Vegetarian Discussion: Destruction Of Rainforest Accelerates Despite Outcry

Destruction Of Rainforest Accelerates Despite Outcry
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Pearl
2008-01-19 07:10:53 EST
Destruction of rainforest accelerates despite outcry

By Daniel Howden, Deputy Foreign Editor
Published: 18 January 2008

The destruction of the Amazon rainforest has surged in the past four
months, raising the prospect of 2008 being a disastrous year for the
world's most important eco-system, a senior Brazilian government
scientist has warned.

Dr Carlos Nobre, a scientist with a government agency that monitors the
Amazon said thousands of square miles of rainforest had been destroyed
since October, after four years in which deforestation rates had begun
to slow.

"I think the past four months is a big concern for the government and
now they are sending people to do more law enforcement," Dr Nobre,
told a seminar in Washington yesterday. "But I can tell you that it
[deforestation] is going to be much higher than 2007."

The claims from the head of Brazil's National Institute for Space
Research appear to undermine the government's record on environmental
protection and come in the same week as a major report was released
detailing the growth of cattle ranching in the Amazon.

Dr Nobre said 2,300 sq miles of forest had been lost in the past four
months. That compares with an estimated 3,700 sq miles in the 12 months
that ended on 31 July, which Brazilian officials hailed as the lowest
deforestation rate since the 1970s.

Those figures had already been hotly disputed by conservationists who
point to increasing pressure from sugar cane plantations to feed the
ethanol boom, illegal cattle ranching for beef exports, soybean
production and illegal logging operations. "All those drivers of change
are there," said Dr Nobre. "The three years of reduced deforestation...
did not bring by themselves a cure for illegal deforestation."

Roberto Smeraldi, from Friends of the Earth Brazil, said the surge was
part of the same cycle of destruction that has seen so much of the
forest cleared in the past. "We had a real overdose of deforestation
between 2002 and 2005, which led to abundant availability of cleared
land," he said. "Now this land has been occupied, the process heats up
again."

Friends of the Earth released a report this week which revealed that 74
million cattle are reared in the Amazon basin where they outnumber
people by a ratio of more than three to one.

Deforestation has emerged as the second leading source of the carbon
emissions driving climate change. Brazil is now among the four main
carbon polluters in the world and deforestation accounts for more than
three quarters of its emissions.

Despite its acknowledged role as one the largest carbon sinks on the
planet, its unrivalled biodiversity and the fact it stores half the
world's fresh water, one fifth of the Amazon basin has been destroyed in
recent years. There are serious concerns that the very survival of the
world's largest rainforest is threatened and, last month, the WWF
published research suggesting the Amazon could be wiped out by 2030.

A record drought two years ago reduced the Amazon to less than a trickle
in large sections and fires last year, caused in part by forest-clearing
for ranches, scattered tonnes of ash over Brazil, Bolivia and Paraguay.

Now in his second term Brazil's President, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva,
has made a series of commitments to safeguarding the Amazon and his
Environment Minister, Marina da Silva, has been feted for her stance on
conservation.

But there is serious criticism of the government's record: that it has
tended to favour industrial growth over environmental concerns.
President Lula's administration has signed off on a rash of questionable
infrastructure projects.

"Infrastructure is associated with aggressive and progressive land use
change," said Dr Nobre.

Amazon threats

Cattle Ranching

New industrial slaughterhouses in the Amazon basin, funded in part by
the World Bank, are fuelling the number of ranches, with cows now
outnumbering people by 10 to 1 in some of the northern states.

Soya farming

Surging demand from Europe encouraged agribusiness giants to set up
illegal ports on the Amazon river and facilitate massive forest
clearance to plant the bean. A fragile moratorium on Amazonian soya
has been declared after adverse publicity for the food giants.

Illegal logging

Always in the front line of deforestation, the loggers clear the way for
the cattle ranchers and farmers to follow in a vicious cycle that has
already consumed one fifth of the rainforest.

Biofuels

Rocketing oil prices mean the ethanol boom is here to stay. The
government insists that sugar cane plantations won't eat into the Amazon
but history shows that every agricultural boom in Brazil pushes
prospectors deeper into the Amazon.

http://environment.independent.co.uk/green_living/article3348001.ece




Rudy Canoza
2008-01-19 13:16:42 EST
pearl wrote:
> Destruction of rainforest accelerates despite outcry
>
> By Daniel Howden, Deputy Foreign Editor
> Published: 18 January 2008
>
> The destruction of the Amazon rainforest has surged in the past four
> months, raising the prospect of 2008 being a disastrous year for the
> world's most important eco-system, a senior Brazilian government
> scientist has warned.

And it wasn't to supply western developed nations with
"beefburgers".

Pearl
2008-01-19 14:16:40 EST
"Rudy Canoza" <pipes@thedismalscience.net> wrote in message news:13p4frfn16iuhae@corp.supernews.com...
> pearl wrote:
> > Destruction of rainforest accelerates despite outcry
> >
> > By Daniel Howden, Deputy Foreign Editor
> > Published: 18 January 2008
> >
> > The destruction of the Amazon rainforest has surged in the past four
> > months, raising the prospect of 2008 being a disastrous year for the
> > world's most important eco-system, a senior Brazilian government
> > scientist has warned.
>
> And it wasn't to supply western developed nations with
> "beefburgers".

Demand for Brazilian beef threatens rainforest
5 April 2004
Source: SciDev.Net

Brazil's growing success as an exporter of beef is responsible for much
of the recent rise in the rate of destruction of the Amazon rainforest,
according to new research.

A report to be released later this year by the Indonesia-based Center for
International Forestry Research (CIFOR) suggests a strong link between
the fivefold increase in Brazilian beef exports in the past six years and
increasingly rapid destruction of the Amazon rainforest.

In the past 12 years, the number of cattle in the Amazon has more than
doubled, from 26 million in 1990 to 57 million in 2002. The report shows
that the overwhelming majority of the new cattle are concentrated in
Brazil' s Amazon states of Mato Grosso, Par\ufffd, and Rond\ufffdnia, which
were also the states with the greatest deforestation in 2002.

"This research provides the first substantial data to support recent
speculation about the role international demand for Brazilian beef is
playing in Brazil's skyrocketing deforestation rate," says David
Kaimowitz, director-general of CIFOR and one of the report's authors.
"Cattle ranchers are making mincemeat out of Brazil's Amazon rainforests."

The report, Hamburger Connection Fuels Amazon Destruction, suggests
that the increase in worldwide demand for Brazilian beef may have been
fuelled by concerns regarding the threat of mad cow disease in other
cattle-producing nations. The recent devaluation of the Brazilian currency
and a decrease in the nation's incidence of foot-and-mouth disease may
also have played a part.

"Brazil's success in combating foot-and-mouth disease may be good news
for the cows, but it is bad news for the forest," Kaimowitz says.

The Brazilian government's Space Research Institute (INPE) is expected
shortly to release satellite images confirming that the Amazon forest is
rapidly disappearing. Last year, INPE's data showed a 40 per cent increase
in deforestation rates over 2002.

In March, Brazil's President Luiz In\ufffdcio 'Lula' da Silva announced a new
US$135-million action plan to prevent and control deforestation in the
Amazon.

The government's approach goes in the right direction, but unless urgent
action is taken, the Brazilian Amazon could lose an additional area the size
of Denmark over the next 18 months, warns Benoit Mertens, one of the
authors of the report and a CIFOR researcher.

"The international and domestic market forces currently promoting the
cattle-driven deforestation described in CIFOR's report are much
stronger than ever," he says. "Even with the most determined policy
response, it might be hard to decisively curb deforestation. To limit the
negative impact on Brazilian rainforests will require a massive effort."

Link to a summary of the report's main findings in English

http://www.scidev.net/News/index.cfm?fuseaction=readNews&itemid=1314&language=1




Rudy Canoza
2008-01-19 16:43:02 EST
pearl wrote:
> "Rudy Canoza" <pipes@thedismalscience.net> wrote in message news:13p4frfn16iuhae@corp.supernews.com...
>> pearl wrote:
>>> Destruction of rainforest accelerates despite outcry
>>>
>>> By Daniel Howden, Deputy Foreign Editor
>>> Published: 18 January 2008
>>>
>>> The destruction of the Amazon rainforest has surged in the past four
>>> months, raising the prospect of 2008 being a disastrous year for the
>>> world's most important eco-system, a senior Brazilian government
>>> scientist has warned.
>> And it wasn't to supply western developed nations with
>> "beefburgers".
>
> Demand for Brazilian beef threatens rainforest
> 5 April 2004
> Source: SciDev.Net
>
> Brazil's growing success as an exporter of beef

*NOT* from the Amazonian region. Brazil's beef exports
come from its south-west, e.g. Anastácio. See
http://www.mongabay.com/external/brazils_soaring_beef_exports.htm

Fresh beef from the Amazon basin may *NOT* be imported
into North America, and almost certainly not into
western Europe, because of hoof and mouth disease is
endemic there.

MEANWHILE, we see that you have thrown in the towel -
conceded defeat - on the issue of meat always and at
all times being a dietary staple for homo sapiens. You
had to, given that meat was a dietary staple of pre
homo sapiens hominids for some 2.25 million years.

Pearl
2008-01-19 18:37:41 EST
"Rudy Canoza" <pipes@thedismalscience.net> wrote in message news:13p4rubse1kj060@corp.supernews.com...
> pearl wrote:
> > "Rudy Canoza" <pipes@thedismalscience.net> wrote in message news:13p4frfn16iuhae@corp.supernews.com...
> >> pearl wrote:
> >>> Destruction of rainforest accelerates despite outcry
> >>>
> >>> By Daniel Howden, Deputy Foreign Editor
> >>> Published: 18 January 2008
> >>>
> >>> The destruction of the Amazon rainforest has surged in the past four
> >>> months, raising the prospect of 2008 being a disastrous year for the
> >>> world's most important eco-system, a senior Brazilian government
> >>> scientist has warned.
> >> And it wasn't to supply western developed nations with
> >> "beefburgers".
> >
> > Demand for Brazilian beef threatens rainforest
> > 5 April 2004
> > Source: SciDev.Net
> >
> > Brazil's growing success as an exporter of beef

'The report shows that the overwhelming majority of the new cattle are
concentrated in Brazil' s Amazon states of Mato Grosso, Par\ufffd, and
Rond\ufffdnia, which were also the states with the greatest deforestation in
2002.'
http://www.scidev.net/News/index.cfm?fuseaction=readNews&itemid=1314&language=1

> *NOT* from the Amazonian region. Brazil's beef exports
> come from its south-west, e.g. Anast\ufffdcio. See
> http://www.mongabay.com/external/brazils_soaring_beef_exports.htm

Anast\ufffdcio is in the Amazon state of Matto Grosso do Sul.

'In the Brazilian state of Mato Grosso, verdant green Amazon
Rainforest is broken up by broad tracts of pale green and tan
deforested land. In 2005, the government of Brazil said that
48 percent of Amazon deforestation that took place in 2003
and 2004 occurred in Mato Grosso. [ ]
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/images.php3?img_id=17358

>From your source:

"In 1971, heeding advice from the head of a meatpacking company,
Mr. Russo sold everything and bought a spread in the still-wild
Brazilian west. Mato Grosso do Sul, a hot, Montana-size province
with prime grazing land, was one of the last regions of Brazil to be
settled. The western part of the state includes some of the Pantanal,
the Americas' largest wetlands. The eastern part of the state, where
Mr. Russo built his ranch, is a type of savannah known locally as
cerrado... "

'Mongabay: Can you describe the sort of environment where you have
your ranch? Is it former rainforest, surrounded by rainforest, or cerrado
grassland habitat?

Carter: When I first came to the ranch is was 60 percent forest and 40
percent pasture. Most of the forest was secondary forest that had been
previously deforested but had regrown. The ranch is located in the
southeast Amazon forest -- the so-called transition forest in northeastern
Mato Grosso. Most of that region was forest but I've witnessed the vast
majority of that area cleared over the past 10 years. It's been very fast-
paced progress with the frontier rapidly moving across the Amazon.
Just a short time ago we had wilderness, but now we have Cargill at our
back door.

Mongabay: What about the laws that require ranchers to keep a portion
of their land forested? Has this not slowed deforestation?

Carter: Yes, since I arrived here there's been a forest reserve law in place.
Actually in 1998 they raised it from 50 percent of your land kept as forest
to 80 percent. That provision really backfired for the environmental
movement. The law was already contested at 50 percent. Raising it to 80
percent just created a mass hysteria and a state of civil disobedience
where landowners said "to heck with this" and just tore down everything.

The fact is, most people never respected the 50 percent requirement in
the first place. For the most part, they just classified rainforest as cerrado
so they could clear more land.
..'
http://news.mongabay.com/2007/0607-carter_interview.html

> Fresh beef from the Amazon basin may *NOT* be imported
> into North America, and almost certainly not into
> western Europe, because of hoof and mouth disease is
> endemic there.

14/01/2008
Europe is our biggest client ....
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N14427141.htm

> MEANWHILE, we see that you have thrown in the towel -
> conceded defeat - on the issue of meat always and at
> all times being a dietary staple for homo sapiens. You
> had to, given that meat was a dietary staple of pre
> homo sapiens hominids for some 2.25 million years.

I've made my case. You ignore evidence to the contrary and
continue to state your assertions. If you think that's 'winning'..



Rudy Canoza
2008-01-19 23:42:58 EST
pearl wrote:
> "Rudy Canoza" <pipes@thedismalscience.net> wrote in message news:13p4rubse1kj060@corp.supernews.com...
>> pearl wrote:
>>> "Rudy Canoza" <pipes@thedismalscience.net> wrote in message news:13p4frfn16iuhae@corp.supernews.com...
>>>> pearl wrote:
>>>>> Destruction of rainforest accelerates despite outcry
>>>>>
>>>>> By Daniel Howden, Deputy Foreign Editor
>>>>> Published: 18 January 2008
>>>>>
>>>>> The destruction of the Amazon rainforest has surged in the past four
>>>>> months, raising the prospect of 2008 being a disastrous year for the
>>>>> world's most important eco-system, a senior Brazilian government
>>>>> scientist has warned.
>>>> And it wasn't to supply western developed nations with
>>>> "beefburgers".
>>> Demand for Brazilian beef threatens rainforest
>>> 5 April 2004
>>> Source: SciDev.Net
>>>
>>> Brazil's growing success as an exporter of beef
>
> 'The report shows that the overwhelming majority of the new cattle are
> concentrated in Brazil' s Amazon states of Mato Grosso, Pará, and
> Rondônia, which were also the states with the greatest deforestation in
> 2002.'

But that's *NOT* where the exports originate.


>> Fresh beef from the Amazon basin may *NOT* be imported
>> into North America, and almost certainly not into
>> western Europe, because of hoof and mouth disease is
>> endemic there.
>
> 14/01/2008
> Europe is our biggest client ....
> http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N14427141.htm

*Nothing* in that says that the beef comes from the
Amazonian region of Brazil. In fact, it doesn't - it
comes from the south-west.


>
>> MEANWHILE, we see that you have thrown in the towel -
>> conceded defeat - on the issue of meat always and at
>> all times being a dietary staple for homo sapiens. You
>> had to, given that meat was a dietary staple of pre
>> homo sapiens hominids for some 2.25 million years.
>
> I've made my case.

You didn't. You *couldn't* - the facts are entirely
against you. Homo sapiens has always - always and at
all places - eaten meat, which is not surprising, as
the predecessor hominid species ate meat for over 2.25
million years.

Pearl
2008-01-20 07:26:33 EST
"Rudy Canoza" <pipes@thedismalscience.net> wrote in message news:13p5khoe070o069@corp.supernews.com...
> pearl wrote:
> > "Rudy Canoza" <pipes@thedismalscience.net> wrote in message news:13p4rubse1kj060@corp.supernews.com...
> >> pearl wrote:
> >>> "Rudy Canoza" <pipes@thedismalscience.net> wrote in message news:13p4frfn16iuhae@corp.supernews.com...
> >>>> pearl wrote:
> >>>>> Destruction of rainforest accelerates despite outcry
> >>>>>
> >>>>> By Daniel Howden, Deputy Foreign Editor
> >>>>> Published: 18 January 2008
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The destruction of the Amazon rainforest has surged in the past four
> >>>>> months, raising the prospect of 2008 being a disastrous year for the
> >>>>> world's most important eco-system, a senior Brazilian government
> >>>>> scientist has warned.
> >>>> And it wasn't to supply western developed nations with
> >>>> "beefburgers".
> >>> Demand for Brazilian beef threatens rainforest
> >>> 5 April 2004
> >>> Source: SciDev.Net
> >>>
> >>> Brazil's growing success as an exporter of beef
> >
> > 'The report shows that the overwhelming majority of the new cattle are
> > concentrated in Brazil' s Amazon states of Mato Grosso, Par\ufffd, and
> > Rond\ufffdnia, which were also the states with the greatest deforestation in
> > 2002.'
>
> But that's *NOT* where the exports originate.

Funny ball. In your last post, you were claiming they *DID*:
*
> *NOT* from the Amazonian region. Brazil's beef exports
> come from its south-west, e.g. Anast\ufffdcio. See
> http://www.mongabay.com/external/brazils_soaring_beef_exports.htm

Anast\ufffdcio is in the Amazon state of Matto Grosso do Sul.

'In the Brazilian state of Mato Grosso, verdant green Amazon
Rainforest is broken up by broad tracts of pale green and tan
deforested land. In 2005, the government of Brazil said that
48 percent of Amazon deforestation that took place in 2003
and 2004 occurred in Mato Grosso. [ ]
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/images.php3?img_id=17358

>From your source:

"In 1971, heeding advice from the head of a meatpacking company,
Mr. Russo sold everything and bought a spread in the still-wild
Brazilian west. Mato Grosso do Sul, a hot, Montana-size province
with prime grazing land, was one of the last regions of Brazil to be
settled. The western part of the state includes some of the Pantanal,
the Americas' largest wetlands. The eastern part of the state, where
Mr. Russo built his ranch, is a type of savannah known locally as
cerrado... "

'Mongabay: Can you describe the sort of environment where you have
your ranch? Is it former rainforest, surrounded by rainforest, or cerrado
grassland habitat?

Carter: When I first came to the ranch is was 60 percent forest and 40
percent pasture. Most of the forest was secondary forest that had been
previously deforested but had regrown. The ranch is located in the
southeast Amazon forest -- the so-called transition forest in northeastern
Mato Grosso. Most of that region was forest but I've witnessed the vast
majority of that area cleared over the past 10 years. It's been very fast-
paced progress with the frontier rapidly moving across the Amazon.
Just a short time ago we had wilderness, but now we have Cargill at our
back door.

Mongabay: What about the laws that require ranchers to keep a portion
of their land forested? Has this not slowed deforestation?

Carter: Yes, since I arrived here there's been a forest reserve law in place.
Actually in 1998 they raised it from 50 percent of your land kept as forest
to 80 percent. That provision really backfired for the environmental
movement. The law was already contested at 50 percent. Raising it to 80
percent just created a mass hysteria and a state of civil disobedience
where landowners said "to heck with this" and just tore down everything.

The fact is, most people never respected the 50 percent requirement in
the first place. For the most part, they just classified rainforest as cerrado
so they could clear more land.
..'
http://news.mongabay.com/2007/0607-carter_interview.html
*

> >> Fresh beef from the Amazon basin may *NOT* be imported
> >> into North America, and almost certainly not into
> >> western Europe, because of hoof and mouth disease is
> >> endemic there.
> >
> > 14/01/2008
> > Europe is our biggest client ....
> > http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N14427141.htm
>
> *Nothing* in that says that the beef comes from the
> Amazonian region of Brazil. In fact, it doesn't - it
> comes from the south-west.

Too late, ball, you've already told us that it does:
*
> *NOT* from the Amazonian region. Brazil's beef exports
> come from its south-west, e.g. Anast\ufffdcio. See
> http://www.mongabay.com/external/brazils_soaring_beef_exports.htm

Anast\ufffdcio is in the Amazon state of Matto Grosso do Sul.
*
How do they get around the foot-and-mouth disease?..

'The requirements include holding animals in EU approved territories
free of foot-and-mouth disease for at least 90 days and keeping
cattle at the designated ranches for at least 40 days prior to slaughter.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N14427141.htm

> >> MEANWHILE, we see that you have thrown in the towel -
> >> conceded defeat - on the issue of meat always and at
> >> all times being a dietary staple for homo sapiens. You
> >> had to, given that meat was a dietary staple of pre
> >> homo sapiens hominids for some 2.25 million years.
> >
> > I've made my case.
>
> You didn't. You *couldn't* - the facts are entirely
> against you. Homo sapiens has always - always and at
> all places - eaten meat, which is not surprising, as
> the predecessor hominid species ate meat for over 2.25
> million years.

'While the amount of meat consumed by our distant ancestors
is still hotly debated, there is consensus that the Pleistocene
diet consisted overwhelmingly of vegetable material.
..'
http://veg.ca/content/view/285/113/

Paleodiet and Its Relation to Atherosclerosis
'... Homo erectus and Homo sapiens, it is assumed that erectus'
basically raw vegetarian diet may be encoded in our present genome.
However, the prehistoric diet, especially during the last 35000 years
(the verified existence of Homo sapiens sapiens [now 195,000ys]),
exhibits a wide variability of dietetic composition due to various
subsistence strategies and geoclimatic conditions of Eurasia.39
...'
http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/reprint/827/1/382.pdf

Snip it again.




Rudy Canoza
2008-01-20 14:35:11 EST
pearl wrote:
> "Rudy Canoza" <pipes@thedismalscience.net> wrote in message news:13p5khoe070o069@corp.supernews.com...
>> pearl wrote:
>>> "Rudy Canoza" <pipes@thedismalscience.net> wrote in message news:13p4rubse1kj060@corp.supernews.com...
>>>> pearl wrote:
>>>>> "Rudy Canoza" <pipes@thedismalscience.net> wrote in message news:13p4frfn16iuhae@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>>> pearl wrote:
>>>>>>> Destruction of rainforest accelerates despite outcry
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> By Daniel Howden, Deputy Foreign Editor
>>>>>>> Published: 18 January 2008
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The destruction of the Amazon rainforest has surged in the past four
>>>>>>> months, raising the prospect of 2008 being a disastrous year for the
>>>>>>> world's most important eco-system, a senior Brazilian government
>>>>>>> scientist has warned.
>>>>>> And it wasn't to supply western developed nations with
>>>>>> "beefburgers".
>>>>> Demand for Brazilian beef threatens rainforest
>>>>> 5 April 2004
>>>>> Source: SciDev.Net
>>>>>
>>>>> Brazil's growing success as an exporter of beef
>>> 'The report shows that the overwhelming majority of the new cattle are
>>> concentrated in Brazil' s Amazon states of Mato Grosso, Pará, and
>>> Rondônia, which were also the states with the greatest deforestation in
>>> 2002.'
>> But that's *NOT* where the exports originate.
>
> Funny ball. In your last post, you were claiming they *DID*:

No, I didn't.


> *
>> *NOT* from the Amazonian region.

Right: the exports are *NOT* from the Amazonian region.



> Anastácio is in the Amazon state of Matto Grosso do Sul.

*NO*, you stupid cunt: Mato Grosso do Sul is *not* an
Amazonian (not "Amazon") state. You don't know what
the fuck you're talking about (but you never do.)
*LOOK* at a map of Brazil, for the love of fuck, you
goddamned idiot.


>
> 'In the Brazilian state of Mato Grosso,

DIFFERENT STATE, you goddamned idiot twat. Mato Grosso
do Sul is a DIFFERENT STATE from Mato Grosso. It is to
the *SOUTH* of it, *OUTSIDE* the Amazon basin.

You are so colossally stupid.



>>>> Fresh beef from the Amazon basin may *NOT* be imported
>>>> into North America, and almost certainly not into
>>>> western Europe, because of hoof and mouth disease is
>>>> endemic there.
>>> 14/01/2008
>>> Europe is our biggest client ....
>>> http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N14427141.htm
>> *Nothing* in that says that the beef comes from the
>> Amazonian region of Brazil. In fact, it doesn't - it
>> comes from the south-west.
>
> Too late, Rudy,

It was too late for you years back, bitch.


>> *NOT* from the Amazonian region. Brazil's beef exports
>> come from its south-west, e.g. Anastácio. See
>> http://www.mongabay.com/external/brazils_soaring_beef_exports.htm
>
> Anastácio is in the Amazon state of Matto Grosso do Sul.

Mato Grosso do Sul is *NOT* an Amazonian state. You
don't know geography, you don't know paleontology, you
don't know a fucking thing.



>>>> MEANWHILE, we see that you have thrown in the towel -
>>>> conceded defeat - on the issue of meat always and at
>>>> all times being a dietary staple for homo sapiens. You
>>>> had to, given that meat was a dietary staple of pre
>>>> homo sapiens hominids for some 2.25 million years.
>>> I've made my case.
>> You didn't. You *couldn't* - the facts are entirely
>> against you. Homo sapiens has always - always and at
>> all places - eaten meat, which is not surprising, as
>> the predecessor hominid species ate meat for over 2.25
>> million years.
>
> 'While the amount of meat consumed by our distant ancestors
> is still hotly debated,

It is not. It is not debated at all, at least not by
any scientists.

You lost, bitch. You can't cite a *single* source that
isn't a crackpot "veg" site that supports your bullshit
claim. Every bit of shit hemorrhage you've flooded us
with came from a BULLSHIT "veg" page, and they're all
polemical liars - as are you.

Meat was a staple of hominid diet for 2.25 million
years before the appearance of homo sapiens. Homo
sapiens evolved as a meat eater, and this is not
contested by *any* scientist.

Pearl
2008-01-21 08:33:26 EST
"Rudy Canoza" <pipes@thedismalscience.net> wrote in message news:13p78qm7fpinvf2@corp.supernews.com...
> pearl wrote:
> > "Rudy Canoza" <pipes@thedismalscience.net> wrote in message news:13p5khoe070o069@corp.supernews.com...
> >> pearl wrote:
> >>> "Rudy Canoza" <pipes@thedismalscience.net> wrote in message news:13p4rubse1kj060@corp.supernews.com...
> >>>> pearl wrote:
> >>>>> "Rudy Canoza" <pipes@thedismalscience.net> wrote in message news:13p4frfn16iuhae@corp.supernews.com...
> >>>>>> pearl wrote:
> >>>>>>> Destruction of rainforest accelerates despite outcry
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> By Daniel Howden, Deputy Foreign Editor
> >>>>>>> Published: 18 January 2008
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The destruction of the Amazon rainforest has surged in the past four
> >>>>>>> months, raising the prospect of 2008 being a disastrous year for the
> >>>>>>> world's most important eco-system, a senior Brazilian government
> >>>>>>> scientist has warned.
> >>>>>> And it wasn't to supply western developed nations with
> >>>>>> "beefburgers".
> >>>>> Demand for Brazilian beef threatens rainforest
> >>>>> 5 April 2004
> >>>>> Source: SciDev.Net
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Brazil's growing success as an exporter of beef
> >>> 'The report shows that the overwhelming majority of the new cattle are
> >>> concentrated in Brazil' s Amazon states of Mato Grosso, Par\ufffd, and
> >>> Rond\ufffdnia, which were also the states with the greatest deforestation in
> >>> 2002.'
> >> But that's *NOT* where the exports originate.
> >
> > Funny ball. In your last post, you were claiming they *DID*:
>
> No, I didn't.
>
>
> > *
> >> *NOT* from the Amazonian region.
>
> Right: the exports are *NOT* from the Amazonian region.

'Mato Grosso do Sul literally means "Southern Thick Forest", a name
inherited from its northern neighbour state of Mato Grosso, of which
it was part until split in the 70s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mato_Grosso_do_Sul

Not thick forest anymore. But, ok, it isn't part of Mato Grosso now.

Nevertheless, a link to an article about a rancher just to the south is
not proof that animals aren't raised in the Amazon for beef exports.

'The Independant

World Bank pledges to save trees... then helps cut down Amazon forest

A month ago it vowed to fight deforestation. Now research reveals it
funds the rainforest's biggest threat.

By Daniel Howden
Published: 13 January 2008

The World Bank has emerged as one of the key backers behind an
explosion of cattle ranching in the Amazon, which new research has
identified as the greatest threat to the survival of the rainforest.
Ranching has grown by half in the last three years, driven by new
industrial slaughterhouses which are being constructed in the Amazon
basin with the help of the World Bank. The revelation flies in the face
of claims from the bank that it is funding efforts to halt deforestation
and reduce the massive greenhouse gas emissions it causes.

Roberto Smeraldi, head of Friends of the Earth Brazil and lead author
of the new report, obtained exclusively by The Independent on Sunday,
said the bank's contradictory policy on forests was now clear: "On the
one hand you try and save the forest, on the other you give incentives
for its conversion."

There are now more than 74 million cattle reared in the Amazon basin,
the world's most important eco-system, where they outnumber people
by a ratio of more than three to one. Fuelled by massive illegal ranches,
the South American giant has become the world's leading beef exporter,
rearing more cattle than all 25 EU members put together. This industrial
expansion comes despite international agreements to combat deforestation,
and claims from the government of Brazil that it is succeeding in slowing
the destruction of the world's largest standing forest.

"Land-use change in the Amazon is first and foremost a product of
ranching. It is on the hooves of cattle, out on the forest fringe, where
the repercussions are being felt," said Mr Smeraldi.

The new report, "The Cattle Realm", comes after a year in which
deforestation was acknowledged as the second leading cause of carbon
emissions worldwide and was included in the plan for a new global treaty
to fight climate change. But the catastrophic destruction of the Amazon
to make way for ranches is being funded by the same international
institutions that have pledged to fight deforestation.

The World Bank, which unveiled a new programme to fund "avoided
deforestation" at the UN climate summit in Bali last month, is at the
same time pouring money into the expansion of slaughterhouses in
the Amazon region. The new report estimates that the internationally
funded expansion of Brazil's beef industry was responsible for up to
12 billion tons of CO2 emissions over the past decade - an amount
comparable to two years of emissions from the US.

The World Bank, which British taxpayers help to fund, lent its backing
to the inclusion of deforestation in the Bali "road map" signed by 180
countries last month. At the summit the bank unveiled its Forest Carbon
Partnership Facility (FCPF), aimed at reducing deforestation by
compensating developing countries for carbon dioxide reductions
realised by maintaining their forests. The pilot programme has received
more than $160m (\ufffd82m) in funding from donor governments.

The World Bank's president, Robert Zoellick, claimed that the project
"signals that the world cares about the global value of forests and is
ready to pay for it. There is now a value to conserving, not just
harvesting the forest." But the institution, set up to provide loans to
developing countries aimed at reducing poverty, has been accused of
hypocrisy as it talks up relatively low levels of funding on "avoided
deforestation" while spending millions more on the industries - such
as cattle ranching and soya production - that are the acknowledged
drivers of forest destruction.

In a single project last year, the IFC - part of the World Bank group -
handed $9m to Brazil's leading beef processor to upgrade its
slaughterhouse operations in the Amazon, despite an environmental
study, carried out for the IFC, which showed that expansion of a
single slaughterhouse in Maraba would lead to the loss of up to
300,000 hectares of forest to make way for more cattle.

The project was signed off despite angry resistance from up to 30 NGOs
in Brazil and the intervention of the influential US lobbying group the
Sierra Club, all of which pointed out that the high-risk agricultural project
contradicted the bank's stated aim of reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

In the past three years Brazil's National Development Bank and the World
Bank have poured funds into the southern Amazon, fuelling the expansion
of the cattle industry with new slaughterhouses and four million additional
head of cattle. "While governments insist they are doing their utmost to
stop deforestation they have been putting in place incentives for the
destruction of the forest. It is taxpayers' money fuelling this," said Mr
Smeraldi.

Only the US rears more cattle than Brazil, which since 2004 has led the
world in beef exports. The endangered eco-system of the Amazon basin
has accounted for 96 per cent of all growth in the country's cattle industry.
The ranchers are expanding as meat consumption soars both in Brazil and
the rest of the world. Britain is the sixth largest importer of Brazilian beef,
buying more than 80,000 tons in the year to November 2007.

The Amazon basin is home to one in 10 of the world's mammals and 15
per cent of land-based plant species. It holds more than half the world's
fresh water, and its vast forests act as the largest carbon sink on the planet,
providing a vital check on the greenhouse effect. This vital resource faces
three main dangers: the expansion of the soya industry, driven by high
prices for animal feed; the surge in sugarcane plantations to feed the
sudden and insatiable global appetite for bio-fuels; and the traditional
threat of cattle ranching, underestimated in recent years as soya and
sugarcane have received more attention.

Since the "Save the Amazon" campaigns of the 1970s the role of illegal
ranchers in the destruction of the rainforest has been widely known.
Virtually non-existent government control has allowed ranchers to clear
large areas of remote forest for pasture. But the land - while initially fertile
- quickly erodes, spurring the need for new pasture and driving the
chainsaws further into the forest, in a vicious cycle largely unchecked
for decades. Carbon dioxide emissions from the fires set to clear the
trees have helped to propel Brazil into the top four carbon polluters in
the world, exceeded only by the US, China and Indonesia.

At the end of each dry season, in anticipation of the first winter rains,
farmers and cattle ranchers throughout South America set fires to
"renovate" pasture land. But this process has spun out of control as
deforestation and climate change have created a tinderbox, leading to
ever-larger blazes. Last October a record area of the rainforest went up
in flames, choking vast areas of not just Brazil but Paraguay and Bolivia.

There are increasing signs that the strain placed on the Amazon's
eco-system could lead to an irreversible breakdown Last month the
WWF predicted that the combination of drought and fire could wipe
out the Amazon by 2030, with disastrous consequences for the world.

http://environment.independent.co.uk/climate_change/article3333872.ece

> >>>> MEANWHILE, we see that you have thrown in the towel -
> >>>> conceded defeat - on the issue of meat always and at
> >>>> all times being a dietary staple for homo sapiens. You
> >>>> had to, given that meat was a dietary staple of pre
> >>>> homo sapiens hominids for some 2.25 million years.
> >>> I've made my case.
> >> You didn't. You *couldn't* - the facts are entirely
> >> against you. Homo sapiens has always - always and at
> >> all places - eaten meat, which is not surprising, as
> >> the predecessor hominid species ate meat for over 2.25
> >> million years.
> >
> > 'While the amount of meat consumed by our distant ancestors
> > is still hotly debated,
>
> It is not. It is not debated at all, at least not by
> any scientists.

Archaeological evidence for meat-eating by Plio-Pleistocene ...
The importance of meat-eating in human evolution has long been
a controversial subject1?4. The best available evidence of hominid
activities between 2 and ...
www.nature.com/nature/journal/v291/n5816/abs/291574a0.html

JSTOR: Meat Eating and Hominid Evolution
In spite of the central place assigned to studies of meat eating,
scholars from the ... "Rethinking the Behavioral Ecology of
Plio-Pleistocene Hominid Meat ...
links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0011-3204(199912)40%3A5%3C726%3AMEAHE%3E2.0.CO%3B2-E

IngentaConnect Male strategies and Plio-Pleistocene archaeology
Collectively, Plio-Pleistocene site location and assemblage composition are
... Even if meat were acquired more reliably than the archaeology indicates, ...
www.ingentaconnect.com/content/ap/hu/2002/00000043/00000006/art00604 -

Testing meat-eating in early hominids: an analysis of butchery ...
..tions at Plio-Pleistocene sites is still a controversial issue. Meat-.
eating and bone marrow consumption are often presented either ...
www.springerlink.com/index/N3613VK677403542.pdf -

> You lost, bitch. You can't cite a *single* source that
> isn't a crackpot "veg" site that supports

Projection.

Paleodiet and Its Relation to Atherosclerosis
'... Homo erectus and Homo sapiens, it is assumed that erectus'
basically raw vegetarian diet may be encoded in our present genome.
However, the prehistoric diet, especially during the last 35000 years
(the verified existence of Homo sapiens sapiens [now 195,000ys]),
exhibits a wide variability of dietetic composition due to various
subsistence strategies and geoclimatic conditions of Eurasia.39
...'
http://www.annalsnyas.org/cgi/reprint/827/1/382.pdf




Rudy Canoza
2008-01-21 11:35:24 EST
pearl wrote:
> "Rudy Canoza" <pipes@thedismalscience.net> wrote in message news:13p78qm7fpinvf2@corp.supernews.com...
>> pearl wrote:
>>> "Rudy Canoza" <pipes@thedismalscience.net> wrote in message news:13p5khoe070o069@corp.supernews.com...
>>>> pearl wrote:
>>>>> "Rudy Canoza" <pipes@thedismalscience.net> wrote in message news:13p4rubse1kj060@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>>> pearl wrote:
>>>>>>> "Rudy Canoza" <pipes@thedismalscience.net> wrote in message news:13p4frfn16iuhae@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>>>>> pearl wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Destruction of rainforest accelerates despite outcry
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> By Daniel Howden, Deputy Foreign Editor
>>>>>>>>> Published: 18 January 2008
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The destruction of the Amazon rainforest has surged in the past four
>>>>>>>>> months, raising the prospect of 2008 being a disastrous year for the
>>>>>>>>> world's most important eco-system, a senior Brazilian government
>>>>>>>>> scientist has warned.
>>>>>>>> And it wasn't to supply western developed nations with
>>>>>>>> "beefburgers".
>>>>>>> Demand for Brazilian beef threatens rainforest
>>>>>>> 5 April 2004
>>>>>>> Source: SciDev.Net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brazil's growing success as an exporter of beef
>>>>> 'The report shows that the overwhelming majority of the new cattle are
>>>>> concentrated in Brazil' s Amazon states of Mato Grosso, Pará, and
>>>>> Rondônia, which were also the states with the greatest deforestation in
>>>>> 2002.'
>>>> But that's *NOT* where the exports originate.
>>> Funny Rudy. In your last post, you were claiming they *DID*:
>> No, I didn't.
>>
>>
>>> *
>>>> *NOT* from the Amazonian region.
>> Right: the exports are *NOT* from the Amazonian region.

And they aren't. The exports come from the Brazilian
south-west - *outside* of Amazonia.


>
> 'Mato Grosso do Sul literally means "Southern Thick Forest",

It's not part of the Amazonian basin, you stupid cunt.
No amount of your shit hemorrhage will change that
(nor will it change the fact you're a stupid cunt.)


>
>>>>>> MEANWHILE, we see that you have thrown in the towel -
>>>>>> conceded defeat - on the issue of meat always and at
>>>>>> all times being a dietary staple for homo sapiens. You
>>>>>> had to, given that meat was a dietary staple of pre
>>>>>> homo sapiens hominids for some 2.25 million years.
>>>>> I've made my case.
>>>> You didn't. You *couldn't* - the facts are entirely
>>>> against you. Homo sapiens has always - always and at
>>>> all places - eaten meat, which is not surprising, as
>>>> the predecessor hominid species ate meat for over 2.25
>>>> million years.
>>> 'While the amount of meat consumed by our distant ancestors
>>> is still hotly debated,
>> It is not. It is not debated at all, at least not by
>> any scientists.
>
> Archaeological evidence for meat-eating by Plio-Pleistocene ...

Homo sapiens evolved as meat eaters. This is not
disputed by anyone. Archeological evidence for meat
eating extends back for millions of years prior to the
appearance of homo sapiens. Homo erectus ate meat,
period, and did so for millions of years prior to homo
sapiens.


>> You lost, bitch. You can't cite a *single* source that
>> isn't a crackpot "veg" site that supports
>
> Projection.

No. You can't cite a single source that isn't a
crackpot "veg" site that says the hominids from which
homo sapiens evolved did not include meat as a staple
element of their diet. You lost.
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