Dog Discussion: Radio Fence?

Radio Fence?
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Chaz
2003-12-02 23:07:33 EST
Radio Fence?

I am considering getting a rat terrier. I live on 11 acres and dont have a
formal fenced yard. Are there any of the radio fence products that are worth
having? I would really appreciate any information available.

chaz-



KrisHur
2003-12-03 06:28:14 EST
It may work or may not. Dogs who are high prey drive, like a rat terrier,
will run right past their invisible fence when chasing something (chipmunk,
squirrel, etc.). Once past the IF line they can't get back in. For these
dogs I frequently hear people recommend a regular fence coupled with an
invisible fence, the fence (even a flimsy, short chicken wire fence) gives
them a visual reminder where to stop.

I also hear that the cheap ones you can get at Radio Shack and Home Depot
are not that good.
A few months back a woman posted a picture of her dog's neck that had been
severely burned by leaking batteries in a Radio Shack collar.
--
Kristen and
Kali CDX, CGC, TDIA, TT
www.kristenandkali.com




"chaz" <chaznsc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9kdzb.2118$Qd6.2094@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Radio Fence?
>
> I am considering getting a rat terrier. I live on 11 acres and dont have a
> formal fenced yard. Are there any of the radio fence products that are
worth
> having? I would really appreciate any information available.
>
> chaz-
>
>



The Puppy Wizard
2003-12-03 16:10:31 EST
HOWEDY Chaz,

"chaz" <chaznsc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9kdzb.2118$Qd6.2094@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> Radio Fence?

Here's liea's case history and EXXXPERIENCE with shock fences.
Her dog Cubbe nHOWE has a nerveHOWES OCD head shake for
which she's seen the vet:

"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshuler@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:McYnb.45145$ao4.106231@attbi_s51...
>
> After talking with the vet yesterday and watching Cubbe
> all day today, I'm convinced that the shaking is behavioral,
> not physical. Naturally I'll continue keeping an eye on her,
> but when I add everything up, I don't see symptoms of
> anything neurological-- and the vet agrees.
>
> --Lia

"I'd call the SHOCK fence effective and safe.
Humane is one of those hot words that people
can debate all day so I won't touch that one.
There are people who would call a regular chain
link fence inhumane," liea altshuller.

Here's Cubbe ATTACKING a neighbor's dog just
last week, and previHOWEsly attacking liea's only
friend and assaulting a couple kids and escaping
her surrHOWEND SHOCK SYSTEM, which MADE
HER AGGRESSIVE:

From: Julia Altshuler (jaltshuler@comcast.net)
Subject: Cubbe report: Chief
Date: 2003-09-12 21:04:11 PST

Chief if my neighbor Jo's 40# 1 1/2 year old Sheltie.
Jim has been running into them on his morning walks
with Cubbe. For a week he's been feeding me glowing
reports about how Cubbe is terrific with Chief.

Cubbe has never been particularly wonderful with any
other dog, so terrible in fact that I'd despaired at ever
seeing Cubbe frolic and play with other dogs.

I'd resigned myself to the idea that Cubbe is happy
with her people, her yard, her squirrels, her spot on
the couch, and that makes a pretty good life, one
that doesn't involve the companionship of her own
species. Jim's reports were encouraging.

Jim convinced Jo to bring Chief over for a playdate.
We put Cubbe on a leash so she could meet Chief
again on neutral territory. They sniffed as dogs
normally do.

Chief and Cubbe entered the front door. To my
amazement, all was fine. Out in the backyard
and off leash, Cubbe didn't pay much attention
to Chief, but there was no trouble even though
she and Chief were close to each other.

Both dogs seemed more interested that their
people were handing out treats (for good behaviors
like SITs).

Jim went into the house for some balls thinking the 2
dogs would like to chase them together. He did not
consult me about this hare brained scheme.

Jo and I were 5 feet away from the dogs when Cubbe
decided to attack Chief. She's not an experienced fighter
so I don't know if attack is the right word. She was snarfing,
making growly noises, jumping on Chief, had her mouth on
Chief's neck (on his back, behind his ears) and basically not
looking friendly, but I think if she'd wanted to do real damage,
she would have, and Chief was fine, nary a hair out of place.

Naturally with us all right there, we were able to intervene in
seconds.

A second later, it was all over. Cubbe looked like she'd
like to be friends again, but Chief, while not running away
or anything was obviously spooked and keeping his distance. Jo
and Chief went home. (I went with them for chat and
apologies, but that's not part of the Cubbe story.)

Cubbe has never food or toy guarded with people. Might
she have been guarding the balls Jim brought out? Or
was it the fact that we let our guard down for a few seconds
and she got scared of Chief when we all weren't practically
on top of her? Or did we push her too far by leaving her and
Chief together for too many minutes when a few seconds
would have been better for a first try? Or other theories?

Do we continue trying to find a dog that will put up with
Cubbe? Or do we give up again and go back to letting
Cubbe live a dogless existence?

--Lia

===================


"It Was Horrible! I Let Cubbe Out In The Backyard With
Her Usual ZAP Collar - The 10 Year Old Child Went To
Give Cubbe A Hug She Gave A Snarl-Snap Cubbe Got
Out In The Neighborhood Leashless From:

Julia F N Altshuler (d000634c@dc.seflin.org)
Subject: 1 step forward, 2 steps back
Date: 2001-01-07 19:28:05 PST

Cubbe got out in the neighborhood leashless for the first time
in roughly 2 years. The first few times were when we first got
her before she'd had any training and before we got the
electric fence to reinforce the physical one.

It was horrible. She paid us no attention, ignored clickers
and treats and calls. Make that, it was horrible for us. She
had a blast running free and chasing whatever she wanted. For
us it was 45 minutes of sheer terror as we tried to catch her.
Luckily there wasn't too much traffic yesterday morning. It
had snowed, and the streets weren't quite clear yet. Jim
finally caught her when she was preoccupied with her head down a
hole.

For 2 years I've been giving her a daily long walk in the
neighborhood. She now walks pretty nicely on a leash. She gets
daily indoor clicker training sessions. She has perfect
recalls in the house. She gets intermittent treats for those
recalls. She gets plenty of time to run free in the backyard.
Her recalls are less reliable there, but I've been working on
them. I haven't been as good about introducing the variable
reinforcement there, but I have been good about making sure
that she's never tricked into coming into the house when she'd
rather be outside. I always call her, give her a treat or
praise and let her go again.

So I haven't been a perfect dog trainer, but I don't think I'm
a terrible one. I say that because I'm about to ask y'all for
some help in correcting my mistakes, and while I don't mind
criticism for past mistakes, I am hoping you'll concentrate on
what I should do now.

Yesterday morning Cubbe had had some nice backyard time. I'd
gotten her into the house and was preparing to leave when she
escaped straight through the front door and right in front of
our noses. She was still wearing the zap collar, but the
battery was low. She gave a small yip when she went over the
wire, and the chase ensued.

We were careful not to scold her once she was caught.

Today I let her out in the backyard with her usual zap collar
now with a fresh battery. She was waiting by the backdoor to
come in when I went to call her. From her excited behavior, I
could tell that she fully expected to be let out the front
door again so she could have another fun romp in the
neighborhood. I'm so filled with anxiety from yesterday's
escapade that I keep checking for her every time I open the
door.

Later in the afternoon, she was much worse
about coming when called even from the backyard.

My specific questions:

How do I teach recalls when she so clearly knows
when she's in a confined space and when she isn't?

She normally only wears the zap collar when she's in the
backyard because the wire goes around the house and could zap her
when she's near certain windows inside. If I let her get
zapped at the front door with the zap collar, can I still take
the zap collar off and walk her out the front door with her
leash on? I don't want her to become afraid of the front door.

What's the best emergency procedure if, god forbid, it should
happen again?

Might Cubbe be ready for harsher training techniques? By this
I mean, I've been using clicker and treats for Cubbe because
she so obviously freaked when we used leash corrections and
scoldings when we first got her.

I know this is a hard subject to bring up without starting the
whole cruelty thread again so I'll state my opinion once and
won't defend it further: any method can be cruel for some
dogs.

Even the slightest punishment was wrong for Cubbe at the
beginning, but we've come a long way since then. She trusts
us now as I mentioned in a recent post. Point is, she's been
rewarded for coming, but she's never been punished, even in
the mildest way, for not coming.

Is it time for that?

What might I look for to tell?

Last night we had friends over for dinner with their 3
daughters ages 14, 10 and 7. The girls loved Cubbe and were
having a blast clicker training her. I was impressed with how
quickly they caught on and how little correction they needed
to be consistent with the clicks and treats. Cubbe was fine
with the children; she always has been. Just as they were
getting ready to go, the 10 year old went to give Cubbe a hug.
Cubbe must have felt threatened and confined because she gave a
snarl-snap.

I was right there, and without thinking I quickly yelled,
turned Cubbe over on her back, got in the face and let her
know that no snarling is allowed. The girl wasn't frightened
at all, and her parents who were also right there hadn't
realized what had happened. I then asked the snarlee to rub
Cubbe's belly further to reinforce that Cubbe is the
submissive one in that relationship. I let Cubbe up and all
was fine.

I suppose that's another issue, but I bring it up as part of
wondering if Cubbe should be trained with punishments now.
Like I said, I did that without thinking, and now I think it
was the right thing to do. So how do I apply this to dealing
with Cubbe the escapee?

--Lia

===================

"Julia Altshuler" <jaltshuler@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:3DC4A3BD.645A4FC9@attbi.com...

> I need help deciding if I have a real problem with Cubbe
> that needs immediate attention or if I'm imagining trouble
> where there is none.
>
> Here's what happened last April the way I described it to
> a friend at the time:
>
> I'm worried about Cubbe. Or rather, I'm kicking myself for
> doing something stupid. Ellie has been over many times and
> has always gotten along great with Cubbe. Cubbe is always
> at the door when I let Ellie in.
>
> She's barky-protective but then stops barking once Ellie is
> inside. She's never shown any real aggression. The other
> night Ellie and I went out together to run an errand.
>
> Ellie was coming in the house with packages so I came in
> first and put Cubbe in the bedroom with Jim so Ellie could
> get through the door more easily. I could hear Cubbe
> barking. Once Ellie was inside, I opened the bedroom door
> for Cubbe. She ran out to attack the intruder. Ellie was
> trying to be friendly.
>
> Ellie put a tooth in Ellie's finger. Granted the resulting
> scratch was no worse than the way my cuticles bleed when
> they get dry and I don't rub lotion into them every night,
> but Ellie was understandably scared.
>
> Jim ran out and got control of Cubbe right away. I got
> Ellie some alcohol and a bandage. The scary thing is that,
> even though the damage is minor, it does qualify as a bite
> since Cubbe did mean to do it. I guess I should just learn
> from it and never let Cubbe greet someone like that again,
> but I'm horribly torn up.
>
> I've said that I would never keep an aggressive dog. Now
> the whole issue is so complicated. Cubbe is great even
> with kids when we meet them in the neighborhood.
>
> Since then I've been careful not to do anything like that.
>
> Then Halloween night Cubbe spent most of the night in the
> computer room with Jim while I answered the door. She did
> bark each time she heard the doorbell ring. We did nothing
> to discourage that. We want her to be barky protective so
> it made sense for her to bark when she heard people in the
> neighborhood, especially at night. Later in the evening,
> Jim put Cubbe on a leash and was hanging out with her in the
> front hall while I still got the door. One of the first
> people to come to the door once she was out of the computer
> room was our neighbor Nicky.
>
> I think Nicky is 11 now. He's known Cubbe since we got her
> 4 years ago, has always liked her, petted her and asked to
> come on walks. Nick lifted his mask on the porch so I'd
> know who it was. Then I invited him into the hall to pet
> Cubbe.
>
> Cubbe snarled and sort of air snapped at him. Of course
> Jim was right there so no damage was done. Nick didn't
> even have to draw his hand away, and he didn't get scared.
> Nothing scares that boy.
>
> I don't like this. Twice now Cubbe has been overly
> protective-aggressive when people have entered the house.
> Both times they've been people she knows and should like.
> She's wonderfully nice to people on walks. We don't have
> guests over too often so I can't comment if it's a growing
> thing or not.
>
> Comments please. Is this a major growing aggression
> problem?
>
> I'd guess it's territoriality about the house and yard.
> What do I do about it?
>
> I usually put Cubbe on a leash when friends come over
> and then walk her outside while the friend gets out of
> her car, and then we walk in together.
>
> She'll still bark when they're in the house and then
> calm down. Is that a good idea? Should I be
> doing something more to make sure this doesn't escalate?
> --Lia



The Puppy Wizard
2003-12-03 16:32:36 EST
HOWEDY krisHURT,

"KrisHur" <kris_brock@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:vsri6b18kmnt4e@corp.supernews.com...
>
> It may work or may not.

You mean, you can never tell if you'll GET LUCKY
an be able to train a dog?

> Dogs who are high prey drive, like a rat terrier,
> will run right past their invisible fence when chasing
> something (chipmunk, squirrel, etc.).

Yeah. That's cause HURTIN dogs to train them DOESN'T
WORK unless you can HURT THEM ENOUGH to make
not doin sumpthin worthwhile. Like EATIN POISON, for
EXXXAMPLE. That's HOWE COME your "leave it" command
NEVER WORKS, cause you gotta BE THERE to HURT
and INTIMIDATE the dog to stop IT from EATIN POISON
or runnin HOWET on you.

> Once past the IF line they can't get back in.

Pssst! Dogs that ESCAPE don't WANT to get back in...

> For these dogs I frequently hear people recommend a regular
> fence coupled with an invisible fence, the fence (even a flimsy,
> short chicken wire fence) gives them a visual reminder where to
stop.

That's on accHOWENT of you don't know HOWE to train a dog.

> I also hear that the cheap ones you can get at Radio Shack and
> Home Depot are not that good.

That so? You don't think they HURT enough?

> A few months back a woman posted a picture of her dog's neck
> that had been severely burned by leaking batteries in a Radio
> Shack collar.

You can't blame the BURN on a cheap collar cause here's
a EXXXPENSIVE WON that set a other dog on fire:


>From the Dayton Daily News: 05.05.2001]
Lawsuit on dog's behalf could set legal precedent

Electrified collar burned family pet

By Cathy Mong
Dayton Daily News

VANDALIA | A civil lawsuit filed by a Vandalia family on behalf of
its
injured dog could set legal precedent in Ohio, says Dayton
attorney
Paul R. Leonard, an avowed animal lover who wants the state to
toughen
its penalties for abuse of pets.

Leonard, former Dayton mayor and state legislator in the 1970s,
said
the case of Boomer, a 4-year-old rambunctious golden retriever
burned
by an electrified collar, is the first to be filed by his newly
formed
Center for Animal Law and Advocacy.

The lawsuit, brought by Andrew and Alyce Pacher and their
children,
Andrew III, and Sarah, against Invisible Fence of Dayton, is set
for a
pretrial conference May 17 in Montgomery County Common Pleas
Court.

Leonard, who has studied animal law the past 18 months through
Lewis
and Clark College in Portland, Ore., is incorporating his center
as a
nonprofit organization. He said he hopes Boomer's case can put
some
bite into what he describes as antiquated criminal laws regarding
animal cruelty.

Scott G. Oxley, the lawyer for the Centerville fence company, has
filed
a motion to dismiss three of the five counts in the lawsuit
because he
said that, under Ohio law, companion animals are considered
personal
property.

"This (lawsuit) was filed by Boomer, that's how I read it," Oxley
said. "It's my opinion that it's clear dogs cannot sue under Ohio
law.
I would be surprised if a court would extend to this dog an
ability to
file a lawsuit."

Leonard said Oxley is correct, but he's going to court because the
legislature has not toughened criminal laws. Leonard said his
center's
focus is to use the civil courts to collect damages when animals
have
been intentionally harmed or suffered from someone's negligence.

"If judges aren't going to penalize them criminally, we'll go
after
pocketbooks," Leonard said.

Leonard said "Animal-friendly" legislation gets "little or no
serious
consideration" by lawmakers, "but I think the movement is getting
stronger. People are treating animals more like family and less
like
property. I think the votes are there."

Although 27 states recognize forms of inhumane and cruel treatment
of
animals as felonies, Ohio does not. Only Tennessee limits awards
in
civil lawsuits - $4,000 - based on emotional distress and loss of
companionship of a pet.

Ohio House Bill 108, introduced last year to increase penalties
for
people who are abusive or cruel to companion animals, died in
committee, said Kevin Usilton, executive director of the Humane
Society of Greater Dayton. Ohio's existing animal welfare laws
have
remained virtually unchanged for 125 years and are among the
country's
worst, he said.

The Pachers' lawsuit claims the fence company's negligence caused
Boomer to suffer psychological damage and physical injuries.

The Pachers purchased Invisible Fence of Dayton's "Top Dog
Package,"
which cost $1,527.80 and advertised "praise-based training" in its
"classic conditioning techniques with radio technology." An
electrical
wire is buried in the yard and the dog wears a special collar that
shocks the dog with electricity if it goes beyond the fence.

Boomer repeatedly escaped the Pachers' back yard after the fence
was
installed so the company's "pet consultant" told the Pachers that
Boomer needed sandbags attached to his collar to slow him down so
he'd
get a "greater correction " - a more prolonged zap of electricity
transmitted through a metal-pronged collar, according to court
papers.

After a month, the Pachers asked for another consultation, and
this
time a second collar - providing a total of six metal prongs - was
placed by the company representative snugly around Boomer's neck,
and
the amount of electricity was increased, the lawsuit states.

According to the Pachers' veterinarian, Boomer received
second-degree burns on his neck.

Usilton said the voltage appears to be a "brutal amount of
(electrical) charge to cause that kind of pain and injury," and
said
Boomer's owners should bear some responsibility for the injuries.

Nevertheless, Usilton said the case might "bring to light the
stupid,
antiquated laws" governing companion animals in Ohio.

> Kristen


BARK! ZAP! SCREAM...ZAP ...SCREAM...ZAP... SCREAM...
ZAP... SCREAM...ZAP...SCREAM...ZAP ...SCREAM

"Susan Fraser" <chinchuba@aol.comdog> wrote in message
news:20020208201202.29997.00000402@mb-md.aol.com...

> >Did you try it on your throat? Not very pleasant.
>
> Umm, yes. As a matter of fact, I did. It the sensation is
actually much
> milder than it is on the palm, which has sweat glands and so
conducts
> more.

You're full of crap.

"JC" <JC@nowhere.org> wrote in message
news:cUr17.3891$bs2.550009@news20.bellglobal.com...
>
> A friend of mine told this story about his experience with a
> shock-collar:
>
> Jim's sister-in-law had a shock collar she wanted to use on her
> dog stop it from barking. Not being very technical, she brought
it
> over for Jim to assemble and adjust. Jim got it all put together
and
> decided to try it on himself to see which setting would be most
> appropriate.
>
> With the collar around his neck, set on minimum, Jim tried a
little
> bark... woof.
>
> Nothing.... Woof Woof. Nothing.... Bark. Nothing.... Bark Bark.
Nothing...
> BARK! ZAP! The collar worked! Unfortunately, the zap was painful
enough to
> make Jim scream with pain, which the collar interpreted as
another bark,
> which lead to another ZAP!
>
> Which made Jim scream again... ZAP...SCREAM...ZAP...SCREAM...
> Eventually, Jim got the collar off but it never survived the
> chance to end up on the dog.
>
> (Names have been changed to protect the stupid)
> : )




Penny Howland
2003-12-05 17:14:58 EST
don't know about the radio fence collar but I have Invisible Fence...wiring
is the cheap part...most expensive part for me was two collars. It works
great, but does get cut alot by edgers and repairs on lawn sprinklers. But
mine stay in the yard anyway due to the original training and if I walk one
of their collars near the beep...they remember the "shock" vibration. I
held both in my hands (by accident) and walked over the wire so I got what
each dog gets and it was not painful but it got my attention. Three dogs
have been hit around my court and it is a residential (15mph!) area.



The Puppy Wizard
2003-12-05 20:19:58 EST
HOWEDY penny,

"Penny Howland" <phowland@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Cr7Ab.16000$b01.288018@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> don't know about the radio fence collar but I have Invisible
Fence...

Well, ainn't that sumpthin to be prHOWED of.

> wiring is the cheap part...

Yeah. It's cost a few dogs here abHOWETS their lives.

> most expensive part for me was two collars.

Ask granville. Cost her dog's life.

> It works great,

Worked great for Misty, too.

> but does get cut alot by edgers and repairs on lawn sprinklers.

Perhaps that's on accHOWENT of you're too lazy
or too stupid to bury the wire pupperly?

> But mine stay in the yard anyway due to

Bein AFRAID. Every time they go HOWET, they're under duress.

> the original training

You mean, when they first got hurt.

> and if I walk one of their collars near the beep...
> they remember the "shock" vibration.

You mean, it SCARES them.

> I held both in my hands (by accident) and walked over
> the wire so I got what each dog gets and it was not
> painful but it got my attention.

Oh? Did you have it on your throat?

> Three dogs have been hit around my court

Oh? Well by all means go ahead and HURT your
dogs to keep them safe, seein as you ain't got the
intellect to train your dogs.

> and it is a residential (15mph!) area.

IMAGINE? You wouldn't think THAT would
be any MOORE dangerHOWES than shockin
your dog, would you, dog lover?

"misty" <Momisty@webtv.net wrote in message
news: 16990-3CAB1F8C-1@storefull-2293.public.lawson.webtv.net...

I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do
know she's not here with us. I really can't blame
anyone here for her loss.

I'm the one who ignored your advice. I did it because
of how you write/wrote. I was unwilling to accept the
idea that my using a shock collar could have any
bearing on Peach not wanting to stay home.

Up until I started using it my main concern had been
keeping my dogs in their own yard.

Once I started using the e-fence... well, then my
concern became how to keep them from running
off for days on end.

I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled
in the anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades.

I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world
now <g> A Wits End Trained dog, one who is completely
housetrained, doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the yard,
and doesn't bark all the time.

IOW a great companion and friend.

Thanks Jerry!

=====================

misty" <Momisty@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6946-3B6337A1-329@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net...

We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring.
Two dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no collars.

Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not
want to come back in the yard and would run for
days. The last time, Peach didn't come back home.

I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how
to train my dog. She is now border trained. A few
minutes each day reinforces her desire to stay in
the yard. She no longer runs out into the road, I
can stop her from chasing cats and she no longer
cringes when we walk around the yard.

I can not say loud or long enough how much I
hate the e-fence and its collars. If you can't get
a regular fence then you need to train your dog.

I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep
my dog in our yard again.

The price was too high:-(

~misty

--------------------------------



Bones
2003-12-05 23:56:47 EST
I recommend going with the invisible fence brand. it's more expensive, but
it comes with a life time guarantee, the Collar batteries last longer and
the collar is pretty much indestructible. Also, they guarantee containment.
If it's not working right, then call up the rep in your area and he comes
around and works with you to fix the problem. no other manufacturer has
this as part of their guarantee.

I just got the indoor "invisible fence" I use it to safeguard an area in
our house. in my case it's the front door. I live on a busy street and I
have a small dog (7lb Pomeranian) she a little yap box. My children often
leave the front door open and she would escape and chase all the German
shepherds and Dobermans in area. They installed a small 6"x6"x1"
transmitter by my front door and it creates a "bubble" that is 7 feet in
diameter around the transmitter that the dog can not cross. it took me
about 2 days and as many "shocks" to train her that she can't go near the
front door. I was absolutely amazed. It uses the same collar as the out
door fence so you can use them indoor and out door products together. and
again...LIFETIME ONSITE GUARANTEE.

They will even service you if you bought one used of ebay or something.


"chaz" <chaznsc@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9kdzb.2118$Qd6.2094@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> Radio Fence?
>
> I am considering getting a rat terrier. I live on 11 acres and dont have a
> formal fenced yard. Are there any of the radio fence products that are
worth
> having? I would really appreciate any information available.
>
> chaz-
>
>



Penny Howland
2003-12-06 18:01:40 EST
good for you...whatever works!
"The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWizard@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:29aAb.980$7p2.570@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> HOWEDY penny,
>
> "Penny Howland" <phowland@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:Cr7Ab.16000$b01.288018@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> >
> > don't know about the radio fence collar but I have Invisible
> Fence...
>
> Well, ainn't that sumpthin to be prHOWED of.
>
> > wiring is the cheap part...
>
> Yeah. It's cost a few dogs here abHOWETS their lives.
>
> > most expensive part for me was two collars.
>
> Ask granville. Cost her dog's life.
>
> > It works great,
>
> Worked great for Misty, too.
>
> > but does get cut alot by edgers and repairs on lawn sprinklers.
>
> Perhaps that's on accHOWENT of you're too lazy
> or too stupid to bury the wire pupperly?
>
> > But mine stay in the yard anyway due to
>
> Bein AFRAID. Every time they go HOWET, they're under duress.
>
> > the original training
>
> You mean, when they first got hurt.
>
> > and if I walk one of their collars near the beep...
> > they remember the "shock" vibration.
>
> You mean, it SCARES them.
>
> > I held both in my hands (by accident) and walked over
> > the wire so I got what each dog gets and it was not
> > painful but it got my attention.
>
> Oh? Did you have it on your throat?
>
> > Three dogs have been hit around my court
>
> Oh? Well by all means go ahead and HURT your
> dogs to keep them safe, seein as you ain't got the
> intellect to train your dogs.
>
> > and it is a residential (15mph!) area.
>
> IMAGINE? You wouldn't think THAT would
> be any MOORE dangerHOWES than shockin
> your dog, would you, dog lover?
>
> "misty" <Momisty@webtv.net wrote in message
> news: 16990-3CAB1F8C-1@storefull-2293.public.lawson.webtv.net...
>
> I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do
> know she's not here with us. I really can't blame
> anyone here for her loss.
>
> I'm the one who ignored your advice. I did it because
> of how you write/wrote. I was unwilling to accept the
> idea that my using a shock collar could have any
> bearing on Peach not wanting to stay home.
>
> Up until I started using it my main concern had been
> keeping my dogs in their own yard.
>
> Once I started using the e-fence... well, then my
> concern became how to keep them from running
> off for days on end.
>
> I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled
> in the anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades.
>
> I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world
> now <g> A Wits End Trained dog, one who is completely
> housetrained, doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the yard,
> and doesn't bark all the time.
>
> IOW a great companion and friend.
>
> Thanks Jerry!
>
> =====================
>
> misty" <Momisty@webtv.net> wrote in message
> news:6946-3B6337A1-329@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
>
> We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring.
> Two dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no collars.
>
> Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not
> want to come back in the yard and would run for
> days. The last time, Peach didn't come back home.
>
> I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how
> to train my dog. She is now border trained. A few
> minutes each day reinforces her desire to stay in
> the yard. She no longer runs out into the road, I
> can stop her from chasing cats and she no longer
> cringes when we walk around the yard.
>
> I can not say loud or long enough how much I
> hate the e-fence and its collars. If you can't get
> a regular fence then you need to train your dog.
>
> I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep
> my dog in our yard again.
>
> The price was too high:-(
>
> ~misty
>
> --------------------------------
>
>
>



The Puppy Wizard
2003-12-06 23:12:19 EST
You can't post here abHOWETS noMOORE.

"Penny Howland" <phowland@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:odtAb.31182$%h4.21989@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> good for you...whatever works!
> "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWizard@earthlink.net> wrote in
message
> news:29aAb.980$7p2.570@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> > HOWEDY penny,
> >
> > "Penny Howland" <phowland@tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
> > news:Cr7Ab.16000$b01.288018@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> > >
> > > don't know about the radio fence collar but I have Invisible
> > Fence...
> >
> > Well, ainn't that sumpthin to be prHOWED of.
> >
> > > wiring is the cheap part...
> >
> > Yeah. It's cost a few dogs here abHOWETS their lives.
> >
> > > most expensive part for me was two collars.
> >
> > Ask granville. Cost her dog's life.
> >
> > > It works great,
> >
> > Worked great for Misty, too.
> >
> > > but does get cut alot by edgers and repairs on lawn
sprinklers.
> >
> > Perhaps that's on accHOWENT of you're too lazy
> > or too stupid to bury the wire pupperly?
> >
> > > But mine stay in the yard anyway due to
> >
> > Bein AFRAID. Every time they go HOWET, they're under duress.
> >
> > > the original training
> >
> > You mean, when they first got hurt.
> >
> > > and if I walk one of their collars near the beep...
> > > they remember the "shock" vibration.
> >
> > You mean, it SCARES them.
> >
> > > I held both in my hands (by accident) and walked over
> > > the wire so I got what each dog gets and it was not
> > > painful but it got my attention.
> >
> > Oh? Did you have it on your throat?
> >
> > > Three dogs have been hit around my court
> >
> > Oh? Well by all means go ahead and HURT your
> > dogs to keep them safe, seein as you ain't got the
> > intellect to train your dogs.
> >
> > > and it is a residential (15mph!) area.
> >
> > IMAGINE? You wouldn't think THAT would
> > be any MOORE dangerHOWES than shockin
> > your dog, would you, dog lover?
> >
> > "misty" <Momisty@webtv.net wrote in message
> > news:
16990-3CAB1F8C-1@storefull-2293.public.lawson.webtv.net...
> >
> > I don't now whether Peach is dead or alive. I do
> > know she's not here with us. I really can't blame
> > anyone here for her loss.
> >
> > I'm the one who ignored your advice. I did it because
> > of how you write/wrote. I was unwilling to accept the
> > idea that my using a shock collar could have any
> > bearing on Peach not wanting to stay home.
> >
> > Up until I started using it my main concern had been
> > keeping my dogs in their own yard.
> >
> > Once I started using the e-fence... well, then my
> > concern became how to keep them from running
> > off for days on end.
> >
> > I lost valuable training time becoming embroiled
> > in the anti-shock debate and the "Jerry sux" tirades.
> >
> > I lost one dog but I have the bestest dog in the world
> > now <g> A Wits End Trained dog, one who is completely
> > housetrained, doesn't chew up stuff, stays in the yard,
> > and doesn't bark all the time.
> >
> > IOW a great companion and friend.
> >
> > Thanks Jerry!
> >
> > =====================
> >
> > misty" <Momisty@webtv.net> wrote in message
> > news:6946-3B6337A1-329@storefull-233.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> >
> > We just installed a PetSafe brand fence this Spring.
> > Two dogs, two collars We now have one dog and no collars.
> >
> > Peach and Zelda would run thru the fence, not
> > want to come back in the yard and would run for
> > days. The last time, Peach didn't come back home.
> >
> > I used the Wit's End Training Manual to learn how
> > to train my dog. She is now border trained. A few
> > minutes each day reinforces her desire to stay in
> > the yard. She no longer runs out into the road, I
> > can stop her from chasing cats and she no longer
> > cringes when we walk around the yard.
> >
> > I can not say loud or long enough how much I
> > hate the e-fence and its collars. If you can't get
> > a regular fence then you need to train your dog.
> >
> > I will never rely on an electronic collar to keep
> > my dog in our yard again.
> >
> > The price was too high:-(
> >
> > ~misty
> >
> > --------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
>
>


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