News article from The (Portland) Oregonian - August 2, 2007
Animal-rights protesters have harassed primate researcher Eliot Spindel for years, sometimes demonstrating noisily outside his Lake Oswego (Oregon) home.
Now the Animal Liberation Front, an underground group characterized by the FBI as a leading domestic terrorist organization, apparently has drawn a bead on Spindel's domicile.
A contractor on Tuesday discovered graffiti spray-painted on the garage door of Spindel's house that read, "ALF eyes on you!" His daughter's car was covered with white foam.
Spindel said he and his family were not at home at the time of the vandalism.
Groups of protesters have demonstrated outside Oregon Health & Science University for years, even showing up at the homes of more than a dozen researchers. But the protests took a turn last April, when masked activists demonstrating at the campus carried signs reading "A.L.F. welcome here" and "ALF vs. OHSU coming summer 2007."
Spindel, a 55-year-old senior scientist at the Oregon National Primate Research Center, said he uses mice, monkeys and cultured cells to study ways to block the effects of nicotine and smoking on unborn children.
"There's still a half a million mothers a year who smoke while pregnant," he said. That behavior, he added, "doubles the chances of children getting asthma. . . . It increases Sudden Infant Death Syndrome and pneumonia. So we're trying to block some of those effects on children."
The Animal Liberation Front typically channels anonymous claims of responsibility for its crimes to the North American Animal Liberation Press Office. But a Los Angeles-based spokesman for the group, Dr. Jerry Vlasak, said he had not received such a claim.
Vlasak said that monkeys have been shown to be poor models for research on smoking and that money could be put to better use helping women avoid or quit the habit.
"I really don't think there's any need to be killing monkeys," said Vlasak, "to help mothers understand the ill effects of smoking on their fetuses."
2007-08-02 13:02:11 EST
"~ Paul Berg ~" <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote in message news:22520-46B1F3BFemail@example.com...
> Now the Animal Liberation Front, an underground group characterized by > the FBI as a leading domestic terrorist organization, apparently has > drawn a bead on Spindel's domicile. > > A contractor on Tuesday discovered graffiti spray-painted on the garage > door of Spindel's house that read, "ALF eyes on you!" His daughter's car > was covered with white foam.
Normally, I argue that there's a ocean of difference between vandalism and terrorism (we've been discussing the latter, for perspective), but this appears to be an actual threat. Who knows... maybe there's a vacancy at Gitmo.
2007-08-02 16:49:00 EST
On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 10:02:11 -0700, "Gattman" <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
> >"~ Paul Berg ~" <email@example.com> wrote in message >news:22520-46B1F3BFfirstname.lastname@example.org... > >> Now the Animal Liberation Front, an underground group characterized by >> the FBI as a leading domestic terrorist organization, apparently has >> drawn a bead on Spindel's domicile. >> >> A contractor on Tuesday discovered graffiti spray-painted on the garage >> door of Spindel's house that read, "ALF eyes on you!" His daughter's car >> was covered with white foam. > > >Normally, I argue that there's a ocean of difference between vandalism and >terrorism (we've been discussing the latter, for perspective), but this >appears to be an actual threat.
_________________________________________________________ April 4, 2005 Burton, UK: In letters to the media, a group calling itself the Animal Rights Militia offered to return one-sixth of the remains of the 82 year old mother-in-law of a part-owner of Darley Oakes Farm, which raises guinea pigs for biomedical research. The womans body was stolen from her grave in October. . .
February 19, 2005 Chino Hills, CA: Animal rights activists vandalized the home of the chief veterinarian for the city of Los Angeles. They threw rocks through windows, and left behind fliers with the veterinarians photo, accusing her of animal cruelty. ALF is suspected in this incident as well as prior threats against the veterinarian and other employees of the LA City Animal Shelter.
January 12, 2005 Auburn, CA: Five incendiary devices were found in an office building under construction. Devices of the same type were discovered in an upscale subdivision in near-by Lincoln on December 27. Official stated the firebombs were capable of extensive damage. Graffiti found on the Lincoln homes included U will pay and Enjoy the world as it is - as long as you can. In a letter sent to the Auburn Journal on January 18, ELF claimed responsibility, and warned of more terrorist attempts to come - "We are setting a new precedent, where there will be at least one or more actions every few weeks," it read. The Joint Terrorism Task Force is investigating.
September 5, 2004: East Peckham, England: Animal Rights activists vowed to launch ten "terror attacks" a night across Britain. An ALF spokesman at a "training camp" for AR activists to learn "direct action" said "Ten attacks a night would be an absolute minimum "Think of the number of butcher shops: at least a couple of windows are already being broken every night and then you have people spraying graffiti on cars to those targeting employees of Huntingdon Life Sciences." There have been reports of at least six serious incidents in the last ten days, including attacks on cars and other property of people connection with GlaxoSmithKline, HLS, and a farm raising guinea pigs for research.
August 11, 2002: Arson by the ELF caused $700,000 worth of damage at a Forest Service lab in Irvine, PA, and destroyed 70 years of research focused on maintaining a healthy forest ecosystem. An e-mail from Elf's office said "While innocent life will never be harmed in any action we undertake, where it is necessary, we will no longer hesitate to pick up the gun to implement justice, and provide the needed protection for our planet that decades of legal battles, pleading protest, and economic sabotage have failed so drastically to achieve." It further stated that all Forest Service stations were targeted, and, if rebuilt, the Pennsylvania station would be targeted for complete destruction.
September 21, 2001 UK: Ashley Broadley Glynn Harding, the mail bomber who sent 15 letter bombs to animal-related businesses and individuals over a three-month period last winter, was sentenced to indefinite detention in mental hospital. Additional court ordered restrictions mean that Harding will not be released until the Home Secretary is satisfied that he poses no risk to the public. The bomber's mail terror campaign injured two adults and one child, one woman lost her left eye, the child scarred for life. At trial, evidence indicated that he had intended to mail as many as 100 letter bombs.
August 16, 2001 UK: One of the three men who assaulted Brian Cass, managing director of Huntingdon Life Sciences, at his home, received a sentence of three years in jail for his part in the attack. David Blenkinsop and two others donned ski masks and ambushed Cass as he arrived home, bludgeoning him with wooden staves and pickaxe handles. DNA on the handles and Blenkinsops clothing helped convict him of the offense.
June 12, 2001 MO: A 30-year-old animal rights activist attacked a "Survivor" series cast member at a workplace safety promotion, pepper spraying him in the face and hitting several onlookers, including children, as well. Police arrested the attacker. Michael Skupin, who lasted six weeks on "Survivor," attributed the attack to his killing of a pig for food on the series.
May 31, 2001 Canada: In a raid late this month, Toronto police arrested two men and put out an appeal for apprehension of a third in connection with animal cruelty charges stemming from the videotaped skinning of live animals. The video showed a cat being tortured and killed allegedly by a self-styled artist and vegan protesting animal cruelty. Anthony Ryan Wenneker, 24, and Jessie Champlain Powers, 21 were arrested. The raid turned up a headless, skinned cat in the refrigerator, along with other animal skeletons, including a dog, some mice and rats, and the videos. Police are searching for the third person seen in the videos.
May 23, 2001 UK: Three men, ages 34, 31 and 34, were arrested for the attack on Brian Cass, Director of Huntingdon Life Sciences. The baseball bat brandishing attackers split Cass' scalp and bruised him and sprayed a would-be rescuer with CS gas on February 22, 2001. One of the men was arrested at an animal sanctuary run by TV script writer Carla Lane.
May 9, 2001 Israel: Shraga Segal, an immunologist and former dean of the Ben-Gurion University medical school, resigned his post as chairman of the government body that supervises research involving animals. Segal received a faxed death threat and threats of violence against his family.
April 27, 2001 WA: Governor Gary Locke signed into law this week a measure that would make it a misdemeanor to knowingly interfere with or recklessly injure a guide dog, or to allow one's dog to obstruct or intimidate a guide dog. Repeat offenses could net up to one year in jail and a $5,000 fine. The measure sailed through the legislature in record time after reports of blind people being harassed by animal rights fanatics, both verbally and by looking for opportunities to separate the guide dogs from their owners.
April 19, 2001 UK: In the US District Court for the District of New Jersey, the US subsidiary of Huntingdon Life Sciences joined in the filing of an amended complaint against SHAC, Voices for Animals, Animal Defense League, In Defense of Animals, and certain individuals. The amended filing asserts claims under the Civil Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organization Statute (RICO) and cited physical attacks on individual employees, death threats, bomb threats, destruction of property, burglary, harassment and intimidation; and also asserts claims for interference with contractual relations and economic advantage. The original plaintiffs in the action were the Stephens Group and its wholly owned investment-banking subsidiary, Stephens, Inc.
February 23, 2001 UK: In a major public escalation of animal rights terrorist violence, the managing director of Huntingdon Life Sciences was attacked as he arrived home by three masked goons wielding baseball bats or ax handles. Brian Cass, 53, bludgeoned with head and body wounds and bruises, including a 3-inch scalp gash, was saved from further injury by his girl friend's screams and the aid of two passersby. One of the Good Samaritans chased the attackers, but was debilitated by CS gas from one of the attackers. Cass, stitched up and back at work the next day, vowed to continue the work of HLS, which includes government mandated tests seeking cures for dementia, diabetes, AIDS, asthma and other diseases. In reaction to the attack, Ronnie Lee, ALF founder who is no longer with the group, condoned the attack and expressed surprise that it didn't happen more often, declaring that Cass got off "lightly." Other animal rights groups publicly backed off condoning the act, but expressed "understanding" of how it could occur. In calendar year 2000, 11 Huntingdon employees' cars were firebombed.
February 21, 2001 UK: Two men ages 26 and 36, and one 31 year-old woman were arrested in connection with letter bombing attacks against at least eleven agricultural businesses. Since December 10, 2000, three bombs were intercepted, but 5 of 10 others exploded, causing serious eye and facial injury to two adults, and leg wounds to a 6-year old daughter of one of the intended victims. Authorities considered all of the bombs potentially lethal. The businesses included pet supply, pest control, farming, agricultural supply, and a livestock auction agency.
February 13, 2001 Scotland: A letter bomb was sent to an agricultural entity in the Borders. Army experts were called out to defuse the bomb.
February 12, 2001 UK: An agricultural firm in North Yorkshire received a letter bomb which was defused without incident by army experts.
February 4, 2001 UK: In an attack near Nantwich, Cheshire Beagles master George Murray, his wife and five other hunt members were assaulted by masked animal rights activists. At least five hunt members were injured by the stick- and whip-wielding attackers. Murray was beaten, kicked in the head and face and his wife was punched in the face. They were threatened with death as retribution for the death 10 years ago of hunt saboteur Michael Hill.
January 31, 2001 UK: A letter bomb exploded in Cumbria in a charity shop owned by the British Heart Foundation. The woman who opened the package was not injured.
January 30, 2001 UK: Two nail bombs, sent to an agricultural supplier in Sheffield and a cancer research campaign shop in Lancashire, were detected and defused by authorities before being opened by the recipients. Both bomb attacks were linked to letter bomb mailings that started in mid-December.
January 5, 2001 UK: Livestock auction estate agents in East Yorkshire are attacked by letter bomb. One female staff member sustained serious eye injuries from the explosion.
January 5, 2001 UK: A farmer in North Yorkshire was injured by nails from an exploding letter bomb.
December 30, 2000 UK: A mail bomb sent to a pest control company in Cheshire exploded, injuring the owner's 6-year old daughter who was helping her father with the mail. The girl was cut on her legs and feet by shrapnel from the envelope. Authorities suspect animal rights activists in the bombing.
October 23, 2000 UK: Two hunt members received death threats and car bombs. Both were on a publicized list of seven huntsmen considered to be "legitimate targets" by the Hunt Retribution Squad." All seven had received threatening letters on September 4, 2000. Amateur whip David Pitfield's van was destroyed by one bomb in South Nutfield, Surrey. The bomb under a woman hunt member's vehicle in East Sussex, discovered five hours later, did not detonate and was removed by army bomb experts. Both bombs were considered lethal.
On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 08:09:51 -0700, email@example.com (~ Paul Berg ~) wrote:
>Spindel, a 55-year-old senior scientist at the Oregon National Primate >Research Center, said he uses mice, monkeys and cultured cells to study >ways to block the effects of nicotine and smoking on unborn children. > >"There's still a half a million mothers a year who smoke while >pregnant," he said. That behavior, he added, "doubles the chances of >children getting asthma. . . . It increases Sudden Infant Death Syndrome >and pneumonia. So we're trying to block some of those effects on >children."
_________________________________________________________ DAN MATHEWS, Celebrity Recruiter for PeTA
"We're at war, and we'll do what we need to win." (USA Today, September 3, 1991)
INGRID NEWKIRK, FOUNDER, PEOPLE FOR THE ETHICAL TREATMENT OF ANIMALS (PETA)
"I wish we all would get up and go into the labs and take the animals out or burn them down." ( National Animal Rights Convention '97, June 27, 1997)
"Even if animal research resulted in a cure for AIDS, we'd be against it." (Vogue, September, 1989)
"I know it's illegal [trespassing], but I don't think it's wrong." (Montgomery County, MD, Journal Feb. 16, 1988)
ALEX PACHECO, CHAIRMAN, PEOPLE FOR THE ETHICAL TREATMENT OF ANIMALS (PETA)
"Arson, property destruction, burglary and theft are 'acceptable crimes' when used for the animal cause." (Gazette Mail, Charleston, WV, January 15, 1989)
Intersting PeTA facts
When ALF member Roger Troen was convicted of burglary and arson at the University of Oregon, in which $36,000 in damage was inflicted, PeTA paid Troen's $27.000 legal fees and his $34,900 fine. Gary Thorud testified under oath that "we were illegally funding this individual with money solicited for other causes, and Ingrid was using that money, bragging to the staff that she had spent $25,000 on the case." Deposition of Gary Thorud, Berosini v. PeTA, at 49-50.
Rodney Coronado, a member of the Animal Liberation Front, pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 57 months in prison for the destruction of an animal diagnostics research lab at the University of California, Davis in April, 1987 (total damage estimates: $4.5 million). PETA sent $ 45,200 to Coronado's 'support committee,' which was a sum 15 times greater than what PETA spent on animal shelters nationwide in all of that year.
http://altpet.net/petition/arquote.html ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ _________________________________________________________ [...] « This manuscript explains the philosophy of a group of individuals throughout the world who call themselves, Liberators. They believe in a revolution to liberate animals and, if necessary, to kill their oppressors. They say such extreme action is needed to stop the horrible human caused suffering of animals and the destruction of the world. They believe that nothing short of a total overthrow of this system will free our brothers and sisters. Please see that this 'Declaration of War is published for the world to read and understand. Signed - Screaming Wolf » [...] http://www.animalliberationfront.com/Philosophy/Legal/declaration%20of%20war_files/declaration%20of%20war.htm ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ _________________________________________________________ I believe that this decade will see the first acts of true violence. Some may be accidental - like a bystander killed in a bomb blast; some will be deliberate - like a vivesector shot in the street. The violence will confuse and divide us, but it will be a temporary adjustment and then we will learn to live with it. -Victoria Miller, ARKI: Canadian Animal Rights Network, and former President, Toronto Humane Society (_Animals_Agenda_)
http://fins.actwin.com/nanf/month.200004/msg00047.html ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ _________________________________________________________ [...] In a war that is fought on on all fronts, as thousands of actions occur every year around the world there is bound to be prisoners. Prisoner support is essential and important aspect of our movement. [...] http://www.animalliberation.net/people/ ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ _________________________________________________________ All jailed political prisoners need our help through phone calls ,letter writing, and faxes. We all must send prisoners letters and information of different events to keep their resolve strong (it get's lonely in jail!). Please, if you are not a regular letter writer, make sure to send these activists mail every once in a while. They will surely appreciate it.
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/veganresist/pow.html ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ _________________________________________________________ PETA's sympathies for ELF actions were apparent in a recent speech by PETA Vice President Bruce Friedrich.
"I think it would be great if all of the fast-food outlets, slaughterhouses, these laboratories and the banks that fund them exploded tomorrow," he said.
PETA payouts to radicals willing to carry out such crimes include:
-- $5,000 to Josh Harper, who was convicted of assaulting police and firing on a fishing vessel;
-- $2,000 to Dave Wilson, convicted of firebombing a fur cooperative;
-- $7,500 to Fran Trutt, convicted of attempted murder of a medical executive
http://www.cdfe.org/peta_fox.htm ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯ _________________________________________________________ [...] The Animal Liberation Front (ALF), which advocates illegal, nonviolent activism, was responsible for dozens of attacks in North America last year. It took credit for $750,000 in damage to offices and equipment at the University of Minnesota, where researchers study Alzheimer's disease and work on a vaccine against brain cancer. Other targets were the University of California at San Francisco, where many data, including work aimed at developing alternatives to animal research, were lost, and Western Washington University, where three dozen research rats and rabbits were stolen. ALF proudly stated that it destroyed one scientist's lifetime of work there. [...] http://www.sciam.com/2000/0200issue/0200techbus1.html ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
2007-08-02 17:42:44 EST
firstname.lastname@example.org (~ Paul Berg ~) wrote:
> "There's still a half a million mothers a year who smoke while > pregnant," he said. That behavior, he added, "doubles the chances of > children getting asthma. . . . It increases Sudden Infant Death Syndrome > and pneumonia. So we're trying to block some of those effects on > children."
And propogate more idiots.
Rev. Bob 'Bob' Crispen
2007-08-02 22:36:51 EST
The kindly Rev. overheard "Gattman" <email@example.com> saying on Thu 02 Aug 2007 12:02:11p:
> Normally, I argue that there's a ocean of difference between > vandalism and terrorism (we've been discussing the latter, for > perspective), but this appears to be an actual threat. Who > knows... maybe there's a vacancy at Gitmo.
And since the group isn't a bunch of right-wing militia guys, and in fact is perceived as lefty (which it isn't, though it attracts a few sympathizers mostly from the left), there's a chance this Republican Justice Department may actually arrest them!
Snark aside, yeah. Vandalism and threats of violence are crimes, and the lowlifes who commit them ought to be in jail, the sooner the better. -- Rev. Bob "Bob" Crispen revbob at crispen dot org Ex Cathedra weblog: http://blog.crispen.org/
Scandinavia\ufffds reign of terror was in trouble when people stopped building thatched roof houses. It was over when somebody invented the fire extinguisher. - Robert Michael Crispen
2007-08-03 01:00:31 EST
Why don't they unleash pit bulls and cougars on them???
Monster under the bed and more BS.
~ Paul Berg ~
2007-08-03 20:50:38 EST
News Report from KGW News - August 3, 2007
Eliot Spindel stands in his Lake Oswego driveway---rubbing his garage with paint thinner.
He's trying to erase the large black letters spray painted there late Monday night, July 30, 2007.
He's clearly angry.
"Angry at, you know, people trying to impose their will on other people through intimidation and scare tactics," he said. The letters read: "ALF Eyes on You".
Grafitti on the Lake Oswego home of an OHSU researcher.
ALF stands for the Animal Liberation Front.
Its web site posted a press release claiming responsibility for the message and the caustic liquid splashed on Spindel's daughter's car, which sat in the driveway.
The press release claimed an anonymous group attacked because "his crimes against nature are particularly vile."
It also issued a warning which read, "Quit the torture industry and issue an apology or we swear we will make an example out of you."
Spindel says he's worked at the Oregon Health Sciences Primate Center for 16 years.
He specializes in finding way to counter the affect of nicotine on unborn children.
They are exposed when their mother's refuse to quit smoking during pregnancy.
"So, you really have a half million babies per year basically being poisoned through no choice of their own," he said.
Spindel says it increases the risk of Sudden Infant Death and asthma in babies.
Spindel estimates 75-80 % of his work is done with cells in culture.
But at some point, he says, the research must be validated with pregnant monkies and their babies, which are similar to humans.
"No scientist wants to do any thing in an animal unless they have to," he said.
"At the same time you can not know if something is going to be safe and effective until it is used in animals," said Spindel.
The attack at Spindel's home is the most recent in a pattern stretching back three years.
OHSU spokesman Jim Newman says activists have struck between 40 and 50 times, including on Christmas day.
He says OHSU has decided to go on the offensive, speaking out about the attacks, and releasing photos and video shot during protests at the the researchers homes.
"Its time to start telling Oregonians about this," said Newman.
"You know there's people out there that actually may know something about these crimes and if they do we certainly hope they'd share it with police," he said.
The Portland FBI confirms an active investigation into the activist incidents, but no arrests.
In the meantime, neither the activists nor the researcher appear ready to back down.
Spindel says he will not stop. "I feel my research can find ways to prevent some of the injury to those children. I think its just too important to allow extremists to stop that," he said.
And, the ALF web posting warned, "---- what's going to be next, Eliot, spray paint, broken windows or fire bombs?"
~ Paul Berg ~
2007-08-03 21:10:48 EST
` Photo of ALF message.
Ronald 'More-More' Moshki
2007-08-03 22:25:48 EST
On Aug 2, 11:09 am, pjb...@webtv.net (~ Paul Berg ~) wrote: > ~ > > News article from The (Portland) Oregonian - August 2, 2007 > > Animal-rights protesters have harassed primate researcher Eliot Spindel > for years, sometimes demonstrating noisily outside his Lake Oswego > (Oregon) home. > > Now the Animal Liberation Front, an underground group characterized by > the FBI as a leading domestic terrorist organization, apparently has > drawn a bead on Spindel's domicile. > > A contractor on Tuesday discovered graffiti spray-painted on the garage > door of Spindel's house that read, "ALF eyes on you!" His daughter's car > was covered with white foam. > > Spindel said he and his family were not at home at the time of the > vandalism. > > Groups of protesters have demonstrated outside Oregon Health & Science > University for years, even showing up at the homes of more than a dozen > researchers. But the protests took a turn last April, when masked > activists demonstrating at the campus carried signs reading "A.L.F. > welcome here" and "ALF vs. OHSU coming summer 2007." > > Spindel, a 55-year-old senior scientist at the Oregon National Primate > Research Center, said he uses mice, monkeys and cultured cells to study > ways to block the effects of nicotine and smoking on unborn children. > > "There's still a half a million mothers a year who smoke while > pregnant," he said. That behavior, he added, "doubles the chances of > children getting asthma. . . . It increases Sudden Infant Death Syndrome > and pneumonia. So we're trying to block some of those effects on > children." > > The Animal Liberation Front typically channels anonymous claims of > responsibility for its crimes to the North American Animal Liberation > Press Office. But a Los Angeles-based spokesman for the group, Dr. Jerry > Vlasak, said he had not received such a claim. > > Vlasak said that monkeys have been shown to be poor models for research > on smoking and that money could be put to better use helping women avoid > or quit the habit. > > "I really don't think there's any need to be killing monkeys," said > Vlasak, "to help mothers understand the ill effects of smoking on their > fetuses." > > ~
Vivisection exists because it creates jobs, not because it helps anyone else.