Dog Discussion: Biting

Biting
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Tamara Byfield
2004-01-29 20:46:16 EST
Hi there

I was wondering if anyone could give me any advice. I have a 9 week old
German Shepherd puppy, and she keeps biting me and my partner, I was hoping
that someone could give us some tips to stop it. Other than that shes a
pretty good dog.

Thanks
Tamara



The Puppy Wizard
2004-01-30 00:51:03 EST
HOWEDY Tamara,

"Tamara Byfield" <tamarabyfield@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:4019b769$1_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
>
> Hi there

HOWEDY.

> I was wondering if anyone could give me any advice.

Are you being seriHOWES?

> I have a 9 week old German Shepherd puppy,
> and she keeps biting me and my partner,

Have you taught it the NO command?

> I was hoping that someone could give us some
> tips to stop it.

INDEED.

> Other than that shes a pretty good dog.

You'll have to be firm with her.

> Thanks

Your welcome.

> Tamara

HOWEDY shannyB,

"shannyB" <sks962@aol.com> wrote in message
news:894ca8ca6cd4023d14384a1aa7510a04@localhost.talkaboutpets.com.
..
>
> I have a 6wk old chihuahua/pomeranian mix I got
> 5 days ago. 80% of the time when you pick her up
> she will GROWL at you and even show her teeth!

"That's Why We Try To Almost Always Use Positive Reinforcement
Rather Than Punishement." professor
lying doc SCRUFF SHAKE And SCREAM 'NO!' Into
Its Face For 5 Seconds and lock IT in a box for ten
minutes contemplation" dermer of the Dept of ANAL-\
ytic behaviorISM at UofWI.

> Sometimes if she is lying there and you pet her
> she'll start growling.

Oh? That's EZ to fix! Here's HOWER professor
SCRUFF SHAKE from the department of ANAL-
ytic behaviorISM at UofWI:

From: Marshall Dermer (dermer@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: new puppy bitting/chewing hands
Date: 1999/07/05

At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.

But, if you say "No," pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.

First, the frequency of unwanted chewing
has decreased; and two, you have established
"No" as a conditioned punisher.

How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted biting.

When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).

My dog is about 1.5 years old. "No" is usually sufficient
but sometimes I use "Bad Dog" to stop a behavior.

"Bad Dog" ALWAYS works.

I then, of course, quickly say "Good Dog" when he is
appropriately behaving.

In providing verbal punishment and reinforcement as
in using nonverbal punishement and reinforcement,
timing is very important.

Use these consquences to control behavior much
as in the game where a child is told "your getting hot"
or "your getting cold." If the delay between the behavior
and the consquence is too long then the behavior will
not appropriately change.

--Marshall

> I have children 15, 12, 8.

You can use the same method on them.

> Im afraid she'll be an aggressive dog.

You've just gotta teach IT a little RESPECT.

"BAD DOG ALWAYS WORKS."

> I have checked her all over to make sure she is not
> injured in any way and she seems to be fine. what
> do i do?

Perhaps you need some puppy raisting tips?

> I have tried grabing her by the nap of the neck and
> giving her a little shack

Good. Follow the professors INSTRUCTIONS.

> and the makes thing worse.

"BAD DOG ALWAYS WORKS."

> so now we are at looking her in the face and
> frimly saying no!!

Are you doin that for five seconds and lockin IT
in a box for ten minutes contemplation?

> Help! what do i do??

NO PROBLEMO! Here's some puppy
training tips from HOWER own renHOWEND
lying frosty dahl, ETHICKAL Labradora dog
breeder and EXXXPERT TRAINER:

Borrowed from: "Puppy Raising Tips" from
professional trainers, John and Amy Dahl.

"Around four months many puppies can withstand a
correction. Unfortunately this is the time they start
teething and if their mouth hurts, they may act
generally sensitive. If this is the case, be patient and
wait for all those baby teeth to fall out.

In training, retrievers often respond to physical correction
better than verbal correction. While "NO!" is extremely
useful if puppy is about to bite an electrical cord or steal
food off the table, when you are teaching them something
(like obedience) a sharp jerk on their lead or swat with a
stick gets the message across with less emotion and less
effect on their confidence.

If they drop the dummy and act like their mouth hurts
when they are teething, stop all retrieving and wait for
their mouth to feel better. A correction should be just
severe enough to get the dog to respond.

Repeated weak corrections are very stressful to the dog."

END lyingfrosty dahl

If you are interested in purchasing a dignified stick to
lay across you puppy's arse, just send a personal check
or money order in the amount of $30-$40 for a 30"-40"
long whuppin stick.

These all natural hickory switches will outlast an
entire litter of puppies! MAYBE MOORE!! Supplies
limited, so HURRY! Be the first in your club to have
the hickory switch training aid guaranteed for the life
of your dog (which may be much shorter than nature
intended!).

Ask yourself: "HOWE COME DOESN'T JERRY
HURT DOGS TO TRAIN THEM?"

And then just answer: "On AccHOWENT Of
JERRY KNOWS HOWE TO TRAIN DOGS
WITHOUT HURTING THEM."

And THEN SAY OUT LHOWED: "IGNORE
JERRY, HE'S MEAN TO DOG ABUSERS."

You can get all the information you need to
PUPPERLY handle and train your dog using
non force, non confrontational, scientific and
psychological methods, in your FREE copy
of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual.


Psychoclown wrote:

"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks" things is something
you twisted out of context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."

Amy lyingfrosty dahl LIES with a straight face and says:

"I don't beat dogs, twist ears, or pinch toes. For the benefit
of anyone who is in doubt, and who chooses not to read the
article (SHE'D REALLY LIKE IT IF YOU DON'T READ IT!),
there is NO mention in it of twisting ears (INDEED, SHE
PINCHES THEM WITH SPIKES).

I would never slap a dog (SHE TEACHES PEOPLE TO
BEAT DOGS WITH STICKS TO MOTIVATE THEM).

I would never advise anyone to slap a dog (SHE'S A
PROVEN LIAR AND DOG ABUSER, do you expect her to
ADMIT THE TRUTH???).

I do not believe there is a single circumstance, ever, where
slapping a dog is anything but destructive."

RIGHT. She PINCHES, not twists... and chin cuff doesn't
mean hit, according to lyinglynn and avrama....

amy lyingfrosty dahl continues:

"Get a stick 30- or 40-inches long. You can have a helper
wield the stick, or do it yourself. Tougher, less tractable
dogs may require you to progress to striking them more
sharply.

REPEAT, VARYING HOW HARD YOU HIT THE DOG.

Now you are ready to progress to what most people think of
as force-fetching: the ear pinch.

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent that
resisting your will fades in importance.

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to
escaping the ear pinch even get a studded collar and pinch
the ear against that if the dog still does not open its mouth,
get out the shotshell.

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the
collar, even the buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually, the
dog will give in

With your hand on the collar and ear, say, 'fetch.'

Immediately tap the dog on the hindquarters with the stick.

Repeat "fetch" and pinch the ear all the way to the dummy.
You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your
thumb; Say 'fetch' while pressing the dummy against its lips
and pinching its ear."

Gotta LOVE koehler. dahl makes koheler look like St. Francis.



"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.

You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???

"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.

You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?

"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."

You think HURTIN dogs and CRINGING
is COURTEOUS?

"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?"

Means the author is a dog abuser of the worst magnitude.

"When you bring home the Bitter Apple for
the first time, spray one squirt directly into
the dog's mouth and walk away. The dog
won't be too thrilled with this but just ignore
him and continue your normal behavior."

You think HURTING your dog is NORMAL BEHAVIOR?

--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"Courteous Canines"

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

--------------------------

You think HOWER pals are playin with a full deck?

"I particularly remember a comment she made
about scarey side effects of Lithium. Hardly.
After 17 years on it, I think I'm qualified to say
that the very low risk of any side effect is far
less frightening than the very real dangers of
life without it." Lynn K.


BWEEEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!

WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
for 20 YEARS

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day.

I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information I have learned.
But if I were ever to post such sh*t, I would hope that every
other reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn the
right to participate in by observing the easily understood
rules and contributing to in constructive ways."

Lynn K.

-----------------------------------------



The Puppy Wizard
2004-01-30 00:51:22 EST
HOWEDY Tamara,

"Tamara Byfield" <tamarabyfield@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:4019b769$1_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
>
> Hi there
>
> I was wondering if anyone could give me any advice.
> I have a 9 week old German Shepherd puppy,

Well, for SHORE you'll need some HOWEsbreaking advice:

"The Koehler Method of Dog Training" Howell Book
House, 1996 William Koehler

Koehler On Correcting The Housebreaking Backslider.

"If the punishment is not severe enough, some of these
"backsliders" will think they're winning and will continue
to mess in the house. An indelible impression can
sometimes be made by giving the dog a hard spanking of
long duration, then leaving him tied by the mess he's
made so you can come back at twenty minute intervals
and punish him again for the same thing. (Dogs are
REALLY stupid. J.H.)

In most cases, the dog that deliberately does this
disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the light
spanking that some owners seem to think is adequate
punishment. It will be better for your dog, as well
as the house, if you really pour it on him."

"The Koehler Method of Dog Training" Howell Book
House, 1996 William Koehler

"Housebreaking problems":

Occasionally, there is a pup who seems determined to
relieve himself inside the house, regardless of how
often he has the opportunity to go outside. This dog
may require punishment. Make certain he is equipped
with a collar and piece of line so he can't avoid correction.

When you discover a mess, move in fast, take him to
the place of his error, and hold his head close enough
so that he associates his error with the punishment.
Punish him by spanking him with a light strap or
switch. Either one is better than a folded newspaper.

It is important to your future relationship that you do
not rush at him and start swinging before you get hold of him.

When he's been spanked, take him outside. Chances
are, if you are careful in your feeding and close
observation, you will not have to do much punishing.
Be consistent in your handling. To have a pup almost
house-broken and then force him to commit an error by
not providing an opportunity to go outside is very
unfair. Careful planning will make your job easier.

The same general techniques of housebreaking apply
to grown dogs that are inexperienced in the house.

For the grown dog who was reliable in the house and
then backslides, the method of correction differs
somewhat. In this group of "backsliders" we have the
"revenge piddler." This dog protests being alone by
messing on the floor and often in the middle of a bed.

The first step of correction is to confine the dog
closely in a part of the house when you go away, so
that he is constantly reminded of his obligation. The
fact that he once was reliable in the house is proof
that the dog knows right from wrong, and it leaves you
no other course than to punish him sufficiently to
convince him that the satisfaction of his wrongdoing is
not worth the consequences.

If the punishment is not severe enough, some of these
"backsliders" will think they're winning and will
continue to mess in the house. An indelible impression
can sometimes be made by giving the dog a hard
spanking of long duration, then leaving him tied by the
mess he's made so you can come back at twenty
minute intervals and punish him again for the same
thing.

In most cases, the dog that deliberately does
this disagreeable thing cannot be made reliable by the
light spanking that some owners seem to think is
adequate punishment. It will be better for your dog, as
well as the house, if you really pour it on him.

Some of the new "breaking scents" on the market can
aid in your house-breaking program. One type
discourages the dog from even visiting an
area. Another encourages him to relieve himself in the
area where it is sprinkled. Your pet shop should be
able to supply further information on the brands available in
your district.

Be fair to your dog in what and when you feed him and
be consistent in your efforts to housebreak him, and
you'll soon accomplish the job.



The Puppy Wizard
2004-01-30 00:51:38 EST
HOWEDY Tamara,

"Tamara Byfield" <tamarabyfield@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:4019b769$1_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
> Hi there
>
> I was wondering if anyone could give me any advice.
> I have a 9 week old German Shepherd puppy,

INDEED.

Puppys can be noisy:

"The Koehler Method of Dog Training" Howell Book
House, 1996 William Koehler

BARKING, WHINING, HOWLING, YODELING,
SCREAMING, AND WAILING

The fact that you realize you have such a problem makes it
certain you have "reproved" the dog often enough to let him
know you were against his sound effects, even though your
reproving didn't quiet them, so we'll bypass the loudly
clapped hands, the cup of water in his face, and the
"shame-shames" and start with something more emphatic.

We'll begin with the easiest kind of vocalist to correct: the
one that charges gates, fences, doors, and windows, barking
furiously at familiar or imaginary people and objects. A few
clusters of BBs from a good slingshot, in conjunction with the
light line and plenty of temptations, will cause such a dog to
use his mind rather than his mouth.

But you won't make the permanent impression unless you
supply dozens of opportunities for him to exercise the control
he thus acquires. Make sure these opportunities don't always
come at the same time of the day, else he may learn to observe
the "quiet hour" and pursue his old routines at other times.

With the help of the light line, it will be easy to follow the
BBs with a long down to make sure he gets the most from his
lesson. As was mentioned before, eliminating the senseless
barking will not lessen the dog's value as a watchdog but
rather, as he grows more discriminating, increase it.

The dog who vocalizes in bratty protest or lonesomeness
because you're gone constitutes a different problem. If it is
impractical for someone to stay with him constantly (there are
owners who cater to neurosis by employing dog sitters), you'll
have to heed the neighbors and the law and quiet the dog. This
calls for a little ingenuity as well as a heavy hand.

Attach a line to your dog's collar, so your corrective effort
doesn't turn into a footrace around the house until you reach
a stalemate under the bed. This use of the line in the
correction will also serve to establish it as a reminder to be
quiet as the dog drags it around when you're not present.
Next, equip yourself with a man's leather belt or a strap
heavy enough to give your particular dog a good tanning.

Yup-we're going to strike him. Real hard. Remember,
you're dealing with a dog who knows he should be quiet and
neighbors who have legal rights to see that he does.

Now leave, and let your fading footsteps tell the dog of your
going. When you've walked to a point where he'll think you're
gone but where you could hear any noises he might make, stop
and listen. If you find a comfortable waiting place on a
nearby porch, be careful not to talk or laugh. Tests show a
dog's hearing to be many times as sharp as yours.

When the noise comes, instead of trying to sneak up to the
door so you can barge in while he's still barking, which is
generally impossible, respond to his first sound with an
emphatic bellow of "out," and keep on bellowing as you charge
back to his area.

Thunder through the door or gate, snatch up the belt that
you've conveniently placed, and descend on him. He'll have no
chance to dodge if you grab the line and reel him in until
his front feet are raised off the floor or, if he's a big dog,
until you've snubbed him up with a hitch on something. While
he's held in close, lay the strap vigorously against his
thighs.

Keep pouring it on him until he thinks it's the bitter end. A
real whaling now may cut down somewhat on the number of repeat
performances that will be necessary.

When you're finished and the dog is convinced that he is, put
him on a long down to think things over while you catch your
breath. After fifteen or twenty minutes, release him from the
stay and leave the area again.

So that you won't feel remorseful, reflect on the truth that a
great percentage of the barkers who are given away to "good
homes" end up in the kindly black box with the sweet smell.
Personally, I've always felt that it's even better to spank
children, even if they "cry out," than to "put them to sleep."

You might have a long wait on that comfortable porch before
your dog starts broadcasting again. When he does, let your
long range bellow tie the consequent correction to his first
sound and repeat the spanking, if anything emphasizing it a
bit more.

It might be necessary to spend a Saturday or another day off
so that you'll have time to follow through sufficiently. When
you have a full day, you will be able to convince him each
yelp will have a bad consequence, and the consistency will
make your job easier. If he gets away with his concert part of
the time, he'll be apt to gamble on your inconsistency.

After a half dozen corrections, "the reason and the
correction" will be tied in close enough association so that
you can move in on him without the preliminary bellowing of
"out." From then on, it's just a case of laying for the dog
and supplying enough bad consequences of his noise so he'll no
longer feel like gambling.

Occasionally, there is a dog who seems to sense that you're
hiding nearby and will utter no sound. He also seems to sense
when you have really gone away, at least according to the
neighbors. Maybe his sensing actually amounts to close
observation. He could be watching and listening for the signs
of your actual going.

Make a convincing operation of leaving, even if it requires
changing clothes and being unusually noisy as you slam the
doors on the family car and drive away. Arrange with a friend
to trade cars a block or two from your house so you can come
back and park within earshot without a single familiar sound
to tell the dog you've returned. A few of these car changes
are generally enough to fool the most alert dog.

Whether your dog believes you are gone anytime you step out of
the house or requires the production of changing clothes and
driving off, keep working until even your neighbors admit the
dog has reformed. If there has been a long history of barking
and whining, it sometimes requires a lot of work to make a dog
be quiet when you're not around, so give the above method an
honest try before you presume your dog requires a more severe
correction."



The Puppy Wizard
2004-01-30 00:59:06 EST

"Tamara Byfield" <tamarabyfield@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:4019b769$1_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
> Hi there
>
> I was wondering if anyone could give me any advice.
> I have a 9 week old German Shepherd puppy,

INDEED.

Puppys can be obstinate:

The Koehler Method of Dog Training (1962).
New York: Howell Book Book House(p. 52-53)."

THE REAL "HOOD"
"If your dog is a real "hood" who would regard the foregoing
types of protest as "kid stuff" and would express his
resentment of your efforts by biting, your problem is
difficult -- and pressing. "Professional trainers often get
these extreme problems.

Nearly always the "protest biter" is the handiwork of
a person who, by avoiding situations that the dog might
resent, has nurtured the seeds of rebellion and then
cultivated the resultant growth with under correction.

When these people reap their inevitable and oftentimes
painful harvest, they are ready to avail themselves of "the
cruel trainer" whose advice they may have once rejected
because it was incompatible with the sugary droolings of
mealy-mouthed columnists, breed-ring biddies, and dog
psychologists who, by the broken skins and broken hearts
their misinformation causes, can be proven guilty of the
greatest act of cruelty to animals since the dawn of time.

"With more genuine compassion for the biting dog than would
ever be demonstrated by those who are "too kind" to make a
correction and certainly with more disregard for his safety,
the professional trainer morally feels obligated to perform a
"major operation." "Since we are presently concerned with the
dog that bites in resentment of the demands of training, we
will set our example in that situation. (In a later chapter
we will deal with the with the much easier problem of the dog
that bites someone other than his master."

Hanging

"First, the trainer makes certain that the collar and leash
are more than adequate for any jerk or strain that the dog's
most frantic actions could cause. Then he starts to work
the dog deliberately and fairly to the point where the dog
makes his grab. Before the teeth have reached their target,
the dog, weight permitting, is jerked from the ground.

As in coping with some of the afore-mentioned problems
the dog is suspended in mid-air.

However, to let the biting dog recover his footing while he
still had the strength to renew the attack would be cruelty.
The only justifiable course is to hold him suspended until he
has neither the strength nor inclination to renew the fight.
When finally it is obvious that he is physically incapable of
expressing his resentment and is lowered to the ground, he
will probably stagger loop-legged for a few steps, vomit once
or twice, and roll over on his side. The sight of a dog
lying, thick-tongued, on his side, is not pleasant, but do
not let it alarm you




The Puppy Wizard
2004-01-30 00:59:22 EST
HOWEDY Tamara,

"Tamara Byfield" <tamarabyfield@iprimus.com.au> wrote in message
news:4019b769$1_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
>
> Hi there

INDEED.

Permit The Puppy Wizard to
introduce you arHOWEND:


WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
for 20 YEARS

I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM

"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day.

I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information I have learned.
But if I were ever to post such sh*t, I would hope that every
other reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."

"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn the
right to participate in by observing the easily understood
rules and contributing to in constructive ways."

Lynn K.

----------------------------------------

lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.

- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.

Lynn K.

--------------------------

>>Lynn K. wrote:
>>
>>"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in one
>>shelter.) But their ability to set their own schedules and
>>duties causes a great deal of scheduling overhead.
>>
>>And it takes effort and thought to ensure that volunteers
>>get the meaningful experience that they work for.
>>
>>Someone has to be responsible for that Volunteer Program,
>>and it is best done by a non-volunteer."
>>
>>Lynn K. ---------------------------------


I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIM


LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar
conversation on Mental problems. LYNN AND
LOIS Almost 50 years on mental illness
medications combined.

YOU DO THE MATH.

> But I think what Lois was referring to
> was the fact that Darlene actually
> stated at some point that she was
> bipolar--and, IIRC, that meds did not work
> for her--so she was prone to major-league
> ups and downs and sudden
> enthusiasms..

"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."

Lynn K.

-----------------------------------------

LYNN K. and the UNQUIET MIND
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosmakos@home.com)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/03

BoxHill wrote:

> I know I am totally off topic here, but have
> you read "The Unquiet Mind"?

Yeah. It's interesting, but kind of
watered down for the mass market, if
you know what I mean. There's really
quite a lot of good work out there and
decent research. Thank God.

Lynn K.
---------------------------------------


MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION "KUCKOO!!
CUCKOO!!!" MOTHER (LOIS E.) 22 YEARS on
TRICYCLICS, DAUGHTER BIPOLAR...

YOU DO THE MATH

"What's really terrific, is now days you can
say proudly, 'I take anti-depressives'"

From: Gary & lois Edwards (garyl@bmi.net)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/02

BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS

"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics
for about 22 years. Been there, done that, have
the t-shirt to prove it. What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly, "I take
anti-depressives". Back when I started
taking them it was seen as something shameful.

If you cut your leg off, and were lying there with
a bleeding stump, you'd never let the word
depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have
any pain meds.....you could become addicted."

The good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's
father locked her in her room back in the twenties
because she was simple. A shame that medication
probably would have helped her live a normal life.

No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
personality, she has a way of making grandiose
plans when at the top of her manic cycle....as
does my daughter. I wasn't saying that anyone
with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."

Lois E.

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