Dog Discussion: I Tried The Jerry Method To Reduce Barking

I Tried The Jerry Method To Reduce Barking
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Estel J. Hines
2004-02-10 13:02:41 EST
Until i read the Jerry method of Bark reductioon, it went something like
this with our 11 month old puppy "Yoshi"

Yoshi: Bark, bark,
us: HUSH Youshi
Yoshi Bark, bark......................
us: Hush Youshi
Yoshi BARK, BARK, BARK, .................................it stopped when
Yoshi got tired barking


We decided to try the Jerry method

:Yoshi: BARK, BARK
US: GOOD Yoshi, Good Boy, who is it?

Yoshi Bark, Bark
US: It's ok, good boy Yoshi, We know them

Yosh without fail, now stops after we say that

I must say, it is so much more fun, when we can praise him, to deal with
things like this

Thanks Jerry

ps: We are just starting to go thru the Jerry Papers, and learn how to live
with our son "Yoshi", whom we love very much.
--
Best Regards,

Estel J. Hines
e*s@comcast.net



Guardenman
2004-02-10 14:09:48 EST
The Puppy Wizard wrote:

>
> HOWER dog lovers would prefer to choke shock
> and spray aversives in their face and lock them in
> boxes and scruff shake and jerk and choke them
> on pronged spiked pinch choke collars:

That's what I used to do, but the mail man complained to his union so I
had to stop.



>
> >> and that they've run into dogs they had to adapt
> >> their methods for.
>
> Oh? You mean like professor dermer?:
>
> "At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
> But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
> shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
> then you will have achieved too things.
>
> First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
> and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.
>
> How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
> minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
> biting.
>
> **********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************
>
> When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
> forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
> closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
> before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
>
> "No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
> to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works."
>
> > kayJay
>
> You see KayJay, we got mostly liars dog abusers
> and active incurable long term mental patients who
> hurt and kill dogs and call The Puppy Wizard's FREE
> WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students
> LIARS and FORGERIES by The Puppy Wizard.
>
> Here's a PARTIAL list of CERTIFEIDD MENTALLY
> ILL DOG ABUSRS and LIARS who are respected
> posters here abHOWETS:
>
> WORDS OF WISDOM
> from our own Lynn Kosmakos
> 1200mg Of Lithium And 50 mg Of Zoloft Every Day
> For Twenty Years
>
> I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
>
> "I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
> requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day.
> I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
> while happily sharing pertinent information I have learned.
>
> But if I were ever to post such sh*t, I would hope that every
> other reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."
>
> "Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
> the right to participate in by observing the easily
> understood rules and contributing to in constructive ways."
>
> Lynn K.
>
> -----------------------------------------
>
> LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar conversation on
> Mental problems. LYNN AND LOIS Almost 50 years on mental
> illness medications combined
>
> -----------------------------------------
>
> > But I think what Lois was referring to was the fact that
> > Darlene actually stated at some point that she was
> > bipolar--and, IIRC, that meds did not work for her--so she
> > was prone to major-league ups and downs and sudden
> > enthusiasms..
>
> "It wasn't that meds didn't work for her - she wouldn't take
> them. I particularly remember a comment she made about
> scarey side effects of Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on
> it, I think I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
> any side effect is far less frightening than the very real
> dangers of life without it."
>
> Lynn K.
> -----------------------------------------
>
> LYNN K. and the UNQUIET MIND
> ----------------------------------------
>
> From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com) Subject: Re: Where is
> Darlene? Date: 1999/09/03
>
> BoxHill wrote:
>
> > I know I am totally off topic here, but have you read
> > "The Unquiet Mind"?
>
> Yeah. It's interesting, but kind of watered down for the
> mass market, if you know what I mean. There's really quite
> a lot of good work out there and decent research. Thank
> God.
>
> Lynn K.
> ---------------------------------------
>
> MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION "KUCKOO!! CUCKOO!!!" MOTHER (LOIS E.)
> 22 YEARS on TRICYCLICS, DAUGHTER BIPOLAR... YOU DO THE MATH
>
> "What's really terrific, is now days you can say proudly, 'I
> take anti-depressives'"
>
> -------------------------------------
>
> From: Gary & lois Edwards (garyl@bmi.net) Subject: Re: Where
> is Darlene? Date: 1999/09/02
>
> BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS
>
> "I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics for about
> 22 years. Been there, done that, have the t-shirt to prove
> it. What's really terrific, is now days you can say proudly,
>
> "I take anti-depressives". Back when I started taking them
> it was seen as something shameful. If you cut your leg off,
> and were lying there with a bleeding stump, you'd never let
> the word depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
> "You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have any pain
> meds.....you could become addicted."
>
> The good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's father
> locked her in her room back in the twenties because she was
> simple. A shame that medication probably would have helped
> her live a normal life.
>
> No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's personality,
> she has a way of making grandiose plans when at the top of
> her manic cycle....as does my daughter. I wasn't saying that
> anyone with problems could be counted on to be
> irresponsible."
>
> Lois E.
> -------------------------------------
>
> MENTAL ILLNESS IN RPD* Mental illness is a public issue in
> these newsgroups. People are always running around calling
> other people mentally ill and diagnosing their illnesses.
>
> I think it's only fair that we have an accurate list of who is
> and who isn't mentally ill, so that we can avoid any
> misunderstandings and promote group harmony.
>
> Updated KUCKOO!! KUCKOOO! DING! DING! DING! list as of
> 12/21/2003:
>
> list of confirmed or suspected mentally ill (crazy) Regulars
> Most of whom are women or homosexuals
>
> RPD CRAZY PERSON ROLL CALL and BIOS
> =============================================
> =============================================
>
> NESSA NUTCASE MVP (Most Valuable Psycho) of dog newsgroups
>
> Successfully dethroned MaryBeth as MVP
>
> Nessa blames all the problems in her life moston ADD ADHD Or
> some other empowering acronym which encapsulates her futility
> for her
>
> Her dog bagel, a large newf mix has used her house liberally
> as a toilet since February of 2002. Drives a 2003 Toyota
> Matrix, owns a house in suburban MD, recently got a
> raise/promotion to US goverment grade 11 (circa $50,000) and
> promptly decided she couldn't afford her two dogs. With help
> from non crazy regular (Paulette) and witchcraft practicing
> regular Sara Sionnach, Nessa has decided to keep her dogs for
> the time being. She is undergoing training from Janet "Nice
> Abdominal Surgery and getting Run Over for the Family Pet."
> Her results have not been dramatic.
>
> CrAzy ReGulAr helping CraZy ReGular Leah helping Nessa
>
> =============================
>
> On Fri, 7 Jun 2002 8:40:08 -0400, Leah wrote
>
> Nessa usenet@nessa.info wrote:
> "As far as the depression goes, it's not related to Bagel
> at all. I have chronic major depression and I'm just having
> a flare."
>
> Leah asks "Are you on any medication?"
>
> Nessa responds
>
> yes for depression, mood swings and ADHD. I have been for
> over 10 years.
>
> --nessa
>
> Nessa is Fat as well as crazy =============================
> "For what it's worth...
>
> I picked up 30 pounds when I started Dilantin. I picked up
> (just recently) another 20 on risperidol.
>
> I hate that I was a size 8-10 before meds and now I am
> solidly (pun intended) a 22-24.
>
> Sad part is, the side effects are worth it. The positive
> effects are too much to part with."
>
> --nessa
> ============================
>
> NESSA'S HAS A GREAT NEUROPSYCH ==============================
>
> Hi, I have a great neuropsych in Arlington Va. He is at the
> Rosyln Metro Station. His name is Martin Stein 1911 N Fort
> Myer Dr. Suite 907 Arlington Va 22209 703-807-2471 email
> 75120.2296@compuserve.com
>
> Marty is wonderful. He is really the best. He has also
> given me permission to post his infomation on this
> Newsgroup. If you call him and see him by all means tell
> him Nessa sent you.
>
> --nessa
> ================================
>
> ROTATE YOUR STIMULANTS =============================
>
> from: Nessa (nessa@ix.netcom.com)
>
> Hi,
>
> I often have to rotate my stimulants. You can become used to
> them and sometimes need a different one for a while. Until
> I got on my Desoxyn I rotated Ritilan and Dexedrine every 3
> months or so.
>
> It is true that anti-depressants or anti-anxiety pills will
> help with the stimulants so your DR is not wrong. However,
> perhaps she needs to check into the idea that a switch from
> cylert to something else might be in order.
>
> warm thoughts, Nessa
> =============================
>
> =============================================
> =============================================
>
> Lois E. (of Gary and Lois fame)
>
> Lois' has been on tricyclic antidepressants for approximately
> 25 years. This may be a record. Husband is a cop but there is
> no evidence that he beats the crap out of her, or that he has
> for 25 years.
>
> Had a traumatic experience as a child with a horse running
> wild in the Pantry and living room. In recent years, shot
> neighbor's dog from point blank range while it was chewing on
> her pigmy goat, teaching son to solve problems with the
> neighbor's using shock and awe levels of violence."
>
> BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS
>
> "I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics for about
> 22 years. Been there, done that, have the t-shirt to prove
> it. What's really terrific, is now days you can say proudly,
> "I take anti-depressives". Back when I started taking them
> it was seen as something shameful. If you cut your leg off,
> and were lying there with a bleeding stump, you'd never let
> the word depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
> "You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have any pain
> meds.....you could become addicted." The good old days. I
> actually had a Great Aunt who's father locked her in her
> room back in the twenties because she was simple. A shame
> that medication probably would have helped her live a normal
> life. No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
> personality, she has a way of making grandiose plans when at
> the top of her manic cycle....as does my daughter. I wasn't
> saying that anyone with problems could be counted on to be
> irresponsible."
>
> Lois E.
>
> =============================================
> =============================================
>
> Kelly/ culprit
>
> Systems engineer at Microsoft, owner of two pitbulls,
> proving that Bill Gates does not discriminate against crazy
> people or pit bull owners.
>
> psychotic features, panic and more. Coming forward so that
> others like her will have the strength to do the same. Like
> Charlie Wilkes, she is one of our most entertraining
> regulars
>
> Here, kelly/culprit talks to Mustang Sally about her mental
> illness/crazy problems. Sally is being rude and
> condescending (as usual) and trying to make kelly/culprit
> feel bad for being crazy, aka wacked in the head
>
> culprit standing up for herself against rude and condescending
> Mustang Sally -----------------------------------------------
>
> I WON'T DENY MY PROBLEMS, MUSTANG SALLY!
>
> "but i stand by the fact that OCD is an illness, major
> depression with psychotic features certainly is, panic
> disorder is too. and the other stuff just makes it all the
> more fun.
>
> i don't wallow in it. i'm just now learning to accept it,
> because ignoring it wasn't working out too well. i need to
> do that to make changes to my life so that i can become
> healthy. and you say you're not trying to be condescending,
> but you're doing it again. what i read was, (my
> paraphrasing) "people who think they're mentally ill are
> wallowing in their disabilities and letting them consume
> their life"
>
> you come across as though you would be able to handle any of
> these illnesses, and anyone who can't is just copping out.
> well we're all different. and i don't accept your idea that
> i would have a more productive life if i denied my problems.
> i tried it for years, and believe me, it didn't work very
> well."
>
> -kelly aka culprit systems engineer @ Microsoft
> ----------------------------------------------
>
> =============================================
> =============================================
>
> MaryBeth FMVP (former most valuable psycho)
>
> (super psycho bitch lunatic queen of the mentally fucked in
> the head)
>
> Has contributed greatly to the annual profit results at
> several large pharmaceutical corps has taken virtually every
> mentally ill (crazy) drug treatment in the book, and then
> some: prozac, zoloft, amitryptiline, Buspar, Xanax, effexor,
> paxil, HRT, wellbutrin, tranquilizers, clomid,
>
> MaryBeth has suffered from or been:
>
> TIDAL WAVES OF PMS
>
> suicidal, agoraphobic, tidal waves of PMS, mood swings,
> turned into a hermit, bloated, just real angry, hubby afraid
> of her, high blood pressure, divorced, "raving bitch"
> "zoloft zombie" for four years, "living through layers and
> layers of gauze," chain smoker, buzzing, weight gain,
> fatigue, terrible dry mouth, dull headaches, fuzzy brain,
> lack of concentration..etc. severe depression, severe
> insomnia, Panic ALL the time, crying, not sleeping, you name
> it...etc...
>
> MaryBeth (on being seriously f'd in the head aka mentally ill)
> aka cuckoo! kuckoo! ding! ding! ding! aka a superpsychotic
> bitch from hell
>
> I RAN OVER EVERYONE IN MY PATH
>
> "I know for a fact I went thru years of being overly
> sensitive, being a b*tch, being self centered, being self
> pitying, you name it, I was a wreck and I ran over everyone
> in my path."
>
> "<G> I do know the power of meds, especially on a long term
> basis, and it's not pretty. You become another person, if
> it's not the correct med for you.
>
> --All the best,
> MaryBeth
>
> DON'T TAKE ULTRAM AND ZOLOFT TOGETHER
>
> "Yup Diane, I am taking Zoloft, and my Rheumatologist told
> me that taking Ultram with it can cause seizures."
>
> "I have all the symptoms.I am suicidal at times (cyclical)
> have severe insomnia, 'crawly' skin etc. I have an appt to
> see my doc next Friday to test for menopause."
>
> --MaryBeth
>
> ME NOT SO HORNY
>
> "I noticed that antidepressants cut libido into the dead
> zone and I had no real emotions, like not laughing at funny
> stuff, couldn't cry either.....except about my suicidal
> thoughts (but at the time I thought there was no other way
> out)."
>
> --MaryBeth
>
> NEW TO GROUP
>
> "Hi, new to group, just starting Clomid today. I talked with
> RE and pharmacist re: zoloft (50 mg daily) and ineraction
> with Clomid. They reported none. Not sure about the prozac
> tho. Gonna poat a new message to intorduce myself :)"
>
> --MaryBeth <still feeling
> like herself> <G>
>
> WASTED 10 YEARS
>
> "I wasted about 10 years of my life, and lost many many
> treasured ppl and things. Please don't do the same.
> (((((((SCOUT))))))))))
>
> --MaryBeth
>
> WAS HORRIBLE
>
> "Slowly but surely my depression got worse and worse. They
> put me on meds for it, and all along kept telling me to wait
> on the TKR, as 'it really wasn't that bad.....yet". HA!" The
> depression got so bad, and lots of other things happened and
> my ex and I would up divorced four years after our move. It
> was horrible. The hardest thing I have eve gone thru"
>
> --MaryBeth
>
> =============================================
> =============================================
>
> Theresa Willis
>
> (paxil, depression, robot displacement) Theresa is a gang
> banger who comes out of cutesy robot mode when it's time to
> gang attack people with her pal shelly Victim is usually
> Leah, but may be a random person.
>
> =============================================
> =============================================
>
> shelly couvrette
>
> Severe OCD, depression, prescribed Paxil for mental illness,
> but claims she does not take it, resulting in an obsessive
> basket case online persona. Posts more than any other female
> in all dog newsgroups
>
> (familial mental illness, possibly related to family bed)
> obsessively starves her dogs according to friends, family,
> strangers and 3 different vets, but not herself (see
> below). Still thinks of herself as a five year old
> ballerina despite the fact that she is a fat adult in her
> mid thirties.
>
> PAGE ALL THE WAY DOWN FOR BONUS COVERAGE
>
> =============================================
> =============================================
>
> lynn kosmakos
>
> RPD* Enemy of Dogs #1
>
> (Lithium, Zoloft, bipolar, manic, depression) will "put down a
> biter as fast as anyone" yet claims to be a saintly dog
> rescuer. Murders dogs because of insurance rates Her brother
> was attacked by a Golden Retriever when she was young. For
> this reason, she murders easily trainable dogs. Condemns dogs
> to death who are easily trainable with her "evaluations." Is
> nice to people in person, but her true dog hating nature comes
> out on newsgroups with extreme clarity.
>
> Advocates shooting dogs on sight, when they chase deer. Sees
> no other option. Her own dog Java had to be shocked with a
> shock collar to keep him from chasing deer.
>
> has been on lithium for approximately 20 years. Zoloft for an
> undetermined number of years
>
> 1200mg LITHIUM 50mg ZOLOFT
>
> "I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder
> (manic-depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of
> Zoloft every day. I, also, care about dogs and use this
> forum to learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
> information I have learned. But if I were ever to post
> such sh*t, I would hope that every other reader of this
> group would be rightfully outraged."
>
> WE EARN THE RIGHT TO PARTICIPATE
>
> "Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
> the right to participate in by observing the easily
> understood rules and contributing to in constructive ways."
>
> Lynn K.
>
> I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
>
> "I particularly remember
> a comment she made about scarey side effects of Lithium.
> Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think I'm qualified to say
> that the very low risk of any side effect is far less
> frightening than the very real dangers of life without it."
>
> Lynn K.
>
> From: Chris Kosmakos (chriskoz@netcom.com) Subject: Re: Prozac
> - Good medication or no?
>
> I TAKE A SIMILAR DRUG MYSELF
>
> "Yes, for very specific behaviorial problems. I would have
> to trust my vet and behaviorist a lot, and be very sure
> that I had exhausted every other option before I used
> Prozac to deal with a dog problem - and I take a similar
> drug, Zoloft, myself."
>
> Lynn K.
>
> =============================================
> =============================================
>
> Leah
>
> Effexor for chronic depression, in denial about being
> mentally ill. Has taken several other mentally ill
> medications before settling on effexor for her chronic
> mental problems. Leah is improving as a dog trainer and
> wants to open her own training/boarding kennel soon and
> write a book.
>
> This drives her fellow mentally ill regulars nuts (read
> shelly Lynn K.), especially if Leah succeeds while other
> loonies continue to sit on their fat behinds
>
> Leah is a relatively stable crazy person but she just might
> be the agent that drives others to jump off of a cliff
>
> =============================================
> =============================================
>
> Tara Green
>
> Tara Green is a dog trainer of sorts in New York City left
> rpd* claiming that she could not afford internet access and/or
> a computer, but her story is of value nonetheless
>
> was on antidepressants for a few years prior to her
> marriage. During her marriage, she learned a lot: "With the
> therapist I saw during my marriage I learned that some
> situational depressions are masked as chemical simply
> because of our too human ability to prolong the impact of
> the causal situations indefinitely"
>
> Sounds like more denial, see leah
>
> Tara is also a drunk who has also had problems with other
> substances
>
> TARA on being a drunk/substance abuser:
>
> "Tara (who had some problems with quite a
> few substances as well, but who thinks they are separate
> issues.....so which camp does that put me in???)"
>
> "Believe it or not, some people don't have
> a problem with drugs even though they are alcoholics. I'm
> not one of those people, but they do exist."
>
> aka, tara has problems with both
>
> =============================================
> =============================================
>
> Kevin Michael Vail
>
> various mental illness drugs, started with zoloft, didn't
> like that, then went to antidepressant, stopped after
> sufficent side effects, now on SSRI and in therapy Kevin is
> a homosexual but there is no evidence that this is the cause
> of him being crazy
>
> =============================================
> =============================================
>
> Furpaw
>
> (SSRI, cognitive therapy)
> otherwise, a fairly boring and nondescript crazy person
>
> =============================================
> =============================================
>
> Chris Jung
>
> (Prozac and Welbutrin,
> cognitive therapy)
>
> another very boring nutcase
>
> =============================================
> =============================================
>
> Charlie Wilkes
>
> drugged out, crazy, fucked up all his life, Christ the shit
> he's been through including psych wards and electroshock
> treatments but now pulling down major cash as a business
> consultant. Triumphing over adversity, with a damn good life
> and a well trained dog (very much unlike Leah) One of our
> most lucid regulars, despite (or maybe because of?) a
> penchant for phat philly blunts.
>
> =============================================
> =============================================
>
> Karen DuChateaux aka Karibear
>
> suffered from clinical depression for years until some drug
> or something brought her out of it. Some of her best friends
> "are certifiable" and have various degrees of psychoses.
> Familial mental disability. Refuses to say whether or not
> she is currently using drug or cognitive therapy for mental
> illness.
>
> =============================================
> =============================================
>
> Mike "DumbOxDumb" Dufort
>
> threatened non violent dog expert Jerry Howe with Mike's
> fully armed US Army Platoon. Threatened to bring his platoon
> to Jerry's HOWSE. also OCD (obsessed with Jerry's posts)
>
> =============================================
> =============================================
>
> Jim "Brain Shivers" Sabatke
>
> Jim is currently on Effexor which he takes because of his
> depression/mental problems. Like many of our mental cases,
> Jim has had trouble finding the right med(s) to keep him
> from going kuckoo!! kuckoooo!!! or getting the "brain
> shivers"
>
> From: Jim Sabatke (jsabatke@execpc.com) Subject: Re:
> anyone using Effexor? alt.support.depression.medication
> Date: 2002-11-29 20:25:16 PST
>
> EFFEXOR "I'm on 375 mg/day and it has worked wonders for
> me. The only down side is that my blood pressure has
> elevated somewhat; oh and if I miss a dose by a couple of
> hours the "brain shivers" can be really bad.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Jim
>
> "I switched from Paxil to Effexor about 5 months ago. I
> tapered off of the Paxil and tapered onto the Effexor at
> the same time."
>
> Jim
>
> "After several years on Effexor IR, my pdoc tried switching
> me to XR. I experienced fairly severe Effexor withdrawel
> until I went back to the IR."
>
> Jim
>
> =============================================
> =============================================
>
> <YOUR NAME GOES HERE>
> (please proudly add your name and the drugs/disorders specific
> to you, if you are also mentally ill). If we all come forward,
> we can help each other with our problems. Remember, mental
> illness is nothing to be ashamed of. It's not your fault if
> you have a defective brain which may cause you to act like an
> extreme hypocrite and/or idiot and/or robot without your being
> aware of it).
>
> Also, please notify us if you are *not* mentally ill, and have
> been added to this by mistake, so we can make our corrections
> and remove you from the crazy person list.
>
> ===========================================
>
> mental health weekly
>
> -- This has been a production of dogtv.com networks your world
> leader in dog entertraining
>
> this is michael reporting live... from dogtv.com networks
> http://dogtv.com
>
> A SPECIAL BONUS ON shelly the librarian at Indiana U.
>
> ========================================================
> SHELLY IS THE ONLY ONE WHO DOESN'T THINK HATTIE IS STARVING
>
> EMACIATED, VET WAS SURPRISED
>
> "when i got harriet she was emaciated, so
> i asked my vet for advice on slowly adding weight to her.
> six months later i took harriet in for her spring check-up
> and my vet was surprised that at how thin she still was."
> --shelly couvrette
>
> STILL VET SHOPPING
>
> "<raises hand> i've been told by three different vets that
> harriet (53lbs) is *way* too skinny. we're still
> vet-shopping, BTW."
>
> --shelly couvrette
>
> THE OL' "I'M STARVING" ROUTINE
>
> "if you really can't resist it when your dog pulls
> the "i'm starving!" routine <G>, you can give him some
> frozen green beans or a small amount of plain pureed
> pumpkin. i would also suggest putting the food out of his
> sight. i keep my food--still inside the bags, which are
> tightly rolled down--inside trash cans in the closed
> laundry room. that keeps it fresh and keeps it out of my
> dogs' sight."
>
> --shelly couvrette
>
> POSITIVELY STARVED
>
> "heh. i get the opposite response. people think
> that poor little harriet is positively starved to death.
> i've actually had people stop me in the pet supply shop and
> tell me that i need to fatten her up!"
>
> --shelly couvrette
>
> WHO WANTS TO BE TOLD YOU ARE HURTING YOUR WIDDLE PRECIOUS?
>
> "i think that may be part of the problem. who
> wants to go to a vet who tells you you're hurting your
> .widdle precious? i think the other part is that some vets
> really don't *realize* that what they consider proper
> weight is fat. after having been told by a couple of vets
> that my dogs are too thin, i've got a dim view of vets on
> that topic."
>
> --shelly couvrette
>
> JUST A BITE WON'T HURT
> --shelly's mom
>
> FEED HER AND I'LL RIP YOUR ARM OFF, BITCH
> --shelly
>
> "my mom is kinda that way, but not *as* bad.
> she thinks that harriet is awfully skinny, so feeding her
> table snax is okay. she tells me that just a bite won't
> hurt."
>
> --shelly couvrette
>
> NOBODY IS STARVING FAT PI.G SHELLY
>
> NOBODY WILL STOP SHELLY ON THE STREET AND TELL HER SHE IS
> STARVING HERSELF shelly's fat face
> http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette/Wshelly2.jpg
> =======================================================
>
> There are a lot of big fat women on these groups who starve
> their dogs out of vanity, but shelly is a special case.
>
> shelly is moor.e than a little bit beyond the pale
>
> Shelly has OCD, and maybe she's just a little obsessive about
> measuring out extra tiny and discrete portions with a tiny
> measuring cup, or counting out pieces of green bean or pumpkin
> that she gives her dogs when they give her the "I'm Starving"
> routine. When grandma tried to give Hattie a snack, shelly
> probably went apeshit, because it was in violation of her
> Obsessive need to oversee every tiny calorie that goes into
> her widdle precious' mouth.
>
> shelly's a special case, a special kind of dog abuser
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> --- --------------
>
> this marks the end of the rec.pets.dogs.* crazy person list
>
> copyright 2003 dogtv.com networks you are free to reproduce
> this list

--

Quote of the month

. When trouble arises and things look bad, there is
always one individual who perceives a solution and is
willing to take command. Very often, that individual is
crazy.


Ok two quotes:

"The SAT losing the analogy section is like Christmas
losing fruitcake — it may have been “tried and true, but nobody really
ever liked it that much.”
Jon Zeitlin, director of Kaplan’s New SAT test-prep program,.

Gwen Watson
2004-02-10 14:29:23 EST


"Estel J. Hines" wrote:

>
> with our son "Yoshi", whom we love very much.
> --
> Best Regards,
>
> Estel J. Hines
> ejhines@comcast.net

Your son barks? It sounds like you need
to make an appointment to see a Neuro-psychiatrist.

Gwen


Estel J. Hines
2004-02-10 15:42:25 EST
We do consider him to be our son, and love him, as we love our children.

--
Best Regards,

Estel J. Hines
e*s@comcast.net

"Gwen Watson" <gwen@ig.utexas.edu> wrote in message
news:40293113.1C5804E7@ig.utexas.edu...
>
>
> "Estel J. Hines" wrote:
>
> >
> > with our son "Yoshi", whom we love very much.
> > --
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Estel J. Hines
> > ejhines@comcast.net
>
> Your son barks? It sounds like you need
> to make an appointment to see a Neuro-psychiatrist.
>
> Gwen
>



The Puppy Wizard
2004-02-10 22:04:31 EST
Thank you Estel. Just ask if you need any additional FREE heelp.

Yours, Jerry.

"Estel J. Hines" <ejhines@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:w86dna9lBfNZgbTdRVn-hA@comcast.com...
> Until i read the Jerry method of Bark reductioon, it went
something like
> this with our 11 month old puppy "Yoshi"
>
> Yoshi: Bark, bark,
> us: HUSH Youshi
> Yoshi Bark, bark......................
> us: Hush Youshi
> Yoshi BARK, BARK, BARK, .................................it
stopped when
> Yoshi got tired barking
>
>
> We decided to try the Jerry method
>
> :Yoshi: BARK, BARK
> US: GOOD Yoshi, Good Boy, who is it?
>
> Yoshi Bark, Bark
> US: It's ok, good boy Yoshi, We know them
>
> Yosh without fail, now stops after we say that
>
> I must say, it is so much more fun, when we can praise him, to
deal with
> things like this
>
> Thanks Jerry
>
> ps: We are just starting to go thru the Jerry Papers, and learn
how to live
> with our son "Yoshi", whom we love very much.
> --
> Best Regards,
>
> Estel J. Hines
> ejhines@comcast.net
>
>



The Puppy Wizard
2004-02-11 10:40:17 EST
HOWEDY gwen honey,

"Estel J. Hines" <ejhines@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:w86dna9lBfNZgbTdRVn-hA@comcast.com...
> Until i read the Jerry method of Bark reductioon, it went
something like
> this with our 11 month old puppy "Yoshi"
>
> Yoshi: Bark, bark,
> us: HUSH Youshi
> Yoshi Bark, bark......................
> us: Hush Youshi
> Yoshi BARK, BARK, BARK, .................................it
stopped when
> Yoshi got tired barking
>
>
> We decided to try the Jerry method
>
> :Yoshi: BARK, BARK
> US: GOOD Yoshi, Good Boy, who is it?
>
> Yoshi Bark, Bark
> US: It's ok, good boy Yoshi, We know them
>
> Yosh without fail, now stops after we say that
>
> I must say, it is so much more fun, when we can praise him, to
deal with
> things like this
>
> Thanks Jerry
>
> ps: We are just starting to go thru the Jerry Papers, and learn
how to live
> with our son "Yoshi", whom we love very much.
> --
> Best Regards,
>
> Estel J. Hines
> ejhines@comcast.net
>

"Gwen Watson" <gwen@ig.utexas.edu> wrote in message
news:40293113.1C5804E7@ig.utexas.edu...
>
>
> "Estel J. Hines" wrote:
> >
> > with our son "Yoshi", whom we love very much.
> > --
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Estel J. Hines
> > ejhines@comcast.net
>
> Your son barks? It sounds like you need
> to make an appointment to see a Neuro-psychiatrist.

You need to have your psychiatrist re evaluate
your ANTI PSYCHOTIC medications and get
the heel HOWETA The Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Forums,
gwen honey.

You recently got a DEAD DOG over a TRAGICK
SHOCK FENCE accident....


> Gwen

Perhaps you could post to "when is MURDERING
a dog apupriate" or the thread "does chopping tails
off of puppys withHOWET anesthesia HURT."

Bye the bye gwen honey, don't forget to put snip
cross posts and trim pertinent text and put NINNYBOY
in the subject header to AVOID EMBARRASSMENT.

The Puppy Wizard. <{}; ~ ) >


"Gwen Watson" <gwen@ig.utexas.edu> wrote in message
news:4029382C.F4768A9@ig.utexas.edu...
>
>
> The Puppy Wizard wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Koehler On Correcting The Housebreaking Backslider.
> >
> > "If the punishment is not severe enough, some of these
> > "backsliders"
>
> Been reading your Koehler book, while sitting on
> the toilet again have you? I think it is time
> to implement "Playboy" or "Penthouse",
> it appears as though you need a life or
> a change. But maybe the "Wallstreet Journal"
> would be of more educational benefit.
>
> Gwen
>

The Puppy Wizard has enjoyed humiliating
and debunking HOWER so called EXXXPERTS
so much HE figgers you'll likeWIZE enjoy the
comedy of death terror and error. The Puppy
Wizard calls this phase of dog trainin ATTRITIION
for past crimes against man, dog, and humanity:

"A CHIN CHUCK" Makes A Resounding
Sound Distraction: "When You Chuck The
Dog The Sound Will Travel Up The Mandible
To The Ears And Give A Popping Sound To
The Dog," captain arthur haggerty.

"Puppy Problems Prevented"
CanineHealthOnline.org. - JERRYIZED

HOWEDY People,

This is the typical bullshit you're gonna find from your
expert veterinary behaviorists and expert dog trainers:

"Question:
I have a 4 month old Great Dane female puppy
who has the habit of biting and catching the lead
in her mouth to shake it in a playful manner when
we walk. I am planning to show her in conformation
and need to break this habit. I rubbed Bitter Apple
on the lead but to no avail. I am using Tabasco pepper
sauce now but it is only partially effective. I try telling
her "leave it" and pulling it downward. Any help you
can give me would be appreciated. "

The world faMOUSE cap'n arthur haggerty replies:

"This is not a difficult problem to solve but"

But our expert can't teach us HOWE to do that
without HURTIN the dog...

" it is very difficult to explain because"

Because he has NO method, only fear force confrontation
intimidation pain and aversives.

" of the many variations and nuances involved in doing so. "

IOW the lying dog abusing Thug needs to couch his words
carefully cause he can only tell us to HURT our dogs, PEOPLE!

" Your use of Bitter Apple and Tabasco sauce is not a bad
move"

That'll endear the dog to working with the handler on lead,
and establish trust love and confidence.

" and I would continue to use it."

First use aversives, and if that don't work, HURT THE DOG to
be fair... cause THAT'S ALL our dog lovers know HOWE to do.

Should take a few minutes to train this dog not to do that...
without hurtin him.

" One correction that can be used is chucking the dog under
the chin when she is biting on the leash. "

Kindly enough advice. When done correctly according to
koehler, our good captain's teacher, the dog will not realize
you are the only one with hands standin there.

" Let me briefly explain the chucking technique."

EXCELLENT! Our dog lovers here don't like to give detailed
advice, so's they don't unintentionally mislead nobody noHOWE.

" Cup your hand so that your thumb and forefinger create a
circle."

Kinda like our professor lying doc scruff shake dermer does
when he relaxes on his couch?

" Your hand comes from the bottom up to the lower portion of
the mandible so the Dane doesn't see it at all. "

Right. Although big enough to take your hand off at the
shoulder, they're big stupid dogs and won't realize it's YOU
who just slapped him in the mouth, and will not even know
you're his tormentor.

" When you chuck the dog the sound will travel up the mandible
to the ears and give a popping sound to the dog. "

AHHH YES! Sound Distraction as taught by the good capn!

" Use a verbal correction at the same time. "

You mean like offering to make a deal?

" Do it as many times as it takes to get the dog to stop. "

I've seen Danes not stop, not for over a year till the dog
was too dangerous to do anything with...except by me.

" You will not be able to deliver that correction every time
so "

So that means the variable reinforcement will negate the
method, antagonize the dog, and exacerbate the anxiety which
is causing the dog to mouth and chew on the lead to defend
himself from being jerked and choked on his pronged spiked
pinch choke collar that is necessary for these monster sized
dogs which I grew up with training serious behavior problems
without hurting them, cause the loser DIES... when you fight
with a dog that's too big to intimidate and hurt enough to
make IT respect your Godlike AUTHORITY.

" supplement it with a collar correction. "

A jerk and choke will teach the dog you are in control... and
the guy in control is the bum who's slappin him around and
jerking and choking him for objecting to being jerked and
choked in the first place, PEOPLE.

" An obedience foundation will certainly help. "

AS STATED.

" Now this is the fastest and longest lasting approach in
solving the problem. "

That so, capn? You're a liar and a dog abuser and got to get
exposed to the akc and run outta business, good buddy. We'll
be seeing a lot of each other in the very near future. This
town ain't big enough for the both of us, cap'n... I'm
worldwide.

Get outta Doge. Jerry Howe, The Puppy Wizard. <{}; ~ ) >




==================

Borrowed from: "Puppy Raising Tips" from
professional trainers, John and Amy Dahl.

"Around four months many puppies can withstand a
correction. Unfortunately this is the time they start
teething and if their mouth hurts, they may act
generally sensitive. If this is the case, be patient and
wait for all those baby teeth to fall out.

In training, retrievers often respond to physical correction
better than verbal correction. While "NO!" is extremely
useful if puppy is about to bite an electrical cord or steal
food off the table, when you are teaching them something
(like obedience) a sharp jerk on their lead or swat with a
stick gets the message across with less emotion and less
effect on their confidence.

If they drop the dummy and act like their mouth hurts
when they are teething, stop all retrieving and wait for
their mouth to feel better. A correction should be just
severe enough to get the dog to respond.

Repeated weak corrections are very stressful to the dog."

END lyingfrosty dahl

If you are interested in purchasing a dignified stick to
lay across you puppy's arse, just send a personal check
or money order in the amount of $30-$40 for a 30"-40"
long whuppin stick.

These all natural hickory switches will outlast an
entire litter of puppies! MAYBE MOORE!! Supplies
limited, so HURRY! Be the first in your club to have
the hickory switch training aid guaranteed for the life
of your dog (which may be much shorter than nature
intended!).

Ask yourself: "HOWE COME DOESN'T JERRY
HURT DOGS TO TRAIN THEM?"

And then just answer: "On AccHOWENT Of
JERRY KNOWS HOWE TO TRAIN DOGS
WITHOUT HURTING THEM."

And THEN SAY OUT LHOWED: "IGNORE
JERRY, HE'S MEAN TO DOG ABUSERS."

You can get all the information you need to
PUPPERLY handle and train your dog using
non force, non confrontational, scientific and
psychological methods, in your FREE copy
of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual.


Psychoclown wrote:

"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is something
you twisted out of context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."

Amy lyingfrosty dahl LIES with a straight face and says:

"I don't beat dogs, twist ears, or pinch toes. For the benefit
of anyone who is in doubt, and who chooses not to read the
article (SHE'D REALLY LIKE IT IF YOU DON'T READ IT!),
there is NO mention in it of twisting ears (INDEED, SHE
PINCHES THEM WITH SPIKES).

I would never slap a dog (SHE TEACHES PEOPLE TO
BEAT DOGS WITH STICKS TO MOTIVATE THEM).

I would never advise anyone to slap a dog (SHE'S A
PROVEN LIAR AND DOG ABUSER, do you expect her to
ADMIT THE TRUTH???).

I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, where
slapping a dog is anything but destructive."

RIGHT. She PINCHES, not twists... and chin cuff doesn't
mean hit, according to lyinglynn and avrama....

amy lyingfrosty dahl continues:

"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them more
sharply.

REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.

Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of
as force-fetching: the ear pinch.

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent that
resisting your will fades in importance.

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to
escaping the ear pinch even get a studded collar and pinch
the ear against that if the dog still does not open its mouth,
get out the shotshell.

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the
collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually, the
dog will give in

With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'

Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick.

Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your
thumb; Say 'fetch' while pressing the dummy against its lips
and pinching its ear."

Gotta LOVE koehler. dahl makes koheler look like St. Francis.

We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL

That's HOWE COME HOWER DOG LOVERS can't
post here abHOWETS noMOORE.

The Puppy Wizard. <} ; ~ ) >

Amy Dahl writes:

"From where I sit, there is a difference. I haven't noticed
any of the contingent who like Koehler trying to force
their method on everyone, or calling others names because
they do not use the method.

I personally believe the Koehler method is a more
humane way of teaching than any alternative I have
studied.

And I am not averse to learning--I have studied a
number of methods.

Koehler, of course, stops far short of the specialized
work I do with retrievers, and some of the things in his
book, such as making the dog walk behind the handler
on the "finish," are inappropriate for retriever work.

Why do I think Koehler's method is more humane than others?

First, I don't believe "corrections vs. no corrections" is as
significant to dogs as it is to people. Applied correctly,
Koehler's method uses *no* intimidation, fear, or emotional
manipulation. It is clear and definite, and the handler's
actions are always predictable. The method is masterfully
designed to prevent confrontation or vying for control in
any way. It places high demands of responsibility on the
trainer, and takes a great deal of commitment to do correctly,
so it is not for the casual "dabbler." When done well,very
few corrections are needed.

In brief, I think the clarity, predictability, and absence
of emotional blackmail weigh more strongly in the method's
favor, than the occasional brief unpleasantness of correction
weighs against it." lying frosty dahl.

"The Koehler Method of Dog Training" Howell Book House, 1996":

"Housebreaking problems:

Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to
relieve himself inside the house, regardless of how
often he has the opportunity to go outside. This dog
may require punishment. Make certain he is equipped
with a collar and piece of line so he can't avoid correction.

When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to
the place of his error, and hold his head close enough
so that he associates his error with the punishment.
Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or
switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper.

It is important to your future relationship that you do
not rush at him and start swinging before you get hold of him.

When he's been spanked, take him outside. Chances
are, if you are careful in your feeding and close
observation, you will not have to do much punishing.
Be consistent in your handling. To have a pup almost
house-broken and then force him to commit an error by
not providing an opportunity to go outside is very
unfair. Careful planning will make your job easier.

The same general techniques of housebreaking apply
to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the house.

For the grown dog who was reliable in the house and
then backslides, the method of correction differs
somewhat. In this group of "backsliders" we have the
"revenge piddler." This dog protests being alone by
messing on the floor and often in the middle of a bed.

The first step of correction is to confine the dog
closely in a part of the house when you go away, so
that he is constantly reminded of his obligation. The
fact that he once was reliable in the house is proof
that the dog knows right from wrong, and it leaves you
no other course than to punish him sufficiently to
convince him that the satisfaction of his wrongdoing is
not worth the consequences.

If the punishment is not severe enough, some of these
"backsliders" will think they're winning and will
continue to mess in the house. An indelible impression
can sometimes be made by giving the dog a hard
spanking of long duration, then leaving him tied by the
mess he's made so you can come back at twenty
minute intervals and punish him again for the same
thing.

In most cases, the dog that deliberately does
this disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment. It will be better for your dog, as
well as the house, if you really pour it on him.

Some of the new "breaking scents" on the market can
aid in your house-breaking program. One type
discourages the dog from even visiting an
area. Another encourages him to relieve himself in the
area where it is sprinkled. Your pet shop should be
able to supply further information on the brands available
in your district.

Be fair to your dog in what and when you feed him and
be consistent in your efforts to housebreak him, and
you'll soon accomplish the job.

BARKING, WHINING, HOWLING, YODELING,
SCREAMING, AND WAILING

The fact that you realize you have such a problem
makes it certain you have "reproved" the dog often
enough to let him know you were against his sound
effects, even though your reproving didn't quiet them,
so we'll bypass the loudly clapped hands, the cup of
water in his face, and the "shame-shames" and start
with something more emphatic.

We'll begin with the easiest kind of vocalist to correct:
the one that charges gates, fences, doors, and
windows, barking furiously at familiar or imaginary
people and objects. A few clusters of BBs from a
good slingshot, in conjunction with the light line and
plenty of temptations, will cause such a dog to use
his mind rather than his mouth.

But you won't make the permanent impression unless
you supply dozens of opportunities for him to exercise
the control he thus acquires. Make sure these
opportunities don't always come at the same time
of the day, else he may learn to observe the "quiet
hour" and pursue his old routines at other times.

With the help of the light line, it will be easy to follow
the BBs with a long down to make sure he gets the
most from his lesson. As was mentioned before,
eliminating the senseless barking will not lessen the
dog's value as a watchdog but rather, as he grows
more discriminating, increase it.

The dog who vocalizes in bratty protest or
lonesomeness because you're gone constitutes a
different problem. If it is impractical for someone
to stay with him constantly (there are owners who
cater to neurosis by employing dog sitters), you'll have
to heed the neighbors and the law and quiet the dog.

This calls for a little ingenuity as well as a heavy hand.

Attach a line to your dog's collar, so your corrective
effort doesn't turn into a footrace around the house
until you reach a stalemate under the bed. This use of
the line in the correction will also serve to establish it
as a reminder to be quiet as the dog drags it around
when you're not present.

Next, equip yourself with a man's leather belt or a
strap heavy enough to give your particular dog a good
tanning. Yup-we're going to strike him. Real hard.
Remember, you're dealing with a dog who knows he
should be quiet and neighbors who have legal rights to
see that he does.

When the noise comes, instead of trying to sneak up to
the door so you can barge in while he's still barking,
which is generally impossible, respond to his first
sound with an emphatic bellow of "out," and keep
on bellowing as you charge back to his area.

Thunder through the door or gate, snatch up the belt
that you've conveniently placed, and descend on him.
He'll have no chance to dodge if you grab the line and
reel him in until his front feet are raised off the floor or,
if he's a big dog, until you've snubbed him up with a
hitch on something.

While he's held in close, lay the strap vigorously
against his thighs.

Keep pouring it on him until he thinks it's the bitter
end. A real whaling now may cut down somewhat
on the number of repeat performances that will be
necessary.

When you're finished and the dog is convinced that he
is, put him on a long down to think things over while you
catch your breath. After fifteen or twenty minutes, release
him from the stay and leave the area again.

So that you won't feel remorseful, reflect on the truth
that a great percentage of the barkers who are given
away to "good homes" end up in the kindly black box
with the sweet smell. Personally, I've always felt that
it's even better to spank children, even if they "cry
out," than to "put them to sleep."

You might have a long wait on that comfortable porch
before your dog starts broadcasting again. When he
does, let your long range bellow tie the consequent
correction to his first sound and repeat the
spanking, if anything emphasizing it a bit more.

It might be necessary to spend a Saturday or another
day off so that you'll have time to follow through
sufficiently. When you have a full day, you will be able
to convince him each yelp will have a bad
consequence, and the consistency will make your job
easier. If he gets away with his concert part of the
time, he'll be apt to gamble on your inconsistency.

After a half dozen corrections, "the reason and the
correction" will be tied in close enough association so
that you can move in on him without the preliminary
bellowing of "out." From then on, it's just a case of
laying for the dog and supplying enough bad
consequences of his noise so he'll no longer feel like
gambling.

If there has been a long history of barking and whining,
it sometimes requires a lot of work to make a dog be
quiet when you're not around, so give the above
method an honest try before you presume your dog
requires a more severe correction." wm koehler.

Here's lyingdogDUMMY aka jack morrison aka
joey finnochiario aka tommy soronson of soronson's
retriever kennels, MO, USA BEATING A DOG to
HOWEsbreak IT:

"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<*n@thedetonatorearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:a236iv0ngp58gv9jmi818kbmk928rjcokq@4ax.com...
> On 26 Jul 2003 22:14:29 GMT, dogstar716@aol.com (DogStar716)
wrote:
>
> >>>Never mind dogman :)
> >>
> >>You too? Some folks just never learn.
> >
> >Uh huh :)
>
> One of the signs of mental illness is to say "Uh huh" a lot.
>
> >>PS: If the "trainer" you were talking about isn't on this
> >>list, he (or she) is NOT an approved Koehler trainer, no
> >>matter how loud you scream otherwise.
> >
> >May I laugh again? LOL! One doesn't need to be on a list
> >to use Koehlers
> >methods or teach his methods.
>
> Let me be among the first (apparently) to tell you that not
> every trainer who uses a leash is a *Koehler* trainer.
>
> Sheesh.
>
> This person may call herself a Koehler trainer, but if she's
> hanging 12 week old puppies, she's about as far from a
> Koehler trainer as a dog trainer can possibly be.
>
> Again, this is just your IGNORANCE showing.
>
> I can call myself a devout Christian, but if I'm not
> adhering to the doctrine, I'm something else.
>
> >>http://www.koehlerdogtraining.com/patoflearn.html
> >Sorry, the very first sentences make me aware that whoever
> >wrote it knows nothing about PR based training:
> >
> >"Amidst the current (and politically correct) trend in
> >Positive Reinforcement
> >Only training systems"
> >
> >You cannot use PR only.
>
> Au contraire. Many, many posters to r.p.d.b. (and many
> other places as well) *claim* that they use nothing but R.
> You know, the PPers.
>
> And they do it quite loudly, too.
>
> Surely you aren't blind (and deaf), as well as ignorant?
>
> Those are hard handicaps to overcome, Dogstar.
>
> >And if you knew anything about PR BASED training, you would
> >realize that. It's not all cookies and babytalk.
>
> There is no stronger supporter of R than Handsome Jack
> Morrison, but I also use every behavioral tool in my bag,
> including R-, P, and P-, because I know that even R has its
> limits.
>
> You'd know that too, if you didn't have your head in the
> sand.
>
> > But that seems to be the battle cry of the Koehler-ites.
>
> The Koehlerites have no battle cry.
>
> They have behaviorism on their side, and that's more than
> enough.
>
> >I don't need instruction on how to give my dogs a proper
> >leash correction as I
> >do not rely on a leash to control or teach my dog.
>
> That may or may not be suitable for your needs, but it's not
> suitable for the majority of dog owners, especially since
> the advent of leash laws.
>
> Besides, after just a few weeks of proper Koehler training,
> Koehler dogs likewise are no longer in need of a leash.
>
> That you apparently don't know that, once again shows me
> just how ignorant of anything to do with Koehler you are.
>
> >My last two dogs have been trained offleash right from the
> >start, using rewards for what I like, and nothing for what
> >I don't like.
>
> Good for you, and if that level of training is good enough
> for you, fine. But it's not good enough for many of the
> rest of us.
>
> >Again, I'm not saying Koehler doesn't work.
>
> I really have no idea what you're saying anymore, because
> you apparently know so damn little about Koehler and
> behavioral principles in general that it's hard to have an
> informed discussion with you.
>
> PS: It boggles my mind at how stupid you must be to keep
> denying that those certain harsh methods are only for LAST
> RESORT situations, intended only to SAVE A DOG'S LIFE,
> even after I've repeatedly given you direct *quotes* from
> Koehler's book saying just that. It's like you don't even
> care how stupid people think you are, or how devious you
> are, etc. That can't help your cause any. You'd think that
> you'd at least want to *appear* to be honest, even if you're
> not. -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the detonator
> to reply via e-mail


"Handsome Jack Morrison"
<*n@thedetonatorearthlink.net> wrote in message
news:spb3ivgh7prvq9omhka0bcif0tfknv6oop@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 25 Jul 2003 17:52:18 -0400, "Krishur"
> <kris_brock@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Good books huh?
>
> Absolutely. Some are, in fact, classics.
>
> >Which idea was your favorite, the one where they tell you
> >to alpha roll a "dominant" dog,
>
> There's nothing inherently wrong with rolling a dog (i.e.,
> it *can* and *does* work in *some* situations).
> Unfortunately, most people either do it incorrectly, do it
> at the wrong time, etc.
>
> >or where they tell you that you didn't hit him hard enough
> >if he doesn't yelp or approaches you within 5 minutes of
> >his punishment?
>
> If physical discipline is deemed necessary (after careful
> evaluation), it's much more cruel not to get it over with
> quickly than it is to do it incrementally and
> half-heartedly, which usually only invites the need for even
> more discipline.
>
> >Maybe you liked when they recommend these beatings for
> >housebreaking accidents, chewing/destructive behavior,
> >stealing, trying to get on your bed
> >at night and dog on dog aggression.
>
> At no time do the Monks *ever* advocate beating a dog. A
> swat on the rump or a check to the chin does *not*
> constitute a "beating."
>
> I'm sorry if you don't agree.
>
> And each of those behavior "problems" needs to be looked at
> in its proper context.
>
> A quote from the Monks:
>
> "We repeat, these situations may merit physical discipline.
> Since no book can pretend to analyze every individual dog
> and situation, we feel obligated to emphasize from the
> outset that discipline is never an arbitrary training
> technique to be applied to each and every dog for all
> offenses. We do, however, believe that physical and verbal
> discipline can be an effective technique. The best policy if
> you experience any of the above problems is to consult a
> qualified trainer or veterinarian for evaluation of your
> individual situation....
>
> "If discipline is decided upon as a training technique, it
> should be the proper technique. We feel we have developed
> several methods that depend less on violent physical force
> than timing, a flair for drama, and the element of surprise.
> We feel an obligation, as responsible trainers, to map out
> these methods, rather than simply skip the topic because it
> is unpleasant. Dog owners want to know what to do."
>
> In other words, physical discipline is reserved for those
> serious, special occasions when other methods have failed.
>
> For example, they do not recommend using physical discipline
> for *routine* housebreaking chores -- only on those rare
> occasions when an already reliably housebroken dog is (after
> careful evaluation) deemed to be soiling the house on
> purpose, backsliding, etc.
>
> I'll give you an actual example. Years ago, an adult dog
> was brought to me as an *incurable* house-soiler. It was
> either get the dog reliably housetrained or the dog was
> going on a one way trip to the pound. Being the kind,
> compassionate trainer that I am, I was prepared to do
> whatever it took to get this dog house-trained and save his
> life.
>
> After several weeks of more or less traditional training,
> and to poor result, I brought out the big guns -- physical
> and verbal discipline. Whenever the dog soiled the house
> (no, you don't even have to catch him in the act), I
> immediately (but very calmly) tossed a leash on his collar,
> dragged him to the scene of the crime, and (using a large
> chair as a prop) tethered him to the leg of the chair, with
> his nose about two inches away from the poop. After a
> couple of swats on the rump, some loud vocalizing, and a
> wait of about 20 minutes, I'd release the dog and then
> ignore him for a while. I had to repeat this process *three*
> times, I think -- and the house-soiling miraculously
> stopped. The dog went home to enjoy a long and contented
> life with his original owners, and I got to feel good about
> myself.
>
> So, yes, the Monk's books are good ones. Even for novices.
>
> Yup, that's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.
>
> -- Handsome Jack Morrison *gently remove the detonator to
> reply via e-mail




KayJay
2004-02-11 21:15:03 EST
Yes, that is what I do with my dog, Rusty. He is a real little yapper. But
when I say to him - Good Bye- I can see them. Good Boy. Good boy. He just
stops yapping - wags his tail and kind settles down with a satisfied look on
his face.

kayJay
http://www.petloversgifts.biz
"Estel J. Hines" <ejhines@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:w86dna9lBfNZgbTdRVn-hA@comcast.com...
> Until i read the Jerry method of Bark reductioon, it went something like
> this with our 11 month old puppy "Yoshi"
>
> Yoshi: Bark, bark,
> us: HUSH Youshi
> Yoshi Bark, bark......................
> us: Hush Youshi
> Yoshi BARK, BARK, BARK, .................................it stopped when
> Yoshi got tired barking
>
>
> We decided to try the Jerry method
>
> :Yoshi: BARK, BARK
> US: GOOD Yoshi, Good Boy, who is it?
>
> Yoshi Bark, Bark
> US: It's ok, good boy Yoshi, We know them
>
> Yosh without fail, now stops after we say that
>
> I must say, it is so much more fun, when we can praise him, to deal with
> things like this
>
> Thanks Jerry
>
> ps: We are just starting to go thru the Jerry Papers, and learn how to
live
> with our son "Yoshi", whom we love very much.
> --
> Best Regards,
>
> Estel J. Hines
> ejhines@comcast.net
>
>



The Puppy Wizard
2004-02-12 15:30:51 EST
HOWEDY KayJay,

"KayJay" <krystaljas@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:GkBWb.87$2M5.2326@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
>
> Yes, that is what I do with my dog,

INDEEDY. Praise in advance always works.

> Rusty.

HOWEDY Rusty. You got LUCKY!

> He is a real little yapper.

Good for him.

> But when I say to him - Good Boy- I can see them.
> Good Boy. Good boy. He just stops yapping - wags
> his tail and kind settles down with a satisfied look on
> his face.

HOWER dog lovers would prefer to choke shock
and spray aversives in their face and lock them in
boxes and scruff shake and jerk and choke them
on pronged spiked pinch choke collars:

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

>> and that they've run into dogs they had to adapt
>> their methods for.

Oh? You mean like professor dermer?:

"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.

**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works."

> kayJay

You see KayJay, we got mostly liars dog abusers
and active incurable long term mental patients who
hurt and kill dogs and call The Puppy Wizard's FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual Students
LIARS and FORGERIES by The Puppy Wizard.

Here's a PARTIAL list of CERTIFEIDD MENTALLY
ILL DOG ABUSRS and LIARS who are respected
posters here abHOWETS:

WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg Of Lithium And 50 mg Of Zoloft Every Day
For Twenty Years

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information I have learned.

But if I were ever to post such sh*t, I would hope that every
other reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the easily
understood rules and contributing to in constructive ways."

Lynn K.

-----------------------------------------


LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar conversation on
Mental problems. LYNN AND LOIS Almost 50 years on mental
illness medications combined

-----------------------------------------

> But I think what Lois was referring to was the fact that
> Darlene actually stated at some point that she was
> bipolar--and, IIRC, that meds did not work for her--so she
> was prone to major-league ups and downs and sudden
> enthusiasms..

"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her - she wouldn't take
them. I particularly remember a comment she made about
scarey side effects of Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on
it, I think I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the very real
dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------



LYNN K. and the UNQUIET MIND
----------------------------------------

From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com) Subject: Re: Where is
Darlene? Date: 1999/09/03

BoxHill wrote:

> I know I am totally off topic here, but have you read
> "The Unquiet Mind"?

Yeah. It's interesting, but kind of watered down for the
mass market, if you know what I mean. There's really quite
a lot of good work out there and decent research. Thank
God.

Lynn K.
---------------------------------------

MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION "KUCKOO!! CUCKOO!!!" MOTHER (LOIS E.)
22 YEARS on TRICYCLICS, DAUGHTER BIPOLAR... YOU DO THE MATH

"What's really terrific, is now days you can say proudly, 'I
take anti-depressives'"

-------------------------------------

From: Gary & lois Edwards (garyl@bmi.net) Subject: Re: Where
is Darlene? Date: 1999/09/02

BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS

"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics for about
22 years. Been there, done that, have the t-shirt to prove
it. What's really terrific, is now days you can say proudly,

"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started taking them
it was seen as something shameful. If you cut your leg off,
and were lying there with a bleeding stump, you'd never let
the word depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have any pain
meds.....you could become addicted."

The good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's father
locked her in her room back in the twenties because she was
simple. A shame that medication probably would have helped
her live a normal life.

No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's personality,
she has a way of making grandiose plans when at the top of
her manic cycle....as does my daughter. I wasn't saying that
anyone with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."

Lois E.
-------------------------------------


MENTAL ILLNESS IN RPD* Mental illness is a public issue in
these newsgroups. People are always running around calling
other people mentally ill and diagnosing their illnesses.

I think it's only fair that we have an accurate list of who is
and who isn't mentally ill, so that we can avoid any
misunderstandings and promote group harmony.


Updated KUCKOO!! KUCKOOO! DING! DING! DING! list as of
12/21/2003:


list of confirmed or suspected mentally ill (crazy) Regulars
Most of whom are women or homosexuals


RPD CRAZY PERSON ROLL CALL and BIOS
=============================================
=============================================

NESSA NUTCASE MVP (Most Valuable Psycho) of dog newsgroups


Successfully dethroned MaryBeth as MVP

Nessa blames all the problems in her life moston ADD ADHD Or
some other empowering acronym which encapsulates her futility
for her

Her dog bagel, a large newf mix has used her house liberally
as a toilet since February of 2002. Drives a 2003 Toyota
Matrix, owns a house in suburban MD, recently got a
raise/promotion to US goverment grade 11 (circa $50,000) and
promptly decided she couldn't afford her two dogs. With help
from non crazy regular (Paulette) and witchcraft practicing
regular Sara Sionnach, Nessa has decided to keep her dogs for
the time being. She is undergoing training from Janet "Nice
Abdominal Surgery and getting Run Over for the Family Pet."
Her results have not been dramatic.


CrAzy ReGulAr helping CraZy ReGular Leah helping Nessa

=============================

On Fri, 7 Jun 2002 8:40:08 -0400, Leah wrote

Nessa usenet@nessa.info wrote:
"As far as the depression goes, it's not related to Bagel
at all. I have chronic major depression and I'm just having
a flare."

Leah asks "Are you on any medication?"

Nessa responds

yes for depression, mood swings and ADHD. I have been for
over 10 years.

--nessa


Nessa is Fat as well as crazy =============================
"For what it's worth...

I picked up 30 pounds when I started Dilantin. I picked up
(just recently) another 20 on risperidol.

I hate that I was a size 8-10 before meds and now I am
solidly (pun intended) a 22-24.

Sad part is, the side effects are worth it. The positive
effects are too much to part with."

--nessa
============================




NESSA'S HAS A GREAT NEUROPSYCH ==============================

Hi, I have a great neuropsych in Arlington Va. He is at the
Rosyln Metro Station. His name is Martin Stein 1911 N Fort
Myer Dr. Suite 907 Arlington Va 22209 703-807-2471 email
7*6@compuserve.com


Marty is wonderful. He is really the best. He has also
given me permission to post his infomation on this
Newsgroup. If you call him and see him by all means tell
him Nessa sent you.

--nessa
================================




ROTATE YOUR STIMULANTS =============================

from: Nessa (nessa@ix.netcom.com)

Hi,

I often have to rotate my stimulants. You can become used to
them and sometimes need a different one for a while. Until
I got on my Desoxyn I rotated Ritilan and Dexedrine every 3
months or so.

It is true that anti-depressants or anti-anxiety pills will
help with the stimulants so your DR is not wrong. However,
perhaps she needs to check into the idea that a switch from
cylert to something else might be in order.

warm thoughts, Nessa
=============================



=============================================
=============================================



Lois E. (of Gary and Lois fame)

Lois' has been on tricyclic antidepressants for approximately
25 years. This may be a record. Husband is a cop but there is
no evidence that he beats the crap out of her, or that he has
for 25 years.

Had a traumatic experience as a child with a horse running
wild in the Pantry and living room. In recent years, shot
neighbor's dog from point blank range while it was chewing on
her pigmy goat, teaching son to solve problems with the
neighbor's using shock and awe levels of violence."


BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS

"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics for about
22 years. Been there, done that, have the t-shirt to prove
it. What's really terrific, is now days you can say proudly,
"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started taking them
it was seen as something shameful. If you cut your leg off,
and were lying there with a bleeding stump, you'd never let
the word depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have any pain
meds.....you could become addicted." The good old days. I
actually had a Great Aunt who's father locked her in her
room back in the twenties because she was simple. A shame
that medication probably would have helped her live a normal
life. No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
personality, she has a way of making grandiose plans when at
the top of her manic cycle....as does my daughter. I wasn't
saying that anyone with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."

Lois E.





=============================================
=============================================





Kelly/ culprit

Systems engineer at Microsoft, owner of two pitbulls,
proving that Bill Gates does not discriminate against crazy
people or pit bull owners.

psychotic features, panic and more. Coming forward so that
others like her will have the strength to do the same. Like
Charlie Wilkes, she is one of our most entertraining
regulars

Here, kelly/culprit talks to Mustang Sally about her mental
illness/crazy problems. Sally is being rude and
condescending (as usual) and trying to make kelly/culprit
feel bad for being crazy, aka wacked in the head


culprit standing up for herself against rude and condescending
Mustang Sally -----------------------------------------------

I WON'T DENY MY PROBLEMS, MUSTANG SALLY!

"but i stand by the fact that OCD is an illness, major
depression with psychotic features certainly is, panic
disorder is too. and the other stuff just makes it all the
more fun.

i don't wallow in it. i'm just now learning to accept it,
because ignoring it wasn't working out too well. i need to
do that to make changes to my life so that i can become
healthy. and you say you're not trying to be condescending,
but you're doing it again. what i read was, (my
paraphrasing) "people who think they're mentally ill are
wallowing in their disabilities and letting them consume
their life"

you come across as though you would be able to handle any of
these illnesses, and anyone who can't is just copping out.
well we're all different. and i don't accept your idea that
i would have a more productive life if i denied my problems.
i tried it for years, and believe me, it didn't work very
well."

-kelly aka culprit systems engineer @ Microsoft
----------------------------------------------




=============================================
=============================================



MaryBeth FMVP (former most valuable psycho)

(super psycho bitch lunatic queen of the mentally fucked in
the head)


Has contributed greatly to the annual profit results at
several large pharmaceutical corps has taken virtually every
mentally ill (crazy) drug treatment in the book, and then
some: prozac, zoloft, amitryptiline, Buspar, Xanax, effexor,
paxil, HRT, wellbutrin, tranquilizers, clomid,



MaryBeth has suffered from or been:

TIDAL WAVES OF PMS

suicidal, agoraphobic, tidal waves of PMS, mood swings,
turned into a hermit, bloated, just real angry, hubby afraid
of her, high blood pressure, divorced, "raving bitch"
"zoloft zombie" for four years, "living through layers and
layers of gauze," chain smoker, buzzing, weight gain,
fatigue, terrible dry mouth, dull headaches, fuzzy brain,
lack of concentration..etc. severe depression, severe
insomnia, Panic ALL the time, crying, not sleeping, you name
it...etc...

MaryBeth (on being seriously f'd in the head aka mentally ill)
aka cuckoo! kuckoo! ding! ding! ding! aka a superpsychotic
bitch from hell



I RAN OVER EVERYONE IN MY PATH

"I know for a fact I went thru years of being overly
sensitive, being a b*tch, being self centered, being self
pitying, you name it, I was a wreck and I ran over everyone
in my path."

"<G> I do know the power of meds, especially on a long term
basis, and it's not pretty. You become another person, if
it's not the correct med for you.

--All the best,
MaryBeth


DON'T TAKE ULTRAM AND ZOLOFT TOGETHER

"Yup Diane, I am taking Zoloft, and my Rheumatologist told
me that taking Ultram with it can cause seizures."

"I have all the symptoms.I am suicidal at times (cyclical)
have severe insomnia, 'crawly' skin etc. I have an appt to
see my doc next Friday to test for menopause."

--MaryBeth


ME NOT SO HORNY

"I noticed that antidepressants cut libido into the dead
zone and I had no real emotions, like not laughing at funny
stuff, couldn't cry either.....except about my suicidal
thoughts (but at the time I thought there was no other way
out)."

--MaryBeth

NEW TO GROUP

"Hi, new to group, just starting Clomid today. I talked with
RE and pharmacist re: zoloft (50 mg daily) and ineraction
with Clomid. They reported none. Not sure about the prozac
tho. Gonna poat a new message to intorduce myself :)"

--MaryBeth <still feeling
like herself> <G>


WASTED 10 YEARS

"I wasted about 10 years of my life, and lost many many
treasured ppl and things. Please don't do the same.
(((((((SCOUT))))))))))

--MaryBeth



WAS HORRIBLE

"Slowly but surely my depression got worse and worse. They
put me on meds for it, and all along kept telling me to wait
on the TKR, as 'it really wasn't that bad.....yet". HA!" The
depression got so bad, and lots of other things happened and
my ex and I would up divorced four years after our move. It
was horrible. The hardest thing I have eve gone thru"

--MaryBeth


=============================================
=============================================

Theresa Willis


(paxil, depression, robot displacement) Theresa is a gang
banger who comes out of cutesy robot mode when it's time to
gang attack people with her pal shelly Victim is usually
Leah, but may be a random person.

=============================================
=============================================




shelly couvrette

Severe OCD, depression, prescribed Paxil for mental illness,
but claims she does not take it, resulting in an obsessive
basket case online persona. Posts more than any other female
in all dog newsgroups

(familial mental illness, possibly related to family bed)
obsessively starves her dogs according to friends, family,
strangers and 3 different vets, but not herself (see
below). Still thinks of herself as a five year old
ballerina despite the fact that she is a fat adult in her
mid thirties.

PAGE ALL THE WAY DOWN FOR BONUS COVERAGE

=============================================
=============================================




lynn kosmakos

RPD* Enemy of Dogs #1

(Lithium, Zoloft, bipolar, manic, depression) will "put down a
biter as fast as anyone" yet claims to be a saintly dog
rescuer. Murders dogs because of insurance rates Her brother
was attacked by a Golden Retriever when she was young. For
this reason, she murders easily trainable dogs. Condemns dogs
to death who are easily trainable with her "evaluations." Is
nice to people in person, but her true dog hating nature comes
out on newsgroups with extreme clarity.

Advocates shooting dogs on sight, when they chase deer. Sees
no other option. Her own dog Java had to be shocked with a
shock collar to keep him from chasing deer.

has been on lithium for approximately 20 years. Zoloft for an
undetermined number of years



1200mg LITHIUM 50mg ZOLOFT

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder
(manic-depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of
Zoloft every day. I, also, care about dogs and use this
forum to learn more, while happily sharing pertinent
information I have learned. But if I were ever to post
such sh*t, I would hope that every other reader of this
group would be rightfully outraged."



WE EARN THE RIGHT TO PARTICIPATE

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the easily
understood rules and contributing to in constructive ways."

Lynn K.



I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of Lithium.
Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think I'm qualified to say
that the very low risk of any side effect is far less
frightening than the very real dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.




From: Chris Kosmakos (chriskoz@netcom.com) Subject: Re: Prozac
- Good medication or no?

I TAKE A SIMILAR DRUG MYSELF

"Yes, for very specific behaviorial problems. I would have
to trust my vet and behaviorist a lot, and be very sure
that I had exhausted every other option before I used
Prozac to deal with a dog problem - and I take a similar
drug, Zoloft, myself."

Lynn K.





=============================================
=============================================


Leah

Effexor for chronic depression, in denial about being
mentally ill. Has taken several other mentally ill
medications before settling on effexor for her chronic
mental problems. Leah is improving as a dog trainer and
wants to open her own training/boarding kennel soon and
write a book.

This drives her fellow mentally ill regulars nuts (read
shelly Lynn K.), especially if Leah succeeds while other
loonies continue to sit on their fat behinds

Leah is a relatively stable crazy person but she just might
be the agent that drives others to jump off of a cliff

=============================================
=============================================



Tara Green

Tara Green is a dog trainer of sorts in New York City left
rpd* claiming that she could not afford internet access and/or
a computer, but her story is of value nonetheless

was on antidepressants for a few years prior to her
marriage. During her marriage, she learned a lot: "With the
therapist I saw during my marriage I learned that some
situational depressions are masked as chemical simply
because of our too human ability to prolong the impact of
the causal situations indefinitely"

Sounds like more denial, see leah

Tara is also a drunk who has also had problems with other
substances

TARA on being a drunk/substance abuser:

"Tara (who had some problems with quite a
few substances as well, but who thinks they are separate
issues.....so which camp does that put me in???)"

"Believe it or not, some people don't have
a problem with drugs even though they are alcoholics. I'm
not one of those people, but they do exist."

aka, tara has problems with both


=============================================
=============================================



Kevin Michael Vail

various mental illness drugs, started with zoloft, didn't
like that, then went to antidepressant, stopped after
sufficent side effects, now on SSRI and in therapy Kevin is
a homosexual but there is no evidence that this is the cause
of him being crazy

=============================================
=============================================


Furpaw

(SSRI, cognitive therapy)
otherwise, a fairly boring and nondescript crazy person

=============================================
=============================================



Chris Jung

(Prozac and Welbutrin,
cognitive therapy)

another very boring nutcase

=============================================
=============================================



Charlie Wilkes


drugged out, crazy, fucked up all his life, Christ the shit
he's been through including psych wards and electroshock
treatments but now pulling down major cash as a business
consultant. Triumphing over adversity, with a damn good life
and a well trained dog (very much unlike Leah) One of our
most lucid regulars, despite (or maybe because of?) a
penchant for phat philly blunts.

=============================================
=============================================



Karen DuChateaux aka Karibear

suffered from clinical depression for years until some drug
or something brought her out of it. Some of her best friends
"are certifiable" and have various degrees of psychoses.
Familial mental disability. Refuses to say whether or not
she is currently using drug or cognitive therapy for mental
illness.

=============================================
=============================================



Mike "DumbOxDumb" Dufort


threatened non violent dog expert Jerry Howe with Mike's
fully armed US Army Platoon. Threatened to bring his platoon
to Jerry's HOWSE. also OCD (obsessed with Jerry's posts)

=============================================
=============================================



Jim "Brain Shivers" Sabatke



Jim is currently on Effexor which he takes because of his
depression/mental problems. Like many of our mental cases,
Jim has had trouble finding the right med(s) to keep him
from going kuckoo!! kuckoooo!!! or getting the "brain
shivers"


From: Jim Sabatke (jsabatke@execpc.com) Subject: Re:
anyone using Effexor? alt.support.depression.medication
Date: 2002-11-29 20:25:16 PST

EFFEXOR "I'm on 375 mg/day and it has worked wonders for
me. The only down side is that my blood pressure has
elevated somewhat; oh and if I miss a dose by a couple of
hours the "brain shivers" can be really bad.

Good luck!

Jim



"I switched from Paxil to Effexor about 5 months ago. I
tapered off of the Paxil and tapered onto the Effexor at
the same time."

Jim



"After several years on Effexor IR, my pdoc tried switching
me to XR. I experienced fairly severe Effexor withdrawel
until I went back to the IR."

Jim

=============================================
=============================================



<YOUR NAME GOES HERE>
(please proudly add your name and the drugs/disorders specific
to you, if you are also mentally ill). If we all come forward,
we can help each other with our problems. Remember, mental
illness is nothing to be ashamed of. It's not your fault if
you have a defective brain which may cause you to act like an
extreme hypocrite and/or idiot and/or robot without your being
aware of it).

Also, please notify us if you are *not* mentally ill, and have
been added to this by mistake, so we can make our corrections
and remove you from the crazy person list.

===========================================




mental health weekly










-- This has been a production of dogtv.com networks your world
leader in dog entertraining


this is michael reporting live... from dogtv.com networks
http://dogtv.com




A SPECIAL BONUS ON shelly the librarian at Indiana U.

========================================================
SHELLY IS THE ONLY ONE WHO DOESN'T THINK HATTIE IS STARVING


EMACIATED, VET WAS SURPRISED

"when i got harriet she was emaciated, so
i asked my vet for advice on slowly adding weight to her.
six months later i took harriet in for her spring check-up
and my vet was surprised that at how thin she still was."
--shelly couvrette


STILL VET SHOPPING

"<raises hand> i've been told by three different vets that
harriet (53lbs) is *way* too skinny. we're still
vet-shopping, BTW."

--shelly couvrette

THE OL' "I'M STARVING" ROUTINE

"if you really can't resist it when your dog pulls
the "i'm starving!" routine <G>, you can give him some
frozen green beans or a small amount of plain pureed
pumpkin. i would also suggest putting the food out of his
sight. i keep my food--still inside the bags, which are
tightly rolled down--inside trash cans in the closed
laundry room. that keeps it fresh and keeps it out of my
dogs' sight."

--shelly couvrette


POSITIVELY STARVED

"heh. i get the opposite response. people think
that poor little harriet is positively starved to death.
i've actually had people stop me in the pet supply shop and
tell me that i need to fatten her up!"

--shelly couvrette


WHO WANTS TO BE TOLD YOU ARE HURTING YOUR WIDDLE PRECIOUS?

"i think that may be part of the problem. who
wants to go to a vet who tells you you're hurting your
.widdle precious? i think the other part is that some vets
really don't *realize* that what they consider proper
weight is fat. after having been told by a couple of vets
that my dogs are too thin, i've got a dim view of vets on
that topic."

--shelly couvrette


JUST A BITE WON'T HURT
--shelly's mom

FEED HER AND I'LL RIP YOUR ARM OFF, BITCH
--shelly

"my mom is kinda that way, but not *as* bad.
she thinks that harriet is awfully skinny, so feeding her
table snax is okay. she tells me that just a bite won't
hurt."

--shelly couvrette


NOBODY IS STARVING FAT PI.G SHELLY

NOBODY WILL STOP SHELLY ON THE STREET AND TELL HER SHE IS
STARVING HERSELF shelly's fat face
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette/Wshelly2.jpg
=======================================================


There are a lot of big fat women on these groups who starve
their dogs out of vanity, but shelly is a special case.

shelly is moor.e than a little bit beyond the pale

Shelly has OCD, and maybe she's just a little obsessive about
measuring out extra tiny and discrete portions with a tiny
measuring cup, or counting out pieces of green bean or pumpkin
that she gives her dogs when they give her the "I'm Starving"
routine. When grandma tried to give Hattie a snack, shelly
probably went apeshit, because it was in violation of her
Obsessive need to oversee every tiny calorie that goes into
her widdle precious' mouth.

shelly's a special case, a special kind of dog abuser


---------------------------------------------------------------
--- --------------


this marks the end of the rec.pets.dogs.* crazy person list

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