Dog Discussion: Jealous Woman Drowns Boyfriend's Little Dachshund

Jealous Woman Drowns Boyfriend's Little Dachshund
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Nope
2004-05-24 18:07:15 EST
http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/05242004/maine/17782.htm

KITTERY, Maine - Police allege that a Portsmouth woman, not willing to
let a dog come between her and her man, thought she had found a way to
solve the problem. She and a friend faked a burglary and killed the
canine, officers charge.

On Friday, May 21, at approximately 10 p.m., Kittery police arrested
two women and charged them with receiving stolen property. The charges
stemmed from the report of a burglary by an Eliot resident (Patrick
Collins of Eliot, Maine), who said a computer, camera and his
2-year-old dachshund dog Dewey had been stolen from his residence

Shannon Walters, 34, of 5 Nichols Ave., Newmarket, N.H., and Erin M.
Wylie, 27, of 50 Harvard St., Portsmouth, N.H. (603-436-3737) , were
arrested in the parking lot of the Dairy Queen at the Kittery circle.
Police allege the women met there to discuss how to dispose of the
remains of the dog.

Walters reportedly told police that Wylie was the victim's girlfriend
and apparently did not like the dog. Walters allegedly said the
burglary was staged so they could take the pet.

The police allege that following the burglary, the two women returned
to Wylie's Portsmouth home and filled the bathtub with water. Walters
reportedly told police she held the dog under water until it drowned,
while Wylie waited in a nearby room.

Kittery Officers Jeff Shisler, Jay Durgin and Steve Parker, along with
Kittery Sgt. Steve Furbish, made the arrest at the Dairy Queen and
found Dewey's remains.

Already being held for receiving stolen property, both women were
subsequently charged by Eliot Police Officer Thomas Hundley with
felony burglary, and they were transported to the York County Jail.
They both made bail and were set free pending an arraignment scheduled
for July 29.

Portsmouth police were advised by arresting officers from Kittery and
Eliot of the dog's death. Additional charges may be filed against the
two women in New Hampshire.


http://www.thechamplainchannel.com/wnne/3337306/detail.html
Detectives say when they asked Wylie why she wanted to kill the dog
instead of giving him away, she told them that "killing it was
easier."


http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=29130
Walters, who works at an insurance company, told the cops they took
the dog to Wylie's New Hampshire home, where Walters held the pup
underwater until he ``stopped moving.''

Police said Wylie, a hospital secretary (Portsmouth Regional), waited
in another room and had ``wanted the dog out of the way.'' The pair
stuffed Dewey's remains into a garbage bag and dumped it in the back
of Walters' truck, police said.

Rodney Peterson
2004-05-24 19:56:14 EST
Stuff like this is awful, but unfortunately it is common. Usually it's a guy
killing the poor animal, though, not a woman.

"nope" <poopss@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:36b36a57.0405241407.17189975@posting.google.com...
> http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/05242004/maine/17782.htm
>
> KITTERY, Maine - Police allege that a Portsmouth woman, not willing to
> let a dog come between her and her man, thought she had found a way to
> solve the problem. She and a friend faked a burglary and killed the
> canine, officers charge.
>
> On Friday, May 21, at approximately 10 p.m., Kittery police arrested
> two women and charged them with receiving stolen property. The charges
> stemmed from the report of a burglary by an Eliot resident (Patrick
> Collins of Eliot, Maine), who said a computer, camera and his
> 2-year-old dachshund dog Dewey had been stolen from his residence
>
> Shannon Walters, 34, of 5 Nichols Ave., Newmarket, N.H., and Erin M.
> Wylie, 27, of 50 Harvard St., Portsmouth, N.H. (603-436-3737) , were
> arrested in the parking lot of the Dairy Queen at the Kittery circle.
> Police allege the women met there to discuss how to dispose of the
> remains of the dog.
>
> Walters reportedly told police that Wylie was the victim's girlfriend
> and apparently did not like the dog. Walters allegedly said the
> burglary was staged so they could take the pet.
>
> The police allege that following the burglary, the two women returned
> to Wylie's Portsmouth home and filled the bathtub with water. Walters
> reportedly told police she held the dog under water until it drowned,
> while Wylie waited in a nearby room.
>
> Kittery Officers Jeff Shisler, Jay Durgin and Steve Parker, along with
> Kittery Sgt. Steve Furbish, made the arrest at the Dairy Queen and
> found Dewey's remains.
>
> Already being held for receiving stolen property, both women were
> subsequently charged by Eliot Police Officer Thomas Hundley with
> felony burglary, and they were transported to the York County Jail.
> They both made bail and were set free pending an arraignment scheduled
> for July 29.
>
> Portsmouth police were advised by arresting officers from Kittery and
> Eliot of the dog's death. Additional charges may be filed against the
> two women in New Hampshire.
>
>
> http://www.thechamplainchannel.com/wnne/3337306/detail.html
> Detectives say when they asked Wylie why she wanted to kill the dog
> instead of giving him away, she told them that "killing it was
> easier."
>
>
> http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=29130
> Walters, who works at an insurance company, told the cops they took
> the dog to Wylie's New Hampshire home, where Walters held the pup
> underwater until he ``stopped moving.''
>
> Police said Wylie, a hospital secretary (Portsmouth Regional), waited
> in another room and had ``wanted the dog out of the way.'' The pair
> stuffed Dewey's remains into a garbage bag and dumped it in the back
> of Walters' truck, police said.



The Puppy Wizard
2004-05-24 22:32:48 EST
HOWEDY Rodney,

"Rodney Peterson" <oceanstripclubdjrodney@comcasr.net> wrote in
message news:zZmdnXZz_pUlFi_dRVn-jg@comcast.com...
>
> Stuff like this is awful, but unfortunately
> it is common. Usually it's a guy killing the
> poor animal, though, not a woman.

That ain't NUTHIN.

You wanna see REAL animal abuse?

We even got a genuine CELEBRITY,
captain arthur haggerty, hurting dogs
here abHOWETS:

From: Sandra (smalway@sprint.ca)
Subject: Re: APBT puppy nipping a LOT
alt. pets. dogs. pitbull
Date: 2004-05-12 18:55:25 PST

Well my method is quite unconventional but it's worked for me for
years with a wide variety of species. I bite back! Works great
with little pups since they are small and still learning. When
they nip, grab them up real quick, and bite the scruff of the neck
like mom would... not hard, just enough to get them to yelp a
little.

Then a stern NO BITE and release them. If they come back and do it
again, bite harder. Sounds silly and probably to some cruel but
it's exactly what their littermates and mother would do and it's
always worked for me. Sandra
-------------------

Here's research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at UofWI
marshall "SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM "NO!" into ITS face for five
seconds and lock IT in a box for ten minutes contemplation"
dermer:

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function. But,
if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and shake it a bit,
and the frequency of the biting decreases then you will have
achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased; and two,
you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the minimum necessary to
decrease the unwanted biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild forms of
punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth closed for a few seconds.)
whereas "Bad Dog" came before stronger punishement (the kind
discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog" to stop a
behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works."

BWEEEEEEEEEHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

"A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A Resounding Sound Distraction: "When You
Chuck The Dog The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible To The Ears
And Give A Popping Sound To The Dog," captain arthur haggerty.

"Puppy Problems Prevented" CanineHealthOnline. org. - JERRYIZED

HOWEDY People,

This is the typical bullshit you're gonna find from your expert
veterinary behaviorists and expert dog trainers:

"Question: I have a 4 month old Great Dane female puppy who has
the habit of biting and catching the lead in her mouth to shake it
in a playful manner when we walk. I am planning to show her in
conformation and need to break this habit. I rubbed Bitter Apple
on the lead but to no avail. I am using Tabasco pepper sauce now
but it is only partially effective. I try telling her "leave it"
and pulling it downward. Any help you can give me would be
appreciated. "

The world faMOUSE cap'n arthur haggerty replies:

"This is not a difficult problem to solve but"

But our expert can't teach us HOWE to do that without HURTIN the
dog...

" it is very difficult to explain because"

Because he has NO method, only fear force confrontation
intimidation pain and aversives.

" of the many variations and nuances involved in doing so. "

IOW the lying dog abusing Thug needs to couch his words carefully
cause he can only tell us to HURT our dogs, PEOPLE!

" Your use of Bitter Apple and Tabasco sauce is not a bad move"

That'll endear the dog to working with the handler on lead, and
establish trust love and confidence.

" and I would continue to use it."

First use aversives, and if that don't work, HURT THE DOG to be
fair... cause THAT'S ALL our dog lovers know HOWE to do.

Should take a few minutes to train this dog not to do that...
without hurtin him.

" One correction that can be used is chucking the dog under the
chin when she is biting on the leash. "

Kindly enough advice. When done correctly according to koehler,
our good captain's teacher, the dog will not realize you are the
only one with hands standin there.

" Let me briefly explain the chucking technique."

EXCELLENT! Our dog lovers here don't like to give detailed advice,
so's they don't unintentionally mislead nobody noHOWE.

" Cup your hand so that your thumb and forefinger create a
circle."

Kinda like our professor lying doc scruff shake dermer does when
he relaxes on his couch?

" Your hand comes from the bottom up to the lower portion of the
mandible so the Dane doesn't see it at all. "

Right. Although big enough to take your hand off at the shoulder,
they're big stupid dogs and won't realize it's YOU who just
slapped him in the mouth, and will not even know you're his
tormentor.

" When you chuck the dog the sound will travel up the mandible to
the ears and give a popping sound to the dog. "

AHHH YES! Sound Distraction as taught by the good capn!

" Use a verbal correction at the same time. "

You mean like offering to make a deal?

" Do it as many times as it takes to get the dog to stop. "

I've seen Danes not stop, not for over a year till the dog was too
dangerous to do anything with... except by me.

" You will not be able to deliver that correction every time so "

So that means the variable reinforcement will negate the method,
antagonize the dog, and exacerbate the anxiety which is causing
the dog to mouth and chew on the lead to defend himself from being
jerked and choked on his pronged spiked pinch choke collar that is
necessary for these monster sized dogs which I grew up with
training serious behavior problems without hurting them, cause the
loser DIES... when you fight with a dog that's too big to
intimidate and hurt enough to make IT respect your Godlike
AUTHORITY.

" supplement it with a collar correction. "

A jerk and choke will teach the dog you are in control... and the
guy in control is the bum who's slappin him around and jerking and
choking him for objecting to being jerked and choked in the first
place, PEOPLE.

" An obedience foundation will certainly help. "

AS STATED.

" Now this is the fastest and longest lasting approach in solving
the problem. "

That so, capn? You're a liar and a dog abuser and got to get
exposed to the akc and run outta business, good buddy. We'll be
seeing a lot of each other in the very near future. This town
ain't big enough for the both of us, cap'n... I'm worldwide.

Get outta Doge. Jerry Howe, The Puppy Wizard. <{}; ~ )

==================

Borrowed from: "Puppy Raising Tips" from professional trainers,
John and Amy Dahl.

"Around four months many puppies can withstand a correction.
Unfortunately this is the time they start teething and if their
mouth hurts, they may act generally sensitive. If this is the
case, be patient and wait for all those baby teeth to fall out.

In training, retrievers often respond to physical correction
better than verbal correction. While "NO!" is extremely useful if
puppy is about to bite an electrical cord or steal food off the
table, when you are teaching them something
(like obedience) a sharp jerk on their lead or swat with a stick
gets the message across with less emotion and less effect on their
confidence.

If they drop the dummy and act like their mouth hurts when they
are teething, stop all retrieving and wait for their mouth to feel
better. A correction should be just severe enough to get the dog
to respond.

Repeated weak corrections are very stressful to the dog."

END lyingfrosty dahl

If you are interested in purchasing a dignified stick to lay
across you puppy's arse, just send a personal check or money order
in the amount of $30-$40 for a 30"-40" long whuppin stick.

These all natural hickory switches will outlast an entire litter
of puppies! MAYBE MOORE!! Supplies limited, so HURRY! Be the first
in your club to have the hickory switch training aid guaranteed
for the life of your dog (which may be much shorter than nature
intended!).

Ask yourself: "HOWE COME DOESN'T JERRY HURT DOGS TO TRAIN THEM?"

And then just answer: "On AccHOWENT Of JERRY KNOWS HOWE TO TRAIN
DOGS WITHOUT HURTING THEM."

And THEN SAY OUT LHOWED: "IGNORE JERRY, HE'S MEAN TO DOG ABUSERS."

You can get all the information you need to PUPPERLY handle and
train your dog using non force, non confrontational, scientific
and psychological methods, in your FREE copy of The Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual.

Psychoclown wrote:

"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is something you
twisted out of context, because you are full of bizarro manure."

Amy lyingfrosty dahl LIES with a straight face and says:

"I don't beat dogs, twist ears, or pinch toes. For the benefit of
anyone who is in doubt, and who chooses not to read the article
(SHE'D REALLY LIKE IT IF YOU DON'T
READ IT!), there is NO mention in it of twisting ears
(INDEED, SHE PINCHES THEM WITH SPIKES).

I would never slap a dog (SHE TEACHES PEOPLE TO BEAT DOGS WITH
STICKS TO MOTIVATE THEM).

I would never advise anyone to slap a dog (SHE'S A PROVEN LIAR AND
DOG ABUSER, do you expect her to ADMIT THE TRUTH???).

I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, where
slapping a dog is anything but destructive."

RIGHT. She PINCHES, not twists... and chin cuff doesn't mean hit,
according to lyinglynn and avrama....

amy lyingfrosty dahl continues:

"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper wield
the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable dogs may
require you to progress to striking them more sharply.

REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.

Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of as
force-fetching: the ear pinch.

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent that resisting
your will fades in importance.

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to
escaping the ear pinch even get a studded collar and pinch the ear
against that if the dog still does not open its mouth, get out the
shotshell.

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the collar, even
the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will give
in

With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'

Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick.

Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy. You can
press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your thumb; Say
'fetch' while pressing the dummy against its lips and pinching its
ear."

Gotta LOVE koehler. dahl makes koheler look like St. Francis.

We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL

lying frosty dahl sez she doesn't twist:
"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me."

BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!

That's HOWE COME HOWER DOG LOVERS
can't post here abHOWETS noMOORE.

The Puppy Wizard. <} ; ~ ) >

Amy Dahl writes:

"From where I sit, there is a difference. I haven't noticed any of
the contingent who like Koehler trying to force their method on
everyone, or calling others names because they do not use the
method.

I personally believe the Koehler method is a more humane way of
teaching than any alternative I have studied.

And I am not averse to learning--I have studied a number of
methods.

Koehler, of course, stops far short of the specialized work I do
with retrievers, and some of the things in his book, such as
making the dog walk behind the handler on the "finish," are
inappropriate for retriever work.

Why do I think Koehler's method is more humane than others?

First, I don't believe "corrections vs. no corrections" is as
significant to dogs as it is to people. Applied correctly,
Koehler's method uses *no* intimidation, fear, or emotional
manipulation. It is clear and definite, and the handler's actions
are always predictable. The method is masterfully designed to
prevent confrontation or vying for control in any way. It places
high demands of responsibility on the trainer, and takes a great
deal of commitment to do correctly, so it is not for the casual
"dabbler." When done well, very few corrections are needed.

In brief, I think the clarity, predictability, and absence of
emotional blackmail weigh more strongly in the method's favor,
than the occasional brief unpleasantness of correction weighs
against it." lying frosty dahl.

"The Koehler Method of Dog Training" Howell Book House, 1996":

"Housebreaking problems:

Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to relieve
himself inside the house, regardless of how often he has the
opportunity to go outside. This dog may require punishment. Make
certain he is equipped with a collar and piece of line so he can't
avoid correction.

When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to the place of
his error, and hold his head close enough so that he associates
his error with the punishment. Punish him by spanking him with a
light strap or switch. Either one is better than a folded
newspaper.

It is important to your future relationship that you do not rush
at him and start swinging before you get hold of him.

When he's been spanked, take him outside. Chances are, if you are
careful in your feeding and close observation, you will not have
to do much punishing. Be consistent in your handling. To have a
pup almost house-broken and then force him to commit an error by
not providing an opportunity to go outside is very unfair. Careful
planning will make your job easier.

The same general techniques of housebreaking apply to grown dogs
that are inexperienced in the house.

For the grown dog who was reliable in the house and then
backslides, the method of correction differs somewhat. In this
group of "backsliders" we have the "revenge piddler." This dog
protests being alone by messing on the floor and often in the
middle of a bed.

The first step of correction is to confine the dog closely in a
part of the house when you go away, so that he is constantly
reminded of his obligation. The fact that he once was reliable in
the house is proof that the dog knows right from wrong, and it
leaves you no other course than to punish him sufficiently to
convince him that the satisfaction of his wrongdoing is not worth
the consequences.

If the punishment is not severe enough, some of these
"backsliders" will think they're winning and will continue to mess
in the house. An indelible impression can sometimes be made by
giving the dog a hard spanking of long duration, then leaving him
tied by the mess he's made so you can come back at twenty minute
intervals and punish him again for the same thing.

In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this disagreeable
thing cannot be made reliable by the light spanking that some
owners seem to think is adequate punishment. It will be better for
your dog, as well as the house, if you really pour it on him.

Some of the new "breaking scents" on the market can aid in your
house-breaking program. One type discourages the dog from even
visiting an area. Another encourages him to relieve himself in the
area where it is sprinkled. Your pet shop should be able to supply
further information on the brands available in your district.

Be fair to your dog in what and when you feed him and be
consistent in your efforts to housebreak him, and you'll soon
accomplish the job.

BARKING, WHINING, HOWLING, YODELING, SCREAMING, AND WAILING

The fact that you realize you have such a problem makes it certain
you have "reproved" the dog often enough to let him know you were
against his sound effects, even though your reproving didn't quiet
them, so we'll bypass the loudly clapped hands, the cup of water
in his face, and the "shame-shames" and start with something more
emphatic.

We'll begin with the easiest kind of vocalist to correct: the one
that charges gates, fences, doors, and windows, barking furiously
at familiar or imaginary people and objects. A few clusters of BBs
from a good slingshot, in conjunction with the light line and
plenty of temptations, will cause such a dog to use his mind
rather than his mouth.

But you won't make the permanent impression unless you supply
dozens of opportunities for him to exercise the control he thus
acquires. Make sure these opportunities don't always come at the
same time of the day, else he may learn to observe the "quiet
hour" and pursue his old routines at other times.

With the help of the light line, it will be easy to follow the BBs
with a long down to make sure he gets the most from his lesson. As
was mentioned before, eliminating the senseless barking will not
lessen the dog's value as a watchdog but rather, as he grows more
discriminating, increase it.

The dog who vocalizes in bratty protest or lonesomeness because
you're gone constitutes a different problem. If it is impractical
for someone to stay with him constantly (there are owners who
cater to neurosis by employing dog sitters), you'll have to heed
the neighbors and the law and quiet the dog.

This calls for a little ingenuity as well as a heavy hand.

Attach a line to your dog's collar, so your corrective effort
doesn't turn into a footrace around the house until you reach a
stalemate under the bed. This use of the line in the correction
will also serve to establish it as a reminder to be quiet as the
dog drags it around when you're not present.

Next, equip yourself with a man's leather belt or a strap heavy
enough to give your particular dog a good tanning. Yup-we're going
to strike him. Real hard. Remember, you're dealing with a dog who
knows he should be quiet and neighbors who have legal rights to
see that he does.

When the noise comes, instead of trying to sneak up to the door so
you can barge in while he's still barking, which is generally
impossible, respond to his first sound with an emphatic bellow of
"out," and keep on bellowing as you charge back to his area.

Thunder through the door or gate, snatch up the belt that you've
conveniently placed, and descend on him. He'll have no chance to
dodge if you grab the line and reel him in until his front feet
are raised off the floor or, if he's a big dog, until you've
snubbed him up with a hitch on something.

While he's held in close, lay the strap vigorously against his
thighs.

Keep pouring it on him until he thinks it's the bitter end. A real
whaling now may cut down somewhat on the number of repeat
performances that will be necessary.

When you're finished and the dog is convinced that he is, put him
on a long down to think things over while you catch your breath.
After fifteen or twenty minutes, release him from the stay and
leave the area again.

So that you won't feel remorseful, reflect on the truth that a
great percentage of the barkers who are given away to "good homes"
end up in the kindly black box with the sweet smell. Personally,
I've always felt that it's even better to spank children, even if
they "cry out," than to "put them to sleep."

You might have a long wait on that comfortable porch before your
dog starts broadcasting again. When he does, let your long range
bellow tie the consequent correction to his first sound and repeat
the spanking, if anything emphasizing it a bit more.

It might be necessary to spend a Saturday or another day off so
that you'll have time to follow through sufficiently. When you
have a full day, you will be able to convince him each yelp will
have a bad consequence, and the consistency will make your job
easier. If he gets away with his concert part of the time, he'll
be apt to gamble on your inconsistency.

After a half dozen corrections, "the reason and the correction"
will be tied in close enough association so that you can move in
on him without the preliminary bellowing of "out." From then on,
it's just a case of laying for the dog and supplying enough bad
consequences of his noise so he'll no longer feel like gambling.

If there has been a long history of barking and whining, it
sometimes requires a lot of work to make a dog be quiet when
you're not around, so give the above method an honest try before
you presume your dog requires a more severe correction." wm
koehler.

"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<*n@thedetonatorearthlink.net> wrote in
<message
news:a236iv0ngp58gv9jmi818kbmk928rjcokq@4ax.com...
> On 26 Jul 2003 22:14:29 GMT, dogstar716@aol.com
> (DogStar716)
wrote:
>
> >>>Never mind dogman :)
> >>
> >>You too? Some folks just never learn.
> >
> >Uh huh :)
>
> One of the signs of mental illness is to say "Uh
> huh" a lot.
>
> >>PS: If the "trainer" you were talking about isn't
> >>on this list, he (or she) is NOT an approved
> >>Koehler trainer, no matter how loud you scream
> >>otherwise.
> >
> >May I laugh again? LOL! One doesn't need to be on
> >a list to use Koehlers methods or teach his
> >methods.
>
> Let me be among the first (apparently) to tell you
> that not every trainer who uses a leash is a
> *Koehler* trainer.
>
> Sheesh.
>
> This person may call herself a Koehler trainer, but
> if she's hanging 12 week old puppies, she's about as
> far from a Koehler trainer as a dog trainer can
> possibly be.
>
> Again, this is just your IGNORANCE showing.
>
> I can call myself a devout Christian, but if I'm not
> adhering to the doctrine, I'm something else.
>
> >>http://www.koehlerdogtraining.com/patoflearn.html
> >Sorry, the very first sentences make me aware that
> >whoever wrote it knows nothing about PR based
> >training:
> >
> >"Amidst the current (and politically correct) trend
> >in Positive Reinforcement Only training systems"
> >
> >You cannot use PR only.
>
> Au contraire. Many, many posters to r.p.d.b. (and
> many other places as well) *claim* that they use
> nothing but R. You know, the PPers.
>
> And they do it quite loudly, too.
>
> Surely you aren't blind (and deaf), as well as
> ignorant?
>
> Those are hard handicaps to overcome, Dogstar.
>
> >And if you knew anything about PR BASED training,
> >you would realize that. It's not all cookies and
> >babytalk.
>
> There is no stronger supporter of R than Handsome
> Jack Morrison, but I also use every behavioral tool
> in my bag, including R-, P, and P-, because I know
> that even R has its limits.
>
> You'd know that too, if you didn't have your head in
> the sand.
>
> > But that seems to be the battle cry of the
> > Koehler-ites.
>
> The Koehlerites have no battle cry.
>
> They have behaviorism on their side, and that's more
> than enough.
>
> >I don't need instruction on how to give my dogs a
> >proper leash correction as I do not rely on a leash
> >to control or teach my dog.
>
> That may or may not be suitable for your needs, but
> it's not suitable for the majority of dog owners,
> especially since the advent of leash laws.
>
> Besides, after just a few weeks of proper Koehler
> training, Koehler dogs likewise are no longer in
> need of a leash.
>
> That you apparently don't know that, once again
> shows me just how ignorant of anything to do with
> Koehler you are.
>
> >My last two dogs have been trained offleash right
> >from the start, using rewards for what I like, and
> >nothing for what I don't like.
>
> Good for you, and if that level of training is good
> enough for you, fine. But it's not good enough for
> many of the rest of us.
>
> >Again, I'm not saying Koehler doesn't work.
>
> I really have no idea what you're saying anymore,
> because you apparently know so damn little about
> Koehler and behavioral principles in general that
> it's hard to have an informed discussion with you.
>
> PS: It boggles my mind at how stupid you must be
> to keep denying that those certain harsh methods
> are only for LAST RESORT situations, intended
> only to SAVE A DOG'S LIFE, even after I've
> repeatedly given you direct *quotes* from
> Koehler's book saying just that.
>
> It's like you don't even care how stupid
> people think you are, or how devious you are, etc.
> That can't help your cause any. You'd think that
> you'd at least want to *appear* to be honest, even
> if you're not. -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently
> remove the detonator to reply via e-mail


"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<*n@thedetonatorearthlink.net> wrote in
<message
news:spb3ivgh7prvq9omhka0bcif0tfknv6oop@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:52:18 -0400, "Krishur"
> <kris_brock@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Good books huh?
>
> Absolutely. Some are, in fact, classics.
>
> >Which idea was your favorite, the one where
> > they tell you to alpha roll a "dominant" dog,
>
> There's nothing inherently wrong with rolling a
> dog (i.e., it *can* and *does* work in *some*
> situations). Unfortunately, most people either do it
> incorrectly, do it at the wrong time, etc.
>
> >or where they tell you that you didn't hit him hard
> >enough if he doesn't yelp or approaches you within
> >5 minutes of his punishment?
>
> If physical discipline is deemed necessary (after
> careful evaluation), it's much more cruel not to get
> it over with quickly than it is to do it
> incrementally and half-heartedly, which usually
> only invites the need for even more discipline.
>
> > Maybe you liked when they recommend these
> > beatings for housebreaking accidents,
> > chewing/destructive behavior, stealing, trying
> > to get on your bed at night and dog on dog
> > aggression.
>
> At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating
> a dog. A swat on the rump or a check to the chin
> does *not* constitute a "beating."
>
> I'm sorry if you don't agree.
>
> And each of those behavior "problems" needs
> to be looked at in its proper context.
>
> A quote from the Monks:
>
> "We repeat, these situations may merit physical
> discipline. Since no book can pretend to analyze
> every individual dog and situation, we feel
> obligated to emphasize from the outset that
> discipline is never an arbitrary training
> technique to be applied to each and every dog
> for all offenses. We do, however, believe that
> physical and verbal discipline can be an effective
> technique.
> The best policy if you experience any of the above
> problems is to consult a qualified trainer or
> veterinarian for evaluation of your individual
> situation....
>
> "If discipline is decided upon as a training
> technique, it should be the proper technique.
> We feel we have developed several methods
> that depend less on violent physical force than
> timing, a flair for drama, and the element of
> surprise.
>
> We feel an obligation, as responsible trainers,
> to map out these methods, rather than simply
> skip the topic because it is unpleasant.
>
> Dog owners want to know what to do."
>
> In other words, physical discipline is reserved for
> those serious, special occasions when other
> methods have failed.
>
> For example, they do not recommend using
> physical discipline for *routine* housebreaking
> chores -- only on those rare occasions when an
> already reliably housebroken dog is (after careful
> evaluation) deemed to be soiling the house on
> purpose, backsliding, etc.
>
> I'll give you an actual example. Years ago, an
> adult dog was brought to me as an *incurable*
> house-soiler. It was either get the dog reliably
> housetrained or the dog was going on a one way
> trip to the pound. Being the kind, compassionate
> trainer that I am, I was prepared to do whatever it
> took to get this dog house-trained and save his
> life.
>
> After several weeks of more or less traditional
> training, and to poor result, I brought out the big
> guns -- physical and verbal discipline. Whenever
> the dog soiled the house (no, you don't even have
> to catch him in the act), I immediately (but very
> calmly) tossed a leash on his collar, dragged
> him to the scene of the crime, and (using a large
> chair as a prop) tethered him to the leg of the
> chair, with his nose about two inches away
> from the poop.
>
> After a couple of swats on the rump, some
> loud vocalizing, and a wait of about 20 minutes, I'd
> release the dog and then ignore him for a while. I
> had to repeat this process *three* times, I think --
> and the house-soiling miraculously stopped.
>
> The dog went home to enjoy a long and
> contented life with his original owners,
> and I got to feel good about myself.
>
> So, yes, the Monk's books are good ones. Even
> for novices.
>
> Yup, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
>
> -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the
> detonator to reply via e-mail



The Puppy Wizard
2004-05-24 22:35:44 EST
HOWEDY Rodney,

"Rodney Peterson" <oceanstripclubdjrodney@comcasr.net> wrote in
message news:zZmdnXZz_pUlFi_dRVn-jg@comcast.com...
>
> Stuff like this is awful, but unfortunately
> it is common. Usually it's a guy killing
> the poor animal, though, not a woman.

Just when you thought it was safe
to come off of your anti psychotics:

WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg Of Lithium And 50 mg Of Zoloft Every Day
For Twenty Years

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-
depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and
50 mg of Zoloft every day.

I, also, care about dogs and use this forum
to learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
information I have learned.

But if I were ever to post such sh*t, I would hope
that every other reader of this group would be
rightfully outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the easily
understood rules and contributing to in constructive
ways."

Lynn K.

---------------------

BWEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

The Puppy Wizard. <{}; ~ ) >


Here's a few of your pals hurting dogs
an lying abHOWET it:

> > > Jerome Bigge writes:
> > > I do know that hitting, hurting
> > > your dog will often make the
> > > dog either aggressive or a fear
> > > biter, neither of which we want to do.

And then we got, matty! Follow his discussion!
This is what's called, a liar and dog abuser:

> > And neither does anyone else,
> > Jerome. No matter
> > what Jerry Howe states.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

> ================

That's INSANE. Ain't it. So's this, here's professor of
ANAL-ytic behaviorISM research at UofWI marshall
"SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM "NO!" into ITS face
for five seconds and lock IT in a box for ten minutes
contemplation" dermer:

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works."

That's HOWE COME your dog has OCD behaviors
and is deathly ill from The Puppy Wizard's SYNDROME.

"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.

You DO remember KILLFILING MARILYN for
her coment above regarding her success with
The Puppy Wizard's Surrogate Toy Separation
Anxiety / Bed Time Calming / Submissive
Urination Technique (STSA/BTC/SUT)?

Perhaps you likeWIZE recall a pediatrician, Dr. Z,
who commented that his bed time calming technique
was quite similar?

> > You're scary Marilyn.

> > Marilyn must be quite a disturbed
> > individual. I feel very sorry for her
> > and her family.

"His Amazing Progress Almost Makes Me Cry.
Your Method Takes Positive Training To The
Next Level And Should Really Be Used By All
Trainers Who Call Themselves Trainers. Thank
You For Helping Me Save His Life," Kay Pierce,
Professional Trainer, 30 Years Experience.

> > BUT, giving you the benefit of the
> > doubt, please provide a quote (an
> > original quote, not from one of Jerry
> > Howe's heavily edited diatribes) that
> > shows a regular poster promoting or
> > using an abusive form of training.

BWWWWEAAAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

> ================

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."

You think HURTIN dogs and CRINGING
is COURTEOUS?

"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?"

Means the author is a dog abuser of the worst magnitude.

"When you bring home the Bitter Apple for
the first time, spray one squirt directly into
the dog's mouth and walk away. The dog
won't be too thrilled with this but just ignore
him and continue your normal behavior."

You think HURTING your dog is NORMAL BEHAVIOR?

--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"Courteous Canines"

You think HOWER pal mikey is playin with a full deck?

Yeah. When I preload my dog's mouth with bitter apple,
suppose I don't get used to being stupid and cruel, mikey?

Then HOWE do I train my dog if I can't HURT it?

"I Dropped The Leash, Threw My Right Arm
Over The Lab's Shoulder, Grabbed Her Opposite
Foot With My Left Hand, Rolled Her On Her Side,
Leaned On Her, Smartly Growled Into Her Throat
And Said "GRRRR!" And Neatly Nipped Her Ear,"
sionnach.

Oh, THANKS, sinofabitch...

And from terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."

"Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.
Tougher, less tractable dogs may require
you to progress to striking them more
sharply," lying frosty dahl, ethical breeder,
expert trainer, discoverer of cannibalism
in Labradors.

You think a EXXXPERT trainer got to BEAT
a HUNTIN dog to MAKE IT HUNT?

"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.

Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies
HURT all their lives like HOWE HOWER dog
lovers PREFER to HURT THEIR DOGS?

"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."

The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.

We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...

terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."

Sez on our FAQ'S pages at K9 Web you should
knee the dog in the chest, step on its toes, throw
him down by his ears and climb all over it like
a raped ape growling into his throat and bite IT
on his ears, or leash pop it on a pronged spiked
pinch choke collar or pop him in the snout with
the heel of your palm.

"BethF" <dawg@alaska.com> wrote in message
news:ugc7us32ki5fb9@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Frank" <flmarcher@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:d2f1624e.0206101912.2980eb03@posting.google.com...
> > dfrntdrums@aol.comMURK-OFF (Leah) wrote in message
news:<20020610173326.01953.00000597@mb-fx.aol.com>...
> > > >"brianev" brianev@attbi.com wrote:
> > > > I ENJOYED reading your book, and
> > > > AGREED with what you had to say.
> > > > I find it sick to hear what people
> > > > do with their dogs.
> > > Keep in mind that everything he says that
> > > the regular posters of this ng do to their
> > > dogs are lies.
> > > All of it. Every last bit.
> > All of it?
> > Ear pinching?
> > Shock collars?
> > Spiked chokers?
> > The regulars lie more in their denials than
> > Howe does in his accusing of them.
:
> Uh, Frank? Who do you see denying anything?
:
> Its quite interesting that a newbie like yourself
> would see denials when everyone has Jerry
> killfiled and therefore don't even read his posts,
> let alone respond to them.

"Rocky" <2dogs@rocky-dog.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92FEEC097E4AAaustralianshepherdca@130.133.1.4...

> Linda wrote in rec.pets.dogs.behavior:

> > When you compare using sound and
> > praise to solve a problem with using
> > shock collars, hanging, and punishment
> > how can you criticize the use of sound?

> There's nothing more to be said, then.
> You've made up your mind.

> But you've impressed me by mentioning
> that you're a professor with 30 years of
> experience.

> So, can you cite some examples of
> people recommending "shock collars,
> hanging, and punishment"?

BWWWAWHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

> --
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

You think matty's playin with a full
goddamned deck?

matty's NOT a liar and dog abuser.
He's a MENTAL CASE.

Isn't that true, Marilyn?

Of course not, but THIS IS:

"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap,"
professora gingold.

"Marshall Dermer" <dermer@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:a3h5qn$mra$1@uwm.edu...

> >Di,

> I don't believe you mentioned a particular
> kind of training. If you are interested in
> training retrieval behavior than do
> consider our own Amy Dahl's:

> The 10-Minute Retriever : How to Make a
> Well-Mannered, Obedient and
> Enthusiastic Gun Dog in 10 Minutes a
> Day by John I. Dahl, Amy Dahl

You failed to mention your pals the dahls are
proven liars and dog abusers, professor "SCRUFF
SHAKE:"

"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A
Dog I Do Not Believe There Is A Single
Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A
Dog Is Anything But Destructive,"

LUCKY thing CHIN CHUCK absolutely don't
mean slap the goddamned dog, we'd look like
a conspiracy of LIARS and DOG abusers if
CHIN CHUCK DID mean SLAP the dog.

"I don't see why anyone would want to choke or
beat a dog, or how any trainer could possibly get
a good working dog by making them unhapper,
fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying frosty dahl.

DOES THAT SOUND LIKE THE TRUTH?

> just $17.95 at Amazon.com.

> (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
> few regulars here who are either ill-
> tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.)
> --Marshall

Or HOWE about HOWER just plain CRUEL
STUPID and ABUSIVE DOG ABUSERS,
professor SCRUFF SHAKE?

amy lying frosty dahl continues:

"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs
we have trained require much more
frequent and heavy application of pressure
(PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,

This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome

Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher,
less tractable dogs may require you to
progress to striking them more sharply"

BUT NOBODY DOES THAT HERE...

"Try pinching the ear between the metal
casing and the collar, even the buckle on
the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will
give in but will squeal, thrash around, and
direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch"

OR ATTACKING HIS ABUSER.

"You can press the dog's ear with a
shotshell instead of your thumb even
get a studded collar and pinch the ear
against that Make the dog's need to stop
the pinching so urgent that resisting your
will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever
Ready Right Hand, As it catches on, try
using the stick and no ear pinch.

When the dog is digging out to beat the
stick and seems totally reliable without
any ear pinch, you are finished

This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome"

If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly
under the chin, say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps
because the ear is getting tender, or the
dog has decided it isn't worth it)" lying
frosty dahl.

"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap,"
professora gingold.

From: Marshall Dermer (dermer@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
In article <38CC0C43.94E2DDD1@earthlink.net>
r*z@earthlink.net writes:

>> -snip headers etc.

>> Yes. you're right, I really should find
>> the book.. they don't have these books
>> in the local pet stores I frequent, where
>> do you find Koehler?

> I got a nice large print copy from
> Amazon.com

>Richard

Please try Powell's Books in Portland
Oregon. Their URL is:

http://www.powells.com/

Unlike Amazon.com, Powell's keeps both
new and used books on its shelves. You
can order books via e-email.

Koehler Method Of Dog
Training
by Koehler, W R
Published by HOWELL BOOK
HOUSE (0876056575,

========================================================

Here's some quotes and some methods right
outta your koehler book professor "SCRUFF
SHAKE and scream "NO!" into its face for 5
seconds:"

"The Koehler Method of Dog Training (1962). New York:
Howell Book Book House(p. 52-53)."

Hanging

"First, the trainer makes certain that the collar
and leash are more than adequate for any jerk
or strain that the dog's most frantic actions could
cause. Then he starts to work the dog deliberately
and fairly to the point where the dog makes his grab.

Before the teeth have reached their target,
the dog, weight permitting, is jerked from
the ground.

As in coping with some of the afore-mentioned
problems the dog is suspended in mid-air.

However, to let the biting dog recover
his footing while he still had the strength
to renew the attack would be cruelty.

The only justifiable course is to hold him
suspended until he has neither the strength
nor inclination to renew the fight.

When finally it is obvious that he is
physically incapable of expressing his
resentment and is lowered to the ground,
he will probably stagger loop-legged for a
few steps, vomit once or twice, and roll
over on his side.

The sight of a dog lying, thick-tongued,
on his side, is not pleasant, but do not
let it alarm you

THE REAL "HOOD"

"If your dog is a real "hood" who would
regard the foregoing types of protest as
"kid stuff" and would express his
resentment of your efforts by biting,
your problem is difficult -- and pressing.

"Professional trainers often get these
extreme problems. Nearly always the
"protest biter" is the handiwork of a
person who, by avoiding situations that
the dog might resent, has nurtured the
seeds of rebellion and then cultivated
the resultant growth with under correction.

When these people reap their inevitable
and oftentimes painful harvest, they are
ready to avail themselves of "the cruel
trainer" whose advice they may have
once rejected because it was incompatible
with the sugary droolings of mealy-
mouthed columnists, breed-ring biddies,
and dog psychologists who, by the
broken skins and broken hearts their
misinformation causes, can be proven guilty
of the greatest act of cruelty to animals
since the dawn of time.

"With more genuine compassion for the
biting dog than would ever be demonstrated
by those who are "too kind" to make a
correction and certainly with more disregard
for his safety, the professional trainer
morally feels obligated to perform a "major
operation."

"Since we are presently concerned with
the dog that bites in resentment of the
demands of training, we will set our
example in that situation. (In a later
chapter we will deal with the with the
much easier problem of the dog that
bites someone other than his master."

Are we havin FUN yet?

Got a lite, professor SCRUFF SHAKE?



Aleen
2004-05-24 22:37:14 EST
How appalling. Some people would do anything to have a loving dog as a pet,
and sickos like this person go and kill an innocent little dog. Just
disgusting.

aleen, absolutely horrified at this story



The Puppy Wizard
2004-05-24 23:11:06 EST
HOWEDY Rodney,

"Rodney Peterson" <oceanstripclubdjrodney@comcasr.net> wrote in
message news:zZmdnXZz_pUlFi_dRVn-jg@comcast.com...
>
> Stuff like this is awful, but unfortunately
> it is common. Usually it's a guy killin the
> poor animal, though, not a woman.

This'll change your mind:

HOWEDY janet,

"J1Boss" <j1boss@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040524162444.24684.00002252@mb-m29.aol.com...
> James Agnew writes:
>
> > It's not an unlikely claim at all, unless
> > of course I or my relatives are lying which
> > is, of course, something you'd never
> > dream of suggesting :-)

Not here abHOWETS!

> I think it was suggested that while NO may
> not be used as a word to the dogs,
> it probably IS used in your household.

You think so, janet?

> "There's no more butter" or such.

Oh. O.K., janet. You been takin
your ANTI PSYCHOTIC meds?

> > Not at all! These dogs were commanded
> > by voice alone - never a whistle, which is
> > why the whistle was used in training.
>
> Don't believe for a second that turning
> away from the dog makes the dog believe
> that the noise isn't coming from the human.

You mean like when you go "un uh" and
jerk and choke the dog on your pronged
spiked pinch choke collar or shock IT
with a neck pulsing NINE on your shock
collar?

> How silly!

INDEED! We're talkin abHOWET HURTIN
DOGS and LYING abHOWET it, janet.

> Dogs are pretty smart,

Is THAT HOWE COME you HURT
INTIMDATE and MURDER THEM, janet?

> particularly BCs!

A dog is a dog, you swine.

> You don't really think they didn't know where a
> "distraction" whistle came from, now do you?

The IDEA is that it's not INTIMIDATING,
like when you go "un unh" and CHOKE
and SHOCK the dog.

> >...so why not try acting in a warmer,
> > friendlier less confrontational way?

Oh, that's on accHOWENT of James
don't HURT dogs to train them. That
always upsets HOWER MENTALLY
ILL LYING DOG ABUSING PUNK
THUG COWARDS and ACTIVE LONG
TERM MENTAL CASES.

> I think you get a response in line with
> what you post.

Yeah?

> Basically, you posted here with criticism
> of others

You mean, lying dog abusing punk thug
cowards and active incurable long term
mental cases, like yourself, janet?

> and praising the "right" way.

You mean, NOT HURTING and INTIMDIATING
and MURDERING dogs, like you do, janet?

> Only a lot of is doesn't hold up.

Cause you're gonna kick and scream?

> Discussion rather than morality lectures is a lot better.

Well janet, we wouldn't want MORALITY
to interfere with ETHICS and PRINCIPLES.

WOULD WE.

> Janet Boss
> http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com/
> http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfriendsobedience

Here's you burnin a dog with a "neck
muscle pulsing NINE" on your Innoteck
shock collar":

"J1Boss" <j1boss@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828.07753.00000001@mb-m18.aol.com...
>
> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
>
> Janet Boss

"sionnach" <rhyfelwr@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "J1Boss" <j1boss@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916.10096.00001938@mb-m17.aol.com...
>
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.

An INSENSITIVE DOG???

> > I can't remember what model of Innotek I have, but
> > I had apointer ignore a neck-muscle-pulsing 9.

Jerking choking and shockin and lockin dogs
in boxes and ignoring their cries makes their
dogs go "EWWWW" but they don't NOTICE
EXXXCEPT to spray BINACA in their eyes
and jerk and choke them on pronged spiked
pinch choke collars and shock and spray MOORE
aversives in their faces.

Do you think the citronella collar is CRUEL cause
the SMELL LINGERS after the dog's been sprayed
in the face and the dog won't know HOWE COME
IT was MACED?

> > My dogs are not human children wearing
> > fur- they are DOGS.

They're DUMB ANIMALS they HURT and MURDER.

"J1Boss" <j1boss@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040512151017.22325.00000859@mb-m19.aol.com...
> Leah wrote:
>
> >Ian
> >Dunbar has me convinced that (1) a dog
> > who lunges and bites and doesn't even
> >HURT is not a dangerous dog,
>
> Interesting. I just read someone else's take
> on the same seminar, and let's say they had
> a very different opinion than yours.
>
> I also disagree with his opinion. dangerous
> comes in many forms.
>
> PLEASE Leah - read, listen and don't jump
> on any "I am goD" bandwagons. Take
> all information for what it is - opinion.
>
> Janet Boss
> http://bestfriendsdogobedience.com/
> http://photos.yahoo.com/bestfriendsobedience

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20

g*7@my-deja.com wrote:
> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.

Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think
a prong works better than a choke with less chance
of injury to the dog in this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion
to cats, but should be used under the direction
of a trainer who knows how to instruct the owner
in their proper use.

Electronics can take the form of shock, sonic or
citronella collars. At that time the owner will train
with electronics instead of food or whatever other
reward system was being used."

8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the
dog. Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog.
I think a prong works better than a choke with less
chance of injury to the dog in this situation.

Have the dog in a sit-stay next to you with most
of the slack out of the leash and let the cat walk
through the room and up to the dog if it wishes
(this is why you have the dog muzzled).

If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.

This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."

BWWWEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

Lynn K. wrote:

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.

---------------------------------

And then DENIES it:

Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
news:<04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...

> >> Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
> >> quotes are true. In the posts below you
> >> take responsibility for making those calls.
> >> In your post above, you state you do not
> >> make those calls.
> >>Which one is it?
> :
> > Nope, Bob. Mikey isn't a stupid man and he
> > knows well the difference between:
> >
> > 1. A non-shelter rescue group that occasionally
> > has to put a dog down for health or temperament
> > reasons. (Yep, I'm involved with that.)
> :
> > 2. A trainer hired to evaluate a dog who might
> > determine the dog is potentially dangerous.
> > (Yes, again, I've been in that position.)
> :
> > 3. Public pounds that routinely kill stray and
> > abandoned animals. (Nope, I only pull animals
> > from those pounds into the private rescue programs.)
>
> -----------------------------------

And then DENIES GETTIN BAGGED FOR LYING!

THAT'S HOWE COME we KNOW she's
a MENTAL CASE.

And HERE'S HOWE COME we PROVE IT:

WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-
depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and
50 mg of Zoloft every day.

I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to
learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
information I have learned.

But if I were ever to post such sh*t, I would hope that
every other reader of this group would be rightfully
outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the easily
understood rules and contributing to in constructive
ways."

Lynn K.

-----------------------------------------

LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar
conversation on Mental problems. LYNN AND
LOIS Almost 50 years on mental illness medications
combined

-----------------------------------------

> But I think what Lois was referring to was the fact that
> Darlene actually stated at some point that she was
> bipolar--and, IIRC, that meds did not work for her--so
> she was prone to major-league ups and downs and
> sudden enthusiasms..

"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her - she wouldn't
take them. I particularly remember a comment she
made about scarey side effects of Lithium.

Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think I'm qualified to
say that the very low risk of any side effect is far less
frightening than the very real dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------

LYNN K. and the UNQUIET MIND

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com) Subject: Re: Where is
Darlene? Date: 1999/09/03

BoxHill wrote:

> I know I am totally off topic here, but have you read
> "The Unquiet Mind"?

Yeah. It's interesting, but kind of watered down for the
mass market, if you know what I mean. There's really
quite a lot of good work out there and decent research.

Thank God.

Lynn K.
---------------------------------------

MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION "KUCKOO!!
CUCKOO!!!" MOTHER (LOIS E.) 22 YEARS on
TRICYCLICS, DAUGHTER BIPOLAR...

YOU DO THE MATH

"What's really terrific, is now days you can
say proudly, 'I take anti-depressives'"

-------------------------------------

From: Gary & lois Edwards (garyl@bmi.net)
Subject: Re: Whereis Darlene? Date: 1999/09/02

BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS

"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics for
about 22 years. Been there, done that, have the t-
shirt to prove it. What's really terrific, is now days
you can say proudly, "I take anti-depressives".

Back when I started taking them it was seen as
something shameful. If you cut your leg off, and
were lying there with a bleeding stump, you'd
never let the word depressed, pass your lips, or
the doc's would say, "You're depressed, on
medication? Well, can't have any pain meds.....
you could become addicted."

The good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt
who's father locked her in her room back in the
twenties because she was simple. A shame that
medication probably would have helped
her live a normal life.

No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
personality, she has a way of making grandiose
plans when at the top of her manic cycle....as
does my daughter. I wasn't saying that anyone
with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."

Lois E.

-------------------------------------


From: metta (kelly_marsops_NoSpam@msn.com)
Subject: choices.
Newsgroups: alt.support.dissociation
Date: 2004-05-12 15:26:35 PST

something new happened this week. or maybe
not new, but newly noticed. had a f*ght with SO.

and felt bad, at fault, responsible for causing him
to be mad with me. the usually negative stuff. and
i thought, i should let this go. it's not my fault, i'm
not bad, it's just a little thing, not important (this is
the "new" me, things i learned from it, from meditation,
from growing up...).

and then i decided that no, i wanted to slip. i wanted
to screw up and be bad. i wanted, no, needed to be
bad. to be responsible. to be at fault for everything.
i needed to feel helpless, hopeless, pointless.

i ached to feel that black ball of pain taking over my
heart again. it's been so long. i wanted to be
destructive, to me and everything around me.

i took lots of klonopin, lots of soma, drank much
wine. slept on the couch, couldn't be near SO,
couldn't think of the good things in my life.

needed to keep this badness around me.

woke up, had a test to take, so took test and passed,
but still felt icky, wanted to go home and take more
klonopin. but decided instead to have lunch with a
friend. because i didn't want to feel bad anymore.
didn't want to e responsible for bad feelings. didn't
want to make myself hurt more.

so went to lunch and did some breathing and felt
better. and now feel back to normal, everything is
fine, life is happy and good and my mood is wonderful.

but i keep thinking about that moment of choice.
i *knew* i was choosing to feel bad. i could have
stopped it. i could have been smart and banish the
negative thoughts. but i didn't want to.

this is new for me, being healthy, happy, not blaming
me for everything that goes bad. and sometimes i feel like i
don't know how to be healthy. i don't know how to
be "sane". and it would be so much easier to just slip
back into destructive habits. to be bad me again.

i'm scared that i'll make that choice again. but not
choose to come back to my "good" life. i'm scared
i'll stay bad me. why did i need to be bad so much?

i think this has to do with m*thr's day. stupid stupid day.

*sigh*

-kelly

--
did we expect that life was ever fair, my god...
i sowed a field of rose and reaped a whipping rod

=====================

> the female is older, is new to the pack, and
> she saw the young male dominating your arm.

THAT'S INSANE.

> so she jumped in and showed him who
> was really boss. :-)

THAT'S INSANE.

> about the ego thing...

THAT'S PART OF YOUR INSANITY.

>i doubt your dog feels "violated". he's probably
> just bumed that he's not the alpha dog in the pack.

THAT'S INSANE.

> he'll get used to it.

No. He'll FIGHT, like your dogs do.

> -kelly


From: culprit (culprit@flashmail.com)
Subject: Re: dominance
Date: 2004-03-09 10:41:22 PST

"Tricia9999" <tricia9999@aol.com>
wrote in message
news:20040309115155.29635.00001093@mb-m21.aol.com...
>
> Very late to this - I don't think you have
> dominance struggles. You have 2 Pits
> that are reaching maturity and doing
> what they are hardwired to do. You will
> have to manage the household carefully.
> And get a break stick to have on hand.

and i don't think you've seen my dogs interact.
just because they're pits doesn't mean that every
little snark is automatically hardwired fighting instinct.

it just means that i have to be more careful to
prevent such snarks. and since i've removed
the resources they're being possessive of, the
snarky behavior has decreased dramatically
(well ok, completely).

if they were just fighting to fight, as you suggest,
they certainly wouldn't need a toy as an excuse,
would they?

and if they were actually fighting, as opposed
to just snarking over toys, i'd have had a much
more serious situation on hand, and wouldn't
have been able to separate them so easily, and
with so few injuries to the dogs.

don't worry, of course i'll manage the household
carefully, there's a reason they're never alone
together, and now they don't even play outside
together unless there are two adults present in
the yard with them. i don't deny their heritage,
but i hardly think it precludes normal adolescent
power shifts in the pack structure.

-kelly

================

And THAT'S HOWE COME it's important
to KNOW you're a MENTAL CASE.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >


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