Dog Discussion: No Good Turn Goes Unpunished

No Good Turn Goes Unpunished
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Anonymous Sender
2003-07-11 12:20:47 EST
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess I'm posting this because I need some help thinking it through.
Please read this carefully before you reply. I really don't need any
lame answers.

My neighbors bought a puppy, which they treat like a stick of furniture.
They never walk it, play with it, or give it any attention. They do
feed it, but I've had to remind them to do it.

I felt sorry for this adorable little puppy, whom everyone seems to
love as he is a real charmer. I feared that if I complained they
would simply drop the pet off at a shelter and it would be euthanized.

So, I started walking the dog, playing with it, buying it toys, helping
to feed it. I haven't gotten a dog myself because my lifestyle is
unstable, both ecomically and physically. I didn't want to subject a
dog to this, or myself. Now I am emotionally attached to this dog and
he is really so loveable.

The latest is that the landlord and others have been complaining about
the dog who barks at them and nips at their heels in a playful way.
He is not biting, but is a border collie and this is the way he tries to
get people to stop and pay attention to him.

The landlord and others egress their ajoining property through our
back yard. The owner of the dog has been keeping the dog chained and I
have been lengthening the chain, feeling sorry for the dog in the 100
degree plus heat. There is shade, but not much room to run around.

So, I have become the bad guy for letting the dog have a few more feet
to run around. It is illegal in our city to chain a dog outside.

(anti-censor askldfjadkfjwe0raoerrjaksdjfklja;kdfjaksdjfkasdfjjkej
dajfkasdjfkdjfje9r9edanc adflkjaskdjf dkfjskdfj-edkfakfj sda flkjf
dlajkfe9-as=f=fsdafdlfjlkjfkl)

In response to our landlords complaining and threats about the dog, I
finally wrote him a check for $50 to buy materials for a section of fence
to complete a old fence that was partly taken out by him and partly
destroyed by another neighbors dog. I helped put in the fence which
a good day's work.

Now I see that the dog no longer has to be chained, but really has not
much more room to run about than he had before, but at least he has no
chain to get caught on things. I am however worried that he will eventually
figure out a way to break out of the fencing.

Now the owner of the dog, the one who ignores him and TWICE I caught him
abusing the dog by playing rough with it to the extent that it shrieked
in pain-he now is careful to watch out for me, since he knows I despise
this kind of treatment. If I video taped it, I could have him criminally
charged for animal abuse.

Now the owner is pissed off at me for fencing our backyard for the dog.
I think it's because we didn't get his approval or he wants the backyard
to be open. He rarely, if ever uses it.

I am really tired of all this. I don't want to see the dog given up
to some shelter, but it is starting to cause me real problems that I
don't need. Plus it is getting to be expensive.

If anyone has any good ideas on how to deal with this situation, I'm
all ears. I would like to stay on good terms with this neighbor, but
it's getting difficult.


Charles Richmond
2003-07-11 16:10:02 EST
Anonymous Sender wrote:
>
> [snipped long story of dog with bad "parents"...]
>
> I am really tired of all this. I don't want to see the dog given up
> to some shelter, but it is starting to cause me real problems that I
> don't need. Plus it is getting to be expensive.
>
> If anyone has any good ideas on how to deal with this situation, I'm
> all ears. I would like to stay on good terms with this neighbor, but
> it's getting difficult.
>
I agree with others here: buy the dog. And start by offering half
what you are really willing to offer for the dog, so you have some
room to negotiate.

My opinion is that you needn't worry about being on "good terms"
with this neighbor. He seems the unstable type who might turn
on you for *no* reason at all...


--
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Charles and Francis Richmond richmond at plano dot net |
+----------------------------------------------------------------+

*@copper.net
2003-07-11 21:09:00 EST
I would report it to the authorities. Let them know what's going on -
otherwise you're doing the dog no good. Then tell them that you'll help find
the dog a decent home. That's the best you can do for the dog, since you
can't keep him yourself. Don't worry about being on good terms with the
neighbor - who'd want to be or even care?!

Anonymous Sender <anonymous@remailer.metacolo.com> wrote in message
news:3a4fe0809d7b67ba936ea4e06265d6cb@remailer.metacolo.com...
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I guess I'm posting this because I need some help thinking it through.
> Please read this carefully before you reply. I really don't need any
> lame answers.
>
> My neighbors bought a puppy, which they treat like a stick of furniture.
> They never walk it, play with it, or give it any attention. They do
> feed it, but I've had to remind them to do it.
>
> I felt sorry for this adorable little puppy, whom everyone seems to
> love as he is a real charmer. I feared that if I complained they
> would simply drop the pet off at a shelter and it would be euthanized.
>
> So, I started walking the dog, playing with it, buying it toys, helping
> to feed it. I haven't gotten a dog myself because my lifestyle is
> unstable, both ecomically and physically. I didn't want to subject a
> dog to this, or myself. Now I am emotionally attached to this dog and
> he is really so loveable.
>
> The latest is that the landlord and others have been complaining about
> the dog who barks at them and nips at their heels in a playful way.
> He is not biting, but is a border collie and this is the way he tries to
> get people to stop and pay attention to him.
>
> The landlord and others egress their ajoining property through our
> back yard. The owner of the dog has been keeping the dog chained and I
> have been lengthening the chain, feeling sorry for the dog in the 100
> degree plus heat. There is shade, but not much room to run around.
>
> So, I have become the bad guy for letting the dog have a few more feet
> to run around. It is illegal in our city to chain a dog outside.
>
> (anti-censor askldfjadkfjwe0raoerrjaksdjfklja;kdfjaksdjfkasdfjjkej
> dajfkasdjfkdjfje9r9edanc adflkjaskdjf dkfjskdfj-edkfakfj sda flkjf
> dlajkfe9-as=f=fsdafdlfjlkjfkl)
>
> In response to our landlords complaining and threats about the dog, I
> finally wrote him a check for $50 to buy materials for a section of fence
> to complete a old fence that was partly taken out by him and partly
> destroyed by another neighbors dog. I helped put in the fence which
> a good day's work.
>
> Now I see that the dog no longer has to be chained, but really has not
> much more room to run about than he had before, but at least he has no
> chain to get caught on things. I am however worried that he will
eventually
> figure out a way to break out of the fencing.
>
> Now the owner of the dog, the one who ignores him and TWICE I caught him
> abusing the dog by playing rough with it to the extent that it shrieked
> in pain-he now is careful to watch out for me, since he knows I despise
> this kind of treatment. If I video taped it, I could have him criminally
> charged for animal abuse.
>
> Now the owner is pissed off at me for fencing our backyard for the dog.
> I think it's because we didn't get his approval or he wants the backyard
> to be open. He rarely, if ever uses it.
>
> I am really tired of all this. I don't want to see the dog given up
> to some shelter, but it is starting to cause me real problems that I
> don't need. Plus it is getting to be expensive.
>
> If anyone has any good ideas on how to deal with this situation, I'm
> all ears. I would like to stay on good terms with this neighbor, but
> it's getting difficult.
>



CM
2003-07-13 18:46:48 EST
To be honest, I don't think your neighbor just bought the puppy to abuse,
and I don't think anyone will bought a puppy to abuse.
Most likely he just doesn't know how to deal with the dog, and he losts
patient.

> They never walk it, play with it, or give it any attention. They do
> feed it, but I've had to remind them to do it.

I don't know how old is that puppy, but my vet and the pet store where I
bought mine from, forbidden me to walk my puppy before 4 months old because
they said the puppy will catch fleas and other adult dogs' sickness. So
maybe that is what your neighbor is concerned? (My neighbor's dog is older
he still doesn't allow it out coz he doesn't want him to catch fleas and
sickness) You said they never play with it but they were caught playing
rough with it twice? Did they not play with it or they just don't know how?
As for feeding, the vet told me to feed a puppy once or twice or 3 times a
day is enough (I was amazed when he told me, ONCE??), maybe he choses to
feed only once? Unless you are looking at the dog's bowl 24/7 and it's
still empty therefore you remind them.

> So, I started walking the dog, playing with it, buying it toys, helping
> to feed it. I haven't gotten a dog myself because my lifestyle is

Playing with it is easy, but living with it is not. Do you clean up their
dog's poop and pee also? If their dog poop and pee in their house, do you
clean up their house also? If they have been puppy bitten to bleed, do you
think they still dare to let their skin touch the dog's teeth? One thing I
don't agree with you is, you never live with them with the dog, how can you
critically think they are abusing it?

Maybe he chains the puppy in the backyard is coz he also wants the dog to be
outdoor, but he doesn't want the dog run away and someone took it, yet he
also doesn't want to fence the backyard, he loves the backyard open. And
then you fence the backyard, how can he not piss off. Why not he just lock
his dog in a crate, instead of letting the dog out letting you to see he is
abusing the dog, isn't it easier for him?

When I tried to train my puppy, I was scolded by my vet BADLY, saying I am
too soft to my puppy, he said I have to be strict maybe have to be a bit
cruel at the beginning, to discipline the puppy, letting it know who is the
master. Perhaps that puppy's owner is disciplining his dog in some sorts of
ways?

If you really think they are abusing the puppy, you should get them a puppy
trainer or someone with good puppy experience for a visit, to teach them how
to be a puppy owner and how to discipline the puppy properly. Who knows
what you are doing now is actually just spoiling the puppy and making it
even worse when it grows up?






"Anonymous Sender" <anonymous@remailer.metacolo.com> wrote in message
news:3a4fe0809d7b67ba936ea4e06265d6cb@remailer.metacolo.com...
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I guess I'm posting this because I need some help thinking it through.
> Please read this carefully before you reply. I really don't need any
> lame answers.
>
> My neighbors bought a puppy, which they treat like a stick of furniture.
> They never walk it, play with it, or give it any attention. They do
> feed it, but I've had to remind them to do it.
>
> I felt sorry for this adorable little puppy, whom everyone seems to
> love as he is a real charmer. I feared that if I complained they
> would simply drop the pet off at a shelter and it would be euthanized.
>
> So, I started walking the dog, playing with it, buying it toys, helping
> to feed it. I haven't gotten a dog myself because my lifestyle is
> unstable, both ecomically and physically. I didn't want to subject a
> dog to this, or myself. Now I am emotionally attached to this dog and
> he is really so loveable.
>
> The latest is that the landlord and others have been complaining about
> the dog who barks at them and nips at their heels in a playful way.
> He is not biting, but is a border collie and this is the way he tries to
> get people to stop and pay attention to him.
>
> The landlord and others egress their ajoining property through our
> back yard. The owner of the dog has been keeping the dog chained and I
> have been lengthening the chain, feeling sorry for the dog in the 100
> degree plus heat. There is shade, but not much room to run around.
>
> So, I have become the bad guy for letting the dog have a few more feet
> to run around. It is illegal in our city to chain a dog outside.
>
> (anti-censor askldfjadkfjwe0raoerrjaksdjfklja;kdfjaksdjfkasdfjjkej
> dajfkasdjfkdjfje9r9edanc adflkjaskdjf dkfjskdfj-edkfakfj sda flkjf
> dlajkfe9-as=f=fsdafdlfjlkjfkl)
>
> In response to our landlords complaining and threats about the dog, I
> finally wrote him a check for $50 to buy materials for a section of fence
> to complete a old fence that was partly taken out by him and partly
> destroyed by another neighbors dog. I helped put in the fence which
> a good day's work.
>
> Now I see that the dog no longer has to be chained, but really has not
> much more room to run about than he had before, but at least he has no
> chain to get caught on things. I am however worried that he will
eventually
> figure out a way to break out of the fencing.
>
> Now the owner of the dog, the one who ignores him and TWICE I caught him
> abusing the dog by playing rough with it to the extent that it shrieked
> in pain-he now is careful to watch out for me, since he knows I despise
> this kind of treatment. If I video taped it, I could have him criminally
> charged for animal abuse.
>
> Now the owner is pissed off at me for fencing our backyard for the dog.
> I think it's because we didn't get his approval or he wants the backyard
> to be open. He rarely, if ever uses it.
>
> I am really tired of all this. I don't want to see the dog given up
> to some shelter, but it is starting to cause me real problems that I
> don't need. Plus it is getting to be expensive.
>
> If anyone has any good ideas on how to deal with this situation, I'm
> all ears. I would like to stay on good terms with this neighbor, but
> it's getting difficult.
>



The Puppy Wizard
2003-07-13 21:36:41 EST
Get back on the bus, chuck.

You forgot to suggest he go work as a volunteer at the euthanasia room so
other dogs don't got to suffer like that.

"Support Your Local Community Band" <chuck_petterson@spamxexcite.com> wrote
in message news:3f0f3997_2@corp.newsgroups.com...
> Lets see if I have this right. You are concerned about the dog but not
> willing to commit to any "ultimate" action.
>
> All you are doing is interfering in another person's life "for the sake of
> the dog", yet you really aren't improving the dog's situation at all.
>
> If you are going to get involved it has to be with commitment, otherwise
all
> you are doing is "playing house".
>
> You have two options, as I see it from your story: ignore the dog or
report
> the owner for animal cruelty.
>
> Yes it may break your heart. There are a lot of bad situations we all
> can/do encounter every day, but each of us has limitations as far as
> resources go. Report the dog or ignore it. In either case, move on.
>
> chuck petterson
> rescue bus driver
>
> "Anonymous Sender" <anonymous@remailer.metacolo.com> wrote in message
> news:3a4fe0809d7b67ba936ea4e06265d6cb@remailer.metacolo.com...
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I guess I'm posting this because I need some help thinking it through.
> > Please read this carefully before you reply. I really don't need any
> > lame answers.
> >
> > My neighbors bought a puppy, which they treat like a stick of
furniture.
> > They never walk it, play with it, or give it any attention. They do
> > feed it, but I've had to remind them to do it.
> >
> > I felt sorry for this adorable little puppy, whom everyone seems to
> > love as he is a real charmer. I feared that if I complained they
> > would simply drop the pet off at a shelter and it would be euthanized.
> >
> > So, I started walking the dog, playing with it, buying it toys, helping
> > to feed it. I haven't gotten a dog myself because my lifestyle is
> > unstable, both ecomically and physically. I didn't want to subject a
> > dog to this, or myself. Now I am emotionally attached to this dog and
> > he is really so loveable.
> >
> > The latest is that the landlord and others have been complaining about
> > the dog who barks at them and nips at their heels in a playful way.
> > He is not biting, but is a border collie and this is the way he tries to
> > get people to stop and pay attention to him.
> >
> > The landlord and others egress their ajoining property through our
> > back yard. The owner of the dog has been keeping the dog chained and I
> > have been lengthening the chain, feeling sorry for the dog in the 100
> > degree plus heat. There is shade, but not much room to run around.
> >
> > So, I have become the bad guy for letting the dog have a few more feet
> > to run around. It is illegal in our city to chain a dog outside.
> >
> > (anti-censor askldfjadkfjwe0raoerrjaksdjfklja;kdfjaksdjfkasdfjjkej
> > dajfkasdjfkdjfje9r9edanc adflkjaskdjf dkfjskdfj-edkfakfj sda flkjf
> > dlajkfe9-as=f=fsdafdlfjlkjfkl)
> >
> > In response to our landlords complaining and threats about the dog, I
> > finally wrote him a check for $50 to buy materials for a section of
fence
> > to complete a old fence that was partly taken out by him and partly
> > destroyed by another neighbors dog. I helped put in the fence which
> > a good day's work.
> >
> > Now I see that the dog no longer has to be chained, but really has not
> > much more room to run about than he had before, but at least he has no
> > chain to get caught on things. I am however worried that he will
> eventually
> > figure out a way to break out of the fencing.
> >
> > Now the owner of the dog, the one who ignores him and TWICE I caught him
> > abusing the dog by playing rough with it to the extent that it shrieked
> > in pain-he now is careful to watch out for me, since he knows I despise
> > this kind of treatment. If I video taped it, I could have him criminally
> > charged for animal abuse.
> >
> > Now the owner is pissed off at me for fencing our backyard for the dog.
> > I think it's because we didn't get his approval or he wants the backyard
> > to be open. He rarely, if ever uses it.
> >
> > I am really tired of all this. I don't want to see the dog given up
> > to some shelter, but it is starting to cause me real problems that I
> > don't need. Plus it is getting to be expensive.
> >
> > If anyone has any good ideas on how to deal with this situation, I'm
> > all ears. I would like to stay on good terms with this neighbor, but
> > it's getting difficult.
> >
>
>
>
>
> -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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>



The Puppy Wizard
2003-07-13 22:07:01 EST
HOWEDY CM,

"CM" <marshmalNOSPAM@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:sjlQa.32015$1aB1.19015@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
:
> To be honest, I don't think your neighbor just bought the puppy to abuse,

That'd be highly unlikely.

> and I don't think anyone will bought a puppy to abuse.

It hapens, but it's rare. People just don't know HOWE to handle
and train their dogs.

> Most likely he just doesn't know how to deal with the dog,

Right.

> and he losts patient.

That's sumpthin HOWER DOG LOVERS NEVER DO!
When they HURT their dogs they do it INTENTIONALLY
cause they haven't got the intellect to HOWEtwit the
cunning of the domestic puppy dog.

> > They never walk it, play with it, or give it any attention.

Would we prefer to see IT get jerked and choked arHOWEND
for a HOWER a day on a nice spiked pinch choke collar or
gettin shocked doin obedience training?

> > They do feed it, but I've had to remind them to do it.

Excellent.

> I don't know how old is that puppy, but my vet and the pet store where I
> bought mine from, forbidden me to walk my puppy before 4 months old
because
> they said the puppy will catch fleas and other adult dogs' sickness.

Yeah, you got to be careful what you expose a young pup to.

> So maybe that is what your neighbor is concerned?

Probably not, but it doesn't sHOWEnd like abuse.

> (My neighbor's dog is older he still doesn't allow it out coz he doesn't
> want him to catch fleas and sickness)

LikeWIZE.

> You said they never play with it but they were caught playing
> rough with it twice? Did they not play with it or they just don't know
how?

HOWER DOG LOVERS LET THEIR DOGS DICTATE HOWE ROUGH
THEY'RE GONNA PLAY.

> As for feeding, the vet told me to feed a puppy once or twice or 3 times a
> day is enough (I was amazed when he told me, ONCE??),

That is curiHOWES, ain't it.

> maybe he choses to feed only once? Unless you are looking
> at the dog's bowl 24/7 and it's still empty therefore you remind them.

Right.

> > So, I started walking the dog, playing with it, buying it toys, helping
> > to feed it. I haven't gotten a dog myself because my lifestyle is
>
> Playing with it is easy, but living with it is not.

Not unless you know HOWE to handle and train a pup. Have
YOU read your FREE copy of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual?

> Do you clean up their dog's poop and pee also? If their dog
> poop and pee in their house, do you clean up their house also?

That's HOWE COME a lot of dogs live HOWEtside. Only takes
a day or two to HOWEsbreak a dog.

> If they have been puppy bitten to bleed, do you
> think they still dare to let their skin touch the dog's teeth?

MHOWEthing is EZ to break if you don't confront and
scold and punish the dog for his bonding efforts.

> One thing I don't agree with you is, you never live with
> them with the dog, how can you critically think they are
> abusing it?

The dog isn't the problem...

You sHOWEnd a lot like The Puppy Wizard...

From: sara losmon (slosmon@hotmail.com)
Subject: Re: "Stick" obedience and turning down a job. ninnyboy
Date: 2001-02-25 11:38:07 PST

Uh. NO ONE fears you. Everyone has you killfiled simply because you are a
huge jackass, a bitter asshole, a **rude** punk and a crazy/senile old fuck
who abuses humans and molests children. Thats why you are killfiled.

The truth hurts, doesn't it?

Message 2 in thread
From: Shelly (shellbee@uswest.net)
Subject: Re: "Stick" obedience and turning down a job. ninnyboy

Date: 2001-02-25 15:06:05 PST
"sara losmon" <slosmon@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:E9dm6.847$MX.8449175@news2.news.adelphia.net...
> The truth hurts, doesn't it?
>
My guess is that you're replying to Jerry?
Please post "Ninnyboy" in the subject so those of us
who killfiled him ages ago can be Jerry-free.

Thanks :-)
Shelly, Coda & Guiness..


"Shelly" <shellbee@uswest.net> wrote in message
news:zmbm6.3862$e23.206326@news.uswest.net...
> Eeesh.

> Last week, both my best friend and I shared a bit
> of "good news". I had been approached by the
> trainer where I take Coda now & then for obedience
> work.

<snip good news>

> And my friend had possibly found work at a
> local Retreiving Kennel.
:
> Yesterday I had the chance to catch up on
> some gossip & such w/ my friend.
> She currently has two 5 yr old Golden
> Retreivers (littermates, a brother & a
> sister), and a 5 yr. old Sheltie. She's
> done work as a handler of dogs in
> the conformation ring (Smooth Collies,
> Shelties & Belgian Sheepdogs), and
> some obedience work as well.
:
> Since moving out to the West Coast, she's
> been on hiatus, and she also had a baby
> last spring. Needing a little income, and
> thinking it time to maybe find a part time
> job, she decided to call a local Retreiver
> kennel to see if they have any work openings.
:
> Spoke w/ the owner last week, all sounded
> great. Friday she finally set up a meeting
> at the kennel with the owner. He brought
> out a brood-bitch Lab and asked her to
> groom her, and then he left the room.
:
> So, she did, calming tones, coaxing, the bitch.
> She acted up a bit when she got her up on
> the table, but when she started talking to her,
> and brushing and grooming, the dog calmed
> down.
:
> Awhile later, the owner came back and
> complimented on how nice the dog looked.
> He then asked my friend to run the dog
> thru a few obedience moves (on-leash
> heeling--stopping and then going, and
> a couple figure 8's).
:
> Of course, this is a brood-bitch that
> isn't shown any longer, and was
> never worked in the ob. ring.
:
> She acted up, pulling, lunging, freaking out in
> normal "Dog doesn't know how to walk on a
> leash" fashion.
:
> My friend starts working a bit, she calms
> down a little. The guy calls her back to
> him, and asks, "Have you ever heard of
> "Stick Obedience"?"
:
> She shakes her head, "No, I don't think so,"
> already a bit worried.

> (When the words came out of her mouth
> when relaying the story, I said, "Uh-oh!
> Stick obedience?! What the hell is that?
> It sure doesn't _sound_ good!"
:
> The owner went, grabbed what looked
> like a golf club with no head on it,
> began to walk the bitch thru some
> motions, when she acted up again,
> proceeded to beat the bitch with the
> club, while trying to make her heel.
:
> The bitch was down on the ground,
> whimpering, and urinated everywhere.
:
> My friend just stood there, dumbfounded.
> The guy must've been able to tell by
> the look on her face that she was
> shocked, and said, "You can't use
> that positive reinforcement bullshit on
> these dogs, they're Labs, they'll just
> crap all over you!"
:
> Then he asked her, "Do you think you can
> handle it?"
:
> She looked him square in the eye and said,
> "No way. And I don't know how _any_ person
> with a heart could." Turned around and walked out.
:
> That's two Retreiever kennels in our area that I've
> heard awful stories about the way they treat dogs.
> I know good ones are out there, but around
> here, it's getting rough.

> Eeesh.

> Shelly, Coda & Guiness...

=======================

> > > Jerome Bigge writes:
> > > I do know that hitting, hurting your dog will often make the
> > > dog either aggressive or a fear biter, neither of which we
> > > want to do.
:
> > And neither does anyone else, Jerome. No matter
> > what Jerry Howe states.
:
> > --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
:
> > You're scary Marilyn.
:
> > Marilyn must be quite a disturbed individual. I feel very sorry
> > for her and her family.
> > BUT, giving you the benefit of the doubt, please provide a quote
> > (an original quote, not from one of Jerry Howe's heavily edited
> > diatribes) that shows a regular poster promoting
> > or using an abusive form of training.
> --Matt. Rocky's a Dog.

Is that true, Marilyn?

Of course not~ but THIS IS:

"Chin CHUCK absolutely doesn't mean slap," professora gingold.

"Marshall Dermer" <dermer@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:a3h5qn$mra$1@uwm.edu...

> >Di,
> I don't believe you mentioned a particular kind of training. If you
> are interested in training retrieval behavior than do consider
> our own Amy Dahl's: The 10-Minute Retriever : How to Make a
> Well-Mannered, Obedient and Enthusiastic Gun Dog in 10 Minutes
> a Day by John I. Dahl, Amy Dahl

You failed to mention your pals the dahls are proven liars and dog
abusers, professor "SCRUFF SHAKE:"

"I Would Never Advise Anyone To Slap A Dog I Do Not Believe There
Is A Single Circumstance Ever, Where Slapping A Dog Is Anything
But Destructive," "I don't see why anyone would want to choke or
beat a dog, or how any trainer could possibly get a good working dog by
making them unhapper, fearful, cowering, etc." sez amy lying frosty dahl
who continues:

> just $17.95 at Amazon.com.
> (Also, it is best to killfile posts from the few regulars here who
> are either ill-tempered, ill-mannered, or just plain ill.)
> --Marshall

amy lying frosty dahl continues:

"On the other extreme, the really hard dogs we have trained
require much more frequent and heavy application of
pressure (PAIN j.h.) to get the job done,

This is continued resistance to your increasing authority, and the
job is not done until it is overcome

Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a helper wield the stick, or do it
yourself. Tougher, less tractable dogs may require you to progress to
striking them more sharply

Try pinching the ear between the metal casing and the collar, even the
buckle on the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will give in

but will squeal, thrash around, and direct their efforts to escaping the
ear pinch

You can press the dog's ear with a shotshell instead of your thumb
even get a studded collar and pinch the ear against that

Make the dog's need to stop the pinching so urgent that resisting
your will fades in importance.

CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever Ready Right Hand,
As it catches on, try using the stick and no ear pinch. When the
dog is digging out to beat the stick and seems totally reliable without
any ear pinch, you are finished

This is continued resistance to your increasing authority,
and the job is not done until it is overcome" If the dog drops it, chuck
it solidly under the chin, say "No! Hold!"

(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps because the ear is getting
tender, or the dog has decided it isn't worth it)" lying frosty dahl.

"Chin cuff absolutely does not mean slap," professora gingold.

From: Marshall Dermer (dermer@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
In article <38CC0C43.94E2DDD1@earthlink.net> rhurwitz@earthlink.net
writes:

>> -snip headers etc.
>> Yes. you're right, I really should find the book.. they don't have these
>> books in the local pet stores I frequent, where do you find Koehler?
>I got a nice large print copy from Amazon.com
>Richard

Please try Powell's Books in Portland Oregon. Their URL is:

http://www.powells.com/

Unlike Amazon.com, Powell's keeps both new and used books on
its shelves. You can order books via e-email.

Koehler Method Of Dog Training
by Koehler, W R
Published by HOWELL BOOK HOUSE (0876056575,

========================================================

Here's some quotes and some methods right outta your
koehler book professor "SCRUFF SHAKE and scream "NO!"
into its face for 5 seconds:"

"The Koehler Method of Dog Training (1962). New York:
Howell Book Book House(p. 52-53)."

Hanging

"First, the trainer makes certain that the collar and leash
are more than adequate for any jerk or strain that the
dog's most frantic actions could cause. Then he starts
to work the dog deliberately and fairly to the point where
the dog makes his grab. Before the teeth have reached
their target, the dog, weight permitting, is jerked from
the ground.

As in coping with some of the afore-mentioned problems
the dog is suspended in mid-air.

However, to let the biting dog recover his footing while
he still had the strength to renew the attack would be
cruelty. The only justifiable course is to hold him
suspended until he has neither the strength nor
inclination to renew the fight. When finally it is obvious
that he is physically incapable of expressing his
resentment and is lowered to the ground, he will
probably stagger loop-legged for a few steps,
vomit once or twice, and roll over on his side.

The sight of a dog lying, thick-tongued, on his side,
is not pleasant, but do not let it alarm you." koehler.

===========>
>
>
>
"Anonymous Sender" <anonymous@remailer.metacolo.com> wrote in message
news:3a4fe0809d7b67ba936ea4e06265d6cb@remailer.metacolo.com...
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > I guess I'm posting this because I need some help thinking it through.
> > Please read this carefully before you reply. I really don't need any
> > lame answers.
> >
> > My neighbors bought a puppy, which they treat like a stick of
furniture.
> > They never walk it, play with it, or give it any attention. They do
> > feed it, but I've had to remind them to do it.

> > If anyone has any good ideas on how to deal with this situation, I'm
> > all ears.

You don't say?:

"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch Right, Either
They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They Have A Very Stoic Dog.
Some Dogs Will Collapse Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch:
You Must Keep The Pressure Up" sindy "don't let the dog
SCREAM" mooreon, author of our FAQ'S pages at K9 WEB.

> > I would like to stay on good terms with this neighbor, but
> > it's getting difficult.

NO PROBLEMO! TRY THIS:

"The Koehler Method of Dog Training" , Howell Book House, 1996":

BARKING, WHINING, HOWLING, YODELING, SCREAMING, AND WAILING

The fact that you realize you have such a problem
makes it certain you have "reproved" the dog often
enough to let him know you were against his sound
effects, even though your reproving didn't quiet them,
so we'll bypass the loudly clapped hands, the cup of
water in his face, and the "shame-shames" and start
with something more emphatic.

We'll begin with the easiest kind of vocalist to correct:
the one that charges gates, fences, doors, and
windows, barking furiously at familiar or imaginary
people and objects. A few clusters of BBs from a
good slingshot, in conjunction with the light line and
plenty of temptations, will cause such a dog to use his
mind rather than his mouth.

But you won't make the permanent impression unless
you supply dozens of opportunities for him to exercise
the control he thus acquires. Make sure these
opportunities don't always come at the same time
of the day, else he may learn to observe the "quiet
hour" and pursue his old routines at other times.

With the help of the light line, it will be easy to follow
the BBs with a long down to make sure he gets the
most from his lesson. As was mentioned before,
eliminating the senseless barking will not lessen the
dog's value as a watchdog but rather, as he grows
more discriminating, increase it.

The dog who vocalizes in bratty protest or
lonesomeness because you're gone constitutes a
different problem. If it is impractical for someone
to stay with him constantly (there are owners who
cater to neurosis by employing dog sitters), you'll have
to heed the neighbors and the law and quiet the dog.

This calls for a little ingenuity as well as a heavy hand.

Attach a line to your dog's collar, so your corrective
effort doesn't turn into a footrace around the house
until you reach a stalemate under the bed. This use of
the line in the correction will also serve to establish it
as a reminder to be quiet as the dog drags it around
when you're not present.

Next, equip yourself with a man's leather belt or a
strap heavy enough to give your particular dog a good
tanning. Yup-we're going to strike him. Real hard.
Remember, you're dealing with a dog who knows he
should be quiet and neighbors who have legal rights to
see that he does.

When the noise comes, instead of trying to sneak up to
the door so you can barge in while he's still barking,
which is generally impossible, respond to his first
sound with an emphatic bellow of "out," and keep
on bellowing as you charge back to his area.

Thunder through the door or gate, snatch up the belt
that you've conveniently placed, and descend on him.
He'll have no chance to dodge if you grab the line and
reel him in until his front feet are raised off the floor or,
if he's a big dog, until you've snubbed him up with a
hitch on something.

While he's held in close, lay the strap vigorously against his thighs.

Keep pouring it on him until he thinks it's the bitter
end. A real whaling now may cut down somewhat on
the number of repeat performances that will be
necessary.

When you're finished and the dog is convinced that he
is, put him on a long down to think things over while
you catch your breath. After fifteen or twenty minutes,
release him from the stay and leave the area again.

So that you won't feel remorseful, reflect on the truth
that a great percentage of the barkers who are given
away to "good homes" end up in the kindly black box
with the sweet smell. Personally, I've always felt that
it's even better to spank children, even if they "cry
out," than to "put them to sleep."

You might have a long wait on that comfortable porch
before your dog starts broadcasting again. When he
does, let your long range bellow tie the consequent
correction to his first sound and repeat the
spanking, if anything emphasizing it a bit more.

It might be necessary to spend a Saturday or another
day off so that you'll have time to follow through
sufficiently. When you have a full day, you will be able
to convince him each yelp will have a bad
consequence, and the consistency will make your job
easier. If he gets away with his concert part of the
time, he'll be apt to gamble on your inconsistency.

After a half dozen corrections, "the reason and the
correction" will be tied in close enough association so
that you can move in on him without the preliminary
bellowing of "out." From then on, it's just a case of
laying for the dog and supplying enough bad
consequences of his noise so he'll no longer feel like gambling.

If there has been a long history of barking and whining,
it sometimes requires a lot of work to make a dog be
quiet when you're not around, so give the above
method an honest try before you presume your dog
requires a more severe correction." koehler.





The Puppy Wizard
2003-07-13 22:28:31 EST

"CM" <marshmalNOSPAM@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:sjlQa.32015$1aB1.19015@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> To be honest, I don't think your neighbor just bought the puppy to abuse,
> and I don't think anyone will bought a puppy to abuse.

But they do cause they don't know no goddamned better:


HOWEDY professors, doctors, scientists, and dog lovers,

The Puppy Wizard has been tellin you all along that any negative
interactions produce stress which can cause OCD behaviors as
recently "discovered" by researchers at Purdue, and likeWIZE can
have debilitating effects on the immune / endocrine and other systems.

The latest research from Ohio University PROVES THE LINK between
Interleukin-6 and STRESS such as in simply tellin your dog 'NO!' or
SCRUFF SHAKIN IT or locking IT in a box and IGNORING ITS CRIES
or jerking and choking or shocking or spraying aversives in ITS face,
as The Puppy Wizard has been CRITICIZED for TEACHING HERE
FOR FIVE GODDAMNED YEARS NHOWE.

Current research validates The Puppy Wizard's WILD ASSED
UNSUBSTANTIATED CLAIMS that STRESS from MISHANDLING
can cause damned near EVERY health and temperament problem
just short of including freakin hangnails.

IT'S FREAKIN TIME TO ROLL OVER OR END YOUR CAREERS.

The Puppy Wizard has not been playin games and is ready to bring
HIS FINDINGS to the media and scientific community, at which time
such OBSTRUCTIONISTS as professor LYING DOC, SCRUFF SHAKE
dermer and his ilk, will be TARGETED and this universities held liable
for MALPRACTICE and ANMIMAL ABUSE.

R&D Systems: IL-6
Everything Cytokine & Beyond
ELISAs, proteins, antibodies & more
www.RnDSystems.com

See the article below and review The Puppy Wizzzard's Ten Step
Rehabilitation Program offer:

"Abby Pennington" <liltkdgrl@shoesaol.com> wrote in message
news:jlOMa.131$wc.68848@news.uswest.net...
> dermer@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu (Marshall Dermer) wrote in
> news:be06ls$j6i$1@uwm.edu:
>
> <snip>
>
> I think biopsies are a very good idea. Better to look at the actual
> tissue than to guess! I don't know that I would, if he were my dog, put
> him through having to endure more of these episodes, though I do think
> it's a good idea to bring him to the e-vet should he have another.
>
> BTW, 102.5 isn't a fever. :) Normal canine temp is between 100.5-102.5,
> and we don't get overly excited for anything between 102.5 and 103. (I
> work at an emergency vet clinic)
> --
> -Abby
>
> Pems, Aussie, and a Pug
>
> ****Remove shoes to reply****
>

Researchers Find Link Between Stress And Illness

Jun 30, 2003 5:00 pm US/Eastern
WASHINGTON (AP) It's no surprise that constant stress can make
people sick, and now a team of researchers has figured out how.

A study focused on 119 men and women who were taking care of
spouses with dementia. The health of the caregivers was compared
with that of 106 people of similar ages who were not living under the
stress of constant care giving.

Blood tests showed that a chemical called Interleukin-6 sharply
increased in the blood of the stressed caregivers compared with
blood of the others in the test. Previous studies have associated
IL-6 with several diseases, including heart disease, arthritis,
osteoporosis, type-2 diabetes and certain cancers.

The study also found the increase in IL-6 can linger in caregivers
for as long as three years after a caregiver had ceased that role
because of the spouse's death. Of the test group, 78 spouses
died during the survey.

"This really makes a link to why chronic stress can actually kill
people," said Janice Kiecolt-Glaser, professor of psychology
and psychiatry at Ohio State University. "We haven't had a
good mechanism before."

She explained that people under stress tend to respond by
doing things that can increase their levels of IL-6.

For example, they may smoke or overeat; smoking raises
IL-6 levels, and the chemical is secreted by fat cells.
Stressed people also may not get enough exercise or sleep,
she added. Exercise reduces IL-6, she said, and normal sleep
helps regulate levels of the chemical.

It clearly points to the need to control stress better, she said.

The findings by the research group, headed by Kiecolt-Glaser
and her husband, Ronald Glaser, a professor of molecular
virology, immunology and medical genetics at Ohio State,
appear in this week's issue of Proceedings of the National
Academy of Sciences.


(\ufffd 2003 The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This
material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. )

http://wcbs880.com/siteSearch/health_story_181153905.html

R&D Systems: IL-6
Everything Cytokine & Beyond
ELISAs, proteins, antibodies & more
www.RnDSystems.com


The Puppy Wizard's FREE TEN STEP DIAGNOSTIC / REHABILITATION PROGRAM


HOWEDY professor SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM 'NO!' into
ITS face and lock IT in a box for ten minutes reflection," dermer

Re: Max--Vomiting, Lethargy, Discomfort, Fever -

The Puppy Wizard's FREE TEN STEP DIAGNOSTIC / REHABILITATION PROGRAM

"Marshall Dermer" <dermer@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu> wrote in message
news:be06ls$j6i$1@uwm.edu...
> Max has a new problem:
>
> Max is our 5.5 yr old, neutered Havanese with a history of acute
> gastritis.

The Puppy Wizard believes your dog's health problems
are the physical manifestation of emotional distress.

> Max is fed four times daily for otherwise he vomits.

Ever consider it's your dysfunctional method of intimidating,
punishing, forcing control, and mishandling him thru your
preferred lunacy of duminance, intimidation, forced restraint,
and your SCRUFF SHAKE???

Your dog Maxie The Magnificent Masturbator has OCMD
(obsessive compulsive masturbatory disorder), a dissasociative
anxiety relief mechanism. It's his ONLY defense mechanism,
bein as small as he is. The Puppy Wizard's GIANT breed dogs
would simply SCRUFF SHAKE YOU, and BE DONE with their
ANXIETY, as YOU DO HIM.

> Max has had calcium oxalate uroliths removed about 9 months ago
> and now exclusively eats Hills Canine U/D, plus rice cakes as treats.
>
INDEED. Bribing and withholding treats increases anxiety, which is
restimulated every time the "command" he's been "taught" using
withholding of bribes is requested, even many years into the future.

> Max has had a history of "attacks" that occur about every 30 days.

Your little dog Maxie The Magnificent Masturbator has his DAILY
ATTACKS of ANXIETY on any day you fail to expiate his ANXIETY
thru five miles of bicycle chasing.

IS THAT NOT SO, professor SCRUFF SHAKE?

> Four attacks so far. He vomits, refuses food (but not water), and
> then either becomes lethargic or moves from position to position.

SHOWENDS like the same same same same symptoms CHILDREN
manifest, who DON'T WANT TO GO TO SCHOOL>

> He often also develops a fever.

HOWE HIGH is his fever? The Puppy Wizard KNOWS physical
symptoms such as "idiopathic epilepsy" seizures, "undiagnosed"
intestinal and digestive disorders, ALL OCD behaviors, endocrine
malfunctions, and other PSYCHOSOMATIC disorders can and
usually are, CAUSED BY STRESS.

> The attack two days ago went as follows:

> 1. He vomited at about 5:30 AM with nothing much in the vomit.
>
> 2. At about 9 AM I fed him a little rice ground chicken and
> he vomited this.
>
> 3. By 8 PM his temp was 102.5.

NORMAL temps are 101.5 - 102. THAT SUGGESTS to The
Puppy Wizard that Maxie The Magnificent Masturbator's
"FEVER" is PSYCHOSOMATIC, a result of non physical
STRESS, as in the "Spike & Squirt" phenomena described
in McProtection Training.

> 4. By 10 PM he was hot to the touch, panting, and moving from
> one position to another. He remained in a given position
> for only a few minutes.

Like HOWE a kid who's trying to get HOWET of goin to school today...

> 5. By 3 PM the fever broke and he was resting comfortably.

Like HOWE a kid who's SUCCEEDED at gettin HOWETA school today.

> 6. The following day he was returning to his normal behavior.

Like HOWE a kid who's SATISFIED at having got HOWETA school YESTERDAY.

> 7. Two days, post attack, he is normal though he has loose,
> orange stool. This has cleared up with time.

These symptoms are COMMON, professor. The Puppy Wizard has
SEEN EVIDENCE in the DEAD DOGS who've HAD NO SYMPTOMS
while boarded at The Puppy Wizard's kennels PRYOR to being
MISDIAGNOSED by "THE BEST" VETERINARY SPECIALISTS.

SAME SAME as HOWER friend melanie chang has SEEN with her
dog Solo, while she was on vacation and Solo had the BLISS of a
NORMAL kennel ENVIRONMENT.

> AFTER these attacks we have brought Max to the vet.

KERCHING! KERCHING! KERCHING!

> An x-ray revealed nothing.

Well, it IS fortunate for the VET that you're able to afford such
luxury on a professor's salary.

> A month ago, a sonogram was conducted and his blood was tested for
> one of the pancreatic enzymes (perhaps amalayse). The enzyme test was
> negative.

Well, as time endures and you continue to MISHANDLE him, the
physical symptoms will likely continue to exacerbate, PROFESSOR.
You'll get your "medical" findings, bye and bye, no dHOWEt.

> On reading the sonograms, a veterinary radiologist was not
> concerned about the sludge in Max's gall bladder but was
> concerned that the pancreas had a "hot spot" and that the
> walls of Max's stomach were thickened.

The CONSTANT intermittent STRESS CAUSED BY MISHANDLING
will break dHOWEn ANY organism.

> The radiologist recommended biopsies of the stomach wall and
> pancreas.
>
KERCHING! KERCHING! KERCHING!
>
> One month ago, when the sonogram was taken my vet was reluctant
> to perform the biopsies. He recommended putting Max on Pepcid AC
> daily.

PERHAPS your vet "KNOWS" sumpthin The Puppy Wizard KNOWS, professor?

> So that is what we did. About 2.5 gm every 8 hrs. Despite
> the Pepcid AC Max had an attack two days ago.
>
PRECISELY. You cannot expect ANYTHING to override the
constant restimulation of STRESS produced by INTIMIDATION.

> Now my vet is suggesting exploratory surgery.
>
KERCHING! KERCHING! KERCHING!
>
> I've contacted Max's breeder for his parents produced about
> a dozen puppies. The breeder is not aware of such a problem
> with the other offspring.
>
These and other OCD related behaviors can be duplicated EZ, professor.
>
> My wife is reluctant to have the exploratory surgery performed. I guess
she
> wants to wait and see if Max has another attack. (I feel so sorry for Max
> as he endures these attacks.)
>
DO YOU NHOWE?
>
> Another approach is to bring Max in for a sonogram and additional
> diagnostic work WHEN HE IS ACCUTE.
>
KERCHING! KERCHING! KERCHING!
>
> I talked to the local emergency veterinary clinic and a doctor said
> that this is possible and it would be desirable for the clinic to have
> Max's records so that the clinic does not repeat tests.
>
A WIZE idea, professor.
>
> My own thought, if my wife would agree, is to have exploratory
> surgery about two weeks after an attack.
>
KERCHING! KERCHING! KERCHING!
>
> Any other options or thoughts?

INDEED, professor SCRUFF SHAKE and SCREAM 'NO!' into
ITS face and lock IT in a box for ten minutes reflection," dermer.

First and ONLY WON question is, DO YOU CRATE Maxie The
Magnificent Masturbator? That could be the primary cause of
his STRESS, as at the age of 5 years, he's unlikely to have
any behavior problems which you have not SCRUFF SHAKEN
HOWETA HIM.

Crating RESTIMULATES and REINFORCES phobias, professor.
You'll see EVIDENCE of THAT in Crystal Arcidy's reports on her
FREE WWW Wits' End Trained dog Starr. See "Starry's Scary Night."

The Puppy Wizard has a recommendation and an option which
MIGHT resolve ALL HOWER problems, professor. The reason
the suggestion is modified by MIGHT is, on accHOWEnt of The
Puppy Wizard cannot control the environment if HE'S not there
to SUPERVISE implementation of the TECHNIQUES HE offers
you today.

Here's HOWE to CURE Maxie's OCD behavior's and life threatening
physical health dilemmas:

First, STUDY your FREE copy of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual.

Second, CALL The Puppy Wizard with all members of Maxie's
immediate family so we're ALL on the same page and NOBODY
will CONFLICT with or STRESS him in ANY WAY.

Third, STOP all BRIBES, CORRECTIONS, INTIMIDATION, CRATING,
and discontinue excessive physical exercise to expiate his anxiety. We
WANT his behavior problems to manifest SO WE CAN EXTINGUISH THEM.

Fourth, The Puppy Wizard will LOAN you for FREE, HIS "AMAZING,
MIRACULHOWES, INCREDIBLE" MAGNIFICENT Doggy Do Right
(And Kitty Will And A Rooster Did And A Cockatoo Or Two Did Too)
Machine, and YOU will AGREE to FOLLOW HIS INSTRUCTIONS.

Fifth, you or any family member will call The Puppy Wizard IMMEDIATELY
and relate details and ask advice for appupriately controlling EACH and
EVERY instance of Maxie The Magnificent Masturbator's inappropriate
puppy behavior problems, instead of tellin him "NO!" or otherWIZE
negatively interacting with him.

Sixth, you and each member of your immediate family pack will work
five minutes every other day learning HOWE to expiate your dog Maxie
The Magnificent Masturbator's anxiety thru the MAGICK of The Puppy
Wizard's Four Step Heeling Pattern Exercise as articulated in your FREE
copy of The Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual, to TEACH Maxie there is NOTHING TO FEAR in MAKING MISTAKES.

Seventh, at the end of thirty days, you will report HOWER findings to
your veterinary, the head of your university department of ANAL-ytic
behaviorISM, and to the Whole Wild World...

Eighth, IN RETURN, you will have your dog Maxie The FORMER Magnificent
Masturbator returned to EXCELLENT health, and The Puppy Wizard agrees
to FORGIVE and FORGET ALL PAST INDISCRETIONS and SUBVERSIVE
activities you've committed against The Puppy Wizard and all mankind...

Ninth, you will serve as EMISSARY and sever as EXPERT WITNESS for
The Puppy Wizard and ENDORSE HIS METHODS and MACHINE as the
WON true way to CURE ALL animal and child behavior problems and bring
PEACE, HEALTH, and PROSPERITY to the Whole Wild World.

Tenth, IF YOU FAIL to succeed after your thirty day EXPERIMENT, you'll
agree to ship Maxie The Magnificent Masturbator TO The Puppy Wizard
at HIS EXPENSE, for a two week stay FOR FREE, to PERFORM THE
MAGICK HISSELF.

> Thanks,

It don't get no goddamned better than THAT, professor.

> --Marshall

Thank you,
Jerry Howe,
Director of Research,
BIOSOUND Scientific
Director of Training,
Wits' End Dog Training
1611 24th St
Orlando, FL 32805
Phone: 1-407-425-5092
Phone: 1-888-BIOSOUND (1-888-246-7686)
Phone: 1-888-WITSEND (1-888-948-7363)
http://www.doggydoright.com

The Puppy Wizard. <}TPW ; ~ ) >

ANY QUESTIONS, DUMMIES?
,-._,-,
V)"(V
(_o_) Have a great day!
/ V)
(l l l) Your Puppy Wizzzard. <}YPW ; ~ } >
oo-oo




Seagull
2003-07-17 21:34:22 EST

"CM" <marshmalNOSPAM@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:sjlQa.32015$1aB1.19015@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
>
> I don't know how old is that puppy, but my vet and the pet store where I
> bought mine from, forbidden me to walk my puppy before 4 months old
because
> they said the puppy will catch fleas and other adult dogs' sickness.

That 's nonsense. If the pup is properly vaccinated, it can and should
start walks at around 9 weeks. This is essential for its socialisation. I
can't believe a so-called professional would tell you that. As for fleas,
pups are treated with anti-flea treatment.

> rough with it twice? Did they not play with it or they just don't know
how?

>From what I've read they just don't care.

> As for feeding, the vet told me to feed a puppy once or twice or 3 times a
> day is enough (I was amazed when he told me, ONCE??),

Im amazed too. In all my years of dog experience and research I have never
heard that. Pups need 3 small meals a day.

how can you
> critically think they are abusing it?

If the situation is as the writer said, then it is clearly abuse.
>
> Maybe he chains the puppy in the backyard is coz he also wants the dog to
be
> outdoor,

Chaining is abuse. As Anonymous Sender said it is banned in his state. It
is also banned where I live. If he takes on the commitment of having a dog
and wants it to be outdoor, then he should be responsible enough to provide
it adequate shelter, fencing, and an area large enough for the dog's
comfort.
>
> When I tried to train my puppy, I was scolded by my vet BADLY, saying I am
> too soft to my puppy, he said I have to be strict maybe have to be a bit
> cruel at the beginning,

Cruel? Are you serious? Is your vet serious? Again, I have never heard of
puppy training requiring cruelty -- firmness and love, yes. There is a HUGE
difference between firmness and cruelty.

>
> If you really think they are abusing the puppy, you should get them a
puppy
> trainer or someone with good puppy experience for a visit, to teach them
how
> to be a puppy owner and how to discipline the puppy properly. Who knows
> what you are doing now is actually just spoiling the puppy and making it
> even worse when it grows up?

I think 1) you need to get a new vet. And 2) Learn all about dogs and
training .And love for animals. You don't seem to have any idea.

To the original writer:

Sadly I agree with most of the others, in that that pup needs to leave that
owner, and the owner reported to the authorities. If it goes to a pound
there is a chance (small I know) that it could be adopted by a loving
owners. The life it's leading right now is cruel and unnatural. You have
indeed done a lot to help it, but it will only a band-aid. As for the
owner, why on earth would you want to remain friendly with him?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Anonymous Sender" <anonymous@remailer.metacolo.com> wrote in message
> news:3a4fe0809d7b67ba936ea4e06265d6cb@remailer.metacolo.com...
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I guess I'm posting this because I need some help thinking it through.
> > Please read this carefully before you reply. I really don't need any
> > lame answers.
> >
> > My neighbors bought a puppy, which they treat like a stick of
furniture.
> > They never walk it, play with it, or give it any attention. They do
> > feed it, but I've had to remind them to do it.
> >
> > I felt sorry for this adorable little puppy, whom everyone seems to
> > love as he is a real charmer. I feared that if I complained they
> > would simply drop the pet off at a shelter and it would be euthanized.
> >
> > So, I started walking the dog, playing with it, buying it toys, helping
> > to feed it. I haven't gotten a dog myself because my lifestyle is
> > unstable, both ecomically and physically. I didn't want to subject a
> > dog to this, or myself. Now I am emotionally attached to this dog and
> > he is really so loveable.
> >
> > The latest is that the landlord and others have been complaining about
> > the dog who barks at them and nips at their heels in a playful way.
> > He is not biting, but is a border collie and this is the way he tries to
> > get people to stop and pay attention to him.
> >
> > The landlord and others egress their ajoining property through our
> > back yard. The owner of the dog has been keeping the dog chained and I
> > have been lengthening the chain, feeling sorry for the dog in the 100
> > degree plus heat. There is shade, but not much room to run around.
> >
> > So, I have become the bad guy for letting the dog have a few more feet
> > to run around. It is illegal in our city to chain a dog outside.
> >
> > (anti-censor askldfjadkfjwe0raoerrjaksdjfklja;kdfjaksdjfkasdfjjkej
> > dajfkasdjfkdjfje9r9edanc adflkjaskdjf dkfjskdfj-edkfakfj sda flkjf
> > dlajkfe9-as=f=fsdafdlfjlkjfkl)
> >
> > In response to our landlords complaining and threats about the dog, I
> > finally wrote him a check for $50 to buy materials for a section of
fence
> > to complete a old fence that was partly taken out by him and partly
> > destroyed by another neighbors dog. I helped put in the fence which
> > a good day's work.
> >
> > Now I see that the dog no longer has to be chained, but really has not
> > much more room to run about than he had before, but at least he has no
> > chain to get caught on things. I am however worried that he will
> eventually
> > figure out a way to break out of the fencing.
> >
> > Now the owner of the dog, the one who ignores him and TWICE I caught him
> > abusing the dog by playing rough with it to the extent that it shrieked
> > in pain-he now is careful to watch out for me, since he knows I despise
> > this kind of treatment. If I video taped it, I could have him criminally
> > charged for animal abuse.
> >
> > Now the owner is pissed off at me for fencing our backyard for the dog.
> > I think it's because we didn't get his approval or he wants the backyard
> > to be open. He rarely, if ever uses it.
> >
> > I am really tired of all this. I don't want to see the dog given up
> > to some shelter, but it is starting to cause me real problems that I
> > don't need. Plus it is getting to be expensive.
> >
> > If anyone has any good ideas on how to deal with this situation, I'm
> > all ears. I would like to stay on good terms with this neighbor, but
> > it's getting difficult.
> >
>
>



CM
2003-07-17 23:21:06 EST
First I don't think the pet store and the vet has any experience less than
you do. AND it's just an advice basing on the cases they deal with
everyday, it's up to any of us to take that advice seriously. You think
it's fine and it's OK! It's your dog. Different people raise different dogs
differently, I didn't say you are wrong, so don't you say my vet is wrong.

One thing very obvious that that guy didn't tell the "truth" is, First he
said the owner never play with the dog, Second he said the owner was caught
playing with the dog roughly twice. I don't see how "roughly" he did (I'll
save it until the tape is shown), But that means he still Did play with the
dog, then why is he saying the owner Never play with the dog? It really
gives me a discount on how accurate the story is.







"seagull" <seagull@bonbon.net> wrote in message
news:bf7ir5$pbo$1@possum.melbpc.org.au...
>
> "CM" <marshmalNOSPAM@rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:sjlQa.32015$1aB1.19015@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> >
> > I don't know how old is that puppy, but my vet and the pet store where I
> > bought mine from, forbidden me to walk my puppy before 4 months old
> because
> > they said the puppy will catch fleas and other adult dogs' sickness.
>
> That 's nonsense. If the pup is properly vaccinated, it can and should
> start walks at around 9 weeks. This is essential for its socialisation. I
> can't believe a so-called professional would tell you that. As for fleas,
> pups are treated with anti-flea treatment.
>
> > rough with it twice? Did they not play with it or they just don't know
> how?
>
> From what I've read they just don't care.
>
> > As for feeding, the vet told me to feed a puppy once or twice or 3 times
a
> > day is enough (I was amazed when he told me, ONCE??),
>
> Im amazed too. In all my years of dog experience and research I have
never
> heard that. Pups need 3 small meals a day.
>
> how can you
> > critically think they are abusing it?
>
> If the situation is as the writer said, then it is clearly abuse.
> >
> > Maybe he chains the puppy in the backyard is coz he also wants the dog
to
> be
> > outdoor,
>
> Chaining is abuse. As Anonymous Sender said it is banned in his state.
It
> is also banned where I live. If he takes on the commitment of having a dog
> and wants it to be outdoor, then he should be responsible enough to
provide
> it adequate shelter, fencing, and an area large enough for the dog's
> comfort.
> >
> > When I tried to train my puppy, I was scolded by my vet BADLY, saying I
am
> > too soft to my puppy, he said I have to be strict maybe have to be a bit
> > cruel at the beginning,
>
> Cruel? Are you serious? Is your vet serious? Again, I have never heard
of
> puppy training requiring cruelty -- firmness and love, yes. There is a
HUGE
> difference between firmness and cruelty.
>
> >
> > If you really think they are abusing the puppy, you should get them a
> puppy
> > trainer or someone with good puppy experience for a visit, to teach them
> how
> > to be a puppy owner and how to discipline the puppy properly. Who knows
> > what you are doing now is actually just spoiling the puppy and making it
> > even worse when it grows up?
>
> I think 1) you need to get a new vet. And 2) Learn all about dogs and
> training .And love for animals. You don't seem to have any idea.
>
> To the original writer:
>
> Sadly I agree with most of the others, in that that pup needs to leave
that
> owner, and the owner reported to the authorities. If it goes to a pound
> there is a chance (small I know) that it could be adopted by a loving
> owners. The life it's leading right now is cruel and unnatural. You have
> indeed done a lot to help it, but it will only a band-aid. As for the
> owner, why on earth would you want to remain friendly with him?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Anonymous Sender" <anonymous@remailer.metacolo.com> wrote in message
> > news:3a4fe0809d7b67ba936ea4e06265d6cb@remailer.metacolo.com...
> >
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > I guess I'm posting this because I need some help thinking it through.
> > > Please read this carefully before you reply. I really don't need any
> > > lame answers.
> > >
> > > My neighbors bought a puppy, which they treat like a stick of
> furniture.
> > > They never walk it, play with it, or give it any attention. They do
> > > feed it, but I've had to remind them to do it.
> > >
> > > I felt sorry for this adorable little puppy, whom everyone seems to
> > > love as he is a real charmer. I feared that if I complained they
> > > would simply drop the pet off at a shelter and it would be euthanized.
> > >
> > > So, I started walking the dog, playing with it, buying it toys,
helping
> > > to feed it. I haven't gotten a dog myself because my lifestyle is
> > > unstable, both ecomically and physically. I didn't want to subject a
> > > dog to this, or myself. Now I am emotionally attached to this dog and
> > > he is really so loveable.
> > >
> > > The latest is that the landlord and others have been complaining about
> > > the dog who barks at them and nips at their heels in a playful way.
> > > He is not biting, but is a border collie and this is the way he tries
to
> > > get people to stop and pay attention to him.
> > >
> > > The landlord and others egress their ajoining property through our
> > > back yard. The owner of the dog has been keeping the dog chained and I
> > > have been lengthening the chain, feeling sorry for the dog in the 100
> > > degree plus heat. There is shade, but not much room to run around.
> > >
> > > So, I have become the bad guy for letting the dog have a few more feet
> > > to run around. It is illegal in our city to chain a dog outside.
> > >
> > > (anti-censor askldfjadkfjwe0raoerrjaksdjfklja;kdfjaksdjfkasdfjjkej
> > > dajfkasdjfkdjfje9r9edanc adflkjaskdjf dkfjskdfj-edkfakfj sda flkjf
> > > dlajkfe9-as=f=fsdafdlfjlkjfkl)
> > >
> > > In response to our landlords complaining and threats about the dog, I
> > > finally wrote him a check for $50 to buy materials for a section of
> fence
> > > to complete a old fence that was partly taken out by him and partly
> > > destroyed by another neighbors dog. I helped put in the fence which
> > > a good day's work.
> > >
> > > Now I see that the dog no longer has to be chained, but really has not
> > > much more room to run about than he had before, but at least he has no
> > > chain to get caught on things. I am however worried that he will
> > eventually
> > > figure out a way to break out of the fencing.
> > >
> > > Now the owner of the dog, the one who ignores him and TWICE I caught
him
> > > abusing the dog by playing rough with it to the extent that it
shrieked
> > > in pain-he now is careful to watch out for me, since he knows I
despise
> > > this kind of treatment. If I video taped it, I could have him
criminally
> > > charged for animal abuse.
> > >
> > > Now the owner is pissed off at me for fencing our backyard for the
dog.
> > > I think it's because we didn't get his approval or he wants the
backyard
> > > to be open. He rarely, if ever uses it.
> > >
> > > I am really tired of all this. I don't want to see the dog given up
> > > to some shelter, but it is starting to cause me real problems that I
> > > don't need. Plus it is getting to be expensive.
> > >
> > > If anyone has any good ideas on how to deal with this situation, I'm
> > > all ears. I would like to stay on good terms with this neighbor, but
> > > it's getting difficult.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


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