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Kilikini
2004-05-10 15:07:17 EST
Sorry in advance for the long post & sorry for cross-posting, but I need
some help...........

Is it possible for a dog to have ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder)? I have
an 11 month old Aussie who is very eager to learn, is very smart, but also
very dominant. When I try to teach him, let's say "stay", for instance, I
tell him to sit (which he does very well), I put my hand up with my palm
towards him and say stay, while holding his favorite ball in my other hand,
backing up the entire time. He'll watch the ball for a second, but if a
bird comes by, a plane goes overhead, etc., he jumps up to go investigate,
ignoring the ball and me. If I call his name and wave his ball at him and
tell him to come, whatever object he was previously focusing his attention
on gets ignored and he lunges for his ball.

His attention span was much, much, much worse as a little puppy so either
he's outgrowing distractions or getting used to them.

When he *is* focused, however, it's downright impossible to get his
attention. If a person walks by, a strange cat strolls along, or a car
pulls up in the driveway and I call his name to get him away from the front
gate to stop barking, it's like he can't hear or see me! I have to
repeatedly smack my hands together loudly while calling his name to break
his concentration; grabbing his collar does nothing.

If I can run him two or three times a day in a park or on the beach, he
seems a little more focused, but that's not always possible - I don't have a
car to take him to those places. I can only walk him on a leash (one
downside to the walking is his extremely light blue eyes - they're very
sensitive to the heat and sun, so he can only go out in very early morning
or later evening). When he returns from a short 15 min. walk, he's so
overheated, tongue flapping, that I have to water him down with the hose.
Light blue eyes and long fur don't go well in a hot, bright, sunshiney state
like Hawaii, but here he is, what are you gonna do?

He's a very sweet, affectionate guy. He'll lay on you and you can shift him
in any position on your lap and he'll hang there for a moment. You can flip
him on his back and pat his front paws together to play patty cake and he'll
let you. He has large tongue-flapping smiles and his tail wags all the
time. When you talk to him, he'll cock his head and give the appearance of
listening, but, again, until something "better" distracts him.

He is very dominant. If I scold him for chasing the cats, he'll bark at me
back. When I say "no", he'll bark. I say "no", he barks again. It's like
little kids going, no, yes, no, yes, no, yes. He barges past you when
you're going thru a door so that he makes it thru first, same with hallways.
And if he isn't getting immediate attention, he claws you with his paws
until you look at him and acknowledge him. Sometimes it really hurts -
especially when you're sleeping.

I've heard our local shelter has obedience classes, but again, I don't have
a car and the shelter is a 30 min. car ride away. I'm just wondering if
anyone has any ideas to help me tame the wild beast! LOL. I've tried
non-threatening methods that have worked very well on my three other dogs
that I've had previous to this guy, but he's got a mind of his own. He's
unique. He's stubborn, he doesn't forget things, he's dominant, but he's
such a little lover.

Has anyone else ever had similar issues and if so, how did you conquer
them??? I want to make him a peaceful part of our family existence. Right
now, he's the wheel in that shopping cart that always wants to go the
opposite way.

kili
--
"Beer, the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems." - - Homer
Simpson



T*@dog-play.com
2004-05-10 17:07:30 EST
In rec.pets.dogs.behavior kilikini <kilikini1@nospamhotmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry in advance for the long post & sorry for cross-posting, but I need
> some help...........

> Is it possible for a dog to have ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder)? I have
> an 11 month old Aussie who is very eager to learn, is very smart, but also
> very dominant.

I'm not sure how you are identifying the quality "very dominant".

> When I try to teach him, let's say "stay", for instance, I

"Stay" has its uses, I think, but not in what you are trying to do.
Instead your dog should learn that one command is to be carried out until
you either give a new one, or release him to play.

> tell him to sit (which he does very well),

Sounds like what you have taught him is that "sit" is an action rather
than a position. If you have taught "sit" only from when he is standing
then his concept may be that "sit" means the action of putting his butt
on the ground. Start working on "sit" from lying down, as well as from
standing. And give the command "sit" when he is already sitting. Praise
if he continues to sit. Teach him "sit" whether you are at his side, in
front, to the left or to the right.

> I put my hand up with my palm
> towards him and say stay, while holding his favorite ball in my other hand,
> backing up the entire time.

Stop backing up. Don't give any command. There is no separate
command, merely a learning that sit continues until told otherwise. First
simply turn 1/4 toward him and praise him for holding his "sit". Take
one step away. Turn and face him. In other words you first need to help
him understand that the command continues. While standing next to him
drop a ball. Praise him for holding his sit, then release him to play
with the ball. As he grows to understand that sit continues you will
increase the places you move to and the distance you mover from him.
Before you ever take more than three steps away you should be able to
step to all four sides without him moving (i.e. turn 1/4 so you face the
left side, then step directly in front, then to his right, then to his
rear, then back to the front). Before you get more than five steps from
him you should be able to walk around him. You need to build his ability
to be patient. You need to help him understand what you want by taking
it in small enough pieces that he can succeeed.

> He'll watch the ball for a second, but if a
> bird comes by, a plane goes overhead, etc., he jumps up to go investigate,
> ignoring the ball and me. If I call his name and wave his ball at him and
> tell him to come, whatever object he was previously focusing his attention
> on gets ignored and he lunges for his ball.

Sounds like a perfectly normal adolescent.

> His attention span was much, much, much worse as a little puppy so either
> he's outgrowing distractions or getting used to them.

> When he *is* focused, however, it's downright impossible to get his
> attention. If a person walks by, a strange cat strolls along, or a car
> pulls up in the driveway and I call his name to get him away from the front
> gate to stop barking, it's like he can't hear or see me! I have to
> repeatedly smack my hands together loudly while calling his name to break
> his concentration; grabbing his collar does nothing.

Sounds like a perfectly normal adolescent. Dogs vary. What does the
instructor at your classes you are taking say about this? You ARE taking
classes, right? The biggest benefit of taking a class from an
experienced instructor is that the instructor can (1) help you sort out
when the problem is YOU vs the dog (2) use their experience to creatively
solve problems. Your ability to work with your dog will improve most
rapidly if you learn *concepts* instead of recipes. And learning these
concepts will be far easier if you can get instant feedback from someone
who can see what you are doing.

> If I can run him two or three times a day in a park or on the beach, he
> seems a little more focused, but that's not always possible - I don't have a
> car to take him to those places. I can only walk him on a leash (one
> downside to the walking is his extremely light blue eyes - they're very
> sensitive to the heat and sun, so he can only go out in very early morning
> or later evening).

Get him some doggles.
http://www.doggles.com/

Use sunscreen for parts not adquately protected by fur.
There are spray on sun screens that are appropriate.
http://furlongspetsupply.com/dog_sunscreen.htm
but I've found human sunscreens that are also appropriate.

> When he returns from a short 15 min. walk, he's so
> overheated, tongue flapping, that I have to water him down with the hose.
> Light blue eyes and long fur don't go well in a hot, bright, sunshiney state
> like Hawaii, but here he is, what are you gonna do?

Consider discussing with a groomer relieving him of his excess coat while
leaving him enough for sun protection.

> He's a very sweet, affectionate guy. He'll lay on you and you can shift him
> in any position on your lap and he'll hang there for a moment. You can flip
> him on his back and pat his front paws together to play patty cake and he'll
> let you. He has large tongue-flapping smiles and his tail wags all the
> time. When you talk to him, he'll cock his head and give the appearance of
> listening, but, again, until something "better" distracts him.

> He is very dominant. If I scold him for chasing the cats, he'll bark at me
> back. When I say "no", he'll bark. I say "no", he barks again. It's like
> little kids going, no, yes, no, yes, no, yes.

That's not "dominant" that's adolescent.

> He barges past you when
> you're going thru a door so that he makes it thru first, same with hallways.

That's not "dominant" that's adolescent.

> And if he isn't getting immediate attention, he claws you with his paws
> until you look at him and acknowledge him. Sometimes it really hurts -
> especially when you're sleeping.

Why would you allow this to happen? Consider what he wants - attention,
and what you give him - attention. On the first pushy move deprive him
of what he wants. Take him quickly, without speaking or scolding, to a
quiet room. In that quiet room you will have attached a short length of
chain to something he can't move, and placed where he can't reach
anything fun. A wall is ideal. Leave him for about ten minutes. Too
long won't help, the connection to the behavior will have been lost. Too
short and there won't be a lesson. When you release him again do not
speak or interact. Just release and go about your business. Repeat as
necessary until he understands that no one likes a bully and it won't get
him what he wants.

> I've heard our local shelter has obedience classes, but again, I don't have
> a car and the shelter is a 30 min. car ride away. I'm just wondering if
> anyone has any ideas to help me tame the wild beast!

Network and find someone who also needs classes. Find a trainer nearer
to you. Get video tapes on manners training. Although hes a bit old for
it "Sirius puppy training" has good concepts you can learn from. Ian
Dunbar has other tapes where you can SEE and get useful information.
Also
The Dominant Dog (Video)
John Rogerson
Contact: Cheryl L. Trotter
(713)579-7131
http://www.clickersolutions.com/blog/blog12.htm

> LOL. I've tried
> non-threatening methods that have worked very well on my three other dogs
> that I've had previous to this guy, but he's got a mind of his own. He's
> unique. He's stubborn, he doesn't forget things, he's dominant, but he's
> such a little lover.

> Has anyone else ever had similar issues and if so, how did you conquer
> them??? I want to make him a peaceful part of our family existence. Right
> now, he's the wheel in that shopping cart that always wants to go the
> opposite way.

Spend more time with books that explain concepts e.g.
Excel-Erated Learning, By Pamela Reid
Smart Trainers, Brilliant Dogs by Janet R Lewis

--
Diane Blackman
http://dog-play.com/
http://dog-play.com/shop2.html

Suja
2004-05-10 17:14:56 EST

kilikini wrote:

> Is it possible for a dog to have ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder)?

I suppose. However, inability to concentrate in dogs is generally a
sign of youth.

> very dominant. When I try to teach him, let's say "stay", for instance, I
> tell him to sit (which he does very well), I put my hand up with my palm
> towards him and say stay, while holding his favorite ball in my other hand,
> backing up the entire time.

When you initially teach any command, do it in the least distracting
environment you can find, for example, inside the house. After the dog
has the concept down in one environment, move to another, with a little
more distractions. Dogs are not good at generalizing, so just because
they understand a command in one situation does not mean that they also
understand it when the situation changes. One more thing. With a
command like Stay, it is important that you not work on both the time
and distance at the same time. Work on having him hold the stay when
you are right there. Increase the time slowly. Then, work on having
him hold the stay when you are a foot away, then 5 ft. away, etc.
Having the dog holding a stay for 30 minutes while you are out of sight
(for example) is something you work towards, and you can't expect the
puppy to learn it right away.

> His attention span was much, much, much worse as a little puppy so either
> he's outgrowing distractions or getting used to them.

Puppies have *short* attention spans. They get longer as they mature.
It is important that you keep the training time short and fun. Instead
of doing two 10 minute sessions, you might want to do four 5 minute
sessions, for example. The idea is for you to always finish up the
training sessions on a positive note, while the puppy is succeeding, and
before he gets tired or distracted.

> When he *is* focused, however, it's downright impossible to get his
> attention. If a person walks by, a strange cat strolls along, or a car
> pulls up in the driveway and I call his name to get him away from the front
> gate to stop barking, it's like he can't hear or see me! I have to
> repeatedly smack my hands together loudly while calling his name to break
> his concentration; grabbing his collar does nothing.

Two things. Do NOT give commands you cannot enforce. Do NOT train in
such distracting environments when your pup is obviously not ready for it.

> If I can run him two or three times a day in a park or on the beach, he
> seems a little more focused, but that's not always possible - I don't have a
> car to take him to those places.

You have a young puppy of a VERY energetic breed. He needs lots of
exercise, both physical and mental. Can't you take him for walks right
in the neighborhood where you live? If you have access to any enclosed
space (baseball field, tennis/basketball courts, a friend's fenced in
yard), you can use that for giving him a little running around time.
Just be careful if you use something like tennis courts - the hard
surface can be rough on their joints.

> I can only walk him on a leash (one
> downside to the walking is his extremely light blue eyes - they're very
> sensitive to the heat and sun, so he can only go out in very early morning
> or later evening).

That's the first time I've heard anything like that. Have no idea if
light eyes are more sensitive to light and heat.

> When he returns from a short 15 min. walk, he's so
> overheated, tongue flapping, that I have to water him down with the hose.

Make sure to take plenty of water with you when you go for walks. You
might want to consider clipping his belly ( I have no experience with
this, just know of other people who do so) to keep him more comfortable.
If it is possible for you to take him swimming, it's great exercise,
and it will keep him cool.

> He is very dominant. If I scold him for chasing the cats, he'll bark at me
> back. When I say "no", he'll bark. I say "no", he barks again. It's like
> little kids going, no, yes, no, yes, no, yes. He barges past you when
> you're going thru a door so that he makes it thru first, same with hallways.
> And if he isn't getting immediate attention, he claws you with his paws
> until you look at him and acknowledge him. Sometimes it really hurts -
> especially when you're sleeping.

Seriously, he sounds a whole lot like a spoiled brat. He has found ways
to make you do his bidding, and uses them. Smart dog. What you have to
do is to not respond to inappropriate behavior from him, and give him
alternate behavior to perform that you can reward him for. As an
example, make him sit-stay at the door. Open it, step outside and
release him, telling him what a good boy he is for listening to you. If
he realizes that there is no way he is getting out the door without
listening to you, he will do it.

> that I've had previous to this guy, but he's got a mind of his own. He's
> unique. He's stubborn, he doesn't forget things, he's dominant, but he's
> such a little lover.

He's a puppy. Who has been allowed to get away with being a brat.
Nothing you've said leads me to believe that he is in any way more
difficult than your average puppy. Since you can't get to training
classes, look for good puppy training books. In the meantime, you might
want to look into the links here:

http://www.shepherdrescue.org/pages/links.html#B&T

Suja


Spot
2004-05-10 19:21:13 EST
LOL,.......Sorry I don't have any answers for you on this. I'm laughing
because he sounds so much like my Barney I'd swear you were describing my
dog. ADD in dogs......I call it just plain old bull headedness, and a alpha
who "thinks" he's the king. Barney is 11 now and just as full of himself
now as when he was a pup.

Celeste




"kilikini" <kilikini1@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:FpQnc.8300$q_1.2015@twister.socal.rr.com...
> Sorry in advance for the long post & sorry for cross-posting, but I need
> some help...........
>
> Is it possible for a dog to have ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder)? I have
> an 11 month old Aussie who is very eager to learn, is very smart, but also
> very dominant. When I try to teach him, let's say "stay", for instance, I
> tell him to sit (which he does very well), I put my hand up with my palm
> towards him and say stay, while holding his favorite ball in my other
hand,
> backing up the entire time. He'll watch the ball for a second, but if a
> bird comes by, a plane goes overhead, etc., he jumps up to go investigate,
> ignoring the ball and me. If I call his name and wave his ball at him and
> tell him to come, whatever object he was previously focusing his attention
> on gets ignored and he lunges for his ball.
>
> His attention span was much, much, much worse as a little puppy so either
> he's outgrowing distractions or getting used to them.
>
> When he *is* focused, however, it's downright impossible to get his
> attention. If a person walks by, a strange cat strolls along, or a car
> pulls up in the driveway and I call his name to get him away from the
front
> gate to stop barking, it's like he can't hear or see me! I have to
> repeatedly smack my hands together loudly while calling his name to break
> his concentration; grabbing his collar does nothing.
>
> If I can run him two or three times a day in a park or on the beach, he
> seems a little more focused, but that's not always possible - I don't have
a
> car to take him to those places. I can only walk him on a leash (one
> downside to the walking is his extremely light blue eyes - they're very
> sensitive to the heat and sun, so he can only go out in very early morning
> or later evening). When he returns from a short 15 min. walk, he's so
> overheated, tongue flapping, that I have to water him down with the hose.
> Light blue eyes and long fur don't go well in a hot, bright, sunshiney
state
> like Hawaii, but here he is, what are you gonna do?
>
> He's a very sweet, affectionate guy. He'll lay on you and you can shift
him
> in any position on your lap and he'll hang there for a moment. You can
flip
> him on his back and pat his front paws together to play patty cake and
he'll
> let you. He has large tongue-flapping smiles and his tail wags all the
> time. When you talk to him, he'll cock his head and give the appearance
of
> listening, but, again, until something "better" distracts him.
>
> He is very dominant. If I scold him for chasing the cats, he'll bark at
me
> back. When I say "no", he'll bark. I say "no", he barks again. It's
like
> little kids going, no, yes, no, yes, no, yes. He barges past you when
> you're going thru a door so that he makes it thru first, same with
hallways.
> And if he isn't getting immediate attention, he claws you with his paws
> until you look at him and acknowledge him. Sometimes it really hurts -
> especially when you're sleeping.
>
> I've heard our local shelter has obedience classes, but again, I don't
have
> a car and the shelter is a 30 min. car ride away. I'm just wondering if
> anyone has any ideas to help me tame the wild beast! LOL. I've tried
> non-threatening methods that have worked very well on my three other dogs
> that I've had previous to this guy, but he's got a mind of his own. He's
> unique. He's stubborn, he doesn't forget things, he's dominant, but he's
> such a little lover.
>
> Has anyone else ever had similar issues and if so, how did you conquer
> them??? I want to make him a peaceful part of our family existence.
Right
> now, he's the wheel in that shopping cart that always wants to go the
> opposite way.
>
> kili
> --
> "Beer, the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems." - - Homer
> Simpson
>
>



The Puppy Wizard
2004-05-10 20:01:38 EST
HOWEDY Master Of Deception blankman,

<*E@dog-play.com> wrote in message
news:2ga98iFilk0U1@uni-berlin.de...
> In rec.pets.dogs.behavior kilikini <kilikini1@nospamhotmail.com>
wrote:
>
> > Sorry in advance for the long post

No problem. That's the kinda INFORMATION
we need to see HOWE COME kilikini can't train
her dog.

> > & sorry for cross-posting,

Yeah. That'll be particularly EMBARRASSING.

> > but I need some help...........

WELCOME!

> > Is it possible for a dog to have ADD
> > (Attention Deficit Disorder)?

A dog is a dog as a child is a child.
All behavior problems are caused
by mishandling.

> > I have an 11 month old Aussie who is
> > very eager to learn, is very smart, but
> > also very dominant.

Yeah.

> I'm not sure how you are identifying the
> quality "very dominant".

MEANS he won't listen when she
tries to force bribe and intimidate him.

> > When I try to teach him, let's say "stay",
> > for instance,

Takes The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Students just a few
minutes to train a dog to heel sit and
stay.

> "Stay" has its uses, I think,

Ya think?

> but not in what you are trying to do.

You mean, to calm the dog dHOWEN.

> Instead your dog should learn that one
> command is to be carried out until
> you either give a new one, or release
> him to play.

Oh. You mean a "STAY" Vs a "STAY."

> > tell him to sit (which he does very well),

She could ask him to stand or dHOWEN and stay.

> Sounds like what you have taught him
> is that "sit" is an action rather than a
> position.

You mean, a position he's SUPPOSED to "STAY" in?

> If you have taught "sit" only from when
> he is standing then his concept may be
> that "sit" means the action of putting his butt
> on the ground.

Ya thhink???

> Start working on "sit" from lying down,

RIGHT! HOWEver, the QUESTION is STAY.
Not WHERE or HOW, just STAY. Could mean
stayin half standin and half dHOWEN or any
variation.

That's STAY.

> as well as from standing.

Yeah. Let's talk abHOWET STAY.

> And give the command "sit" when he
> is already sitting.

THAT will CONfHOWEND his sit command.

> Praise if he continues to sit.

You mean, "STAYIN."

> Teach him "sit" whether you are at his side,
> in front, to the left or to the right.

You mean, kinda like doin a Tango?

> > I put my hand up with my palm towards
> > him and say stay, while holding his favorite
> > ball in my other hand, backing up the entire time.

BWEEEAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

> Stop backing up. Don't give any command.

Except sit?

> There is no separate command, merely a
> learning that sit continues until told otherwise.

That so?

> First simply turn 1/4 toward him and praise
> him for holding his "sit".

That'll cause him to break when you step away.

> Take one step away. Turn and face him.

To put him back into a sit...

> In other words you first need to help
> him understand that the command continues.

You mean, "STAY."

> While standing next to him drop a ball.

That wouldn't be WIZE cause he'll break
the sit to pick it up.

> Praise him for holding his sit,

You mean, when heel freezes over?

> then release him to play with the ball.

Brilliant. HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy
Wizard never thought of usin a ball to get a
dog to learn to STAY?

> As he grows to understand that sit continues

You mean that SIT means "STAY."

> you will increase the places you move to
> and the distance you mover from him.

Good idea! That'll be FUN!

> Before you ever take more than three steps
> away you should be able to step to all four
> sides without him moving (i.e. turn 1/4 so
> you face the left side, then step directly in
> front, then to his right, then to his rear, then
> back to the front).

BWEEEHAHAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

> Before you get more than five steps from
> him you should be able to walk around him.

That'll take FIVE MINUTES.

> You need to build his ability to be patient.

That so?

> You need to help him understand what
> you want by taking it in small enough
> pieces that he can succeeed.

Oh? Perhaps THAT'S HOWE COME you
can't train a dog to STAY in a few minutes.

> > He'll watch the ball for a second, but if a
> > bird comes by, a plane goes overhead, etc.,
> > he jumps up to go investigate, ignoring the
> > ball and me.

Perhaps she needs some yummy treats?

> > If I call his name and wave his ball at him and
> > tell him to come, whatever object he was previously
> > focusing his attention on gets ignored and he lunges
> > for his ball.

Well always carry a ball and just keep
it still when you want him to STAY.

> Sounds like a perfectly normal adolescent.

That so? You mean the "adolescent
REBELLIHOWES stage."

> > His attention span was much, much,
> > much worse as a little puppy so either
> > he's outgrowing distractions or getting
> > used to them.

For SHORE! "He'll watch the ball for a second,
but if a bird comes by, a plane goes overhead,
etc., he jumps up to go investigate, ignoring the
ball and me."

> > When he *is* focused, however, it's downright
> > impossible to get his attention. If a person walks
> > by, a strange cat strolls along, or a car pulls up
> > in the driveway and I call his name to get him
> > away from the front gate to stop barking, it's like
> > he can't hear or see me!

"If I call his name and wave his ball at him and
tell him to come, whatever object he was previously
focusing his attention on gets ignored and he lunges
for his ball."

The Amazing Puppy Wizard THINKS
HE sees the PROBLEM. The PROBLEM
IS, kilikini is a MENTAL CASE. Like yourself.

> > I have to repeatedly smack my hands together
> > loudly while calling his name to break his
> > concentration; grabbing his collar does nothing.

Yeah? THAT'S HOWE COME he won't do NUTHIN.

> Sounds like a perfectly normal adolescent.

BWEEEHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

No, it sHOWENDS like an ILL TRAINED DOG.

> Dogs vary.

A dog is a dog you dHOWEbletalkin lyin
dog abusing coward.

> What does the instructor at your classes
> you are taking say about this?

BWEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

> You ARE taking classes, right?

BWEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAAA!!!

> The biggest benefit of taking a class
> from an experienced instructor

Like nessa done with janet boss? Or like
your pal lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn does?:

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

> ================

> is that the instructor can (1) help you sort out
> when the problem is YOU vs the dog (2) use
> their experience to creatively solve problems.

Like this?:


"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20

g*7@my-deja.com wrote:
> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.

Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog.

I think a prong works better than a choke with less
chance of injury to the dog in this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to
cats, but should be used under the direction of a
trainer who knows how to instruct the owner in their
proper use.

Electronics can take the form of shock, sonic or
citronella collars. At that time the owner will train
with electronics instead of food or whatever other
reward system was being used."

8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog.

I think a prong works better than a choke with less
chance of injury to the dog in this situation. Have
the dog in a sit-stay next to you with most of the slack
out of the leash and let the cat walk through the room
and up to the dog if it wishes (this is why you have the dog
muzzled).

If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.

This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."

> Your ability to work with your dog will improve
> most rapidly if you learn *concepts* instead of
> recipes.

That so? Instead of LIKE THIS?:

"You need to help him understand what
you want by taking it in small enough
pieces that he can succeeed."

> And learning these concepts will be far easier
> if you can get instant feedback from someone
> who can see what you are doing.

That's a load of crap. Trainin dogs ain't
sumpthin you gotta SEE. You gotta KNOW.
What you KNOW will MAKE what you SEE.

> > If I can run him two or three times a day
> > in a park or on the beach, he seems a little
> > more focused, but that's not always possible -

You dog abusers rely on EXXXCESSIVE EXXXERCISE
to force control of your dog's HYPERACTIVITY.

> > I don't have a car to take him to those places.
> > I can only walk him on a leash (one downside
> > to the walking is his extremely light blue eyes -
> > they're very sensitive to the heat and sun, so he
> > can only go out in very early morning
> > or later evening).
>
> Get him some doggles.
> http://www.doggles.com/
>
> Use sunscreen for parts not adquately protected by fur.
> There are spray on sun screens that are appropriate.
> http://furlongspetsupply.com/dog_sunscreen.htm
> but I've found human sunscreens that are also
> appropriate.
>
> > When he returns from a short 15 min. walk,
> > he's so overheated, tongue flapping,

That's probably cause he's not trained to heel.

> > that I have to water him down with the hose.

That doesn't sHOWEND normal.

<snip>

> > He is very dominant.

Naturally.

> > If I scold him for chasing the cats,

He CHASES them MOORE cause you're
trying to PUNISH him for DOIN sumpthin
NORMAL. THAT'S HOWE COME dogs
GO NUTS and get physically ill from you
abusers punishing and intimidating them.

> > he'll bark at me back. When I say "no",
> > he'll bark. I say "no", he barks again.

Yeah. THAT'S DOMINANCE!

> > It's like little kids going, no, yes, no, yes, no, yes.

IMBECILE.

> That's not "dominant" that's adolescent.

BWEEEEEHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

> > He barges past you when you're going
> > thru a door so that he makes it thru first,
> > same with hallways.
>
> That's not "dominant" that's adolescent.

BWEEEHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!

It was DOMINANCE the last time it was
DISS-CUSSED here abHOWETS.

> > And if he isn't getting immediate attention,
> > he claws you with his paws until you look
> > at him and acknowledge him.

IMAGINE? Perhaps THAT'S HOWE COME
The Amazing Puppy Wizard gives PRAISE
IN ADVANCE.

> > Sometimes it really hurts -
> > especially when you're sleeping.

THAT'S CAUSED BY MISHANDLING.

> Why would you allow this to happen?

Cause she can't stop him cause he's
HYPERACTIVE and HOWETA CONTROL.

> Consider what he wants - attention,
> and what you give him - attention.

So DON'T give him attention and he'll
become MOORE anxiHOWES and MOORE
persistent. Then you'll HURT HIM to BE FAIR.

> On the first pushy move deprive him
> of what he wants. Take him quickly,
> without speaking or scolding, to a quiet
> room.

You think takin him to a other room is IGNORING HIM?

> In that quiet room you will have attached
> a short length of chain to something he
> can't move, and placed where he can't
> reach anything fun.

To punish him for wanting ATTENTION.

> A wall is ideal.

For trainin dogs?

> Leave him for about ten minutes.

To complete the BONDING process?

> Too long won't help,

That so?

> the connection to the behavior will have been lost.

Naaah. The dog will still know you dragged
him into a other room and chained him to
a wall for his BONDING efforts.

> Too short and there won't be a lesson.

The LESSON was COMPLETE soon as
you RESPONDED to the dog scratchin.

> When you release him again do not
> speak or interact.

To initiate the BONDING process?

> Just release and go about your business.

You mean IGNORE him someMOORE.

> Repeat as necessary until he understands
> that no one likes a bully and it won't get
> him what he wants.

Unless he LIKES the direct attention you
give him in your imbecillic attempt to IGNORE
him for BONDING overtures.

> > I've heard our local shelter has obedience
> > classes, but again, I don't have a car and
> > the shelter is a 30 min. car ride away. I'm
> > just wondering if anyone has any ideas to
> > help me tame the wild beast!

BWEEEEAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

kilikini wants to be a dog abuser and she's
gettin her just deserts. Things will get worse
as we watch her posting history. Like marcel.
You remember him. His dog bit his wife.

> Network and find someone who also needs classes.

BWEEEEEHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

> Find a trainer nearer to you.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard trains dogs
all over the Whole Wild World NEARLY
INSTANTLY. FOR FREE.

> Get video tapes on manners training.

BWEEEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

> Although hes a bit old for it "Sirius puppy
> training" has good concepts you can learn from.

Didn't do much for your pals here abHOWETS.

> Ian Dunbar has other tapes where you can
> SEE and get useful information.

All dr. dunbar knows is to bribe and avoid.

<snip bunk>

> > LOL. I've tried non-threatening methods
> > that have worked very well on my three other
> > dogs that I've had previous to this guy, but
> > he's got a mind of his own.

SHOWENDS like her dog HOWEtwitted her.

> > He's unique.

A dog is a dog.

> > He's stubborn,

He's a victim of abuse.

> > he doesn't forget things,

IN FACT, he's SMARTER than you
and your pals.

> > he's dominant, but he's such a little lover.

That'll likely change over the next few months
and he may become dangerHOWES and GET
DEAD over this.

> > Has anyone else ever had similar issues

BWEEHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!

EVERY WON OF HOWER DOG LOVERS
GOT THE SAME SAME SAME SAME PROBLEMS.

> > and if so, how did you conquer them???

Some of them MURDERED their dogs.

> > I want to make him a peaceful part of
> > our family existence. Right now, he's
> > the wheel in that shopping cart that
> > always wants to go the opposite way.

And you're so freakin stupid you're gonna
fight the dog over it.

> Spend more time with

<SNIP BUNK>

> Diane Blackman


Here's all you gotta know:

WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-
depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50
mg of Zoloft every day.

I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn
more, while happily sharing pertinent information
I have learned. But if I were ever to post such sh*t,
I would hope that every other reader of this group
would be rightfully outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the
easily understood rules and contributing to in
constructive ways."

Lynn K.

-----------------------------------------

"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------

ROTATE YOUR MEDS!

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

> ================

That's INSANE. Ain't it.

>>lynn kosmakos (Lithium, Zoloft, bipolar, manic,
>> depression) will "put down a biter
>> as fast as anyone" yet claims to
>> be a saintly dog rescuer


SEE? TOLD YA SO!

Here's lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn's PARTNER:

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."

You think HURTIN dogs and CRINGING
is COURTEOUS?

"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?"

Means the author is a dog abuser of the worst magnitude.

"When you bring home the Bitter Apple for
the first time, spray one squirt directly into
the dog's mouth and walk away. The dog
won't be too thrilled with this but just ignore
him and continue your normal behavior."

You think HURTING your dog is NORMAL BEHAVIOR?

--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"Courteous Canines"

You think HOWER pals are playin with a full deck?

"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20

g*7@my-deja.com wrote:
> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.

Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog.

I think a prong works better than a choke with less
chance of injury to the dog in this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to
cats, but should be used under the direction of a
trainer who knows how to instruct the owner in their
proper use.

Electronics can take the form of shock, sonic or
citronella collars. At that time the owner will train
with electronics instead of food or whatever other
reward system was being used."

8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog.

I think a prong works better than a choke with less
chance of injury to the dog in this situation. Have
the dog in a sit-stay next to you with most of the slack
out of the leash and let the cat walk through the room
and up to the dog if it wishes (this is why you have the dog
muzzled).

If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.

This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."


Lynn K. wrote:

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.
---------------------------------

"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.

Should I have refused to groom them?

Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."

Lynn K.

Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
news:<04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...

> >> Lynn, looks like he got you there if these quotes
> >> are true.
>
> >> In the posts below you take responsibility for
> >> making those calls.
>
> >> In your post above, you state you do not
> >> make those calls.
>
> >>Which one is it?
> :
> > Nope, Bob. Mikey isn't a stupid man and he
> > knows well the difference between:
> >
> > 1. A non-shelter rescue group that occasionally
> > has to put a dog down for health or temperament
> > reasons. (Yep, I'm involved with that.)
> :
> > 2. A trainer hired to evaluate a dog who might
> > determine the dog is potentially dangerous.
> > (Yes, again, I've been in that position.)
> :
> > 3. Public pounds that routinely kill stray and
> > abandoned animals. (Nope, I only pull animals
> > from those pounds into the private rescue programs.)
>
> -----------------------------------

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

> I think you'll find that most are quite willing to
> discuss not only their programs,

YOU HURT and KILL DOGS, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

> but others in your area that would be suitable for you.

Know what? The OP would do better askin a MENTAL
CASE off the street than relyin on you and you MENTALLY
ILL LYIN DOG ABUSIN PUNK THUG COWARDS:

> Lynn K.
>
>>Lynn K. wrote:
>>
>>"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
>>one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
>>schedules and duties causes a great deal of
>>scheduling overhead.
>>
>>And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
>>volunteers get the meaningful experience that
>>they work for.
>>
>>Someone has to be responsible for that
>>Volunteer Program, and it is best done
>>by a non-volunteer."
>>
>>Lynn K.
>>---------------------------------
>>
>>"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
>>every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
>>effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of
>>the older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly
>>matted condition.
>>
>>Should I have refused to groom them?
>>
>>Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
>>had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
>>
>>Lynn K.
>>--------------------------------------

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I volunteered
as assistant to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter
for a while, and I know a bit about overpopulation and
unwanted animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with responsible
breeders, because responsible breeders don't contribute
to that problem," Mustang Sally.


I'll be you've never had to put down litters of
beautiful labrador puppies? If you had did, maybe
you'd be singing a different tune?

"Actually, have held them for the tech to euth, and
put their bodies in the trash bag and in the freezer
for the trash company to come and dispose of.

No different tune," ~Emily

> (replies to the list please)

INDEEDY. On accHOWENT of The Puppy Wizard
don't want noWON to miss the FREAK PARADE:

From: Sunni12 (sunni12@aol.com)
Subject: I am
Newsgroups: alt.support.depression
Date: 1998/12/02

a major bitch today

-Sunny

---------------

From: Sunni12 (sunni12@aol.com)
Subject: Re: got a question - how long before I'm an EX-cutter?
Newsgroups: alt.support.depression
Date: 1998/11/30

> I mean, I haven't cut since June. But am I a cutter
> or an ex-cutter now?
>
> And how long before I am an ex-cutter? anyone
> got any answers?
>
> I still get sort-of cutting urges, but I haven't had
> 'em very strongly.Just sort of vague thoughts in
> my head. But I think that's going to happen forever.
>
> Kind of like alcoholics who recover.
>
> I know that the urge will come back at times of stress,
> but I don't have to do it.
>
>so, when am I an ex-cutter?

Its been about 9 months since I last cut.

I consider myself a recovering self injurer.

I still get the urge at times.

And like an alcoholic, i could easily slide.

So, Im proud of me for being in recovery from cutting....

And I'm proud of you Laz for being in recovery

and Im proud of everyone else resisting the temptation.

Love, hope and caring to yall all

-Sunny


---------------

From: Sunni12 (sunni12@aol.com)
Subject: Re: is it self injury if:
Newsgroups: alt.support.depression
Date: 1998/12/03

>you pick at scabs and watch them bleed...
>
>you pick at hangnails and make them bleed...
>
>you pick at calluses on your feet until they bleed....
>
>you poke blisters making them bleed....

I dont know.
I wonder myself.
I do the same thing.
Im a self injurer and an obsessive compulsive.
I always thought it was picking from my OCD.

-Sunny


----------------

From: Sunni12 (sunni12@aol.com)
Subject: Re: I wish I was........
Newsgroups: alt.support.depression
Date: 1998/12/05

> sunni12@aol.com (Sunni12) wrote:
>> important
>> needed
>> cared about
>> loved
>> wanted
>>
>> -Sunny
>>
>>
>You are all those things, Sunny...& more.
>
>But I'll give you a few more cyberhugs, anyway...
>
>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{SUNNY}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
>
>Mary

Thanks. That was a really bad day when I wrote it.
Much better now.

Thanks

Sunny
who should do something about her PMS


RPD* MeNTally Ill All_StaRz as of 12/21/03

NEW!!

LYNN K. 20 plus years on Lithium
LOIS E. 25 plus years on tricyclics

Hello Fans,

here is our latest NEW AND IMPROVED crazy person
update, including our latest mentally unstable person,
Lois E. of Gary and Lois fame who has been on Tricyclics
pushing 25 years. She is no longer afraid to talk about it.

Neither is Lynn K. who embraces her mental illness and
opens up about her 20 plus years on Lithium, as well as
her love afair with Zoloft.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!
RPD* Ment_ally Ill All_StaRz as of 12/21/03

I TOO HAVE A BIPOLAR MOOD DISORDER
(MANIC DEPRESSION) I ALSO CARE ABOUT
DOGS COMMUNITY IS AN EVOLUTIONARY THING

WORDS OF WISDOM from our own
Lynn Kosmakos


=======================================

From: Chris Kosmakos (chriskoz@netcom.com)
Subject: Re: complaints and goodbye

Lisa K. Baird (lbaird@infinet.com) wrote:
:
: Sheesh, if everyone would start taking responsibility
: for their own actions, wouldn't life be grand?

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder
(manic-depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium
and 50 mg of Zoloft every day. I, also, care
about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information
I have learned. But if I were ever to post
such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully
outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the
easily understood rules and contributing to in
constructive ways."

Lynn K.

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIM
-----------------------------------------

LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar
conversation on Mental problems. LYNN AND LOIS
Almost 50 years on mental illness medications combined

-----------------------------------------

> But I think what Lois was referring to
> was the fact that Darlene actually
> stated at some point that she was
> bipolar--and, IIRC, that meds did not work
> for her--so she was prone to major-league
> ups and downs and sudden
> enthusiasms..

"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------



LYNN K. and the UNQUIET MIND
----------------------------------------

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/03

BoxHill wrote:

> I know I am totally off topic here, but have you read
> "The Unquiet Mind"?

Yeah. It's interesting, but kind of
watered down for the mass market, if
you know what I mean. There's really
quite a lot of good work out there and
decent research. Thank God.

Lynn K.
---------------------------------------

MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION "KUCKOO!! CUCKOO!!!"
MOTHER (LOIS E.) 22 YEARS on TRICYCLICS, DAUGHTER BIPOLAR...

YOU DO THE MATH

"What's really terrific, is now days you can say proudly,
'I take anti-depressives'"

-------------------------------------

From: Gary & lois Edwards (garyl@bmi.net)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/02

BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS

"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics
for about 22 years. Been there, done that, have
the t-shirt to prove it. What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,

"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started
taking them it was seen as something shameful.
If you cut your leg off, and were lying there with
a bleeding stump, you'd never let the word
depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have
any pain meds.....you could become addicted."

The good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's
father locked her in her room back in the twenties
because she was simple. A shame that medication
probably would have helped her live a normal life.

No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
personality, she has a way of making grandiose
plans when at the top of her manic cycle....as
does my daughter. I wasn't saying that anyone
with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."

Lois E.
-------------------------------------


MENTAL ILLNESS IN RPD*
Mental illness is a public issue in these newsgroups.
People are always running around calling other people
mentally ill and diagnosing their illnesses.

I think it's only fair that we have an accurate list of who
is and who isn't mentally ill, so that we can avoid any
misunderstandings and promote group harmony.


Updated KUCKOO!! KUCKOOO! DING! DING! DING!
list as of 12/21/2003:


list of confirmed or suspected mentally ill (crazy)
Regulars Most of whom are women or homosexuals


RPD CRAZY PERSON ROLL CALL and BIOS

=============================================

NESSA
NUTCASE
MVP (Most Valuable Psycho) of dog newsgroups


Successfully dethroned MaryBeth as MVP

Nessa blames all the problems in her life
moston ADD ADHD Or some other empowering acronym
which encapsulates her futility for her

Her dog bagel, a large newf mix
has used her house liberally
as a toilet since February of 2002. Drives
a 2003 Toyota Matrix, owns a house in
suburban MD, recently got a raise/promotion
to US goverment grade 11 (circa $50,000) and
promptly decided she couldn't afford her two
dogs. With help from non crazy regular
(Paulette) and witchcraft practicing regular
Sara Sionnach, Nessa has decided to keep her
dogs for the time being. She is undergoing
training from Janet "Nice Abdominal Surgery
and getting Run Over for the Family Pet."
Her results have not been dramatic.


CrAzy ReGulAr helping CraZy ReGular
Leah helping Nessa

=============================

On Fri, 7 Jun 2002 8:40:08 -0400, Leah wrote

Nessa usenet@nessa.info wrote:
"As far as the depression goes, it's not
related to Bagel at all. I have
chronic major depression and I'm just having
a flare."

Leah asks
"Are you on any medication?"

Nessa responds

yes for depression, mood swings and ADHD.
I have been for over 10 years.

--nessa


Nessa is Fat as well as crazy
=============================
"For what it's worth...

I picked up 30 pounds when I started
Dilantin. I picked up (just recently) another
20 on risperidol.

I hate that I was a size 8-10 before meds and
now I am solidly (pun intended) a 22-24.

Sad part is, the side effects are worth it.
The positive effects
are too much to part with."

--nessa
============================

NESSA'S HAS A GREAT NEUROPSYCH
==============================

Hi, I have a great neuropsych in Arlington Va.
He is at the Rosyln Metro Station. His name is
Martin Stein
1911 N Fort Myer Dr.
Suite 907
Arlington Va 22209
703-807-2471
email 75120.2296@compuserve.com


Marty is wonderful. He is really the best.
He has also given me permission to post his
infomation on this Newsgroup. If you call
him and see him by all means tell him Nessa
sent you.

--nessa
================================

ROTATE YOUR STIMULANTS
=============================

from: Nessa (nessa@ix.netcom.com)

Hi,

I often have to rotate my stimulants.
You can become used to them and sometimes
need a different one for a while. Until I
got on my Desoxyn I rotated Ritilan and
Dexedrine every 3 months or so.

It is true that anti-depressants or
anti-anxiety pills will help with the
stimulants so your DR is not wrong. However,
perhaps she needs to check into the idea that
a switch from cylert to something else might
be in order.

warm thoughts,
Nessa
=============================

Lois E.
(of Gary and Lois fame)

Lois' has been on tricyclic antidepressants for
approximately 25 years. This may be a record.
Husband is a cop but there is no evidence
that he beats the crap out of her, or that he
has for 25 years.

Had a traumatic experience as a child with a
horse running wild in the Pantry and living room.
In recent years, shot neighbor's dog from point
blank range while it was chewing on her pigmy goat,
teaching son to solve problems with the neighbor's
using shock and awe levels of violence."

BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS

"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics
for about 22 years. Been there, done that, have
the t-shirt to prove it. What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,
"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started
taking them it was seen as something shameful.
If you cut your leg off, and were lying there with
a bleeding stump, you'd never let the word
depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have
any pain meds.....you could become addicted." The
good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's
father locked her in her room back in the twenties
because she was simple. A shame that medication
probably would have helped her live a normal life.
No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
personality, she has a way of making grandiose
plans when at the top of her manic cycle....as
does my daughter. I wasn't saying that anyone
with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."

Lois E.

=============================================



Kelly/
culprit

Systems engineer at Microsoft, owner of two
pitbulls, proving that Bill Gates does not
discriminate against crazy people or pit bull
owners.

psychotic features, panic and more. Coming
forward so that others like her will have the
strength to do the same. Like Charlie Wilkes,
she is one of our most entertraining regulars

Here, kelly/culprit talks to Mustang Sally
about her mental illness/crazy problems.
Sally is being rude and condescending (as usual)
and trying to make kelly/culprit feel bad for
being crazy, aka wacked in the head

culprit standing up for herself against rude
and condescending Mustang Sally

-----------------------------------------------

I WON'T DENY MY PROBLEMS, MUSTANG SALLY!

"but i stand by the fact that OCD is an
illness, major depression with psychotic features
certainly is, panic disorder is too. and the
other stuff just makes it all the more fun.

i don't wallow in it. i'm just now learning to
accept it, because ignoring it wasn't working out
too well. i need to do that to make changes to my
life so that i can become healthy. and you say
you're not trying to be condescending, but you're
doing it again. what i read was, (my paraphrasing)
"people who think they're mentally ill are
wallowing in their disabilities and letting them
consume their life"

you come across as though you would be able to
handle any of these illnesses, and anyone who
can't is just copping out. well we're all
different. and i don't accept your idea that i
would have a more productive life if i denied my
problems. i tried it for years, and believe me,
it didn't work very well."

-kelly aka culprit
systems engineer @ Microsoft
----------------------------------------------




=============================================
=============================================



MaryBeth
FMVP (former most valuable psycho)

(super psycho bitch
lunatic queen of the
mentally fucked in
the head)


Has contributed greatly to the annual profit
results at several large pharmaceutical corps
has taken virtually every mentally ill (crazy)
drug treatment in the book, and then some:
prozac, zoloft, amitryptiline, Buspar, Xanax,
effexor, paxil, HRT, wellbutrin, tranquilizers,
clomid,



MaryBeth has suffered from or been:

TIDAL WAVES OF PMS

suicidal, agoraphobic, tidal waves of PMS,
mood swings, turned into a hermit, bloated,
just real angry, hubby afraid of her, high
blood pressure, divorced, "raving bitch"
"zoloft zombie" for four years, "living
through layers and layers of gauze," chain
smoker, buzzing, weight gain, fatigue,
terrible dry mouth, dull headaches, fuzzy
brain, lack of concentration..etc.
severe depression, severe insomnia, Panic
ALL the time, crying, not sleeping, you name
it...etc...

MaryBeth (on being seriously f'd in the head
aka mentally ill) aka cuckoo! kuckoo! ding! ding! ding!
aka a superpsychotic bitch from hell



I RAN OVER EVERYONE IN MY PATH

"I know for a fact I went thru years of
being overly sensitive, being a b*tch,
being self centered, being self pitying,
you name it, I was a wreck and I ran over
everyone in my path."

"<G> I do know the power of meds, especially
on a long term basis, and it's not pretty.
You become another person, if it's not the
correct med for you.

--All the best,
MaryBeth


DON'T TAKE ULTRAM AND ZOLOFT TOGETHER

"Yup Diane, I am taking Zoloft, and my
Rheumatologist told me that taking
Ultram with it can cause seizures."

"I have all the symptoms.I am suicidal at
times (cyclical) have severe insomnia,
'crawly' skin etc. I have an appt to see
my doc next Friday to test for menopause."

--MaryBeth


ME NOT SO HORNY

"I noticed that antidepressants cut libido
into the dead zone and I had no real emotions,
like not laughing at funny stuff, couldn't cry
either.....except about my suicidal thoughts
(but at the time I thought there was no other
way out)."

--MaryBeth

NEW TO GROUP

"Hi, new to group, just starting Clomid today.
I talked with RE and pharmacist re: zoloft (50
mg daily) and ineraction with Clomid. They
reported none. Not sure about the prozac tho.
Gonna poat a new message to intorduce
myself :)"

--MaryBeth <still feeling
like herself> <G>


WASTED 10 YEARS

"I wasted about 10 years of my life, and lost
many many treasured ppl and things. Please
don't do the same. (((((((SCOUT))))))))))

--MaryBeth



WAS HORRIBLE

"Slowly but surely my depression got worse and
worse. They put me on meds for it, and all
along kept telling me to wait on the TKR, as
'it really wasn't that bad.....yet". HA!"
The depression got so bad, and lots of other
things happened and my ex and I would up
divorced four years after our move. It was
horrible. The hardest thing I have eve gone
thru"

--MaryBeth


=============================================
=============================================

Theresa Willis


(paxil, depression, robot displacement)
Theresa is a gang banger who comes out
of cutesy robot mode when it's time to
gang attack people with her pal shelly
Victim is usually Leah, but may be a
random person.

=============================================
=============================================




shelly
couvrette

Severe OCD, depression, prescribed Paxil
for mental illness, but claims she does
not take it, resulting in an obsessive
basket case online persona. Posts more than
any other female in all dog newsgroups

(familial mental illness, possibly related
to family bed) obsessively starves her
dogs according to friends, family,
strangers and 3 different vets, but
not herself (see below). Still thinks
of herself as a five year old ballerina
despite the fact that she is a fat
adult in her mid thirties.

PAGE ALL THE WAY DOWN FOR BONUS COVERAGE

=============================================
=============================================




lynn
kosmakos

RPD* Enemy of Dogs #1

(Lithium, Zoloft, bipolar, manic,
depression) will "put down a biter
as fast as anyone" yet claims to
be a saintly dog rescuer. Murders
dogs because of insurance rates
Her brother was attacked by a Golden
Retriever when she was young. For
this reason, she murders easily
trainable dogs. Condemns dogs to
death who are easily trainable
with her "evaluations."
Is nice to people in person, but
her true dog hating nature comes
out on newsgroups with
extreme clarity.

Advocates shooting dogs on sight, when
they chase deer. Sees no other
option. Her own dog Java had to be shocked
with a shock collar to keep him from
chasing deer.

has been on lithium for approximately
20 years. Zoloft for an undetermined
number of years



1200mg LITHIUM
50mg ZOLOFT

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder
(manic-depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium
and 50 mg of Zoloft every day. I, also, care
about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information
I have learned. But if I were ever to post
such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."



WE EARN THE RIGHT TO PARTICIPATE

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the
easily understood rules and contributing to in
constructive ways."

Lynn K.



I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.




From: Chris Kosmakos (chriskoz@netcom.com)
Subject: Re: Prozac - Good medication or no?

I TAKE A SIMILAR DRUG MYSELF

"Yes, for very specific behaviorial problems.
I would have to trust my vet and behaviorist
a lot, and be very sure that I had exhausted
every other option before I used Prozac to
deal with a dog problem - and I take a
similar drug, Zoloft, myself."

Lynn K.





=============================================
=============================================


Leah

Effexor for chronic depression, in denial
about being mentally ill. Has taken
several other mentally ill medications
before settling on effexor for her
chronic mental problems. Leah is
improving as a dog trainer and wants
to open her own training/boarding
kennel soon and write a book.

This drives her fellow
mentally ill regulars nuts (read shelly
Lynn K.),
especially if Leah succeeds while other
loonies continue to sit on their fat
behinds

Leah is a relatively stable crazy person
but she just might be the agent that drives
others to jump off of a cliff

=============================================
=============================================



Tara Green

Tara Green is a dog trainer of sorts in New York
City left rpd* claiming that she could
not afford internet access and/or a computer,
but her story is of value nonetheless

was on antidepressants for a few years
prior to her marriage. During her
marriage, she learned a lot:
"With the therapist I saw during my
marriage I learned that some
situational depressions are masked as
chemical simply because of our too human
ability to prolong the impact of the
causal situations indefinitely"

Sounds like more denial, see leah

Tara is also a drunk who has also had
problems with other substances

TARA on being a drunk/substance abuser:

"Tara (who had some problems with quite a
few substances as well, but who thinks they
are separate issues.....so which camp does
that put me in???)"

"Believe it or not, some people don't have
a problem with drugs even though they are
alcoholics. I'm not one of those people,
but they do exist."

aka, tara has problems with both


=============================================
=============================================



Kevin
Michael
Vail

various mental illness drugs, started with
zoloft, didn't like that, then went to
antidepressant, stopped after sufficent
side effects, now on SSRI and in therapy
Kevin is a homosexual but there is no
evidence that this is the cause of him
being crazy

=============================================
=============================================


Furpaw

(SSRI, cognitive therapy)
otherwise, a fairly boring
and nondescript crazy person

=============================================
=============================================



Chris Jung

(Prozac and Welbutrin,
cognitive therapy)

another very boring nutcase

=============================================
=============================================



Charlie
Wilkes


drugged out, crazy, fucked up all his
life, Christ the shit he's been through
including psych wards and electroshock
treatments but now pulling down major cash
as a business consultant. Triumphing over
adversity, with a damn good life and a
well trained dog (very much unlike Leah)
One of our most lucid regulars, despite
(or maybe because of?) a penchant for phat
philly blunts.

=============================================
=============================================



Karen
DuChateaux
aka Karibear

suffered from clinical depression for years
until some drug or something brought her out
of it. Some of her best friends "are
certifiable" and have various degrees of
psychoses. Familial mental disability.
Refuses to say whether or not she is
currently using drug or cognitive therapy
for mental illness.

=============================================
=============================================



Mike
"DumbOxDumb"
Dufort


threatened non violent dog expert Jerry Howe
with Mike's fully armed US Army Platoon.
Threatened to bring his platoon to Jerry's
HOWSE. also OCD (obsessed with Jerry's posts)

=============================================
=============================================



Jim "Brain
Shivers"
Sabatke



Jim is currently on Effexor which he takes
because of his depression/mental problems.
Like many of our mental cases, Jim has had
trouble finding the right med(s) to keep him
from going kuckoo!! kuckoooo!!! or getting
the "brain shivers"


From: Jim Sabatke (jsabatke@execpc.com)
Subject: Re: anyone using Effexor?
alt.support.depression.medication
Date: 2002-11-29 20:25:16 PST

EFFEXOR
"I'm on 375 mg/day and it has worked
wonders for me. The only down side is
that my blood pressure has elevated
somewhat; oh and if I miss a dose by a
couple of hours the "brain shivers" can
be really bad.

Good luck!

Jim



"I switched from Paxil to Effexor about
5 months ago. I tapered off of the Paxil
and tapered onto the Effexor at the same
time."

Jim



"After several years on Effexor IR, my
pdoc tried switching me to XR. I
experienced fairly severe Effexor
withdrawel until I went back to the IR."

Jim

=============================================
=============================================



<YOUR NAME GOES HERE>

(please proudly add your name and the drugs/disorders specific
to you, if you are also mentally ill). If we all come forward,
we can help each other with our problems. Remember, mental illness
is nothing to be ashamed of. It's not your fault if you have a
defective brain which may cause you to act like an extreme
hypocrite
and/or idiot and/or robot without your being aware of it).

Also, please notify us if you are *not* mentally ill, and have
been added to this by mistake, so we can make our corrections
and remove you from the crazy person list.

===========================================




mental health weekly


--
This has been a production of
dogtv.com networks
your world leader in dog entertraining


this is michael
reporting live...
from dogtv.com networks
http://dogtv.com




A SPECIAL BONUS ON shelly the librarian at Indiana U.

========================================================
SHELLY IS THE ONLY ONE WHO DOESN'T THINK HATTIE IS STARVING


EMACIATED, VET WAS SURPRISED

"when i got harriet she was emaciated, so
i asked my vet for advice on slowly adding
weight to her. six months later i took
harriet in for her spring check-up and my
vet was surprised that at how thin she still
was."
--shelly couvrette


STILL VET SHOPPING

"<raises hand> i've been told by three
different vets that harriet (53lbs) is
*way* too skinny. we're still vet-shopping,
BTW."

--shelly couvrette

THE OL' "I'M STARVING" ROUTINE

"if you really can't resist it when your dog pulls
the "i'm starving!" routine <G>, you can give
him some frozen green beans or a small amount
of plain pureed pumpkin. i would also suggest
putting the food out of his sight. i keep my
food--still inside the bags, which are tightly
rolled down--inside trash cans in the closed
laundry room. that keeps it fresh and keeps
it out of my dogs' sight."

--shelly couvrette


POSITIVELY STARVED

"heh. i get the opposite response. people think
that poor little harriet is positively starved
to death. i've actually had people stop me in
the pet supply shop and tell me that i need to
fatten her up!"

--shelly couvrette


WHO WANTS TO BE TOLD YOU ARE HURTING YOUR
WIDDLE PRECIOUS?

"i think that may be part of the problem. who
wants to go to a vet who tells you you're
hurting your .widdle precious? i think the
other part is that some vets really don't
*realize* that what they consider proper weight
is fat. after having been told by a couple of
vets that my dogs are too thin, i've got a dim
view of vets on that topic."

--shelly couvrette


JUST A BITE WON'T HURT
--shelly's mom

FEED HER AND I'LL RIP YOUR
ARM OFF, BITCH
--shelly

"my mom is kinda that way, but not *as* bad.
she thinks that harriet is awfully skinny,
so feeding her table snax is okay. she
tells me that just a bite won't hurt."

--shelly couvrette


NOBODY IS STARVING FAT PI.G SHELLY

NOBODY WILL STOP SHELLY ON THE STREET
AND TELL HER SHE IS STARVING HERSELF
shelly's fat face
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette/Wshelly2.jpg
=======================================================


There are a lot of big fat women on these groups who starve
their dogs out of vanity, but shelly is a special case.

shelly is moor.e than a little bit beyond the pale

Shelly has OCD, and maybe she's just a little obsessive about
measuring out extra tiny and discrete portions with a tiny
measuring cup, or counting out pieces of green bean or pumpkin
that she gives her dogs when they give her the "I'm Starving"
routine. When grandma tried to give Hattie a snack, shelly
probably went apeshit, because it was in violation of her
Obsessive need to oversee every tiny calorie that goes into
her widdle precious' mouth.

shelly's a special case, a special kind of dog abuser


------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------


this marks the end of the rec.pets.dogs.* crazy person list

copyright 2003
dogtv.com networks
you are free to reproduce this list





The Puppy Wizard
2004-05-10 20:28:30 EST
HOWEDY c.l.,

"C.L." <spamsucks@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:FOmdnQZ3eO0VcgLdRVn_iw@adelphia.com...
>
> "kilikini" <kilikini1@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:FpQnc.8300$q_1.2015@twister.socal.rr.com...
>
> > Is it possible for a dog to have ADD (Attention
> > Deficit Disorder)?
>
> It's not possible for a HUMAN to have ADD.

Sez you?

> But we've already been through that argument. :)

BWEEEHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

> Sounds like what you've got is just going
> too fast with your dog.

You think she's makin too much progress?

> Your dog should first learn a stay inside
> with no disturbances.

That's ABSURD, c.l.. If you knew anything
abHOWET trainin and learnin you'd know
the DISTRACTIONS are your FRIEND cause
they INCREASE brain activity and facilitate
THINKIN. It's kinda like that EXXXPERIMENT
with children studying with a live pet mHOWES
or sumpthin they had to keep on their desk. The
ATTENTION to the mHOWES facillitated ATTENTION
for their studies and their grades improved.

Same same effect can come from chewin gum
or pacing while studing... Perhaps you should
go back to school, c.l.?

> Once she gets that down then you start
> adding small distractions.

You mean instead of teachin sit and stay
in a few minutes by distraction and praise?

It's kinda like smoke an mirrors, c.l..

> Dog training is all about successive
> approximations.

You mean, teachin meaningless behaviors
and puttin them on cue and then linking them
to elicit an unthinkin meaningless behavior in
exchange for a cookie?

> Break down the final behavior into the
> tiniest bits

She's lookin to treach a STAY command.
YOU CAN'T GET tinyier than THAT.

> and once the first bit is down

You mean, "STAY?"

> THEN move onto the next.

You mean, "STAY."

> If she messes up the second bit,

The STAY.

> go back to working on the first.

You mean, the "STAY."

> Just a "sit" command can have 4 or 5
> approximations.

That so? Perhaps THAT'S HOWE COME
you can't train a dog to heel sit and stay in
five minutes flat.

> A 30 minute down stay outside in a busy
> park could have hundreds! :)

Could. If you didn't know HOWE to train it.

Let's talk abHOWET sumpthin different?

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to
it. When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

Lynn K. wrote:

"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.

And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.

Someone has to be responsible for that Volunteer
Program, and it is best done by a non-volunteer."

Lynn K.

---------------------------------

"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I
volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and I
know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.

This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.

I'll be you've never had to put down litters of
beautiful labrador puppies? If you had did, maybe
you'd be singing a different tune?

"Actually, have held them for the tech to euth, and
put their bodies in the trash bag and in the freezer
for the trash company to come and dispose of.

No different tune," ~Emily


WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-
depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50
mg of Zoloft every day.

I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn
more, while happily sharing pertinent information
I have learned. But if I were ever to post such sh*t,
I would hope that every other reader of this group
would be rightfully outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the
easily understood rules and contributing to in
constructive ways."

Lynn K.

-----------------------------------------

"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------


"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."

You think HURTIN dogs and CRINGING
is COURTEOUS?

"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?"

Means the author is a dog abuser of the worst magnitude.

"When you bring home the Bitter Apple for
the first time, spray one squirt directly into
the dog's mouth and walk away. The dog
won't be too thrilled with this but just ignore
him and continue your normal behavior."

You think HURTING your dog is NORMAL BEHAVIOR?

--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"Courteous Canines"

You think HOWER pals are playin with a full deck?

"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.

lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:

"This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20

g*7@my-deja.com wrote:
> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.

Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.

"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog.

I think a prong works better than a choke with less
chance of injury to the dog in this situation.

Electronics can be used to create an aversion to
cats, but should be used under the direction of a
trainer who knows how to instruct the owner in their
proper use.

Electronics can take the form of shock, sonic or
citronella collars. At that time the owner will train
with electronics instead of food or whatever other
reward system was being used."

8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog.

I think a prong works better than a choke with less
chance of injury to the dog in this situation. Have
the dog in a sit-stay next to you with most of the slack
out of the leash and let the cat walk through the room
and up to the dog if it wishes (this is why you have the dog
muzzled).

If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.

This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."


"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.

Should I have refused to groom them?

Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."

Lynn K.

Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
news:<04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...

> >> Lynn, looks like he got you there if these quotes
> >> are true.
> >> In the posts below you take responsibility for
> >> making those calls.
> >> In your post above, you state you do not
> >> make those calls.
> >>Which one is it?
> :
> > Nope, Bob. Mikey isn't a stupid man and he
> > knows well the difference between:
> >
> > 1. A non-shelter rescue group that occasionally
> > has to put a dog down for health or temperament
> > reasons. (Yep, I'm involved with that.)
> :
> > 2. A trainer hired to evaluate a dog who might
> > determine the dog is potentially dangerous.
> > (Yes, again, I've been in that position.)
> :
> > 3. Public pounds that routinely kill stray and
> > abandoned animals. (Nope, I only pull animals
> > from those pounds into the private rescue programs.)
>
> -----------------------------------



The Puppy Wizard
2004-05-10 20:31:10 EST
You forgot the cookie, suja.

"Suja" <spanaval@scs.gmu.edu> wrote in message
news:yiSnc.11220$Lm3.2757@lakeread04...
>
> kilikini wrote:
>
> > Is it possible for a dog to have ADD (Attention Deficit
Disorder)?
>
> I suppose. However, inability to concentrate in dogs is
generally a
> sign of youth.
>
> > very dominant. When I try to teach him, let's say "stay", for
instance, I
> > tell him to sit (which he does very well), I put my hand up
with my palm
> > towards him and say stay, while holding his favorite ball in
my other hand,
> > backing up the entire time.
>
> When you initially teach any command, do it in the least
distracting
> environment you can find, for example, inside the house. After
the dog
> has the concept down in one environment, move to another, with a
little
> more distractions. Dogs are not good at generalizing, so just
because
> they understand a command in one situation does not mean that
they also
> understand it when the situation changes. One more thing. With
a
> command like Stay, it is important that you not work on both the
time
> and distance at the same time. Work on having him hold the stay
when
> you are right there. Increase the time slowly. Then, work on
having
> him hold the stay when you are a foot away, then 5 ft. away,
etc.
> Having the dog holding a stay for 30 minutes while you are out
of sight
> (for example) is something you work towards, and you can't
expect the
> puppy to learn it right away.
>
> > His attention span was much, much, much worse as a little
puppy so either
> > he's outgrowing distractions or getting used to them.
>
> Puppies have *short* attention spans. They get longer as they
mature.
> It is important that you keep the training time short and fun.
Instead
> of doing two 10 minute sessions, you might want to do four 5
minute
> sessions, for example. The idea is for you to always finish up
the
> training sessions on a positive note, while the puppy is
succeeding, and
> before he gets tired or distracted.
>
> > When he *is* focused, however, it's downright impossible to
get his
> > attention. If a person walks by, a strange cat strolls along,
or a car
> > pulls up in the driveway and I call his name to get him away
from the front
> > gate to stop barking, it's like he can't hear or see me! I
have to
> > repeatedly smack my hands together loudly while calling his
name to break
> > his concentration; grabbing his collar does nothing.
>
> Two things. Do NOT give commands you cannot enforce. Do NOT
train in
> such distracting environments when your pup is obviously not
ready for it.
>
> > If I can run him two or three times a day in a park or on the
beach, he
> > seems a little more focused, but that's not always possible -
I don't have a
> > car to take him to those places.
>
> You have a young puppy of a VERY energetic breed. He needs lots
of
> exercise, both physical and mental. Can't you take him for
walks right
> in the neighborhood where you live? If you have access to any
enclosed
> space (baseball field, tennis/basketball courts, a friend's
fenced in
> yard), you can use that for giving him a little running around
time.
> Just be careful if you use something like tennis courts - the
hard
> surface can be rough on their joints.
>
> > I can only walk him on a leash (one
> > downside to the walking is his extremely light blue eyes -
they're very
> > sensitive to the heat and sun, so he can only go out in very
early morning
> > or later evening).
>
> That's the first time I've heard anything like that. Have no
idea if
> light eyes are more sensitive to light and heat.
>
> > When he returns from a short 15 min. walk, he's so
> > overheated, tongue flapping, that I have to water him down
with the hose.
>
> Make sure to take plenty of water with you when you go for
walks. You
> might want to consider clipping his belly ( I have no experience
with
> this, just know of other people who do so) to keep him more
comfortable.
> If it is possible for you to take him swimming, it's great
exercise,
> and it will keep him cool.
>
> > He is very dominant. If I scold him for chasing the cats,
he'll bark at me
> > back. When I say "no", he'll bark. I say "no", he barks
again. It's like
> > little kids going, no, yes, no, yes, no, yes. He barges past
you when
> > you're going thru a door so that he makes it thru first, same
with hallways.
> > And if he isn't getting immediate attention, he claws you with
his paws
> > until you look at him and acknowledge him. Sometimes it
really hurts -
> > especially when you're sleeping.
>
> Seriously, he sounds a whole lot like a spoiled brat. He has
found ways
> to make you do his bidding, and uses them. Smart dog. What you
have to
> do is to not respond to inappropriate behavior from him, and
give him
> alternate behavior to perform that you can reward him for. As
an
> example, make him sit-stay at the door. Open it, step outside
and
> release him, telling him what a good boy he is for listening to
you. If
> he realizes that there is no way he is getting out the door
without
> listening to you, he will do it.
>
> > that I've had previous to this guy, but he's got a mind of his
own. He's
> > unique. He's stubborn, he doesn't forget things, he's
dominant, but he's
> > such a little lover.
>
> He's a puppy. Who has been allowed to get away with being a
brat.
> Nothing you've said leads me to believe that he is in any way
more
> difficult than your average puppy. Since you can't get to
training
> classes, look for good puppy training books. In the meantime,
you might
> want to look into the links here:
>
> http://www.shepherdrescue.org/pages/links.html#B&T
>
> Suja
>



Kilikini
2004-05-10 23:59:25 EST
T*E@dog-play.com> wrote in message news:2ga98iFilk0U1@uni-berlin.de...
> In rec.pets.dogs.behavior kilikini <kilikini1@nospamhotmail.com> wrote:
> > Sorry in advance for the long post & sorry for cross-posting, but I need
> > some help...........
>
> > Is it possible for a dog to have ADD (Attention Deficit Disorder)? I
have
> > an 11 month old Aussie who is very eager to learn, is very smart, but
also
> > very dominant.
>
> I'm not sure how you are identifying the quality "very dominant".

He wants to be boss. He thinks he has the upper hand. It's only recently
he's been feeling contrite if I scold him.

>
> > When I try to teach him, let's say "stay", for instance, I
>
> "Stay" has its uses, I think, but not in what you are trying to do.
> Instead your dog should learn that one command is to be carried out until
> you either give a new one, or release him to play.

Okay, I'm going to work on the "stay" technique tomorrow. I will ask him to
sit and I'll attempt to have him hold it - without me moving backwards. I
can see what I did wrong here.

>
> > tell him to sit (which he does very well),
>
> Sounds like what you have taught him is that "sit" is an action rather
> than a position. If you have taught "sit" only from when he is standing
> then his concept may be that "sit" means the action of putting his butt
> on the ground. Start working on "sit" from lying down, as well as from
> standing. And give the command "sit" when he is already sitting. Praise
> if he continues to sit. Teach him "sit" whether you are at his side, in
> front, to the left or to the right.

And you're absolutely 100% correct. That's exactly what I've taught him -
sit is an action. I never thought of having him go to a sit position from a
laying down position. This is another thing I'm going to work on. Thanks.

>
> > I put my hand up with my palm
> > towards him and say stay, while holding his favorite ball in my other
hand,
> > backing up the entire time.
>
> Stop backing up. Don't give any command. There is no separate
> command, merely a learning that sit continues until told otherwise. First
> simply turn 1/4 toward him and praise him for holding his "sit". Take
> one step away. Turn and face him. In other words you first need to help
> him understand that the command continues. While standing next to him
> drop a ball. Praise him for holding his sit, then release him to play
> with the ball. As he grows to understand that sit continues you will
> increase the places you move to and the distance you mover from him.
> Before you ever take more than three steps away you should be able to
> step to all four sides without him moving (i.e. turn 1/4 so you face the
> left side, then step directly in front, then to his right, then to his
> rear, then back to the front). Before you get more than five steps from
> him you should be able to walk around him. You need to build his ability
> to be patient. You need to help him understand what you want by taking
> it in small enough pieces that he can succeeed.

I'll start this tomorrow and I'll be filling you in with progress reports.
(And or questions....!!!)

>
> > He'll watch the ball for a second, but if a
> > bird comes by, a plane goes overhead, etc., he jumps up to go
investigate,
> > ignoring the ball and me. If I call his name and wave his ball at him
and
> > tell him to come, whatever object he was previously focusing his
attention
> > on gets ignored and he lunges for his ball.
>
> Sounds like a perfectly normal adolescent.

Okay, how do we stop it?
>
> > His attention span was much, much, much worse as a little puppy so
either
> > he's outgrowing distractions or getting used to them.
>
> > When he *is* focused, however, it's downright impossible to get his
> > attention. If a person walks by, a strange cat strolls along, or a car
> > pulls up in the driveway and I call his name to get him away from the
front
> > gate to stop barking, it's like he can't hear or see me! I have to
> > repeatedly smack my hands together loudly while calling his name to
break
> > his concentration; grabbing his collar does nothing.
>
> Sounds like a perfectly normal adolescent. Dogs vary. What does the
> instructor at your classes you are taking say about this? You ARE taking
> classes, right? The biggest benefit of taking a class from an
> experienced instructor is that the instructor can (1) help you sort out
> when the problem is YOU vs the dog (2) use their experience to creatively
> solve problems. Your ability to work with your dog will improve most
> rapidly if you learn *concepts* instead of recipes. And learning these
> concepts will be far easier if you can get instant feedback from someone
> who can see what you are doing.

I understand. I wish I could do classes. Since I can't I came to the NG's
for advice. You guys have already been a tremendous help!
>
> > If I can run him two or three times a day in a park or on the beach, he
> > seems a little more focused, but that's not always possible - I don't
have a
> > car to take him to those places. I can only walk him on a leash (one
> > downside to the walking is his extremely light blue eyes - they're very
> > sensitive to the heat and sun, so he can only go out in very early
morning
> > or later evening).
>
> Get him some doggles.
> http://www.doggles.com/

Didn't know they existed! I really didn't! I looked on their website and
there's actually a store in Kahului that carries them! AWESOME! Whoo hoo!

>
> Use sunscreen for parts not adquately protected by fur.
> There are spray on sun screens that are appropriate.
> http://furlongspetsupply.com/dog_sunscreen.htm
> but I've found human sunscreens that are also appropriate.
>
The breeder I got him from said that normal human sunblock is fine to use on
his nose since it's a very light pink. I've been doing that if I know he'll
be exposed to the sun. He doesn't like it tho, and tries to wipe it off
with his paws, which is funny all on its own!

> > When he returns from a short 15 min. walk, he's so
> > overheated, tongue flapping, that I have to water him down with the
hose.
> > Light blue eyes and long fur don't go well in a hot, bright, sunshiney
state
> > like Hawaii, but here he is, what are you gonna do?
>
> Consider discussing with a groomer relieving him of his excess coat while
> leaving him enough for sun protection.

I asked my vet about getting him clipped and they advised me against it. I
guess because he's a red merle (more white than red), he doesn't have much
pigment in his skin to protect it from the sun. They said he'd get too
sunburned. I believed it. Should I get a second opinion?

>
> > He's a very sweet, affectionate guy. He'll lay on you and you can shift
him
> > in any position on your lap and he'll hang there for a moment. You can
flip
> > him on his back and pat his front paws together to play patty cake and
he'll
> > let you. He has large tongue-flapping smiles and his tail wags all the
> > time. When you talk to him, he'll cock his head and give the appearance
of
> > listening, but, again, until something "better" distracts him.
>
> > He is very dominant. If I scold him for chasing the cats, he'll bark at
me
> > back. When I say "no", he'll bark. I say "no", he barks again. It's
like
> > little kids going, no, yes, no, yes, no, yes.
>
> That's not "dominant" that's adolescent.
>
> > He barges past you when
> > you're going thru a door so that he makes it thru first, same with
hallways.
>
> That's not "dominant" that's adolescent.
>
> > And if he isn't getting immediate attention, he claws you with his paws
> > until you look at him and acknowledge him. Sometimes it really hurts -
> > especially when you're sleeping.
>
> Why would you allow this to happen? Consider what he wants - attention,
> and what you give him - attention. On the first pushy move deprive him
> of what he wants. Take him quickly, without speaking or scolding, to a
> quiet room. In that quiet room you will have attached a short length of
> chain to something he can't move, and placed where he can't reach
> anything fun. A wall is ideal. Leave him for about ten minutes. Too
> long won't help, the connection to the behavior will have been lost. Too
> short and there won't be a lesson. When you release him again do not
> speak or interact. Just release and go about your business. Repeat as
> necessary until he understands that no one likes a bully and it won't get
> him what he wants.
>

You're right, you're right. I've encouraged it because I don't want to hurt
his feelings. It's my fault. I look in his eyes and I see, "oh, my baby",
he looks in my eyes and he sees "SUCKER."


> > I've heard our local shelter has obedience classes, but again, I don't
have
> > a car and the shelter is a 30 min. car ride away. I'm just wondering if
> > anyone has any ideas to help me tame the wild beast!
>
> Network and find someone who also needs classes. Find a trainer nearer
> to you. Get video tapes on manners training. Although hes a bit old for
> it "Sirius puppy training" has good concepts you can learn from. Ian
> Dunbar has other tapes where you can SEE and get useful information.
> Also
> The Dominant Dog (Video)
> John Rogerson
> Contact: Cheryl L. Trotter
> (713)579-7131
> http://www.clickersolutions.com/blog/blog12.htm
>
> > LOL. I've tried
> > non-threatening methods that have worked very well on my three other
dogs
> > that I've had previous to this guy, but he's got a mind of his own.
He's
> > unique. He's stubborn, he doesn't forget things, he's dominant, but
he's
> > such a little lover.
>
> > Has anyone else ever had similar issues and if so, how did you conquer
> > them??? I want to make him a peaceful part of our family existence.
Right
> > now, he's the wheel in that shopping cart that always wants to go the
> > opposite way.
>
> Spend more time with books that explain concepts e.g.
> Excel-Erated Learning, By Pamela Reid
> Smart Trainers, Brilliant Dogs by Janet R Lewis
>
> --
> Diane Blackman
> http://dog-play.com/
> http://dog-play.com/shop2.html


Thanks, Diane, I really, really appreciate your helpful comments. Now to
implement them! I'll keep you posted as to how we're doing.

kili



The Puppy Wizard
2004-05-11 00:06:49 EST
BWEEAAAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAAAA!!!

"kilikini" <kilikini1@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:X%Xnc.14927$EH6.10928@twister.socal.rr.com...
> "Mary H Healey" <mhhealey@iastate.edu> wrote in message
> news:409FE637.4070309@iastate.edu...
> > kilikini wrote:
> > > Is it possible for a dog to have ADD (Attention Deficit
Disorder)?
> >
> > I suspect so, but don't really know.
> >
> > >... When I try to teach him, let's say "stay", for instance,
I
> > > tell him to sit (which he does very well), I put my hand up
with my palm
> > > towards him and say stay, while holding his favorite ball in
my other
> hand,
> > > backing up the entire time.
> >
> > Backing up encourages the dog to follow you, or so I've
observed. Start
> > teaching "stay" without leaving the dog. Repeat until he'll
hold
> > position for 30-60 seconds -- don't expect this to be a
one-day journey!
> > Then repeat the exercise, but pivot directly in front of
him. Then
> > take one step away, pivot. Two steps. Etc.
> >
>
> Okay, I'm going to start on this tomorrow. I appreciate this!
>
> > > He'll watch the ball for a second,
> >
> > With respect, he should be watching you.
> >
> > > but if a
> > > bird comes by, a plane goes overhead, etc., he jumps up to
go
> investigate,
> > > ignoring the ball and me.
> >
> > Don't let him *do* that.
>
> How do I stop him? Should I wave a piece of food under his nose
to get his
> attention back?
>
> >
> > > His attention span was much, much, much worse as a little
puppy so
> either
> > > he's outgrowing distractions or getting used to them.
> >
> > A little of both, I suppose.
> >
> > > When he *is* focused, however, it's downright impossible to
get his
> > > attention.
> >
> > Not if you stand directly in front of him, filling his entire
field of
> > vision, and gently direct his gaze to you.
> >
> > > If a person walks by, a strange cat strolls along, or a car
> > > pulls up in the driveway and I call his name to get him away
from the
> front
> > > gate to stop barking, it's like he can't hear or see me!
> >
> > Why are you giving commands you can't enforce?
> >
> > > He is very dominant. If I scold him for chasing the cats,
he'll bark at
> me
> > > back. When I say "no", he'll bark. I say "no", he barks
again. It's
> like
> > > little kids going, no, yes, no, yes, no, yes.
> >
> > Then why do you engage him in this? Say "no", he barks, crate
him. Or
> > turn your back, leave the room, whatever.
>
> I have a crate, but I don't want to use it for negative
behavior. I want
> him to go there if I need him to, like if I have visitors. I
dont want him
> to see a crate as a negative thing. Right now, when I'm really
mad at him I
> make him lay down in a corner and I close the door to my
bedroom, cutting
> him off socially from me and my cats - whom he adores.
>
> >
> > > He barges past you when
> > > you're going thru a door so that he makes it thru first,
same with
> hallways.
> >
> > Again, don't let him *do* that if it bothers you.
>
> If I can catch him, I clamp his head between my knees so that he
can't barge
> thu, but he still always tries.
>
> >
> > > And if he isn't getting immediate attention, he claws you
with his paws
> > > until you look at him and acknowledge him. Sometimes it
really hurts -
> > > especially when you're sleeping.
> >
> > Don't. Let. Him. Do. That.
> >
> > >... He's unique. He's stubborn, he doesn't forget things,
he's
> dominant, but he's
> > > such a little lover.
> >
> > He's not unique. He isn't even unusual. He may be, perhaps,
a little
> > bit spoiled, a little bit over-indulged, but you can change
that if you
> > want to.
> >
>
> Okay, I agree to the spoiling part. That's my fault. Now I'm
trying to fix
> it because no one will come to my house. He's too rambunctious.
>
> > > Has anyone else ever had similar issues and if so, how did
you conquer
> > > them???
> >
> > You've got most of the puzzle pieces already. You know what
he does
> > that you consider unacceptable, you know what sets him off and
how he
> > behaves, and you know what he'll work for. Arrange things so
he gets
> > what he wants by doing what you want and isn't rewarded for
behavior you
> > want to discourage.
> >
> > Stay - use a leash; start slowly and close up; only give
commands you
> > can physically enforce; reward for success
> >
> > Doorways - "sit"/"stay"/"okay"; practice; be consistent;
reward
> >
> > Demanding attention - ignore him; crate him or leave the room
if he
> > persists (without discussion).
> >
>
> I'm taking your words to heart. I'll let you know the progress.
Thank you.
>
> kili
>
>



The Puppy Wizard
2004-05-11 02:41:11 EST
HOWEDY Master Of Deception blankman,

<*E@dog-play.com> wrote in message
news:2gb25nFnrqoU1@uni-berlin.de...
> On Mon, 10 May 2004 15:07:33 -0700 Atom1 <cknospam@yahoo.com>
whittled these words:
>
> > What is going on with him?

Humping except for breeding and puppy
masturbation is a SYMPTOM of anxiHOWESNESS.

> > Is it dominance or sexual or relaxing.

The OP's dog is over two years old.
He's been abused and mishandled and
he's got anxiHOWESNESS behavior problems.

FIGGER IT HOWET.

> > I told him "no"

Right. THAT'LL make him MOORE anxiHOWES.

> > but am not sure if I should let him.

Perhaps the OP needs mental health care.

> You are making far too much of this.

That so? The Amazing Puppy Wizard
sez you need mental health care.

> Humping of people should not be
> permitted simply because it is rude.

"Rude" ain't got NUTHIN to do with it.

> Self pleasuring is normal for
> humans and dogs alike.

That so? This ain't "self pleasuring."

> If it makes you uncomforable in public

Some of you dog lovers have toys for
your anxiHOWES dogs to expiate their
anxiHOWESNESS on.

> you can distract him

You mean like tellin him "NO!".

> or offer him some other occupation.

Like a shock collar with vibrating tip.

> If you prefer him not to do it in your
> presence walk away.

What do you suppose the kid with the
bull mastiff dog attached to his back is
gonna do if she walks away?

> > I don't want my dog to be a little pervert.

Sex got NUTHIN to do with this. The dog
becomes anxiHOWES arHOWEND children
cause he's been scolded and choked to
make him be NICE with them. The humpin
is an anxiHOWESNESS relief mechanism.

> To be a "pervert" one has to have sexual
> moral values.

You beat your dog in the face with
a shepherd's crook and shock and
jerk and choke them on your pronged
spiked pinch choke collar and spray
aversives in their faces and lie abHOWET
it and you're talkin morals?

> There is no reason a dog would develop those.

Think allelomimetic behavior.

Does that mean that every dog is gonna do that?
Like professor scruff shakes little dog Maxie The
Magnificent FuriHOWESLY Obsessive Compulsive
Masturbator.

> Your ability to deal with the situation might
> improve if you meet the facts and the terminology
> directly.

You mean words will cue obsessive
compulsive anxiHOWESNES.

> Its his penis that sticks out

You mean his tallywhacker?

> and its normal for male dogs.

No. Firstly, this dog has been NEUTERED
ages ago. Secondly, dogs do not become
arHOWESED unless there's a bitch in season.

> YOu can always decide what kind of behavior
> you do or do not what to see in your dog.

You think so? ALWAYS? You mean to
say "YOU CAN ALWAYS DECIDE WHAT
KIND OF BEHAVIORS YOU SEE IN YOUR
DOG?"

Is that to say that all behavior problems
are CAUSED by MISHANDLING?

> It helps, however, to step back from
> the emotional reaction and recognize
> it is a matter of your discomfort,

Oh. I see. You didn't mean you can
train all behaviors you meant you can
ACCEPT and IGNORE all behaviors
of the cunning domestic puppy dog
you don't have the intellect to HOWEtwit.

> not any "perversion" on the part of the dog.

Let's talk abHOWET anxiHOWESNESS
behavior problems. Like humpin kids.

> > I don't know how to get him to stop it,

That's EZ. Just read steve walker's CASE
HISTORY of Sampson. Look at kelly aka
culprit's and suja's and leah's and liea's
and marcel's and well, everyWON'S dog
here abHOWETS. They've all had dangerHOWES
aggression problems.

They're all DEATHLY ILL from STRESS
INDUCED AUTO-IMMUNE DISEASE
seizures and OCD'S.

> > or if he is sexually frustrated or what?

Just plain old frustrated from mishandling.

> > Please some one enlighten me.

THAT ain't gonna happen cause decent
people do not post here abHOWETS.

> > I have never heard of this sort of
> > behavior before.

It's pretty common here abHOWETS.
Ask professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM
"SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM 'NO!'
into ITS face for 5 seconds and lock IT
in a box for ten minutes reflection" dermer.

> > He's an only pet raised and around people
> > (almost exclusively) since the day he was
> > born.
>
> It is normal and common.

No. It's common but it's not NORMAL.

> There are various reasons for the behavior.

Unless the dog is breeding the REASON
is anxiHOWESNESS.

> ONe dog can do it for one reason one
> time, and another reason another time.

Probably so. But your dogs are all neutered.
That leaves ONLY STRESS as the REASON.

> Kind of like eating - sometimes its because
> you are hungry, sometimes you are seeking
> to trigger an emotion, sometimes it is social
> bonding and sometimes it is even social status.

Yeah. Let's talk abHOWET humpin.

> Since sometimes its simply boredom

Bored dogs sleep.

> you can always try teahing various tricks

Like twister? HOWEabHOWETsumpthin
with whips and spankin like laura arlove likes?

> and games that will egnage his mind

You think his tallywhacker needs his mind engaged?

> and increase his physcial exercise to give
> him another source of relaxing endorphins.

What happens when they wear off?

> Diane Blackman
> http://dog-play.com/


Date: 2004-02-12 09:08:24 PST
HOWEDY Atom1,

"Atom1" <cknospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c0fhtb$u8a$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it...
>
> Hey we're going through a similar thing

Well good for you! You gonna tell us
HOWE you got your dog to DO that?

> but we live in the country

So that means you don't have to worry abHOWET it?

> unfortunately the dog wants to play with the geese.

The Puppy Wizard has seen gooses do some
pretty good damage to dogs, and vice versa.


Date: 5/22/03 11:24:35 PM Eastern
Daylight Time
From: p@cfl.rr.com
To: Witsenddog@aol.com

Well, let me tell you, your Wits' End
Dog Training Method works.

My dog, Dasie, Loves to chase chameleons
around the barbecue on the patio. I
used this system on four different occasions.

When she went out today, she looked
everywhere else but the barbecue.
Amazing, just amazing.

I will write to Amanda about the video.

I am really excited to learn more, and
understand. Maybe just a little reassurance
that I am going about it the right way.

Thanks again
Paul

> Everytime we try too put a block on the fence wall

You mean a barrier...

> it's almost as if he's already scheming.

INDEED. He IS. That's called barrier frustration
syndrome. That's HOWE COME katra, a well
known and highly respected liar and dog abuser
here abHOWETS can't train her dogs not to
chase her FHOWEL.

> Each new effort will keep him coralled until he
> figures something else out.

CONsequently INCREASING his desire to GET
the gooses. You're in the right place for askin
this kinda question. We got LOTS of regular
posters here abHOWETS who've got the same
same same same problems for the same same
same same REASONS.

> One thing that worked for a while, taking this
> plastic pool, shaking it at him making scary
> noises with it and then propping it up against
> the wall,

Well, that SHOWENDS brilliant. What do you
do for an encore? HOWE abHOWET a little
tap dance, a scruff shake and lockin IT in a
box for ten minutes reflection?

> this has worked great to deter him from garbage bags

INDEED... so long as you don't turn your back
on him and leave the garbage HOWET.

> (shaking them at him so they make scary noises),

To make your dog feel comfortable safe and SHOWEND.

> he won't go near those even if there's a t-bone in there.

Until you turn your back on it... like the gooses.

> Another thing that worked-for a while-

Wonderful! We can hardly contain HOWERselves!

> was waiting on the other side of the fence and
> hosing him down when he'd go out.

Yeah. Well, NHOWE you know HOWE COME
your dog tries to escape and attack the gooses
just like katra's dogs.

> Anyway

You mean anyHOWE. Don't you.

> you get either get an outdoor kennel

To lock the dog up cause you can't train IT
even after The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students
told you HOWE they done it EZ GENTLY NEARLY
INSTANTLY and for FREE, withHOWET HURTIN
and INTIMIDAING their dogs.

> or get the wire or wireless containment system.

You mean HURT the dog someMOORE, atom1,
despite that we've got several DEAD DOGS we've
ENTERTRAINED TO DEATH like that.

> You don't have to put the wire underground if it's
> frozen, you can just run it around the perimeter.

That so? Is that what you use on your dog to
teach It not to try to murder your gooses?

> I know all the options cost $

Yeah. All EXXXCEPT training the dog NEARLY
INSTANTLY for FREE by studing your FREE
copy of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual.

> and that certainly is a concern,

Only if you're a goddamned MENTAL CASE, atom1.

> but if you think about it, a fine 2X and it's paid for.

Yeah. Or the dog may bolt through the shock fence
like Misty's DEAD DOG Peach or bite your guests
like liea altshuller's dog Cubbe or attack children
like granville's DEAD DOG done cause she was
shocking and jerking and choking IT like HOWE
HOWER DOG LOVERS RECOMMEND, atom1.

> I hope you figure it out,

EXXXCUSE The Puppy Wizard?

WHO gotta figger WHAT HOWET???

> we're still working with ours.

BWEEEHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

GOOD LUCK, atom1. You're in good company!

> Michelle

Date: 2004-02-25 12:58:31 PST


HOWEDY atom1,

"Atom1" <cknospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c1iteh$hec$1@lacerta.tiscalinet.it...
>
> Hey that's just what happened to us recently.

Ain't that cunnin.

> We live out in the sticks and a farmer came up
> and told us our escaping dog had killed 2 of his
> geese,

Of curse he was probably lyin...

> strays had also killed his geese he told us,

Too many words, eh?

> but he saw our dog playing with the birds also-he
> obviously did not catch him in the act.

Right. NO PROBLEMO.

> Our dog came home with one of the geese but it
> had part of the breast taken out-it was about 40#
> even wtih the missing piece.

Your dog musta fHOWEND it.

> Anyway,

You mean anyHOWE.

> I can't believe our dog would have
> intentionally killed it,

Of curse not!

> since it was apparently eaten.

Perhaps he stopped by the shelter an gave
them half of it, atom1? You got any other brilliant
EXXXCUSES?

> I suspect he just drug it home after another dog
> ate and left.

RIGHT.

> I'm not to keen on whether a dog would kill
> (intentionally as in hunting) or if even he did
> it while "playing."

A dog is a dog.

> He is well fed (and prefers his eggs cooked)

And his goose raw.

> so it's not for food.

You been takin anti psychotic medications?

> He is well socialized with other animals and his
> buddies up the road come party in our yard, no
> problem on territory.

You had any gooses over to visit?

> I am not in denial that my baby could be a killer,

Of curse not!

> but I'mn more inclined that he's a Lenny.

Right... He didn't do it.

> He's a 100# Bullmastiff/Hound mix (he's a love
> child of a hunting dog that got to my bitch and
> obviously where he got his jumping ability, hmm
> maybe that's where the hunting came from too).

BWEEHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

> We paid the farmer 200 euro.

BWEEEEEHAHAHAHAHHAAAA!!!

> Michelle

BWEEEEEEHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

> Italy

Welcome to The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Forum School
Of HARD KNOCKS!

"The Methods, Principles, And Philosophy Of Behavior
Never Change, Or They'd Not Be Scientific And Would
Not Obtain Consistent, Reliable, Fast, Effective Results
For All Handler's And All Dogs, As Taught In Your FREE
Copy Of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual." The Puppy Wizard.
<{} ; ~ ) >

> Italy

EVEN in Italy, atom1.

The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >


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