, the professor said the Rig Veda lists fire god
> Agni's food as the ox and the barren cow. Also, the cow figures in
> Manusmriti's (200 BC-200 AD) list of animals whose flesh can be consumed.
>
> Jha further mentions The Mahabharata, in which king Rantiveda achieved
> unrivalled fame by distributing beef along with foodgrains to Brahmins
> and that 2,000 cows were slaughtered in his kitchen everyday. Moreover,
> Jha added, texts like Charakasamhita, Sushrutasamhita and
> Ashtangahritaya referred to the use of beef in case of specific illnesses.
>
> When contacted, VHP leader Acharya Giriraj Kishore[who is a
> rabble-rouser involved in attacks against Indian Christians- Wanderer]
> said he would wait till he had read the book to initiate action. He was
> of the view that Prof Jha had probably not referred to the correct texts.
>
> ''There have been many recent additions and he has probably seen those
> as none of the original texts would have included the instances he is
> citing. People don't understand the vedic language and therefore make
> their own interpretations which are usually false. These are just
> Western influences, attempting at spreading the non-vegetarian
> culture,'' the VHP leader said.
>
> http://www.indianexpress.com/india-news/ie20010809/top10.html

No. Manu did not approve eating Cow. Even the Old Testament, which is
revered by Jews, Christians and the Muslims, asks one not to eat the
meat of the animals, whose milk they take. It says "Do not seethe the
kid in mother's milk". In fact in "Genesis", the Lord tells people to
take seed in place of meat. So God suggests that all of us should be
vegetarians and take vegetable proteins. Only one exception is made in
Hinduism for its use, somewhat more like a medicine in case of
Pregnant woman, in the Brihadaranyaka upanishad. This is also because
it is believed in some quarters that the goat's meat is not good for
women.

Wanderer
2008-01-22 10:07:00 EST
gitarthi <skbhattacharjya@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Jan 21, 12:36 pm, Wanderer <n...@there.yet> wrote:
>> Holy cow: Beef part of diet in Vedic India, says Prof
>>
>> 'Rig Veda lists barren cow and the ox as fire god Agni's favourite
>> snack. Manusmriti okays beef-eating'; humbug says VHP
>>
>> EXPRESS NEWS SERVICE
>>
>> NEW DELHI, AUGUST 8: THE Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) is fuming and is
>> planning a protest against a Delhi-based historian's book which says
>> long before the advent of Islam, a typical Indian meal included beef.
>>
>> The book, Holy Cow: Beef in Indian Dietary, will hit the stands soon,
>> but the author -- Professor D.N. Jha, Department of History, Delhi
>> University -- has his doubts if his book will see the light of day,
>> especially now after a local court in Hyderabad has reportedly banned
>> the book. Besides, the publisher, Matrix, has not yet informed Jha when
>> exactly will his book be released.
>>
>> [.........]
>
> No. Manu did not approve eating Cow. Even the Old Testament, which is
> revered by Jews, Christians and the Muslims, asks one not to eat the
> meat of the animals, whose milk they take. It says "Do not seethe the
> kid in mother's milk". In fact in "Genesis", the Lord tells people to
> take seed in place of meat. So God suggests that all of us should be
> vegetarians and take vegetable proteins. Only one exception is made in
> Hinduism for its use, somewhat more like a medicine in case of
> Pregnant woman, in the Brihadaranyaka upanishad. This is also because
> it is believed in some quarters that the goat's meat is not good for
> women.

You've got to understand that _all_ religious texts, from the Vedas to
the Torah to the Bible to the Koran etc., were written by human beings
with a view to regulate society to some end or other. None of these
texts were "revealed" regardless of what their authors or people say. So
claiming divine sanction or prohibition of this or that is pure
unadulterated rubbish. If God wants to talk to us, does "He" need to use
one person out of billions from hundreds or thousands of years ago?
Isn't God supposed to be omnipresent, and therefore capable of
communication with each of us personally, on a daily or hourly basis if
need be? That's a rhetorical question, no need to answer! Human weakness
created religion, and human weakness sustains it.

Harmony
2008-01-22 13:40:47 EST

<*t@mantra.com and/or www.mantra.com/jai (Dr. Jai Maharaj)> wrote in
message news:20080121Q43j3ZFF62g87P2d136kKe2@H01c6...
> In article <4795364a$0$4056$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net>,
> "harmony" <aka@hotmail.com> posted:
>
>> http://www.mantra.com/jyotish (Dr. Jai Maharaj) posted:
>>
>> > Did Vedic Hindus really eat cow?
>> >
>> > By Sandhya Jain
>> > The Deccan Herald
>> > December 20, 2001
>> >
>> > Under the pretext of disseminating true knowledge about the
>> > past to young, impressionable school children, a perverse
>> > assault has been launched upon the religious sensitivities
>> > of the Hindu community. Marxist historians allege that
>> > ancient Hindus ate beef, that this is recorded in their
>> > sacred scriptures, and that this should be taught to school
>> > children.
>> > [...]
>
>> there is little doubt that the hindu children would immensely benefit if
>> they learned about communism and to stay away from commies.
>
> Just look at Arindam -- he's "damaged goods" because communism touched
> him.
>

there are many commies who pretend to be hindu scholars and declare that
hinduism does not need defense because it is "universal". praful bidwai is
one from such specie. not surprisingly, they collude with missionaries and
mullas, and have a huge problems with the hindus whom they deride every
which way they can think of. they think they have a smart strategy but
little do they realize the hindus can see thr' them quite easy and their
bluff is called the same minute it hits the print. poor commies; they have
no credibility with their own families.


> Jai Maharaj
> http://tinyurl.com/24fq83
> http://www.mantra.com/jai
> http://www.mantra.com/jyotish
> Om Shanti
>



T*@yahoo.com
2008-01-22 20:00:34 EST
On Jan 22, 10:07 am, Wanderer <n...@there.yet> wrote:
> gitarthi <skbhattachar...@gmail.com> wrote:

> You've got to understand that _all_ religious texts, from the Vedas to
> the Torah to the Bible to the Koran etc., were written by human beings
> with a view to regulate society to some end or other. None of these
> texts were "revealed" regardless of what their authors or people say.

Vedas are revealed. They are over so many centuries and by so many
sages, it is astonishing they have a common theme and do not disagree
with each other. Likewise, smrithis such as puranas, ithihasas do not
differ from veda and each other either. All this is over thousands of
years. Saying this is not from God when there is such concordance is
not rational. Moreover if there is God, He has to guide people. God
came personally and guided humans. You have to study the Hindu texts
to see the truth and its splendour

.


Wanderer
2008-01-23 04:56:23 EST
t*a@yahoo.com wrote:

> On Jan 22, 10:07 am, Wanderer <n...@there.yet> wrote:
>> gitarthi <skbhattachar...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You've got to understand that _all_ religious texts, from the Vedas to
>> the Torah to the Bible to the Koran etc., were written by human beings
>> with a view to regulate society to some end or other. None of these
>> texts were "revealed" regardless of what their authors or people say.
>
> Vedas are revealed. They are over so many centuries and by so many
> sages, it is astonishing they have a common theme and do not disagree
> with each other. Likewise, smrithis such as puranas, ithihasas do not
> differ from veda and each other either. All this is over thousands of
> years. Saying this is not from God when there is such concordance is
> not rational. Moreover if there is God, He has to guide people. God
> came personally and guided humans. You have to study the Hindu texts
> to see the truth and its splendour

Bullshit! Nothing is "revealed" in _any_ religion. And there are plenty
of conflicts in Hindu texts. You, sir, are a blind fool.
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