Dog Discussion: Aconitum Napellus For Travel Sickness Prevention In Sheltie?

Aconitum Napellus For Travel Sickness Prevention In Sheltie?
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THOMAS LESER
2004-05-29 00:51:02 EST
Has anyone here used this stuff for this purpose? I found it listed on
Petsmart's website under their articles section called "Traveling With
Pets":
http://www.petsmart.com/global/articles/article_detail.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=10134198673267885&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302024219&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441775760&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023690&bmUID=1085791062689

"Aconitum napellus 30C is very useful for minimizing fear and upset before
traveling...........................This medicine is very safe to use and
often functions better than a tranquilizer."

Yet they fail to mention that Aconite (Aconitum) is KNOWN for being one of
the poisonous plants. Most of the info I've found about this isn't very
clear because it says for homeopathic purposes it's safe (OK what exactly
does this mean?!) and the next section says this stuff is almost NEVER taken
internally. Such as this site:
http://www.tempestwolf.com/herbs/herbs/a/aconitean.htm
and this site which is more scientific:
http://www.fact-index.com/a/ac/aconite.html

It *APPEARS* as if, like almost anything, that taken in very low doses it
would be safe but is very poisonous otherwise? I don't want to hold to this
statement because I really don't know enough about this stuff to risk our
Sheltie's life yet so I'm wondering if anyone has any conclusive experience
or knowledge about this stuff? The only thing left I can try before this
stuff is something called Pet-Eze made by 21st Century. It contains Taurine
(not sure what this would do) and tryptophan (obvious) but I'm not sure how
much this would help either. Could this be combined with ginger? Here's
the link for this product in case it would help:
http://www.21stcenturyvitamins.com/products.asp?i=290&c=10&sc=13
This is a long post but I hope someone can help, Thanks in advance,

Tom

p.s.
I've tried some minor herbal recomendations such as ginger (not honey yet,
but figured if ginger wouldn't work neither would honey), and psychological
approaches as taking him to parks that get progressively further from the
house. The latter is slowly working but there isn't enough time between now
and this monday to get in enough drives to make him COMPLETELY comfortable.
Don't want to go with vet prescribed tranquilizers or really anything with
possible side effects. Tried ginger capsules from 30 minutes beforhand, 45,
1hr, 1.5hrs before the drive and he still threw up (this ginger tactic was
before the trips to the park 5 minutes away, than 10 minutes away, etc.)



Henriette Kress
2004-05-29 01:17:25 EST
"THOMAS LESER" <leser@verizon.net> wrote:

> Has anyone here used this stuff for this purpose? I found it listed on
> Petsmart's website under their articles section called "Traveling With
> Pets":
> http://www.petsmart.com/global/articles/article_detail.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=10134198673267885&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302024219&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441775760&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023690&bmUID=1085791062689
>
> "Aconitum napellus 30C is very useful for minimizing fear and upset before
> traveling...........................This medicine is very safe to use and
> often functions better than a tranquilizer."
>
> Yet they fail to mention that Aconite (Aconitum) is KNOWN for being one of
> the poisonous plants.

That's Aconitum napellus 30 C. HOMEOPATHIC aconite.

Read up on homeopathy.

Henriette

--
Henriette Kress, AHG Helsinki, Finland
Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed

THOMAS LESER
2004-05-29 03:23:14 EST
Ok, I know this was a long post, but did you read it all? That helps none.

"Henriette Kress" <spamtrap.hetta@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:a67gb01b2tcidghs2rfah61kt2k43uijq9@4ax.com...
> "THOMAS LESER" <leser@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> > Has anyone here used this stuff for this purpose? I found it listed on
> > Petsmart's website under their articles section called "Traveling With
> > Pets":
> >
http://www.petsmart.com/global/articles/article_detail.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=10134198673267885&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302024219&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441775760&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023690&bmUID=1085791062689
> >
> > "Aconitum napellus 30C is very useful for minimizing fear and upset
before
> > traveling...........................This medicine is very safe to use
and
> > often functions better than a tranquilizer."
> >
> > Yet they fail to mention that Aconite (Aconitum) is KNOWN for being one
of
> > the poisonous plants.
>
> That's Aconitum napellus 30 C. HOMEOPATHIC aconite.
>
> Read up on homeopathy.
>
> Henriette
>
> --
> Henriette Kress, AHG Helsinki, Finland
> Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed



Henriette Kress
2004-05-29 03:34:35 EST
"THOMAS LESER" <leser@verizon.net> wrote:

> Ok, I know this was a long post, but did you read it all? That helps none.

See, aconite the herb is _completely_ different from aconite the homeopathic
remedy, especially in such high dilutions as 30C.

So. Read up on homeopathy.

Henriette

--
Henriette Kress, AHG Helsinki, Finland
Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed

The Puppy Wizard
2004-05-29 16:05:57 EST
HOWEDY Thomas,

"THOMAS LESER" <leser@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:WEUtc.4057$oh7.3129@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>
> Has anyone here used this stuff for this purpose?

The Amazing Puppy Wizard hasn't tried the
product nor has any need for them, as all
behavior problems are caused by mishandling.

> I found it listed on Petsmart's website under their
> articles section called "Traveling With Pets":
> "Aconitum napellus 30C is very useful for minimizing
> fear and upset before traveling...........................

Dogs fear situations cause their leader
isn't able to control the environment
and they lose confidence in everything.

That's HOWE COME dogs LOVE their crates.

> This medicine is very safe to use and
> often functions better than a tranquilizer."

The Amazing Puppy Wizard don't know abHOWET
that. SHOWENDS like it's a homeopathic preparation.

> Yet they fail to mention that Aconite (Aconitum) is
> KNOWN for being one of the poisonous plants.

No problem. There's no active substance in there.
The preparation contains only the vibration of the
substance which allegedly stimulates corresponding
receptors. Most scientists think it's bunk. Maybe,
maybe not. Seems to work for some folks. And it
probably couldn't hurt, at least as for toxicity.

> Most of the info I've found about this isn't very
> clear because it says for homeopathic purposes
> it's safe (OK what exactlydoes this mean?!) and
> the next section says this stuff is almost NEVER
> taken internally. Such as this site:

<snip site>

They're probably talkin abHOWET eatin the plant.
Homeopathics don't contain any active substances.

> and this site which is more scientific:

<snip site>

> It *APPEARS* as if, like almost anything, that
> taken in very low doses it would be safe but is
> very poisonous otherwise? I don't want to hold
> to this statement because I really don't know
> enough about this stuff to risk our Sheltie's life
> yet so I'm wondering if anyone has any conclusive
> experience or knowledge about this stuff?

There were several products on the site. The
homeopathic remedy is the safest of all, cause
there's nuthin in there, to the scientific mind.

> The only thing left I can try before this stuff is
> something called Pet-Eze made by 21st Century.
> It contains Taurine (not sure what this would do)
> and tryptophan (obvious) but I'm not sure how
> much this would help either. Could this be combined
> with ginger? Here's the link for this product in case it
> would help:

<Snip link>

They probably can help, they probably won't hurt,
and you could probably find better combinations
of herbal remedies and get fresher products by
doin a little resarch on the WWW.

> This is a long post but I hope someone can help,

Dogs fear shipping car rides thunder separation,
whatever, cause they have no confidence cause
they've been "CONTROLLED" all their lives, by
crating and constant supervision. They've never
been able to feel self confidence cause they've
always been MANAGED.

That's HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy Wizard
uses only non physical conditioning techniques.

> Thanks in advance,

You're welcome.

> Tom
>
> p.s.
> I've tried some minor herbal recomendations
> such as ginger (not honey yet, but figured if
> ginger wouldn't work neither would honey),
> and psychological approaches as taking him
> to parks that get progressively further from the
> house. The latter is slowly working but there
> isn't enough time between now and this monday
> to get in enough drives to make him COMPLETELY
> comfortable.

Right. That's HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy
Wizard will teach you HOWE to do that in WON day.

> Don't want to go with vet prescribed tranquilizers
> or really anything with possible side effects. Tried
> ginger capsules from 30 minutes beforhand, 45,
> 1hr, 1.5hrs before the drive and he still threw up
> (this ginger tactic was before the trips to the park
> 5 minutes away, than 10 minutes away, etc.)

Yeah. Maybe a slice or two of bread would heelp.

From: Marshall Dermer (dermer@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST

>Paul B wrote:
>> While the concept of shake cans is not new,
>> I haven't read any other advice that says to
>> praise immediately regardless of what the dog
>> does next (the common advice is to praise once
>> the dog is doing a desired behaviour or at least
>> stopped the unwanted behaviour), this is unique
>> to Jerry (and Marilyn) and from my own experiences
>> is an important part of the process.

And how do we know this aspect of his advice is right?

Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.

His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.

--Marshall

=================

"Marshall Dermer" <dermer@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu>
wrote in message news:9ihtee$7ib$1@uwm.edu...
>
From: Paul B (NOSPAMpanders@zfree.co.nz)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 00:13:28 PST

Hello Marshall,

The way I view it from my observation of how
my dogs react is that the distraction interrupts
the dogs thought, not for good or bad, just
interrupts, the dog is therefore distracted for
a second and then will either continue the
behaviour or do something else.

The praise reassures the dog that the sound
distraction is not a threat or punishment,
however if everytime the dog resumes a
particular behaviour it's distracted immediately
(and praised immediately for reassurance) then
it quickly decides this behaviour is not fulfilling
and it ceases.

A dog will offer another behaviour in it's place
and if that is acceptable to us then we let it be
otherwise the distraction continues until a suitable
alternate behaviour is offered.

One example, Sam used to jump up on me
when I arrived home, I would shake can to
distract him right at the moment he was
about to jump up, after about 4 repetitions
he tried sitting and offering me his paw, of
course this was fine so I let it be.

While the concept of shake cans is not new,
I haven't read any other advice that says to
praise immediately regardless of what the
dog does next (the common advice is to
praise once the dog is doing a desired
behaviour or at least stopped the unwanted
behaviour), this is unique to Jerry (and Marilyn)
and from my own experiences is an important
part of the process.

> Thanks Paul! He does recommend praising
> a dog for barking, but he appears to recognize
> that this may not work and so distraction
> is recommended as a back up procedure:

"Estel J. Hines" <ejhines@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:w86dna9lBfNZgbTdRVn-hA@comcast.com...
>
>>> Until i read the Jerry method of Bark reductioon,
>>> it went something like this with our 11 month old
>>> puppy "Yoshi"
>
>>> Yoshi: Bark, bark,
>
>>> us: HUSH Youshi
>
>>> Yoshi Bark, bark......................
>
>>> us: Hush Youshi
>
>>> Yoshi BARK, BARK, BARK, .................................
>
>>> it stopped when Yoshi got tired barking
>
>>> We decided to try the Jerry method
>
>>> :Yoshi: BARK, BARK
>
>>> US: GOOD Yoshi, Good Boy, who is it?
>
>>> Yoshi Bark, Bark
>
>>> US: It's ok, good boy Yoshi, We know them
>
>>> Yosh without fail, now stops after we say that
>
>>> I must say, it is so much more fun, when we
>>> can praise him, to deal with things like this
>
>>> Thanks Jerry
>
>>> ps: We are just starting to go thru the Jerry
>>> Papers, and learn how to live with our son
>>> "Yoshi", whom we love very much. --
>
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Estel J. Hines

==============

> There really is NOTHING new about the advice above!

Nuthin EXXXCEPT HOWE IT'S DONE.

> Sound distraction may be understood in
> terms of the more general behavior analytic
> approach as follows.
>
> The distracting stimulus

Like a SCRUFF SHAKE, professor?

>evokes a behavior that is incompatible with barking.

You mean like SCREAMING "NO!" into ITS face
for 5 seconds?

> The dog engages in some other behavior

NO, professor SCRUFF SHAKE.

THAT AIN'T HOWE IT WORKS.

> and then is reinforced (if praise functions as a
> reinforcer).

NO, professor. You don't UNDERSTAND the METHOD.

> --Marshal

ANAL-yize THIS, professor SCRUFF SHAKE:

Here's professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM research
at UofWI marshall "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM
"NO!" into ITS face for five seconds and lock IT in a
box for ten minutes contemplation" dermer:

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

******IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?*******

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works."

That's HOWE COME your dog has OCD behaviors
and is deathly ill from The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME.

And The Amazing Puppy Wizard SEZ you
can't post here abHOWETS noMOORE
cause you're a liar and a dog abuser and
a coward and a MENTAL CASE.
Here's HOWE The Amazing Puppy Wizard teaches
HIS FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual Students to train their critters NEARLY
INSTANTLY:

"The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change, Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Would
Not Obtain Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
For All Handler's And All Dogs, As Taught In Your FREE
Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End
Dog Training Method Manual."

Disciple Paulie Writes:

I've never forced my dogs to do anything, I tell them
they are good dogs and they seem to follow me, once
I told them they were bad dogs and they ran away from
me, now I only ever tell them they are good dogs and
they always are, always.

Trust your dog, ask it to do your request and say "good dog"
sincerely at the end of the request and I bet you'll
find your dog thinking then responding everytime.

A bit of respect works wonders, the same rule applies
to every aspect of the relationship with your dog.

Obedience and affection are not related, if they were
everyone would have obedient dogs.

Paul.

========================

Disciple Paulie Sez: "No One Understands How Wits
End Training Really Works, They Assume It's All Nicey
Nicey And don't Realise It's A Very Disciplined Method
That Deals With Any Situation And The Foundation Is
Built On Trust And Understanding."

Two HOWETA three Pauls PREFER NOT HURTIN
DOGS as The Puppy Wizard teaches in HIS FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual.

Here's two Pauls:

Date: 5/22/03 11:24:35 PM Eastern
Daylight Time
From: p@cfl.rr.com
To: Witsenddog@aol.com

Well, let me tell you, your Wits' End
Dog Training Method works.

My dog, Dasie, Loves to chase chameleons
around the barbecue on the patio. I
used this system on four different occasions.

When she went out today, she looked
everywhere else but the barbecue.
Amazing, just amazing.

I will write to Amanda about the video.

I am really excited to learn more, and
understand. Maybe just a little reassurance
that I am going about it the right way.

Thanks again
Paul

=============================

> From: Paul B (NOSPAMpaulbousie@clear.net.nz)
> Subject: Re: Dog vs cat food (stealing cat food)
> Date: 2001-03-03 22:18:03 PST
>
> It's possible to teach a dog not to eat out of a cat bowl
> without too much difficulty.
>
> My dogs don't touch the food in the cat bowls although
> Roz licks up any bits that have been dropped around the
> bowls :-)
>
> I used a can with stones in it to create a distraction
> anytime the dogs tried to eat the cats food, followed
> with immediate praise. It worked a treat.
>
> The cats bowls are down all the time, usually there is
> food left over but the dogs don't eat it, even if we go
> out and leave the dogs with access inside through a
> dog door.
>
> Paul
>
> --
> Obedience and affection are not related, if they
> were everyone would have obedient dogs.
>
> See the dogs, cats, us and pics of NZ etc at my homepage.....
>
> http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/paulbousie/index.html
>
> Updated regularly (last time 23 Jan 01) so keep coming back!!!
>
> ====================


Here's a couple of The Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
Students tellin you HOWE they done it EZ GENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY and FOR FREE:

"The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWizard@earthlink.net>
schreef inbericht
news:DLpzb.2640$Qd6.1560@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> You'll get ALL the INFORMATION you need in your
> FREE copy of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
> Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual. You'll be
> taught some general exercises to calm and relax
> your dog and give him the direct attention he
> NEEDS in only a few minutes every other day, and
> you'll learn HOWE to use distraction and praise to
> EXXXTINGUISH the HABITUAL aspect of this DIS-
> EASE.

My dog (a 1 year old Yellow Lab) was biting his tail
at the root (Vet said his anal gland was blocked, and
was causing an itch).

After squeezing it, he still wouldn't stop biting his
tail. The vet advised a neck-funnel (don't know wat
you US-guy's call those) so he couldn't reach his butt.

I hate those things, i think they will drive a dog nuts.

I tried the wits end method. (difficult to read such a long
textfile if English is not your native language) Luckily this
is without all the "HOWE's" etc.so at least it's readable for
somebody like me.

The minute he started to bite i trew my key's
next to him on the floor, and praised him (he
stopped biting and looked up when he heard
the sound) I did this 7 times,

after that the tailbiting completely stopped.
Just give the wits end method a try.

One of the possible downloadlocations
is http://www.doggydoright.com/id3.html


Hennie van Dalen
www.chello.nl/~h.vandalen11

----------------------------

"Paul B" <abcde@clear.net.nz> schreef in bericht
news:3ff50d83@clear.net.nz...
>
> Both my dogs at some stage have licked a spot
> somewhere on their bodies and I have always
> managed to train them to stop. In all cases there
> was nothing wrong that licking would have helped
> (Roz has had cut pads, stitches in her belly and
> skin itrritations, all tempting her to lick), none of their
> licking has been due to any allergies
>
>. When I see the dog licking more than normal I
> look at the spot to see whats there and decide if
> a vet appointment is needed or to wait and see,
> keeping a close eye.
>
>To stop the licking I distract the dog and give it
> some friendly banter, when it starts licking again
> I repeat, usually after about 4 times the dog stops,
> for the moment at least, if it starts again then repeat,
> before long the dog has no more desire to lick that
> spot at all.

The same thing worked with my lab licking/chewing
problem too. He had an itch due to blocked anal glands
and started chewing and licking his tail at the root.

After the glands were squeezed, and the itch was
gone he still wouldn't stop. (because the place he
chewed raw was itching)

After some training (roughly the same methode as
yours) he stopped.

--
Hennie van Dalen
www.chello.nl/~h.vandalen11
www.chello.nl/~h.vandalen11/fotografie/doggy-pictures/

--------------------------------------


"Hennie van Dalen" <h.vandalen11***removethis***@chello.nl>
wrote in message news:TlsCb.2895$7U1.7896@amstwist00...

RTFM is age-old computer lingo.... It stands for "Read The F***ing
Manual" ;-) I used the manual and it works
very good!

But it is a long text to read (76 pages printed on
A4-size paper) My lab is 1year old now, and teaching
him something new takes about 30minutes
(depending on what to teach offcourse)

My other dog (a 7year old staffordshire terrier-mix) is a bit
slower in learning, but he is used to me calling him a "bad
dog"whenever he did something i didn't want him to do, or
it might be the age.

Sometimes it looks like Sam (the lab) WANTS to learn
something new: he wants me to bring along the can
filled with washers whenever we go for a walk. It is a
very "humane" way of teaching: the dog is allways a
"good dog", and never a "bad dog"

There is nu punishment or prong-collars involved.

For a fact i tought him to heel in 15min's without
beeing on a leach at-all !!! When he spotted a dog,
he used to run towards it, but now i tought him to "ask
permission" first, and to my surprise it worked!

My dogs never went to puppy-training (lucky for them),
maybe this helped too.

Manual can be found at http://www.doggydoright.com/id3.html

-- Hennie van Dalen www.chello.nl/~h.vandalen11
www.chello.nl/~h.vandalen11/fotografie/doggy-pictures/


"Ted Rumple" <rumplemint@kalbar.net> wrote in message
news:30aa784b.0309290208.135e9ab1@posting.google.com...
>
> Jerry, I am forever in your debt. The system you have
> created for training dogs is absolutely amazing!
>
> I can't wait until the new version is available for human
> children!
>
> Thank you for your service to humanity!

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Fitz
[mailto:donfitz69@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, 28 February 2003
11:53 a.m. To: Amanda@DCFWatch.com; paulbousie@clear.net.nz
Subject: Jerry Howe

Hi, Jerry uses your email in his posts and
I was wondering what you have to say of
his training methods.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Bousie"
<*e@clear.net.nz>
To: "'Don Fitz'"
<*9@hotmail.com>; <Amanda@DCFWatch.com> Cc:
<*2@bellsouth.net> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 5:45 AM
Subject: RE: Jerry Howe

If you have read the newsgroup posts then
you must already have a good idea about
what I think.

His methods are the best I have come across.

They aren't a quick fix but an entire training
concept so if you aren't in for the long haul
then don't bother.

If you go his way then you have to
forget all the other gibberish that
other people spew, you have to
believe in what you are doing, then
and only then will you get the results.

You can't combine his methods with other
training methods, not until you understand
what you are trying to achieve, and even
then I have only ever combined about 2 other
trainers ideas and even then just a snip of
what they suggest which works in parallel
with the Wits End concept.

His methods make you as the trainer completely
responsible for your actions, his methods make
you think and work out your own solutions for any
given situation, the default (the recall) is always
there to get things under control again.

His ideas and concepts teach you to work with
the dog, to develop a team and a willingness to
work together which is surely the best way to be.

His methods don't use force or intimidation but
they do totally emphasize the absolute importance
of pack (family pack) structure, without that you can
achieve almost nothing.

If you are wondering how a dog can be trained
without any negativity the answer lies in the recall,
anytime your dog doesn't follow through with a
request you call him / her to you, since the recall
is the first thing taught and it is taught in such a
way it becomes a reflex the dog always returns to
you, it is a subordinate position for the dog and we
release it by asking for a "heel" which is an "equal"
position.

His methods are very good, his understanding
of dogs is excellent, I recommend his methods.

Paul Bousie

==============
"melisande" <melisande55@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:rLo08.751$0H.535937@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net...

> I haven't quite finished reading the free chapter on
> your website,

It's moore than a chapter, it's a comprehensive,
total, complete, gestalt method to train all animals
to any level you desire.

> but it already worked miracles with our three dogs.

Excellent.

> The barking at the door has diminished so much
> that, well, frankly, we're stunned.

My methods work faster than any others, anywhere at
any price, including the thirty five level of medical grade
static like stimulation devices and pronged spiked pinch
choke collars our "experts" here love so much.

> We were sort of on the same page with you to begin
> with (no crates, no choke chains).

Good. Crates aren't inherently bad, only the way they're
misused.

> A lot of what you say reminds of my dad's techniques
> (he's an 84 year old dog lover,one of those about whom
> people say, "dogs really like him." He's
> never had a badly behaved dog.

Good. I've got a lot in common with folks who are gentle
and treat animals kindly.

> We'd never heard of the noise emphasis,

You mean the sound distraction and praise techniques.

> but the overall plan makes great sense.

Yes, one of my students Paul B wrote an excellent post
recently I'll include it at the bottom. It'll explain HOWE the
distraction and praise process works from his POV as an
experience handler using my methods.

> I did have a question. The hardest part for us to
> implement is the verbal praise only.

Why? That should be spontaneous and in association
with every glance towards you and every thought.

> It's so hard not to pet and stroke the dog (especially
> our seven month old).

Oh. Patting is O.K., only not in conjunction with a
thought or command, as it will interrupt the thought
process and may lock the dog's thoughts on an
inappropriate idea.

> Can you give me the rationale behind that?

It's called positive thigmotaxis, the opposition reflex.
Like if we're walking our dog and want to prevent him
from interacting with another dog, and we pull back
on the collar, that often triggers the dog to go out of
control.

As long as there's contact on the collar, the dog will
continue his original thoughts about interacting with
the passerby. Then because the dog is out of control,
the handler needs to further force restraint, making
communication with the dog's MIND, impossible.

> It will help me modify my own behavior.

Any time your dog is close enough to be patted is
fine to pat him, as long as we're not working with a
command or thought we want him to process.

> Anyway, your approach is amazing.

Yes, it's caused quite a stir here. If my methods are as
effective and fast and safe as I claim and my students
confirm, that pretty much means that all of my critics
are DEAD WRONG, and all's that's left for me to
do is shovel some dirt over them over and let 'em push
up daisies.

> Melisand

===================


On 18 Feb 2003 01:02:05 -0800, javagsd@yahoo.com
(Lynn K.) wrote:

Hell, if Jerry Howe had simply pointed to his training
manual occasionally instead of trying to bludgeon
people with his "method", I might have given it a 3rd
read to try to find something I could use in there.

Maybe not.

Lynn K.

"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie_wilkes@easynews.com
wrote in message news:
4*d@posting.google.com...

I read through his manual and tried the techniques
on my puppy, who looked like growing up to be a
mean-assed dog like her daddy.

Guess what? It worked.

More forceful methods might have allowed me
to control her, but I don't think I'd have the exquisitely
gentle and well-behaved dog I do now.

Charlie

--------------------

"Charlie Wilkes" <charlie_wilkes@easynews.com
wrote inmessage
news: pjaootcg8dgrptuu96383933eqk2jjp7b2@4ax.com...

I read up on rotties, pitbulls, etc., and quite
a bit of the literature suggested I needed to
assert my dominance and "make the dog
earn everything it gets."

I tried this once or twice, just by taking a
stern tone of voice, and the results were
terrible. The pup got scared and just wanted
to stay away from me.

That's why I support Jerry Howe and his
FREE Wits' End Dog Training manual --
that and the fact that Jerry is an all-around
great guy.

The core takeaway I got from Jerry's manual
is this: make yourself the center of your puppy's
world -- his personal Lord Jesus.

Never give him a reason to fear you or
think you're angry. Love the heck out of
him, and you'll end up with a great dog.

This has truly worked with my puppy.

She'll do anything I want her to, if she
understands, because she trusts me
100 percent, and nothing is more
important in her world than her
relationship with me. http://www.geocities.com/viscouspuppy

Charlie

I came here almost two years ago with
an aggressive female pup from hard-core
"protection" stock. The message I got from
nearly everyone was that I need to show my
dog who is boss, draw lines in the sand,
absolutely refuse to tolerate this and that.

Jerry has a different approach, and he
delivered some extremely helpful insights.

Now, my dog is not quite two years old, and
I could probably put her in some kind of obedience
competition against a Fred Hassan dog even though
I've had no experience or training whatsoever except
Jerry's manual and some personal tips from him that
were well worth following.

My Holly is an exceedingly well-behaved pet who
gets along well with everyone. And I believe Jerry
Howe is the best dog resource on the Internet,
bar none.

Charlie

BOTH THESE GUYS GOT DEAD DOGS
CAUSE THEY DIDN'T BELIEVE THEIR
Puppy Wizzzard TILL IT WAS TOO LATE.

"misty" <Momisty@webtv.net>
wrote in message

news:16990-3CAB1F8C-1@storefull-2293.public.lawson.webtv.net...

> I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive.
> I do know she's not here with us. I really can't
> blame anyone here for her loss. I'm the one
> who ignored your advice.
>
> I did it because of how you write/wrote.
> I was unwilling to accept the idea
> that my using a shock collar could have
> any bearing on Peach not wanting to stay
> home.
>
> Up until I started using it my main concern
> had been keeping my dogs in their own yard.
>
> Once I started using the e-fence...well,
> then my concern became how to keep
> them from running off for days on end.
>
> I lost valuable training time becoming
> embroiled in the anti-shock debate and
> the "Jerry sux" tirades.
>
> I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in
> the world now <g> A Wits End> Trained dog,
> one who is completely housetrained,
> doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the yard,
> and doesn't bark all the time.
>
> IOW a great companion and friend.
>
> Thanks Jerry!

=====================

"misty" <Momisty@webtv.net>
wrote in message
news:6946-3B6337A1-329@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net

> We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this
> Spring. Two dogs, two collars We now have
> one dog and no collars.
>
> Peach and Zelda would run thru
> the fence, not want to come back in the yard
> and would run for days.
>
> The last time, Peach didn't come back home.
>
> I used the Wit's End Training Manual to
> learn how to train my dog. She is now
> border trained. A few minutes each day
> reinforces her desire to stay in the yard.
>
> She no longer runs out into the road, I
> can stop her from chasing cats and she
> no longer cringes when we walk around
> the yard.
>
> I can not say loud or long enough how
> much I hate the e-fence and its collars.
>
> If you can't get a regular fence
> then you need to train your dog. I will never
> rely on an electronic collar to keep my dog in
> our yard again.
>
> The price was too high:-(
> ~misty

============

<"Terri"@cyberhighway

> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his
> posts and watching him extract his soggy foot
> out of his mouth! Out of these MILLIONS, I've
> only seen 2 naive childs come forward and
> actually believe in his training manual.

Robert Crim writes:

I assume that I and my wife are those two naive
childs since I freely admit to having read and, I
hope, understood enough of the manual and it's
counterparts by John Fisher and the posts of
Marilyn Rammell to believe and use it.

This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant
barrage of really infantile crap at the hands of
supposedly adult dog lovers.

The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with
the nagging idea that if people like them had been
posting earlier, maybe we would not have had to
hold the head of a really magnificent animal in our
arms while he was given the needle and having to
hug him and wait until he gasped his last gasp.

To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a
dog into good behavior. Naive is believing that
people that hide behind fake names are more
honest than people that use their real names.

Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY,
j.h.) are the equal or better than those that have
studied and lived by their craft for decades.

"Stupid" is believing that people do not see
kindergarten level insults for what they are. Really
stupid is believing that people like Jerry Howe and
Marilyn Rammell are going to just go away because
you people act like fools.

Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea,
and I don't really care.

> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward
> and actually admit to buying and having success
> with his little black box.

I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day
and take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use
and testing. You would never believe the results, so
you'll never know.

> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man
> coming by Jerry's posts deserves to get what
> is sure to be coming to him! LOL!

I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and
Longsuffering Wife and Rollei will just have to get
what we deserve, eh? As Joey (Dogman) says,
"poor Rollei.".......right.

>Terri

Yes it was, and that is sad.

Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)

===============


Thank you, Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
BIOSOUND Scientific
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092
http://www.doggydoright.com

The Puppy Wizard. <{}TPW; - ) >

ANY QUESTIONS, DUMMIES?

,-._,-,
V)"(V
(_o_) Have a great day!
/ V)
(l l l) Your Puppy Wizzzard. <{}YPW; ~ } >
oo-oo




Bogus Address
2004-05-29 18:50:09 EST

> I found it listed on Petsmart's website under their
> articles section called "Traveling With Pets":
> "Aconitum napellus 30C is very useful for minimizing
> fear and upset before traveling...........................

Petsmart hit the headlines in the UK a few years ago when it became
known that it was company policy to put unsold hamsters in paper bags
and force junior employees to bash the bags against a wall behind the
shop until they stopped moving.

I'd expect their preferred method for dealing with travel sickness
would be to wedge the animal's head under the wheel of your car on
setting out, drive over it, and get a new one when you arrived.

========> Email to "j-c" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce <========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html> food intolerance data & recipes,
Mac logic fonts, Scots traditional music files and CD-ROMs of Scottish music.


Nanekitoo
2004-05-29 19:54:01 EST
What she's trying to say is that if you understood homeopathy you would feel
reassured because you would realize that homeopathic remedies are extremely
diluted. Like you say, dose makes the poison and there isn't enough aconite
in this formula to be poisonous. Can I ask, is it more anxiety or motion
sickness that makes your dog throw up?

Nancy S+13

"THOMAS LESER" <leser@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:CTWtc.5142$oh7.4942@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> Ok, I know this was a long post, but did you read it all? That helps
none.
>
> "Henriette Kress" <spamtrap.hetta@spamcop.net> wrote in message
> news:a67gb01b2tcidghs2rfah61kt2k43uijq9@4ax.com...
> > "THOMAS LESER" <leser@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Has anyone here used this stuff for this purpose? I found it listed
on
> > > Petsmart's website under their articles section called "Traveling With
> > > Pets":
> > >
>
http://www.petsmart.com/global/articles/article_detail.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=10134198673267885&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302024219&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441775760&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023690&bmUID=1085791062689
> > >
> > > "Aconitum napellus 30C is very useful for minimizing fear and upset
> before
> > > traveling...........................This medicine is very safe to use
> and
> > > often functions better than a tranquilizer."
> > >
> > > Yet they fail to mention that Aconite (Aconitum) is KNOWN for being
one
> of
> > > the poisonous plants.
> >
> > That's Aconitum napellus 30 C. HOMEOPATHIC aconite.
> >
> > Read up on homeopathy.
> >
> > Henriette
> >
> > --
> > Henriette Kress, AHG Helsinki, Finland
> > Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed
>
>



C*@tiny.net.invalid
2004-05-29 23:43:54 EST
On Sat, 29 May 2004 07:23:14 GMT, "THOMAS LESER" <leser@verizon.net>
wrote:

>Ok, I know this was a long post, but did you read it all? That helps none.
>
>"Henriette Kress" <spamtrap.hetta@spamcop.net> wrote in message
>news:a67gb01b2tcidghs2rfah61kt2k43uijq9@4ax.com...
>> "THOMAS LESER" <leser@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Has anyone here used this stuff for this purpose? I found it listed on
>> > Petsmart's website under their articles section called "Traveling With
>> > Pets":


It wasn't all _that_ long, though the poor formatting made it a couple
of seconds longer to read.

Homeopathy is a whole different thing than herbalism. It's a very
diluted substance that mimics what it's trying to cure, but is in such
small amount (someone else gave the figures) that it's somewhere
between difficult and impossible to believe in. However, sometimes it
works, or seems to, so I've moved from finding it impossible to merely
finding it very difficult to almost impossible to believe.

Try it on the pup. It won't hurt him / her and it might work. Um.
After you read the list of ingredients. If it's just distilled or
'ionized' water and the aconitum, you're fine. If it's got other
stuff, look at the proportions and check them out.
--
rbc: vixen Fairly harmless

Hit reply to email. But strip out the 'invalid.'
Though I'm very slow to respond.
http://www.visi.com/~cyli

THOMAS LESER
2004-05-30 02:39:41 EST
Hi Nancy,

Yeah I understood that the dose is diluted, but all of that information I
came across is on aconite is that it's EXTREMELY poisonous and it's almost
"NEVER" taken orally. Upon further research I've found that it's mainly the
roots that are the most poisonous, so I'm guessing these homeopathic
aconitum napellas tablets wouldn't carry any of the root. I've also seen
arsenic as a homepathic remedy which of course is poinsonous so I understand
the principle now. Well since Petsmart's website and a few others suggested
these work and are safe, it can't be. But bein an engineer myself I have to
know quite a bit of the details about something before being comfortable
with it if there's a risk.

We think it might be both anxiety and motion sickness that makes him vomit.
Mostly anxiety since he's almost 4 now and we adopted him last September.
He spent the first 3 years of his life with an elderly lady and probably
never went on car rides. Ever since his owner passed away all of his car
rides were negative experience. Our "corrective" trips to the park have
helped him a lot, but there's not enough opportunities to make him
completely comfortable before our trip to south TX this holiday.

BTW we purchased a product (tablets) called Quiet Moments, made by Nature
Vet, at petsmart today and he did not vomit on the drive to the park!
here's a link that shows the ingredients:
http://www.naturvet.com/listingview.php?listingID=40 Thanks again for the
replies.

Tom

p.s. My original post wasn't poorly formatted! Although trying to type it
quickly I still had seperated paragraphs and quotes, etc. Common! It
wasn't one long paragraph which would warrant being called "poorly"
formatted. :)

"nanekitoo" <email@address.com> wrote in message
news:0p9uc.21731$mm1.19488@fed1read06...
> What she's trying to say is that if you understood homeopathy you would
feel
> reassured because you would realize that homeopathic remedies are
extremely
> diluted. Like you say, dose makes the poison and there isn't enough
aconite
> in this formula to be poisonous. Can I ask, is it more anxiety or motion
> sickness that makes your dog throw up?
>
> Nancy S+13
>
> "THOMAS LESER" <leser@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:CTWtc.5142$oh7.4942@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
> > Ok, I know this was a long post, but did you read it all? That helps
> none.
> >
> > "Henriette Kress" <spamtrap.hetta@spamcop.net> wrote in message
> > news:a67gb01b2tcidghs2rfah61kt2k43uijq9@4ax.com...
> > > "THOMAS LESER" <leser@verizon.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Has anyone here used this stuff for this purpose? I found it listed
> on
> > > > Petsmart's website under their articles section called "Traveling
With
> > > > Pets":
> > > >
> >
>
http://www.petsmart.com/global/articles/article_detail.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=10134198673267885&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302024219&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524441775760&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302023690&bmUID=1085791062689
> > > >
> > > > "Aconitum napellus 30C is very useful for minimizing fear and upset
> > before
> > > > traveling...........................This medicine is very safe to
use
> > and
> > > > often functions better than a tranquilizer."
> > > >
> > > > Yet they fail to mention that Aconite (Aconitum) is KNOWN for being
> one
> > of
> > > > the poisonous plants.
> > >
> > > That's Aconitum napellus 30 C. HOMEOPATHIC aconite.
> > >
> > > Read up on homeopathy.
> > >
> > > Henriette
> > >
> > > --
> > > Henriette Kress, AHG Helsinki, Finland
> > > Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed
> >
> >
>
>



Henriette Kress
2004-05-30 03:26:12 EST
"THOMAS LESER" <leser@verizon.net> wrote:

> Yeah I understood that the dose is diluted, but all of that information I
> came across is on aconite is that it's EXTREMELY poisonous and it's almost
> "NEVER" taken orally. Upon further research I've found that it's mainly the
> roots that are the most poisonous, so I'm guessing these homeopathic
> aconitum napellas tablets wouldn't carry any of the root.

You still do not understand homeopathy.

You make a 30C dilution like this:

Take 1 part of aconite root (I don't know if homeopaths use fresh or dry)
Add 100 parts water (1C)
Shake at least 100 times

Take 1 part of this liquid
Add 100 parts water (2C)
Shake at least 100 times

Take 1 part of this liquid
Add 100 parts water (3C)
Shake at least 100 times

...
(repeat 26 more times)
...

Take 1 part of this liquid
Add 100 parts water (30C)
Shake at least 100 times

Spray this liquid onto sugar pellets this size: o (or smaller)

Take 1 (1) of these for whatever the homeopathic remedy in question is
indicated.

That's homeopathy. It has NOTHING to do with herbs. And that sugar pellet has
NOTHING of the aconite in it; there was some research a couple years back that
water has memory, I expect that's how homeopathy works. Because it works, else
horses cats dogs and small kids wouldn't react to it.

So. Read up on homeopathy, and don't go all panicky just because homeopaths
use deadly herbs. They do, that doesn't mean their remedies are deadly - they
aren't, not in the higher dilutions. They might put you *out* of balance, if
you take the wrong one, but they won't kill you, nevermind that the starting
point was one of the most deadly plants there is.

Henriette

--
Henriette Kress, AHG Helsinki, Finland
Henriette's herbal homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/herbmed
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