Vegetarian Discussion: More Farmland Could Be Put To Use For The Growing Of Energy Crops Because Of The Problems Affecting The Livestock Industry, A Farming Leader Has Said.

More Farmland Could Be Put To Use For The Growing Of Energy Crops Because Of The Problems Affecting The Livestock Industry, A Farming Leader Has Said.
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Gloria
2007-11-16 06:37:41 EST
This'll put the cat among the pigeons!

More farmland could be put to use for the growing of energy crops
because of the problems affecting the livestock industry, a farming
leader has said.



John Picken, chairman of NFU Scotland's biofuels working group, said
the acres of oilseed rape and wheat grown could be increased with
government backing.

Foot-and-mouth over the summer into the autumn led to restrictions on
the movement of animals, lower prices and sheep on hill farms being
slaughtered because they could not be sold and faced a shortage of
grazing with the onset of winter.

Mr Picken said the difficulties facing livestock farmers could see
grassland being ploughed up and left fallow.

However, with financial backing at UK level the land could be put to
use for the growing of oilseed rape for the production of bio-diesel,
or wheat for generating heat.

Mr Picken added: "The growing of cereals for malting is up to maximum
capacity and I don't think we can produce any more because there are
not any more maltsters or distilleries to provide for.

"So there is a bit of room so to speak for growing energy crops."

The majority of oilseed rape production is in the north east, but the
arable farmer from St Andrews, Fife, said almost anywhere in Scotland
was suited to the crop.


Biofuels are any kind of fuel made from living things, or from the
waste they produce
Scots racing driver Dario Franchitti, seen above being congratulated
by actress wife Ashley Judd, won America's Indianapolis 500 driving a
car powered by pure ethanol made from corn
The Renewables Transport Fuels Obligation (RTFO) sets a UK target for
the use of biofuels for transport at 5% by 2010
The Forestry Commission runs a large number of its vehicles on biofuel
blends


Highest yields could be gained in the Highlands because of the long
hours of daylight in summer.

Mr Picken said the UK was lagging behind other countries in the
production of biofuels.

He said: "America is leading the way with subsidies and tax breaks and
they are going to double their usage of maze."

Mr Picken conceded there was a debate on how to balance growing for
energy and food, but warned that the production of crops for biofuels
was at risk of becoming a "missed opportunity" in Scotland.

He welcomed moves to open bio-diesel plants at Grangemouth, near
Falkirk, and Rosyth, near Edinburgh.

Ineos Enterprises' proposal to build one of Europe's biggest
bio-diesel plants in Grangemouth was given the go-ahead by Falkirk
Council in October.

However, plans by DMF Biodiesel for a processing facility in Rosyth
has returned to Fife Council as a live planning application following
a legal challenge.

The local authority had previously given its approval.

The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs said farmers
growing energy crops may be eligible for a single Common Agricultural
Policy payment and also claim EU energy aid payment to a maximum of 45
Euros (£32) per hectare.

A spokeswoman said: "UK government see biofuels as part of the
renewable energy mix, but wish to ensure that the biofuel supplied in
the UK offers carbon benefits and is produced sustainably."

The Scottish Government said it was looking at the role of biofuels in
an effort to reduce CO2 emissions.

A spokesman said it had also recently committed £10.2m of investment
in biofuel production through Regional Selective Assistance funding
for the plant in Grangemouth and another in Motherwell.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/7092350.stm

Published: 2007/11/15 00:05:50 GMT












pam the SPAMMERS send an email to enquires@urfreesim.co.uk

Tel
2007-11-16 07:06:32 EST
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:37:41 +0000, Gloria <enquires@urfreesim.co.uk>
wrote:

>This'll put the cat among the pigeons!
>
>More farmland could be put to use for the growing of energy crops
>because of the problems affecting the livestock industry, a farming
>leader has said.

Wonders never cease. The livestock industry waking up to the fact it
is a global liability.

>John Picken, chairman of NFU Scotland's biofuels working group, said
>the acres of oilseed rape and wheat grown could be increased with
>government backing.
>
>Foot-and-mouth over the summer into the autumn led to restrictions on
>the movement of animals, lower prices and sheep on hill farms being
>slaughtered because they could not be sold and faced a shortage of
>grazing with the onset of winter.
>
>Mr Picken said the difficulties facing livestock farmers could see
>grassland being ploughed up and left fallow.
>
>However, with financial backing at UK level the land could be put to
>use for the growing of oilseed rape for the production of bio-diesel,
>or wheat for generating heat.
>
>Mr Picken added: "The growing of cereals for malting is up to maximum
>capacity and I don't think we can produce any more because there are
>not any more maltsters or distilleries to provide for.
>
>"So there is a bit of room so to speak for growing energy crops."
>
>The majority of oilseed rape production is in the north east, but the
>arable farmer from St Andrews, Fife, said almost anywhere in Scotland
>was suited to the crop.
>
>
> Biofuels are any kind of fuel made from living things, or from the
>waste they produce
>Scots racing driver Dario Franchitti, seen above being congratulated
>by actress wife Ashley Judd, won America's Indianapolis 500 driving a
>car powered by pure ethanol made from corn
>The Renewables Transport Fuels Obligation (RTFO) sets a UK target for
>the use of biofuels for transport at 5% by 2010
>The Forestry Commission runs a large number of its vehicles on biofuel
>blends
>
>
>Highest yields could be gained in the Highlands because of the long
>hours of daylight in summer.
>
>Mr Picken said the UK was lagging behind other countries in the
>production of biofuels.
>
>He said: "America is leading the way with subsidies and tax breaks and
>they are going to double their usage of maze."
>
>Mr Picken conceded there was a debate on how to balance growing for
>energy and food, but warned that the production of crops for biofuels
>was at risk of becoming a "missed opportunity" in Scotland.
>
>He welcomed moves to open bio-diesel plants at Grangemouth, near
>Falkirk, and Rosyth, near Edinburgh.
>
>Ineos Enterprises' proposal to build one of Europe's biggest
>bio-diesel plants in Grangemouth was given the go-ahead by Falkirk
>Council in October.
>
>However, plans by DMF Biodiesel for a processing facility in Rosyth
>has returned to Fife Council as a live planning application following
>a legal challenge.
>
>The local authority had previously given its approval.
>
>The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs said farmers
>growing energy crops may be eligible for a single Common Agricultural
>Policy payment and also claim EU energy aid payment to a maximum of 45
>Euros (£32) per hectare.
>
>A spokeswoman said: "UK government see biofuels as part of the
>renewable energy mix, but wish to ensure that the biofuel supplied in
>the UK offers carbon benefits and is produced sustainably."
>
>The Scottish Government said it was looking at the role of biofuels in
>an effort to reduce CO2 emissions.
>
>A spokesman said it had also recently committed £10.2m of investment
>in biofuel production through Regional Selective Assistance funding
>for the plant in Grangemouth and another in Motherwell.
>
>Story from BBC NEWS:
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/scotland/highlands_and_islands/7092350.stm
>
>Published: 2007/11/15 00:05:50 GMT
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>pam the SPAMMERS send an email to enquires@urfreesim.co.uk


Jim Webster
2007-11-16 08:00:49 EST

"Tel" <limersongs@yaboo.com> wrote in message
news:gt1rj39ajqie042gbl9uvcqunpig21u5gb@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:37:41 +0000, Gloria <enquires@urfreesim.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>This'll put the cat among the pigeons!
>>
>>More farmland could be put to use for the growing of energy crops
>>because of the problems affecting the livestock industry, a farming
>>leader has said.
>
> Wonders never cease. The livestock industry waking up to the fact it
> is a global liability.
>

given the sheer amount of byproducts produced by the food industry and
biofuel industry which can be used as livestock feed, this could do a lot
towards decreasing the costs of livestock production.

Jim Webster



Gloria
2007-11-16 08:15:16 EST
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:00:49 -0000, "Jim Webster"
<*m@websterpagebank.freeswerve.co.uk> wrote:

>
>"Tel" <limersongs@yaboo.com> wrote in message
>news:gt1rj39ajqie042gbl9uvcqunpig21u5gb@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:37:41 +0000, Gloria <enquires@urfreesim.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>This'll put the cat among the pigeons!
>>>
>>>More farmland could be put to use for the growing of energy crops
>>>because of the problems affecting the livestock industry, a farming
>>>leader has said.
>>
>> Wonders never cease. The livestock industry waking up to the fact it
>> is a global liability.
>>
>
>given the sheer amount of byproducts produced by the food industry and
>biofuel industry which can be used as livestock feed, this could do a lot
>towards decreasing the costs of livestock production.

The only way to decrease the global cost of livestock farming is to
reduce it, then we can feed the world and have a little change left
over.











pam the SPAMMERS send an email to enquires@urfreesim.co.uk

Peter Duncanson
2007-11-16 08:23:54 EST
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:00:49 -0000, "Jim Webster"
<*m@websterpagebank.freeswerve.co.uk> wrote:

>
>"Tel" <limersongs@yaboo.com> wrote in message
>news:gt1rj39ajqie042gbl9uvcqunpig21u5gb@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 11:37:41 +0000, Gloria <enquires@urfreesim.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>This'll put the cat among the pigeons!
>>>
>>>More farmland could be put to use for the growing of energy crops
>>>because of the problems affecting the livestock industry, a farming
>>>leader has said.
>>
>> Wonders never cease. The livestock industry waking up to the fact it
>> is a global liability.
>>
>
>given the sheer amount of byproducts produced by the food industry and
>biofuel industry which can be used as livestock feed, this could do a lot
>towards decreasing the costs of livestock production.
>
Yes. Devoting an increased percentage of arable land to the
production of biofuel will reduce the percentage available for
the production of cereals and vegetables for human consumption,
while at the same time producing increased, and cheaper,
livestock feed.

This could easily result in livestock being raised solely in
feedlots. Feedlots can be located on land which has no
agricultural potential.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in uk.business.agriculture)

Jim Webster
2007-11-16 08:33:16 EST

"Peter Duncanson" <mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message
news:rt5rj3h5s3a7a4p3et8g9603v9v8lftbh1@4ax.com...
>>>
>>
>>given the sheer amount of byproducts produced by the food industry and
>>biofuel industry which can be used as livestock feed, this could do a lot
>>towards decreasing the costs of livestock production.
>>
> Yes. Devoting an increased percentage of arable land to the
> production of biofuel will reduce the percentage available for
> the production of cereals and vegetables for human consumption,
> while at the same time producing increased, and cheaper,
> livestock feed.
>
> This could easily result in livestock being raised solely in
> feedlots. Feedlots can be located on land which has no
> agricultural potential.
>

The sensible place to put them would be on the edge of urban areas, reducing
the distance livestock would travel to and after slaughter.
Not only that but as there will have to be some system set up for recycling
human sewage back onto the land, as we cannot go on just tipping it in the
sea or incinerating it, manure from the feedlots could be collected at the
same time and sent back to the arable areas.
This would actually be pretty much the same as used to happen before they
introduced flush toilets into the major cities, where sewage and street
sweepings (mainly horse dung) were sent by barge to renew the fertility of
the arable lands

Jim Webster
> --
> Peter Duncanson, UK
> (in uk.business.agriculture)



Steve Firth
2007-11-16 09:54:37 EST
Jim Webster <jim@websterpagebank.freeswerve.co.uk> wrote:

> The sensible place to put them would be on the edge of urban areas,
> reducing the distance livestock would travel to and after slaughter. Not
> only that but as there will have to be some system set up for recycling
> human sewage back onto the land, as we cannot go on just tipping it in the
> sea or incinerating it, manure from the feedlots could be collected at the
> same time and sent back to the arable areas. This would actually be pretty
> much the same as used to happen before they introduced flush toilets into
> the major cities, where sewage and street sweepings (mainly horse dung)
> were sent by barge to renew the fertility of the arable lands

The problem here is that the dirty folk in cities insist on mixing toxic
pollutants with human sewage. Hence most sewage sludge is so badly
contaminated that it really should not be put onto fields. Industrial
liquid waste really needs to be handled separately from domestic sewage.

Cities have only managed to grow so large, so fast by having almost no
checks on the pollutants that they create/dump. It's ironic that it is
almost exclusively city dwellers that feel that they are qualified to
dictate to farmers how they should farm and what they should produce.

Peter Duncanson
2007-11-16 10:24:33 EST
On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:33:16 -0000, "Jim Webster"
<*m@websterpagebank.freeswerve.co.uk> wrote:

>
>"Peter Duncanson" <mail@peterduncanson.net> wrote in message
>news:rt5rj3h5s3a7a4p3et8g9603v9v8lftbh1@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>
>>>given the sheer amount of byproducts produced by the food industry and
>>>biofuel industry which can be used as livestock feed, this could do a lot
>>>towards decreasing the costs of livestock production.
>>>
>> Yes. Devoting an increased percentage of arable land to the
>> production of biofuel will reduce the percentage available for
>> the production of cereals and vegetables for human consumption,
>> while at the same time producing increased, and cheaper,
>> livestock feed.
>>
>> This could easily result in livestock being raised solely in
>> feedlots. Feedlots can be located on land which has no
>> agricultural potential.
>>
>
>The sensible place to put them would be on the edge of urban areas, reducing
>the distance livestock would travel to and after slaughter.
>Not only that but as there will have to be some system set up for recycling
>human sewage back onto the land, as we cannot go on just tipping it in the
>sea or incinerating it, manure from the feedlots could be collected at the
>same time and sent back to the arable areas.
>This would actually be pretty much the same as used to happen before they
>introduced flush toilets into the major cities, where sewage and street
>sweepings (mainly horse dung) were sent by barge to renew the fertility of
>the arable lands
>
In the long term animal parts such as muscles might be grown
"hydroponically" without the need for growing complete animals.

Obviously there would be a need for a growth medium, including
nutrients, and there would be waste to be disposed of. If the
research hasn't been started already it should be.

Such meat factories could be sited below ground level, possibly
under arable land.

The slogan for this project might be: "Grow meat, not animals".

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in uk.business.agriculture)

CWatters
2007-11-16 10:36:57 EST

"Gloria" <enquires@urfreesim.co.uk> wrote in message
news:p20rj31nplmr3kq74gtiteglroafkaos1t@4ax.com...
> This'll put the cat among the pigeons!
>
> More farmland could be put to use for the growing of energy crops
> because of the problems affecting the livestock industry, a farming
> leader has said.

Can't blame them, biofuel is in demand and is already contributing to the
current high price of wheat (doubled in the past year I believe).



Jim Webster
2007-11-16 10:43:37 EST

"Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1i7oea5.sy7obznbninrN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> Jim Webster <jim@websterpagebank.freeswerve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> The sensible place to put them would be on the edge of urban areas,
>> reducing the distance livestock would travel to and after slaughter. Not
>> only that but as there will have to be some system set up for recycling
>> human sewage back onto the land, as we cannot go on just tipping it in
>> the
>> sea or incinerating it, manure from the feedlots could be collected at
>> the
>> same time and sent back to the arable areas. This would actually be
>> pretty
>> much the same as used to happen before they introduced flush toilets into
>> the major cities, where sewage and street sweepings (mainly horse dung)
>> were sent by barge to renew the fertility of the arable lands
>
> The problem here is that the dirty folk in cities insist on mixing toxic
> pollutants with human sewage. Hence most sewage sludge is so badly
> contaminated that it really should not be put onto fields. Industrial
> liquid waste really needs to be handled separately from domestic sewage.
>
> Cities have only managed to grow so large, so fast by having almost no
> checks on the pollutants that they create/dump. It's ironic that it is
> almost exclusively city dwellers that feel that they are qualified to
> dictate to farmers how they should farm and what they should produce.

We have two underlying problems. One is simple physics and biology. If you
take a food crop off the land, you remove nutrients and these have to be
replaced. I suppose we could go back to alternate years fallow and at at the
very least half output, or we could go formally organic which will not
reduce yields by that much, but the rational way of tackling it is to
replace the nutrients, not through purchased artificial fertilizers, but
with the sewage from the people who ate the food. This is how nature works.
So we have to get systems set up where the manure can be shipped back to the
land.
This is where the second problem arises. As you say, cities are disgusting
places and most sewage is seriously contaminated. This will probably mean
very strict controls in place. Also as human sewage is, by definition,
produced by humans, it will probably have some bacterial contamination etc.
This may mean that the sewage ought to be composted properly before it is
returned to the land, so large areas on the edge of cities could be reserved
for this.
Actually it might make more sense to allow the sewers to be used purely as
drains, and to shift the sewage separately, going back to a dry closet
system with weekly collections. That way you could be pretty well guaranteed
to keep the contamination down to a managable level.

Jim Webster


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