Vegetarian Discussion: PHASES OF MANIFESTATION

PHASES OF MANIFESTATION
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The 2nd Coming Of Christ
2007-09-18 15:17:32 EST
there are 3 phases: pre-existence, existence, and post-existence.

only the middle phase (existence) is real, the other two are
merely conceptual or imaginary phases which act as markers for the
REAL period of manifestation, when a real experiencer can be said
to be gaining or losing anything. (eg: when the possibility of
being better off or worse off exist)

therefore one cannot say a person is better off or worse off when
in the post-existence phase than in the existence phase... there
is no experiencer with a welfare to determine that.

likewise one cannot say that one was better off or worse off in
the pre-existence phase. again: there is no experiencer and the
phase is merely imaginary.

so that leaves us with the REAL phase of existence. Are we better
off or worse off alive than in either pre or post-existence? I
guess that depends on merely subjective opinions of individual
experiencers hypothesizing on the worth of their own existence.

octinomos

--

``Could it be that ... political theater is being staged, very much like the wrestling matches on TV, with the so-called neoconservatives and their so-called enemies, such as Pat Buchanan, loudly making public statements intended to convince the opponents of US foreign policy actions that these actions are the fault of 'the Jews'?'' --Jared Israel/Emperor's Clothes




Dutch
2007-09-18 16:37:23 EST
the 2nd coming of christ wrote:
> there are 3 phases: pre-existence, existence, and post-existence.
>
> only the middle phase (existence) is real, the other two are
> merely conceptual or imaginary phases which act as markers for the
> REAL period of manifestation, when a real experiencer can be said
> to be gaining or losing anything. (eg: when the possibility of
> being better off or worse off exist)
>
> therefore one cannot say a person is better off or worse off when
> in the post-existence phase than in the existence phase... there
> is no experiencer with a welfare to determine that.
>
> likewise one cannot say that one was better off or worse off in
> the pre-existence phase. again: there is no experiencer and the
> phase is merely imaginary.
>
> so that leaves us with the REAL phase of existence. Are we better
> off or worse off alive than in either pre or post-existence? I
> guess that depends on merely subjective opinions of individual
> experiencers hypothesizing on the worth of their own existence.

Not bad, but it misses an essential point. Moral significance,
the topic we are discussing, begins at conception and persists
after death. "Post-existence" relates to an actual person whose
life and death had meaning, while "pre-existence" is wholly
imaginary and undifferentiated, referring to no particular
living being, past or present.

The 2nd Coming Of Christ
2007-09-18 23:58:38 EST
On Tue, 18 Sep 2007 20:37:23 GMT, Dutch <no@email.com> wrote:

>the 2nd coming of christ wrote:
>> there are 3 phases: pre-existence, existence, and post-existence.
>>
>> only the middle phase (existence) is real, the other two are
>> merely conceptual or imaginary phases which act as markers for the
>> REAL period of manifestation, when a real experiencer can be said
>> to be gaining or losing anything. (eg: when the possibility of
>> being better off or worse off exist)
>>
>> therefore one cannot say a person is better off or worse off when
>> in the post-existence phase than in the existence phase... there
>> is no experiencer with a welfare to determine that.
>>
>> likewise one cannot say that one was better off or worse off in
>> the pre-existence phase. again: there is no experiencer and the
>> phase is merely imaginary.
>>
>> so that leaves us with the REAL phase of existence. Are we better
>> off or worse off alive than in either pre or post-existence? I
>> guess that depends on merely subjective opinions of individual
>> experiencers hypothesizing on the worth of their own existence.
>
>Not bad, but it misses an essential point. Moral significance,
>the topic we are discussing,

i'm not discussing that. i'm discussing real and imaginary phases
of manifestation.

>begins at conception and persists
>after death. "Post-existence" relates to an actual person whose
>life and death had meaning, while "pre-existence" is wholly
>imaginary

wrong. they're both imaginary phases for an entity that does not
exist. only the middle phase is real and has an experiencer with
a welfare. it is true that after death a lot of people meddle in
the significance of an entity that no longer exists and therefore
suffers or gains nothing. let it rest in peace for god's sake...

>and undifferentiated, referring to no particular
>living being, past or present.

both imaginary phases refer to the middle (real) phase and are
markers for it, nothing more...

--

``Could it be that ... political theater is being staged, very much like the wrestling matches on TV, with the so-called neoconservatives and their so-called enemies, such as Pat Buchanan, loudly making public statements intended to convince the opponents of US foreign policy actions that these actions are the fault of 'the Jews'?'' --Jared Israel/Emperor's Clothes




Whining, Crying, Bawl
2007-09-20 15:04:09 EST
On Sep 18, 12:17 pm, jesucris...@netscape.net (the 2nd coming of
christ) wrote:
> there are 3 phases: pre-existence, existence, and post-existence.
>
> only the middle phase (existence) is real, the other two are
> merely conceptual



Then where does the soul come from?







or imaginary phases which act as markers for the
> REAL period of manifestation, when a real experiencer can be said
> to be gaining or losing anything. (eg: when the possibility of
> being better off or worse off exist)
>
> therefore one cannot say a person is better off or worse off when
> in the post-existence phase than in the existence phase... there
> is no experiencer with a welfare to determine that.
>
> likewise one cannot say that one was better off or worse off in
> the pre-existence phase. again: there is no experiencer and the
> phase is merely imaginary.
>
> so that leaves us with the REAL phase of existence. Are we better
> off or worse off alive than in either pre or post-existence? I
> guess that depends on merely subjective opinions of individual
> experiencers hypothesizing on the worth of their own existence.
>
> octinomos
>
> --
>
> ``Could it be that ... political theater is being staged, very much like the wrestling matches on TV, with the so-called neoconservatives and their so-called enemies, such as Pat Buchanan, loudly making public statements intended to convince the opponents of US foreign policy actions that these actions are the fault of 'the Jews'?'' --Jared Israel/Emperor's Clothes



Dutch
2007-09-20 15:29:34 EST
Whining, Crying, Bawl wrote:
> On Sep 18, 12:17 pm, jesucris...@netscape.net (the 2nd coming of
> christ) wrote:
>> there are 3 phases: pre-existence, existence, and post-existence.
>>
>> only the middle phase (existence) is real, the other two are
>> merely conceptual
>
>
>
> Then where does the soul come from?

What's the soul? How can it be distinguished from the life
energy of the organism?

D*@.
2007-09-20 15:40:34 EST
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:04:09 -0700, "Whining, Crying, Bawl" <bunghole-jonnie@lycos.com> wrote:

>On Sep 18, 12:17 pm, jesucris...@netscape.net (the 2nd coming of
>christ) wrote:
>> there are 3 phases: pre-existence, existence, and post-existence.
>>
>> only the middle phase (existence) is real, the other two are
>> merely conceptual
>
>
>
>Then where does the soul come from?

There are three possibilities afaik:

1. There is no soul.
2. It originates independant of an Earthly body.
3. It originates along with an Earthly body.

If you can think of others, I'd be interested in what
they are.

Biggus Dickus
2007-09-20 21:02:22 EST
On Sep 18, 12:17 pm, jesucris...@netscape.net (the 2nd coming of
christ) wrote:
> there are 3 phases: pre-existence, existence, and post-existence.
>
> only the middle phase (existence) is real, the other two are
> merely conceptual or imaginary phases which act as markers for the
> REAL period of manifestation, when a real experiencer can be said
> to be gaining or losing anything. (eg: when the possibility of
> being better off or worse off exist)
>
> therefore one cannot say a person is better off or worse off when
> in the post-existence phase than in the existence phase... there
> is no experiencer with a welfare to determine that.
>
> likewise one cannot say that one was better off or worse off in
> the pre-existence phase. again: there is no experiencer and the
> phase is merely imaginary.
>
> so that leaves us with the REAL phase of existence. Are we better
> off or worse off alive than in either pre or post-existence? I
> guess that depends on merely subjective opinions of individual
> experiencers hypothesizing on the worth of their own existence.
>
> octinomos
>
> --
>
> ``Could it be that ... political theater is being staged, very much like the wrestling matches on TV, with the so-called neoconservatives and their so-called enemies, such as Pat Buchanan, loudly making public statements intended to convince the opponents of US foreign policy actions that these actions are the fault of 'the Jews'?'' --Jared Israel/Emperor's Clothes

Is this alt.satanism or alt.theosophy? Snore....

Wanda


The 2nd Coming Of Christ
2007-09-21 05:03:37 EST
On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 01:02:22 -0000, Biggus Dickus
<*y@comcast.net> wrote:

>Is this alt.satanism or alt.theosophy? Snore....
>
>Wanda
>

if i wanted to post something that was strictly satanic i wouldn't
include the activism and vegetarianism groups...

--

``Could it be that ... political theater is being staged, very much like the wrestling matches on TV, with the so-called neoconservatives and their so-called enemies, such as Pat Buchanan, loudly making public statements intended to convince the opponents of US foreign policy actions that these actions are the fault of 'the Jews'?'' --Jared Israel/Emperor's Clothes



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