Dog Discussion: Ban Breeding Of Fighting Dogs

Ban Breeding Of Fighting Dogs
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Musky Killer
2003-12-06 11:06:29 EST
Breeding Tragedy
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

It's time for legislators to enact a ban on the breeding of fighting dogs.
It's not as a knee-jerk reaction to an awful attack, but as a long overdue,
well-considered piece of legislation designed to protect animals and the
public.

Recent events warrant this action. The much-publicized fatal mauling of San
Francisco resident Diane Whipple by a Presa Canario dog would seem to have
spurred a rash of similar crimes. In the week following Whipple's death, dog
attacks were reported across the country. On Long Island, for example, where
Ms. Whipple used to live, two incidents involved different pairs of pit
bulls who attacked other dogs; one of the pairs also chased two young boys.
In a third, a bull mastiff clamped his jaws onto a miniature poodle and
killed him.

Of course, dogs don't read newspapers, so what's really going on? The truth
is that trouble is brewing all the time, but we don't hear about it until
events take a tragic, and usually preventable, turn. Bane, the dog who
attacked Whipple, was a problem long before he killed. A little digging by
reporters revealed that residents of the apartment building where Bane, his
caretakers, and Whipple lived had called police at least 40 times to report
that the enormous dog was vicious. They were so fearful that they devised
walking schedules with Bane's caretakers to avoid confrontations.

Newsday reported that the pit bulls who chased the boys and then attacked
the Labrador retriever who heroically came to their defense were known up
and down the street to be dangerous. Neighbors even used a makeshift phone
tree to spread the word when the dogs escaped from their yard: Bring your
kids and dogs inside; Buddy and Casey are loose again.

Better enforcement of existing laws, which means holding human handlers
responsible for their dogs' actions before it's too late, would prevent many
of the attacks. Perhaps if San Francisco officials had taken those dozens of
calls seriously and Bane's caretakers had been forced to move the dog to a
more suitable home or even to euthanize him, Whipple would be alive today.

Law-enforcement officials, with the help of animal behaviorists, could
determine whether or not the dog's behavior could be modified. They could
mandate training-for both dogs and their people-and the elimination of
conditions, such as chaining, that elicit aggressive behavior. They could
also remove dangerous dogs from inappropriate or neglectful homes. For dogs
whose behavior cannot be changed and who face a lifetime in a cage to
prevent them from killing other dogs and attacking people, euthanasia is the
kindest alternative.

But the real solution lies in prevention. While dog-fighting is a federal
crime, breeding and raising fighting breeds is legal and can be undertaken
on a whim by anybody-even white supremacists serving life sentences in
prison, like Bane's "owner." Unfortunately for the dogs, as well as for the
people who happen to live near them, many breeders of pit bulls and other
powerful dogs are attracted to the macho image and even foster aggression in
their dogs, rather than working to socialize them.

Before they sink their teeth into a child's arm or rip the throat out of a
smaller dog, these dogs have become victims themselves. Anybody who has
worked in an animal shelter has seen the evidence: pit bulls and pit bulls
mixed with other, often aggressive, breeds-chows, Rottweilers, or
Mastiffs-dumped at the front door or quarantined for biting, with ripped
ears, scarred faces, and improperly healed broken legs. Chained in the
backyard, "toughened" by harsh words and little protection from the
elements, they suffer and live up to expectations.

Yes, we've all known so-called "vicious" breeds who were gentle companions.
I remember meeting a particularly charming pit bull at the San Jose,
California, animal shelter where I worked in 1987. She was a little
sweetheart who thumped her tail and crawled cautiously onto my lap. But she
had been chained in front of her human caretaker's marijuana plant, and when
a toddler wandered over from the house next door, the little pit took her
guard duty seriously and killed the child.

The response to that child's death spurred the same kind of frenzy that
we're seeing now-nationwide-news coverage, a rash of attack reports,
hysteria about big dogs, and talk of muzzling laws. But little was done. If
strict breeding laws had been enacted in 1987, fewer people and animals
would be suffering today.

We must prohibit the breeding of fighting dogs, for their own protection as
well as ours, and spay or neuter existing dogs. And given the appalling
number of homeless dogs destroyed every day in shelters across the country,
there should be a moratorium on all dog breeding. There are many wonderful
dogs, mixed and purebred, large and small, in need of good homes who have
never curled a lip at anybody. They die, while breeders of fighting dogs
continue to breed tragedy.




Link: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/3787/dogfight.htm



KrisHur
2003-12-07 07:38:34 EST
As soon as a dog is added to a "list" responsible owners/breeders of a breed
who's on the list are forced out leaving only specimens from bad breeding
programs who don't give a damn about the law.

Irresponsible people will keep their dogs and people who fight them are
surely not going to turn theirs in. NTM people will seek out breeds that are
not on the list.

If you want people to take their dog's behavior seriously, support that
*super* penalties be levied on the owner of the dog. Any dog that attacks,
not just the so-called "fighting breeds". If people were made really
responsible for their dogs behavior (*long jail sentences*, civil suits that
could cost them their house and life savings) people might take pause before
allowing an aggressive dog, of any breed, to get to the point where it
attacks.
--
Kristen and
Kali CDX, CGC, TDIA, TT
www.kristenandkali.com




"Musky Killer" <spkevans(NOSPAM]@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:98nAb.134738$ZmO.106303@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> Breeding Tragedy
>
> It's time for legislators to enact a ban on the breeding of fighting dogs.
> It's not as a knee-jerk reaction to an awful attack, but as a long
overdue,
> well-considered piece of legislation designed to protect animals and the
> public.
>
snip



Musky Killer
2003-12-07 08:22:34 EST
Places that Ban/Regulate Fighting Dogs. If you know of any others, please feel free to post them:

Australia:

http://www.dlgrd.wa.gov.au/pub/docs/Dog/Dog%20(Restricted%20Breeds)%20Regulations%202002.pdf

Germany:

http://www.angelfire.com/biz6/dogholocaust/legislation.html

Edmonton, AB, Canada

http://www.edmonton.ca/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_2_267_0_0_47/http://cmsserver/COEWeb/household/pets/restricted+dogs.htm

Italy

http://www.senato.it/bgt/ShowDoc.asp?leg=13&id=00006865&tipodoc=Ddlpres&modo=PRODUZIONE

Michigan, USA

http://www.co.oakland.mi.us/boc/assets/docs/minutes/min_00/101900.pdf

NJ, USA

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2002/Bills/A3000/2906_I1.HTM

Pontiac, Michigan, USA

http://www.dogwatch.net/alerts/michigan.html

Portugual

http://www.angelfire.com/biz6/dogholocaust/portugal.html

United Kingdom ( UK )

http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1991/Ukpga_19910065_en_1.htm

Others:

http://strawdogsbatosa1.homestead.com/countriesthatban.html

Kyler Laird
2003-12-07 10:19:38 EST
"Musky Killer" <spkevans(NOSPAM]@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:98nAb.134738$ZmO.106303@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> Breeding Tragedy
>
> It's time for legislators to enact a ban on the breeding of fighting dogs.

Shouldn't we go all the way and criminalize ownership of any dog of a
breed known to have killed a human?

It's about time something was done about those pesky Pomeranians.
http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/10/09/pomeranian.kills.ap/

> It's not as a knee-jerk reaction to an awful attack, but as a long
overdue,
> well-considered piece of legislation designed to protect animals and the
> public.

If it saves just one life...(at the expense of effort that could have
saved hundereds)

--kyler

L Alpert
2003-12-07 10:36:23 EST
Kyler Laird wrote:
> "Musky Killer" <spkevans(NOSPAM]@rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:98nAb.134738$ZmO.106303@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
>> Breeding Tragedy
>>
>> It's time for legislators to enact a ban on the breeding of fighting
>> dogs.
>
> Shouldn't we go all the way and criminalize ownership of any dog of a
> breed known to have killed a human?

Maybe we should also ban any model of car that has killed a human.

>
> It's about time something was done about those pesky Pomeranians.
> http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/10/09/pomeranian.kills.ap/
>
>> It's not as a knee-jerk reaction to an awful attack, but as a long
>> overdue, well-considered piece of legislation designed to protect
>> animals and the public.
>
> If it saves just one life...(at the expense of effort that could have
> saved hundereds)
>
> --kyler

I'm not 100% sure if you are using sarcasm here, but I have 3 dogs, one
being a full bred pit bull. It is probably the most docile dog I have ever
seen.

Any dog can be raised to be mean.



Musky Killer
2003-12-07 11:50:45 EST
Alan, it depends where you live, currently many countries or parts of
countries including Canada, Australia, Britain, Germany, USA amongst others
are now banning Staffordshire cross breeds.

If you live in the UK you are already under the "Dangerous Dogs Act 1991".

http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1991/Ukpga_19910065_en_1.htm

1.-(1) This section applies to-
(a) any dog of the type known as the pit bull terrier;
(b) any dog of the type known as the Japanese tosa; and
(c) any dog of any type designated for the purposes of this section by an
order of the Secretary of State, being a type appearing to him to be bred
for fighting or to have the characteristics of a type bred for that purpose.
I believe a Staffordshire cross would fall under 1(c) of the section above.
If you are in the UK the person who sold or gifted you the dog is also in
violation of the Act.

What country/city are you in Alan ?



"Alan D Bell" <alan@nitrosolutions.com> wrote in message
news:BBF8C30B.32174%alan@nitrosolutions.com...
>
>
> > Breeding Tragedy
>
> >Crap snipped
>
> So, let's get this straight, according to you my 10 months old AM Staff
> cross shouldn't exist? Is that correct? According to you he's
vicious...just
> because somewhere in his blood line there's a breed of dog that *you*
> consider to be vicious in their entirety. Talk about tarring every dog
with
> the same brush.
>
> You are nuts. Take your reactionary, unthinking crap and shut it as far up
> yourself as you can, because that's where it belongs.
>
> Oh, one last thing - cross post to this group like that again and we'll
see
> what you ISP has to say about spammers, got it?
>
> AL
>



A*@pitpuppy.org?
2003-12-07 12:20:22 EST
On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 16:50:45 GMT, "Musky Killer"
<spkevans(NOSPAM]@rogers.com> wrote:

>Alan, it depends where you live, currently many countries or parts of
>countries including Canada, Australia, Britain, Germany, USA amongst others
>are now banning Staffordshire cross breeds.
>
>If you live in the UK you are already under the "Dangerous Dogs Act 1991".
>
>http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1991/Ukpga_19910065_en_1.htm
>
>1.-(1) This section applies to-
> (a) any dog of the type known as the pit bull terrier;
> (b) any dog of the type known as the Japanese tosa; and
> (c) any dog of any type designated for the purposes of this section by an
>order of the Secretary of State, being a type appearing to him to be bred
>for fighting or to have the characteristics of a type bred for that purpose.
>I believe a Staffordshire cross would fall under 1(c) of the section above.
>If you are in the UK the person who sold or gifted you the dog is also in
>violation of the Act.
>
>What country/city are you in Alan ?
>
>
>
>"Alan D Bell" <alan@nitrosolutions.com> wrote in message
>news:BBF8C30B.32174%alan@nitrosolutions.com...
>>
>>
>> > Breeding Tragedy
>>
>> >Crap snipped
>>
>> So, let's get this straight, according to you my 10 months old AM Staff
>> cross shouldn't exist? Is that correct? According to you he's
>vicious...just
>> because somewhere in his blood line there's a breed of dog that *you*
>> consider to be vicious in their entirety. Talk about tarring every dog
>with
>> the same brush.
>>
>> You are nuts. Take your reactionary, unthinking crap and shut it as far up
>> yourself as you can, because that's where it belongs.
>>
>> Oh, one last thing - cross post to this group like that again and we'll
>see
>> what you ISP has to say about spammers, got it?
>>
>> AL
>>
>

--
Hug a Pitbull Today!

Email: Remove the ©

Priveye
2003-12-07 12:39:28 EST
Why don't we ban the breeding of people who make dogs vicious?

I've known many fighting dogs in my lifetime and many, if not all, were real
sweethearts out of the ring. They knew the difference and were well
behaved.
They loved kids and people. Dogmen, over the decades, would cull people
biters.
Nobody wants to handle a people biter in the pit. Just ask three finger
Louie!!

You are so off base with your argument that you are in a different stadium.

Roscoe

--
R. L. Lesnick
Gamma Investigative Research, Inc.
P.O. Box 10981, Fairfield, NJ 07004
Licensed NJ/NY GMT (Hrs Zulu) -5
(973) 227-1415 (800) 878-9393 Fax: (973) 882-0960
Domain: http://www.priveye.com http://www.priveye.net
E-Mail: / gamma@priveye.net / rll@priveye.net ICQ: 22651043
PGP key available at public key server or upon request

"Crisis occurs when women and cattle get excited"...James Thurber
"Musky Killer" <spkevans(NOSPAM]@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:98nAb.134738$ZmO.106303@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com...
> Breeding Tragedy
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----
>
> It's time for legislators to enact a ban on the breeding of fighting dogs.
> It's not as a knee-jerk reaction to an awful attack, but as a long
overdue,
> well-considered piece of legislation designed to protect animals and the
> public.
>
> Recent events warrant this action. The much-publicized fatal mauling of
San
> Francisco resident Diane Whipple by a Presa Canario dog would seem to have
> spurred a rash of similar crimes. In the week following Whipple's death,
dog
> attacks were reported across the country. On Long Island, for example,
where
> Ms. Whipple used to live, two incidents involved different pairs of pit
> bulls who attacked other dogs; one of the pairs also chased two young
boys.
> In a third, a bull mastiff clamped his jaws onto a miniature poodle and
> killed him.
>
> Of course, dogs don't read newspapers, so what's really going on? The
truth
> is that trouble is brewing all the time, but we don't hear about it until
> events take a tragic, and usually preventable, turn. Bane, the dog who
> attacked Whipple, was a problem long before he killed. A little digging by
> reporters revealed that residents of the apartment building where Bane,
his
> caretakers, and Whipple lived had called police at least 40 times to
report
> that the enormous dog was vicious. They were so fearful that they devised
> walking schedules with Bane's caretakers to avoid confrontations.
>
> Newsday reported that the pit bulls who chased the boys and then attacked
> the Labrador retriever who heroically came to their defense were known up
> and down the street to be dangerous. Neighbors even used a makeshift phone
> tree to spread the word when the dogs escaped from their yard: Bring your
> kids and dogs inside; Buddy and Casey are loose again.
>
> Better enforcement of existing laws, which means holding human handlers
> responsible for their dogs' actions before it's too late, would prevent
many
> of the attacks. Perhaps if San Francisco officials had taken those dozens
of
> calls seriously and Bane's caretakers had been forced to move the dog to a
> more suitable home or even to euthanize him, Whipple would be alive today.
>
> Law-enforcement officials, with the help of animal behaviorists, could
> determine whether or not the dog's behavior could be modified. They could
> mandate training-for both dogs and their people-and the elimination of
> conditions, such as chaining, that elicit aggressive behavior. They could
> also remove dangerous dogs from inappropriate or neglectful homes. For
dogs
> whose behavior cannot be changed and who face a lifetime in a cage to
> prevent them from killing other dogs and attacking people, euthanasia is
the
> kindest alternative.
>
> But the real solution lies in prevention. While dog-fighting is a federal
> crime, breeding and raising fighting breeds is legal and can be undertaken
> on a whim by anybody-even white supremacists serving life sentences in
> prison, like Bane's "owner." Unfortunately for the dogs, as well as for
the
> people who happen to live near them, many breeders of pit bulls and other
> powerful dogs are attracted to the macho image and even foster aggression
in
> their dogs, rather than working to socialize them.
>
> Before they sink their teeth into a child's arm or rip the throat out of a
> smaller dog, these dogs have become victims themselves. Anybody who has
> worked in an animal shelter has seen the evidence: pit bulls and pit bulls
> mixed with other, often aggressive, breeds-chows, Rottweilers, or
> Mastiffs-dumped at the front door or quarantined for biting, with ripped
> ears, scarred faces, and improperly healed broken legs. Chained in the
> backyard, "toughened" by harsh words and little protection from the
> elements, they suffer and live up to expectations.
>
> Yes, we've all known so-called "vicious" breeds who were gentle
companions.
> I remember meeting a particularly charming pit bull at the San Jose,
> California, animal shelter where I worked in 1987. She was a little
> sweetheart who thumped her tail and crawled cautiously onto my lap. But
she
> had been chained in front of her human caretaker's marijuana plant, and
when
> a toddler wandered over from the house next door, the little pit took her
> guard duty seriously and killed the child.
>
> The response to that child's death spurred the same kind of frenzy that
> we're seeing now-nationwide-news coverage, a rash of attack reports,
> hysteria about big dogs, and talk of muzzling laws. But little was done.
If
> strict breeding laws had been enacted in 1987, fewer people and animals
> would be suffering today.
>
> We must prohibit the breeding of fighting dogs, for their own protection
as
> well as ours, and spay or neuter existing dogs. And given the appalling
> number of homeless dogs destroyed every day in shelters across the
country,
> there should be a moratorium on all dog breeding. There are many wonderful
> dogs, mixed and purebred, large and small, in need of good homes who have
> never curled a lip at anybody. They die, while breeders of fighting dogs
> continue to breed tragedy.
>
>
>
>
> Link: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/3787/dogfight.htm
>
>



Michael A. Ball
2003-12-07 12:43:14 EST
On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 15:36:23 GMT, "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxcomcast.net> wrote:

>>[...]I have 3 dogs, one being a full bred pit bull. It is probably the most docile dog I have ever
>seen.
>
>Any dog can be raised to be mean.

Thanks for the refreshing bit of sanity. Your closing sentence says it all,
for me; it certainly is the truth.

I met a new Pittbull at the shelter yesterday, Charlie. He is so playful. He
is also very solid and strong. He has already been adopted, but I'm not sure
he is going to a good home. :-(

Another Pittbull at the shelter is a small, timid female. She is very
affectionate, but slow to play. She does give great hugs!

I have two black Chow Chows that frighten most people--until they realize that
these great balls of fur are friendly, and even enjoy attention--especially
Nightbear.

Personally, I'd much rather ban stupid, unqualified, disgusting and dangerous
pet owners, instead of any breed(s) of dog.

Michael
Whatever it takes.

L Alpert
2003-12-07 14:21:39 EST
Michael A. Ball wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 15:36:23 GMT, "L Alpert" <alpertl@xxcomcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>>> [...]I have 3 dogs, one being a full bred pit bull. It is probably
>>> the most docile dog I have ever seen.
>>
>> Any dog can be raised to be mean.
>
> Thanks for the refreshing bit of sanity. Your closing sentence says
> it all, for me; it certainly is the truth.
>
> I met a new Pittbull at the shelter yesterday, Charlie. He is so
> playful. He is also very solid and strong. He has already been
> adopted, but I'm not sure he is going to a good home. :-(

Unfortunately, the breed has a stigma attached to it. It seems that pit
bull attacks make headlines, other breeds only make the mid-news sections of
the papers.

One just needs to remember that these dogs are extremely powerful, and they
do not know their own strength, so they need to be taught.
Part of our training for our's is to teach him what we consider being
playful. He now will only chomp on inanimate objects such as pull ropes,
etc., and never gets carried away with people and the cats.

>
> Another Pittbull at the shelter is a small, timid female. She is very
> affectionate, but slow to play. She does give great hugs!
>
> I have two black Chow Chows that frighten most people--until they
> realize that these great balls of fur are friendly, and even enjoy
> attention--especially Nightbear.


I have a Chow/Newfie mix that most every one will initially back away from.
Jet black with huge gleaming white teeth and at about 95 lbs. Very good and
well tempered dog.

The pit and him play well together.

>
> Personally, I'd much rather ban stupid, unqualified, disgusting and
> dangerous pet owners, instead of any breed(s) of dog.
>

Exactly.....case in point are the Bull Mastifs in San Fran. WTF did these
owners do to the dogs, and how did they expect 1 person to control over 220#
of dogs that were not well behaved in the first place.

> Michael
> Whatever it takes.


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